| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:45 |
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DoyleChris joined #minetest |
| 00:46 |
DoyleChris |
is there a way to enable a mod while server is running |
| 00:50 |
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| 00:55 |
kaeza |
Unless things changed since a year ago, nope. |
| 00:56 |
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| 01:08 |
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| 01:14 |
Ruslan1 |
Hi Xiong |
| 01:24 |
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| 01:29 |
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| 01:47 |
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| 03:38 |
Xiong |
Ruslan1 We just keep missing each other. |
| 03:39 |
Xiong |
Who like kalite torches? |
| 04:08 |
Ruslan1 |
Xiong: why do you asking to anyone |
| 04:09 |
Ruslan1 |
Xiong: no asking to anyone |
| 04:10 |
Ruslan1 |
Xiong: read here https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules |
| 04:10 |
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| 04:11 |
Ruslan1 |
Xiong: Don’t ask if you can ask questions, just ask |
| 04:22 |
Xiong |
Erk? |
| 04:22 |
Xiong |
Sorry. I don't see I asked to ask... I just asked. |
| 04:23 |
Xiong |
Erm... don't have another question behind that one, either. |
| 04:24 |
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| 04:25 |
Xiong |
Ruslan1 have you used kalite torches? Do you like them... or perhaps not? |
| 04:26 |
Ruslan1 |
Don’t ask |
| 04:26 |
Ruslan1 |
Or I will tell celeron55 |
| 04:26 |
Xiong |
?? Don't ask any questions. |
| 04:26 |
Ruslan1 |
Yes |
| 04:27 |
Xiong |
You're misreading "don't ask to ask". |
| 04:28 |
Ruslan1 |
Look here https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules |
| 04:31 |
Xiong |
I've read that a dozen times. Be specific. |
| 04:31 |
Ruslan1 |
Xiong: if you broke the rules then I will tell celeron55 |
| 04:33 |
Xiong |
I mean... sorry. Look, I think you're pulling my leg. I don't know why. But I'm going to drop this with you... at least until you start to crystallize your objection. |
| 04:39 |
Ruslan1 |
I’m not doing that |
| 04:41 |
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| 04:43 |
Ruslan1 |
Hi swift110 |
| 04:57 |
Ruslan1 |
!tell celeron55 Xiong did ask and I told him not to |
| 04:57 |
MinetestBot |
Ruslan1: yeah, yeah |
| 05:31 |
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| 06:30 |
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| 06:49 |
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| 07:04 |
Xiong |
What are these v7 tunnels? Never seen anything I recognize. |
| 07:51 |
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| 09:18 |
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| 10:53 |
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| 10:55 |
Ruslan1 |
celeron55 |
| 10:56 |
Ruslan1 |
!help |
| 10:56 |
MinetestBot |
https://github.com/sfan5/minetestbot-modules/blob/master/COMMANDS.md |
| 10:57 |
Ruslan1 |
!devoice Ruslan1 |
| 10:57 |
Ruslan1 |
!voice Ruslan1 |
| 10:58 |
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| 10:58 |
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| 11:00 |
Ruslan1 |
!kick Ruslan1 |
| 11:00 |
Ruslan1 |
Hi Fixer |
| 11:02 |
Ruslan1 |
Fixer: hi |
| 11:03 |
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| 11:05 |
Ruslan1 |
Hi calcul0n |
| 11:05 |
sfan5 |
you don't need to greet everyone that joins and it doesn't make sense to so |
| 11:06 |
Ruslan1 |
Ok sfan5 |
| 11:07 |
Ruslan1 |
sfan5: do you know Xiong what he did |
| 11:07 |
sfan5 |
what |
| 11:08 |
calcul0n |
hi |
| 11:08 |
Ruslan1 |
So Xiong did ask to anyone and I told him not to |
| 11:46 |
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| 11:46 |
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| 11:59 |
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| 12:02 |
fossrox |
hi everyone! Is it possible to configure somehow a desktop minetest version to make the player move like on android device where he doesn't need to press jump in order to go up in front of a 1m high node? |
| 12:04 |
ANAND |
fossrox: Add `autojump = true` to minetest.conf |
| 12:04 |
fossrox |
ANAND: thank you! :D |
| 12:04 |
ANAND |
:) |
| 12:09 |
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| 13:07 |
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| 13:21 |
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| 13:41 |
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| 14:00 |
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| 14:13 |
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| 14:18 |
MinetestBot |
[git] pauloue -> minetest/minetest: Remove incorrect feature flag (#8086) 11b550e https://git.io/fhEb2 (2019-01-19T14:17:05Z) |
| 14:29 |
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| 14:53 |
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ceda joined #minetest |
| 14:55 |
ceda |
hi, does there exist a mod which opens a socket / web server over which I can send commands that will be eval'd so that I can connect to minetest externally from other languages. |
| 15:07 |
calcul0n |
ceda, maybe you can use this as an example : https://github.com/ac-minetest/basic_robot/tree/master/scripts/http |
| 15:07 |
calcul0n |
it's experimental though, and afaik you need basic_robot to use it |
| 15:11 |
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| 15:16 |
ceda |
calcul0n: it looks like that makes http calls. that is not what I want. |
| 15:16 |
ceda |
I need the mod to listen for requests and eval them |
| 15:17 |
rubenwardy |
it's a lot easier to have a bridge server |
| 15:20 |
ceda |
rubenwardy: what is a bridge server? |
| 15:25 |
rubenwardy |
having a HTTP server which both the language and MT connect to, to communicate |
| 15:26 |
rubenwardy |
you don't need to worry about MT freezing then |
| 15:26 |
rubenwardy |
as MT has a HTTP API which can only be async |
| 15:26 |
rubenwardy |
you can also have multiple servers on one message server |
| 15:26 |
rubenwardy |
bridge is the wrong word, message server is probably better |
| 15:28 |
ceda |
oh cool |
| 15:28 |
ceda |
I need to look into the http api |
| 15:30 |
rubenwardy |
I'd like to get around to make a standard API for this kind of thing |
| 15:31 |
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| 15:31 |
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| 15:50 |
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| 15:56 |
ceda |
rubenwardy: I couldn't find the http api |
| 15:56 |
ceda |
can you link to it? |
| 15:57 |
rubenwardy |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4482 |
| 15:59 |
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| 16:03 |
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| 16:04 |
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| 16:05 |
Krock |
uhm.. for translations in-game? use client-side translation files (5.0-dev feature) |
| 16:06 |
rubenwardy |
I think they mean programming languages |
| 16:14 |
Krock |
ah. API bridge |
| 16:14 |
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| 16:36 |
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| 16:58 |
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| 17:36 |
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| 17:40 |
paramat |
lol Ruslan1 http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2019-01-19#i_5481890 03:39 to 11:08. please stop this silly behaviour, Xiong has done nothing wrong |
| 17:42 |
paramat |
the mgv7 'tunnels' are the caves that intersect the surface |
| 18:03 |
paramat |
Ruslan1 it's fine for people to ask questions when the channel is quiet, to be seen and replied to later, that's partly what the channel is for |
| 18:11 |
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| 18:26 |
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| 18:27 |
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| 18:27 |
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| 18:39 |
Ruslan1 |
Xiong: you can ask if you want to |
| 18:47 |
MinetestBot |
[git] srifqi -> minetest/minetest: Advanced settings noiseparams: No tailing comma for empty flags 9512c29 https://git.io/fhuUq (2019-01-19T18:37:19Z) |
| 18:47 |
MinetestBot |
[git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: Advanced settings noiseparams: Remove '}' left in .conf 80b9015 https://git.io/fhuUm (2019-01-19T18:31:41Z) |
| 19:09 |
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| 20:10 |
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| 20:16 |
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| 20:16 |
IhrFussel |
Ruslan1, what you didn't understand is that "ask to ask" means SOME questions like "hey i have a question" or "can I ask you a question" << THOSE questions are not wanted |
| 20:17 |
IhrFussel |
You can of course ask questions at ANY time |
| 20:17 |
Krock |
can I not ask whether I'm not allowed to not ask questions? |
| 20:17 |
IhrFussel |
Not sure why paramat said you can only ask them when it's quiet, that is incorrect and would censor the chat way too much |
| 20:18 |
IhrFussel |
Krock, ask paramat there :P |
| 20:19 |
IhrFussel |
Or celeron55 or whoever made the rules |
| 20:22 |
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| 21:00 |
Xiong |
Thanks paramat on both counts. I'll stick to the straight cut shafts I dig myself, though. |
| 21:01 |
Xiong |
Krock it's not against the rules for you to not ask. But it is strictly forbidden for you not to ask if you can refrain from asking. |
| 21:02 |
Krock |
askactly |
| 21:17 |
Ruslan1 |
Ok IhrFussel I got it |
| 21:18 |
Ruslan1 |
Xiong I’m sorry |
| 21:24 |
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| 21:46 |
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| 21:47 |
paramat |
"Not sure why paramat said you can only ask them when it's quiet" nah i never wrote that =) |
| 22:29 |
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| 22:29 |
IhrFussel |
Let me recheck |
| 22:30 |
Guest15929 |
any one elses been kicked from a server for no reason |
| 22:31 |
Guest15929 |
ive just tried to log on to the server to find ive been kicked |
| 22:31 |
sfan5 |
what does it say? |
| 22:33 |
Guest15929 |
acess denied reason yo are banned for 2 hours ive not been on atall today so i dont understand |
| 22:33 |
IhrFussel |
Okay looks like the 3 "," in his message made it sound confusing to me |
| 22:34 |
IhrFussel |
Nobody but the server staff can help you |
| 22:34 |
Guest15929 |
how do i contact them |
| 22:34 |
IhrFussel |
So check if they have discord/IRC or a thread in the forum (forum.minetest.net) |
| 22:40 |
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| 22:42 |
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| 22:47 |
IhrFussel |
I personally think every server on the list should have a mandatory way to contact the server owner ... you know in case of security vulnerabilities, legal actions etc |
| 22:48 |
IhrFussel |
An email would be enough really |
| 22:49 |
IhrFussel |
If you want to be publicly reachable you must take responsibility |
| 22:50 |
rubenwardy |
I partially agree, although think that this could/should be kept private |
| 22:50 |
rubenwardy |
and then emails proxied like with domain name privacy |
| 22:54 |
IhrFussel |
You mean the server owner tells core devs openly their email and then core devs "obfuscate" it and link that "obfuscated" email to the server where everybody can contact them? |
| 22:54 |
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| 22:55 |
IhrFussel |
Or are you talking about something that each machine needs to setup on its own? That would cause chaos...it should be something centralized |
| 22:55 |
IhrFussel |
For example send server request via MT website which doesn't tell the actual email |
| 22:56 |
IhrFussel |
"server request" refers to the message from the user who wants to contact owner X |
| 22:57 |
rubenwardy |
I mean that the emails for each server aren't listed |
| 22:57 |
rubenwardy |
although idk |
| 22:58 |
rubenwardy |
if you make something like this mandatory, some people won't want to do it |
| 22:58 |
IhrFussel |
They don't need to be visible in the list... it would be enough to store them somewhere privately/encrypted and offer a web interface ... that is how DENIC does the whois now btw |
| 22:58 |
rubenwardy |
ah true |
| 22:58 |
rubenwardy |
that's roughly what I meant, but better |
| 22:59 |
Shara |
And then people use throw-away email addresses to dodge it if they don't want real ones known anyway |
| 22:59 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 22:59 |
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| 23:00 |
IhrFussel |
Well people also could enter a valid address but never/rarely check it... if we think like that no solution makes sense |
| 23:00 |
Shara |
That was really my point. |
| 23:00 |
IhrFussel |
Unless we found a method to "track" the activity which is a big no-no |
| 23:00 |
Shara |
Besides, you know, I don't want to get emails from such a thing. |
| 23:01 |
Shara |
It should be my choice how people can contact me. |
| 23:01 |
IhrFussel |
But right now anybody can create any server and add it to the list... and as long as core devs are not convinced something illegal/otherwise bad happens there nothing can be done about it |
| 23:01 |
Shara |
Servers with unreachable owners are likely to end up as dead servers sooner or later |
| 23:01 |
Shara |
Yea, of course there is. |
| 23:02 |
Shara |
They can then be removed from the list once a concern is raised |
| 23:02 |
IhrFussel |
Yes but depending on actual evidence this might take some time |
| 23:02 |
rubenwardy |
I also wouldn't want to be contacted like that by players |
| 23:03 |
Shara |
Fussel, are there any real cases of this being a problem? |
| 23:03 |
rubenwardy |
such a thing is more useful for sending alerts like "Worldedit GUI contains a remote execution vulnerability, please update" |
| 23:03 |
Shara |
rubenwardy: agreed, but it should still be opt-in, not something mandatory |
| 23:04 |
IhrFussel |
There was once a server run by a "supposed" childlover ... a former MOD of mine told me about it... the server owner often joined child roleplay and sometimes made them weird offers |
| 23:04 |
Shara |
"supposed" |
| 23:04 |
Shara |
Did anyone try to go to the devs and ask for it to be investigated or removed from the list? |
| 23:05 |
IhrFussel |
I trust my MODs ... they told me that he did it rather smart...whatever that means |
| 23:05 |
Shara |
And if the server owner is doing things like that, or letting someone who does that run their server, emailing them is unlikely to hep very much. |
| 23:05 |
Shara |
help* |
| 23:06 |
IhrFussel |
Well... if the child doesn't know how to make a screenshot (and many don't) there is not much proof...chat is not logged client side |
| 23:06 |
Shara |
But having a mandatory email address doesn't help |
| 23:06 |
Shara |
We say "please stop this", they reply "sure, it's not happening"... then they hide it better? |
| 23:07 |
Shara |
If something is going on, communication won't help |
| 23:07 |
Shara |
The server just needs to be removed, and maybe the authorities even contacted depending on what's going on there |
| 23:08 |
Shara |
(and by removed I mean from the public list. You can't expect the devs to be able to do more than that) |
| 23:09 |
IhrFussel |
And maybe people should be warned in the forum...or somewhere public |
| 23:09 |
Shara |
But you'd want that without proof? |
| 23:10 |
IhrFussel |
No...if there is proof... core devs cannot just remove a server without proof either...that would be wrong |
| 23:10 |
Shara |
So we're back to mandatory emails not helping... |
| 23:11 |
IhrFussel |
Well that idea was more targeting things like critical bugs/exploits, other vulnerabilities or to report bad behaving players without the owner being in the game for quite some time |
| 23:12 |
IhrFussel |
You know there are servers where owners only check maybe 1 or 2 times per week if everything still runs |
| 23:12 |
Shara |
That should again be opt-in though |
| 23:13 |
IhrFussel |
Remember the WE exploit? Usually server owners should be informed as soon as possible...but how would that be possible if they neither have a forum accoun/IRC/discord etc? An email could very well help there cause nearly anybody got one |
| 23:14 |
Shara |
That doesn't change that it would have to be opt-in. |
| 23:14 |
Shara |
You cannot force people to recieve emails |
| 23:15 |
IhrFussel |
Well I guess only core devs would know it then by default... and a server owners needs t kinda "trust" the devs of the game server they run |
| 23:15 |
IhrFussel |
to* |
| 23:16 |
IhrFussel |
It could be optional to let regular users contact them |
| 23:16 |
Shara |
I guess you don't understand what opt-in means |
| 23:16 |
* Shara |
goes back to more constructive things before this gets stuck in even more of a loop |
| 23:17 |
IhrFussel |
It would make no sense to make this opt-in cause it should be used to push an important message to their inbox in case of something critical |
| 23:17 |
IhrFussel |
That is also how hosters do it...they don't ask you (AFAIK) if you want to receive en email when something is wrong with your server |
| 23:18 |
IhrFussel |
an* |
| 23:18 |
Shara |
Paid for service involving a contract you have to enter into is different from inclusion on a server list |
| 23:19 |
Xiong |
I am the captain of my ship... the final word. I'm with Shara on this. Nothing can be forced on me. It's not a matter of morality. Do what you will, I will evade or subvert anything mandatory. |
| 23:20 |
Shara |
Also a lot of countries have various anti-spam laws.. and if you say "I don't want emails from this" and then you force them on people... guess what you're violating? |
| 23:20 |
Shara |
But maybe you want to add a legally binding contract needed to get your server on the public list? |
| 23:20 |
Xiong |
If you ask nicely I may cooperate. But I'll fight something I otherwise approve of, just because you're shoving me. |
| 23:21 |
Shara |
Yes, what Xiong. Ask and don't force (aka "opt-in") |
| 23:21 |
Shara |
what Xiong said* |
| 23:21 |
Xiong |
Haha if you force a contract on me, I'll break it. |
| 23:23 |
IhrFussel |
Xiong, okay it's your ship...and if an exploit turns it into a spam bot that sends lots of malicious emails to people all over the world withut any way of someone contacting you about it you will soon find yourself in court |
| 23:23 |
Xiong |
Whatever you want me to do.... anywhere, anytime... you must persuade. Bribe, appeal to reason, make it a joke I enjoy. But I resist all attempts to compel my hand.... and I mean that in the broadest possible way. |
| 23:24 |
Shara |
Fussel: that doesn't even make sense. MT servers don't by default have anything to do with email. |
| 23:24 |
Xiong |
And yes IhrFussel then I will have run my ship aground. I will have done it, me. I'll pay the price l've earned. |
| 23:26 |
Xiong |
Let me guess... with such a handle... German? Netherlander? I'm a USAian. |
| 23:29 |
Xiong |
We don't cotton to enforced social responsibility. I expect about 80% of my countrymen think it a constitutional right to get stinking drunk, shamble through town singing loudly and off key, puke in the street, and pass out with the motor running. |
| 23:31 |
Xiong |
Hell, after an effort lasting my whole life, I think there's still a significant fraction of us who believe... as in believe in their gods... they should be permitted to drive while drinking beer and throw the empties out the window. This is America. |
| 23:33 |
IhrFussel |
Huh? If you manage to take over the machine I'm sure you can also send emails and do worse things |
| 23:33 |
Shara |
Which has nothing to do with MT. |
| 23:34 |
Xiong |
I think good, prosocial conduct is a moral imperative weighing on every action of every person... individually. The more the state attempts to impose that good conduct on the people, the weaker our individual moral compasses are weakened. |
| 23:34 |
Shara |
MT does not ask for emails. MT does not send emails. Unless for some reason you personally have decided to request emails from players, there is no way that's going to touch anyone connected to MT. You can't expect the MT team to detect it or moderate it. |
| 23:35 |
Xiong |
So... if I won't take it from Uncle Sam... what chance have you got? |
| 23:35 |
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| 23:37 |
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| 23:43 |
paramat |
ugh. servers should be free to have poor communication, and more generally, be free to be poorly administered. anything 'mandatory' reduces server freedom, and therefore your own freedom to run your server as you wish. dictating how other servers should be run (as you do often) is the same as someone else dictating how you should run your server, you wouldn't like that |
| 23:45 |
Xiong |
Thx paramat. |
| 23:46 |
IhrFussel |
In this case I want to suggest more security... and people who run such poorly administered servers don't deserve any players IMO ... but unfortunately some of those are still visited fairly frequently |
| 23:47 |
Xiong |
That said, it would be great to build a contact feature into mt. Needn't be email. Just any method of sending messages. |
| 23:47 |
rubenwardy |
someone's just salty that they don't get all the players |
| 23:47 |
IhrFussel |
my point was having a direct way of telling them that smething is wrong with their servers...the other alternative would be to try to shutdown those servers remotely to prevent any further damage (which was done in the past but highly controversial) |
| 23:47 |
Xiong |
Up to the operator to use the feature. |
| 23:47 |
paramat |
(however, drinking and driving endangers lives, poor example) |
| 23:48 |
IhrFussel |
Huh? Player count is pretty much random in MT I already explained this fact many times |
| 23:48 |
Shara |
Fussel: you're basically saying "do it my way or you have to illegally hack people". Just... what? |
| 23:48 |
rubenwardy |
CTF has the same player count day after day |
| 23:48 |
Xiong |
rubenwardy there's a real issue. I find the server list all but useless because it doesn't tell me what I want to know. |
| 23:49 |
rubenwardy |
what do you want to know? |
| 23:49 |
Shara |
I'd love filters :) |
| 23:49 |
IhrFussel |
That might be because your server is the only really known CTF server that is permanently maintained |
| 23:49 |
rubenwardy |
I'd quite like support for thumbnails and the game name, personally |
| 23:49 |
rubenwardy |
oh and filters |
| 23:49 |
rubenwardy |
yeah probably, CTF tends to be an edge case |
| 23:50 |
paramat |
a way to contact server admin is a good idea of course, just don't try to enforce it |
| 23:50 |
Xiong |
Well, I want at least a paragraph of explanation from the op. I want player ratings. I want more informative classifications. |
| 23:50 |
Shara |
Player ratings wouldn't be helpful |
| 23:50 |
IhrFussel |
Creative and survival servers are by default (only if you use MTG or only use known "stock" mods that run on many servers) very similar |
| 23:50 |
Shara |
Odds are the only ones who would comment would be highly biased |
| 23:51 |
Shara |
"0/10 because admin is mean and banned me" or "10/10, it's great and I'm a moderator" |
| 23:51 |
Xiong |
A straight list may be too bulky. A searchable, filterable database better. |
| 23:51 |
rubenwardy |
https://i.rubenwardy.com/kVil5.png |
| 23:52 |
Shara |
Xiong: More ways to classify servers would be nice though. |
| 23:52 |
Xiong |
Shara, you csn normalize that out. Also any intelligent rating system weights ratings by reputation of the rater. |
| 23:52 |
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| 23:52 |
Shara |
Xiong: maybe my issue is that I would not expect an intelligent one :) |
| 23:52 |
sfan5 |
the server list is pretty small, trying to sort it with ratings wouldn't be very helpful |
| 23:52 |
sfan5 |
IMO |
| 23:53 |
Shara |
I'd rather people decide if my servers are any good based on checking them and spending some time there |
| 23:53 |
Shara |
Because not all players want the same thing anyway |
| 23:53 |
Out`Of`Control |
indeed |
| 23:53 |
Xiong |
Small to you. More thsn three choices is a lot for me. |
| 23:54 |
Xiong |
Perhaps in mt, a good rating system weights by time spent by the rater. |
| 23:55 |
Shara |
Hmm, could be a nice measure, but no real way to track that currently |
| 23:55 |
Xiong |
Sorry I just exhausted myself. |
| 23:55 |
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| 23:56 |
Shara |
Ratings would likely need all kinds of alaborate thigns changed to be of any use, and I doubt it's worth it. |
| 23:56 |
Shara |
Filters though... that'd be good. |
| 23:56 |
IhrFussel |
Mobile players don't have that choice Shara ... most apps now force you to stay on server x until you unlock server y ... and you have to stay on server y until you unlock server z ... this is the hard reality nowadays |
| 23:57 |
Shara |
Fussel, apps that MT has no control over |
| 23:57 |
Shara |
And rating systems also would not help them |
| 23:57 |
Shara |
Because.. as you say, they can't choose |
| 23:57 |
IhrFussel |
But it explains perfectly why sometimes a server, that usually only gets very few players, is full of them...and another time is dead again |
| 23:58 |
IhrFussel |
That is why I said the player count is to some extent random |
| 23:59 |
IhrFussel |
Cause 3rd-party-apps implement arbitrary currency systems and neither the MT devs nor server owners have any say over that |
| 23:59 |
paramat |
"the other alternative would be to try to shutdown those servers remotely to prevent any further damage" i doubt anyone can other than the server provider survice and the law. MT doesn't have ultimate control over server operation, and never should. i could shut down your server if i felt like it one day |
