Time Nick Message 00:27 Wuzzy hi 00:30 rubenwardy o/ 00:30 rubenwardy congrats on the SAM win 00:57 VanessaE Public Service Announcement: all of my servers are now running 5.0.0 :) 01:01 Emerald2 Ooh yeah grats Wuzzy. :) 01:01 Emerald2 And congrats to you too, rubenwardy. 01:01 Wuzzy VanessaE: 5.0.0-rc1* 01:02 VanessaE Wuzzy: actually, straight from git master branch sources since I don't need to worry about running an exact release anymore./ 01:02 Wuzzy 5.0.0-dev then. :P 01:02 Wuzzy scnr 01:03 Wuzzy hmmm, cant remember i ever played on any of your servers. hmmm :& 01:03 Emerald2 CTF is pretty sweet. (haven't played Mineclone 2 so can't comment on that) 01:03 VanessaE if you haven't, shame on you :P 01:03 Wuzzy to be fair, i rarely play on any server 01:04 Wuzzy except ITB maybe. and JT2 01:04 Emerald2 ITB <3 01:34 entuland The error that players get when trying to connect with a pre-5 version is though pretty cryptic - "Protocol version mismatch - server enforces protocol version 37, we support protocol versions between 25 and 32" 01:35 entuland that error can surely be improved there :) 01:37 entuland besides --- where was it that I should get the latest v5 ? I have an old version and I don't recall where the download page is 01:38 entuland was it on gitlab? 01:38 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=22078 01:39 VanessaE or https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=3837 (Linux) or https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=17439 (Windows) 01:39 entuland thanks VanessaE 01:40 VanessaE yw 01:42 est31 I've seen 5.0.0 rc 1 01:42 est31 very nice that you took the time to build 5.0.0 01:42 sofar Lol 01:43 est31 am I wrong? 01:43 sofar You are est31 :) 01:43 est31 indeed :) 01:44 sofar Still pedantic, love it 01:46 est31 what's that supposed to mean 01:49 est31 5.0 is a big release for minetest 01:49 est31 I spent so much time with it, of course I'm excited 01:49 est31 even though I don't play minetest itself any more 01:52 Soni hm. minetest wouldn't happen to be AGPLv3 by any chance, would it? 01:53 DoyleChris need a little help 01:53 DoyleChris i redid my raspberry pi and moved my minetest server folder now i get this 01:54 DoyleChris ./minetestserver: error while loading shared libraries: libhiredis.so.0.13: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory 02:05 sofar Est31: just my lame way of appreciating your presence 02:07 VanessaE Soni: LGPL + CC-By-SAa 02:07 VanessaE -a 02:07 Soni :( 02:07 Soni that's kinda awful 02:07 VanessaE why? 02:08 Soni well, with AGPLv3, servers would be required to publish their scripts 02:08 Soni which would make minetest a more awesome experience 02:08 VanessaE doesn't apply. 02:08 VanessaE servers don't distribute code to clients. 02:08 est31 Soni: don't worry my ways are lamer 02:08 est31 err 02:08 est31 sofar: ^ 02:09 est31 see, I cant even get nicks right 02:09 VanessaE est31: tab complete FAIL :) 02:09 est31 xD 02:10 Soni VanessaE: I said publish their scripts not send them to the clients 02:10 Soni AGPLv3 is designed for SaaS 02:10 sofar Agpl doest require scripts to be sent to the client 02:10 VanessaE Soni: still doesn't apply - *GPL only governs distribution. 02:10 Soni in other words if you have some scripts running on the server, you're required to publish them, even if they never reach the client otherwise 02:11 Soni I make everything I make AGPL so google can't use it on their computers 02:11 VanessaE also, fuck SaaS. 02:12 sofar Eh? MT multiplayer is saas 02:12 VanessaE nah 02:12 VanessaE I don't see it like that 02:12 Soni https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html 02:12 VanessaE so me SaaS implies a paid subscription to something. 02:12 VanessaE to me* 02:13 sofar Maybe, but agpl and saas are orthogonal 02:13 VanessaE (something that by all rights should have been doable without money or "the cloud" being involved) 02:14 Soni anyway I want minetest to force server owners to share their code, and the AGPL does that 02:14 VanessaE "if you run a modified program on a server and let other users communicate with it there, your server must also allow them to download the source code corresponding to the modified version running there" note the key word, "modified" 02:15 Soni yes, modified 02:15 sofar Note, communicate 02:15 Soni so if they're just running a plain minetest with a few unmodified mods, they can probably get away with not publishing source 02:15 VanessaE that would thus not apply to original work, or to unmodified code. 02:15 Soni but if they make an awesome script, they'd have to publish their awesome script, because it's modifying minetest or something 02:15 Soni idk how it works 02:15 VanessaE wrong. 02:16 sofar You can make mods agpl 02:16 sofar Soni is correct 02:16 sofar Broad intepreted 02:16 Soni well, I think I said all I had to say :/ 02:16 Soni googles opinion is "don't touch AGPL because it's antiproprietary" 02:17 VanessaE he's correct only from the standpoint of downloading a mod, tweaking it, and then using it on the server. 02:17 Soni I'm a they 02:17 Soni meh 02:17 VanessaE whatever :P 02:17 Soni VanessaE: you have ops just ban me if you don't like me :/ 02:17 Soni assuming I'm not ban evading or something 02:18 Soni I haven't checked 02:18 Soni w/e 02:18 sofar Your point is good 02:18 VanessaE ban? nah. in any case, GNU and FSF are not infallible, and you're full of shit a lot of the time. :) 02:18 Soni I'm not full of shit, I'm just misunderstood 02:18 sofar Everyone is full of shit. That's why we use the restrooms daily 02:18 VanessaE hash 02:18 VanessaE haha 02:19 Soni (as my recent experiences in #matrix told me... I recommend avoiding that place btw) 02:26 Soni anyway, https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html 02:28 Soni I'd even argue "why affero gpl: okay so here's the deal google has explicitly said AGPL is straight-up banned on their property. you're not allowed to have AGPL anywhere, be it on your own flash drive, on your own phone, printed on a piece of paper, and absolutely not on any of their computers." 02:28 Soni honestly if that's not a reason to use AGPL then idk what is 11:56 IhrFussel Soni, I completely disagree... if I would have to share all my server code with others then I would quickly lose motivation to try to provide a unique experience for my players, cause others could set up a server with the exact same features any second 11:59 rubenwardy IhrFussel: CTF is entirely public code, with no other property, yet it hasn't been successfully cloned 11:59 rubenwardy other servers have builds and such 11:59 rubenwardy people stay there because of the community and because of the continued development 12:00 IhrFussel rubenwardy, CTF is by itself basically 'just' a game pack 12:00 rubenwardy but anyway, at least if you keep it to yourself, less servers would have vulnerabilities 12:00 rubenwardy wait, who said that? 12:02 rubenwardy there's also a compromise here - you can share bug fixes and improvements without giving away the complete experience 12:02 IhrFussel Well not only you work on the mods but quite a few others help you managing the repo ... If I wanted to offer my gameplay as general game then I would surely publish all its code and accept issues/PRs etc ... but I only code it for myself 12:03 rubenwardy that's one benefit of making the game public 12:03 rubenwardy I only develop CTF to use on my server 12:03 rubenwardy I don't develop it for singleplayer or for other servers 12:03 IhrFussel But you made it so that it can easily be used as 'modpack' 12:04 IhrFussel Or game rather 12:04 IhrFussel Since I didn't have such a thing in mind my code is all over the place 12:04 rubenwardy there's two components to CTF - the base modpack which essentially adds factions and such, and the game which adds actual CTF 12:05 rubenwardy the former was written to be used in a game like Persistent Kingdoms 12:05 rubenwardy although I don't recommend its use anymore 12:05 rubenwardy it's pretty gross 12:05 IhrFussel Lots of mods depend on custom other mods... 'stock' unmodified mods depend on my own custom mods... I added my own API features to other mods... it is kinda mess but it works 12:05 rubenwardy lol 12:10 IhrFussel I have to use 'bridge' mods cause 2 mods can't depend on each other 12:10 IhrFussel It would simplify lots of stuff on my server 12:16 Soni IhrFussel: data wouldn't be covered 12:23 IhrFussel Not sure what context you mean now... 'code wouldn't be hidden then' or 'certain things wouldn't apply to that license'? 12:36 Soni data: images, configs, etc don't need to be AGPLv3 12:36 Soni (unless your configs are lua files etc) 12:56 IhrFussel 'mods' are lua scripts of course 12:57 Soni yes 12:57 Soni you'd have to publish mods, but not their configs or images 13:03 IhrFussel The mods are the heart of my server's uniqueness 13:03 IhrFussel Like I said if a server doesn't care about being something special in the list then it can publish its code 13:04 IhrFussel Or...if all the mods are basically just stock ones and unmodified...and no custom mods were added 13:05 Soni you can keep the mods' art and your configs proprietary 13:14 IhrFussel I heavily modified some bigger mods...and I also changed some code in lots of them so I would've to publish the changes I made which destroys the uniqueness of my server 13:16 IhrFussel I pay for my server, I put much effort and time into coding features... I don't think it's fair to expect that I also make all my code available for others 13:17 IhrFussel But there are many people who think differently...which is why they don't (only) have a server but also create(d) mods and games for the community to share 13:17 IhrFussel To each their own 13:19 Soni you can keep the art and configs proprietary 13:19 IhrFussel Features are mainly coded in lua 13:20 Soni what you're saying is "I don't have any art, because art is useless" 13:20 Soni art is not useless. art makes a lot of difference 13:21 Soni (unless you're OpenTTD) 13:21 rubenwardy OpenTTD with 32bit texture <3 13:21 IhrFussel My server has a MMO-esque theme and therefore I changed lots of code in mods to behave like a MMO ... but it is no standalone code ... I never plan to publish it so I don't care about readability, usability, compatibility etc... as long as my code works for me personally I'm happy 13:23 Soni so you made an MMO with no art of your own? 13:23 IhrFussel The engine is responsible for making sure server owners cannot use some kind of exploits/security holes to inject malicious code into clients IMO 13:24 Soni no code would be injected into clients 13:24 IhrFussel I didn't really change textures or models... I only edited the lua code to fit my gameplay 13:24 Soni and you can inject malicious code into clients using libpng 13:39 Wuzzy Soni: Are you claiming you found a 0day in Minetest? :O 13:49 Soni not really 13:49 Soni libpng has a bunch of known exploits tho 14:05 IhrFussel Another question: Imagine someone publishes code as MIT license for example...but then later suddenly decides to restrict it more... do the old users still have a valid MIT license? Or does the new license autmatically apply to ALL? 14:07 IhrFussel If it applies to all it could be harmful to lots of projects ... for example if a project uses the code for commercial purposes but suddenly the new license forbids that ... can the code creator just control that? 14:09 sfan5 if you at some point download a piece of software licensed under MIT, the exact piece you downloaded will remain under MIT for all eternity 14:09 sfan5 even if the author decides to change the license for some future version 14:09 IhrFussel Okay so the license is 100% tied to the version you got 14:11 IhrFussel sofar, does this apply to all licenses? Or just MIT/similar? 14:11 sfan5 non-revokability is a clause that most FOSS licenses have 14:12 IhrFussel I guess if someone uses a 'custom' license they could potentially include something like "if the license changes in the future it applies to all versions up until this point" 14:12 sfan5 yes 14:14 IhrFussel btw I'm no 'closed-source forever and always' guy ... I shared some of my code here and in the forum already ... code where I thought it might be useful to most other servers and the code license was always MIT 14:15 Calinou it's not really a "clause", just an aspect of all FSF/OSI-approved licenses out there 14:15 Calinou (most licenses won't write it explicitly) 14:15 IhrFussel Just in case some people think now that I'm against OSS or am too arrogant/egoistic to share code 14:40 Calinou it's a feeling I get among a lot of server owners 14:53 entuland hey rubenwardy sorry for disturbing - yesterday I downloaded the mod app of yours and got a java ssl handshake error - it wasn't able to get the list of available mods, the interface remained pretty much empty 14:53 entuland was it just my bad connection? 14:55 rubenwardy no, it's a weird but that I can't reproduce 14:55 rubenwardy *bug 14:55 entuland okay 14:55 entuland if there is any way I can help you troubleshoot let me know - not sure if you're loggins something I could eventually extract and send you from the app 14:56 entuland logging* 18:10 JDCodeIt I have a question about the node groups and tool groupcaps... if the tool does not have the same groupcaps of the node it is trying to dig - nothing should happen? 18:12 JDCodeIt I'm wondering how the gemintinum drill from xtraores is able to drill nodes where there is no match of groups and groupcaps. Is there an overriding attribute in this tool? 18:50 luizrpgluiz Hi 18:51 JDCodeIt Just messing around with it - groupcaps with the following makes the tool able to break anything: weryhard = {times={[3]=0.50, [2]=1.00, [1]=1.50, [0]=2.00}, uses=350, maxlevel=3}, 18:52 JDCodeIt notice to [0]=2.00 - without this, the tool acts normally 18:52 JDCodeIt Is [0] entry valid? 19:12 MinetestBot 02[git] 04random-geek -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix cloud color in loading screen and main menu (#8174) 13fc566e2 https://git.io/fhShf (152019-02-04T19:11:02Z) 19:16 ceda why is protonmail blocked on minetest forums? 19:16 rubenwardy lots of spam and abuse using that email provider 19:17 ceda hmm fair enough 19:19 rubenwardy I'm unsure if we can bypass that 19:19 rubenwardy sfan5, any idea? 19:19 ceda i created using my domain for now so it isn't an issue for me right now :) 19:19 sfan5 we can just remove the ban 19:24 ceda does a minetest-telegram bridge (using a mod and a flask server) count as a mod or a minetest-related project? 19:38 sfan5 yes 19:47 yusf[m] https://github.com/CERN/CTW 19:47 yusf[m] CERN doing Minetest?! 19:50 sfan5 !title 19:50 MinetestBot sfan5: GitHub - CERN/CTW: Craft The Web - learn how the web was made 19:51 rubenwardy oh wow 19:51 rubenwardy is that legit? 19:56 sfan5 cool 19:59 luizrpgluiz good work 20:00 paramat wow 20:01 luizrpgluiz when will it be the official release of version 5.0 for Linux? 20:01 rubenwardy when it is ready 20:02 rubenwardy according to this they use a self-hosted gitlab: http://information-technology.web.cern.ch/services/git-service 20:02 luizrpgluiz but version 5.0 would not launch this month in the three days ago 20:04 luizrpgluiz on the forum said that it would be officially released on February 2 or 3 20:05 luizrpgluiz Has something happened to hear the delay again? 20:08 fwhcat it was an estimated date of release, and for the release-candidate, it's not the final 5.0 20:08 paramat no, on the forum nerz said it would be released if the blockers were cleared, and i said probably a good idea to add a week of testing after that 20:09 paramat or something like that 20:09 paramat i did warn against specifying a date ;) 20:19 luizrpgluiz good :) 20:20 luizrpgluiz I was worried because it was not appearing on the launchpad for me to do the update here on Xubuntu 18.10 21:18 scr267a Does the function minetest.auth_table still exist in minetest 5.0.0? 21:49 paramat search latest lua_api.txt? 22:00 sfan5 !api 22:00 MinetestBot Someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt 22:00 sfan5 scr267: minetest.auth_table is not a function and no it no longer exist 22:02 kaeza Is there a replacement? 22:03 kaeza Xban2 uses it in the GUI (to list players). 22:08 scr267 sfan5: oki doke. thanks 22:08 sfan5 kaeza: yes, the auth handler now provides an iterator 22:18 kaeza sfan5: Thanks, will look at it. 22:25 * kaeza grumbles at FastHub downloading the JSON data instead of the actual file. 22:32 jluc lol « Added crafts to cook papers from ideas by burning references. » 22:51 paramat 'Minetest - As used by CERN' 8)