Time  Nick        Message
00:00 MarisaG     hehe
00:23 Ruslan1     Hello MarisaG
03:42 MarisaG     Hi Ruslan1
04:20 Pilcrow182  Any modders and/or minetest devs here (and not afk, of course)?
04:20 Pilcrow182  I am working on a new mod that I feel is almost ready for release, and thinking about licensing.
04:21 Pilcrow182  Will releasing it as CC BY 2.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/) create any problems?
04:23 MarisaG     Probly better than gpl
04:26 Pilcrow182  That's what I was thinking too -- I want to be credited if my content is used in someone else's mod (WTFPL doesn't add that stipulation), but would rather not introduce other restrictions
04:31 MarisaG     Ya, i release most of my scripts GPL but that is just because they are self-standing
04:31 MarisaG     If they interfaced with someone else's work I would want to impose that on them
04:31 MarisaG     would NOT want to...
04:38 Pilcrow182  Yeah, I think I'm sticking with CC BY 2.0. Thanks for the advice, btw, MarisaG.
04:43 MarisaG     Sure Pilcrow182
04:46 Ruslan1     MarisaG: I was trying make my server work
04:49 Ruslan1     MarisaG hello
04:50 sofar       Pilcrow182: CC licenses are not apprpriate for CODE
04:50 sofar       Pilcrow182: please do not license code under a CC license
04:50 sofar       textures, models, sounds, all fine as CC
04:51 sofar       however, you should always pick the HIGHEST CC version
04:51 sofar       so, CC-BY-3.0 is better than CC-BY-2.0
04:51 sofar       the latest CC-BY is CC-BY-4.0
04:52 sofar       Pilcrow182: if you don't want GPL but want credit, choose ISC or MIT
04:52 sofar       if you want the most permissing GPL choose LGPL-2.1
04:52 sofar       permissive*
04:55 Pilcrow182  Ah, thanks sofar, I actually didn't know there was a later CC version. Shows how often I worry about releasing stuff, lol.
04:58 sofar       more important is that you don't license code under CC though
04:58 sofar       both MIT and ISC licenses are great licenses if all you care about is attribution
04:59 Pilcrow182  sofar: I was just about to ask, why exactly are CC licenses not appopriate for code? I'm fine with releasing under another license, just wanting to know the reasoning.
04:59 sofar       https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i-apply-a-creative-commons-license-to-software
05:00 sofar       most importantly
05:00 sofar       "Additionally, our licenses are currently not compatible with the major software licenses, so it would be difficult to integrate CC-licensed work with other free software."
05:00 sofar       is really the core
05:08 MarisaG     Hi Ruslan1
05:08 Ruslan1     MarisaG: am trying running my server
05:09 Ruslan1     Can you help me
05:10 Ruslan1     Hello MarisaG
05:10 Pilcrow182  sofar: Thanks for that. I don't like the idea of adding restrictions like "you must include this license in all subsequent works" -- it doesn't matter to me if someone wants to use my code in a mod that has a different license, I just want credit for what I've done.
05:10 Ruslan1     Wake up MarisaG
05:11 Pilcrow182  maybe I'll just release as WTFPL and hope others give credit where it's due; that's not generally a problem with *this* community anyway...  :P
05:17 MarisaG     lol was in the shower
05:21 sofar       NOOOO
05:21 sofar       please no
05:21 sofar       please do not use WTFPL
05:21 sofar       Pilcrow182: that's the *worst* of them all
05:21 sofar       on top of that, no credit requirement
05:21 Pilcrow182  heh, why is it the worst?
05:22 sofar       I'm writing a forum FAQ on licensing explaining it
05:22 sofar       give me +/- 10 minutes
05:22 sofar       but, please, just use this license:
05:22 sofar       https://opensource.org/licenses/ISC
05:22 sofar       it's literally the thing you want
05:23 sofar       and hold up and read my forum post when I get it done :)
05:23 epoch       :/ merp. licenses.
05:30 sofar       https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=21158
05:31 sofar       honestly I've captured a ton of good info in that thread to explain everything
05:31 sofar       sigh, he t/o-ed
05:44 MarisaG     Wow good info sofar
05:46 Pilcrow182  sofar: My computer crashed, but not before I got your link to ISC. I've done as you suggested: https://github.com/Pilcrow182/flying_saucer
05:47 sofar       https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=21158
05:47 sofar       take your time and read it
05:48 sofar       it's not that much, I promise
05:48 sofar       Pilcrow182: but, good job on ISC, I have several mods licensed ISC and I generally relicense WTFPL to ISC where I can, too
06:02 MarisaG     hiya SanskritFritz
06:03 sofar       Pilcrow182: btw, if you have time
06:03 sofar       Pilcrow182: I encourage you to make your source code files look like this, with license at the top:
06:03 sofar       https://github.com/sofar/fsc/blob/master/init.lua
06:03 sofar       (that's the ISC license, as you can see)
06:09 Pilcrow182  sofar: Can do. I see that you've used your actual name and an email address. I'd prefer not to make my email public, but I'll follow suit on the name.
06:11 sofar       you don't need to
06:11 sofar       just write (c) <year> Pilcrow182
06:12 Pilcrow182  Alright then
06:12 sofar       there are reasons why I do, but you don't need to follow the example
06:13 Pilcrow182  Thanks for being so helpful, btw. I've been making my own mods for personal use for a long time, but never released most of them as the licensing always confused me.
06:14 sofar       yes, there's sites that do something like this already, but, this is focussed on MT related licensing better
19:28 Pilcrow182  sofar, do you happen to be at-keyboard (as opposed to afk)?  :P
19:28 Pilcrow182  and/or MarisaG as well?
19:30 Pilcrow182  After our conversation about licensing, I got it all together and posted the mod I was working on: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21330
19:37 rubenwardy  It's screenshot.png, no underscore
19:46 sofar       Pilcrow182: sup
20:27 scr267      is it possible to destroy a 'lua object' using the object code?
20:27 scr267      i've got an advanced train wagon that I really can't get rid of for whatever reason...
20:27 scr267      I've got all the proper permissions.
20:31 scr267      hey Rafi59
20:31 Rafi59      Hello
20:54 Pilcrow182  scr267 yeah, there are a few ways to get rid of it. I'd recommend just running the chat command /clearobjects, if you don't mind getting rid of ALL lua objects/entities in your world.
20:59 scr267      hum i assume thats /clearobjects - not clearobjects quick
20:59 scr267      ok ill give that a try
20:59 Pilcrow182  yeah
21:02 scr267      Thanks Pilcrow182... oddly enough it didn't get rid of advanced trains object
21:03 scr267      everything else is gone though... very odd
21:05 Pilcrow182  huh... that *is* odd. As far as I was aware, clearobjects is supposed to delete *all* objects in the environment... Are you sure it's an object?
21:05 scr267      it's a 'lua entity' at least... when i try to 'punch' it, thats how it shows up in the log file...
21:14 MinetestBot 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: New sneak: Smoothen the climb up event (#7727) 13c4f1a70 https://git.io/fpkaI (152018-11-08T21:12:39Z)
21:56 MinetestBot 02[git] 04random-geek -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve content store layout (#7806) 13bd81b5e https://git.io/fpkoS (152018-11-08T21:55:38Z)
22:01 MinetestBot 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Content store: Add setting to filter non-free packages (#7766) 13b1112f6 https://git.io/fpkKR (152018-11-08T21:59:56Z)
22:36 Pilcrow182  rubenwardy: I'm not sure why that matters (maybe an incompatibility with Content DB?), but I have now removed the underscores from my image files.
22:37 rubenwardy  It's part of the minetest API, just like how it's depends.txt and not _depends.txt
22:38 rubenwardy  It's used in the mods/content tab, depending on whether you're using 0.4.x or 5.0
22:43 Pilcrow182  rubenwardy: Hmm, I didn't know the minetest API itself handles/uses screenshots. That's interesting. Thanks for pointing it out.  :)
22:43 swift110    hey all
22:43 Pilcrow182  hi swift110
22:55 swift110    aww
22:59 Pilcrow182  I'm back; computer crashed
22:59 Pilcrow182  ok, not crashed, more like got unplugged...  :P
23:04 VanessaE    https://xkcd.com/908/
23:21 swift110    cool Pilcrow182 how are you now
23:25 Pilcrow182  VanessaE: Heh, I've seen that. How you doing by the way? I've been away for a while...
23:25 VanessaE    I'm okay.
23:26 Pilcrow182  swift110: Not bad myself. Just released a new mod  :)
23:27 Pilcrow182  Flying Saucer mod -- https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21330
23:27 Cornelia    If you go high does the skybox turn space-y?
23:28 Pilcrow182  Cornelia: No, but that's a fantastic idea and easily changed; I'll probably add that!
23:29 Cornelia    Version 2!!! :P
23:30 Pilcrow182  Now the question is how high do I let the player go before it becomes outer space...  :P
23:34 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest: Content store: Add show_nonfree_packages setting to advanced settings… 139a151e0 https://git.io/fpkSy (152018-11-08T23:33:59Z)
23:34 Pilcrow182  Cornelia: Probably 0.9.1 really; I'm saving 1.0 for when I figure out how to fix my two 'known bugs' (that is, stop Shift from cutting movement to 1/3 speed and figure out how to make vertical movement handle heavy server load better)
23:34 epoch       not going to try to use apt for minetest packages?
23:34 epoch       :>
23:35 epoch       apt has been ported to windows, right?
23:37 srifqi      Chocolatey?
23:38 epoch       I keep finding that in search results
23:38 epoch       and it keeps saying "works /like/ apt-get"
23:38 epoch       which I'm guessing means it isn't compatible.
23:39 swift110    good I havent been on minetest in ages
23:39 Pilcrow182  Yeah, I'm not sure if chocolatey actually uses apt code (probably not), just that it has similar syntax
23:40 epoch       I don't care about the code, just that one source could be used for both windows and linux
23:40 epoch       since mods are lua and media
23:40 Pilcrow182  swift110: Me neither. Been a few years since I was active in this community, but now I'm back to modding...  :P
23:41 epoch       could have separate dirs in the repos for any OS-specific code.
23:42 Pilcrow182  epoch: Hmm, well, I *thought* there was a Windows port of apt itself, but I can't find it now. Maybe my memory's playing tricks on me... :P
23:42 epoch       I remember using something on windows a while ago that was part of minsys I think
23:42 epoch       that seemed to be apt-like.
23:42 epoch       dunno if it was compatible with it or not.
23:43 Cornelia    Pilcrow182: the shift bug might be fixable via another mod (the one that does player attributes) or by multiplying the current player's speed by three when they're in a saucer and flying about while holding shift
23:43 epoch       >_> found a page for minsys2 that has pacman.
23:44 Pilcrow182  epoch: pacman > apt anyway, imho
23:45 * epoch     installs pacman on debian to test
23:45 Pilcrow182  Cornelia: Flying Saucer already modifies player attributes, but I wasn't able to find a way to disable 'sneak' using those
23:45 epoch       lol
23:46 epoch       pacman. no arguments. starts a pac-man game.
23:48 Pilcrow182  Cornelia: As for the second option, I tried that, but the multiplying doesn't go away immediately, so for example holding forward+shift and then letting go of shift makes your speed jump from 8 to 24. That only happens for a split second, but I found it very annoying to use that way.
23:48 Cornelia    Bizarre
23:51 Pilcrow182  unlike other minetest objects (LuaEntitySAO), there's also no player:setvelocity() function, which would help *immensely* if it existed...
23:52 Pilcrow182  instead I had to get creative for vertical movement: my mod modifies the player's gravity value instead (negative numbers make you 'fall up', etc)
23:56 Cornelia    Pilcrow182: getphysicsoverride disable sneak for players while in UFO
23:57 Cornelia    That might help.
23:57 Cornelia    set_physics_override
23:57 Cornelia    Disable sneak when in UFO. Should stop the motion slowing.