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IRC log for #minetest, 2017-10-08

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:18 Flairieve Hello
01:20 Flairieve I was trying to make my own mod for Minetest and for some odd reason it seems like the print command doesn't print to the console when I use it on itit.lua?
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01:21 rubenwardy check about the minetest ascii art
01:21 rubenwardy *abov
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01:25 lumberJ Flairieve, you want to print to the in-game console?
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01:25 lumberJ in other words the chat? or the debug file?
01:27 rubenwardy print() prints to the actual console
01:27 rubenwardy or terminal
01:27 rubenwardy the terminal happens to be written to debug.txt as well
01:28 rubenwardy the chat is separate, and is done with minetest.chat_send*. There won't be any players to see the chat when init.lua is ran
01:29 lumberJ alternatively minetest.log(what you want logged) will also print to the debug.txt
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01:31 Flairieve Is there any way for a mod to detect once a world is finished loading?
01:32 Flairieve When I use the lua command print("hello") in my init.lua file, it doesn't appear anywhere in the debug.txt file or the terminal?
01:33 lumberJ i have had trouble with that too, Flairieve
01:33 lumberJ try minetest.log() instead
01:33 lumberJ it may depend on OS but i'm not sure
01:33 Flairieve I'm using Windows 10 but I can try
01:34 lumberJ well, minetest.log() should work regardless. not sure why print() doesn't seem to work in some cases though.
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01:35 rubenwardy Flairieve,  minetest.after(0, function() end)
01:35 rubenwardy it should
01:35 rubenwardy I think you're just missing it, it usually appears above lots of messages that are outputted on load
01:37 Flairieve I went back to the debug.txt file and use the find tool to see that the text doesn't appear, also minetest.log works perfectly so I guess I should be using that instead?
01:37 rubenwardy I'm not sure if print goes to debug.txt, it might just go to the terminal
01:37 Flairieve I tried to see if it went to the terminal but nothing appears
01:38 lumberJ yeah, i'm sure it goes somewhere, but i've never worried about it too much
01:38 lumberJ i just use minetest.log() :P
01:39 rubenwardy heh, print has always worked me to the terminal
01:41 lumberJ rubenwardy, just out of curiosity, what OS do you use?
01:41 rubenwardy Linux :P
01:41 rubenwardy back when Windows had a terminal window, it worked then
01:41 rubenwardy there may be a setting to get it back
01:41 lumberJ thats what i was wondering
01:42 rubenwardy enable_console = true    in minetest.conf
01:42 lumberJ i have run minetest on a usb for windows to teach kids how to mod
01:42 rubenwardy on windows that will open up a black window where print() and other messages are displayed
01:42 lumberJ and the terminal pops up
01:42 rubenwardy that sounds like an older version
01:43 lumberJ a couple versions back maybe
01:43 lumberJ i don't remember exactly
01:43 lumberJ btw, while i got you, thanks for putting out that modding book and all your other work
01:43 rubenwardy Thanks :D
01:44 lumberJ i've come a long way from that
01:44 Flairieve ah then let me try the console then to see if that works
01:44 rubenwardy Shara deserves credit too, she's been working on making it nicer to read
01:44 rubenwardy joint effort
01:44 Shara Mostly you :)
01:45 lumberJ thanks Shara
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01:47 Flairieve I tried enable_console = true which did bring up the console but print doesn't show up on it?
01:48 Flairieve oh wait nvm I did something wrong in my code
01:48 lumberJ :D
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07:51 rdococ YAY!
07:51 rdococ For my birthday, I got a Samsung tablet!
07:51 rdococ I've already installed Firefox Beta and the official Minetest app!
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09:12 w_laenger Who is ironyremarks?
09:12 w_laenger I've got a private message from him/her and I can't find the user
09:14 w_laenger
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09:19 Krock w_laenger, that's OC
09:20 w_laenger What does OC mean?
09:22 w_laenger How are tables in lua implemented?
09:22 Krock OldCoder, owner of http://minetest.org/
09:23 w_laenger Do they use a hashmap or a search tree?
09:23 w_laenger ok, I also got another email from OldCoder
09:23 Krock w_laenger, magic could inside and a giant bubble around with twigs for the API functions
09:23 Krock *cloud inside
09:24 Krock ask Mike Pall or another Lua(JIT) developer
09:25 w_laenger I guess it's documented somewhere online, but I can't search for it because it always shows how to use the table
09:26 w_laenger I got a mail from ‮moc.yriafhtoot@stcejorp-oof
09:27 Krock I also get mails from hot women from around the world and win a million dollar each week by coincidence
09:27 Krock 100% legit
09:28 w_laenger There're those redirection servers, e.g. http://www.onclickmax.com/a/display.php?r=1588287​&sub1=4-65436&treqn=443197223&runauct​ion=1&crr=d83d1a41350fb84dcf90ENTJyQHcvZjMlQ0​MlEDdw9mNyUCNygDN2YDRzUCZpJWdzZjMlQ0Mlwmc1RmNyUCO​zAzN5Q0MlUmbvpnNyUiNzQTN2Q0MlQWazZjMlcTOxMjNENTJk​lGc2ITJ0Q0MlQWauZ0MlAHaw5CcvBHZGJTJyVGduV2Y4B3YGJ​TJt92YuYnczRWYzVWeuEmRyUiRyUSQzUCc0RHaa5302d0c45a​7a4bdef9a&cbrandom=0.4828269138664779&cbt​itle=&cbiframe=0&cbWidth=1920&cbHeig
09:28 w_laenger ht=898&cbdescription=&cbkeywords=&cbref=http%3A%​2F%2Fa.yesadsrv.com%2Fcpxcenter%2Fdpop.php%3Fnid​%3D4%26pid%3D63197%26sid%3D65436%26zone%3D97038%​26durl%3D%26subid%3D664824%26opt1%3D%26opt2%3D
09:28 w_laenger sry, I didn't expect this to be such a long address
09:32 w_laenger Strangely I found it in an instant now although last time it wasn't found so easily https://www.lua.org/doc/jucs05.pdf
09:36 w_laenger I'm thinking about how to implement a FIFO queue in lua efficiently
09:37 w_laenger I guess if I set the values of the content taken from the FIFO to nil, it's not longer recognized as array, is it?
09:39 w_laenger I could also use a ring queue in some situations…
09:49 red-001 w_laenger, welcome to the mailing list
09:51 w_laenger Does _G also have the hybrid table behaviour?
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09:53 red-001 he doesn't tend to follow the regulations on unsolicited mail.
09:54 red-001 w_laenger, _G is just a normal table
09:55 w_laenger normal tables have hybrid behaviour (hashtable and array)
09:55 w_laenger It doesn't make sense to me that anyone would use _G as array for something
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10:06 red-001 w_laenger, but they can if they want to
10:07 red-001 pretty sure that the array thing is just syntax sugar
10:09 w_laenger No, lua tables indeed consist of an array and a hashtable part, see https://www.lua.org/doc/jucs05.pdf
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10:22 rdococ Yay!
10:22 rdococ I am on my tablet!
10:22 JayTheNinja23 hi
10:22 rdococ Hi.
10:22 red-001 ah I see you are trying to use the internals of lua to optimise your code
10:22 rdococ Yay for Samsung!
10:22 JayTheNinja23 LOL
10:23 * JayTheNinja23 is happy, today
10:23 JayTheNinja23 guys can you help me please?
10:23 red-001 w_laenger, you might want to look up the luaJIT implementation
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10:24 JayTheNinja23 hi megaf
10:24 rdococ well, gonna install other stuff. Not installed anything ad-infested yet!
10:24 red-001 hi Megaf
10:25 w_laenger For now I'd like to know wheter I should set unused values (from 1 to minp) to nil in a FIFO
10:25 red-001 I don't know, that's really low level stuff
10:25 w_laenger In the code it's just 1 line difference
10:26 red-001 this seems like premature optimization
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10:27 red-001 you are looking at stuff that might very well be different in different implementations of one Lua version
10:28 red-001 much less different lua versions
10:28 w_laenger Yes, maybe the garbage collector also has an influence on how the array part behaves
10:28 red-001 well ask in #lua
10:29 red-001 and #luaJIT
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10:36 Megaf Hi red-001
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11:58 w_laenger Can you use this pattern for floors in minetest? http://b.reich.io/hahjfe.png
11:59 sfan5 sure, just build a floor according to that pattern with two distintively colored nodes
11:59 sfan5 distinctively*
12:01 w_laenger I often see players don't add patterns to floors, walls and ceilings, why is this?
12:01 sfan5 lack of care
12:02 deltasquared well half joking, but that particular one makes my eyes go funny :P
12:02 deltasquared everyone has their own idea of art styles in MT anyway
12:05 w_laenger no, there are some people who copy things from ‮tfarcenim‭
12:06 Shara It's like asking why the kiddies insist on building weirdly shaped box houses out of nothing but wool.
12:06 Krock wool? they use cobble or dirt
12:06 Shara Usually wool on my server.
12:06 Shara It's creative and I guess they like the colours.
12:06 Krock sometimes also sand from a desert that looks like it has only plain stone because it was all removed
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12:11 w_laenger On survival servers I often see cobblestone ruins built by players
12:12 Shara It makes sense on survival
12:12 w_laenger They look great as ruins imo, only the moss and some plants are missing
12:12 Shara But I prefer to see my players making works of art than cobble shacks :)
12:12 w_laenger It happens especially when cobblestone is in give_initial_stuff
12:12 deltasquared who needs worldgen structures, we got players to do it for us ;)
12:13 w_laenger deltasquared, yes, it is impossible to generate nice cities
12:14 w_laenger The villages mod e.g. puts houses and roads but they all look the same, once you know those houses
12:14 Shara Looks the same + tend to smash server performance, from my experience
12:16 w_laenger Unfortunately there are some admins who remove cobblestone buildings
12:17 deltasquared there was another server that I played on in the other block game (which will go unnamed because the community on this server was ultimately toxic), that had not changed it's map in six years or so. there are structures all over the place that you keep discovering, variation that no mod/plugin could ever match
12:17 deltasquared oh, and some crazy person had dug tunnels going for literally millions of blocks along axis lines and such.
12:18 Fixer minecraft?
12:19 deltasquared Fixer: yes.
12:19 Fixer some minetest servers has same features, incl huge tunnels on axis
12:20 Fixer huge road ways to end of the world in minetest were already constructed in 2011
12:21 Shara I have a player who has spent about a year now just digging decorative tunnels to connect all major building sites. Then another group working on subway tunnels for the same.
12:21 Shara It can be interesting to stumble onto new bits of the networks you never saw before.
12:22 Shara Found a giant cave off one once, where they have made sculptures of giant spiders... eyes light up from mesecons when you get close. :)
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12:23 Fixer this naturally suggests minetest should have a new mod called Drill (with at least 3x3 digging)
12:24 w_laenger Do you mean the technic mining drill?
12:24 deltasquared Shara: that would creep me the hell out, I forgot about mesecon player detectors...
12:24 w_laenger Or the hammer item?
12:24 deltasquared hmm, a hammer tool class would be cool
12:24 Shara deltasquared: yea... I have had some pretty creative players. They were in dark areas as well, so you didn't always seen them until the eye lit up.
12:25 w_laenger That hammer mod removes nodes instead of digging, which is a bug
12:25 deltasquared Shara: I hope no screens were punched in the process
12:25 Shara Heh
12:25 Fixer w_laenger: kinda, but without technic :)
12:25 deltasquared speaking of tool classes, I'm reminded of tinker's construct from MC... battle signs and frying pans, anybody?
12:26 Fixer technic is huge dependancy
12:26 Shara Independent drill mod would be nice.
12:26 Shara Not everyone wants technic itself
12:26 deltasquared but someone using technic would inevitably argue that if you *did* then have technic also that the non-technic one would be OP
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12:27 Shara deltasquared: would all depend on how the mod handled it, and what the goal of the server is.
12:27 Shara My main server is creative, so if something makes it easier for players to build amazing things, I'm all for it.
12:28 w_laenger Shara, how about the replacer mod?
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12:29 Shara w_laenger: I've thought about adding it, but I just don't like it for some reason
12:29 deltasquared wrt items such as drills, I personally find it annoying that technic's ones require shotgunning the mouse, because there isn't a way to bind mouse click to a continuous-fire callback while wielding an item
12:29 deltasquared though, I guess any such mechanism would have to take into count elapsed time and server lag etc.
12:29 w_laenger deltasquared, technic_extras makes mining drills automatic
12:30 deltasquared w_laenger: hmm? I'll have to look at how that works
12:30 deltasquared !mod technic_extras
12:30 MinetestBot deltasquared: More technic mod features [technic_extras] by Hybrid Dog - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=11636
12:31 w_laenger mk3*
12:32 deltasquared "weirdores:antimese" lel
12:33 deltasquared !mod weirdores
12:33 MinetestBot deltasquared: Weird ores (and antigravity) [weirdores] by Zeg9 - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=5721
12:33 Krock Does anyone have an idea why there are so many <name> + 3-digit players on the servers?
12:33 Shara Krock: apps
12:34 Krock random name generating apps?
12:34 Shara Yup.
12:34 Krock eeks
12:34 Shara I know.
12:34 Krock ban *@*.*
12:34 deltasquared if that's an attempt at anonymity I don't really know how useful it'd be
12:34 deltasquared considering loss of items etc.
12:34 Shara It's not the players' fault there are so many stupid apps.
12:35 w_laenger minetest clones?
12:35 deltasquared I would assume there exists something equivalent to "minechat" as well, a simple client that only handles the chat protocol
12:35 sfan5 don't think so
12:36 deltasquared oh? it seems something someone with some spare time would do
12:36 deltasquared granted, you'd probably have to simulate *some* behaviour to not be kicked for hovering or something
12:38 deltasquared sfan5: btw, I was looking at the boat code the other day, noticed that it seemed to be continuously retrieving the player's controls object. would bad things happened if you tried to store this reference somewhere? or is there actually no-where to keep it
12:38 sfan5 isn't get_controls just a table
12:39 deltasquared no idea, haven't looked at the lua API doc closely on this one
12:39 deltasquared ... oh, it's a table of values
12:39 deltasquared I'm an idiot
12:40 deltasquared second question, what happens if you store a playerref and then they log out, does the ref just start being a no-op or returning errors?
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12:42 sfan5 probably segfaults
12:42 deltasquared wow, really? so there's no sane way to hang onto a player ref in a way that the engine can protect itself against?
12:44 deltasquared that said, given that a playerref is userdata, likely there's a C++ pointer or something somewhere. so you'd either have to make *that* refcounted or basically say any playerref that is stored between callbacks becomes invalid
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14:21 deltasquared sfan5: question, if I don't pass param values to swap_node, will the game preserve them? like if I just specify swap_node(pos, { name="default:water" })
14:21 deltasquared (let's assume the nodes under question have the same meanings for param values
14:21 deltasquared )
14:21 deltasquared I guess it wouldn't, considering my existing use of them
14:21 sfan5 likely not
14:22 deltasquared yeah I just realised as I thought about it, I've been using swap_node to things but preserve metadata
14:22 deltasquared so if param2 was preserved say then the water would go all squiffy, as it does other things with that
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15:20 MinetestBot [git] DS-Minetest -> minetest-mods/mesecons: MVPS: Improve object move (#367) c4a1aa0 https://git.io/vdzb7 (2017-10-08T15:18:47Z)
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16:11 fireglow ~seen hybriddog
16:11 ShadowBot fireglow: I haven't seen hybriddog in #minetest.
16:12 fireglow hrm
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16:22 MinetestBot [git] DS-Minetest -> minetest-mods/mesecons: Rewrite pistons (#362) 928f04f https://git.io/vdzhk (2017-10-08T16:21:19Z)
16:26 Krock fireglow, w_laenger isn't online anymore
16:29 fireglow ooh, that's a shame
16:29 fireglow his darkage fork had a few nice nodes in it, but could use some updating from the upstream project
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16:32 Krock open an issue
16:42 MinetestBot [git] DS-Minetest -> minetest-mods/mesecons: Improve movestones (#366) 7094f0b https://git.io/vdzh9 (2017-10-08T16:41:22Z)
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17:27 sovetskiy Hello everubody. How can I use custom pickaxe in minetest.node_dig method? minetest.node_dig(pos, node, digger, custom_itemstack) where custom_itemstack is some pickaxe
17:31 lumberJ sovetskiy why are you trying to insert it into the method like that? what do you want the pick axe to do?
17:33 sovetskiy I want to switch to another pickaxe in some cases while digging nodes
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17:35 lumberJ hmm, minetest.register_on_punchnode might be a better method to try to do that with
17:35 lumberJ http://dev.minetest.net/min​etest.register_on_punchnode
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17:41 sovetskiy node_dig adds wear to current wielded tool. I don't know how to switch to another tool because method player:set_wielded_item require itemstack that REPLACE with currrent one
17:44 lumberJ so if i am understanding for example if you are digging dirt and then you start hitting stone you would want it to automatically switch to your custom pickaxe?
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17:48 sovetskiy I if hit stone I can't break with current pickaxe I want to switch to tougher pickaxe. Sometimes I want to make opposite - to switch to simpler pickaxe (stone) to break simple stones in order not to waste steel pickaxe
17:52 lumberJ well, that will require a lot of code for something you basically do very easily in game, if you have all your tools handy.
17:52 lumberJ you will basically have to run that method for every possible block you could mine
17:52 lumberJ but say you wanted to do that, i still think on_punch_node is the way to go
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17:54 sovetskiy what do you suggest by using on_punch_node method?
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17:55 lumberJ because it will register as you are digging rather once the node is dug
17:57 lumberJ node_dig actually digs the node
17:59 lumberJ where as you don't really want to do anything out of the normal to the node you are digging. the node is simply the signal for a swap to happen in your inventory as you are digging
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19:43 JayTheNinja yes
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20:22 fireglow Krock: is w_laenger still active as a modder?
20:22 Krock dunno
20:23 fireglow do you think adrido would import some nodes from a fork?
20:23 fireglow https://github.com/adrido/darkage and https://github.com/HybridDog/darkage - these are the two projects
20:23 Krock yes, if there's a PR.. otherwise I doubt there's going to happen anything
20:24 fireglow mhm
20:24 Krock it's always good to have a more up-to-date original repo than forks IMO
20:29 Fixer_ lol
20:29 Fixer_ actually there are 3 darkages
20:29 Fixer_ at minimum
20:29 fireglow :S
20:29 fireglow forking is easy, merging is hard
20:30 Fixer_ iirc this is more original darkage https://github.com/davisonio/darkage
20:32 fireglow oh my
20:33 fireglow let's fix all issues by creating the N+1th fork!
20:36 Hawk777 https://xkcd.com/927/ seems relevant
20:39 fireglow yes
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