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| 14:33 |
Billre |
Does minetest have relative coordinates? |
| 14:33 |
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| 14:33 |
Brackston |
You mean to find players that are related to you? lol |
| 14:34 |
Billre |
For example, if I code a command block for @10 10 10, it picks a node 10 blocks in all directions from itself |
| 14:34 |
Billre |
lol Bro |
| 14:34 |
deltasquared |
Billre: command blocks run the command as their placer |
| 14:34 |
deltasquared |
and no, I don't think it features interpretation of relative co-ords |
| 14:35 |
deltasquared |
a lua block of sorts (with restricted functionality, similar to mesecons luacontrollers) would be better for that sort of thing IMO |
| 14:36 |
Billre |
I didn't know there was a lua block |
| 14:36 |
Billre |
How do carts move? |
| 14:37 |
deltasquared |
Billre: the lua block was a hypothetical. |
| 14:37 |
deltasquared |
as to how carts move.. have you looked at the code? I haven't :P |
| 14:37 |
deltasquared |
also I detect an !xyproblem but I'll wait |
| 14:37 |
Billre |
look at code rather than ask an unprepared question? That wouldn't be very newbie of me. :D |
| 14:38 |
deltasquared |
lel fair enough, have a cookie |
| 14:38 |
Billre |
lol |
| 14:39 |
deltasquared |
in all fairness though I *think* I saw something about adding velocity in the cart's on_punch method |
| 14:39 |
Billre |
that would make sense as the more I punch it, the faster it goes |
| 14:41 |
deltasquared |
Billre: from the looks of minetest/games/minetest/mods/carts/cart_entity.lua it simply sets it's own velocity and the engine does the rest |
| 14:42 |
deltasquared |
might I ask *why* you're interested first in relative co-ords and then how carts move |
| 14:54 |
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| 14:55 |
Billre |
I want to move small builds in game |
| 14:55 |
deltasquared |
Billre: so you want to move block structures around? hmm |
| 14:56 |
Billre |
I can do that with lua controllers and command blocks but it's rather limited |
| 14:56 |
Billre |
Essentially, I'd like to make a flying machine |
| 14:56 |
deltasquared |
Billre: the actual code for moving a large structure around would best be done in a proper mod, say using voxelmanip |
| 14:57 |
deltasquared |
aha, I thought it was something to do with flying machines |
| 14:57 |
Billre |
That would take some learning ... hmmm |
| 14:57 |
deltasquared |
many of us would like proper "voxel area entities" but it's non-trivial to do at the engine level |
| 14:57 |
deltasquared |
essentially, an entity which represents a world chunk which isn't aligned with the rest of the world |
| 14:57 |
* deltasquared |
looks up issue |
| 14:59 |
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deltasquared |
... nope, can't find it |
| 15:02 |
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| 15:05 |
twoelk |
Billre, have you considered mods like Meshnodes, Airship, Flyingships or Digtron? Links may be found at the bottom of this wiki page: https://wiki.minetest.net/Mods:Vehicles |
| 15:07 |
ThomasMonroe |
I don't think airship works properly |
| 15:07 |
ThomasMonroe |
but I'm not sure though |
| 15:08 |
twoelk |
the information loss on reload problem? |
| 15:10 |
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| 15:12 |
Billre |
thanks twoelk. I'm looking at meshnode now. I have used digtron before - it doesn't h ave the issue of information loss. |
| 15:13 |
deltasquared |
meshnodes looks cool, that basically looks like the airships mod I've used in minecraft before |
| 15:14 |
Billre |
I sometimes fell out of the airship in MC if I was going to fast. |
| 15:15 |
ThomasMonroe |
XD |
| 15:15 |
Billre |
I took to flying over water so I wouldn't die and to carry a lot of soil so I could get back up to the airship |
| 15:15 |
deltasquared |
Billre: it's like minecarts but worse when it flies off without you |
| 15:15 |
deltasquared |
GET BACK HEEEEEEEEEEEEEERE |
| 15:17 |
Billre |
lol |
| 15:17 |
blaise |
nice |
| 15:21 |
deltasquared |
it looks like it would be the kind of thing that'd benefit from APIs to make certain kinds of blocks behave sanely, say while underwater. |
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| 15:59 |
orbea |
an airship mod, I could use one of those :) |
| 16:00 |
orbea |
the one mod I'm really missing from minecraft is the obsidion based gate mod for travelling |
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twoelk-in-office |
hmm, a wiki page that lists mods that create underground structures, biomes or other fun might be usefull |
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| 16:50 |
orbea |
lmao! |
| 16:50 |
orbea |
oops, wrong channel... |
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| 17:26 |
salahzar |
does anyone know how I can install/use this "mod" https://github.com/arpruss/moon-mapgen-minetest being a mapgen I would expect to be able to put somewhere under a mapgen folder, but didn't find any information on the minetest site or in the readme of this. |
| 17:28 |
sfan5 |
there's no dedicated folder for mapgen mods |
| 17:28 |
sfan5 |
just put it into the usual folder |
| 17:31 |
Brackston |
sfan5 when you say usual folder are you referring to game root or mod folder? |
| 17:31 |
sfan5 |
mods/ |
| 17:31 |
Brackston |
tthanks |
| 17:35 |
salahzar |
ok but how it will operate, since it is a mapgen mod how can I create a world with it since mods (as far as I know) are defined at world level? |
| 17:35 |
salahzar |
I tried to create a standard world with minetest subgame and then associate this mod |
| 17:36 |
salahzar |
As I am trying to teach teachers how to use minetest for using it in classroom, mods like that one are quite interesting since creator did recreate moon surface :) |
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| 18:12 |
ZenonSeth |
oh salahzar left |
| 18:12 |
sfan5 |
guess they don't want answers then |
| 18:13 |
ZenonSeth |
or hopefully, they figured it out |
| 18:13 |
ZenonSeth |
btw sfan5, that was your mapgen mod i was referring to, good example as i don't think there are many out there |
| 18:16 |
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| 18:20 |
ZenonSeth |
I'm sure i'm not the only one to have brought this up |
| 18:20 |
ZenonSeth |
has anyone considered a central identification system for minetest? |
| 18:20 |
ZenonSeth |
maybe just a public-key/username repo? |
| 18:21 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: you mean some way to point to a choosable auth server. people get upset if you suggest a "one true authentication server" |
| 18:21 |
deltasquared |
but otherwise yes, though it'd need some way to connect to network services from mods, which itself is a security nightmare |
| 18:21 |
ZenonSeth |
no |
| 18:21 |
ZenonSeth |
i dont meant auth server per-se |
| 18:22 |
deltasquared |
... well? |
| 18:22 |
ZenonSeth |
but a central database of public keys (aka from asymetric crypto algorithm) - which servers are free to reference to if they want |
| 18:22 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: so, PGP for minetest? :P |
| 18:23 |
deltasquared |
if not the whole web of trust thing perhaps |
| 18:23 |
ZenonSeth |
kinda i guess |
| 18:23 |
ZenonSeth |
sorry what do you mean "not the whole web" ? |
| 18:23 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: "web of trust" is a GPG thing, I wouldn't worry about it |
| 18:24 |
ZenonSeth |
you mean like the ssl certificate system where there must be a root trusted cert? |
| 18:24 |
deltasquared |
so in a sense it's kinda taking the authentication data out of the local server and referencing it from somewhere else, with the extra addition that the remote repository only stores pubkeys and the client holds private keys (so you don't go storing passwords open on the internet) |
| 18:25 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: ... I said forget about it, it really doesn't matter. the whole GPG system is a bit overblown for this use case |
| 18:25 |
ZenonSeth |
yes, thats how identification works in the world |
| 18:25 |
deltasquared |
"in the world" [citation needed] but eh *shrug* |
| 18:25 |
ZenonSeth |
uh |
| 18:25 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: the remote-ness of the pubkey repository is certainly not typical |
| 18:25 |
ZenonSeth |
ok, it works that way in a lot of systems, ssh, gitlab, most things that require digital signing |
| 18:26 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: true, but it's usually stored locally on the server in question |
| 18:26 |
deltasquared |
you make it sound like you could configure a server to use *another* repository of public keys |
| 18:26 |
deltasquared |
at least that's what I got from "central" |
| 18:26 |
ZenonSeth |
ok, but my point is if minetest devs agreed that they can have an optional system that servers could use that *could* reference to the ":official" public-key repo |
| 18:27 |
ZenonSeth |
you could make it harder for others to pretend to be you, at least on servers that choose to use that optinal system |
| 18:27 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: meh, I'd just have it generic and have an "official" repository address. also you might have a hard time convincing them to run such a service, it's gotta be up almost all the time |
| 18:27 |
deltasquared |
"them" being the MT devs |
| 18:28 |
ZenonSeth |
yes and if oyou let me have food first ,i can describe to you the method of a server using another public repo |
| 18:28 |
ZenonSeth |
the method i have in mind anyawy |
| 18:28 |
deltasquared |
seems simple enough to me, give it a HTTP address and it downloads pubkeys that way |
| 18:28 |
ZenonSeth |
well or git repo, but yes |
| 18:29 |
ZenonSeth |
dont even need a service |
| 18:29 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: only possible thing with git is propogation delays, how often does it check for updates etc. |
| 18:29 |
ZenonSeth |
why did you sound srurposed that "configure a server to use another repository of public keys" - you seem to get the idea |
| 18:29 |
ZenonSeth |
no i mean |
| 18:29 |
ZenonSeth |
people host webpages on git |
| 18:29 |
ZenonSeth |
you could host a list of public keys |
| 18:30 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: I apologise if I seemed a tad confrontational, it's just that anything auth related needs poking to ensure it's well fleshed out |
| 18:30 |
ZenonSeth |
its fine |
| 18:31 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: could be worse, it's not like you were suggesting hand-rolling crypto code or something like that, I would have gone to town then ;) |
| 18:31 |
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| 18:31 |
ZenonSeth |
im not a security expert, but i am a dev, and i've dealt with some ssh stuff at work, so that's what im basing my suggestions on |
| 18:31 |
ZenonSeth |
the only issue would be transferring the private key if you want to log in from multiple devices |
| 18:31 |
deltasquared |
yeah, the basic pubkey idea is sound, just a case of being able to specify how the server would obtain/look up pubkeys (as opposed to only being local files say) |
| 18:31 |
ZenonSeth |
so here's what i'm thinking: |
| 18:33 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: eh, transferring privkeys is a categorically hard problem anyway, that's the user's problem to arrange |
| 18:33 |
deltasquared |
though, allowing minetest clients to access them in a secure manner poses an interesting problem |
| 18:34 |
ZenonSeth |
minetest generates private/public key pair (good, free public libs exist). You have some way to upload your public key and username combination, possibly with forum-related info since forums are official - so the "official" git repo gets an addition of your username/public key |
| 18:34 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: those are details of getting the pubkeys onto the server, the devs won't care about that |
| 18:35 |
deltasquared |
they'll only care how to retrieve them once they're present |
| 18:35 |
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| 18:35 |
ZenonSeth |
the server has a reference and optional flag to reference that repo, and check against it - if its on, when someone logs in, the server does the usual "sign this unique data for me", client encrypts unique data with private key, server trries to decrypt with well known public key for your username - if it fails, its not you |
| 18:36 |
deltasquared |
details of a registration mechanism can be worked out later, and indeed the authentication "backend" in minetest as it were can be tested without any "official" registration mechanism, it can be worked out later. |
| 18:36 |
ZenonSeth |
the unique data is usually some known string + timestamp, to ensure no one can re-use that encrypted package |
| 18:36 |
ZenonSeth |
well, true |
| 18:37 |
ZenonSeth |
registration mechanism still needs to be ok though, but yea |
| 18:37 |
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| 18:37 |
ZenonSeth |
its more of a problem that if you make registration entirely public, its open to spamming |
| 18:38 |
ZenonSeth |
anyway, the rest of it is fairly straight forward |
| 18:38 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: that bit about encrypting/decrypting data IIRC is not actually how you prove you have the key, so I wouldn't think too much about that either without at least consulting existing libraries out there |
| 18:38 |
deltasquared |
I get the general approach you're trying to come up with though |
| 18:38 |
deltasquared |
it would just need handling very carefully |
| 18:39 |
ZenonSeth |
why is not how you prove? |
| 18:39 |
ZenonSeth |
that is how digital signing works |
| 18:39 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: well I might not know the details about it but I would suspect you might not be 100% on the theory either, so again just don't worry about the details of it |
| 18:40 |
ZenonSeth |
deltasquared: so you can't tell me why, you just think its wrong, and even if its wrong i shouldn't worry about it? |
| 18:40 |
deltasquared |
with crypto, if in doubt, you're probably wrong. you might be right, I just haven't looked into this area myself |
| 18:40 |
ZenonSeth |
ok |
| 18:40 |
deltasquared |
I just trust ssh keys to work for instance, it's magic to me :P |
| 18:40 |
ZenonSeth |
i don't think this conversation is going productive |
| 18:41 |
ZenonSeth |
it's not magic |
| 18:41 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: it needs someone with knowledge on the issues for instance |
| 18:41 |
deltasquared |
ZenonSeth: magic was half joking |
| 18:41 |
deltasquared |
I am partly aware of the maths and concepts involved, but I couldn't prove it's soundness for instance. |
| 18:46 |
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| 18:53 |
salahzar |
regarding https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13370 Can the author or any other assist me in understanding how to make it work this mod (?) with 0.4.16? I unsuccessfully tried but had big problems in having it working :( Can you please teach me how should I install it and the steps to be able to run the mapgen correctly and to experience it? I need to make a demo to some teachers as a very interesting way to teach moo |
| 18:53 |
sfan5 |
try not leaving before having your answer |
| 18:54 |
sfan5 |
you will need to install it as a new mod, create a new world (DON'T JOIN), enable the mod and only then join the world |
| 19:01 |
sofar |
you can always enable it and remove your generated map (map.sqlite) after to force re-generation |
| 19:01 |
ZenonSeth |
he left again right before you answered sofar |
| 19:02 |
sofar |
it's fine |
| 19:02 |
ZenonSeth |
he's on web, probably just closing the window.. |
| 19:04 |
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| 19:05 |
ZenonSeth |
is there an approach you guys would recommend for someone to get familiar with the c++ code? |
| 19:05 |
Dargod |
How do I make it so that the function minetest.register_on_chat_message(function(name, message) can handle Unicode? |
| 19:06 |
sfan5 |
it can do that by default |
| 19:07 |
Krock |
Lua doesn't know about encoding, so nothing to do there. |
| 19:08 |
Krock |
ZenonSeth, timing out does not mean they're on the web. It indicates that the connection was lost and not terminated correctly |
| 19:08 |
ZenonSeth |
uh i was going by their login being "gateway/web/freenode" |
| 19:10 |
Dargod |
hmm, <invalid multibyte string> instead |
| 19:23 |
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Dargod |
I duno why, but Unicode symbols not supporting |
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