| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:01 |
Emerald2 |
I will try to find somebody who knows about the translations. |
| 00:01 |
Sveta |
don't worry about sleep too much, i don't mind waiting around for several days |
| 00:02 |
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| 00:02 |
Sveta |
i also couldn't figure this out https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2815&p=38602 , would be handy to know - have a friend who wants this feature but there is not enough explanation in this post |
| 00:05 |
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| 00:05 |
josiah_wi_ |
It did have another error. |
| 00:06 |
josiah_wi_ |
In member function ‘bool ModMetadata::load(const string&)’: error: ‘CharReaderBuilder’ is not a member of ‘Json’ Json::CharReaderBuilder builder; |
| 00:36 |
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| 01:33 |
josiah_wi_ |
I am using Debian 8 on this machine, but the forum only said that Debian 7 and back wouldn't work. |
| 01:48 |
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| 08:39 |
Emerald2 |
We had somebody earlier asking about translations. |
| 08:40 |
Emerald2 |
Inventory items was the thing mentioned, but possibly are other translation issues too. (for anyone who wakes up and has some answers about that) |
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| 09:42 |
Soni |
what's a graphic-token language? |
| 09:53 |
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| 12:31 |
jluc |
faire un éditorial par rubrique, c'est aussi faire des choix et hiérarchiser l'info |
| 12:32 |
jluc |
c'est d'ailleurs ça qui est recherché |
| 12:33 |
jluc |
pas choisir ça améne à des articles comme celui introductif aux outils ecommerce |
| 12:33 |
jluc |
je me sers pas de ces outils donc je sais pas trop leurs états |
| 12:34 |
jluc |
mais comme ça j'aurais tendance à croire |
| 12:34 |
jluc |
qu'à part la suite autour de bank et tout ce qui va avec, les autres bougent pas et sont pas recommandés |
| 12:35 |
jluc |
enfin, qu'il faudrait pas les recommander |
| 12:36 |
jluc |
sans être certain non plus... |
| 12:36 |
jluc |
OUps wrong chen |
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| 18:33 |
patrik |
hi |
| 18:33 |
rubenwardy |
o/ |
| 18:41 |
Emerald2 |
Hey rubenwardy |
| 18:41 |
rubenwardy |
\o |
| 18:42 |
Emerald2 |
Sveta there has some questions about translation, perhaps you can help? |
| 19:00 |
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| 19:08 |
MinetestBot |
[git] pauloue -> minetest/minetest_game: Dye: Remove type="shapeless" from single-item recipes ad6c2cf https://git.io/fh91F (2019-02-06T19:07:48Z) |
| 19:13 |
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| 19:16 |
rubenwardy |
Emerald2: can't help with that, sorry |
| 19:16 |
Emerald2 |
Aww. I was hoping you'd know something about that. |
| 19:17 |
rubenwardy |
ohhh, by I do they mean inventory? |
| 19:17 |
rubenwardy |
the best way to contribute now is to work out how it actually works |
| 19:17 |
Emerald2 |
Inventory was mentioned but there may be other concerns as well. |
| 19:18 |
rubenwardy |
I don't know how it works, so I can't write a chapter on doing it |
| 19:18 |
rubenwardy |
it's the sort of thing that everyone needs to do |
| 19:18 |
rubenwardy |
look at Android for example |
| 19:18 |
Soni |
what's a graphic-token language? |
| 19:18 |
rubenwardy |
it's harder to hard code text in a specific language than it is to make it translatable |
| 19:18 |
rubenwardy |
so most things are translatable |
| 19:18 |
rubenwardy |
Soni: I have no idea, google it |
| 19:19 |
Emerald2 |
<Sveta> hello :) it does not look like the list of items (available from 'i') is internationalized, is it? how do i participate? |
| 19:19 |
Emerald2 |
<Emerald2> Hi Sveta. Are you talking about translation, or something else? |
| 19:19 |
Emerald2 |
<Sveta> yes, about translation |
| 19:19 |
Soni |
Xiong: what's a graphic-token language? |
| 19:19 |
Emerald2 |
^Persons actual words for clarification. :) |
| 19:19 |
rubenwardy |
hmm |
| 19:34 |
Soni |
how does someone dump a term like that on here and then never comes back :< |
| 19:40 |
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| 19:41 |
VanessaE |
Soni: Scratch. |
| 19:41 |
VanessaE |
https://www.makeblock.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/scratch1.png |
| 19:41 |
VanessaE |
I'd call that a graphical token language |
| 19:41 |
rubenwardy |
is that 1.0? |
| 19:41 |
VanessaE |
idk, just googled. |
| 19:41 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 19:41 |
Soni |
I thought APL was a graphical-token language? |
| 19:42 |
Soni |
idk I asked about nonverbal programming languages |
| 19:42 |
Soni |
I've no idea |
| 19:42 |
VanessaE |
there's no such thing as far as I Know |
| 19:43 |
VanessaE |
I wouldn't even put APL in that category |
| 19:43 |
VanessaE |
as its just using common mathematical symbols instead of spelling things out. |
| 19:44 |
Soni |
I believe there is such thing |
| 19:44 |
Soni |
or could be if I wrote it |
| 19:44 |
Soni |
but if I'm asking for a non-verbal programming language there's probably a reason for it xD |
| 19:45 |
Soni |
:( |
| 19:45 |
VanessaE |
don't. |
| 19:45 |
Soni |
don't what? |
| 19:46 |
VanessaE |
don't bother creating such a thing. there are plenty of languages already, ranging from any-idiot-can-learn to 30-year-veteran-will-struggle. it's not worth the effort. |
| 19:47 |
Soni |
seriously I'm only able to talk right now because I drank a bunch of coffee earlier today |
| 19:47 |
VanessaE |
when I was growing up, we had BASIC, and every kid with a C64, Apple, Atari, could program. |
| 19:47 |
VanessaE |
today, there's Lua at least, idk what else is that easy |
| 19:47 |
Soni |
python's actually easier than lua :p |
| 19:48 |
VanessaE |
depends on your metal organization. |
| 19:48 |
VanessaE |
mental* |
| 19:48 |
VanessaE |
I can do Lua, but not Python. |
| 19:48 |
VanessaE |
but then don't ask me to program in C/C++ |
| 19:48 |
Soni |
(I gave up on it because HTML, but also given what I was doing lua would definitely have been harder) |
| 19:48 |
VanessaE |
(I can muddle my way through simple stuff, but not anything truly useful) |
| 19:48 |
rubenwardy |
Lua is simpler, but Python is used a lot more in education and has more support |
| 19:49 |
Soni |
python's pretty good for processing HTML forms |
| 19:49 |
Soni |
(UA-side, not server-side) |
| 19:49 |
VanessaE |
you mean some library is :P |
| 19:49 |
Soni |
no |
| 19:49 |
rubenwardy |
I'd like see Python use with Minetest, simply for the educational aspect |
| 19:49 |
Soni |
I mean it has good libs for parsing the HTML tree |
| 19:49 |
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| 19:49 |
rubenwardy |
like, in the MT ecosystem |
| 19:49 |
Soni |
but beyond that, you're on your own |
| 19:50 |
Soni |
I managed to get as far as extracting the forms and associated form elements out of the tree |
| 19:50 |
Soni |
then I kinda gave up on it |
| 19:50 |
Soni |
and it "only" took me 3 days to do that |
| 19:50 |
Soni |
I don't wanna think about how long that'd take me in lua but it'd be a lot longer |
| 19:51 |
Soni |
still hate python's syntax |
| 19:51 |
Soni |
but it was the best tool for the job |
| 19:52 |
Soni |
huh, guake can split terminals now |
| 19:53 |
Soni |
this would've been useful to know yesterday |
| 19:55 |
Soni |
but anyway |
| 19:55 |
Soni |
VanessaE: there are plenty of "verbal" languages around |
| 19:56 |
Soni |
I don't really know of any practical "non-verbal" language tho |
| 19:56 |
VanessaE |
just. don't reinvent the wheel. find a language that does the job. maybe write a library that others can benefit from. |
| 19:56 |
Soni |
I know plenty of "non-verbal" languages but none of them are what I'd call "practical" |
| 19:56 |
VanessaE |
you want non-verbal, there's brainfuck and whitespace |
| 19:57 |
VanessaE |
there's nothing more non-verbal than those two. |
| 19:57 |
Soni |
(and yes, I do enjoy using them very much, but because they're not exactly practical it ends up making them less-than-useful) |
| 19:58 |
Soni |
VanessaE: both of those are APL-like in a way |
| 19:58 |
Soni |
and scratch is a little too... verbal. it relies heavily on words as it's mostly designed as a learning tool. |
| 19:59 |
VanessaE |
exactly my point. don't give the drooling morons out there an "in". coding should be left to people who are willing to *learn* |
| 20:02 |
Soni |
<VanessaE> [...] coding should be left to people who are willing to *learn* |
| 20:02 |
Soni |
so you're saying I'm not? |
| 20:02 |
Soni |
you're saying NVPLs are easy? |
| 20:02 |
Soni |
you're saying you're an ableist? |
| 20:03 |
Soni |
okay I shouldn't be so hard on you, sorry |
| 20:03 |
VanessaE |
no. |
| 20:04 |
Soni |
a quick story: so I drank coffee today, right? well, I'm kinda touching phpBB 2 a little. and I can't really deal with php all that well, but the coffee helps. |
| 20:04 |
VanessaE |
I'm saying if you were to make such a programming environment, you're enabling others to get in without learning. |
| 20:04 |
VanessaE |
there are enough idiots out there in normal population, we don't need 'em in the coding world, too. |
| 20:05 |
Soni |
however, coffee comes with a few side effects: it makes me wanna poop, it makes me unable to sleep, and it makes me constantly hungry which is generally distracting when working with php |
| 20:05 |
VanessaE |
tl;dr if I could learn BASIC at 11 years old, as did so many of my peers, then clearly a graphical-token language is NOT needed. |
| 20:05 |
Soni |
(altho I'm getting through it, slowly) |
| 20:06 |
Soni |
VanessaE: if someone in a wheelchair can drag themselves and the wheelcahir up a flight of stairs, then clearly a ramp is NOT needed? |
| 20:07 |
VanessaE |
not the same thing. |
| 20:07 |
Soni |
yes, it is. |
| 20:07 |
VanessaE |
bullshti. |
| 20:07 |
VanessaE |
bullshit. |
| 20:07 |
VanessaE |
enabling stupidity is not the same thing as helping get around a disability |
| 20:07 |
Soni |
if someone can walk, then they don't need a wheelchair? |
| 20:08 |
Soni |
what if walking is painful for them? |
| 20:08 |
VanessaE |
in fact, they do not - if they can walk more than a certain distance without too much pain or risk of falling (I think the legal cutoff is 20 feet) |
| 20:08 |
Soni |
so they shouldn't be allowed a wheelchair? |
| 20:08 |
VanessaE |
but that's still not the same thing. |
| 20:09 |
VanessaE |
generally, stupidity is not inherent. it's the result of bad parenting and lack of good schooling. |
| 20:09 |
VanessaE |
a disability is not the same thing |
| 20:09 |
VanessaE |
I should know. |
| 20:09 |
VanessaE |
I am disabled. |
| 20:10 |
VanessaE |
as was my husband for 15 odd years until he died. |
| 20:10 |
Soni |
so how come you can be so damn ableist?! |
| 20:10 |
* VanessaE |
growls. |
| 20:11 |
VanessaE |
because I remember some of the legal requirements I had to deal with during my disability hearing and later when *I* was in a wheelchair. |
| 20:11 |
Soni |
are developmental disabilities not in your vocabulary? |
| 20:11 |
VanessaE |
I eventually got out of said chair, pain and fall risk be damned. |
| 20:11 |
VanessaE |
no one but you is trying to shoehorn disability into a discussion about coding. |
| 20:11 |
VanessaE |
so just fucking stop it. |
| 20:12 |
Soni |
because *it is a discussion about accessibility in coding* |
| 20:12 |
VanessaE |
NO |
| 20:12 |
Soni |
it has *always* been one |
| 20:12 |
Soni |
at least for me |
| 20:12 |
VanessaE |
this is NOT accessibility. |
| 20:12 |
Soni |
it's what this has always been about |
| 20:12 |
Soni |
it's what I've been fighting for for like 5 years now wait what |
| 20:13 |
Soni |
NVM IT'S BEEN ALMOST 7 YEARS |
| 20:13 |
VanessaE |
if you're too dumb to learn Lua or something, you're too dumb to be a coder, period -- and 95% chance you're that dumb because you had bad parenting, lack of schooling, and are today unwilling to put in the hours to learn. |
| 20:13 |
Soni |
VanessaE: you're a classist ableist |
| 20:14 |
VanessaE |
I knew a guy years ago who was so disabled he could only type with an implement attached to his head. nice guy though, smart enough to be a coder if his apparatus could allow it. |
| 20:14 |
Soni |
https://github.com/SoniEx2/Stuff/tree/master/lua |
| 20:15 |
VanessaE |
(I don't know whatever became of him, this was almost 30 years ago) |
| 20:15 |
rubenwardy |
VanessaE: that's gate keeping |
| 20:15 |
VanessaE |
if you can't figure that print("foo") will display the word "foo" somewhere, and are unwilling to learn what it means, you should not be coding. |
| 20:16 |
VanessaE |
rubenwardy: it's about being willing to *learn* |
| 20:16 |
Soni |
oh and you're an elitist |
| 20:16 |
VanessaE |
"gatekeeping" would imply not even allowing access to learning materials. |
| 20:16 |
VanessaE |
fuck off, Soni . |
| 20:16 |
Soni |
am I wrong? |
| 20:16 |
rubenwardy |
I learned programming using scratch |
| 20:16 |
VanessaE |
dead wrong. |
| 20:16 |
rubenwardy |
Scratch, visual basic, and blitz basic |
| 20:16 |
rubenwardy |
But mostly scratch |
| 20:16 |
VanessaE |
rubenwardy: those are all still very much word-base languages |
| 20:17 |
VanessaE |
based* |
| 20:17 |
Soni |
I learned programming by reverse engineering and ripping off C++ (or was it C#) programs into javascript |
| 20:17 |
rubenwardy |
I thought this conversation was against scratch? |
| 20:17 |
VanessaE |
rubenwardy: no. |
| 20:17 |
Soni |
it literally doesn't matter |
| 20:18 |
VanessaE |
rubenwardy: it's against the concept of a graphical, purely symbolic language of some kind that would require little intelligence and time spent learning even the basics of program flow. |
| 20:18 |
Soni |
(btw: no, I wouldn't recommend it. unless you have a *lot* of time on your hands and are good with math and logic) |
| 20:19 |
VanessaE |
rubenwardy: as in something like APL taken to its logical extreme, think all emoji to describe a series of events. |
| 20:19 |
Soni |
VanessaE: I think the word you're looking for is "AI" or "ML" |
| 20:19 |
Soni |
not "graphical bash environment" |
| 20:19 |
VanessaE |
no, it is not. |
| 20:20 |
VanessaE |
you ask for a graphical, symbolic language, a page full of emoji is what comes to mind. |
| 20:20 |
Soni |
I don't care what you think you know but I can assure you, you don't know |
| 20:20 |
VanessaE |
and you do? |
| 20:20 |
Soni |
yes |
| 20:20 |
fwhcat |
Soni, hahaha |
| 20:21 |
Soni |
and I didn't ask for a graphical, symbolic language |
| 20:21 |
VanessaE |
[02-06 14:18] <Soni> what's a graphic-token language? |
| 20:21 |
Soni |
ask Xiong |
| 20:21 |
Soni |
I didn't *ask for* a graphic-token language |
| 20:22 |
Soni |
I asked what the hell was Xiong saying |
| 20:22 |
Soni |
or whoever it was |
| 20:22 |
fwhcat |
graphical symbolic language doesn't exist. Because behind any graphic you will see on screen, there is code, and there is a very high probability that the symbols will match words or expressions even if you don't see it. |
| 20:22 |
Soni |
really, you've just proven yourself to be ableist, classist, and elitist, and you can't read |
| 20:23 |
VanessaE |
ok, so he did. the point is the same -- such a thing probably does not exist and sure as fuck never should, because it would encourage the drooling idiot who CAN learn but doesn't WANT to, to get into "programming", if you can call it that. If you think code quality these days is shit, imagine how much worse it can gety. |
| 20:23 |
VanessaE |
-y |
| 20:23 |
VanessaE |
ok, I've had enough |
| 20:24 |
|
Soni was kicked by VanessaE: take your insults somewhere else |
| 20:24 |
sfan5 |
from the point where SoniEX joined a few days ago I was wondering why people were feeding the troll |
| 20:24 |
VanessaE |
sfan5: he's been here off and on for years/. |
| 20:25 |
VanessaE |
only just recently showed back up. |
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Fusl |
tfw `Sun, 14 Jan 2018` was the last time i was in here. hello everyone |
| 21:57 |
entuland |
welcome back Fusl |
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| 23:51 |
nri |
hi |
| 23:52 |
Emerald2 |
Hi nri. |
| 23:54 |
nri |
hey |
| 23:54 |
nri |
What server you play on? |
| 23:55 |
Emerald2 |
It has varied over the years. I haven't been playing survival servers recently (and I don't usually do creative). |
| 23:55 |
Emerald2 |
So aside from making puzzle boxes on 'inside the box', I haven't been playing that much minetest. |
| 23:55 |
Emerald2 |
Well also the server I *was* playing on went down. |
| 23:55 |
nri |
oh ok |
| 23:57 |
Emerald2 |
Were you wanting some server recommendations? |
| 23:58 |
nri |
no i play Redcat |
| 23:58 |
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| 23:59 |
Emerald2 |
I've never been to Redcat, I don't think. |
| 23:59 |
nri |
i just wanted to see what the irc was |
| 23:59 |
nri |
What do you do on the irc? |
