| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:19 |
|
Cornelia joined #minetest |
| 00:22 |
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Wuzzy joined #minetest |
| 00:24 |
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entuland joined #minetest |
| 00:27 |
Wuzzy |
hi |
| 00:30 |
rubenwardy |
o/ |
| 00:30 |
rubenwardy |
congrats on the SAM win |
| 00:34 |
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| 00:37 |
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| 00:57 |
VanessaE |
Public Service Announcement: all of my servers are now running 5.0.0 :) |
| 01:01 |
Emerald2 |
Ooh yeah grats Wuzzy. :) |
| 01:01 |
Emerald2 |
And congrats to you too, rubenwardy. |
| 01:01 |
Wuzzy |
VanessaE: 5.0.0-rc1* |
| 01:02 |
VanessaE |
Wuzzy: actually, straight from git master branch sources since I don't need to worry about running an exact release anymore./ |
| 01:02 |
Wuzzy |
5.0.0-dev then. :P |
| 01:02 |
Wuzzy |
scnr |
| 01:03 |
Wuzzy |
hmmm, cant remember i ever played on any of your servers. hmmm :& |
| 01:03 |
Emerald2 |
CTF is pretty sweet. (haven't played Mineclone 2 so can't comment on that) |
| 01:03 |
VanessaE |
if you haven't, shame on you :P |
| 01:03 |
Wuzzy |
to be fair, i rarely play on any server |
| 01:04 |
Wuzzy |
except ITB maybe. and JT2 |
| 01:04 |
Emerald2 |
ITB <3 |
| 01:34 |
entuland |
The error that players get when trying to connect with a pre-5 version is though pretty cryptic - "Protocol version mismatch - server enforces protocol version 37, we support protocol versions between 25 and 32" |
| 01:35 |
entuland |
that error can surely be improved there :) |
| 01:37 |
entuland |
besides --- where was it that I should get the latest v5 ? I have an old version and I don't recall where the download page is |
| 01:38 |
entuland |
was it on gitlab? |
| 01:38 |
VanessaE |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=22078 |
| 01:39 |
VanessaE |
or https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=3837 (Linux) or https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=17439 (Windows) |
| 01:39 |
entuland |
thanks VanessaE |
| 01:40 |
VanessaE |
yw |
| 01:42 |
est31 |
I've seen 5.0.0 rc 1 |
| 01:42 |
est31 |
very nice that you took the time to build 5.0.0 |
| 01:42 |
sofar |
Lol |
| 01:43 |
est31 |
am I wrong? |
| 01:43 |
sofar |
You are est31 :) |
| 01:43 |
est31 |
indeed :) |
| 01:44 |
sofar |
Still pedantic, love it |
| 01:46 |
est31 |
what's that supposed to mean |
| 01:49 |
est31 |
5.0 is a big release for minetest |
| 01:49 |
est31 |
I spent so much time with it, of course I'm excited |
| 01:49 |
est31 |
even though I don't play minetest itself any more |
| 01:52 |
Soni |
hm. minetest wouldn't happen to be AGPLv3 by any chance, would it? |
| 01:53 |
|
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| 01:53 |
DoyleChris |
need a little help |
| 01:53 |
DoyleChris |
i redid my raspberry pi and moved my minetest server folder now i get this |
| 01:54 |
DoyleChris |
./minetestserver: error while loading shared libraries: libhiredis.so.0.13: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 02:05 |
sofar |
Est31: just my lame way of appreciating your presence |
| 02:07 |
VanessaE |
Soni: LGPL + CC-By-SAa |
| 02:07 |
VanessaE |
-a |
| 02:07 |
Soni |
:( |
| 02:07 |
Soni |
that's kinda awful |
| 02:07 |
VanessaE |
why? |
| 02:08 |
Soni |
well, with AGPLv3, servers would be required to publish their scripts |
| 02:08 |
Soni |
which would make minetest a more awesome experience |
| 02:08 |
VanessaE |
doesn't apply. |
| 02:08 |
VanessaE |
servers don't distribute code to clients. |
| 02:08 |
est31 |
Soni: don't worry my ways are lamer |
| 02:08 |
est31 |
err |
| 02:08 |
est31 |
sofar: ^ |
| 02:09 |
est31 |
see, I cant even get nicks right |
| 02:09 |
VanessaE |
est31: tab complete FAIL :) |
| 02:09 |
est31 |
xD |
| 02:10 |
Soni |
VanessaE: I said publish their scripts not send them to the clients |
| 02:10 |
Soni |
AGPLv3 is designed for SaaS |
| 02:10 |
sofar |
Agpl doest require scripts to be sent to the client |
| 02:10 |
VanessaE |
Soni: still doesn't apply - *GPL only governs distribution. |
| 02:10 |
Soni |
in other words if you have some scripts running on the server, you're required to publish them, even if they never reach the client otherwise |
| 02:11 |
Soni |
I make everything I make AGPL so google can't use it on their computers |
| 02:11 |
VanessaE |
also, fuck SaaS. |
| 02:12 |
sofar |
Eh? MT multiplayer is saas |
| 02:12 |
VanessaE |
nah |
| 02:12 |
VanessaE |
I don't see it like that |
| 02:12 |
Soni |
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html |
| 02:12 |
VanessaE |
so me SaaS implies a paid subscription to something. |
| 02:12 |
VanessaE |
to me* |
| 02:13 |
sofar |
Maybe, but agpl and saas are orthogonal |
| 02:13 |
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| 02:13 |
VanessaE |
(something that by all rights should have been doable without money or "the cloud" being involved) |
| 02:14 |
Soni |
anyway I want minetest to force server owners to share their code, and the AGPL does that |
| 02:14 |
VanessaE |
"if you run a modified program on a server and let other users communicate with it there, your server must also allow them to download the source code corresponding to the modified version running there" note the key word, "modified" |
| 02:15 |
Soni |
yes, modified |
| 02:15 |
sofar |
Note, communicate |
| 02:15 |
Soni |
so if they're just running a plain minetest with a few unmodified mods, they can probably get away with not publishing source |
| 02:15 |
VanessaE |
that would thus not apply to original work, or to unmodified code. |
| 02:15 |
Soni |
but if they make an awesome script, they'd have to publish their awesome script, because it's modifying minetest or something |
| 02:15 |
Soni |
idk how it works |
| 02:15 |
VanessaE |
wrong. |
| 02:16 |
sofar |
You can make mods agpl |
| 02:16 |
sofar |
Soni is correct |
| 02:16 |
sofar |
Broad intepreted |
| 02:16 |
Soni |
well, I think I said all I had to say :/ |
| 02:16 |
Soni |
googles opinion is "don't touch AGPL because it's antiproprietary" |
| 02:17 |
VanessaE |
he's correct only from the standpoint of downloading a mod, tweaking it, and then using it on the server. |
| 02:17 |
Soni |
I'm a they |
| 02:17 |
Soni |
meh |
| 02:17 |
VanessaE |
whatever :P |
| 02:17 |
Soni |
VanessaE: you have ops just ban me if you don't like me :/ |
| 02:17 |
Soni |
assuming I'm not ban evading or something |
| 02:18 |
Soni |
I haven't checked |
| 02:18 |
Soni |
w/e |
| 02:18 |
sofar |
Your point is good |
| 02:18 |
VanessaE |
ban? nah. in any case, GNU and FSF are not infallible, and you're full of shit a lot of the time. :) |
| 02:18 |
Soni |
I'm not full of shit, I'm just misunderstood |
| 02:18 |
sofar |
Everyone is full of shit. That's why we use the restrooms daily |
| 02:18 |
VanessaE |
hash |
| 02:18 |
VanessaE |
haha |
| 02:19 |
Soni |
(as my recent experiences in #matrix told me... I recommend avoiding that place btw) |
| 02:26 |
Soni |
anyway, https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html |
| 02:28 |
Soni |
I'd even argue "why affero gpl: okay so here's the deal google has explicitly said AGPL is straight-up banned on their property. you're not allowed to have AGPL anywhere, be it on your own flash drive, on your own phone, printed on a piece of paper, and absolutely not on any of their computers." |
| 02:28 |
Soni |
honestly if that's not a reason to use AGPL then idk what is |
| 03:31 |
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| 04:21 |
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| 04:38 |
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| 05:46 |
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| 06:00 |
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| 07:23 |
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| 11:16 |
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| 11:32 |
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| 11:35 |
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| 11:55 |
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| 11:56 |
IhrFussel |
Soni, I completely disagree... if I would have to share all my server code with others then I would quickly lose motivation to try to provide a unique experience for my players, cause others could set up a server with the exact same features any second |
| 11:57 |
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| 11:58 |
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| 11:59 |
rubenwardy |
IhrFussel: CTF is entirely public code, with no other property, yet it hasn't been successfully cloned |
| 11:59 |
rubenwardy |
other servers have builds and such |
| 11:59 |
rubenwardy |
people stay there because of the community and because of the continued development |
| 12:00 |
IhrFussel |
rubenwardy, CTF is by itself basically 'just' a game pack |
| 12:00 |
rubenwardy |
but anyway, at least if you keep it to yourself, less servers would have vulnerabilities |
| 12:00 |
rubenwardy |
wait, who said that? |
| 12:02 |
rubenwardy |
there's also a compromise here - you can share bug fixes and improvements without giving away the complete experience |
| 12:02 |
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| 12:02 |
IhrFussel |
Well not only you work on the mods but quite a few others help you managing the repo ... If I wanted to offer my gameplay as general game then I would surely publish all its code and accept issues/PRs etc ... but I only code it for myself |
| 12:03 |
rubenwardy |
that's one benefit of making the game public |
| 12:03 |
rubenwardy |
I only develop CTF to use on my server |
| 12:03 |
rubenwardy |
I don't develop it for singleplayer or for other servers |
| 12:03 |
IhrFussel |
But you made it so that it can easily be used as 'modpack' |
| 12:04 |
IhrFussel |
Or game rather |
| 12:04 |
IhrFussel |
Since I didn't have such a thing in mind my code is all over the place |
| 12:04 |
rubenwardy |
there's two components to CTF - the base modpack which essentially adds factions and such, and the game which adds actual CTF |
| 12:05 |
rubenwardy |
the former was written to be used in a game like Persistent Kingdoms |
| 12:05 |
rubenwardy |
although I don't recommend its use anymore |
| 12:05 |
rubenwardy |
it's pretty gross |
| 12:05 |
IhrFussel |
Lots of mods depend on custom other mods... 'stock' unmodified mods depend on my own custom mods... I added my own API features to other mods... it is kinda mess but it works |
| 12:05 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 12:10 |
IhrFussel |
I have to use 'bridge' mods cause 2 mods can't depend on each other |
| 12:10 |
IhrFussel |
It would simplify lots of stuff on my server |
| 12:13 |
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| 12:16 |
Soni |
IhrFussel: data wouldn't be covered |
| 12:23 |
IhrFussel |
Not sure what context you mean now... 'code wouldn't be hidden then' or 'certain things wouldn't apply to that license'? |
| 12:36 |
Soni |
data: images, configs, etc don't need to be AGPLv3 |
| 12:36 |
Soni |
(unless your configs are lua files etc) |
| 12:52 |
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| 12:56 |
IhrFussel |
'mods' are lua scripts of course |
| 12:57 |
Soni |
yes |
| 12:57 |
Soni |
you'd have to publish mods, but not their configs or images |
| 13:03 |
IhrFussel |
The mods are the heart of my server's uniqueness |
| 13:03 |
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| 13:03 |
IhrFussel |
Like I said if a server doesn't care about being something special in the list then it can publish its code |
| 13:04 |
IhrFussel |
Or...if all the mods are basically just stock ones and unmodified...and no custom mods were added |
| 13:05 |
Soni |
you can keep the mods' art and your configs proprietary |
| 13:10 |
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| 13:14 |
IhrFussel |
I heavily modified some bigger mods...and I also changed some code in lots of them so I would've to publish the changes I made which destroys the uniqueness of my server |
| 13:16 |
IhrFussel |
I pay for my server, I put much effort and time into coding features... I don't think it's fair to expect that I also make all my code available for others |
| 13:17 |
IhrFussel |
But there are many people who think differently...which is why they don't (only) have a server but also create(d) mods and games for the community to share |
| 13:17 |
IhrFussel |
To each their own |
| 13:17 |
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| 13:19 |
Soni |
you can keep the art and configs proprietary |
| 13:19 |
IhrFussel |
Features are mainly coded in lua |
| 13:20 |
Soni |
what you're saying is "I don't have any art, because art is useless" |
| 13:20 |
Soni |
art is not useless. art makes a lot of difference |
| 13:21 |
Soni |
(unless you're OpenTTD) |
| 13:21 |
rubenwardy |
OpenTTD with 32bit texture <3 |
| 13:21 |
IhrFussel |
My server has a MMO-esque theme and therefore I changed lots of code in mods to behave like a MMO ... but it is no standalone code ... I never plan to publish it so I don't care about readability, usability, compatibility etc... as long as my code works for me personally I'm happy |
| 13:23 |
Soni |
so you made an MMO with no art of your own? |
| 13:23 |
IhrFussel |
The engine is responsible for making sure server owners cannot use some kind of exploits/security holes to inject malicious code into clients IMO |
| 13:24 |
Soni |
no code would be injected into clients |
| 13:24 |
IhrFussel |
I didn't really change textures or models... I only edited the lua code to fit my gameplay |
| 13:24 |
Soni |
and you can inject malicious code into clients using libpng |
| 13:39 |
Wuzzy |
Soni: Are you claiming you found a 0day in Minetest? :O |
| 13:49 |
Soni |
not really |
| 13:49 |
Soni |
libpng has a bunch of known exploits tho |
| 13:52 |
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| 14:05 |
IhrFussel |
Another question: Imagine someone publishes code as MIT license for example...but then later suddenly decides to restrict it more... do the old users still have a valid MIT license? Or does the new license autmatically apply to ALL? |
| 14:07 |
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| 14:07 |
IhrFussel |
If it applies to all it could be harmful to lots of projects ... for example if a project uses the code for commercial purposes but suddenly the new license forbids that ... can the code creator just control that? |
| 14:09 |
sfan5 |
if you at some point download a piece of software licensed under MIT, the exact piece you downloaded will remain under MIT for all eternity |
| 14:09 |
sfan5 |
even if the author decides to change the license for some future version |
| 14:09 |
IhrFussel |
Okay so the license is 100% tied to the version you got |
| 14:11 |
IhrFussel |
sofar, does this apply to all licenses? Or just MIT/similar? |
| 14:11 |
sfan5 |
non-revokability is a clause that most FOSS licenses have |
| 14:12 |
IhrFussel |
I guess if someone uses a 'custom' license they could potentially include something like "if the license changes in the future it applies to all versions up until this point" |
| 14:12 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 14:14 |
IhrFussel |
btw I'm no 'closed-source forever and always' guy ... I shared some of my code here and in the forum already ... code where I thought it might be useful to most other servers and the code license was always MIT |
| 14:15 |
Calinou |
it's not really a "clause", just an aspect of all FSF/OSI-approved licenses out there |
| 14:15 |
Calinou |
(most licenses won't write it explicitly) |
| 14:15 |
IhrFussel |
Just in case some people think now that I'm against OSS or am too arrogant/egoistic to share code |
| 14:40 |
Calinou |
it's a feeling I get among a lot of server owners |
| 14:47 |
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| 14:53 |
entuland |
hey rubenwardy sorry for disturbing - yesterday I downloaded the mod app of yours and got a java ssl handshake error - it wasn't able to get the list of available mods, the interface remained pretty much empty |
| 14:53 |
entuland |
was it just my bad connection? |
| 14:55 |
rubenwardy |
no, it's a weird but that I can't reproduce |
| 14:55 |
rubenwardy |
*bug |
| 14:55 |
entuland |
okay |
| 14:55 |
entuland |
if there is any way I can help you troubleshoot let me know - not sure if you're loggins something I could eventually extract and send you from the app |
| 14:56 |
entuland |
logging* |
| 15:00 |
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| 18:10 |
JDCodeIt |
I have a question about the node groups and tool groupcaps... if the tool does not have the same groupcaps of the node it is trying to dig - nothing should happen? |
| 18:12 |
JDCodeIt |
I'm wondering how the gemintinum drill from xtraores is able to drill nodes where there is no match of groups and groupcaps. Is there an overriding attribute in this tool? |
| 18:19 |
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| 18:50 |
luizrpgluiz |
Hi |
| 18:51 |
JDCodeIt |
Just messing around with it - groupcaps with the following makes the tool able to break anything: weryhard = {times={[3]=0.50, [2]=1.00, [1]=1.50, [0]=2.00}, uses=350, maxlevel=3}, |
| 18:52 |
JDCodeIt |
notice to [0]=2.00 - without this, the tool acts normally |
| 18:52 |
JDCodeIt |
Is [0] entry valid? |
| 19:12 |
MinetestBot |
[git] random-geek -> minetest/minetest: Fix cloud color in loading screen and main menu (#8174) fc566e2 https://git.io/fhShf (2019-02-04T19:11:02Z) |
| 19:15 |
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| 19:16 |
ceda |
why is protonmail blocked on minetest forums? |
| 19:16 |
rubenwardy |
lots of spam and abuse using that email provider |
| 19:17 |
ceda |
hmm fair enough |
| 19:19 |
rubenwardy |
I'm unsure if we can bypass that |
| 19:19 |
rubenwardy |
sfan5, any idea? |
| 19:19 |
ceda |
i created using my domain for now so it isn't an issue for me right now :) |
| 19:19 |
sfan5 |
we can just remove the ban |
| 19:22 |
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| 19:24 |
ceda |
does a minetest-telegram bridge (using a mod and a flask server) count as a mod or a minetest-related project? |
| 19:38 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 19:42 |
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| 19:47 |
yusf[m] |
https://github.com/CERN/CTW |
| 19:47 |
yusf[m] |
CERN doing Minetest?! |
| 19:50 |
sfan5 |
!title |
| 19:50 |
MinetestBot |
sfan5: GitHub - CERN/CTW: Craft The Web - learn how the web was made |
| 19:51 |
rubenwardy |
oh wow |
| 19:51 |
rubenwardy |
is that legit? |
| 19:56 |
sfan5 |
cool |
| 19:59 |
luizrpgluiz |
good work |
| 20:00 |
paramat |
wow |
| 20:01 |
luizrpgluiz |
when will it be the official release of version 5.0 for Linux? |
| 20:01 |
rubenwardy |
when it is ready |
| 20:02 |
rubenwardy |
according to this they use a self-hosted gitlab: http://information-technology.web.cern.ch/services/git-service |
| 20:02 |
luizrpgluiz |
but version 5.0 would not launch this month in the three days ago |
| 20:03 |
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| 20:04 |
luizrpgluiz |
on the forum said that it would be officially released on February 2 or 3 |
| 20:05 |
luizrpgluiz |
Has something happened to hear the delay again? |
| 20:08 |
fwhcat |
it was an estimated date of release, and for the release-candidate, it's not the final 5.0 |
| 20:08 |
paramat |
no, on the forum nerz said it would be released if the blockers were cleared, and i said probably a good idea to add a week of testing after that |
| 20:09 |
paramat |
or something like that |
| 20:09 |
paramat |
i did warn against specifying a date ;) |
| 20:19 |
luizrpgluiz |
good :) |
| 20:20 |
luizrpgluiz |
I was worried because it was not appearing on the launchpad for me to do the update here on Xubuntu 18.10 |
| 20:26 |
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| 21:18 |
scr267a |
Does the function minetest.auth_table still exist in minetest 5.0.0? |
| 21:31 |
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| 21:49 |
paramat |
search latest lua_api.txt? |
| 22:00 |
sfan5 |
!api |
| 22:00 |
MinetestBot |
Someone thinks you should read the API docs, please go to: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt |
| 22:00 |
sfan5 |
scr267: minetest.auth_table is not a function and no it no longer exist |
| 22:01 |
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| 22:02 |
kaeza |
Is there a replacement? |
| 22:03 |
kaeza |
Xban2 uses it in the GUI (to list players). |
| 22:08 |
scr267 |
sfan5: oki doke. thanks |
| 22:08 |
sfan5 |
kaeza: yes, the auth handler now provides an iterator |
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| 22:18 |
kaeza |
sfan5: Thanks, will look at it. |
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* kaeza |
grumbles at FastHub downloading the JSON data instead of the actual file. |
| 22:32 |
jluc |
lol « Added crafts to cook papers from ideas by burning references. » |
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paramat |
'Minetest - As used by CERN' 8) |
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