| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:04 |
entuland |
okay, helping on the C++ side isn't feasible right now for me, I don't want to get lost in the "backend" before even getting a decent grasp on the "frontend", so to say |
| 00:04 |
entuland |
I'll stick to Lua modding for the moment :P |
| 00:09 |
paramat |
i can't recall any mod that creates a mesh in-game |
| 00:10 |
paramat |
it's a good idea to look at mods to see what is possible, then alter a mod that is similar |
| 00:11 |
entuland |
nice, then mine will be the first, unless someone far more experienced than me manages to release one such a mod earlier :) I'm glad this channel is logged ahahahah |
| 00:11 |
entuland |
oh that mention of pipeworks was for the workaround |
| 00:11 |
paramat |
the ease of Lua comes at the cost of more limitations compared to MC 'modding' |
| 00:12 |
entuland |
if I could fake the mesh with multiple smaller wool blocks I could work around the lack of meshes loaded at runtime |
| 00:12 |
entuland |
but I doubt event the technique used by pipeworks could scale to the amount of blocks I may need in theory |
| 00:12 |
entuland |
even* |
| 00:13 |
entuland |
such a workaround would be just until the worlds gets restarted |
| 00:13 |
entuland |
when it does, said blocks would use the actual .obj |
| 00:14 |
paramat |
even if you do have to restart a world your intended mod will still be useful as a meshnode creator |
| 00:14 |
entuland |
yep |
| 00:15 |
paramat |
.. even if you can't see the new node at proper size until after the restart |
| 00:16 |
entuland |
the .obj format and its UV mapping are pretty simple, using a default texture with only the colors of the wool will simplify it as well |
| 00:17 |
entuland |
I suspect the trickiest thing will be ensuring a decent optimization of the mesh without useless faces |
| 00:17 |
entuland |
(say, merging 4 sub-voxel faces with the same color) |
| 00:18 |
entuland |
too bad I get inspired about such things at 2AM when I need to get up early :P |
| 00:18 |
entuland |
will be for tomorrow, hopefully |
| 00:19 |
entuland |
yep, I'll call it a day |
| 00:19 |
entuland |
thanks everybody for chatting |
| 00:19 |
entuland |
have fun! |
| 00:22 |
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| 00:50 |
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| 00:51 |
Stix_ |
hi, anyone who works on here? (that isnt afk) |
| 00:51 |
Stix_ |
hello? |
| 00:52 |
Stix_ |
i have a coupld questions concerning 0.5-dev if anyones listening |
| 00:52 |
Stix_ |
*couple |
| 00:52 |
Stix_ |
*anyone who works on mt here? |
| 00:53 |
Stix_ |
@sofar |
| 01:10 |
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| 01:16 |
Stix_ |
@ANAND hi |
| 01:17 |
ANAND |
Hey Stix! |
| 01:17 |
Stix_ |
@ANAND i got a couple questions for you if you arent busy |
| 01:17 |
ANAND |
Sure, ask out |
| 01:18 |
Stix_ |
ok i was watching a unofficial preview of 0.5-dev, and it looked like coral is an entity and thats why it can be flooded with water, is that true? |
| 01:18 |
Stix_ |
i figured you'd know because you play 0.5-dev |
| 01:18 |
Stix_ |
@ANAND you there still? |
| 01:19 |
ANAND |
Not sure 'bout that, since I don't use 0.5-dev that much |
| 01:20 |
ANAND |
I'll check |
| 01:21 |
Stix_ |
i wonder why they are adding a special sapling for the larger jungle tree instead of just making it a chance to generate either one with the same saplng |
| 01:21 |
Stix_ |
also did you hear the new snow footsteps sound? its amazing! |
| 01:21 |
ANAND |
Stix, corals are just normal nodes |
| 01:21 |
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| 01:21 |
Stix_ |
then how are they flooded? |
| 01:22 |
Stix_ |
oh im sorry, i meant seeweed |
| 01:22 |
ANAND |
ah |
| 01:22 |
Stix_ |
not coral xD |
| 01:23 |
Stix_ |
@ANAND what about seaweed? (thats what i had meant to say). |
| 01:24 |
ANAND |
Haven't seen it yet, but they're definitely not entities |
| 01:25 |
ANAND |
afk now |
| 01:25 |
ANAND |
sorry |
| 01:25 |
Stix_ |
oki bye |
| 01:29 |
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| 04:25 |
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| 04:25 |
Miner_Joe |
How does one get Landrush to work on 0.5.0? |
| 04:26 |
Miner_Joe |
I've seen 2 servers with it running quite well. |
| 04:37 |
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| 08:01 |
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| 08:20 |
andirc8000 |
I have a quick question: does minetest store only user-placed blocks in a db (and leave the rest of the blocks for world-generation function (mapgen (?)) to be generated on the fly)? Or does it store also some non-user-placed blocks in db? And if yes, then can I clean them up (to reduce db size)? |
| 08:23 |
Vapalus |
Doesn't minetest store them all because generating stuff costs CPU? |
| 08:24 |
Vapalus |
I thought of it like it's a picture, you draw it, then you save it, and if you want to change something, you re-open it, change it and save it again |
| 08:30 |
ANAND |
Only the nodes that are generated by the mapgen will be stored |
| 08:32 |
andirc8000 |
ANAND: can I clean them up? (and leave specically only user-placed blocks in the db (to reduce db size (because mapgen can regenerate them again no need to store those in db disk-space-concerned)))? |
| 08:33 |
ANAND |
That's not possible AFAIK |
| 08:33 |
Out`Of`Control |
you can delete parts of map. Look in forum how |
| 08:34 |
Out`Of`Control |
map = db |
| 08:34 |
ANAND |
Out`Of`Control, andirc8000 wants the mapgen to re-generate the same terrain after deletion |
| 08:34 |
andirc8000 |
ANAND: so if I walk 10km south it bloats up db size? |
| 08:34 |
ANAND |
if that area hasn't been generated yet, then yes |
| 08:35 |
andirc8000 |
ANAND: #$@? I have no extra gigs to spare idk about speed I can wait for 10 seconds for mapgen to regenerate me terrain ahead when I walk (like the first time when I created the world) I don't like to waste those GB's on my hd for each world though each time I walk 10km south |
| 08:36 |
andirc8000 |
or at least there got to be some way to clean-up non-user-placed blocks |
| 08:36 |
andirc8000 |
from db * |
| 08:37 |
andirc8000 |
to 'shrink' db size etc. |
| 08:37 |
ANAND |
Even if it's possible to delete everything other than user-placed nodes, the mapgen won't generate the same terrain over and over again, for a particular map-block |
| 08:37 |
Out`Of`Control |
andirc8000: you could save areas, and load later? |
| 08:38 |
andirc8000 |
ANAND: it has the same 'seed' |
| 08:38 |
ANAND |
oh |
| 08:39 |
ANAND |
I'm sorry for misleading you |
| 08:40 |
ANAND |
But still, MT doesn't differentiate between user-placed blocks and mapgen-created blocks |
| 08:41 |
ANAND |
So if you do delete an area, the user-placed blocks would be gone too |
| 08:41 |
andirc8000 |
<ANAND> But still, MT doesn't differentiate between user-placed blocks and mapgen-created blocks <== you sure about that? |
| 08:41 |
andirc8000 |
that's a pity. |
| 08:41 |
ANAND |
yes |
| 08:42 |
andirc8000 |
why is there no such a flag? |
| 08:42 |
ANAND |
the seed doesn't account for user-placed blocks |
| 08:43 |
andirc8000 |
(flag which indicates whether a node was user-placed or auto-generated by mapgen (in db I mean))? |
| 08:43 |
ANAND |
Well idk |
| 08:43 |
ANAND |
Discuss with the devs if this can be implemented |
| 08:43 |
ANAND |
and if possible make a PR for the same |
| 08:51 |
Hillbilly |
andirc8000, better to just prevent that map from being generated in the first place when possible |
| 08:52 |
ANAND |
agreed |
| 08:52 |
andirc8000 |
Hillbilly: why I care about disk space and I like to walk 'infinite' distances. |
| 08:52 |
andirc8000 |
(in my mt world) |
| 08:52 |
ANAND |
..... |
| 08:53 |
andirc8000 |
don't need to bloat db size for that (ideally) |
| 08:53 |
Vapalus |
then you need infinite hard drive space |
| 08:53 |
ANAND |
true |
| 08:53 |
Hillbilly |
andirc8000, storage is cheaper than ram/cpu |
| 08:53 |
Vapalus |
normally I cannot imagine that it should be a problem |
| 08:54 |
Vapalus |
even with my brother and my sister travelling long, long distances for several days it wasn't much of a hassle |
| 08:54 |
ANAND |
andirc8000, only the areas near a player will be generated |
| 08:54 |
Hillbilly |
if its really an issue just get a decent usb drive and store your map data on it |
| 08:54 |
andirc8000 |
Hillbilly: ? |
| 08:54 |
ANAND |
andirc8000, how large is your map DB exactly? |
| 08:55 |
andirc8000 |
Hillbilly: no it's not - you have a finite hd space I like my hd free space. |
| 08:55 |
Hillbilly |
thats why i'm saying not to store it on your hd |
| 08:55 |
ANAND |
XD |
| 08:55 |
crazyR |
Does anyone here use mtsatellite |
| 08:56 |
ANAND |
no sorry |
| 08:56 |
andirc8000 |
ANAND: let's say it's 11MB when I placed 2 blocks (while ideally it should be, like, ~2K) |
| 08:56 |
Hillbilly |
or more creatively, us worldedit to store you builds and just start with a new map |
| 08:56 |
andirc8000 |
(because of those 2 blocks) |
| 08:57 |
andirc8000 |
e.g I approx. that each placed/removed by user block would take ~1kb in db size |
| 08:57 |
Hillbilly |
were worried about mb here? i assumed we were talking about 10-12 gb maps :P |
| 08:57 |
ANAND |
lol |
| 08:58 |
Vapalus |
Dude, if you are worried about MB - how old are you? |
| 08:58 |
ANAND |
andirc8000, 11 MB = the two blocks you placed + all the generated map-blocks |
| 08:58 |
Vapalus |
I just bought 4 TB for 90 bucks |
| 08:59 |
ANAND |
Magnetic storage is actually getting cheaper |
| 08:59 |
Vapalus |
And I've never, NEVER seen a map going above 5 Gigs. |
| 08:59 |
Vapalus |
So, you can store about 1000 maps on 90 bucks |
| 08:59 |
Vapalus |
thats 9 cent of storage per map |
| 09:00 |
Hillbilly |
i have on public servers, but shouldn't be as much an issue for single player map |
| 09:00 |
andirc8000 |
ANAND: and I want/curious about a way compact that to 2kb |
| 09:00 |
Vapalus |
if you have a server with 20 players |
| 09:00 |
ANAND |
andirc8000, simple answer: you can't (as of now) |
| 09:00 |
andirc8000 |
ANAND: ok. |
| 09:00 |
andirc8000 |
ANAND: you know that for sure (as a minetest dev?)? |
| 09:00 |
crazyR |
5GB.... thats a small map.. ethicrush server map is just short of 3.5GB and that is only a couple of months old since the wipe |
| 09:01 |
ANAND |
andirc8000, I'm not a Minetest dev, but you can certainly double-check with them |
| 09:02 |
crazyR |
also size depends on storage/compression methods too |
| 09:02 |
ANAND |
But seriously, if the size of your world is in the order of MB, just delete a couple of useless videos here and there |
| 09:02 |
Vapalus |
It depends on a lot of things. |
| 09:02 |
ANAND |
et voila, you get space for 5 more maps! :D |
| 09:03 |
Vapalus |
ANAND: I think he was talking about theoretically improving it |
| 09:03 |
Vapalus |
But, to jump on the train, it is much cheaper to store everything than to re-generate it |
| 09:03 |
ANAND |
<andirc8000> Hillbilly: no it's not - you have a finite hd space I like my hd free space. |
| 09:04 |
Vapalus |
Energy-wise, CPUs cost a lot more than HDDs, and when you buy it, same. |
| 09:04 |
ANAND |
andirc8000 seems to prioritize on conserving their storage |
| 09:04 |
ANAND |
afk for a bit |
| 09:09 |
Hillbilly |
i have played on mt on chromebook quite a lot and keep a handful of testworlds for mod development at any given time. with only 16gb of storage, including what is used by my os i've never had storage issues with mt. likely its other stuff on your hd that is taking up more than its fair share |
| 09:14 |
Vapalus |
Considering that minetest keeps crashing from time to time, I guess saving 2 kb is not their main priority :P |
| 09:19 |
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| 09:21 |
Hillbilly |
Vapaplus are you sure its not a mod? minetest is fairly stable otherwise |
| 09:21 |
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| 09:23 |
ANAND |
"fairly stable" :P |
| 09:24 |
Vapalus |
well, the "fairly" is the point |
| 09:25 |
Hillbilly |
stable as in it doesn't typically crash on its own, fairly, as it, unless we are talking about dev build or some un-ordinary circumstances. |
| 09:25 |
Vapalus |
if you're playing a game, one crash per 3 hours can be a bit disturbing - if you consider that you need about 3 hours to find whatever you were just searching for. |
| 09:26 |
Vapalus |
And LUA gamemodes can't be considered mods. They are intended to be there. |
| 09:27 |
Hillbilly |
not sure i follow. are you referring to minetest_game or other games? |
| 09:28 |
ANAND |
wait... one crash every three hours? o_O |
| 09:28 |
Hillbilly |
i've never experienced anything like that |
| 09:28 |
ANAND |
Hillbilly, Vapalus must be referring to (sub-)games |
| 09:29 |
Hillbilly |
i assume so |
| 09:30 |
Hillbilly |
which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with minetest itself, as far as those crashes go |
| 09:30 |
Vapalus |
Nope, original games |
| 09:30 |
Vapalus |
minetest_game |
| 09:31 |
Hillbilly |
do you have errors messages? other mods loaded? |
| 09:31 |
Vapalus |
only mod, my own - which isn't too complicated. It's not a LUA crash, the whole game just stops working. |
| 09:31 |
ANAND |
something is quite wrong if you get 1 crash every three hours |
| 09:31 |
ANAND |
did you check your debug.txt? |
| 09:31 |
Vapalus |
Maybe, I'm a windows user |
| 09:31 |
Vapalus |
debug is empty |
| 09:31 |
Hillbilly |
thats the bug :P |
| 09:31 |
Vapalus |
well, at least in this case, no message |
| 09:31 |
ANAND |
uhh... empty? |
| 09:32 |
Vapalus |
"empty" |
| 09:32 |
Vapalus |
there is no error message for the last 10 mins |
| 09:32 |
ANAND |
It just crashes to the OS? |
| 09:32 |
Vapalus |
yupp |
| 09:33 |
Hillbilly |
to be fair, i don't know hoe much testing occurs on windows |
| 09:33 |
Hillbilly |
i'd still be surprised if crashes occur every 3 hours that it is strictly an issue with minetest though |
| 09:34 |
Vapalus |
Seems like the devs don't use Windows themselves |
| 09:34 |
Hillbilly |
no, but surely lots of players do that would submit issues/bug reports |
| 09:34 |
ANAND |
But some prominent contributors do |
| 09:34 |
ANAND |
^ |
| 09:35 |
Vapalus |
What I can guess is that it seems to have to do with the database, and loading/saving chunks. I'll try it out on newer versions (5.x), of course. |
| 09:35 |
ANAND |
Are you using 0.4.17-dev |
| 09:35 |
ANAND |
? |
| 09:35 |
Vapalus |
Because submitting big bugs that only happen on 4.x, and only on my computer, dunno if that's a waste of time |
| 09:36 |
Vapalus |
dunno... |
| 09:36 |
Vapalus |
Don't think I'm into using dev |
| 09:36 |
ANAND |
oh ok |
| 09:37 |
ANAND |
Bc, a recent commit has introduced an issue in 0.4.17-dev which makes the game crash around once in three hours or so... |
| 09:37 |
ANAND |
the time between crashes is not directly related to the issue though |
| 09:38 |
Vapalus |
naw, it's certainly not recent. I didn't have much time for mc the last... 3 months? |
| 09:38 |
Vapalus |
Doing some machine learning bullshit |
| 09:42 |
Vapalus |
It's like watching a toddler throwing down your glass of water |
| 09:46 |
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| 10:05 |
MinetestBot |
[git] lhofhansl -> minetest/minetest: Make sure color returns to normal after a damage flash (#7332) 0cecc1d https://git.io/vpHqa (2018-05-14T10:03:39Z) |
| 10:32 |
rubenwardy |
andirc8000: there's an unexplorer mod |
| 10:33 |
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| 10:34 |
IhrFussel |
Vapalus, if the mods/games are correctly coded and are compatible with your MT version then MT should be able to run *days* without any crash ... the record uptime for mine with 180 mods was 114 hours |
| 10:34 |
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| 10:36 |
IhrFussel |
If debug.txt shows absolutely no errors then it's most likely a segfault (c++ problem) that *could* still be caused by a mod AFAIK |
| 10:47 |
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| 10:56 |
andirc8000 |
rubenwardy: could you elaborate please what u mean? (I couldn't find 'unexplorer' on minetest forums nor via 'googling') |
| 10:56 |
rubenwardy |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10333 |
| 10:57 |
sfan5 |
!title |
| 10:57 |
MinetestBot |
sfan5: Map unexplore python script - Minetest Forums |
| 11:00 |
andirc8000 |
rubenwardy, sfan5: is there a flag in db that indicates whether a node has been placed and or removed by a player (and not by a map gen)? |
| 11:00 |
sfan5 |
no |
| 11:01 |
andirc8000 |
sfan5: well how does then that 'Map unexplore python script' deduct which is a node placed/removed by a user then? (sorry for my english) |
| 11:01 |
sfan5 |
why are you asking me |
| 11:01 |
rubenwardy |
list of nodes that are probably placed by users |
| 11:01 |
andirc8000 |
sfan5: I thought u or rubenwardy might know |
| 11:01 |
rubenwardy |
ie: signs, furnaces, etc |
| 11:01 |
rubenwardy |
read the topic |
| 11:03 |
andirc8000 |
rubenwardy, sfan5: are there any plans in the future to add such flag? (to be able to carefully curate around non-user-creations |
| 11:03 |
sfan5 |
no |
| 11:03 |
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| 11:04 |
rubenwardy |
a per mapblock is more feasible |
| 11:04 |
rubenwardy |
a per mapblock flag is more feasible |
| 11:04 |
IhrFussel |
andirc8000, my server map is 24 GB in size and you complain about a few MB...I find that to be a bit silly |
| 11:04 |
andirc8000 |
rubenwardy, sfan5: I'm sorry to point out 'competitors' but https://github.com/fogleman/Craft does exactly that 'User changes to the world are stored in a sqlite database. Only the delta is stored, so the default world is generated and then the user changes are applied on top when loading.' |
| 11:05 |
rubenwardy |
not really a competitor |
| 11:05 |
sfan5 |
you are welcome to implement that in Minetest |
| 11:05 |
sfan5 |
see you on github |
| 11:05 |
andirc8000 |
rubenwardy: :) |
| 11:06 |
andirc8000 |
sfan5: yep that would be hard using already existing infrastructure (not from scratch) |
| 11:06 |
IhrFussel |
It would be TERRIBLE for lua mapgens |
| 11:06 |
sfan5 |
there are a few arguments against doing this delta thing, but I can't be bothered to repeat them |
| 11:06 |
IhrFussel |
They are already slow |
| 11:06 |
andirc8000 |
sfan5: it might be a useful feature (in the feature) |
| 11:06 |
sfan5 |
pretty sure there's an issue open for this |
| 11:06 |
andirc8000 |
in the future* |
| 11:07 |
rubenwardy |
it should be per-mapblock, not per-node |
| 11:07 |
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| 11:07 |
IhrFussel |
If MT wouldn't store the generated mapblocks anymore lua mapgens would have to re-generate the exact same terrain again everytime |
| 11:07 |
rubenwardy |
I can't find the issue though |
| 11:07 |
rubenwardy |
Github search sucks |
| 11:07 |
andirc8000 |
rubenwardy: ok, still |
| 11:07 |
Out`Of`Control |
andirc8000: adding that would make db only bigger, as i understand you plan to make it smaller |
| 11:08 |
andirc8000 |
rubenwardy: at least flag in db if a 'mapblock' was modified by user or 'just walked into' |
| 11:08 |
andirc8000 |
rubenwardy: but I understand I'm not a dev and just 'blabbering' |
| 11:08 |
rubenwardy |
that's exactly what I meant by per-mapblock |
| 11:08 |
rubenwardy |
please may you stop pinging me |
| 11:08 |
rubenwardy |
I'm already in the room |
| 11:09 |
andirc8000 |
rubenwardy: since I can't really offer my resources to contribute |
| 11:09 |
andirc8000 |
rubenwardy: ? (well I was answering you there are other posters here) |
| 11:10 |
sfan5 |
pinging your conversation partner with every message is not how you use irc |
| 11:12 |
andirc8000 |
sf*n5: am I missing some 'subtle clue' here? |
| 11:12 |
sfan5 |
? |
| 11:14 |
andirc8000 |
r*benwardy: but you're saying that such a future per-mapblock 'should be' and doesn't really exist yet, am I correct? |
| 11:14 |
Out`Of`Control |
that would be horrible future |
| 11:14 |
andirc8000 |
feature* |
| 11:15 |
andirc8000 |
sorry I'm not native enlish speaker sometimes mixing up words |
| 11:15 |
IhrFussel |
andirc8000, you can open an issue about it on github if it doesn't exist yet |
| 11:16 |
IhrFussel |
If it exists you can just comment on it and post it here |
| 11:16 |
Vapalus |
IhrFussel, it was the default gamemode with some of my own codes, and it looked like a segfault during chunk storage. But as I said, It'd be probably better to use the newest version - I haven't played for 3 months. |
| 11:17 |
rubenwardy |
yeah, doesn't exist |
| 11:17 |
rubenwardy |
the feature doesn't |
| 11:18 |
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| 11:19 |
IhrFussel |
Out`Of`Control, if it would be just a flag for each mapblock plus an optional conf setting or command that only clears the non-flagged mapblocks then it could be useful to some I think |
| 11:20 |
Out`Of`Control |
so each node would have extra flag. DB is big enough already |
| 11:20 |
IhrFussel |
No, just one flag per mapblock (16x16x16 nodes) |
| 11:20 |
Vapalus |
Naw, he means "delete everything that wasn't changed, regenerate it when needed" |
| 11:20 |
Vapalus |
kinda when you run around, that you don't store what was generated |
| 11:21 |
Vapalus |
but if you build, it stores it |
| 11:21 |
IhrFussel |
That would make server lag a lot ^ ... implementing it as a "manual check" is better |
| 11:22 |
Out`Of`Control |
so you keep removing then recreating with mapgen.... |
| 11:22 |
Vapalus |
I generally think that using the CPU to reduce load on a hard drive isn't a good idea... |
| 11:22 |
IhrFussel |
The builtin mapgen can already cause 1-2 secs lag with a few mods enabled like moretrees |
| 11:23 |
Vapalus |
It only would make sense if we'd be using the C++ mapgen only |
| 11:23 |
Vapalus |
and if the CPU was strong enough |
| 11:23 |
Out`Of`Control |
its like asking for more bugs |
| 11:23 |
Vapalus |
but telling you the truth, it would remove so many features, like lua mapgeneration, and stuff |
| 11:23 |
IhrFussel |
WAIT it wouldn't even work with lua on_generate() callbacks... because the generated terrain would look different each time |
| 11:24 |
Vapalus |
bingo |
| 11:24 |
IhrFussel |
Not necessarily terrain but decorations |
| 11:24 |
Vapalus |
well, that, and who tells you that the lua generates the same stuff every time |
| 11:24 |
Vapalus |
I'm planning to use random events someday |
| 11:25 |
Vapalus |
well, okay, in this case it would be epic |
| 11:25 |
IhrFussel |
Everything that uses ABMs for mapgen stuff is random by definition |
| 11:25 |
Vapalus |
because if you don't build there, its wilderness, if its wilderness, random events happen again and again |
| 11:26 |
Vapalus |
still, reproduceability is better |
| 11:27 |
Vapalus |
Just out of curiosity, you're already using something to compress data? |
| 11:27 |
Vapalus |
like, PNG |
| 11:27 |
IhrFussel |
I bet the other linked game above doesn't even have a lua API |
| 11:28 |
sfan5 |
Vapalus: mapblock data is compressed with zlib |
| 11:29 |
Vapalus |
guessing it's about 1:10, in average cases? |
| 11:30 |
sfan5 |
no idea |
| 11:32 |
Vapalus |
would be interesting, because zlib uses a library, and... technically, minetest does, too, since every node is actually a number. |
| 11:32 |
Vapalus |
or, generally, "deflate" does. |
| 11:33 |
sfan5 |
"zlib uses a library"??? |
| 11:33 |
Vapalus |
word library for huffman tables |
| 11:33 |
sfan5 |
oh |
| 11:33 |
Vapalus |
dunno, wrong word I guess |
| 11:34 |
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| 12:31 |
Astrobe |
Assuming the decorations are made deterministic, an idea would be to generate mapblocks in RAM only and not save them if they were not changed by the player. No flag in the db required. |
| 12:32 |
Astrobe |
It looses the ABM-changed stuff, but one could bet that nobody would notice. |
| 12:35 |
Astrobe |
that's a lot of work for very little demand though. |
| 12:40 |
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| 12:44 |
andirc8000 |
ok: can someone of the devs comment on my question that i formulated here: http://q118.pen.io ? |
| 12:48 |
sfan5 |
flag inside the db? no |
| 12:48 |
sfan5 |
flag using some external mechanism? probably |
| 12:49 |
andirc8000 |
sfan5: add some attribute? anything? |
| 12:49 |
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| 12:50 |
andirc8000 |
sfan5, ok I can think of creating separate file on disk by the lua mod, to be later read by "mod2" (?) |
| 12:52 |
andirc8000 |
sfan5, maybe create an 'air' node on the coordinate (0,0) of that mapblock with a 'description' of 'used' etc just brainstorming here |
| 12:53 |
sfan5 |
please stop pinging me with every message |
| 12:53 |
andirc8000 |
s*an5: ah yeah sorry |
| 12:53 |
sfan5 |
"s*an5" are you doing this shit on purpose |
| 12:53 |
sfan5 |
just omit the nick |
| 12:54 |
andirc8000 |
sfan5: no, I'm just conversing with you specifically, to omit misunderstanding of 'whom I meant in my message' |
| 12:55 |
sfan5 |
have you heard of the thing called "context"? |
| 12:55 |
sfan5 |
there is no misunderstanding possible |
| 12:55 |
andirc8000 |
sfan5: maybe I should ask that tomorrow too much noise from me today. |
| 12:55 |
sfan5 |
no this is not a reason to postpone your question |
| 12:55 |
sfan5 |
the answer is: yes and air node with meta would work, but that's quite hacky |
| 12:56 |
sfan5 |
s/and/an/ |
| 12:56 |
andirc8000 |
sfan5: oh, there's always a place for misunderstandings we both know that |
| 12:56 |
andirc8000 |
sfan5: :) |
| 12:56 |
andirc8000 |
so, tomorrow. |
| 12:58 |
sfan5 |
I don't know what you are achieving by trying to remove the faintest possibility of misunderstanding about who you are talking to |
| 12:58 |
sfan5 |
well you have successfully annoyed both ruben and me with this |
| 13:00 |
Astrobe |
which option is responsible for the darkening of the sky when one looks towards a dark location? |
| 13:00 |
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| 13:01 |
sfan5 |
there's no option for that |
| 13:01 |
sfan5 |
should be part of the camera code though (?) |
| 13:02 |
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| 13:03 |
Astrobe |
ok, thx. |
| 13:03 |
andirc8000 |
sfan5: I don't like a ban. 2) I think that I'm asking is on topic and is not 'trolling'. 3) I'm just sorry but I fail to get the 'moderator clue' here - (again hoping for an explanation and not a 'ban') -- if we were in a real room and there were 5 people talking in a group I would not understand how would I be annoyed if someone would refer to me by a name (again hoping for an explanation here and not a |
| 13:03 |
andirc8000 |
ban) |
| 13:05 |
Astrobe |
andirc8000: some IRC clients can be configured so that they play a sound when your nickname appears in dialog. |
| 13:05 |
rubenwardy |
in you were in a real room, you'd know who was talking to you by context |
| 13:05 |
rubenwardy |
same here |
| 13:05 |
Astrobe |
That's why what you do could be annoying for sfan5. |
| 13:05 |
rubenwardy |
and that ^ |
| 13:06 |
Astrobe |
oops. Sorry dude. not intentional. |
| 13:06 |
andirc8000 |
Astrobe: so then I woulndn't understand why saying 'sf*n5' would be "'are you doing this shit on purpose?'" |
| 13:07 |
andirc8000 |
Astrobe: that was my solution to 'pinging sound' problem |
| 13:09 |
sfan5 |
that particular comment was because it felt like you were purposefully misunderstanding me |
| 13:11 |
sfan5 |
andirc8000: 1) I'm not going to ban anyone for being annoying 2) the problem is not with the content of your question 3) but there aren't even 5 people talking here (being present does not imply participation, especially on irc) |
| 13:14 |
andirc8000 |
sf*n5 (pinging sound avoiance): ok, call me socially inept wtf (would I really be on irc otherwise? :)) |
| 13:15 |
andirc8000 |
avoidance* |
| 13:16 |
Astrobe |
I think the person you're talking to is quite patient. I would have just /ignore'd you by then. |
| 13:19 |
sfan5 |
I'm not always this patient |
| 13:21 |
andirc8000 |
ok let me just as another precautionary mitigation quit this channel for a day. (please don't ban me in the meantime. thanks.) |
| 13:21 |
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| 13:21 |
lumberJ |
lol |
| 13:22 |
lumberJ |
i have to hope all of that was largely the product of a language-based communication barrier |
| 13:31 |
crazyR |
"I'm not always this patient" sorry but if you call your above response patient.. id hate to see your "non-patient" side.. I understand that constant pinging can be annoying. but it was pretty clear that the guy didn't understand what he was doing wrong. i think in this situation a little More patience was needed. |
| 13:31 |
crazyR |
*reponses |
| 13:37 |
sfan5 |
I'm not sure how patient you are, but I'm here to babysit IRC users to compensate for lack of basic communication skills |
| 13:37 |
sfan5 |
not here* |
| 13:40 |
lumberJ |
i'm not sure what else can be expected. He was only asked to stop at least 2-3 time and have it explained to him, only to keep doing it. All that aside from the fact he was basically dragging out a non-issue feature request for going on 3 hours after being asked to take the issue to github. |
| 13:47 |
ANAND |
andirc8000 just wanted to save some precious storage space in the end |
| 13:48 |
ANAND |
but looks like the IRC logs would've added to their woes |
| 13:48 |
lumberJ |
lol, i was about to say the same. |
| 13:48 |
ANAND |
:P |
| 13:49 |
lumberJ |
probably about the same size as his world folder |
| 13:49 |
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| 13:51 |
ANAND |
hehe |
| 13:52 |
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| 14:11 |
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| 14:17 |
cimbakahn |
Hello! |
| 14:17 |
cimbakahn |
Is there anything I can do about the darkness on a online-server? I am really getting tired of this! Everytime I turn around it's getting dark. I can't get anything done. Night time last too long. Is there any files that I can alter in my client that works on the online-server? |
| 14:18 |
rubenwardy |
gamma |
| 14:18 |
ANAND |
or change the day-night ratio |
| 14:18 |
ANAND |
depending on your needs |
| 14:19 |
cimbakahn |
I don't quite understand how to do it. It would have to work on a online-server. |
| 14:20 |
IhrFussel |
cimbakahn, only gamma works client side I think...maybe some more settings from the advanced menu |
| 14:20 |
cimbakahn |
I am not talking about a singleplayer world, i am talking about on a online-server. |
| 14:21 |
cimbakahn |
So, look in advanced to see if i can find anything? |
| 14:22 |
ANAND |
cimbakahn, for gamma, add the following to minetest.conf (modify if it already exists): |
| 14:22 |
ANAND |
display_gamma = 2.5 |
| 14:23 |
ANAND |
modify the value to your needs |
| 14:24 |
cimbakahn |
Sometimes it is so dark that it is almost black! Why don't they just paint the screen with a black magic marker? Same effect. It is to the point that the game is almost unplayable because of this. |
| 14:25 |
cimbakahn |
I will look. |
| 14:26 |
ANAND |
cimbakahn, looks like the issue is with your display |
| 14:26 |
ANAND |
the display_gamma aims to fix just that |
| 14:26 |
ANAND |
gamma is (and should be) a client-side setting |
| 14:27 |
cimbakahn |
Well, if it is client side, it won't work on the online-server correct? |
| 14:28 |
rubenwardy |
no, the point is that it will |
| 14:28 |
cimbakahn |
Ok. |
| 14:30 |
cimbakahn |
display_gamma isn't on the minetest.conf page, so i guess it's a new line you need to add correct? |
| 14:30 |
IhrFussel |
cimbakahn, client-side pretty much always means "something the server cannot control" |
| 14:30 |
IhrFussel |
You simply add missing lines yes |
| 14:31 |
entuland |
hello everybody |
| 14:31 |
entuland |
not sure I understand this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L925 |
| 14:32 |
entuland |
if I compute "node.param2 / 4" I can of course get a fractional number |
| 14:32 |
entuland |
which wouldn't match with the 0-5 range indicated there |
| 14:33 |
entuland |
same thing for the modulo, I would get only 0-3 range |
| 14:33 |
entuland |
how am I supposed to find out which direction and which orientation my node has? |
| 14:34 |
cimbakahn |
Okay I did it. I am walking back in right now to see if it works. |
| 14:34 |
cimbakahn |
walking is logging I am tired. |
| 14:34 |
sfan5 |
entuland: 24 / 4 equals 6, I don't see the problem |
| 14:35 |
cimbakahn |
I don't see much difference. |
| 14:35 |
entuland |
the problem is that if I have param2 == 1, doing param2 / 4 I would get 0.25 |
| 14:36 |
entuland |
I am dumping out values, and that's what I'm getting |
| 14:36 |
sfan5 |
math.floor |
| 14:36 |
sfan5 |
perhaps the documentation should be more explicit about this |
| 14:37 |
sfan5 |
since lua doesn't have any bitops the / 4 is used as replacement for >> 2 |
| 14:37 |
entuland |
uhm... no I don't think that's what I'm expected to do |
| 14:37 |
cimbakahn |
Did i do it correctly? I just copied and pasted this to the bottom and saved it ----> display_gamma = 2.5 |
| 14:37 |
entuland |
oh no wait a minute |
| 14:38 |
entuland |
I may be misunderstanding the orientation |
| 14:38 |
entuland |
okay now I think I get it |
| 14:40 |
IhrFussel |
cimbakahn, try increasing the value if it's still too dark |
| 14:41 |
entuland |
yep now I get it, thanks sfan5 |
| 14:45 |
cimbakahn |
IhrFussel, You mean to 3.0 ? |
| 14:45 |
IhrFussel |
cimbakahn, just any higher value...see if it even makes a difference |
| 14:46 |
lumberJ |
hey cimbakahn |
| 14:46 |
ANAND |
cimbakahn, fiddle with the values until you get the right result |
| 14:47 |
lumberJ |
make sure your monitor brightness is turned up. This, I have found, is often the easiest fix. :P |
| 14:48 |
entuland |
minetest world coordinates are left-handed with the thumb (+x) going west, index finger (+y) going up, and middle finger (+z) going north, correct? |
| 14:48 |
entuland |
hope I don't get lost cause I was preparing all my code with right-handed system :P |
| 14:48 |
ANAND |
entuland, http://dev.minetest.net/vector |
| 14:48 |
ANAND |
left-handed system actually... :P |
| 14:49 |
entuland |
damn |
| 14:49 |
entuland |
thanks for pointing out the doc, sorry |
| 14:49 |
cimbakahn |
lumberJ, Hello! |
| 14:50 |
entuland |
I had west and east swapped, silly me |
| 14:51 |
lumberJ |
sorry i missed you ping yesterday. i was asleep. |
| 14:53 |
cimbakahn |
lumberJ, That's ok. How are you? |
| 14:53 |
lumberJ |
good, thanks |
| 14:53 |
cimbakahn |
I am trying to find my brightness control on the os. |
| 14:53 |
lumberJ |
is it not on your function keys? |
| 14:53 |
ANAND |
cimbakahn, it's usually within the graphics driver settings |
| 14:54 |
ANAND |
If you still can't find them, you can increase your monitor's brightness |
| 14:54 |
cimbakahn |
It is a laptop. |
| 14:56 |
lumberJ |
laptops usually have brightness countrols on the keys. Mine is f3 to increase brightness, for example |
| 14:56 |
lumberJ |
also you can check your power settings |
| 14:56 |
ANAND |
Then the display settings will be bound to Fn + F1-12 keys |
| 14:57 |
cimbakahn |
Mine is F3 also, but it doesn't work. I'm running BlackLab Linux LXDE. |
| 14:58 |
lumberJ |
did you try fn + f3 as ANAND suggested? |
| 14:58 |
lumberJ |
you keybindings may not be set up properly. afaik you can also access it in the power setting in most distros though |
| 15:02 |
lumberJ |
LXDE is so barebones in some areas. you might have to do something like this: https://linuxcritic.wordpress.com/2015/03/29/change-screen-brightness-in-lxde/ |
| 15:03 |
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| 15:04 |
cimbakahn |
I'm looking at this, but this is from 2015 ----> https://linuxcritic.wordpress.com/2015/03/29/change-screen-brightness-in-lxde/ |
| 15:05 |
lumberJ |
yeah, i doubt the tech in that area has changed much. |
| 15:05 |
lumberJ |
I'll look and see if I see anything more current though |
| 15:09 |
lumberJ |
i alway use xfce on lightweight systems because most laptops are not actually lightweight enough to be worth enduring this sort of pain :P |
| 15:10 |
cimbakahn |
I tried this and it worked ----> xrandr --output LVDS-1 --brightness 1 |
| 15:11 |
lumberJ |
sweet |
| 15:11 |
cimbakahn |
The above was typed into the terminal. I just have to find a way to make it stick permanently. |
| 15:12 |
cimbakahn |
lumberJ, Yes, i tryed the fn. |
| 15:12 |
lumberJ |
read the rest of that article. it explains how to bind the command to the desired keys |
| 15:15 |
cimbakahn |
XFCE was my first linux love. My second is LXDE. I prefer LXDE. And it is not so barebones. You would be surprised what i can do with this thing. |
| 15:16 |
cimbakahn |
Ok. |
| 15:16 |
lumberJ |
sure, you can do anything that you can with any other desktop. just takes a lot more setup up front in my experience |
| 15:16 |
lumberJ |
its great if you have a super light/really old lap top |
| 15:18 |
lumberJ |
personally, i like to customize things on my DE but i don't want to spend a lot of time on things like keybindings for basic functions that everyone would want. |
| 15:21 |
cimbakahn |
This value seems to work the best ----> xrandr --output LVDS-1 --brightness 1.1 |
| 15:23 |
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| 15:29 |
lumberJ |
hmm, that's funny. cimbakahn how did you get into blacklablinux? |
| 15:30 |
cimbakahn |
lumberJ, I was looking for a more pure LXDE experience, that is how. |
| 15:32 |
lumberJ |
seems a bit of an oddball distro. the maintainers include a highway patrolman from NC :P |
| 15:33 |
lumberJ |
do they allow transgender people to choose the which desktop they use? |
| 15:36 |
lumberJ |
i'm sure its fine, i am just thrown by the fact that they claim to be the "only" distro that "truly" focuses on ease of use |
| 15:37 |
lumberJ |
:D |
| 15:43 |
cimbakahn |
lumberJ, ? |
| 15:43 |
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| 15:43 |
cimbakahn |
lumberJ, Where did you find that information |
| 15:43 |
cimbakahn |
? |
| 15:45 |
lumberJ |
their website |
| 15:45 |
lumberJ |
http://www.blacklablinux.org/p/why-black-lab-linux.html |
| 15:48 |
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| 15:48 |
MinetestBot |
paramat: May-14 09:41 UTC <sfan5> https://github.com/Treer/amidstest |
| 15:50 |
cimbakahn |
I don't believe feelings, religion, or a persons sexual orientation has anything to do with what OS you run or even science for that matter. |
| 15:53 |
paramat |
cimbakahn night is meant to be dark, it's expected to be barely able to see what you are doing :) just place some light sources |
| 15:54 |
paramat |
lol andirc, that user annoyed me on IRC too |
| 15:54 |
cimbakahn |
paramat, It is not just night, it is almost black at times. |
| 15:56 |
paramat |
that's what night is like, however, it is full moon, so it's your monitor settings |
| 15:57 |
paramat |
i blame MC for making night like day :) |
| 15:58 |
rubenwardy |
eyes adjust to the dark |
| 15:58 |
rubenwardy |
and it's never fully dark IRL unless you're deep underground |
| 15:59 |
paramat |
i do find server days too short though, the default time speed is too fast for me, again i blame MC and us copying them |
| 16:02 |
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| 16:02 |
paramat |
but then, we do now have a new light curve so night may have got darker. btw you can now adjust the light curve clientside (maybe only in MT0.5) |
| 16:12 |
Astrobe |
" I don't believe feelings, religion, or a persons sexual |
| 16:12 |
Astrobe |
orientation has anything to do with what OS you run". Never heard of TempleOS? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TempleOS |
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cimbakahn |
Human eyes can only adjust so much to darkness. We don't have cats eyes. |
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MinetestBot |
[git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Vertical biome blend: Tune PRNG seed for finer detail (#7329) a01a9ca https://git.io/vpQGt (2018-05-14T18:01:58Z) |
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MinetestBot |
[git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: Fix segfault in player migration and crash in log_deprecated a1598e1 https://git.io/vpQ4S (2018-05-14T19:19:52Z) |
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entuland |
eheheh, I've just tested my first mesh generated from Lua following the wool blocks positions :P |
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| 22:28 |
entuland |
damn... I cannot write to the mod's folder from within my own mod, the security mod blocks me ahahaha |
| 22:28 |
entuland |
I am working that around by dumping the .obj file contents in a formspec... |
| 22:29 |
entuland |
it requires me to copy it, replace it in the actual file and reload the world |
| 22:29 |
entuland |
but it's working: https://imgur.com/a/y2wnAaP |
| 22:30 |
entuland |
and the code takes proper care to avoid creating hidden faces (as long as voxels touch eachother) |
| 22:31 |
entuland |
I like the way the faces get shaded separately in the resulting mesh highlighting the single mini voxels |
| 22:31 |
entuland |
I think I will not try to optimize it by merging the faces |
| 22:31 |
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| 22:32 |
entuland |
not sure if it's the case of trying and optimize the case of hollow shapes either |
| 22:39 |
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| 22:40 |
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| 22:41 |
paramat |
ah nice |
| 22:41 |
Miner_Joe |
So, I tried installing landrush. . . I know-I know. . . It was just so tempting. Now every time I try to start my server, I get this: "Subgame [] could not be found." and "ServerError: Supplied invalid gamespec." |
| 22:42 |
paramat |
do post an image of the resulting node too |
| 22:42 |
entuland |
it's there beneath |
| 22:42 |
entuland |
there are two images in there |
| 22:42 |
entuland |
the resulting node stands on the "canvas control" so to say (the gray block) |
| 22:44 |
entuland |
I'm making another build to be captured that way, I'll post the single node version agains some other block for comparation |
| 22:44 |
paramat |
oh hm |
| 22:44 |
paramat |
thought that was just the initial preview |
| 22:44 |
entuland |
you can actually sort of see the resulting node in the first image, bottom left, standing on the gray block :P |
| 22:45 |
entuland |
right above the stack of 99 yellow wool blocks |
| 22:47 |
paramat |
i guess i was hoping for the resulting meshnode to combine neighbouring minivoxels, no separate shading (even though that looks nice in a way) |
| 22:47 |
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| 22:47 |
entuland |
I should try that (I also guess that I am missing some param in the obj file to smooth the faces) |
| 22:49 |
paramat |
personally i would prefer combined faces, but avoiding internal faces is the important part :) |
| 22:50 |
entuland |
I'm not sure how I should treat non-rectangular cases |
| 22:50 |
entuland |
I guess I would need to split the surface in rectangles to ensure valid faces |
| 22:51 |
entuland |
as I can't have vertices going inside, so to say |
| 22:51 |
paramat |
anyway good and useful mod |
| 22:51 |
entuland |
thanks |
| 22:51 |
entuland |
I'll have to clean up a bit of stuff before releasing :P |
| 22:55 |
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| 23:01 |
Miner_Joe |
Is there any way I can start a Minetest server verbose? So I can see where it hangs and what value it's talking about as subgame? |
| 23:04 |
entuland |
sorry Miner_Joe, I'm pretty new myself and I'm not sure how to change the verbosity |
| 23:05 |
entuland |
I know you can open it with the console though (I think it works only on windows: "minetest.exe --console") |
| 23:05 |
Miner_Joe |
One last Q before I go silent: Is there a way to set the system-wide share? |
| 23:06 |
entuland |
sorry, no idea |
| 23:06 |
entuland |
paramat, another build with larger screenshots and two closeups: https://imgur.com/a/em6UbU3 |
| 23:08 |
entuland |
can I get voiced in the hub just in case I decide to drop in sometime in the future? |
| 23:12 |
Shara |
entuland: sure |
| 23:12 |
entuland |
thank you Shara :) |
| 23:13 |
Shara |
Done, and no problem |
| 23:14 |
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