Time  Nick           Message
01:20 Unarelith      VanessaE, since node-bound entities won't be a thing until a long time, would you have a Lua solution to do something like this? maybe you've already done this with signs_lib?
01:22 VanessaE       signs_lib and relatives just spawn an entity in the right spot, but they're not really "bound" to the node.  rather, the mod will search around the sign node for the entity that should be there, when needed
01:23 Unarelith      is there some issues with this solution?
01:24 Unarelith      when I say "bound" in Lua it's virtually bound, in a way that the parent node (for example the sign) should hold child entities lifetime
01:24 VanessaE       not really any more problems than with anything else that uses entities
01:25 Unarelith      I was thinking of node removal and such, is it possible that the entities sometimes survive without their parent node?
01:25 Unarelith      that would be the main issue with this type of implementation
01:26 VanessaE       they can yes
01:26 VanessaE       generally, you'd use an after dig or on destruct to delete the entity
01:27 Unarelith      but sometimes it doesn't work I guess?
01:28 VanessaE       only if your code sucks ;)
01:57 Unarelith      VanessaE, what's the meaning of the prefix ":" ? https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/signs_lib/blob/master/init.lua#L1001
03:18 scr267         Is the hometownserver gone?
03:32 VanessaE       ~tell Unarelith a colon prefix allows the engine to register an item with a name different from the mod doing the call.
03:32 ShadowBot      VanessaE: O.K.
04:16 Xiong          I had to go to source to read this text in full: "Allow splitting incoming stacks from tubes". New to me is a toggle with that. Split how? One stack distributed among all free slots?
04:18 Xiong          Don't yet see a use. Perhaps if two slots each are partially full, incoming stack fills one, then another?
04:24 Xiong          Oddly, furnace has a similar toggle... which might make sense, splitting incoming ore from fuel. But pipeworks source says "(not fuel)". Erm, there being only two input slots, splitting not fuel confuses me.
04:28 SaKeL          hi is there anywhere a current minetest tree schamtics tables (l-systems) documentation?
04:42 Hawk777        Xiong: uncertain, but does it mean that if, say, a stack of 10 arrives in the tube, and there’s only room for 5 in the inventory, with the switch turned off the stack will not go in, but with the switch turned on, 5 will go in and 5 will stay in the tube?
05:05 paramat        !tell SaKeL yes at https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/blob/master/schematic_tables.txt
05:05 MinetestBot    paramat: I'll pass that on when SaKeL is around
05:06 paramat        !tell SaKeL but they're not l-systems, they're MT schematics
05:06 MinetestBot    paramat: I'll pass that on when SaKeL is around
06:04 Xiong          Hawk777, that's another interpretation. Could mean anything, I guess.
10:58 Unarelith      VanessaE, thanks for yesterday, my barrel now perfectly works :p
10:59 Unarelith      though I had to hack a bit since the entity origin is the middle of the cube
16:07 jas_           hello!
16:14 Xiong          Has anyone a notion about technic cable plates? Just cosmetic?
16:49 Xiong          I suspect there's a mod that allows liquid to flow through the visible gap between technic cable and the next node; but that's not standard. A player can fall through that gap but water doesn't.
16:50 VanessaE       well water is a node so it would be hacky as hell to do that
17:14 Xiong          Hi VE!
17:15 VanessaE       hi
17:16 Xiong          Restarting with v6 met all my needs. Dunno if there's causation... maybe just bad luck for me a few times before
17:16 VanessaE       I blame it on black holes and witchcraft :P
17:17 Xiong          Ha, I came here and said generally how that fixed my issues and a couple people insisted v7 was okay
17:19 Xiong          I don't really care. The level of pseudorandomness in mt is such that few definite, general statements can be made about a given world.
17:19 VanessaE       yeah, the reason mainly is that v7 has its own perlin noise settings for heat and humidity, but biome_lib uses values consistent only with mgv6, so what biome_lib thinks is a desert-plains transition area might be in the middle of an ocean in reality
17:19 VanessaE       for example.
17:22 Xiong          Well dunno. I caught a rubber tree a mapblock away from 0,0,0 and sulfur's around. Good enough... and thanks, even if the science is broken.
17:22 Xiong          Ha, the PRNG god taxed me for answering my prayers
17:23 VanessaE       still waiting for someone to make the necessary adaptations for v7 :)
17:23 Xiong          ... zinc snd chromium are scarce.
17:25 Xiong          It would be nifty if a genned world could be tested for playability... without playing it
17:25 Xiong          Very tricky that.
17:26 Xiong          Hey! While you're here... what's this with basic chests and furnaces and the little toggle?
17:26 VanessaE       ?
17:28 Xiong          Must be a pipeworks thing. Similar looking toggle in autocrafter, just on-off (very nice, BTW).
17:28 VanessaE       you mean the split stacks switch?
17:29 Xiong          The text for chests and furnaces is unreadable on my phone but I checked your source. Yes, allow splitting stacks.
17:30 VanessaE       that just means if an itemstack is shoved into the chest via a tube, and there isn't room for the whole thing, it'll store what it can and split off the excess into a new stack and reject it back into the tube.
17:30 VanessaE       if disabled, the whole stack will be rejected.
17:31 Xiong          And I see (no fuel) in your code for furnace. So, toggle either way, furnace won't reload fuel until exhausted.
17:32 VanessaE       I don't remember how it works for furnaces
17:32 Xiong          No worries
17:32 Xiong          TIL... good enough.
17:35 Xiong          Also I noticed pipeworks can be configured to drop entities if they've circulated too long... by default. I turned that off. I have the game set to delete loose entities every 15 min, good for forest litter. Please tell me tube contents in motion won't get zapped?
17:36 VanessaE       afaik they won't, unless there's so many that a tube breaks.
17:36 VanessaE       then they'll "leak out"
17:36 VanessaE       at which point the engine will eventually delete them
17:37 Xiong          Well, a risk for every step we take. I disabled the intentional drop though
17:39 Xiong          I worked out my basic pw strat years ago:  Route all incoming stuff past rows of chests, sorting what matches; then back to the basement and recirculate
17:40 VanessaE       yep, that's pretty common
17:41 Xiong          The final stop before recirculation is a few anybody's chests, collect whatever missed. But just in case, recirculate. And plenty of vacuums.
17:42 Xiong          Ha, never imagined I was original. I'm an engineer. I skew hard to the middle of the road, the standard solution.
17:43 VanessaE       heh
17:43 Xiong          Never specify a 1.2K resistor if a 1K will do.
17:44 VanessaE       your OCD will not forgive you for that! :)
17:44 twoelk         just out of interest, Xiong, did you ever publish the seed and settings for your world that lacked rubber trees? It might  be of interest to others
17:45 Xiong          Mn no. But I didn't delete it... just abandoned.
17:47 Xiong          I'll... dunno, everything's illegal in Massachusetts. I mean Android. I'll see if I can dig out the seed, the mods, all the versions.
17:48 Xiong          Mn, don't wait on it. I'm still bailing after the last storm.
17:52 Xiong          Rubber wasn't the panic issue anyway. I gimmed one sapling and was okay. Man needs more cheat, doesn't deserve. But I could find no sulfur after serious look and then outright fly under cheat. If I have to stand in my workshop clicking UI for my sulfur, I might as well sit on the sidewalk next to my hat and a soggy scrap of cardboard.
17:54 Xiong          OH YEH THAT. I completely lost the thought. I have a couple simple ideas for UI; I'll post in that thread.
17:56 rubenwardy     VanessaE: why isn't the decoration system used when available?
17:56 VanessaE       because biome_lib was developed before the decoration system was created.
17:56 VanessaE       it needs adapted to use it
17:56 rubenwardy     I see
17:56 Xiong          UI is utterly essential for Android. Tricky splitting a stack.
17:57 rubenwardy     Well, it makes sense to adjust things to use the built-in system when available
17:57 VanessaE       indeed.  PRs welcome :)
17:58 Xiong          Oh and I love the autocrafter improvements. The ghost items are the elegant robust solution.
18:23 p_gimeno       I have a setup silverchest>grinder>furnace>goldchest (the > are stackwise injectors, no pipes involved). From time to time, ground material appears in the grinder's input. Is that normal?
18:24 p_gimeno       Obviously, we place no dust into the silver chest.
18:33 MinetestBot    02[git] 04juozaspo -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix Android build errors (caused by 5f1cd55) 1394f2d99 https://git.io/fp6d3 (152018-12-03T18:31:20Z)
18:53 Xiong          p_gimeno My unqualified opinion is that dust bounced. IME pipeworks is just a little susceptible to unexpected flow... tubes have no inherent direction, except for the oneway.
18:55 Xiong          If the issue persists, my experiments would involve sticking a bit of tube before the last chest... and a branch. See what drops out
18:57 Xiong          Set up two collection chests. Does one remain always empty or do dust piles stray? Change the geometry. Tubes aren't like real conveyors; funky things must be expected.
18:58 p_gimeno       so, if it is taken from one of the outputs of the grinder to exit, and it bounces, it goes to the input? that's not too nice
18:59 Xiong          I have often had bounce issues. Sometimes the quick fix works: make a path for recirculation.
18:59 Xiong          Well, nothing goes into the output, right?
19:00 p_gimeno       in my mind, it's the output that's connected to the pipe, that's why it didn't make too much sense :)
19:01 p_gimeno       if it bounces, it should go back to the output, or if that's not possible, it should stay in the pipe
19:01 Xiong          Set up a simple tube layout... not too basic, a few corners, injector and chest. Stare at it while it runs
19:01 p_gimeno       that's the intuitive behaviour
19:01 Xiong          ... see if you bouncing.
19:02 p_gimeno       would a one way pipe help in this case?
19:02 Xiong          But... the rule is... whatever comes in, goes into the input.
19:02 Xiong          I like oneways. Good insurance anytime.
19:03 p_gimeno       what makes a pipe blow out?
19:04 Xiong          But the bounce then rebounces off the oneway. Yes? So the robust setup adds a little pipe for recirculation
19:05 p_gimeno       I have not checked one way pipes yet
19:06 Xiong          I dunno. But I understand that the underlying mechanism is not robust. Entities are very basic original gimmicks. It's as if a god were responsible for making physics work... for each object, every millisecond.
19:06 VanessaE       p_gimeno: if more than 20 items/sec flow through a tube, that tube will be replaced with a broken tube and the items will leak out.  it's a lag and low fps preventative.
19:06 VanessaE       s/items/stacks/
19:06 VanessaE       (20 per sec, if I remember right)
19:07 VanessaE       because players have a tendency to build tube lines that have no input rate limits or proper overflow protection
19:07 VanessaE       so shit starts bouncing back and forth, stacking up
19:07 Xiong          I have seen entities fall through floors, accelerate, spin madly, and otherwise defy Newton. I'm impressed pipeworks works at all.
19:07 VanessaE       until there's like thousands flowing in a given tubeline
19:08 VanessaE       that's why I added the limiter
19:09 p_gimeno       thank you VanessaE
19:09 VanessaE       yw
19:10 Xiong          Yes, p_gimeno, really important to think it out. You slap a mesecons sig on an injector, the tube starts shooting blocks... and the tube destination can't accept them all.
19:10 VanessaE       yup
19:11 VanessaE       a tube breaks, they pour out, engine deletes them.
19:11 Xiong          I find a good way to tame a system is to divide the clock. Half speed may work fine.
19:11 VanessaE       Xiong: or, put a trash can at the very end of the tubeline
19:11 VanessaE       whatever can't be stored gets deleted.
19:11 Xiong          No!
19:11 VanessaE       good for machines that produce continuous output.
19:12 Xiong          That's my mese. Hands off.
19:12 VanessaE       heh
19:12 Xiong          I told you, I disabled that drop setting.
19:13 VanessaE       broken tubes are a different matter, not the same as the pop-out settint
19:13 VanessaE       setting*
19:14 Xiong          I can live with diamonds missing until I dig them out of the alloy furnace. Do not want to watch as they skid on floor, out window, and to sea bottom.
19:15 Xiong          The setting is not a trash can, either. The only things in common are my miserliness and petty fears.
19:18 Xiong          But seriously p_gimeno... the cool thing about pipeworks-mesecons-technic is that they usually but not always work. You have an Opportunity to improve your troubleshooting skills. ;D
19:19 p_gimeno       just to be sure, do one-way tubes prevent bouncing?
19:19 Xiong          No.
19:20 Xiong          One ways make bounced items rebounce.
19:20 p_gimeno       ?!? :/
19:20 p_gimeno       ah, that's what I meant
19:20 p_gimeno       they prevent the item from going back to the original container, yes?
19:20 Xiong          IME.
19:21 Xiong          They also prevent your loot from teleporting back down.
19:22 Xiong          Plain tubes are bidirectional, after all. But the one-way is just insurance. Find the cause of the bottleneck.
19:23 p_gimeno       I think the cause is obvious in the above setup
19:23 Xiong          ?
19:24 Xiong          I assume your chest isn't full.
19:24 p_gimeno       nah
19:25 Xiong          Well... let me get back to !work.
19:27 p_gimeno       the problem is that the furnace is still busy, and the grinder isn't filled back with an item (this happens right when the silver chest gets empty)
19:27 p_gimeno       so the furnace bounces the item back to the grinder, and when the grinder's slot is empty, this happens
21:15 Alexand{er|ra} I'm working on a mod, and I've got a couple issues. Any ideas? First, is seems that Minetest 0.4.17 and Minetest 5.0.0 create inventory cube images of differing size. So if I want to support 5.0.0, I need a way to detect which version of the game I'm running. Second, I need to add images to the HUD. I want them to display next to the mini map. However, the mini map's exact position doesn't seem to be
21:15 Alexand{er|ra} knowable. I can get the HUD looking right for one window size, but then I change my window size and it breaks. Different players use different window sizes, so hard-coded positions don
21:15 Alexand{er|ra} don't seem to work well.
21:17 Alexand{er|ra} I've tried using position and I've tried using offset. Both break when the window size changes, due to the mini map seeming to use neither.
21:31 VanessaE       Alexand{er|ra}: detecting the version is easy: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/hotbar/blob/master/init.lua#L1-2
21:31 rubenwardy     that's a hack
21:31 VanessaE       yes, but it works.
21:31 rubenwardy     that's the exact reason why it took so long for such a method to be added
21:33 VanessaE       well, 5.0.0 does some thing differently than 0.4.x, that aren't detectable through other means (like the features thing), so what other way do you suggest?
21:33 VanessaE       things*
21:33 Alexand{er|ra} Thank you, VanessaE!
21:34 VanessaE       and with 0.4.x being relegated to maintenance/bug-fix only, just checking if the user's not on 0.4.x is enough.
21:34 Alexand{er|ra} Yeah, for sure. I didn't realise 5.0.0 was doing things differently until I tried running 0.1.17-based code on it.
21:34 rubenwardy     I guess it's good enough
21:34 rubenwardy     however, make sure to support higher major versions
21:34 VanessaE       look at the code.
21:35 rubenwardy     something like    :sub(1,2) ~= "0."    would be best
21:35 VanessaE       it's "is not 0.4.", not "is 5.0.0"
21:35 rubenwardy     right
21:35 rubenwardy     btw, you can do this:    (mtver.string:sub(1, 4) ~= "0.4.") and 32 or 23
21:35 MinetestBot    02[git] 04stujones11 -> 03minetest/minetest: Re-master and improve touchscreen gui icons (#7931) 1348208c1 https://git.io/fpiLT (152018-12-03T21:35:31Z)
21:36 p_gimeno       damn Vanessa, I can't use your mod with 0.3 :)
21:36 VanessaE       rubenwardy: yeah, I know.  but figured I should cache the version info in fact I need it somewhere else.  call it habit :)
21:36 rubenwardy     huh?
21:36 Alexand{er|ra} Oh, there's a minetest.get_version()? Now I feel foolish.
21:36 rubenwardy     my suggestion is equivalent to yours, just better formed
21:37 VanessaE       oh nevermind--  I was reading it wrong
21:37 VanessaE       yeah s:sub() vs string.sub(s...)
21:37 rubenwardy     https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/9864071eedc3b5fb2224937005de48c4
21:37 rubenwardy     lol
21:37 VanessaE       also habit.
21:37 rubenwardy     oops, update
21:39 p_gimeno       I did this some time ago, to get a code-friendly version number: https://notabug.org/pgimeno/Gists/src/minetest--generate-version-number/version_check_snippet.lua
21:43 Alexand{er|ra} Okay, this now works in 0.4.17 and 5.0.0-dev, at least when using their respective window sizes. Now I just need to figure out how to properly position things around the mini map.