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IRC log for #minetest, 2017-11-07

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All times shown according to UTC.

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13:22 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit: Correct spelling of Minetest 12270dc https://git.io/vFBLa (2017-11-07T13:20:50Z)
13:22 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit: Fix a few assignments to undeclared globals 415000e https://git.io/vFBLV (2017-11-07T13:19:57Z)
13:27 Fixer "Contained in serialization.lua, this module allows regions of nodes to be serialized and deserialized to formats suitable for use outside MineTest."
13:27 Fixer busted
13:29 sfan5 what
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15:54 Fixer MineTest, another reminder to stop Testing and start renaming to smth better
15:54 jas_ no
15:56 sy no
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18:31 Wuzzy hey
18:32 Wuzzy how an I know if an int in a StorageRef has never been touched before?
18:32 Wuzzy e.g.
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18:32 Wuzzy local sr = minetest.get_mod_storage(); local x = sr:get_int("new_key");
18:33 Wuzzy if x has never been touched (written) before, it sadly defaults to 0, NOT nil :-(
18:33 rubenwardy to check that it's not been set:   get_string("key") == ""
18:33 rubenwardy combine with    local val = get_string("key")
18:33 Krock Wuzzy, sorry but there are no int's stored. They're converted to strings
18:33 Wuzzy :-(
18:33 rubenwardy if val == "" then  -- blag
18:33 Wuzzy but "" is a value, too
18:33 rubenwardy then if set before,     tonumber(val)
18:34 Krock "" causes the deletion of that value
18:34 Wuzzy why isn't there nil?
18:34 Krock * key/value pair
18:34 rubenwardy heh
18:34 rubenwardy would have been better like that
18:34 rubenwardy but that's how metadata was designed originally, unfortunately
18:34 Wuzzy because "" is a valid value. empty string is not the same as NULL / nil
18:34 Wuzzy meh
18:35 Wuzzy alright. i will use the "" check then
18:36 rubenwardy hard to fix this without backwards compatibility issues
18:37 sfan5 do we guarantee map compatibility for 0.5?
18:37 rubenwardy yes
18:37 rubenwardy at least a converter
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18:40 willvarfar hi; my kids use 4.16 on xubuntu; the mods tab is blank now and they can't find things like animals; where are things?
18:40 sfan5 having a converter would not be what i define as "map compatibility"
18:41 sfan5 willvarfar: your mods should be located at ~/.minetest/mods
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18:45 willvarfar aha they were under /usr/share/mintest
18:45 willvarfar that's fixed it :)
18:45 willvarfar shame there isn't an installer built into the UI ;)
18:46 asl97 I fixed oom from noise, vmip data and param2 without needing a 'buffer'.  The cost is quadruple mapgen logic time.  so I probably wouldn't be making an pr.  The patch and timing are available for those interested https://github.com/asl97/minetest/pull/2
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18:54 willvarfar hmm I spoke too soon; they are listed in the UI now, but trying to enable anything e.g. animal_cow will just say "Unresolved name conflicts for mods "animal_cow"."  Also trying to enable some of the stuff like adv_spawning-master complains that it contains illegal characters
18:55 rubenwardy that means it's in multiple places
18:55 rubenwardy I suggest removing any mods in /usr/*
18:55 rubenwardy and only installing them to    ~/.minetest/mods
18:55 rubenwardy make sure you don't have multiple copies of the same modpack, as well
18:56 Krock asl97, don't be afraid of the notifications for watchers. these can be marked as read quite fast
18:58 rubenwardy worth showing to paramat anyway, asl97
18:58 rubenwardy possible he could have some suggestions
18:58 rubenwardy oh, it actually increases time overal
18:58 Krock on the one side you reduced the RAM usage but instead, there seem to be more API calls, making the whole process slower
18:58 rubenwardy maybe do some better caching, and optimise riverdev to not thrash?
18:59 asl97 Krock: I ain't really happy about the additional seconds it added to actually notify everyone about it
19:00 asl97 rubenwardy: that's an old copy of riverdev which paramat pointed me to,  the whole point is not to copy everything onto lua memory space
19:00 rubenwardy yeah
19:00 rubenwardy not an area I'm familiar with
19:01 Krock rubenwardy, caching happens in C++. Either you have that all again in Lua, which causes the high RAM usage or call them from C++ by functions, which causes delays
19:01 rubenwardy I mean caching in Lua
19:01 rubenwardy say the noise is 1000x1000
19:01 rubenwardy and you access 100,100
19:01 Krock that's what currently happens
19:01 rubenwardy it also fetches say 10x10 around it
19:01 rubenwardy oh right
19:01 rubenwardy asl97 said everything is copied though?
19:02 Krock well, it fetches everything, assuming that it all will be used
19:02 rubenwardy right
19:02 asl97 for small simple lua mapgen, write to map takes the most time,  the answer to that is a unified hook thingy on top of the on generated hook
19:04 asl97 basically everybody share the same data and param2 table that get passed around
19:05 Krock write to map, light and liquid update take between 40 and 100ms of a total time of ~230ms
19:06 Krock same or a little less than the terrain generation
19:07 asl97 that would probably be better than the current every get their own copy of data, run their own light liquid update and run their own write to map.
19:14 willvarfar cool, moving everything from /usr made the mods seem to be enabled without error messages
19:14 willvarfar but not seeing any animals or anything; is there a way to place them in creative mode?
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21:16 Inocudom Calinou, your AppImage for the development version crashes with the following error: https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=299259#p299259
21:17 Inocudom I do have gcc 4.8 and clang 3.9 installed, yet this still happens.
21:18 Inocudom It is also worth noting that the compiling minetest instructions on the source code page uses cmake. There is no mention of clang nor gcc.
21:19 Inocudom They should be mentioned since they are needed. They both have c++11 in them.
21:20 Inocudom Sfan5 might be able to help since he compiles builds for Windows.
21:21 deltasquared Inocudom: does it not mention "You need a C++11 compiler" somewhere, I forget (genuine question)
21:21 Inocudom And when I said that I can compile GZDoom on my computer, I am referring to the alpha, cutting-edge, development version on GitHub.
21:22 deltasquared granted some inviduals may not know "C++11 compiler on linux = gcc or clang", but then again anyone trying to compile a dev version should know this kinda stuff
21:23 rubenwardy it's more the version than the compiler
21:23 Inocudom C++ is only mentioned for Fedora.
21:23 rubenwardy most compilers support C++11 if you use a new enough version
21:23 deltasquared pretty sure 99% C++11 support is standard these days (msvc can be a bit picky)
21:24 deltasquared no idea if debian has caught up yet
21:24 * deltasquared ducks
21:24 rubenwardy s/picky/nonstandard/g
21:25 deltasquared rubenwardy: that a bit too
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21:25 Calinou Inocudom: it hasn't been updated in months
21:25 Calinou sorry, I'm just out of time right now
21:26 Calinou also, the point of an AppImage is that you don't need to install any dependency to run it
21:26 Calinou deltasquared: Debian 8 and later have caught up, yes
21:26 rubenwardy Have you heard about Snap packages?
21:26 Calinou MSVC 2015 Update 3 (and 2017) fully support C++14, too
21:27 Calinou rubenwardy: yes, read this if you are still convinced by them: https://github.com/AppImage/App​ImageKit/wiki/Similar-projects
21:27 Calinou :-)
21:27 rubenwardy the Ubuntu guy at #live (who's also sitting in this channel) recommended them
21:27 rubenwardy lol
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21:28 deltasquared I'm going to withold my opinions on app images in this instance
21:29 deltasquared slightly daft question, is minetest.get_us_time() guaranteed to be monotonic if it doesn't return wall time?
21:29 deltasquared as in, it'll never jump backwards or do something stupid
21:32 Billre somehow, I believe that's a daylight savings time question.  :D
21:34 Inocudom Keep in mind that Linux Mint 17 is supported till 2019, and I hope to have a new computer by then, one with at least twice as much power as the one that I currently have.
21:35 Inocudom And I informed Eiion_ceo on YouTube that Minetest 0.5 dev is currently being worked on. If he still wants to work on Minetest, now would be a good time for him to do so.
21:37 Inocudom He does multi-threading and shaders, so he might be able to be RealBadAngel's successor. And RealBadAngel could use a memorial of some kind within Minetest game.
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21:43 deltasquared Billre: no actually, just wanting to ensure that it's always monotonic as I will be using it for deltas
21:44 deltasquared I would assume so given the use cases for having a microsecond-accurate timer
21:44 deltasquared (such as profiling)
21:45 asl97 deltasquared: http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.get_gametime
21:45 asl97 that wouldn't return crazy time, or at least it shouldn't
21:46 rubenwardy get_gametime may reset if env_meta is corrupted
21:46 rubenwardy which does happen
21:48 asl97 if it corrupt, the world time becomes wrong which would be bad for mods which depend on it for events, sooo, someone should push to moving it into a database
21:52 Inocudom You have some builders who are skilled enough, like fishyWET, solars, and PEAK.
21:53 asl97 Inocudom: the github repo has cpp11 tagged, the cmake file has a line which mention c++11, cmake is a makefile generator, it's standard stuff, just google something like 'cmake clang' if you want to find out how to build with clang.
21:53 asl97 Also, it does not matter what other game you can compile on an outdated system, it's like saying minetest should just stick to old ways of coding and not use the new (faster) feature.
21:53 asl97 not to mention, some old program don't compile on new system and i don't think anyone want minetest to reach that state, stuck with an obsolete compiler and system.
21:53 asl97 like seriously, mono 3 don't even compile anymore and some games are stuck depending on it for net3.5.
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22:03 swift110 sup folks
22:03 red-001 hi swift110
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22:10 swift110 how are you red
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23:01 Inocudom Bye.
23:11 rdococ the swift red birds
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23:57 GreenDimond Supposedly there is a way to return multiple items when crafted? Like if you have a water bucket in a recipe it leaves an empty bucket behind in the grid?
23:57 GreenDimond I dont see it documented in the API, so how do I do this?
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23:59 asl97 GreenDimond: https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L4696

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