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IRC log for #minetest, 2018-09-06

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:05 calcul0n Helenah, converters take input from above and output on the bottom
00:06 calcul0n the conversion depends on the type of cables you plug there
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04:56 nomizzz Was following Rubenward's great book on mod dev and trying to setup Lua debugging via Eclipse, hitting a run-time error on the 'require("debugger")' call -- specifically "/usr/local/lib/lua/5.1/debugger.lua:53: module 'socket.core' not found"
04:57 nomizzz anyone have any ideas where socket.core might be and why the Minetest Lua interpreter can't find it?
04:58 nomizzz https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/en/basics/lua.html#integrated-programming-environments -- that's relevant section I was following
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06:54 Quiark dafuq, the world .sqlite file is one big SQL command?
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06:58 VanessaE is it?
06:58 Quiark it is on my computer (macos homebrew build)
06:58 VanessaE huh.
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07:37 danuker hi! Does anyone know how I can reach Paramat?
07:38 danuker or some other developer, privately; I think I found a slight security glitch (low impact)
07:41 danuker if you don't want to post their email here, would you please message me in private? i'll be afk for an hour or so. Thanks!
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07:57 ANAND You can contact them via a forum PM
07:58 ANAND If you still want their email addresses, it written all over the credits page ;)
08:00 norkle yeee!
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08:30 danuker oh, thanks ANAND!
08:37 danuker I spent some time trying to find email addresses off Github accounts, but didn't think of looking under the Community menu on the Minetest site
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11:08 Helenah Hiya! :)
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11:16 ANAND Hello!
11:37 Helenah I've heavily modified gametest_game
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12:08 danuker Helenah: what did you change in it?
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12:15 piesquared I just reinstalled minetest with apt-get for my server, which one of these would it go in?  (Sorry, i cant pastebin.  Parental restrictions.).
12:15 piesquared usr/share/minetest/games/minetest_game/mods
12:15 piesquared usr/share/minetest/games/minimal/mods
12:15 piesquared usr/share/games/minetest/games/minetest_game/mods
12:15 piesquared usr/share/games/minetest/games/minimal/mods
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12:28 Helenah I'm desperate for the vanilla minecraft textures without having to create the pack myself, there is tobyplowy Vanilla-32x32 texture pack, however his git repo has been removed...
12:34 Helenah Or atleast the sphax texture pack, that's a dead link too
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13:16 Helenah Yo, why is a mod calling me a hacker?
13:20 Helenah Seriously...
13:20 Helenah I change a tad code, and it throws "You, hacker, you" at me.
13:20 ChimneySwift a mod or a moderator?
13:20 ChimneySwift oh lol
13:20 Helenah modification
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13:20 Helenah Yet... what I did works...
13:21 ChimneySwift it's a hidden item
13:21 Helenah I made pipeworks so it doesn't depend on minetest_game default.
13:21 Helenah I got the pipes to connect to the chest
13:22 ChimneySwift it's kinda the convention to put that in the description of items that aren't in the creative inventory
13:22 Helenah Either way, I've never appreciated being called a hacker. lol
13:22 ChimneySwift lol
13:22 Helenah People usually mean "blackhat" when they use the term though, that makes it by default a nasty thing to call someone.
13:24 Helenah ChimneySwift: The ones who are hacky are the developers putting terms "hacker" in their codebase.
13:25 ChimneySwift lol
13:26 Helenah No seriously, this isn't the first time I've seen it.
13:26 Helenah I've even had programs call me dumb and stupid lol
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13:27 Ingar hack the planet
13:27 Helenah heh
13:28 Ingar coincidently, I connected a pipe to a chest yesterday
13:28 Ingar it worked fine :)
13:28 Helenah Yeah, same here
13:28 Helenah But... I'm sick and tired of duplicate items.
13:28 Helenah There needs to be a proper API
13:28 Ingar Helenah: it bugs?
13:29 Helenah Cause... things are depending on the default mod, makes no sense
13:29 Ingar (I've just setup a new game a few days ago)
13:29 Helenah That's hacky
13:29 Helenah "Oh, lets depend on minetest_game"
13:29 Helenah That means, games can't be well supported by mods.
13:29 ChimneySwift lol, it pretty much only screws up like 1 game, but yeah I guess
13:30 ChimneySwift default should be like separated out so it's not this one thing that everything depends on
13:30 Helenah So I removed the chests from default, and rewrote pipeworks to use the chests from MineClone2
13:30 Helenah It's annoying
13:30 Helenah The mod base is a mess
13:30 ChimneySwift if you only want to modify the player stuff you don't need to depend on the node stuff
13:31 Helenah I already ripped out the minetest_game mapgen cause it was clashing with the one of mineclone2
13:31 Helenah I removed the torches, lots of stone, I've renamed commands cause they were nonsensical and long
13:32 Helenah and then I get called a "hacker"...
13:32 Helenah It's called "scripting"
13:32 rubenwardy Helenah: they mean the traditional meaning of hacker
13:32 Helenah At Harvard? I know
13:33 rubenwardy like, making a hack
13:33 rubenwardy heh
13:33 Helenah It's not a hack
13:33 Helenah It's only a hack, if it's hacky.
13:33 Helenah It was hacky before, now it's quite clean.
13:33 Helenah So idk
13:33 Helenah I think I'm just gonna write my own mods anyway
13:33 rubenwardy you're combining things that aren't meant to be combined
13:33 ChimneySwift hacker has a very broad definition
13:34 rubenwardy yeah
13:34 rubenwardy like:  hackathon
13:34 rubenwardy it's the same meaning as that
13:34 ChimneySwift look it up, it can mean a computer expert or someone gaining unauthorized access to a computer
13:34 Helenah Or someone who puts a routerboard in their ceiling space?
13:35 Helenah and pis in their wall cavities? Then I guess I'mma hacker. lol
13:35 ChimneySwift but what node is it? clearly you've gotten a node with giveme or unhiden it in creative that usually wouldn't be accessible
13:35 ChimneySwift lol
13:35 ChimneySwift your an expert relative to my mum
13:36 ChimneySwift :p
13:36 Helenah I'm going to be taking a look into why it threw it.
13:36 Helenah Right now it was just like WTF
13:36 Helenah heh
13:36 ChimneySwift oh, and not to mention that it's kinda being funny, some mods even use "u" lol
13:37 ChimneySwift u hak0r u!
13:37 Helenah Keyword "Code redundancy"
13:37 Helenah Putting silly funny messages in a codebase is redundant.
13:37 piesquared Yeah, I belive you can get a node called air...
13:37 ChimneySwift yes
13:38 piesquared And with terumet, in the crafts it requires time.  You can get that item. XD
13:38 rubenwardy ohh
13:38 rubenwardy misread
13:38 ChimneySwift and it's not even redundant, it's telling the user that they wouldn't normally have that node
13:38 rubenwardy I thought you were talking about Wuzzy
13:38 piesquared So if you have give or creative, you can literally sell time. XD
13:38 rubenwardy in this context, yes, it's saying you hacked or cheated
13:38 Helenah Anyway... how come mods depend on minetest_game?
13:38 Helenah I'm curious
13:39 rubenwardy because it's packaged by default
13:39 ChimneySwift they don't
13:39 rubenwardy unfortunately
13:39 rubenwardy they also depend on mods in mtg
13:39 rubenwardy such as default
13:39 ChimneySwift ^
13:39 rubenwardy (default sucks btw)
13:39 Helenah Yeah, I got that, and wool
13:39 rubenwardy wool is fine
13:39 Helenah I dumped em in my mods dir
13:39 rubenwardy it's easy to make a compatible wool API
13:39 rubenwardy not so easy to make a compatible default API
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13:40 ChimneySwift yeahhhh
13:40 Helenah The only problem I have with minetest_game is the bloat within, and the fact it's a game.
13:40 Helenah If it was some extremely basic lua API, then it would make more sense for mods to depend on it.
13:40 Helenah I'm gonna check out minimal
13:41 ChimneySwift it strikes a balance between being a good modding base and a full featured game
13:41 rubenwardy minimal is for developers
13:41 ChimneySwift that's to say it's worst at both
13:41 ChimneySwift 👏
13:41 Helenah It's a bad balance
13:41 Helenah heh
13:41 rubenwardy minimal has integration tests and such in it
13:41 ChimneySwift yeah
13:41 rubenwardy not something you want to mod off of
13:42 Helenah hmm
13:43 Helenah I like the idea of games though
13:43 Helenah It allows people to create a full blown pack, but I think it's wrong to use it as a mod dependency
13:43 rubenwardy you're not :P
13:43 ChimneySwift you only depend on the mods within
13:43 Helenah Otherwise, what's to point in having games if people are going to have trouble applying peoples mods over it?
13:44 Helenah hmm
13:44 Helenah I might try modifying mineclone2 instead
13:44 ChimneySwift it is an issue that default is such a prevent dependancy
13:44 ChimneySwift or however you spell that
13:44 ChimneySwift but that's not the mods fault
13:45 Helenah hmm
13:45 ChimneySwift in order to modify or use one little texture or whatever from part of default, you need to depend on the whole thing
13:45 rubenwardy up vote and comment on this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/726
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13:51 Helenah Okay, compiling with 12 cores, this should be fast!
13:52 Helenah It's there a way to compile the server only?
13:52 Helenah Compiled
13:58 Helenah aaaah -DBUILD_CLIENT=0
13:58 Helenah xD
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15:11 Raitsa I installed Manjaro deepin for a mate cos he wanted that one.
15:11 Raitsa Looked cool
15:12 Raitsa he is gonna come to Solus tribe if he has trouble with that one
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15:20 Raitsa disregard the above :)
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15:37 Helenah Raitsa: Wrong channel, I see? heh
15:38 Raitsa Yeah :)
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16:29 paramat 'you hacker you' is one of celeron's jokes for when you acquire 'air' or 'ignore' nodes in-game
16:30 paramat 'The mod base is a mess' yes. unfortunately MTG is a mess hard to put right as so much depends on it being how it is
16:30 rubenwardy easy to put right
16:30 rubenwardy just cleanly break everything
16:31 Fulgen acquire air nodes ingame? o.O
16:34 paramat yeah i somewhat prefer just starting a new mod base game
16:44 paramat heh
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17:47 Calinou Fulgen: /give air or /give ignore
17:47 Calinou :)
17:48 Fulgen apart from that
17:48 Calinou those are the only nodes in Minetest not part of a mod
17:48 Calinou so they don't have any prefix
17:48 Fulgen What's ignore for?
17:48 Calinou a while ago, there was a bug which allowed you to get air nodes occasionally
17:48 Fulgen :o
17:48 Calinou ignore is like air, but entities can walk on it, and it culls the faces of neighboring nodes
17:48 Calinou it's used in unloaded blocks on the client
17:48 Calinou (so you can't move past an unloaded block)
17:49 Calinou (block = 16×16×16 area in Minetest terminology)
17:49 Fulgen ah
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17:58 swift110 hey all
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18:02 Helenah paramat: Btw, I got dimensions
18:03 swift110 hey all
18:03 Helenah Ohai swift110
18:03 paramat how
18:03 Helenah :)
18:03 Helenah For the nether and the end
18:03 swift110 how are you Helenah
18:04 Helenah swift110: I'm good :)
18:04 Helenah paramat: Someone has already done it
18:04 Helenah Maybe it could be merged
18:04 swift110 good to hear Helenah how long have you been playing minetest
18:05 Helenah A while now
18:05 swift110 thats cool
18:05 Hijiri Helenah: do you mean the thing that places the nether underground
18:05 swift110 I have played it a bit here and there but I have a hard time really getting into it
18:06 Hijiri or something that creates an actual separate map
18:06 Helenah It's a full blown mapgen
18:06 Helenah It places the nether underneath bedrock
18:06 Helenah and the end above the overworld
18:07 Hijiri ok
18:07 Hijiri just asked for clarification
18:07 Helenah swift110: It's not as advanced as Minecraft
18:07 Hijiri "dimensions" has been a development discussion topic, and usually refers to disjoint areas spatially
18:08 Helenah Thing is... it's already been done.
18:08 Helenah All the dev team has to do is take elements
18:08 Helenah paramat: Unless you plan to put in mpv7
18:09 swift110 Helenah, I have never played minecraft
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18:09 Hijiri Helenah: "disjoint areas spatially" was a bad way to describe it
18:09 Helenah swift110: It would be best you don't if you plan to get into Minetest.
18:09 Hijiri basically dimensions means separate maps / worlds
18:09 Hijiri sealing with bedrock sort of does that, but not really
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18:10 Hijiri spatially discontinuous would have been a better way to describe it
18:11 swift110 Helenah, loL! Oh, I am aware. I really admire the minetest project
18:12 Hijiri if you're modding then looking at minecraft mods can be useful for inspiration
18:12 Helenah swift110: Thing is... Minecraft is like 100x more advanced which is why I recommend you don't try it if you wanna get into Minetest.
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18:12 swift110 Helenah, lol I know that already
18:12 Ingar there was even a plain multiworld mod for minecraft
18:12 Helenah I look at the server list and nobody plays on them, most people would take more of a liking to minecraft.
18:12 Ingar kinda handy if you wanted your personal sanxbox
18:13 Ingar *sand
18:13 Hijiri networked singleplayer lol
18:13 swift110 To be fair Minecraft has a lot more people working on it and a lot more exposure than minetest so it clearly has advantages from that standpoit alone
18:13 Hijiri more modders
18:13 Ingar and better name :p
18:14 Ingar (been running an mc server since 2011 or so, also running an empty mt server now :p )
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18:15 Ingar I"m trying to recapture the Tekkit feeling on  mt-technic
18:16 Ingar I like how it runs fine on my pussy ARM vps
18:17 Helenah Has anyone heard of this? https://github.com/Jobava/Voxelands
18:18 Hijiri yes it's dead
18:18 Ingar Helenah: I think it was around the previous time I dabbed into minetest around 2015
18:18 rubenwardy it's a dead Minetest fork, based on 0.3.0
18:18 Helenah hmm
18:19 Krock the gitlab repo is still up; but the website down and developer probably gone
18:21 Helenah What about Freeminer?
18:21 Helenah I'm just seeing what other sandboxes there are in this style
18:21 Hijiri I think it's finished too
18:21 Hijiri it wa salso a minetest fork
18:22 Hijiri terasology is a game that isn't a minetest fork
18:22 Helenah So really, Minetest is leading the open source community with this type of game
18:22 Krock freeminer development stopped and they allowed Minetest to use their GPL licensed code
18:24 Helenah hmm
18:24 paramat a 'nether' mod? i partly wrote the 'pilzadam nether mod'
18:24 Ingar terasology seems to be focused on looking fancy
18:24 Helenah Aaaah
18:24 Helenah Tho... it's not the nether mod
18:24 Hijiri apparently terasology had 9 google summer of code projects
18:26 paramat ok, what mod are you referring to?
18:26 paramat luckily we avoided that summer code code thing
18:26 Helenah It's the mapgen in mineclone 2
18:26 Helenah They have used things from the nether mod
18:26 Hijiri https://forum.terasology.org/threads/gsoc-2018-multiple-worlds.2168/
18:27 Hijiri maybe it would be useful for Minetest to do GSOC too
18:27 Helenah but they have combined it together with an end
18:27 Hijiri then there would be money and structured development
18:27 Hijiri (for some particular feature)
18:28 Helenah GSOC?
18:28 Hijiri google summer of code
18:28 Hijiri https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/how-it-works/
18:28 Hijiri it looks like terasology is doing a bunch of GSOC projects for different features (including dimensions, which is something people have been asking for in Minetest for a while)
18:29 timdorohin Ingar: terasology can't work on my notebook even on lowest settings
18:29 Hijiri I bet VAEs could fall under a GSOC project too
18:29 Hijiri has registering Minetest with GSoC been discussed before?
18:29 paramat ahh
18:30 Krock CSgO?
18:30 Krock the letters are there, just different order
18:30 Helenah But it uses java :/
18:30 paramat gsoc has been discussed yes, i was -1
18:30 Helenah The whole reason why I chose Minetest was cause I hate Java
18:31 Hijiri counter strike / grand order
18:31 Hijiri right
18:31 Hijiri why do you hate java
18:31 Hijiri do you hate java or hate the program being slow
18:31 Krock hate being java
18:31 Ingar it has no default implementation for virtual methods
18:31 Helenah Because it's stupid
18:32 Helenah It's far from low footprint
18:32 Hijiri Ingar: I think in most cases you don't want implementation inheritance
18:32 Helenah Everything is a class and in an archive
18:32 Helenah and it has to flush it memory
18:32 Krock well, C# isn't any better there if someone has the idea to compare them
18:32 Ingar Hijiri: I like C++ :p
18:32 Helenah Lol
18:32 Helenah these sandboxes in Java wont run on my P4
18:32 Helenah Minetest does cause it's C++ and Lua
18:33 Hijiri I prefer C++, but I think implementation inheritance should still be avoided in most cases
18:33 Hijiri anyway maybe I will try to bring up gsoc again when org applications open
18:35 Cornelia Oí..
18:35 Cornelia Me gusta Java. :P
18:35 Hijiri minetest should have been done in haskell
18:35 rubenwardy lol
18:35 Cornelia Ah.. so that's where your loyalties lie. :P
18:35 Ingar haskell is on my exorcism list
18:36 rubenwardy I hate Java
18:36 swift110 Helenah, hating java is fine whatever works with you
18:36 rubenwardy Kotlin is love though
18:36 Cornelia Oí!
18:36 swift110 rubenwardy, anything new on your site?
18:36 Cornelia Me gusta Java! :P
18:36 rubenwardy eerr, not really
18:36 Helenah swift110: It's silly
18:36 rubenwardy added a time line
18:37 Helenah So any new feature plans for 5.0.0-dev?
18:38 rubenwardy !dev Changelog
18:38 MinetestBot "Note that not all changes made to the code between releases are listed here." - http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog
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18:43 Helenah hmm
18:45 paramat see the issues and PRs labelled 'blocker'
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18:50 swift110 Helenah, oh ok
18:50 swift110 rubenwardy, i loved your poster that you was showig to folks
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