Time Nick Message 00:00 Alexand{er|ra} Sweet, I'm halfway across the map now, in one dimension. I'm zipping along much more nicely now! Still, I'm checking up to the entire surface area, so that's a two-dimensional space. A long way to go yet. 00:01 Alexand{er|ra} Oh, I just made it to one percent of a positive test result though, so maybe I'll have a positive result before I go to bed and won't need to scan much of the surface. 03:20 * Alexand{er|ra} nervously checks their disk's free space 03:21 Alexand{er|ra} This world-generation test is taking forever, but I guess it isn't eating as much disk space as I feared it would. 03:59 Alexand{er|ra} I think my client has somehow become disconnected from its server, in a single-player game. Not sure how or why, but nothing works any more. 04:01 Alexand{er|ra} I can't restart the game either, as that'd restart the world survey from the beginning. 04:03 Alexand{er|ra} Ugh. My CPU is running at max. I'm going to have to restart whether I like it or not. 04:07 Alexand{er|ra} Ha, the client can't even figure out how to shut down now. 04:07 Alexand{er|ra} Al least trying to shut it down dropped CPU to a little over half. 04:32 ChimneySwift does the player have to generate the world? you can generate world at full speed with minetest.emerge_area 05:38 Alexand{er|ra} ChimneySwift: Oh my, you're a life saver. I'll try that. 05:39 Alexand{er|ra} I just need the area loaded long enough for an ABM to run, so it doesn't even have to stay in memory long. 06:09 Alexand{er|ra} I don't think minetest.emerge_area() is emerging anything. I even added a callback that simply prints stuff to the chat to be sure, and nothing is printing. 06:42 Alexand{er|ra} Great. I ended the experiment for nothing. I'll have to start from the beginning. Again. 07:18 ChimneySwift 6O.o I've used it to generate a ton of map before, you could force load the chunk until you've made your checks then continue 07:28 Alexand{er|ra} ChimneySwift: It's not even loading any chunks though. 07:29 Alexand{er|ra} OH! Misunderstood. I;ll try the force-loader next then. 08:21 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Declare mapgens v5 and flat stable. Add missing carpathian (#7942) 134000735 https://git.io/fpXE6 (152018-12-05T08:18:44Z) 08:28 MinetestBot 02[git] 04CoderForTheBetter -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix player rotations (#7941) 138cc75c0 https://git.io/fpXuf (152018-12-05T08:28:09Z) 08:34 * Alexand{er|ra} starts spinning players 08:37 Xiong I've noticed three features of the Android port that have some utility; I wonder if anyone cares to comment. 08:38 Xiong (1) Autojump: a mixed blessing but usually handy. 08:43 Xiong (2) Pointing where touched, not at crosshairs: very mixed. I used to depend on slewing my head to look at blocks while eyeing the hud. Oh, that's a block of foo. Android generally requires I touch the node and even then, the debug text that names the node is cut off, unreadable. But there's an advantage in placing or digging off-axis while walking and keeping axis aligned. 08:50 Xiong (3) Creeping only to edge of block: I'd like to know if this is specific to Android or part of the changes master mt has made in the past few years. Formerly, creeping allowed to go past the edge just a tad, actually overhanging it... I could hang on by one toe and, say, place a block. And releasing the creep key, fall straight down. Now when I release creep, I stay on the upper edge... and can't creep so far. I think this is an i 08:53 Xiong Overall, mt on Android stinks but then, most stuff on Android stinks. Don't think it's even an engineering issue but a basic limitation of a handheld device. This game just bangs hard into those limitations. 13:33 scr267 :q 13:33 scr267 er 13:33 scr267 wrong window ignore that :-/ 13:38 rubenwardy We get it, you use vim 13:39 scr267 XD 15:11 Xiong Can anyone guess why I might be having an issue? My rubber tree trunks are not refilling after being tapped (with a tap, for latex). 15:15 Xiong I have tried several obvious experiments and a few perhaps less so. I have gone back to study-up. One source says, refills in a day; another, a few minutes; yet another, some time. I have waited over a realtime day and several hours of play. I have an admin anchor set nearby, enabled and set to a more than sufficient radius... and checked to see it works. 15:17 Xiong I have frozen time into eternal day and set it to cycle 1 game day per realtime minute. I have replaced the block under a rubber tree block with dirt. 15:19 Xiong My newest try is to tap a natural tree, which I did not plant and have never touched before. I tapped just 5 blocks. I'll check after running game awhile. In fact, I'll go stand there and let game run while I pick my nose. 15:34 Xiong Nothing. In years past, I've built a pile of cut blocks, tapped them, and they've refilled within a reasonable time. I don't recall any specific gotcha about it. 15:36 * twoelk wonders how picked Xiong's nose might be by now 15:38 Xiong Ha! 15:38 twoelk struck blood or rubber? 15:38 Xiong Just now, I noticed one natural block refill before my eye. 15:39 Xiong Two of five refilled in less than 20 realtime min. 15:45 Xiong The latex "farm" is unaffected, still all empty. 15:51 Xiong Now all five naturals refilled. WTF? Did someone decide to obstruct latex farming and force players to work natural trees only? Hopefully a rubber tree plantation is okay, just not a wall of cut blocks. 15:52 * Xiong goes to peek moretrees source 16:02 Xiong Ha! 16:05 Xiong Before peeking in the back of the book I decided on another whatif... attached precut rubber tree leaves to the block wall... just a few in a row. Now some blocks have refilled... quickly, too. There's built-in uncertainty in the refill time, of course. I'm waiting to see if I can pick out the radius of effect. 16:23 Xiong If anyone cares about the details... two walls, each 5 wide by 10 tall. Control wall still no refill; 5 leaf blocks on first wall, 10 trunk blocks refilled... no pattern. 16:23 Xiong Clearly somebody is checking for rubber tree leaves. 16:28 twoelk so I can't just tap my log hut - sounds legit 16:28 twoelk except maybe if I have a roof made of leaves 16:29 scr267 VanessaE: what's the license and original author of the plasmascreen mod? Is that you? I'm just checking because I need to fork in order to make a train operations centre with plasma screens that show specific things. 16:29 Xiong Yes, semi-realistic. 16:31 Xiong The radius of effect seems to be 3. That is, I placed leaves in a horizontal row and some blocks in that row refilled... also some in the three rows below and above, with no refilling outside that band. 16:32 VanessaE scr267: I don't remember off hand 16:32 VanessaE but it's probably in the commit history 16:32 scr267 VanessaE: No worries, I will re-base off your latest and I'll go from your license. 16:32 scr267 Thanks :() 16:32 scr267 :) 16:32 VanessaE but THOSE plasma screens aren't appropriate for an in-train display 16:32 scr267 It's not for in train 16:32 scr267 it's for the operations centre 16:33 VanessaE oh right. Still, they do nothing but show animated textures. better you should use a digilines LCD 16:33 scr267 mostly I'm just going to modify the textures... One screen will specifically have a single texture showing a train map 16:33 scr267 Oh? 16:33 scr267 hum... They are much smaller though 16:33 VanessaE or maybe one of the "highway" signs in street_signs mod 16:33 VanessaE those go as big as 3x2 nodes 16:33 Xiong But wait. Refilling slower than natural tree. As if... each leaf block has an additive effect. So I just went and covered the wall, on one side. 16:33 VanessaE though they aren't digilines-aware 16:34 scr267 Ok thanks for pointing that out... I will try both before I start messing about with textures :) 16:34 Xiong Hi VE. You don't have anything to do with a rubber tree block refilling after being technic:tapped, do you? 16:36 VanessaE no 16:36 VanessaE I think that part is purely technic; moretrees just spawns/grows them. 16:36 VanessaE scr267: good luck. 16:36 scr267 By the way, the highway signs - can they display images or just text? 16:37 VanessaE text and a scant handful of graphics. LED marquees can do more graphics, but are MUCH larger 16:37 scr267 Ok cool I will try it out in local :) 16:37 VanessaE the only mod I"m aware of that can do arbitrary graphics is the painting mod 16:39 scr267 ok 16:40 VanessaE pull requests welcome against street_signs and signs_lib to do arbitrary graphics ;) 16:41 scr267 That reminds me, I installed signs_lib the other day and it broke a whole bunch of other nodes including some of the lights that I had. 16:41 scr267 Kinda odd... 16:41 scr267 They became unknown nodes 16:41 scr267 Maybe those lights mod needed to be updated? 16:42 VanessaE ? 16:43 VanessaE maybe you forgot to install some dependency 16:43 VanessaE (maybe basic_materials) 16:43 scr267 Maybe... well, I need to clone my VM so that I have a proper dev environment... Once I do that I'll start prepping some proper tests :) 16:44 VanessaE (that's used by several of my mods now) 16:44 Xiong VE, that's what I thought. Scroll back and you'll see behavior new to me. I think I have a handle on it... which is good, better than poking in technic source. Not sure if moretrees is running the rubber at all, really, or if the copy technic deploys fails to check before barging in. Bet the refill code is elsewhere. 16:45 VanessaE I'm 100% sure that's not a moretrees behavior 16:45 VanessaE should be in technic 16:45 scr267 I've got basic_materials actually - very useful by the way - I like the idea... Brand new is it? 16:46 VanessaE scr267: relatively new yeah. I got tired of all the item duplication I kept seeing, so basic_materials was botn 16:46 VanessaE born* 16:46 scr267 good idea... 16:47 VanessaE the rule there is if two or more mods have or need a specific item, and it's more or less equivalent in all of them, that item may be a candidate for basic_materials 16:47 Xiong Right. So if technic wants to be able to use moretrees when it's installed... they can't just bust off your rubber trees and fork them. I need to find another file for refill code 16:47 Xiong ... not to worry! 16:47 VanessaE some compare basic_materials to mtg default, so be it :) 16:48 VanessaE Xiong: in fact at one time technic had its own rubber trees. 16:48 scr267 :) 16:48 VanessaE eventually they were removed in favor of moretrees' version. 16:49 scr267 By the way if I fork plasmascreen am I allowed to switch License to GPL? 16:49 Xiong Sure? Docs says otherwise... not that I trust docs. Docs claim technic checks for moretrees and installs "a copy" if not found. 16:50 scr267 Not quite sure if I am allowed to do that or not, or whether I even should.. 16:50 Xiong I gotta go poke the code and see myself, scratch itch. 16:51 scr267 I'll just do it as LGPL... easier that way 16:53 Xiong There's still this: https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/blob/master/technic_worldgen/rubber.lua 17:03 Xiong And there's the little wrinkle: https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic/blob/master/technic/tools/tree_tap.lua 17:06 Xiong At the end, of course: https://0bin.net/paste/7c319kJMjy4Gqz6t#WTf1EXD3tiUV9v8QwkHu4adWeTxEVKfqx2KSn1kflEJ 17:08 Xiong It's not immediately obvious that more leaves should increase the odds of success... but experiment suggests it. 17:12 Xiong The experimental wall is about 75% full now; control wall still empty. I'm going to tap dry after attaching what should be minimum leaves and we'll see. 17:20 Xiong scr267 What are you doing with your forked plasma? 17:20 scr267 Xiong: I'm building a train operations centre and I needed large screens which could display some info like: map, timetables, etc... 17:21 scr267 So I'm looking at how I might be able to modify it to fit that need 17:26 Xiong Real info or eye candy? 17:27 scr267 Xiong: Not quite sure yet... for the moment I'm starting with eye-candy as real info might end up causing lag. 17:27 * Xiong ponders the cornfield meet of minetest and openttd 17:27 scr267 XD 17:28 scr267 We had an empty building which was right above the entrance of the subway tunnels, so we decided to turn it into an operations centre for the subway... mostly it is eye-candy 17:29 scr267 So, as I added the plasma screens I thought they look cool, but they are just like screen savers... they should reflect a bit more their true purpose 17:31 VanessaE maybe fork street_signs, strip it down to just what you need, add some graphics? 17:32 VanessaE plasmascreen mod just ain't meant for status displays :) 17:32 scr267 Yeah ... true enough 17:32 scr267 I'm still testing a few things locally... I'm also stuck trying to fix a few unrelated things so its not happening right now :-/ 17:33 VanessaE well pick up the pace, damn it :) 17:33 VanessaE hop to! chop-chop! :) 17:33 scr267 LOL 17:36 Xiong I have an idea... derivative of signs: stickers. Signs look good but I think they skew toward hectoring server admins: room for considerable fine print. And as usual, the signs look really really good. I'd rather have blank stickers as flat and plain as possible, only a half-node tall, and with fatter text and a selection of useful symbols. 17:38 Xiong What I really want to say in a sticker, in daily play, is two quarter-node symbols' worth: eg, LAVA UP or STAIRS LEFT. 17:39 VanessaE there are signs mods that do that 17:39 Xiong I was delighted when signs displayed text visibly, and not just metadata seen in hud. 17:40 VanessaE imho they usuallyy look horrible, bad textures, low resolution, and not being model-based means jaggy edges 17:40 Xiong Really? Don't say "roads"; that's a heavyweight. 17:40 Xiong Oh. 17:40 VanessaE nah, I forget where I saw it 17:41 VanessaE but it's a recent one, probably forked from signs_lib 17:41 Xiong Well, I'm not hot for bum stuff. 17:44 Xiong The thing that stops me is the common use case of signing an inside corner. Stickers need to adapt to that. The other thing is stickers on chests. That's the driver for half height: I tap the chest more often than the sign. 17:46 Xiong I think signs_lib is the obvious point of departure. I wouldn't fool with scratch. 17:48 VanessaE the only way to adapt to THAT is a new sign model 17:48 VanessaE BUT 17:48 VanessaE that's easy 17:49 VanessaE see street_signs intersection sign 17:49 VanessaE it does exactly that. 17:49 VanessaE (though the positioning of the text is centered in the node rather than on the walls) 17:50 VanessaE the first line input into the text entry widget goes on the top sign, second line on the bottom sign, 90° rotated from the top 17:50 VanessaE all it took was a properly-drawn mesh for the entity 17:56 Xiong Well, another thing I can worry instead of sleeping. 17:59 Xiong I'm ending the rubber trial. The wall with exactly two leaf block is filling faster than the one well covered. I'll assume this outcome is due to chance and that any number of leaves within radius have the same effect. 18:00 Xiong Only three hours to define new undocumented feature. :) 18:05 * twoelk wonders wether he sneak the info to the wiki 18:07 twoelk hm, adding the technic modpack info to the wiki would be quite a task 18:09 rubenwardy the wiki is a weird place for mod info 18:09 rubenwardy I guess it's fine if it's contained in a dir, means you can link between things :) 18:13 rubenwardy errr 18:13 rubenwardy https://dev.minetest.net/eat 18:13 Krock nom nom 18:13 rubenwardy looool https://dev.minetest.net/minetest.raycast 18:15 Krock well, it's documented 18:15 Krock funny tho 18:16 rubenwardy wish Minetest used a format like read the docs instead of the crappy mega text file 18:16 rubenwardy ideally auto generated 19:08 scr267 rubenwardy: there are tools that do that pretty effectively...no chance of using these with minetest? 19:09 MinetestBot 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Gradle now copy most of assets 1356f22bf https://git.io/fp12y (152018-12-05T19:08:46Z) 19:51 p_gimeno Is it possible to control a door using something that is not visible? Something like, power it from the second node below it. 19:53 p_gimeno I'm making a door that closes automatically. It works, but it needs a mesecon torch next to it, which is ugly. 19:55 p_gimeno The next best option would be to use a mese block, which restricts the aesthetic. 19:57 p_gimeno Unfortunately, not even a mese block under it works. 20:25 Xiong p_gimeno I recall working that same goal, years ago; and a tough nut. I threw in a player-detect block, too. I remember I got the door working after a great deal of fussing, a tangle in the basement, and still not quite to my satisfaction. 20:28 Xiong What does work and very simple is, build a door that is shut both ways. Think of it sort of like 1/4 of a revolving door. Doors don't sweep the volume between positions so you can stand in front, tap, and bam it's closed behind you. This is an airtight solution. 20:31 Xiong We built a lab near spawn and added these always-closed doors... worked great. Eventually some idiot lagged through the wall... but security is an illusion. 20:42 p_gimeno thanks Xiong, I'll consider the options 20:46 p_gimeno hmm, a mese block under the door actually works 20:47 p_gimeno it seems I need two, to power one from the side 20:49 p_gimeno ah, a vertical mesecon can power that block 20:50 p_gimeno time to think of a layout now 20:52 p_gimeno ah dang, it depends on the kind of door, whether it accepts powering from the bottom node or not... 20:55 * p_gimeno prepares for another session of Lua debugging horror 21:09 p_gimeno it's the homedecor doors that don't admit powering from below, it seems 21:21 p_gimeno apparently, mesecons can only meseconify the default doors, but not the homedecor doors, therefore homedecor has its own support for mesecons, which doesn't include powering from below... sigh 21:30 p_gimeno Adding rules = mesecon.rules.pplate to the mesecons definition in the register_node call in homedecor solved it. Yay! 21:35 p_gimeno @VanessaE, would that be considered a bugfix in homedecor? or is it intentional or something? 21:39 VanessaE PR welcome :P 21:40 VanessaE afaik, there's no reason not to let HD's doors respond to mesecons 21:46 p_gimeno where's the repo? on GitLab? 21:47 nisa p_gimeno: nope microsofts github. 21:48 nisa p_gimeno: :( 21:48 * p_gimeno sighs 21:48 p_gimeno then I can offer a patch, but not a PR 21:49 nisa p_gimeno: ask celeron55 21:49 nisa He is the maintainer. 21:49 p_gimeno wait, I'm taking about homedecor 21:50 nisa Oh 21:50 rubenwardy p_gimeno: gitlab 21:50 p_gimeno \o/ 21:50 nisa :D 21:50 p_gimeno thanks 21:50 VanessaE https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/homedecor_modpack 21:51 nisa Homedecor is an server essentiallity for me. :D 21:52 nisa Xdecor is also cool... 21:53 nisa Where is the technic mod repo? 21:54 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest-mods/technic 21:55 nisa Ah okay. 21:55 nisa Thx 21:55 nisa Who is the maintainer/maindev of technik? 21:56 nisa *the technic mod. 21:57 VanessaE nisa: several of us contribute to it. 21:57 nisa Ah real bad angle. Looks pretty inactive. 21:57 VanessaE he died. 21:57 nisa ? 21:58 nisa Oha 21:58 nisa Okay 21:58 VanessaE RealBadAngel died a few years ago. heart attack. 21:58 nisa :( 21:58 VanessaE nore does most of the merging now 21:58 nisa Okay. Thx 21:58 VanessaE I make small contribs to it now and again 22:00 nisa Okay. 22:00 p_gimeno update: that issue was fixed this August (55fea4f), I just wasn't using a recent version 22:01 * nisa hopes some new graphical updated. 22:02 nisa *updates. 22:04 nisa The first version of minetest that i have ever played was 0.4.13 :) That is a long time ago, I was 11 years old.. idk why but I loved minetest before I played it the first time. 22:04 nisa XD 22:05 nisa Suddenly Minecraft was out-of-interrest. 22:07 nisa I think that was 2 years ago. I was playing an outdated version from ubuntus repository. :( 22:08 nisa Maybe even 2.5 years 22:41 p_gimeno "Mission Automatic Door" complete! \o/ 22:42 p_gimeno and I've just learned a new use for vertical mesecons (or maybe THE use)