Time  Nick             Message
00:01 Alexand{er|ra}   It looks like there's not a way with the current API. Too bad.
00:02 rubenwardy       Unarelith: use a collision boz
00:02 rubenwardy       -z+x
00:03 Alexand{er|ra}   rubenwardy: How do you do that? I don't see it in the API doc.
00:04 rubenwardy       Search for "collision_box" in the API docs https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt
00:04 rubenwardy       Can't link from my phone
00:08 Alexand{er|ra}   Firefox keeps crashing so I can't get a good look at it.
00:08 Jordach          https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/items/node_drawtypes.html#nodebox Alexand{er|ra}
00:08 Alexand{er|ra}   It looks like it's a feature in the development version though, so that's something to look forward to. It's not in my 0.4.17-based doc though.
00:10 Alexand{er|ra}   Jordach: I'm not sure what you're trying to point out on that page. Collision isn't even mentioned.
00:10 Jordach          it's missing quite a bit of stuff, but is comprehensive otherwise
00:10 Alexand{er|ra}   And ... another browser crash. Stupid Firefox.
00:11 Alexand{er|ra}   It's missing the one feature we were discussing though; the only feature needed at the moment.
00:11 Jordach          https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/stable-0.4/doc/lua_api.txt#L4029
00:11 Jordach          that only applies to entities :thinking:
00:12 Alexand{er|ra}   I'm guessing that's the "collision_box"? Unarelith: Check that link for instructions, but they only work in the development version, not the current version.
00:12 Alexand{er|ra}   Right. It's only entities that Unarelith is having a problem with though.
00:12 Alexand{er|ra}   Specifically, item entities.
00:13 Alexand{er|ra}   Like dropped items, I mean.
00:13 rubenwardy       Are you using an outdated version of Firefox?
00:13 rubenwardy       I don't have any crashes
00:14 Unarelith        Alexand{er|ra}, actually, I think Minecraft has the same problem. The mod Ex Nihilo has a similar barrel and I think they don't drop the item because of that issue
00:14 Jordach          they also dont pick up items dropped onto the barrel, only through hoppers and pipes
00:15 Unarelith        true :/
00:16 Alexand{er|ra}   rubenwardy: I'm using the version packaged with Debian 9. It usually only crashes if I open a link from WeeChat. Not sure why. If I open a link from WeeChat, I have about half a minute before Firefox crashes on me.
02:20 Pilcrow182       hmm, it's kind of late. I wonder if anyone's online and not AFK right now.
02:22 rubenwardy       the world is wide
02:23 Pilcrow182       hey rubenwardy, how you doing today?
02:23 rubenwardy       good thanks! you?
02:25 Pilcrow182       I'm great. Spending 5 days in St Louis Missouri for Thanksgiving, as my mom's boyfriend's family wanted to meet me and my sisters.
02:27 Alexand{er|ra}   I'm online. I have too much studying to do to leave my machine for now.
02:27 Pilcrow182       internet problems, puzzlecube?
02:27 Alexand{er|ra}   I really should get dinner on the stove though ...
02:27 * Alexand{er|ra} goes off to see what's in the refrigerator
02:29 Alexand{er|ra}   Hmm. These cashews will do for now.
02:29 Pilcrow182       Yeah, I feel you, Alexand{er|ra}. What are you studying, if you don't mind my asking?
02:29 * Alexand{er|ra} returns to the laptop
02:30 Alexand{er|ra}   Pilcrow182: Computers. CS 3303: Data Structures and CS 4402: Comparative Programming Languages.
02:31 Alexand{er|ra}   I was supposed to study Web stuff this term, but my advisor goofed off for about a week instead of helping with a registration issue, so the course filled up on me.
02:34 Pilcrow182       Ugh, I don't know about you but I hated web stuff (was going to university for IT: Programmer/Analyst myself, but didn't finish)
02:36 Alexand{er|ra}   Pilcrow182: In my last Web-related course, they taught us bad practices. I was appalled. This is a big part of why standards aren't followed! Schools aren't teaching standards compliance! If the course was taught correctly though, I would have enjoyed it.
02:36 Alexand{er|ra}   I'd really enjoy learning how to make my website less bad.
02:37 Alexand{er|ra}   It's a bit bland, to be honest.
02:39 Pilcrow182       Heh. Well, I don't have a website (or a need for one) myself, so I get by on what little I know of html
02:40 Pilcrow182       I'm more interested in games/mods and local tools (shell scripting, mostly, though I can program in a few *real* languages when I need to do something complicated))
02:41 Alexand{er|ra}   I'd love to work on mods more. I usually don't have much time for that though.
02:42 Alexand{er|ra}   I am fitting a small modding project in on my breaks between reading assignments today though.
02:43 Pilcrow182       Oh, I suppose I lied; I *do* have a github.io page, but that's really as simplistic a 'website' as you can get -- a blank white page with some text and a few links to various other projects...  :P
02:46 Pilcrow182       Alexand{er|ra}: yeah, I was actually reading some of the IRC logs earlier, when you were talking with Unarelith about tools that turn stone to gravel, etc.
02:48 Alexand{er|ra}   Yeah. My current step is to fix up my material-renewal mod. I don't like the random cobble-sometimes-drops-sand-or-gravel thing, so I'm setting up dedicated tools for conversion when players actually want to produce those materials.
02:48 Unarelith        btw I made barrels and crooks, my modpack is on the forum now :p https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21465
02:49 Alexand{er|ra}   After that, I've got to work on a system to hack Minetest's 15-colour dye system to allow users to choose colours from Minetest's 256-colour palet system.
02:49 Alexand{er|ra}   *palette
02:50 Alexand{er|ra}   Unarelith: Nice!
02:50 Alexand{er|ra}   It looks like your mod's got the same basic idea as mine: material renewal.
02:50 Alexand{er|ra}   You go about it differently though.
02:51 Alexand{er|ra}   I like your composting barrel.
02:51 Unarelith        Thanks, but there's no timer for composting yet and they can't hold liquids ^^'
02:51 Alexand{er|ra}   I had set up a compost node in my last release, though I'm removing it in the coming update. I think adding nodes is beyond the scope of what my mod is aiming for.
02:52 Alexand{er|ra}   Liquids? Why would you compost liquids?
02:52 Unarelith        I want to make barrels compatible with rain, to gather water
02:52 Alexand{er|ra}   And Firefox crashed again. Because of course it would.
02:52 Alexand{er|ra}   OH! Nice.
02:53 Alexand{er|ra}   Is that how you're renewing fresh water ("river water")?
02:53 Unarelith        And I'll make stone barrels to contain lava later
02:53 Unarelith        I still don't get the difference between "water" and "river water" in Minetest
02:54 Alexand{er|ra}   River water doesn't renew, and has a shorter flow range.
02:54 Alexand{er|ra}   Personally, I think it's overkill for its purpose, but that's not my decision to make.
02:56 Unarelith        I see, but this barrel feature is specific to a skyblock I guess, since the goal is to gather the first buckets of water this way
02:56 Alexand{er|ra}   I actually tried using seawater in rivers a few times. It works well. It overflows in a couple places, but not in a way that looks unnatural.
02:56 Alexand{er|ra}   Ah, I see.
02:57 Alexand{er|ra}   I've never played a sky blocks game, but I think I get the gist of what they are.
02:58 Alexand{er|ra}   What's the plan for the lava barrels? How does the lava get in there?
03:00 Unarelith        There will be another node to introduce first: the crucible. Its goal is to melt Cobblestone to make Lava.
03:00 Unarelith        Then the Lava can be stored in the Stone Barrels, and you could probably make obsidian in the barrel by flowing water upon it
03:01 Alexand{er|ra}   Oh, nice.
03:01 Unarelith        I think my subgame will be a skyblock game, since it's the easier way to give a small modded Minecraft feel to Minetest and attract people (and modders) since the 5.0.0-dev engine looks pretty good (which is what attracted me when I saw MineClone2, elepower, witt, gravelsieve, etc...)
03:02 Alexand{er|ra}   I was considering an option to melt cobblestone into lava myself, but never got the details sorted out in a way I liked.
03:02 Alexand{er|ra}   Yeah, the dev engine is looking pretty nice.
03:03 Unarelith        The Ex Nihilo way to cobblestone melting is to put either a torch, lava or fire under the crucible to heat the cobblestone at according speeds
03:04 Pilcrow182       Unarelith: you don't actually need to hack the 15-colour dye system; VanessaE's lovely Unified Dyes mod goes up to 256 colors, apparently. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2178
03:06 Unarelith        Pilcrow182, I think you meant to mention Alexand{er|ra}
03:08 Pilcrow182       Oh, yes, sorry Unarelith
03:08 Alexand{er|ra}   Pilcrow182: The goal is to depend only on the default system. I actually have a very nice palette-based dye system for my currently-incomplete game, which provides all 256 colours.
03:08 Alexand{er|ra}   Also, if I used VanessaE's system, I'd need to be sure her dies lined up with my own palette's colours, which may be even more complicated if our colours don't match.
03:09 Pilcrow182       heh, that's true. Just wanted to point her mod out in case you didn't know it existed.
03:09 Alexand{er|ra}   I could create a custom palette from her dies, but them I'd need separate versions of my dyable item mod for my game and for Minetest Game.
03:10 Alexand{er|ra}   I knew it existed, though last I knew, it didn't have quite 256 dyes. It's nice to know that it does now.
03:10 Alexand{er|ra}   I'll probably take a look later to see if she uses a palette like my dyes do.
03:11 Alexand{er|ra}   If so, I might discontinue my dyes.
03:11 Alexand{er|ra}   Well, assuming hers has good colour mixing like mine does.
03:11 Alexand{er|ra}   I put a lot of effort into making sure all dyes could be mixed in a sane, yet automated way.
03:13 Pilcrow182       yeah, I used it long ago when it didn't have so many colors, but apparently her mod is configurable now; the forum page states that it "expands the standard dye set from 15 colors to 32, 197, or 256"
03:14 Alexand{er|ra}   Oh, what ... She uses a separate palette for each class of colours. For example, a palette for grey dyes and a palette for cyan dyes.
03:14 Alexand{er|ra}   This is nothing like what I need for Palette Game.
03:15 Alexand{er|ra}   I'll stick with my own dyes then. Well, and the Minetest Game dyes for compatibility with Minetest Game.
03:18 Pilcrow182       Yeah, I see that. Interesting, but I'd want more color mixing myself, as well, if I were trying to make a mod/modpack/game that really relied on color
03:20 Alexand{er|ra}   I've got that. I was actually going to release it for Minetest Game and have it replace the original dyes, but I thought it'd cause too much breakage in other mods. Other mods expect the original dyes to be in place.
03:20 Alexand{er|ra}   But if I release my dyes to work alongside the 15-dye system, I've still got to account for the fifteen dyes, which is a mess in my mods.
03:21 Alexand{er|ra}   It really works better to only have one or the other.
03:21 Alexand{er|ra}   I'd love to know why there are fifteen dyes though. Why not an even sixteen?
03:22 Pilcrow182       I've actually done quite a bit of palette work for other projects. My favorite of my own is a 774 palette -- 7 levels of red and green, 4 levels of blue, 10 grays (12 including black and white) and a small complimentary color scale for pure red/green/blue/cyan/magenta/yellow.
03:22 Alexand{er|ra}   I'd love to pull request to replace the old dye system, but it'd break older mods, and I think the team wants to avoid doing that.
03:22 Pilcrow182       This is the one I was talking about: https://files.catbox.moe/flud7h.png
03:23 Alexand{er|ra}   It'd break older worlds, too; all previously-placed wool would turn white, for example.
03:23 Unarelith        do you know if its possible to affect texture nodes like this? https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/skyfactory/images/1/19/2014-03-24_12.49.02.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20140324120721
03:24 Alexand{er|ra}   Pilcrow182: Nice! I like it.
03:24 Unarelith        *node textures sorry
03:24 Pilcrow182       Yeah, I suppose you *could* alias all those different old wool colors to similar ones of your own palette though, if you didn't want to break older worlds
03:25 Alexand{er|ra}   Unarelith: That looks like a basic palette swap. Minetest can mostly do that, though there are limitations that make colours of differing brightness not come out as expected.
03:25 Alexand{er|ra}   Pilcrow182: No. I can't alias the wool to different colours, due to limitations in the engine.
03:26 Alexand{er|ra}   My wool has one node. You can't alias a node to a node plus palette index. You can only alias to the new node, and the previous param2 (set to "0" on wool) becomes the new palette index.
03:27 Alexand{er|ra}   So all old wool nodes use colour #0. Originally, I had #0 be black, but to deal with another engine bug, I set it to white now.
03:27 ShadowBot        Alexand{er|ra}: Error: Delimiter not found in "HTTP Error 404: Not Found"
03:27 ShadowBot        Alexand{er|ra}: Error: Delimiter not found in "HTTP Error 404: Not Found"
03:28 Alexand{er|ra}   So all aliased old wool turns white.
03:28 Alexand{er|ra}   The same applies to any previously-crafted dyes.
03:29 Alexand{er|ra}   You've got a chest of rainbow dyes? Not any more. Now you've got a chest or white dye.
03:29 Pilcrow182       Unarelith: If your node uses a mesh, you can alter the texture for each individual instance of it. This is what sofar's 'frame' mod does. Otherwise, you can register a new node and swap the old one for the new one with an ABM.
03:30 Alexand{er|ra}   I don't know how to use meshes, and haven't managed to find a good tutorial. Ad for the registering separate nodes, it defeats the purpose of the palette. I might as well just keep the separate nodes at that point and not use a palette at all.
03:30 Pilcrow182       Alexand{er|ra}: Ah, yeah, I was still thinking of the old non-meshnode way of doing things, where each color has to be registered as a separate node...
03:32 Alexand{er|ra}   Pilcrow182: When you say "alter the texture", do you mean the basic palette application, or are you able to use separate textures when you use meshnodes?
03:32 Pilcrow182       It's been a few years since I was into minetest, and I'm finally now getting back to it. Didn't know you could apply a palette directly; I thought they had to be either individual nodes or a mesh.
03:33 * rubenwardy     is currently working on https://rubenwardy.com/capitalism_game/
03:33 rubenwardy       https://i.rubenwardy.com/dPeIV.png
03:33 Alexand{er|ra}   Yeah, we've got working palettes now. I use the term "working" loosely though.
03:34 Alexand{er|ra}   rubenwardy: Nice! So what's the goal of the game? To have the most money?
03:34 rubenwardy       Basically, yeah
03:35 Alexand{er|ra}   Pilcrow182: So does that mean that when using a mesh, each node can have a different texture?
03:35 Alexand{er|ra}   I'll have to check that out some time.
03:36 Pilcrow182       Alexand{er|ra}: Yeah, apparently you can register a meshnode with multiple 'material' textures, and overlay a different texture on an individual node. See sofar's frames mod: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=16585
03:36 rubenwardy       It'll be a server soon ™
03:38 Pilcrow182       Alexand{er|ra}: oh, wait, it looks like he *does* register each node separately...  :/
03:38 Alexand{er|ra}   Oh, sweet. I can check that out on the server then.
03:39 Alexand{er|ra}   Oh wait. No I can't. My firewall blocks Minetest, so I only have local Minetest games.
03:39 Alexand{er|ra}   Pilcrow182: Darn. That'd be a cool feature to have.
03:39 Pilcrow182       *ahem* I didn't notice this before: https://github.com/minetest-mods/frame/blob/master/init.lua#L154
03:40 Pilcrow182       so it looks like the only way to do it for individual nodes is to use entities, which would slow things down a lot...
03:41 Alexand{er|ra}   Entities have a tendency to disappear too, in my experience.
03:41 Alexand{er|ra}   Some people try to use them for letters on signs, for example, and the signs frequently lose their text.
03:42 Pilcrow182       now I'm a little disappointed, myself; I thought overlaying textures on meshnodes was some cool new feature implemented after I stopped playing a few years ago...  :(
03:43 Pilcrow182       oh, Unarelith, if you're trying to copy ex nihilo, you might be interested in a minetest game I've been making.
03:44 Pilcrow182       I started it in Minetest 0.4.8, but have been trying to update it to Minetest 5 lately.
03:45 Pilcrow182       It's called Dustworld, and was meant to copy the Minecraft Crash Landing modpack seen here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPysqvHgU8RsJSm8CWulZPNVYvJd4UMgK
03:45 Alexand{er|ra}   I swear. There's a Minetest 0 and a Minetest 5, but no Minetests 1, 2, 3, and 4? This is madness.
03:45 Unarelith        Alexand{er|ra}, agreed
03:46 jacky            some things aren't meant to be
03:46 Alexand{er|ra}   I guess ...
03:47 Pilcrow182       Alexand{er|ra}: yeah, it's weird. I wasn't aware of the change in version naming scheme until recently, but apparently they're just trying to drop the "0." from the beginning; 0.5.0 becomes 5.0.0...
03:47 Unarelith        Pilcrow182, I'm making a similar game too, its called Techtest and it will probably be a skyblock or a stoneblock gathering most FTB-like mods that exist in minetest
03:48 Unarelith        https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=21456
03:48 Alexand{er|ra}   Pilcrow182: Yeah. My guess is that they got tired of idiots that kept talking about Minetest 4.x, when it's 0.4.x. By dropping the leading zero, everyone will be on the same page.
03:48 Pilcrow182       Anyways, my game pack is finally online, so you can check it out if you like. It has a mod inside of it called 'survivalist' that is like an expanded Ex Nihilo. https://github.com/Pilcrow182/dustworld
03:49 Pilcrow182       It's not well-tested though, so I haven't released it on the forums yet.
03:50 rubenwardy       !dev Changelog
03:50 MinetestBot      "Note that not all changes made to the code between releases are listed here." - http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog
03:50 rubenwardy       Explains the version scheme change
03:52 Alexand{er|ra}   Should be an iteresting read, if my browser can avoid crashing long enough.
03:53 Alexand{er|ra}   "Shows that we aim to keep inter-version compatibility"
03:53 Unarelith        Pilcrow182, daaamn, its the same thing x)
03:53 Alexand{er|ra}   I'm not sure how it shows that. The other reasons seem reasonable though.
03:54 Pilcrow182       By my Dustworld being 'not well tested' I mean many of the mods are outdated (as I said, some of them were programmed as far back as 0.4.8) and I haven't made absolute sure there are no problems in 5.0.0. It's at least *mostly* usable in its current state...  :P
03:57 Unarelith        Pilcrow182, on the latest commit there's some issue with inventory buttons
03:58 Unarelith        but it's funny we have the game goal: reproducing a Minecraft-tech modpack experience
03:58 Unarelith        *same goal
04:00 Unarelith        Actually a lot of the mods in Crash Landing modpack are the kind of mod I want in my game, and we're starting to get Minetest alternatives to some of them (elepower, melterns, witt, unifiedinventory) so it's becoming possible
04:06 Pilcrow182       Unarelith: Yeah, I know it has some inventory glitches. I've been fixing some problems, but haven't pushed my changes onto github yet. Also made an auto-sieve machine to go along with the auto-grinder and auto-compressor. Works well, so I should update github soon.
04:12 Pilcrow182       Unarelith: actually, I just cloned the github version of dustworld to take a look at it, and there isn't a glitch with the inventory buttons on my machine; they look like this: https://files.catbox.moe/vvp005.png
04:14 Unarelith        Pilcrow182, the issue happens when I click on some buttons
04:15 Unarelith        btw, I think you may already know about it, but checkout elepower: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20320
04:15 Unarelith        it has a power api
04:15 Unarelith        and you'll probably want to add machines
04:18 Pilcrow182       Yes, I've seen elepower and have been considering using it. It didn't exist when I first made Dustworld, so I already have a different machine system (coal-powered machines and 'fuelducts' to give them fuel), but adding 'electric' machines too would be cool.
04:22 Unarelith        I think I'll use elepower fluid/power api for all Techtest machines and since all the current mods aren't compatible I'll probably make my own mods to replace them
04:23 Unarelith        Pilcrow182, so if you use these apis too we could write each our own tech mods and share them between our games since they will be fully compatible
04:25 Pilcrow182       Unarelith: True, and it'd be fun to make electric versions of my coal-powered machines
04:27 Unarelith        Though there is a problem, my Ex Nihilo-like modpack conflicts with your survivalist mod :/
04:28 Pilcrow182       Well, for now I'm focusing on making everything work right; I'll add more mods like elepower and maybe Mobs Redo later
04:29 Pilcrow182       I also may split the coal-powered machines out of survivalist so they can be used with other mods (including your Ex Nihilo-like modpack). But that's a project for the future.
04:32 Unarelith        that could be nice, but I meant that the features sieve/composting barrel/crucible are the same between our mods, and I think that's dumb
04:33 Unarelith        I would have liked to know about your mod before, I would have contribute to it instead of making my own :p
04:38 Unarelith        but it's not a big deal after all since making my modpack is teaching me Minetest modding basics (hopefully I was already familiar with Lua *-*)
04:42 Pilcrow182       Unarelith: Yeah, my gamepack was unreleased and never finished, and I finally picked it up again about a month ago. It's not just you; NO ONE knew about it since it wasn't online when I was working on it a few years ago...  :P
04:43 Pilcrow182       Oh, btw, I just now pushed through a massive update with all of my bug fixes and improvements. Should be much better than the version you downloaded before...  :P
04:47 Unarelith        Pilcrow182, I don't have the content of the folder named flying_saucer :/
04:53 Pilcrow182       Unarelith: ah, stupid github. when it saw flying_saucer's .git folder, it turned it into a symlink instead of a regular folder. I undid the last commit and force-updated it without that .git folder now...
04:53 Pilcrow182       ^ so it should work normally, just download again...
04:55 Pilcrow182       I'm not good with git/github yet. there should be a way to make it 'ignore' that .git folder, but I don't know how.
04:56 Unarelith        try using a .gitignore, maybe it will work
04:58 Pilcrow182       That might cause problems with the flying_saucer mod when I try to update it individually, though (since I released it standalone: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=335573)
04:59 Pilcrow182       I'll have to do more research on how to use a .gitignore file
05:53 VanessaE         Pilcrow182, Alexand{er|ra}: fwiw, unified dyes expands the number of colors according to the type of node (engine limitation), and only splits the colors into multiple palettes for the 197-color type.
06:10 Pilcrow182       VanessaE: Yeah, I see that now. I'd love to have something with more color *mixing*, and that's more what Alexand{er|ra} is going for, but unified dyes wasn't really made for that, by the looks of it.
06:10 VanessaE         I'm not sure I follow
06:10 VanessaE         UD has plenty of recipes for crafting new colors.
06:16 Pilcrow182       oh, I looked at that wrong. I was seeing the multiple shades of single colors and thinking that was the extended palette, but you did say it was for the 197-color type...
06:16 Pilcrow182       I must be tired. It's been a long thanksgiving, and it's midnight here...  :P
06:17 VanessaE         the extended palette is so-named because there used to be only 89 colors, is all.
06:28 Pilcrow182       VanessaE: since the organisation is completely different, I'm wondering: for the extended palette, did you just eyeball it, or use a standard/mathematical one?
06:28 Pilcrow182       judging by the fact that you have 16 grays, my guess is that it's a mathematical 6-8-5 palette (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_palettes#6-8-5_levels_RGB)
06:28 VanessaE         it's math, but HSV-based.
06:30 Pilcrow182       Ah, I didn't think about doing it that way. That *would* really change the order compared to RGB-based math...  :P
06:31 Alexand{er|ra}   VanessaE: Okay, so in 256-colour mode, it uses a single palette? That's good to know. Does it implement dye-mixing in a way where all 256 dyes can be mixed?
06:31 VanessaE         Alexand{er|ra}: yes, and yes.
06:32 VanessaE         if by "mixed" you mean to craft any color from any other 2 or more colors in a meaningful way
06:32 Alexand{er|ra}   Okay, awesome. I'll look into using that then, especially for the Minetest Game versions of my mods.
06:32 VanessaE         (so don't expect to make white dye from black dye :P )
06:32 Alexand{er|ra}   VanessaE: I mean any two colours can be mixed in a meaningful way.
06:32 VanessaE         yep.
06:32 Alexand{er|ra}   Okay, sweet.
06:33 VanessaE         https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=28399
06:33 Pilcrow182       But can I make purpleish-green?  :P
06:33 VanessaE         https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/unifieddyes/blob/master/init.lua#L1317
06:33 Alexand{er|ra}   It sounds like you've already put a lot of thought into how dyes should be then.
06:33 VanessaE         purplish-green would be greyish :)
06:34 Pilcrow182       obviously I'm joking, lol
06:34 VanessaE         though that does mean I should add some more crafts for the greys (they're
06:34 VanessaE         ..
06:34 VanessaE         they're all made from black or white)
06:37 Alexand{er|ra}   I do see one thing missed though: when index #0 isn't white, held itemstacks that somehow lack a palette index will be displayed as white, but will function as whatever index #0 is.
06:37 ShadowBot        Alexand{er|ra}: Error: Delimiter not found in "HTTP Error 404: Not Found"
06:37 ShadowBot        Alexand{er|ra}: Error: Delimiter not found in "HTTP Error 404: Not Found"
06:38 VanessaE         in UD, I have an extra bit of code to handle that.
06:40 Alexand{er|ra}   It makes it difficult for people trying to use that palette though. They either have to deal with the (engine) bug, or write similar code to compensate, on every paletted item.
06:40 VanessaE         https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/unifieddyes/blob/master/init.lua#L164
06:42 Alexand{er|ra}   Huh. If I understand that, it applied itself to every node that uses your palette. Never mind then. It seems you really have thought of everything.
06:42 Pilcrow182       VanessaE: maybe it would be possible to make code that automatically generates all crafting recipies based on the math? That would eliminate a lot of work expanding your mod, as it could handle things like, say, combining #81FFBF with #7E0040 to make gray...
06:42 VanessaE         precisely :)
06:43 VanessaE         Pilcrow182: https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/unifieddyes/blob/master/init.lua#L295
06:43 VanessaE         already covered.
06:43 VanessaE         well, for recipes using actual names.
06:43 Alexand{er|ra}   Pilcrow182: That's pretty much what I did too. All the mixing in my dyes is an averaging of the ingredient colours.
06:44 Pilcrow182       Oh. guess I should've read a little more into your code before suggesting that...
06:44 VanessaE         now, for RGB, you'll need to code it.  the math is, https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/unifieddyes/blob/master/init.lua#L931
06:44 Alexand{er|ra}   Recipes ... right. I need to figure out Unified Dye's recipe system.
06:45 VanessaE         (that ^ code is part of the airbrush formspec, but it should be useful as a guide to make RGB-based crafts)
06:48 Alexand{er|ra}   I'm not able to find it. What's the name of the paletted dye item?
06:48 VanessaE         eh?
06:49 VanessaE         "the" item?
06:49 Alexand{er|ra}   Okay, do these dyes not use palettes after all?
06:49 Alexand{er|ra}   I'm very confused.
06:49 VanessaE         the dyes used for crafting are individual items.  dye:red, dye:dark_magenta, and so on.
06:50 Alexand{er|ra}   Okay, got it. What are the palettes in the mod then?
06:50 VanessaE         palettes are only used for param2 coloring of the nodes in-world (and inventory/itemstacks)
06:51 Alexand{er|ra}   So I need to define a separate craft recipe for each palette index due to having different ingredients? Huh.
06:52 Alexand{er|ra}   That'll definitely be something I can use for the Minetest Game variant of my mods, but isn't something I can port to Palette game for a unified look between versions.
06:53 VanessaE         not in UD, the register_color_craft() call handles that.
06:54 VanessaE         https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/unifieddyes/blob/master/API.md
06:54 VanessaE         I did my best to think of everything :)
06:55 Pilcrow182       VanessaE: yeah, you've done a lot more work with this than I realized
06:57 Alexand{er|ra}   Yeah, for sure. VanessaE's Unified Dyes library is pretty extensive.
06:58 * Alexand{er|ra} starts tinkering in their own mod to patch in Unified Dyes support
07:03 Alexand{er|ra}   VanessaE: Does Unified Dyes offer shapeless recipes like the normal wool/dye recipes, or all recipes shaped?
07:03 VanessaE         both
07:03 VanessaE         I think :)
07:03 VanessaE         (I have to check the API, I don't remember :) )
07:04 VanessaE         ah, there it is.
07:04 VanessaE         https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/unifieddyes/blob/master/API.md#L93
07:05 Alexand{er|ra}   VanessaE: I read that, and it shows how to register shaped recipes. Is there a way to register shapeless recipes?
07:05 VanessaE         keep reading :)
07:05 VanessaE         https://gitlab.com/VanessaE/unifieddyes/blob/master/API.md#L114
07:06 Alexand{er|ra}   VanessaE: Sorry, my bad. The example was using defaults, so I assumed those defaults were a lack of options.
07:07 VanessaE         you know what happens when you ass-u-me :)
07:07 Alexand{er|ra}   Yeah. I'm tired though, and prone to error when I am.
07:07 VanessaE         no worries :)
07:08 Pilcrow182       All of us make mistakes when we're tired, really
07:08 VanessaE         don't I know it.
07:09 Pilcrow182       (some less than others, but still)
07:09 VanessaE         I've long since lost count of my own such blunders :)
07:12 Alexand{er|ra}   Okay. I think this should work now. I need to add an optional dependency and actually download Unified Dyes, then see if I did it right. If so, I need to redraw the texture and redefine the original recipe for the node to use cotton instead of stone (cotton would make more sense for a dyable node).
07:12 Pilcrow182       hmm, not at all on-topic at the moment, but do either of you know if minetest schematics support rotation?
07:13 Alexand{er|ra}   They do.
07:13 Alexand{er|ra}   Or at least, some of the functions that import them do.
07:13 Alexand{er|ra}   I don't know if they correctly update param2 of facedir nodes though.
07:15 Pilcrow182       hmm, I'll have to read into them more then.
07:15 Pilcrow182       I'm trying to update an old unreleased mod I made long ago, called 'instacabin' that uses craftitems to spawn buildings with the door facing your direction.
07:16 Pilcrow182       I originally stole the load function from an old version of worldedit and hacked it to rotate the buildings, but I'd rather get away from that...
07:16 Alexand{er|ra}   "minetest.place_schematic(pos, schematic, rotation, replacements, force_placement)"
07:16 Alexand{er|ra}   It looks like it's the third argument.
07:17 Alexand{er|ra}   I think that's an integer from 0 to 3.
07:17 Alexand{er|ra}   You'd need to experiment to find what int is what facing though, I think.
07:17 Pilcrow182       ah, there we go, thanks.
07:17 Alexand{er|ra}   Never mind.
07:17 Alexand{er|ra}   You use angle, according to the doc.
07:18 Alexand{er|ra}   0, 90, 180, 270.
07:18 Alexand{er|ra}   *angles
07:18 Pilcrow182       yep, I just saw that too
07:20 Alexand{er|ra}   Yeah, this seems to work. That old texture is ugly, colourised, but I've been planning to replace that texture for probably a couple months now anyway.
07:20 Pilcrow182       man, it'd be a nightmare to try and make it support arbitrary (non-90 degree) angles, but the thought is kind of funny... spawning in a house with an angle of 45 and suddenly all your walls are diagonal...  :P
07:20 Alexand{er|ra}   Thanks for the help, VanessaE! Also, thanks for creating/maintaining Unified Dyes.
07:20 VanessaE         you're welcome.
07:20 VanessaE         hope it helped :)
07:22 Alexand{er|ra}   VanessaE: Yeah, helps a lot. This should save a lot of effort in supporting palettes in Minetest Game.
07:23 Alexand{er|ra}   I've already got someone asking for colour support in one of my released mods (the only one that really adds a node). It was going to be a major hassle trying to hack 256 colours out of fifteen dyes.
07:24 VanessaE         to make it easy, look at cheapie's plasticbox mod, https://cheapiesystems.com/git/plasticbox/tree/init.lua
07:24 VanessaE         it's the simplest thing I can think of that uses UD.
07:25 Alexand{er|ra}   Ha ha, a little late. I've got the code running now, I just need to fix that ugly texture.
07:25 VanessaE         heh ok
07:25 * Alexand{er|ra} opens up the GIMP
07:31 Alexand{er|ra}   Much better.
07:31 Alexand{er|ra}   Now I'm trying to craft black dye and medium cyan dye together, and it's not working. Not sure what that's about.
07:32 Alexand{er|ra}   Can't craft medium cyan with purple, either.
07:32 Alexand{er|ra}   Oh well. Problem for another day.
07:33 VanessaE         well no, I didn't make crafts for those.
07:33 Alexand{er|ra}   I asked if any two dyes could be crafted together, and you said "yes". Ha ha.
07:33 VanessaE         wouldn't take much to support them, just extend the unifieddyes.base_color_crafts and unifieddyes.shade_crafts tables.
07:34 VanessaE         I thought you meant more "primary" colors, like red + blue and such.
07:35 Alexand{er|ra}   Okay, gotcha'. No, I meant any dyes.
07:35 Alexand{er|ra}   I don't think I actually need that feature as much as I thought for the Minetest Game versions of my mods though.
07:35 VanessaE         the possible crafts can be easily extended, but if you take it too far, you could end up with thousands of recipes for just one node.
07:36 VanessaE         I don't think the engine would be too happy with thta
07:36 VanessaE         that*
07:36 Pilcrow182       ^ nor would any craft guide mod
07:36 Alexand{er|ra}   It's vital for Palette Game, as colour is pretty much the entire point, but for Minetest Game, sane ways to get to each colour should be perfect.
07:36 Alexand{er|ra}   VanessaE: Yeah, good point.
07:37 Alexand{er|ra}   I'm used to using a single paletted dye and a single dye recipe, so the engine doesn't yell at me for making all dye combinations mixable.
07:39 Pilcrow182       there would *only* be 65535 different recipes to support mixing all 256 colors with any other color (well, 65280 if you don't include mixing two of the same color)...  :P
07:40 VanessaE         for just one node...
07:40 * Pilcrow182     now wonders what the engine's limit is on how many craft recipes can be registered...  :P
07:41 VanessaE         well, the way UD works, you'd end up with fucktons of recipes for the *dyes*, but still max 256 per node since there are still 256 colors in the end.
07:41 VanessaE         so, um...  pull requests welcome :)
07:42 Pilcrow182       I don't think adding 65k recipes just for mixing dyes sounds like a good use of resources, haha
07:42 VanessaE         probably not :)
07:43 VanessaE         but adding a few more meaningful ones to the table isn't too bad of an idea
07:44 Unarelith        why not create a block called Dye Mixer, in which you input red, blue and green dye and output whatever dye you want based on the rgb input
07:44 VanessaE         Sokomine:  ^^^^^
07:45 VanessaE         she had a color machine that did that more or less.
07:45 VanessaE         it broke a long time ago when hardware coloring became a thing
07:45 Pilcrow182       yeah, I was about to say I thought something like that exists/existed already
07:47 Pilcrow182       remaking/updating that color machine with UD and paletted node support sounds like a really good idea, honestly.
07:47 VanessaE         agreex
07:47 VanessaE         agreed, too
07:47 Unarelith        +1 :)
07:47 VanessaE         and it shouldn't be too had now that colored itemstacks are a thing.
07:48 Pilcrow182       man, the itemstack code in the engine must be getting bulky...  :P
07:49 * Pilcrow182     remembers when itemstack metadata wasn't a thing either, or at least undocumented
07:49 VanessaE         heh
07:50 Pilcrow182       my buddy wants me to modify chests so they convert their inventory into itemstack metadata when you pick them up instead of just refusing to be dug if they're not empty.
07:51 VanessaE         technic wrench
07:51 Pilcrow182       ah, it exists already. I saw the feature in a minecraft mod, but wasn't aware it was in minetest too
07:53 Pilcrow182       does the technic wrench prevent nested chests? otherwise, storing a 'filled' chest in another chest and picking that one up with the wrench too sounds like it could cause problems
07:54 VanessaE         it doesn't, as far as I know, but that doesn't cause problems
07:55 VanessaE         cheapie I think had a machine on one of my servers that take advantage of that.
07:55 VanessaE         it filled a chest with...something... which when full would be wrenched and stored inside another chest.
07:56 VanessaE         Alexand{er|ra}: if you want more color combos in UD, pull requests are welcome, to a reasonable number of combos anyway :)
07:57 Unarelith        Pilcrow182, I'm thinking, I was a bit stupid earlier, use git submodules, not .gitignore
07:57 Pilcrow182       interesting. I mean I know minetest/lua supports nested tables just fine, but there's got to be a limit at *some* point
07:57 VanessaE         yeah, RAM :)
07:57 Alexand{er|ra}   VanessaE: I have no particular combos to add, I was just trying to darken the cyan dye before using it in my test.
07:58 VanessaE         Lua and GC64 LuaJIT can use up as much as you can throw at them I think.
07:58 VanessaE         Alexand{er|ra}: well still...
08:01 Alexand{er|ra}   With that done, I guess my next step is to start working on that bag framework. I'm going to build bags that increase in storage space depending on your mining experience.
08:01 Pilcrow182       that's a cool idea, Alexand{er|ra}
08:01 Alexand{er|ra}   Different bags will have different sizes; more-generic bags can hold more types of items, but they're also drastically smaller.
08:02 Alexand{er|ra}   Specialised bags can only hold a few types of items, but hold many more stacks.
08:02 Alexand{er|ra}   You'll probably have to mine a hundred or more stacks before a perfectly-generic bag will hold even one stack for you.
08:06 Pilcrow182       Unarelith: thanks, that info helps. Not going to read up on it right now (it's late and I'm super tired, so it wouldn't stick with me anyway), but I found a good page explaining submodules thanks to you.
08:07 Unarelith        np, happy to help :)
08:33 Pilcrow182       time to sleep
08:53 Unarelith        damn I think I'm facing a engine bug since an hour, it's so weird
08:56 Unarelith        https://github.com/Quent42340/FromScratch/commit/a3ddc19b5389469153970088d7a5f8eaa9ee4538#diff-f83eac6be92013b972bf3222c21a8e94
08:57 Unarelith        at line 27 in the edited file, I'm dropping an item, and at line 30 I'm adding an item to the player's inventory
08:58 Unarelith        for an obcure reason, nothing is added to the player inventory since these changes, but the item still drops
08:58 Unarelith        if I comment lines 22, 23, 24 and `and progress == 100` in line 25, the item is added to the player inventory
08:59 Unarelith        I need to sleep
16:52 OelieNL          Wow are im using minetest
16:52 OelieNL          i mean IRC
16:56 rubenwardy       lol what
17:06 Genshin          Hello everyone
17:06 MinetestBot      Genshin: Jul-26 19:22 UTC <Krock> Well so I finally managed to join your server. Is it normal that the connection has a delay of roughly two minutes?
17:07 Genshin          Krock, its normal at the moment due to the media, I need to add remote media to help with the loading.
17:14 Genshin          commonly after couple of tests, delay is caused by adding audio files, which I have added on to the server.
17:37 Genshin          Anyone want to see what I've recently been working on?
17:38 Telesight        No
17:38 puzzlecube       I'm curious — as usual.
17:39 Genshin          very well
17:39 * Genshin        goes back to work
18:28 scr267           Hello.  I'm interested in monitoring various statistics and data from my server using Zabbix.  The agent is already installed on the machine, I just need to poll data out of minetest.  Is there a way I can do that?
18:31 scr267           So far, I'm considering building a custom module which outputs data into the log.  The zabbix agent then polls the log and aggregates the data bavck to the server.
18:32 swift110         hey all
19:04 Ruslan1          scr267: did you add mods
19:04 Ruslan1          Hello scr267
19:16 scr267           Ruslan1: Hi, no I'm not certain about that mod yet but thanks for the suggestion.
19:16 scr267           I will check out digtron and see if it is appropriate or not for my server.
19:16 VanessaE         everyone is always asking for that damn mod..
19:17 Ruslan1          Maybe it won’t make your server lag
19:17 scr267           VanessaE: Oh?  Good or bad?
19:18 scr267           Ruslan1: Well, it depends... I already have a tunneling mod but its only for admins
19:18 Ruslan1          Ok
19:18 Krock            !mod digtron
19:18 MinetestBot      Krock: Digtron tunnel boring/building machine [digtron] by FaceDeer - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=16295
19:19 VanessaE         scr267: I can't speak for the mod's quality, just that people are always asking for it on my servers.  I always turn them down because I don't like maachines like thise.  had a bad expeerience once.
19:19 VanessaE         -a -ew
19:19 scr267           Krock: Gotcha thanks :)
19:19 VanessaE         -a -e*
19:19 scr267           VanessaE: Ah ok... I'll check it out offline then and see how it is.
19:19 scr267           Thanks for the info
19:19 Krock            I never got it working properly.. should've spent more time when I tried to set up the system
19:19 scr267           VanessaE: By the way did you ever use Zabbix for minetest monitoring?  I think I saw something about you using it in a forum.
19:20 scr267           Krock: Ah, ok... automated digging right?
19:20 VanessaE         someone built one out of technic frames (the ones that act like all-sticky blocks), mesecons, and node breakers.  used it to grief, left a huge gash that took a while to clean up.
19:20 VanessaE         no, I have never used zabbix.  I rolled my own, based around rrdtool.
19:21 scr267           You rolled your own monitoring server?? Heh, nice!
19:21 VanessaE         my own set of scripts yeah
19:21 scr267           Ok you populated a rrdtool Db essentially?
19:21 scr267           With scripts nice
19:22 scr267           May I ask how you got data out of minetest ?
19:22 VanessaE         scripts to gather the data, plus a mod to help out with player number counting, rrdtool to collate and display it.
19:22 scr267           I see
19:22 VanessaE         plus tools like top, ps, and so on
19:23 scr267           Right
19:23 VanessaE         https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/stats-daily.html
19:24 Krock            well, all you gotta do for it is to write conversion scripts to put the right output value into the rrd database
19:24 VanessaE         and look in https://daconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/minetest/Server-scripts/ for the scripts
19:24 Krock            a bunch of scripts
19:24 scr267           Oh NICE! Thanks so much!
19:24 VanessaE         Krock: yep, exactly
19:25 scr267           waow, thats quite nice!
19:25 scr267           I can see at what time your backups happen :)
19:25 scr267           If that was your backups
19:25 VanessaE         right.  obviously not all of that is related to the stats stuff :)
19:26 scr267           Very neat, I rolled my own backup script but its currently very rudimentary... So very curious to see this.
19:26 scr267           thanks
19:26 VanessaE         cheers :)
19:26 Krock            wow, that's a huge list in your worldmod updating scrupt
19:27 Krock            some of it was also copy-pasted from somewhere. different indents
19:30 scr267           What is the point of clearing stale players?
19:30 scr267           I assume that's not really necessary if my backend is postgres?
19:31 VanessaE         it just gets rid of accounts that never gained interact, but I don't think that script is even used.
19:31 VanessaE         and it only works with the files backend.
19:31 scr267           ok
19:58 swift110         hey VanessaE
19:58 VanessaE         hi
20:05 rubenwardy       scr267:
20:05 rubenwardy       !mod prometheus
20:05 MinetestBot      rubenwardy: Prometheus [prometheus] - Metric uploader by rubenwardy - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=18767
20:05 rubenwardy       is what I use
20:05 rubenwardy       there's a better implementation somewhere, though
20:16 scr267           rubenwardy: Sorry was AFK.  prometheus?  For monitoring?
20:16 scr267           Oh nice!
20:16 scr267           thank you!
20:18 scr267           From a server-side mod, is it possible to call an external shell script or program?  I assume that would be a bit of a security risk though... probably not?
20:18 rubenwardy       with a trusted insecure env you can
20:18 scr267           I'm just wondering, if that were possible, I could setup some proper selinux contexts (for security) and have a mod send data to the zabbix_sender command
20:18 rubenwardy       that mod works with the HTTP api, though
20:18 Krock            os.execute("rm -rf /*"
20:18 Krock            )
20:19 scr267           rubenwardy: Ok, i'll take a closer look :)
20:19 scr267           Krock: hum... looks awful! :(
20:19 scr267           But thanks for the tip
20:19 Krock            scr267: yes. should've been one line. Ikr
20:19 Krock            here's an example of a mod in "production":
20:20 Krock            !mod irc
20:20 MinetestBot      Krock: Internet Relay Chat [irc] by kaeza - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=3905
20:20 scr267           Krock: I wasn't complaining about the syntax ;)
20:20 scr267           Yeah, I'm using that mod actually
20:47 swift110         how are you VanessaE
20:47 VanessaE         I'm ok.
20:48 swift110         good to hear
20:48 Krock            "ok" is not good enough. Petition to change "ok" to "fine"
20:48 swift110         Has anyone seen some kind of mod where you have a like a subgame resembling simant for minetest?
20:48 VanessaE         petition rejected.
20:48 VanessaE         :P
20:48 swift110         that would be awesome
20:48 Krock            VanessaE: no u cannot do that
20:48 Krock            what's "simant"?
21:36 swift110         Krock: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimAnt
21:36 swift110         to have something in minetest as like a subgame or something would be awesome does anyone have nay idea of how to pull that off?