Time Nick Message 00:05 calcul0n Helenah, converters take input from above and output on the bottom 00:06 calcul0n the conversion depends on the type of cables you plug there 04:56 nomizzz Was following Rubenward's great book on mod dev and trying to setup Lua debugging via Eclipse, hitting a run-time error on the 'require("debugger")' call -- specifically "/usr/local/lib/lua/5.1/debugger.lua:53: module 'socket.core' not found" 04:57 nomizzz anyone have any ideas where socket.core might be and why the Minetest Lua interpreter can't find it? 04:58 nomizzz https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/basics/lua.html#integrated-programming-environments -- that's relevant section I was following 06:54 Quiark dafuq, the world .sqlite file is one big SQL command? 06:58 VanessaE is it? 06:58 Quiark it is on my computer (macos homebrew build) 06:58 VanessaE huh. 07:37 danuker hi! Does anyone know how I can reach Paramat? 07:38 danuker or some other developer, privately; I think I found a slight security glitch (low impact) 07:41 danuker if you don't want to post their email here, would you please message me in private? i'll be afk for an hour or so. Thanks! 07:57 ANAND You can contact them via a forum PM 07:58 ANAND If you still want their email addresses, it written all over the credits page ;) 08:00 norkle yeee! 08:30 danuker oh, thanks ANAND! 08:37 danuker I spent some time trying to find email addresses off Github accounts, but didn't think of looking under the Community menu on the Minetest site 11:08 Helenah Hiya! :) 11:16 ANAND Hello! 11:37 Helenah I've heavily modified gametest_game 12:08 danuker Helenah: what did you change in it? 12:15 piesquared I just reinstalled minetest with apt-get for my server, which one of these would it go in? (Sorry, i cant pastebin. Parental restrictions.). 12:15 piesquared usr/share/minetest/games/minetest_game/mods 12:15 piesquared usr/share/minetest/games/minimal/mods 12:15 piesquared usr/share/games/minetest/games/minetest_game/mods 12:15 piesquared usr/share/games/minetest/games/minimal/mods 12:28 Helenah I'm desperate for the vanilla minecraft textures without having to create the pack myself, there is tobyplowy Vanilla-32x32 texture pack, however his git repo has been removed... 12:34 Helenah Or atleast the sphax texture pack, that's a dead link too 13:16 Helenah Yo, why is a mod calling me a hacker? 13:20 Helenah Seriously... 13:20 Helenah I change a tad code, and it throws "You, hacker, you" at me. 13:20 ChimneySwift a mod or a moderator? 13:20 ChimneySwift oh lol 13:20 Helenah modification 13:20 Helenah Yet... what I did works... 13:21 ChimneySwift it's a hidden item 13:21 Helenah I made pipeworks so it doesn't depend on minetest_game default. 13:21 Helenah I got the pipes to connect to the chest 13:22 ChimneySwift it's kinda the convention to put that in the description of items that aren't in the creative inventory 13:22 Helenah Either way, I've never appreciated being called a hacker. lol 13:22 ChimneySwift lol 13:22 Helenah People usually mean "blackhat" when they use the term though, that makes it by default a nasty thing to call someone. 13:24 Helenah ChimneySwift: The ones who are hacky are the developers putting terms "hacker" in their codebase. 13:25 ChimneySwift lol 13:26 Helenah No seriously, this isn't the first time I've seen it. 13:26 Helenah I've even had programs call me dumb and stupid lol 13:27 Ingar hack the planet 13:27 Helenah heh 13:28 Ingar coincidently, I connected a pipe to a chest yesterday 13:28 Ingar it worked fine :) 13:28 Helenah Yeah, same here 13:28 Helenah But... I'm sick and tired of duplicate items. 13:28 Helenah There needs to be a proper API 13:28 Ingar Helenah: it bugs? 13:29 Helenah Cause... things are depending on the default mod, makes no sense 13:29 Ingar (I've just setup a new game a few days ago) 13:29 Helenah That's hacky 13:29 Helenah "Oh, lets depend on minetest_game" 13:29 Helenah That means, games can't be well supported by mods. 13:29 ChimneySwift lol, it pretty much only screws up like 1 game, but yeah I guess 13:30 ChimneySwift default should be like separated out so it's not this one thing that everything depends on 13:30 Helenah So I removed the chests from default, and rewrote pipeworks to use the chests from MineClone2 13:30 Helenah It's annoying 13:30 Helenah The mod base is a mess 13:30 ChimneySwift if you only want to modify the player stuff you don't need to depend on the node stuff 13:31 Helenah I already ripped out the minetest_game mapgen cause it was clashing with the one of mineclone2 13:31 Helenah I removed the torches, lots of stone, I've renamed commands cause they were nonsensical and long 13:32 Helenah and then I get called a "hacker"... 13:32 Helenah It's called "scripting" 13:32 rubenwardy Helenah: they mean the traditional meaning of hacker 13:32 Helenah At Harvard? I know 13:33 rubenwardy like, making a hack 13:33 rubenwardy heh 13:33 Helenah It's not a hack 13:33 Helenah It's only a hack, if it's hacky. 13:33 Helenah It was hacky before, now it's quite clean. 13:33 Helenah So idk 13:33 Helenah I think I'm just gonna write my own mods anyway 13:33 rubenwardy you're combining things that aren't meant to be combined 13:33 ChimneySwift hacker has a very broad definition 13:34 rubenwardy yeah 13:34 rubenwardy like: hackathon 13:34 rubenwardy it's the same meaning as that 13:34 ChimneySwift look it up, it can mean a computer expert or someone gaining unauthorized access to a computer 13:34 Helenah Or someone who puts a routerboard in their ceiling space? 13:35 Helenah and pis in their wall cavities? Then I guess I'mma hacker. lol 13:35 ChimneySwift but what node is it? clearly you've gotten a node with giveme or unhiden it in creative that usually wouldn't be accessible 13:35 ChimneySwift lol 13:35 ChimneySwift your an expert relative to my mum 13:36 ChimneySwift :p 13:36 Helenah I'm going to be taking a look into why it threw it. 13:36 Helenah Right now it was just like WTF 13:36 Helenah heh 13:36 ChimneySwift oh, and not to mention that it's kinda being funny, some mods even use "u" lol 13:37 ChimneySwift u hak0r u! 13:37 Helenah Keyword "Code redundancy" 13:37 Helenah Putting silly funny messages in a codebase is redundant. 13:37 piesquared Yeah, I belive you can get a node called air... 13:37 ChimneySwift yes 13:38 piesquared And with terumet, in the crafts it requires time. You can get that item. XD 13:38 rubenwardy ohh 13:38 rubenwardy misread 13:38 ChimneySwift and it's not even redundant, it's telling the user that they wouldn't normally have that node 13:38 rubenwardy I thought you were talking about Wuzzy 13:38 piesquared So if you have give or creative, you can literally sell time. XD 13:38 rubenwardy in this context, yes, it's saying you hacked or cheated 13:38 Helenah Anyway... how come mods depend on minetest_game? 13:38 Helenah I'm curious 13:39 rubenwardy because it's packaged by default 13:39 ChimneySwift they don't 13:39 rubenwardy unfortunately 13:39 rubenwardy they also depend on mods in mtg 13:39 rubenwardy such as default 13:39 ChimneySwift ^ 13:39 rubenwardy (default sucks btw) 13:39 Helenah Yeah, I got that, and wool 13:39 rubenwardy wool is fine 13:39 Helenah I dumped em in my mods dir 13:39 rubenwardy it's easy to make a compatible wool API 13:39 rubenwardy not so easy to make a compatible default API 13:40 ChimneySwift yeahhhh 13:40 Helenah The only problem I have with minetest_game is the bloat within, and the fact it's a game. 13:40 Helenah If it was some extremely basic lua API, then it would make more sense for mods to depend on it. 13:40 Helenah I'm gonna check out minimal 13:41 ChimneySwift it strikes a balance between being a good modding base and a full featured game 13:41 rubenwardy minimal is for developers 13:41 ChimneySwift that's to say it's worst at both 13:41 ChimneySwift ? 13:41 Helenah It's a bad balance 13:41 Helenah heh 13:41 rubenwardy minimal has integration tests and such in it 13:41 ChimneySwift yeah 13:41 rubenwardy not something you want to mod off of 13:42 Helenah hmm 13:43 Helenah I like the idea of games though 13:43 Helenah It allows people to create a full blown pack, but I think it's wrong to use it as a mod dependency 13:43 rubenwardy you're not :P 13:43 ChimneySwift you only depend on the mods within 13:43 Helenah Otherwise, what's to point in having games if people are going to have trouble applying peoples mods over it? 13:44 Helenah hmm 13:44 Helenah I might try modifying mineclone2 instead 13:44 ChimneySwift it is an issue that default is such a prevent dependancy 13:44 ChimneySwift or however you spell that 13:44 ChimneySwift but that's not the mods fault 13:45 Helenah hmm 13:45 ChimneySwift in order to modify or use one little texture or whatever from part of default, you need to depend on the whole thing 13:45 rubenwardy up vote and comment on this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/726 13:51 Helenah Okay, compiling with 12 cores, this should be fast! 13:52 Helenah It's there a way to compile the server only? 13:52 Helenah Compiled 13:58 Helenah aaaah -DBUILD_CLIENT=0 13:58 Helenah xD 15:11 Raitsa I installed Manjaro deepin for a mate cos he wanted that one. 15:11 Raitsa Looked cool 15:12 Raitsa he is gonna come to Solus tribe if he has trouble with that one 15:20 Raitsa disregard the above :) 15:37 Helenah Raitsa: Wrong channel, I see? heh 15:38 Raitsa Yeah :) 16:29 paramat 'you hacker you' is one of celeron's jokes for when you acquire 'air' or 'ignore' nodes in-game 16:30 paramat 'The mod base is a mess' yes. unfortunately MTG is a mess hard to put right as so much depends on it being how it is 16:30 rubenwardy easy to put right 16:30 rubenwardy just cleanly break everything 16:31 Fulgen acquire air nodes ingame? o.O 16:34 paramat yeah i somewhat prefer just starting a new mod base game 16:44 paramat heh 17:47 Calinou Fulgen: /give air or /give ignore 17:47 Calinou :) 17:48 Fulgen apart from that 17:48 Calinou those are the only nodes in Minetest not part of a mod 17:48 Calinou so they don't have any prefix 17:48 Fulgen What's ignore for? 17:48 Calinou a while ago, there was a bug which allowed you to get air nodes occasionally 17:48 Fulgen :o 17:48 Calinou ignore is like air, but entities can walk on it, and it culls the faces of neighboring nodes 17:48 Calinou it's used in unloaded blocks on the client 17:48 Calinou (so you can't move past an unloaded block) 17:49 Calinou (block = 16×16×16 area in Minetest terminology) 17:49 Fulgen ah 17:58 swift110 hey all 18:02 Helenah paramat: Btw, I got dimensions 18:03 swift110 hey all 18:03 Helenah Ohai swift110 18:03 paramat how 18:03 Helenah :) 18:03 Helenah For the nether and the end 18:03 swift110 how are you Helenah 18:04 Helenah swift110: I'm good :) 18:04 Helenah paramat: Someone has already done it 18:04 Helenah Maybe it could be merged 18:04 swift110 good to hear Helenah how long have you been playing minetest 18:05 Helenah A while now 18:05 swift110 thats cool 18:05 Hijiri Helenah: do you mean the thing that places the nether underground 18:05 swift110 I have played it a bit here and there but I have a hard time really getting into it 18:06 Hijiri or something that creates an actual separate map 18:06 Helenah It's a full blown mapgen 18:06 Helenah It places the nether underneath bedrock 18:06 Helenah and the end above the overworld 18:07 Hijiri ok 18:07 Hijiri just asked for clarification 18:07 Helenah swift110: It's not as advanced as Minecraft 18:07 Hijiri "dimensions" has been a development discussion topic, and usually refers to disjoint areas spatially 18:08 Helenah Thing is... it's already been done. 18:08 Helenah All the dev team has to do is take elements 18:08 Helenah paramat: Unless you plan to put in mpv7 18:09 swift110 Helenah, I have never played minecraft 18:09 Hijiri Helenah: "disjoint areas spatially" was a bad way to describe it 18:09 Helenah swift110: It would be best you don't if you plan to get into Minetest. 18:09 Hijiri basically dimensions means separate maps / worlds 18:09 Hijiri sealing with bedrock sort of does that, but not really 18:10 Hijiri spatially discontinuous would have been a better way to describe it 18:11 swift110 Helenah, loL! Oh, I am aware. I really admire the minetest project 18:12 Hijiri if you're modding then looking at minecraft mods can be useful for inspiration 18:12 Helenah swift110: Thing is... Minecraft is like 100x more advanced which is why I recommend you don't try it if you wanna get into Minetest. 18:12 swift110 Helenah, lol I know that already 18:12 Ingar there was even a plain multiworld mod for minecraft 18:12 Helenah I look at the server list and nobody plays on them, most people would take more of a liking to minecraft. 18:12 Ingar kinda handy if you wanted your personal sanxbox 18:13 Ingar *sand 18:13 Hijiri networked singleplayer lol 18:13 swift110 To be fair Minecraft has a lot more people working on it and a lot more exposure than minetest so it clearly has advantages from that standpoit alone 18:13 Hijiri more modders 18:13 Ingar and better name :p 18:14 Ingar (been running an mc server since 2011 or so, also running an empty mt server now :p ) 18:15 Ingar I"m trying to recapture the Tekkit feeling on mt-technic 18:16 Ingar I like how it runs fine on my pussy ARM vps 18:17 Helenah Has anyone heard of this? https://github.com/Jobava/Voxelands 18:18 Hijiri yes it's dead 18:18 Ingar Helenah: I think it was around the previous time I dabbed into minetest around 2015 18:18 rubenwardy it's a dead Minetest fork, based on 0.3.0 18:18 Helenah hmm 18:19 Krock the gitlab repo is still up; but the website down and developer probably gone 18:21 Helenah What about Freeminer? 18:21 Helenah I'm just seeing what other sandboxes there are in this style 18:21 Hijiri I think it's finished too 18:21 Hijiri it wa salso a minetest fork 18:22 Hijiri terasology is a game that isn't a minetest fork 18:22 Helenah So really, Minetest is leading the open source community with this type of game 18:22 Krock freeminer development stopped and they allowed Minetest to use their GPL licensed code 18:24 Helenah hmm 18:24 paramat a 'nether' mod? i partly wrote the 'pilzadam nether mod' 18:24 Ingar terasology seems to be focused on looking fancy 18:24 Helenah Aaaah 18:24 Helenah Tho... it's not the nether mod 18:24 Hijiri apparently terasology had 9 google summer of code projects 18:26 paramat ok, what mod are you referring to? 18:26 paramat luckily we avoided that summer code code thing 18:26 Helenah It's the mapgen in mineclone 2 18:26 Helenah They have used things from the nether mod 18:26 Hijiri https://forum.terasology.org/threads/gsoc-2018-multiple-worlds.2168/ 18:27 Hijiri maybe it would be useful for Minetest to do GSOC too 18:27 Helenah but they have combined it together with an end 18:27 Hijiri then there would be money and structured development 18:27 Hijiri (for some particular feature) 18:28 Helenah GSOC? 18:28 Hijiri google summer of code 18:28 Hijiri https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/how-it-works/ 18:28 Hijiri it looks like terasology is doing a bunch of GSOC projects for different features (including dimensions, which is something people have been asking for in Minetest for a while) 18:29 timdorohin Ingar: terasology can't work on my notebook even on lowest settings 18:29 Hijiri I bet VAEs could fall under a GSOC project too 18:29 Hijiri has registering Minetest with GSoC been discussed before? 18:29 paramat ahh 18:30 Krock CSgO? 18:30 Krock the letters are there, just different order 18:30 Helenah But it uses java :/ 18:30 paramat gsoc has been discussed yes, i was -1 18:30 Helenah The whole reason why I chose Minetest was cause I hate Java 18:31 Hijiri counter strike / grand order 18:31 Hijiri right 18:31 Hijiri why do you hate java 18:31 Hijiri do you hate java or hate the program being slow 18:31 Krock hate being java 18:31 Ingar it has no default implementation for virtual methods 18:31 Helenah Because it's stupid 18:32 Helenah It's far from low footprint 18:32 Hijiri Ingar: I think in most cases you don't want implementation inheritance 18:32 Helenah Everything is a class and in an archive 18:32 Helenah and it has to flush it memory 18:32 Krock well, C# isn't any better there if someone has the idea to compare them 18:32 Ingar Hijiri: I like C++ :p 18:32 Helenah Lol 18:32 Helenah these sandboxes in Java wont run on my P4 18:32 Helenah Minetest does cause it's C++ and Lua 18:33 Hijiri I prefer C++, but I think implementation inheritance should still be avoided in most cases 18:33 Hijiri anyway maybe I will try to bring up gsoc again when org applications open 18:35 Cornelia Oí.. 18:35 Cornelia Me gusta Java. :P 18:35 Hijiri minetest should have been done in haskell 18:35 rubenwardy lol 18:35 Cornelia Ah.. so that's where your loyalties lie. :P 18:35 Ingar haskell is on my exorcism list 18:36 rubenwardy I hate Java 18:36 swift110 Helenah, hating java is fine whatever works with you 18:36 rubenwardy Kotlin is love though 18:36 Cornelia Oí! 18:36 swift110 rubenwardy, anything new on your site? 18:36 Cornelia Me gusta Java! :P 18:36 rubenwardy eerr, not really 18:36 Helenah swift110: It's silly 18:36 rubenwardy added a time line 18:37 Helenah So any new feature plans for 5.0.0-dev? 18:38 rubenwardy !dev Changelog 18:38 MinetestBot "Note that not all changes made to the code between releases are listed here." - http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog 18:43 Helenah hmm 18:45 paramat see the issues and PRs labelled 'blocker' 18:50 swift110 Helenah, oh ok 18:50 swift110 rubenwardy, i loved your poster that you was showig to folks