Time Nick Message 00:22 swift110 oh wow 02:34 paramat the 'current android app' is 5.0.0-dev, not 0.4.x.x-x, use stujones11's builds in the forum 02:38 paramat the latest MT 0.4-compatible android app is 0.4.17.1-3 which still has bugs, and is here https://github.com/minetest/minetest/releases 02:42 paramat "The version in Play Store appears to be newer than 'latest' on GitHub." no. and there is no code in the playstore app that doesn't already exist somewhere on github 02:43 paramat the app versioning numbers were a mess, i complained about it a while back, 0.4.17.2 should never have been used, that should have been, and now is, 0.4.17.1-2 02:48 paramat Xiong unless you want the widest range of servers to join, use the 5.0.0-dev app, it's bug free and far better than the 0.4.x app which is nearly unusable 02:50 VanessaE paramat: you're WAY late to the game.......... 02:51 paramat clarifying 02:51 paramat and there is no risk in 5.0.0 at all 02:52 VanessaE except Xiong ain't here to see your replies, he's at work :) 03:30 Pilcrow182 heh, paramat, we *did* tell him 5.0.0 was good, but he wasn't having it. That label 'stable' seems to carry more weight to some people than to others, despite 5.0.0 being much better (for Android especially, but I've noticed the improvements over 0.4.x even on PC)... 03:31 Pilcrow182 ^ better as long as compatibility with 0.4.x servers isn't a concern, that is. 03:31 paramat yeah 03:32 VanessaE well considering there are literally about 10 times as many 0.4.17 servers as 5.0.0.......... 03:32 VanessaE now is NOT the time to promote 5.0.0 03:34 Pilcrow182 VanessaE: it IS better for single-player though, just not if you need to connect to (most) servers. Which Xiong didn't seem to care about in the first place... 03:34 VanessaE perhaps. 03:34 VanessaE but singleplayer is boring :P 03:37 Pilcrow182 heh, well, singleplayer or hosting your own small unlisted server for a friend or two, playing it like a LAN. 03:37 Pilcrow182 That's what I do, most weeks (I have a couple of friends that like to join me Fridays and Saturdays for building crazy pipeworks/mesecons/etc machines). 03:44 Pilcrow182 I do a lot of my own mod programming too, so we usually always have something new to build our machines around, lol. 03:45 Pilcrow182 I've been trying to split up some of those mods to release them individually, but it's slow going. Mostly because I am too lazy to figure out how to split them up -- I kind of have a messy web of mods... :P 06:23 Xiong I'm in... at least until interrupted. 06:26 Xiong So https://dev.minetest.net/minetest.register_node talks about on_use and on_punch callbacks... okay. 06:28 Xiong I imagine that when I find the register tool API, it will have the same named callbacks... which are called when any node is used or punched while wielding the registered tool 06:28 Xiong ... correct so far? 06:31 Xiong But https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/blob/master/technic/tools/mining_drill.lua installs on_use callbacks... under both minetest.register_tool() and the matching technic. call. 06:34 Xiong So I'm puzzled. The drill does nothing when used... except what anything, including hand, would do. It drills when I punch... naturally. Yet the file installs no on_punch or on_dig callback... that I see. 06:34 Xiong What is this wizardry? 06:53 Xiong https://dev.minetest.net/minetest.register_tool is incomplete so I'm only guessing. 06:53 Xiong I don't even expect to find docs for technic API. 06:55 Xiong What I do see is lengthy code in drill.lua inside the on_use callback. This drives me nuts. 07:01 Xiong What's really driving me around the bend is that Lua does not use ';' to separate or terminate statements. 07:06 Xiong When I return after a few hours I seem to have been unvoiced. 08:01 MinetestBot 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix ignored mod.conf mod name for world.mt (broken by e8eaab6) 137efb407 https://git.io/fpb5D (152018-12-15T08:01:00Z) 08:32 Xiong The dev wiki seems to be not a good source for API. 08:38 Xiong From rubenwardy: "By default, the use callback is triggered when a player left-clicks with an item." What? Right-click is use; left-click is punch aka dig. So... this confusion is baked into API. 08:43 VanessaE left-click is use when it's a tool. 08:46 VanessaE also, maybe you're thinking of "right click is use" from the perspective of the thing that was clicked-on (chest, furnace, button) rather than the wielded item? 09:27 Alexand{er|ra} VanessaE: I found some odd bugs in Unified Dyes. First, no dyes can dye things to use palette indexes 244, 248, or 252. Those indexes are completely unused. Second, three of the dyes dye things to the same colours as three of the other dyes: dye:grey_8 and dye:grey share index 247, dye:grey_4 and dye:dark_grey share index 251 and dye:grey_12 and dye:light_grey share index 243. 09:28 VanessaE those greys are intentional 09:29 Alexand{er|ra} Why have two dyes that do the same thing (not aliases, but separate dye items)? 09:29 VanessaE if indexes 244, 248, and 252 are getting skipped, that's a bug :) probably just missing recipes 09:29 VanessaE well they're supposed to be aliases actually 09:29 VanessaE probably just an oversight on my part 09:30 VanessaE pull requests welcome :) 09:31 VanessaE anyway, file issues for those. 09:31 VanessaE or make pull requests 09:31 Alexand{er|ra} Which way do you want the aliases? Numeric to named, or named to numeric? As for the missing recipes, I found them because I was trying to get the machine to tell me what dyes do what, so I don't know what dyes are missing. 09:31 VanessaE either way, I don't want to let those glitches go unattended 09:31 VanessaE numeric to named 09:31 VanessaE because two of those names are default dyes. 09:32 Alexand{er|ra} Alright. I'll get that request in in a bit. 09:32 VanessaE thanks :) 09:32 VanessaE I'll be making my way to bed soon 09:32 Alexand{er|ra} Alright, g'night! 09:37 * Alexand{er|ra} grumbles about having to deal with reCAPTCHA again 09:38 Alexand{er|ra} Oh, it only made me fill out two of them. Usually, reCAPTCHA hits me with about twenty to thirty CAPTCHAs before it'll let me through. 09:40 Alexand{er|ra} Oh, what ... 09:41 Alexand{er|ra} Okay, so I don't know what's going on, but the alias seems to actually be in place already. However, Minetest is still reporting it as two separate recipes. 09:41 Alexand{er|ra} So when you get back, VanessaE, I guess that's a Minetest bug, not a Unified Dyes bug. 09:50 Alexand{er|ra} I'm going to need to do more debugging, for the second issue. It seems there are 256 dyes (as there should be), but three colours are unused, while two dyes are unused. That doesn't make any sense to me. 09:50 Alexand{er|ra} The number of unused dyes should match the number of unused colours. 09:53 Alexand{er|ra} Okay, no, found the issue. The light grey I mentioned doesn't have a counterpart in the default dyes mod. Only the other two do. 09:54 Alexand{er|ra} I need to get to sleep, but I guess I'll get this fixed tomorrow if I have time and get a pull request for that in. 10:55 Alexand{er|ra} I have a hard time sleeping when it's my job to fix a bug. Now I can get to sleep though. 10:55 Alexand{er|ra} VanessaE: 11:16 Ingar remember, even the IT guy needs to eat and sleep 12:50 jluc and eating pizza everyday and night is not an option 12:51 Xiong VanessaE> left-click is use when it's a tool.... Yes; I'm annoyed. Does no good to be annoyed but I wish the party responsible for this were to think over the consequences. It's just cruel. 12:55 Xiong There are two basic actions available to player involving items; and just typing them is a knucklebuster if I write lck or rck out in full. Also, here I am on Android where the pair can't be thought of that way... here it's longtap and doubletap 12:58 Xiong The only straw a drowning dyslexic can grasp is... dig and use. "use" always was a poor choice of word... like "last" or "count". But I did accept it and hammered it into my head: dig right, use left. 13:04 Xiong So now I see wielded A acting on node B named "dig" or "place" when B is talking and "use" when A is talking. Fine. 13:07 Xiong So... A is used on B which is dug. If A is ___ on B which is used... please fill in the blank? 13:11 Xiong paramat Better if I don't try to explain my conservatism. Here's my offer: Let me do my best to get a 0.4.x system working on this little gadget and I promise, win or lose on that, to take a stab at upgrading a copy of that to 5.0.0 13:14 Xiong jluc I have, twice in life, eaten only pizza for a year (to a close approximation of "only"). 13:16 Xiong Argh. This is how stuff gets broken. Dig is punch, not place. 13:17 * Xiong tries to unsnarl cables in head 14:13 MinetestBot 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Add a basic kubernetes deployment file (#7979) 1324cdbe9 https://git.io/fpNvc (152018-12-15T14:12:40Z) 15:33 Xiong VanessaE I'm going to take your suggestion and try dreambuilder_modpack. A while ago I was tempted but I read your caution: "This modpack is NOT intended for use on mobile devices." 15:35 Xiong It's a real heavyweight but I think it might be easier to start there and cut it down until it runs.... than to build up. We'll see. So thanks. 15:37 Pilcrow182 Xiong: In which instance is a right-click a 'use' action anyway? AFAIK, It has always been left-click to use, punch, or dig, and right-click to place or interact with chests, doors, etc. There *is* a LITTLE bit of confusion with that word 'interact' since some things (protection, player privs, etc) treat placing as interacting as well, but either way right-click has never been 'use'. Unless I'm missing something... 15:39 Pilcrow182 ^ actually, I think protection and player privs treat placing *and* digging as 'interact', so maybe there is a better word I'm not aware of for interacting with existing nodes. Either way, it's not 'use'... 15:49 Xiong Pilcrow182 Yes language is a big issue. Only way to avoid confusion certainly is through wordy concrete examples. Let me give a few and invite you to supply class or generic terms for them. 15:50 Xiong Example: Cobble is a node. Pick is a tool. 15:52 Xiong So... I do sth with a pick on cobble. The cobble vanishes from the world and appears in inventory. I say that sth-action is "to dig". 15:54 Xiong But if I do sth else with cobble wielded, it vanishes from inventory and appears on the world. I say that sth is "to place". 15:54 Xiong Then it gets complex 15:57 Xiong If I "place" that cobble on a chest, the cobble remains in hand. The chest opens instead. To effect the result of making the cobble sit on the chest, I must do sth else 15:57 Xiong ... which I have been calling "use". 15:58 Xiong Wait wait, I screwed that up. 16:00 Xiong Correction. When I try to place but the chest opens instead, I call that use. To get the effect of place instead, I must sneak-use. 16:01 Xiong The control action for opening a chest and placing cobble on cobble is the same. The control action for placing cobble on chest is different. 16:04 Xiong So it's hard as hell to pick names for the control actions! Words like "use" and "dig" imply effects. Words like "right-click" and "longtap" are insufficiently abstract... assuming a particular device. 16:04 Xiong Pilcrow182? 16:07 Xiong Had a long hard night me... so I'll let you chew that while I saw trees into sand. ;) cul8r 16:18 Hawk777 Not to mention that Use is actually the name of a key in the settings menu, the purpose of which I have never discovered since all actions taken in the world seem to be taken with mouse buttons instead. 16:18 Hawk777 I can wander around the world pushing it while looking at various things and nothing ever happens. 16:18 Hawk777 So I don’t know why it’s there, honestly. 16:38 Pilcrow182_ "When I try to place but the chest opens instead, I call that use." -- well there's your problem. The engine/API doesn't ever call that 'use', if it did there would be mass confusion 16:39 Pilcrow182_ Oh, Xiong said goodnight already. Stupid computer froze on me. 16:40 Pilcrow182_ well, not 'goodnight' but 'see you later'... 16:44 Pilcrow182_ Hawk777: Yeah, that's a good point. I never knew why that key was called 'use' anyway. But that issue will be fixed for the 5.0.0 release (the dev versions of 5.0.0 already call it 'special' instead of 'use'). 17:11 pere hi. just wanted to bring to your attention. :) 18:45 tumeninodes pere, the official site for minetest is minetest.net (.org is a hostile site to this project and should not be given as a link) please correct this asap 18:47 Krock there's also .com which is somewhat outdated 18:54 Alexand{er|ra} OldCoder's gone hostile on us? That's sad. 18:55 Alexand{er|ra} Wow. His site even claims to be the official Minetest site ... 18:56 exio4 who is OldCoder? 18:56 Alexand{er|ra} exio4: The owner of the .org site mentioned by tumeninodes. 18:56 exio4 wow 18:57 exio4 is there any way to issue a complaint? 18:57 Alexand{er|ra} He used to be a respected community member here. 18:57 exio4 Alexand{er|ra}: I think I remember him 18:57 exio4 but I don't recognize most people nowadays here lol 18:57 exio4 so it's always good to ask 18:57 Alexand{er|ra} exio4: I guess you could complain via email, if you wanted to. Not sure, other than that. 18:57 exio4 Alexand{er|ra}: to the registrar? 18:58 Alexand{er|ra} Oh, I thought you meant complain to OldCoder about his site. Not sure how to complain to the registrar. 19:01 sfan5 what would a complaint achieve? 19:01 exio4 sfan5: taking it down 19:01 sfan5 good luck with that 19:01 exio4 i know 19:02 exio4 rip 19:08 pere tumeninodes: aha. done. 19:13 tumeninodes thank you pere 19:49 rubenwardy NSAlogbot: here's some context http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/2018-11-27#i_5446137 19:49 rubenwardy Also exio4 19:49 rubenwardy And IcyDiamond 19:54 NSAlogbot rubenwardy: Huh. Thanks for the context. It's sad to see he decided to behave that way. 19:55 Xiong Pilcrow182_ Not wasted. 19:56 Xiong You have not filled in the blank. All this running in circles. May I have a set of words on which we agree? 19:59 Xiong I say "dig" and "punch" are the same. But whatever places a block is the same as what opens a chest or... for that matter, places a chest. What to call this? Then... I hope... more language. 20:07 exio4 rubenwardy: RIP 20:08 Xiong 1154 ...It's sad to see.... Yesyes. There are old coders; there are bold coders; but there are no old, bold coders. 20:16 Xiong Pilcrow182_ I will accept "use" as a synonym for "dig"... by default on a standard machine done with leftck. But I want confirmation we'll stick with it and I want a word or three for the *other* common action, by standard default activated by rtck. 21:23 Fedora29 hey i need help with irc mod on fedora 29. tried this on the 0.4.15 release and the 0.4.16 release as i dont wanna use newer. does the mod not support newer releases? btw luasocket is installed, both lua-socket from dnf ad luasocket from luarocks. also the irc mod works on other servers on my server. 21:23 Fedora29 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/9YvpcbzWHz/ 21:23 Fedora29 p.s. i'm not bobr, just trying to compile for him 21:29 Ruslan1 my server not running 22:15 Out`Of`Control Ruslan1: feed it a bit 22:33 Ruslan1 Out`Of`Control: do you remember we speak Russian with together 22:34 Ruslan1 Out`Of`Control 23:00 scr267 Fedora29: Hum there is a compat IRC package for lua socket 23:00 scr267 that might help 23:00 scr267 My server is Fedora29 also, but I run minetest 0.4.17 23:00 scr267 Fedora29: lua-socket-compat lua-sec-compat 23:03 Fedora29 hey 23:03 Fedora29 i just reopened my client 23:03 Fedora29 noticed pings. 23:03 Fedora29 (on znc) 23:03 Fedora29 lets see 23:04 Fedora29 scr267, i'll try installing those soon 23:04 Ruslan1 Edgy1 my server seems not running with irc 23:04 Fedora29 well im having an eerily similar issue Ruslan1 23:04 scr267 Yeah, remember that you can rollback if that doesn't work... but that's what I need to make it work on my server... Oh I also had to modify the irc/init.lua file 23:05 scr267 I added these lines: 23:05 scr267 package.path = package.path .. ";/usr/lib64/lua/5.3/?.lua" 23:05 scr267 package.cpath = package.cpath .. ";/usr/lib64/lua/5.3/?.so" 23:05 scr267 So that it can find the proper libraries 23:05 Ruslan1 Edgy1 I look for code and no problems 23:06 Fedora29 scr267, do you remember amhi? 23:06 scr267 huh? 23:07 scr267 who? 23:07 Fedora29 amhi the server 23:07 Fedora29 that used to be like #1 on serverlist 23:07 scr267 nope, never been on it. 23:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome 23:07 scr267 I haven't been on many servers. 23:07 Fedora29 scr267, well bobr and i wanna put it back up together 23:07 scr267 ok 23:07 Fedora29 and, it hasnt been up for a while and it was running like 0.4.14 23:07 Fedora29 the mods are old but old maps shall never die (quote from someone you guys dont like) 23:08 Ruslan1 Edgy1 I play amhi before 23:08 Fedora29 yeah 23:09 Ruslan1 Edgy1 did you play amhi 23:10 Ruslan1 Edgy1 Edgy1 Edgy1 23:11 Fedora29 Ruslan1, yes 23:11 Ruslan1 Do you play amhi 23:11 Fedora29 Ruslan1, im sorry i dont have a lot of time, i'll try and recompile on your server soon. and, i just said yes 23:11 Fedora29 tho amhi hasnt been up for like a year 23:12 Ruslan1 Edgy1 can I take over the amhi 23:12 Fedora29 hmm let me check my brain's built in dictionary for the correct word 23:12 Fedora29 ahhhh found it 23:12 Fedora29 NO 23:12 Fedora29 XD 23:13 Ruslan1 Ok 23:13 Ruslan1 So you are new owner of amhi 23:14 Fedora29 well bobr was always. we will hve to decide whether i'm head owner or bobr is. 23:14 Fedora29 bobr and i 23:14 Fedora29 we are putting up together but i'm personally against 2 owners because of the crap that happened with legends of survival lol 23:16 Fedora29 hmm 23:17 Fedora29 scr267, still there? got question 23:17 Fedora29 im looking in the init.lua 23:17 Ruslan1 amhi it hard to find diamonds 23:21 Ruslan1 Edgy1 looks I find https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=11529 23:24 Fedora29 hi DI3HARD139 23:26 Ruslan1 Edgy1 Edgy1 looks I found https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=11529 23:34 scr267 Fedora29: You can post your question but I'm semi AFK so I may not be able to answer timely 23:34 Fedora29 ok 23:35 Fedora29 scr267, still dont work but not sure if i did it right 23:35 scr267 Does the log make reference to any missing library files? 23:35 scr267 check your debug.txt file. 23:35 Fedora29 k 23:35 Fedora29 i'll paste just 3 lines 23:35 Fedora29 from init.lua 23:35 Fedora29 ie.package.path = ie.package.path.. 23:35 Fedora29 ";/usr/lib64/lua/5.1/?.lua".. 23:35 Fedora29 ";/usr/lib64/lua/5.1/?/init.lua" 23:36 BillyS Can player:set_hp calls be overridden by minetest.register_on_player_hpchange? 23:36 BillyS I know "normal" damage can 23:36 Fedora29 scr267, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/fDgRjdBvwF/ 23:40 BillyS Apparently not 23:41 BillyS Wait 23:42 BillyS No, it is overriden 23:42 BillyS Rats 23:43 Ruslan1 BillyS 23:43 BillyS yes? 23:45 Ruslan1 BillyS how many times I lost privs in your server 23:46 BillyS I don't know 23:46 Fedora29 BillyS, maybe you can help me :v 23:48 Ruslan1 BillyS you don’t know but you will know 23:48 BillyS Ruslan1 what do you mean 23:48 Fedora29 Ruslan1, this is kind of offtopic here 23:49 Ruslan1 I know Edgy1 23:49 Fedora29 use pm or smt 23:51 Ruslan1 Yeah I won’t get ban in here by using pm and smt 23:51 Ruslan1 Edgy1 23:55 Bullkang greetings!