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IRC log for #minetest, 2018-03-05

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15:14 MinetestBot [git] pauloue -> minetest/minetest: Fix bad markdown in lua_api.txt 6cfd699 https://git.io/vAQ7H (2018-03-05T15:14:19Z)
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16:37 BakerPrime I have 2 stupid questions, related to modding, first, what is the tag for allowing a node to be broken? I'm fixing a mod right now, and some of the nodes are unbreakable, even with an Admin-Pickaxe. Second, how do I get UI to pick up on a new craft recipe? It works, like, if you ignore it and place stuff in the grid anyway, it will craft the item, but UI shows it as uncraftable. As you can see I'm somewhat new to modding, so I'm
16:37 BakerPrime sorry about asking these stupid questions.
16:37 sfan5 1) nodes need one group that dictates the digging speed, e.g. "cracky", "oddly_breakable_by_hand" and others
16:38 sfan5 2) ui? which ui? there is not builtin ui for displaying crafting recipes
16:53 rubenwardy unified inventory, probably
16:53 sfan5 ...
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17:00 BillyS That would, however, be an interesting functionality to add in . . a crafting guide that read all the registered crafts and parsed them.
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17:00 BillyS Unless I'm being stupid and that is already what unified inventory does
17:02 BillyS I don't know of how that would currently be possible without something like minetest.get_registered_nodes
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17:12 Krock * minetest.registered_items  gives you the entire list
17:13 Krock including nodes, tools and items
17:13 Krock ^ BillyS
17:15 BillyS Ah, thanks
17:23 Traveler_ Hey everyone, new to Minetest.  Programmer by trade.  Former MC server runner for years, for my son and his friends.  Looking to transition to Minetest, do some (considerably easier) modding.  Have a question though, that I haven't found the answer for yet, is there the ability yet for multiple server "sub-worlds/dimensions/linked servers/etc"?
17:24 Fixer don't think so
17:25 Traveler_ I don't think so either, but I couldn't really find a definitive answer.
17:25 Fixer "multiple worlds" can be workarounded by splitting world by height and generating new biomes in each
17:25 Fixer it supports only one database
17:25 Fixer file*
17:25 Traveler_ I saw that as an option.
17:26 Fixer some people asked for linked server, but that is not possible currently
17:26 Traveler_ Was really looking for the ability to have totally different rules on each.
17:26 Traveler_ Used to do that on MC.
17:26 Traveler_ It isn't enough to get me to switch back, but it would be nice.  :-)
17:27 Fixer different rules on each? probably possible
17:27 Fixer world is 65000x65000x65000
17:27 Fixer so you can divide it by height and have plenty of biomes
17:27 Fixer there is also "floatlands biome" available in mapgen 7 iirc
17:28 Traveler_ Yeah.  Had different PvP, gravity, griefing, build ability, on each.
17:28 Fixer probably possible
17:28 Calinou you could have a script to host different servers and manage them all at once, but there is no way for clients to type a command to join other servers without leaving the one they're currently on
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17:29 Calinou chat could be made to work across servers by setting up an IRC relay (which also allows people from IRC to join in)
17:29 Shara Players physics can be settable based on height or similar, as in theory could other things.
17:29 Traveler_ Yeah, that is sorta what I was hoping for.  Used to spawn a new world from a template, on the fly, as an "instance" of that world, let the kids play around in it, and when they all leave, it goes away.
17:31 sofar It wouldn't be too hard to make that work
17:31 Traveler_ Oh?  I am interested.  :-)
17:31 Traveler_ I am not above a bit of programming myself (I do python by trade, but I can do lua too)
17:32 sofar the auto start/stop thing, not the go-from-realm-to-realm thing
17:32 Traveler_ sofar: I figured that is what you meant.
17:32 sofar just making sure :)
17:32 sofar I'd love both to work, of course
17:33 sofar having server-to-server "travel" would be great, imho
17:33 Traveler_ Is there a roadmap/plan to get a "real" multi world/server/dimmension feature working?
17:33 sofar that would make truly large networks of servers and players possible
17:33 sofar no, it's getting killed with negativity and naive implementations
17:33 sofar (I'm not bitter)
17:34 sofar of course, ultimately if someone writes some semi-decent code that makes it work then it will probably get merged in the end
17:35 Traveler_ That would be great.
17:35 Krock Multi-dimensions: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=5&t=19741
17:37 sofar layers are absolutely not dimensions
17:37 Fixer it is kinda workaround as usual
17:38 sofar there are 3 ways to implement this, as I see
17:38 sofar 1) layercake
17:39 sofar that's entirely in lua, mostly, makes mapgen complex, but shifts a lot of burden to mods
17:39 sofar 2) some fourth coordinate
17:39 sofar shifts overhead to the c++ object model. Makes lots of things incompatible, needs a ton of code
17:40 sofar 3) server-to-server redirection
17:40 sofar neither needs lua or heavy c++ code, just a protocol extension and minor code
17:40 sofar somehow people think 1) is the most sensible thing to work on
17:40 sofar mind blown
17:42 Traveler_ 2 or 3 makes more sense to me, but I won't be the person who makes those happen.
17:42 sofar for the record, 1) is pretty much entirely possible already
17:43 Traveler_ Seems like it.
17:43 BillyS Yay, a fellow Python Programmer! :P
17:43 sofar the fact that nobody as far as I can see it is using it to me suggests it's not a useful solution
17:43 Traveler_ :-D
17:44 BillyS Question: Is it possible to overlay the minetest sky with an image, but to make the image a certain percentage transparent?
17:45 BillyS That would be very useful for traveling high up; I could make the skybox slowly transition to stars
17:46 Traveler_ That would be neat.
17:46 BillyS Yeah
17:46 sofar I don't think so, but you can certainly try it
17:46 Shara Would love that, but not sure there's any good way to do it right now
17:47 BillyS I like building space stations and what not, so that would be useful
17:47 sofar take the `skybox` mod, and add texture modifiers?
17:47 Traveler_ A little bit of KSP in Minetest?
17:47 BillyS Yeah, I'm thinking something along those lines
17:47 Fixer haha
17:47 Fixer with asteroid mining
17:47 sofar https://github.com/minetest-mods​/skybox/blob/master/init.lua#L45
17:47 Shara I'd like to have nicer sky transistions for other_worlds
17:47 BillyS Hmm, interesting idea, Fixer
17:47 sofar you want to insert texture modifiers there
17:48 Fixer that was proposed by rubenwardy i think
17:48 BillyS I could add unobtanium. :P
17:48 BillyS Ofc, that is already covered by xtraores
17:48 sofar oh, we don't support making textures semi-transparent
17:49 BillyS Rats
17:49 Shara Pretty sure I couldn't get anything like that working with the skyboxes when I tried before
17:49 Fixer ha? you can, but it is half-broken because no z-sorting
17:49 Fixer or i'm wrong
17:49 BillyS Hmm, maybe I could colorize it somehow . . .
17:50 sofar oh, yeah, maybe [colorize works
17:50 Shara I wanted a gradual switch from the default skybox into the space ones I use in https://github.com/Ezhh/other_worlds
17:50 Shara [colorize works for skyboxes
17:50 sofar it does?
17:50 Shara https://github.com/Ezhh/other_wo​rlds/blob/master/skybox.lua#L21
17:51 Shara I use it here
17:51 sofar did you try [colorize:alpha:127 ?
17:51 sofar something like that?
17:51 Shara I worked ont he mod almost two years ago. I know I tried things, but don't recall exactly what I tried
17:52 Shara I 'think' I did, but it's not gruaranteed
17:52 Shara guaranteed*
17:53 Shara Better skyboxes in general... really want this. (But of course there's the issue of losing the sun and moon...)
17:55 BillyS Are the sun and moon part of the skybox?
17:56 Shara No, you can change them seperately... but they only display when using the default skybox
17:56 BillyS Ah
17:56 BillyS Hmm
17:56 Shara Not really sure what the issue there is. I got a headache when I tried to work through the code.
17:56 Shara Maybe sofar has an idea
17:56 BillyS Well, the moon is /rather/ visible in space, so that might be an issue . .
17:57 BillyS Maybe I would have to add it into the skybox texture, but then it wouldn't move
17:57 sofar the whole sky system is very rigid
17:57 sofar it can only do a few things
17:57 BillyS So I see.
17:58 BillyS And the devs already have a lot on their plates.
17:58 Shara The moment you add a custom skybox, you just get that skybox and nothing dynamic
17:58 BillyS afaik
17:58 BillyS There should be a minetest.sun_and_moon(true/false)
17:59 Shara "should" :)
17:59 BillyS heh
17:59 BillyS I have pushed minetest modding pretty close to its limit with my "Mass Mayhem Mod"
17:59 BillyS Minetest glitches out when you set the pyhsics override of a fast-moving player to zero, it seems
18:00 BillyS Or can, at any rate
18:00 Shara Which specific overrides?
18:00 BillyS speed = 0
18:00 Shara I've never had issues with that
18:01 BillyS Yeah, I added a /freeze command to troll players with, and it glitched.
18:01 Shara That's because it won't stop current motion
18:01 BillyS Yeah
18:01 BillyS Makes sense
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18:02 BillyS I also added a liquid nitrogen source, which had the same effect
18:02 BillyS but it caused the players to jitter back and forth; maybe anticheat had something to do with it.
18:02 Shara I know anticheat had an issue when you zeroed physics until quite recently
18:03 BillyS Then that was probably it
18:03 Shara But it shouldn't have caused that jitter unless you were somehow doing something to make it think you were cheating :)
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18:05 BillyS Well, if I was still moving forward while my speed was set to zero, i would think that that would trigger it
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18:06 Traveler_ Ok, time to switch to a real account (Boingo)
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18:30 Out`Of`Control Fixer: hi are you around?
18:30 Fixer yes
18:32 Out`Of`Control Fixer: any idea what could cause it. Plantet wheat seeds, turn into cotton plant
18:32 Fixer check abms you have
18:32 Out`Of`Control ok ty
18:39 LaCosa Hello, the second link on this page: http://dev.minetest.net/Min​etest_Schematic_File_Format is broken because the file was moved to a subdirectory, can someone fix it?
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19:14 BakerPrime Sfan5: Sorry, I was AFK, Yes, UI like "the" Unified Inventory.
19:20 Out`Of`Control Is it possibel to disable CSM on server side
19:21 Krock 0.5.0: yes. 0.4.x: no.
19:21 sofar (*)
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19:21 Out`Of`Control so why its enabled in 0.4 ?
19:21 Krock (*v*)/
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19:22 sofar a user can enable it in 0.5.0 by patching their client
19:22 Out`Of`Control so i have to update to 0.5
19:22 Krock CSM was added and what's added can't be restricted easily
19:22 Krock so if you have security issues, patch them.
19:22 sofar even with 0.5 it's likely users will be running with CSMs
19:23 sofar it just makes it a little bit harder for them
19:23 sofar better to properly defend against abuse
19:23 Out`Of`Control i wonder if i can detect abuse.
19:24 Krock that's like when you'd want to detect cheating where the cheater-client doesn't send movement actions
19:25 sofar it depends on what kind of abuse, but in most cases, yes, you can probably detect it
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19:28 Out`Of`Control sofar: i need special mod, or just keep an eye on logs?
19:28 Krock 1) add minetest.dig_node() to CSM 2) check how long the tool takes to dig surrounding ore node #214 and 3) dig all ores and wait enough long --> profit
19:28 Krock as in: real profit due ore mining
19:30 Heckstatic https://a.uguu.se/QJHFMCdH2LOW_notmuch.jpg ha ha ha ha HAHAHA oh my it actually worked
19:30 Heckstatic so you might be thinking, what exactly is so special about dumping the player's position to chat
19:30 Krock highest OpenGL version I've seen yet
19:31 Krock all I can see are float -> double conversion errors
19:31 Krock the positions were rounded to the 3rd digit after comma (thousands)
19:32 Heckstatic blame ObjectRef:get_pos, not me
19:32 Heckstatic now look at this https://pastebin.com/bzuHQHFZ
19:32 Heckstatic and try telling me it isn't awesome
19:32 Krock yes, I wasn't implying that it's your fault.
19:33 Krock looks like you're building a framework API around the minetest framework API
19:33 Heckstatic aye
19:34 Heckstatic out of necessity, but it is an api of sort
19:34 * Krock claps hands for using the W2k theme on Win 7 :D
19:35 Heckstatic isn't that just windows NT
19:35 Heckstatic it's not that I don't like aero, but dwm.exe is a whole bag of problems so I kill it
19:36 Heckstatic anyway, so far I've got some OOP base stuff
19:37 Heckstatic an entity-component system
19:37 Heckstatic a vector math lib that doesn't suck
19:37 Heckstatic and up next is a more sophisticated animation system, which will be trivial now that components are working
19:39 Heckstatic and when that is up, we can think about giving minetest a combat system that doesn't suck
19:40 Heckstatic seriously though who thought that defining vectors like { x = 0, y = 0, z = 0 } was a good idea
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19:43 Heckstatic but lua saves us here again https://pastebin.com/FPM7XFwX
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19:58 Fixer Krock: clap to me too, classic theme fan
19:58 * Krock claps
19:58 Fixer proper theme from the times when it was still a business OS, not a dumbed down flashy one
19:59 Fixer it all started with that crap xp theme
19:59 BillyS Did anyone ever noticp that "XP" is a dead face?
20:00 BillyS *notice
20:00 Fixer or smiling face with closed eyes and open mouth?
20:00 Fixer depends on your mood
20:02 Krock x.x  is dead
20:02 Out`Of`Control what is dead?
20:05 Heckstatic we're all dead and this is hell
20:05 Out`Of`Control its too cold for hell
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20:05 Heckstatic isn't the final circle of hell cold?
20:08 BillyS I didn't think so
20:08 BillyS At any rate, if this is hell, I took a wrong turn somewhere. :p
20:08 Heckstatic it's an abstract kind of hell
20:09 Heckstatic full of object oriented insanity with multiple layers of indirection
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20:10 Heckstatic crap, I need to somehow __index two tables at once
20:11 Heckstatic oh, there, i did it
20:12 * BillyS claps
20:12 Heckstatic let's test it
20:13 Heckstatic it compiles, good
20:13 Heckstatic it doesn't call its own methods anymore, not good
20:13 BillyS Now, does it do what it is supposed to do? :P
20:13 BillyS Nope
20:16 Heckstatic the goal is for a component to access an entity's fields as if they were its own, to avoid passing the objectRef and some ugly getter method like GetComponent
20:16 Heckstatic I'll figure it out later
20:23 paramat hi Boingo do you have any C++ ability? we're lacking dev time and would love to see new people work toward being a dev in future =)
20:24 paramat there's no official plan for dimensions but it's popular, it's just a case of someone coding it well. i agree that server to server redirection seems the best approach
20:26 paramat stacking stuff in one world isn't a substitute of course, just a different and limited approach possible now
20:27 paramat maybe related is VAEs which is in our TODO https://dev.minetest.net/TODO#Voxel_Area_Entities maybe that could enable pocket dimensions
20:55 Boingo paramat: My C++ fu is from a long time ago.  I am sure I could pick it up again, but it has been a while.  Lua is pretty close to my daily python, so pretty easy.
20:55 Boingo paramat: How do you see the VAEs helping in this problem?
20:56 paramat no idea to be honest =)
20:56 paramat but there was some talk of them being related
20:56 Boingo hmmmm....
20:57 paramat i guess server to server redirection would not be a compatible implementation
20:57 Boingo Sounds like 2 different solutions, to 2 unrelated problems.
20:59 Boingo Not even sure if the server-to-server works for what I was doing with MC in the past.  Previously, it would spin up a new instance of a world (usually very small) which had a mini-game, let the kids play it, then delete the whole thing when they were done.
20:59 Boingo Not sure that "server-to-server" really helps with that.
21:00 Boingo Not saying I wouldn't use it, I totally would, but yeah.... sounds more like bungie.
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21:15 paramat in case you haven't read it, the dimensions issue is https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4428
21:16 Boingo Yeah, I saw it.
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23:12 MinetestBot [git] Ezhh -> minetest/minetest_game: Fireflies: Reduce density in non-mgv6 mapgens d4a007c https://git.io/vA7QC (2018-03-05T23:08:29Z)
23:12 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Creative: Fix width of arrow textures 1afb8f2 https://git.io/vA7QW (2018-03-05T23:06:15Z)
23:12 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Ores: Remove region overlaps. Make some regions deeper 3afcd68 https://git.io/vA7Ql (2018-03-05T23:05:59Z)
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