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IRC log for #minetest, 2018-08-07

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Time Nick Message
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06:33 AlexYst Does Minetest have any C in it, or only C++? Github is claiming in the language breakdown that 9.2% Minetest is written in regular C.
06:33 AlexYst I mean, not that it actually matters. Who even cares what Github thinks. I'm just mildly curious.
06:57 ANAND There's a sha256.c in src/util
06:58 ANAND That certainly doesn't make up 9.2% of the whole repo all by itself though, hmm...
06:59 ANAND Maybe all .h files are assumed to be C?
07:04 wilkgr These are the files it assumes to be C: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/search?l=c
07:05 wilkgr and these are the files it assumes to be C++: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/search?l=c%2B%2B
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07:10 ANAND Ah, the embedded lua of course
07:58 AlexYst Thanks wilkgr! I dind't know about that search option.
07:58 AlexYst Oh, you're already gone. I was too late.
08:09 AlexYst Okay, so I'm working with a super-legacy version of Minetest at the moment. I'm working on a huge project, and I want to add nodes with the feel of Minetest versions both old and new. Most of the things I'm adding will be made to fit in with 0.4.17, but some made to be reminiscent of older versions will be present too. Seven items will look like they belong in 0.4.0, so I've compiled 0.4.0 to play on and
08:09 AlexYst get the feel of that era of the game.
08:10 AlexYst I've got to bring my minestats mod back in time with me though, as my project depends on that mod heavily. So I'm needing to re-invent new features using 0.4.0's API so minestats will run.
08:10 AlexYst I just found a hilarious quirk.
08:11 AlexYst 0.4.0 allowed you to look at the number of items in a stack (ItemStack:get_count()), but you can't change the number (there is no ItemStack:set_count()).
08:12 AlexYst This'll be an interesting puzzle. I'll need to find a way to indirectly set the count.
08:13 AlexYst Huh. Newer versions of minestats are palette-aware. I wonder if that code will effectively be commented out due to a lack of paletted nodes or if I'll need to build a workaround for that as well.
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09:44 air any authors of inventory nodes or transfer nodes interested in this? https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20624
10:08 rubenwardy IcyDiamond °
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12:53 yusf[m] air: I read the readme and I like the ambition but I'm wondering, how is it not https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png ?
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13:11 air yusf[m]: that is one way to look at it
13:11 air but it is a better standard than the others :)
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13:14 Krock each and every standard is better than all other
13:17 air the others are controlled by the transfer nodes, this moves control to the inventory nodes
13:18 Krock L40-L118 could be shortened with one local function and a loop to probably 15 lines
13:20 air what?
13:30 air and are there any API mods that dont provide any nodes or items?
13:31 Krock https://pastebin.com/raw/iJZheLSH
13:32 air won't that slow down the functions?
13:32 Krock yes, there are vector libraries around
13:32 Krock only a bit, due to initializing args, unpack and two string concat
13:33 Krock but that's not a concern
13:33 Krock Disclaimer: Untested.
13:33 air performance is always a concern
13:33 air and I meant API mods that do what this mod does
13:33 Krock Do you plan to spam-call this a million times per server step?
13:34 Krock just wondering
13:35 air the wrappers are already more bloat than I would like
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13:36 deltasquared ok, daft question time - if I do an async emerge of an area and pass some callback, will all LBMs of nodes in that area be processed before the callback is fired?
13:37 deltasquared the idea was to load an area and get an LBM to flag certain nodes in that area, then check if any appeared in the callback.
13:37 deltasquared without having to scan the entire area for said node, that is
13:37 deltasquared (which I guess the engine does internally anyway, but why duplicate work?)
13:37 air put a print in LBM and callback, see what order it happens
13:38 deltasquared air: I guess I could do that, but I wanted to know if that ordering was guaranteed to be consistent or not
13:38 deltasquared guess I'd have to go source diving again
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14:13 notanewbie Hey guys
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14:14 Krock hello
14:14 notanewbie I've been browsing the forums recently, and I've noticed that there's been a lot of buzz surrounding Minetest 0.5, is that to be the next release?
14:14 notanewbie Hey Krock
14:14 Krock no, 0.5 won't be released
14:15 Krock explanation: version scheme change to 5.0
14:15 notanewbie Makes sense
14:15 notanewbie So there will be no Minetest 1?
14:16 deltasquared how intriguing. I should read the news on MT more... I was out of the loop on that detail
14:17 notanewbie Thanks for the update BTW
14:17 notanewbie 👊🏾
14:17 * twoelk still opposes the mega version jump :-D
14:17 notanewbie 😁
14:18 notanewbie Honestly we should progress towards version 1, IMO
14:18 notanewbie But working with version numbers above 1 is better than working with version numbers below 1.
14:19 twoelk unternull is a nice game though :-P
14:19 Krock twoelk: needs some german knowledge to understand this pun
14:19 notanewbie Here's the thing: Minetest game is boring and has no difficulty.
14:20 notanewbie How long til mobs ship with the game?
14:20 notanewbie I don't think we can entice Minecraft players to switch if the default game has no difficulty.
14:20 twoelk minetest game is not supposed to be anywhere near all that minetest has to offer
14:20 notanewbie The only way to die is to jump off a cliff or drown
14:20 notanewbie twoelk: werd
14:21 notanewbie But it shouldn't be on the other side of the planet
14:21 notanewbie It should be enjoyable, with a sense of adventure. I don't get that from Minetest Game.
14:22 twoelk search the games thread in forum or look here https://wiki.minetest.net/List_of_Games
14:22 notanewbie That there is the problem.
14:23 notanewbie We tell people to join Minetest and run out and get a bunch of stuff.
14:23 deltasquared notanewbie: you feel the user should have a better out of the box experience I see?
14:23 notanewbie Yes!!!
14:23 deltasquared I have to admit I'm on the fence about this one
14:23 twoelk in mt 000000000.5 you will be able to download games in the main menu
14:23 notanewbie Really?
14:24 notanewbie I sure hope so.
14:24 notanewbie 🙏🏾
14:24 deltasquared twoelk: so like the server list? sounds cool
14:24 notanewbie Yeah
14:24 twoelk this will be part of main menu https://content.minetest.net/
14:24 deltasquared twoelk: should we call it MT 5.0E-9 and be done with it? sounds cooler like that too ;)
14:26 deltasquared oh cool, IcyDiamond managed to pull through with the TC clone, nice to see
14:26 hecks So why the version bloat?
14:26 notanewbie 👆🏾
14:26 notanewbie What he said
14:26 hecks Don't tell me it's "because minekraft is on X.Y"
14:27 notanewbie That's why I like jumping to 5
14:27 notanewbie Fewer syllables to pronounce 😉
14:27 notanewbie Minetest vs. Minecraft:
14:27 notanewbie Minecraft: Batteries are included
14:28 notanewbie Minetest: Batteries not included AND some assembly required
14:28 hecks Inflating to 5.0 won't make it any less broken
14:29 notanewbie But it's better from an optics perspective. And promotion.
14:29 hecks also, I'm not sure if I'd want to attract the kind of people who don't want a 0.5, if I were the devs
14:29 hecks unless they wanna be swamped with feature requests for things like
14:29 hecks like
14:29 hecks I'm not even gonna spell it out not to give them ideas
14:30 notanewbie 😂
14:30 deltasquared I'm a bit in the dark about this particular cryptic
14:30 deltasquared whisper it to me
14:30 * notanewbie whispers
14:30 hecks no
14:30 notanewbie 😂
14:30 hecks some things are better left buried
14:31 deltasquared dude I'm not gonna start endless feature requests promise :P
14:31 twoelk mt is like a sack of lego - you can build any type of game you want. mc is like a doll you might find new clothes for but you are on your own fitting the arms back on that need to be taken of during the process
14:31 notanewbie I am praying for the day when Minetest can be "get it and go" software.
14:31 notanewbie That's not the best analogy
14:32 hecks it is already get it and go, as far as servers are concerned
14:32 twoelk make a better one :-D
14:32 notanewbie True
14:32 hecks the server is the game
14:32 notanewbie Oh I see
14:32 notanewbie But single player should be fun too
14:32 notanewbie IMHO
14:32 hecks take it up with minetest_game maintainers
14:32 hecks I wash my hands of it
14:32 notanewbie Nah, they won't listen to me
14:33 deltasquared it is possible they don't have the time to direct to every suggestion however
14:33 notanewbie Right
14:33 notanewbie But all I want are mobs.
14:33 twoelk code a convincing engine side mob-api and it will be in
14:34 notanewbie Okay, I want weather too, but that's not as important.
14:34 deltasquared a non-trivial addition. have you ever tried writing a decent mob AI?
14:34 hecks https://a.uguu.se/zu3BZX1qYkF4_mibi.png I have
14:34 deltasquared for a measuring stick, I don't consider mobs redo to be decent AI.
14:34 twoelk see
14:34 notanewbie twoelk: what? Why not include an existing mod and include it with the Minetest Game mods?
14:34 twoelk has been done several times
14:34 deltasquared twoelk: why's it gotta be engine side
14:34 hecks because someone has to maintain it
14:34 hecks also, some things are missing engine side for mobs
14:35 notanewbie Aren't mods maintainable?
14:35 deltasquared such as? (genuine curiosity)
14:35 hecks there's no "spawn things dynamically as a mapblock is loaded" api
14:35 hecks there's no api for unloading the very same objects
14:35 hecks pathfinding sucks
14:35 hecks that's off the top of my head
14:35 notanewbie Aren't people working on that?
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14:35 notanewbie I thought I saw somebody working on better pathfinding
14:35 hecks shrug
14:35 twoelk see, lots of problems to be solved
14:35 hecks I don't know
14:35 hecks I guess some easier coroutine / async stuff would also be useful for mobs
14:36 notanewbie The mobs that are out there aren't even bad
14:36 hecks they're horrible
14:36 notanewbie Not really
14:36 notanewbie Not all of them
14:36 notanewbie Simple mobs is fine
14:36 deltasquared the elemental ones (stone/dirt/sand... where were they from) I like, it fits MT better
14:36 deltasquared the animals... look, well, out of place
14:36 notanewbie YEAH
14:37 notanewbie True
14:37 hecks anyway, there's no point to making good mobs if you can't make good combat
14:37 notanewbie There are some great mob mods with just plain awful skins
14:37 hecks as it stands, the engine is woefully lacking here
14:37 notanewbie hecks: what do you mean, good combat
14:37 deltasquared hecks: combat... hmm, care to give an example?
14:37 deltasquared crits? enchantments? swing timing?
14:38 hecks anything animation related
14:38 twoelk and again a nice list to study https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods:Mobs
14:38 deltasquared hrm, I sorta agree on that one, but it's a little subjective
14:38 hecks I'd like to do something more than WASD+M1 with a repeating "whack" animation of a wieldmodel
14:38 deltasquared hecks: so wield animations
14:38 hecks not just that
14:38 hecks and I will do more, it's just that minetest isn't making it easy for me
14:38 notanewbie Hmm
14:39 notanewbie Wait, what do you do?
14:39 hecks there's the problem of animation retriggering, animation sync, rollback, animation events
14:39 notanewbie Yeah
14:39 hecks locking a player during an animation, locking and modifying player physics in general
14:39 hecks root motion
14:39 paramat we're moving to 5.0.0 because: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6073#issuecomment-396188132 onwards. we're intentionally avoiding associations and expectations created by 1.0.0, and '1.0.0' as in 'complete, finished, released' is meaningless for MT anyway
14:39 twoelk pfff
14:39 hecks bone-to-bone parenting, anything-to-bone parenting that isn't screwed (already submitted the issue)
14:40 deltasquared hecks: player physics, oof I feel that one. I have to resort to entity attachment to toss players
14:40 hecks this engine has some really nice voxel and scripting and interactivity and simulation stuff
14:40 hecks but it fails HARD with basic gameplay features
14:41 twoelk so all a good mob should do according to heck is offer a good fight :-)
14:41 twoelk minetest the monster-fighting simulater
14:42 notanewbie Yeah
14:42 notanewbie I guess
14:42 notanewbie Which I'm not opposed to
14:42 hecks https://a.uguu.se/eHzBiKSajoXI_wasd.gif
14:42 twoelk actually in my mc years I always turned of the monsters
14:43 notanewbie But that's not the #1 goal of mobs
14:43 notanewbie hecks: so you won't be happy til we have T-Rated Japanese RPG
14:44 notanewbie -style NPCs?
14:44 notanewbie Nah
14:44 notanewbie Doesn't fit MT OR MC
14:44 twoelk I would rather have better npc
14:44 notanewbie Me too
14:44 hecks I won't be happy as long as I still have to do ugly hacks in order to do this: https://a.uguu.se/gf1bnIDQNL0g_retrigger.gif
14:44 notanewbie And making it look, ahem, pretty, doesn't make it better
14:44 hecks and what I put in my subgame is my business
14:44 twoelk and neutral mobs moving in herds or flocks :-)
14:45 notanewbie twoelk: yeah that sounds great
14:45 notanewbie hecks: and dude that animation is INSANE
14:45 notanewbie A little fast, but that was really cool.
14:45 hecks I'm hitting the mob over and over
14:45 hecks the point is, minetest will NOT let you do that normally
14:46 notanewbie Hmm
14:46 hecks no, I have to play a 1-frame "entry" animation or else it'll "cleverly" assume it's already playing this one, and will not restart it
14:46 notanewbie I think animations aren't a huge deal ATM
14:46 hecks even though it's not looping
14:46 hecks as long as all you wanna do is play blocks with cross-eyed block characters, sure
14:47 notanewbie They shouldn't be cross-eyed!!!!
14:47 hecks I'm obviously referencing mein kraft here
14:47 twoelk https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16557 more blocky design mobs
14:47 paramat as for MTGame, optional mobs, weather, are intended and will probably happen, it's just a case of dev time. the MTG devs are swamped by huge amounts of other work. MTG has much improved recently but it takes time
14:47 hecks the point is that minetest_game should not be the limit of the engine
14:48 deltasquared hecks: oh I see, so you can't refire an animation if it's already running... hmm. a flag to ask for this behaviour (or rather not, because the default is API now) wouldn't seem too hard
14:48 twoelk eh?
14:48 notanewbie twoelk: that mod looks bad***, Imma download it when I get home
14:48 hecks I won't be starting an issue for it, I'll just fix it myself if nobody else does
14:49 twoelk no animation though
14:49 notanewbie paramat: werd, can't deny the game hasn't gotten better!
14:49 paramat MT makes it easy for people to make their own games, and we are asking for new games, so people can make them with what they feel is missing
14:49 hecks or maybe it's another of those upstream bugs where irrlicht is broken and you're boned
14:49 twoelk if anything, mt-game is designed as base
14:49 hecks a base, but not a mandatory base
14:49 twoelk it was never supposed to be complete
14:49 notanewbie What if there was a menu to download new games?
14:50 deltasquared there is going to be, apparently
14:50 hecks isn't there one in the works?
14:50 twoelk there is in mt-5
14:50 notanewbie Is there a Dev for it out
14:50 notanewbie I wanna see this...
14:50 twoelk ?
14:50 deltasquared dunno about compiled binaries for a dev version
14:50 hecks https://minetest.kitsunemimi.pw/builds/
14:50 hecks knock yourselves out
14:50 notanewbie Okay
14:50 hecks real men build their own
14:50 * notanewbie is AFK. Knocked self out
14:51 twoelk https://content.minetest.net/ is the database to be included in mt-5
14:51 deltasquared instructions unclear, head impaled on bathroom cabinet
14:52 hecks Will that database inherit the forum's "only free software" rule?
14:53 twoelk sigh - you missed all the discussion?
14:53 hecks I don't read forums
14:53 * notanewbie has regained consciousness
14:54 notanewbie twoelk: That DB looks pretty cool!
14:57 twoelk this applies to mods anyways https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1271
14:58 hecks only for posting them, it's not like you're gonna come and beat me up if I don't release source
14:58 notanewbie 😂
14:58 hecks I'm pretty sure I won't be banned from the master server either, though let's not give anyone ideas
14:58 notanewbie 😏
14:58 hecks also, I don't see your cancerous emoji, so don't bother with those
14:59 notanewbie Oh, okay. My bad
14:59 notanewbie That's what I get for using an IRC client on Android
14:59 hecks oh, I'm sure if I were really depraved, I could get those to render
15:00 hecks I'm sure most people's systems do
15:00 notanewbie Actually, probably not
15:00 Krock ��� ��� �� �� �� ���� ������� ��������
15:00 hecks hopefully not, you mean
15:00 notanewbie What the what did you enter???
15:01 notanewbie hecks: it's probably a 40/60 or 35/65 split rn
15:01 Krock do you get it? :D
15:01 hecks just a unicode exploit targeting android, better put your phone in the microwave right now
15:01 notanewbie I doubt it
15:01 Krock I only use microwaves for sending stuff back to the past
15:01 notanewbie My phone woulda crashed by now
15:02 hecks put it in anyway, it'll make it run faster
15:02 hecks trust me i'm a programmer
15:02 deltasquared it'll excite the electrons! :P
15:02 notanewbie You guys are ridiculous
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15:04 Krock 1970: I'm sure in 2016 there will be flying cars
15:04 Krock 2016: "Microwaving A Microwave Microwaving A Toaster" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntlG5XgYg4k
15:05 Krock actually wanted to link the professional made "iPhone made out of sand using a microwave" video but can't find it right now
15:05 notanewbie I predict that Donald Trump will win the 2016 election.
15:05 notanewbie After that, Obama will win in 2012.
15:05 Krock pastdict is the correct word
15:06 deltasquared Krock: postdict?
15:06 deltasquared as opposed to pre-dict
15:06 Krock yes. post. typo.
15:08 deltasquared I wonder what it would take in the engine to be able to nudge objects and such by walking into them.
15:09 deltasquared I guess rn there must be some bounding box collision detection, but it's not exposed.
15:10 twoelk ask paramat to add bumper car pysics to his powerslide mod
15:10 deltasquared !mod powerslide
15:10 MinetestBot deltasquared: Could not find anything.
15:10 deltasquared twoelk: pointer please? ^
15:11 deltasquared inb4 modpack
15:11 deltasquared google gives me... nothing.
15:11 deltasquared literally no results. welp
15:12 hecks it would take nothing to do that
15:12 hecks just check aabb and modify velocity, what's the issue?
15:12 twoelk https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20619 driftcar it was
15:14 Krock !mod also finds modpacks, games and CSMs if the forum titles are formatted correctly
15:15 twoelk !mod driftcar ?
15:15 MinetestBot twoelk: Could not find anything.
15:16 twoelk hmm
15:16 twoelk !mod driftcar
15:16 MinetestBot twoelk: Could not find anything.
15:17 twoelk might be too new .-P
15:17 twoelk !mod airboat
15:17 MinetestBot twoelk: Small airship vehicle [airboat] by paramat - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=20485
15:18 notanewbie Looks insane
15:18 paramat "I only use microwaves for sending stuff back to the past" =) i love that too
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15:21 twoelk a remake of the old ms hover demogame in mt ought to be fun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hover!
15:23 Krock twoelk: sounds familiar. any chance that it was contained on a W95 CD as demo version?
15:23 twoelk it was
15:23 Krock paramat: actually it's not my idea but it's funny and interesting altogether
15:24 twoelk browser versio http://www.hover.ie/
15:24 twoelk +n
15:25 deltasquared yay webgl
15:25 Krock til windows.net is a thing
15:27 deltasquared these controls remind me of the bloody recognizers in tron 2.0 for the GBA... ooeck. that drifting
15:28 deltasquared heh, making that as an MT mod might be pretty fun actually
15:29 deltasquared anyways, IRL things to attend.
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15:36 paramat Krock i mean i'm a stein's gate fan
15:37 Krock Yay! Found another fellow :D
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