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IRC log for #minetest, 2017-06-10

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Time Nick Message
00:00 * DS-minetest goes now, bye!
00:00 Wuzzy bye
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02:31 Natechip Hi
02:32 Natechip Since im a Linux Mint noob and dont know how to install Minetest on there, I need help pls :D. I installed the PPA with sudo add-apt-repository ppa:minetestdevs/stable
02:32 Natechip and I did the sudo apt-get update
02:45 fengshaun Natechip, what's the issue?
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02:46 fengshaun sudo apt-get install minetest
02:46 fengshaun $ minetest
02:46 fengshaun or find an icon if it installs something
02:48 fengshaun add-apt-repository tells apt where to find additional software
02:48 fengshaun apt-get update tells apt to update its software list (which also tells apt to get the software list from the repository you just added)
02:49 fengshaun now apt is aware of that something called minetest exists in the list of software you can install
02:49 fengshaun you still have to install it, though
02:49 fengshaun so,
02:49 fengshaun apt-get install <software>
02:49 fengshaun apt-get install minetest
02:49 fengshaun then it will appear in your menus or something
02:52 Natechip oh
02:52 Natechip thx
02:53 bigfoot547 Wait. On Debian without jessie-backports or later, you get an old version.
02:53 bigfoot547 0.4.10
02:53 fengshaun the ppa he's installed has 0.4.16
02:53 bigfoot547 Ok, good.
02:57 Natechip nah im on mint
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05:33 AlexYst Does there happen to be a way to change one's user name in the forums, or am I stuck with my name forever?
05:46 VanessaE you're stuck with it forever, and ever, and even into your next three lives, too :)
05:47 Raven262 http://i.imgur.com/yRzU5Ry.png
05:47 Raven262 my finest work
05:51 AlexYst VanessaE: Ah, well, at least it's not the worst name. Wait ... I get three more lives? SWEET!!
05:51 Raven262 Or make another account if you are so determined xD
05:51 Raven262 But you lose the lives then.
05:51 VanessaE well duh, this IS a video game after all ;)
05:51 Raven262 Or it releases the curse
05:51 Raven262 Either way its a big deal
05:51 AlexYst Raven262: I did consider that, but I'd rather not lose my history. Not that it's a long one, seeing as I lost the password to my old account.
05:52 Raven262 lol
05:52 AlexYst VanessaE: Oh, that kind. That's disappointing. But if I'm only stuck with the name for three more video game lives, it sounds like I can change it soon if I enable damage.
05:52 VanessaE heh
05:53 AlexYst I feel like I never actually play the game any more. I test stuff when I have a break from school, and I build mods, but I don't actually play.
05:53 AlexYst Maybe I'd play if I had a real Internet connection.
05:54 VanessaE congratulations, you've leveled up.  one or two more and you could become a core dev ;)
05:54 AlexYst Ha ha. I need some C++ education before I can do any of that.
05:54 VanessaE hence the additional levels ;)
05:54 AlexYst Ah, good point.
05:55 AlexYst I wouldn't mind putting time into the engine some day.
05:55 AlexYst It seems like the sort of puzzle that would be fun to play with.
05:55 VanessaE the engine could always use more eyes
05:55 VanessaE some of the stuff kilbith has shown lately would really be nice to see backported to minetest
05:56 VanessaE (they're for a fork he works on)
05:57 Raven262 Beware of knives, forks and also spoons.
05:58 Raven262 9/10 didn't get the joke
05:58 Raven262 This one neither
05:58 VanessaE ...
05:59 Raven262 Heh I never found any dota2 players here anyway.
06:00 AlexYst What's wrong with silverware?
06:00 VanessaE it's all tarnished
06:01 Raven262 Just found a mod combo, moretrees + austraila + ethereal = 60 different wood types
06:02 noxvis0 Hello
06:02 noxvis0 Nice to see the new version of mt
06:02 VanessaE hi.
06:02 Raven262 Heh its still not 0.5 :P
06:02 VanessaE good :P
06:03 VanessaE 0.5 will (by design) break stuff
06:03 noxvis0 But I am kinda disappointed by the annoying stuff
06:03 Raven262 how so, VanessaE?
06:03 VanessaE Raven262: new network code at least, maybe modding API changes, who knows what else
06:03 VanessaE noxvis0: annoying stuff like...?
06:03 AlexYst I haven't heard of austrailia. I haven't heard of ethereal until a few days ago, but if it's the one I think I remember it is, that one's pretty nice. And of course moretrees is pretty sweet.
06:04 noxvis0 VanessaE: depending on a red flower to create a bed
06:04 noxvis0 Locked doors still useless
06:04 Raven262 Ah.
06:04 Raven262 Locked doors are not useless
06:05 VanessaE locked doors are fine in servers
06:05 Raven262 lol he tried it in singleplayer
06:05 noxvis0 With mod fixing them, yes
06:05 VanessaE "red flower" == you need dye.  what's wrong with that?
06:05 Raven262 cause red flower is the only source of red dye
06:05 Raven262 which you need for beds
06:05 Raven262 but any dye should do in my opinion
06:05 noxvis0 I can just destroy the blocks around them
06:05 Raven262 :P
06:05 VanessaE noxvis0: area protection mod
06:05 Raven262 :P
06:06 noxvis0 I cant find a red flower
06:06 VanessaE why would a locked door be expected to protect the area around it?
06:06 Raven262 you thought doors protect stuff around them?
06:06 AlexYst Why build on a server if you're going to keep people out? Locked doors seem counterproductive.
06:06 noxvis0 VanessaE: sad that I need a mod to fix gameplay issues
06:06 VanessaE noxvis0: answer the question please
06:06 noxvis0 Which one?
06:07 Raven262 First one?
06:07 VanessaE why would you expect a locked door to protect the walls et al. around it?  the door in your house (in real life) doesn't protect the wood-and-sheetrock walls around it when it's locked, does it?
06:07 noxvis0 I keked
06:08 noxvis0 VanessaE: same for the door itself... just break it
06:08 Raven262 No, its protected by itself
06:08 noxvis0 Raven262: in real life
06:08 Raven262 Ah.
06:08 VanessaE the door protects itself, that's all you can reasonably expect it to do.  Are you suggesting that minetest_game needs a default "protection" mod?
06:08 Raven262 DIdn't visit that place in a while.
06:09 noxvis0 VanessaE: for example yeah
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06:09 noxvis0 Or "lockable" block
06:09 VanessaE then raise an issue on Github minetest_game repository
06:09 VanessaE a default protection mod might not be a bad idea, though most servers already have one
06:09 Raven262 But i doubt protection will be added to mt game :P
06:09 noxvis0 I did, they think its stupid
06:10 VanessaE (my servers use two - one for noobs, the other for experienced users)
06:10 VanessaE issue link?
06:10 noxvis0 Im on mobile, could take a while
06:10 VanessaE https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest_game/issues/954  this?
06:10 VanessaE (not yours, same idea though)
06:11 noxvis0 Yeah
06:11 VanessaE note that this issue is still open
06:11 noxvis0 There should be several tries to convince the devs, fixing it
06:11 VanessaE ergo, the devs do not think it's stupid or useless
06:12 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest​/minetest_game/issues/1712
06:12 VanessaE this one's closed
06:12 VanessaE that one IS stupid, as it proposes making a bunch of locked, owned nodes to be used as walls for a structure.
06:13 Raven262 lol
06:13 noxvis0 Hm
06:13 VanessaE I don't see any other issues that look relevant
06:13 noxvis0 And what about that bed thing?
06:14 VanessaE make a homedecor bed instead ;)
06:14 VanessaE those use white wool, you can colorize it afterward.
06:14 noxvis0 I don't want mods to fix the bad ideas of the default game
06:15 noxvis0 VanessaE: sounds nice tho, why not adding it to the default game
06:15 VanessaE why is requiring dye for a red blanket a bad idea?
06:15 noxvis0 VanessaE: no, a bed
06:15 VanessaE yeah, a bed has a blanket. :P
06:15 VanessaE hell
06:16 VanessaE it isn't even that
06:16 noxvis0 I need to create a flower to craft a bed at all, and red flowers are super rare
06:16 VanessaE a default bed uses red *wool*
06:16 noxvis0 *have
06:16 VanessaE (that is, itself, a slight issue, I'll grant you)
06:17 VanessaE a homedecor bed, on the other hand, needs three white wool, any two wood blocks, and two sticks.
06:17 VanessaE (I should adjust that recipe to require a lump of iron also, to represent the wrought iron frame of the bed)
06:17 noxvis0 I don't want mods
06:17 VanessaE everyone wants mods.
06:17 noxvis0 No,
06:17 VanessaE minetest_game is pretty boring by itself
06:18 VanessaE and it isn't meant to be complete or complex
06:18 noxvis0 that's the problem
06:18 VanessaE it's meant to be a platform on top of which you add mods to get what you want.
06:18 VanessaE that's by design
06:18 noxvis0 VanessaE: if the default game wouldn't have this issues, it would be fine
06:18 VanessaE then submit a proposal to change the recipe for the bed :P
06:19 noxvis0 I did
06:19 AlexYst The problem with building structures out of locked nodes is that you need to be able to protect the air too. Otherwise, vandals can fill in the spaces and make your, for example, house unusable without removing even a single one of your nodes.
06:20 VanessaE noxvis0: I see no relevant issue, open or closed, with the words "bed" and "recipe" in the title, except for one from paramat proposing to add beds in all colors
06:20 VanessaE well there is a similar issue by Echoes91
06:21 VanessaE but paramat's proposal would supersede it
06:21 AlexYst Ha ha, everyone wants mods ... I'm'a have to side with noxvis0 on that. I'd love not to need mods, myself.
06:21 noxvis0 VanessaE: Google is pretty nicr
06:21 VanessaE noxvis0: I am looking at github.
06:21 noxvis0 Try cheaper beds minetest, first reult
06:22 VanessaE ...is a closed issue.
06:22 AlexYst I'm still not sure why we have beds at all. They're okay, I guess, but certainly not a necessity. So do they *need* to be cheap?
06:22 VanessaE and as you can see, it's a duplicate of two others both of which are still openb
06:23 VanessaE both of which I mentioned above.
06:23 VanessaE so no, the devs don't think the idea is stupid
06:23 VanessaE but sometimes to do it right means doing it rather differently than you might have wanted.
06:23 noxvis0 AlexYst: yes, I need a respawn point
06:24 AlexYst Seems like a luxury. Cost would make sense.
06:24 AlexYst Although, the fact that you can't set your spawn point until nighttime? Um ... really?
06:24 noxvis0 AlexYst: am I supposed to find my old location by myself, 2000 blocks away?
06:25 VanessaE noxvis0: sethome.
06:25 AlexYst I'm not sure beds were added because they're the best way to do it, but more because that's how Minecraft does it.
06:25 VanessaE I believe that's a feature already present in minetest_game
06:25 AlexYst noxvis0: If you want to live near the spawn point, don't build so far away.
06:25 noxvis0 If there would be autosaves, that would also solve the problem
06:26 VanessaE noxvis0: you should be able to /sethome at wherever you want, then use /home later to get back there.
06:26 noxvis0 AlexYst: I have to search for stuff far away
06:26 AlexYst I had some users on my old server complain that other users didn't want to visit them because they built so far away. Their logic was that I should grant everyone fast. My logic was that if they wanted visitors, they should build closer.
06:26 noxvis0 VanessaE: how to do it on android
06:26 VanessaE noxvis0: just as I said.  /sethome  and  /home
06:27 VanessaE I'm pretty sure those have been part of minetest_game for a couple of releases now
06:28 AlexYst That's pretty cool-looking, Raven262! (Sorry, slow connection, took a while to load the screenshot.)
06:28 noxvis0 Commads are kinda cheating
06:28 VanessaE and also bear in mind:  this isn't minecraft.  mods are literally an integral part of minetest_game -- the content you are using is itself provided by a collection of 23 mods that form the game
06:28 AlexYst Commands ... are cheating? More cheating than magic beds?
06:29 AlexYst VanessaE: Good point. THat's a fact I very often overlook, myself.
06:29 noxvis0 VanessaE: whats the point of the default game then?
06:29 VanessaE and commands are not cheating, any more than typing `/status` when you want to check your uptimeis cheating
06:29 VanessaE noxvis0: I told you.  it's an entry level subgame that provides a stable base for mods.  that's its intent.
06:30 VanessaE if you want more, use a different subgame
06:30 VanessaE or add mods or a nice modpack like dreambuilder
06:30 noxvis0 VanessaE: shouldnt the default game  show how great the possibilities are
06:30 VanessaE that's the problem
06:31 VanessaE how do you decide which are are the "great possibilities" that it should show?
06:31 VanessaE everyone has their own idea of what should and shouldn't be in minetest_game
06:31 VanessaE s/are are/are/
06:31 noxvis0 I would suggest shipping minetest with USEFUL games like dreambuilder then
06:32 VanessaE dreambuilder is not a subgame.
06:32 Raven262 xD
06:32 VanessaE it is a modpack.
06:32 VanessaE it is designed explicitly to be used on top of minetest_game
06:32 noxvis0 I.don't care
06:32 Raven262 AlexYst, I'm making a scarab right now, i'll post a screenshot later :D
06:32 VanessaE I do.  I am the maintainer of dreambuilder.
06:33 AlexYst Dreambuilder is awesome for creative players, but not so good for survivalists or people with slow machines. I think dreambuilder would do a number to my laptop.
06:34 AlexYst Raven262: Nice! I might have to look at that later though. It's nearly midnight here, and I should probably sleep at some point.
06:34 VanessaE AlexYst: you'd be surprised how well it runs even on old hardware.  the only real bottleneck is memory.  anything beyond that is really determined by how much heavy stuff you actually build e.g. technic, pipeworks, mesecons, et al.
06:34 noxvis0 If minetest_game is just a base for mods and not supposed to be a useful game, minetest should ship with something like dreambuilder to make minetest great out oft the box
06:34 VanessaE oh G*d.  found the trumper :)
06:34 Raven262 AlexYst ok :D
06:35 * Raven262 is looking at scarab images all the time cause its so hard to build from non existent memory
06:35 VanessaE for the record, there was an official poll and call for subgames a while back - stuff that ought to ship with the engine for users who want something other than plain old minetest_game.  it never really went anywhere after all the suggestions and discussion
06:35 noxvis0 VanessaE: whats a trumper?
06:35 AlexYst VanessaE: Huh. I might have to try it then soon. I never feel like using survival mode unless I'm on a server, and I haven't used a server in ages. I think I have good(ish) RAM, just not too much processing power.
06:36 VanessaE noxvis0: a supporter of donald trump.  "Make minetest great" sounds like a reference to his slogan of "make america great [again]"
06:37 noxvis0 VanessaE: renameing minetest_game to minetest_base to not confuse users with the thought of  it being a useful game
06:37 VanessaE AlexYst: you don't need much processing power, especially for singleplayer usage since you are the one who controls how much load the engine has to take.  memory, you just need whatever your OS wants, plus about 1.5 GB or so.  3-5 GB if you use HDX with it.
06:37 VanessaE noxvis0: minetest has been there, done that.  it did NOT end well.
06:38 noxvis0 What happened?
06:38 VanessaE there was this period where we had "common", "creative", and "survival" components, I think they were called
06:38 AlexYst I don't have enough for HDX then. I think I have 3 "GB", and my LXDE desktop probably doesn't take much of that.
06:38 VanessaE mods and other subgames would depend on one or another or all three,
06:39 VanessaE eventually it got to the point where everything depended on them all, to the point that having them as separate components was a total failure
06:39 VanessaE so it went back to being a single subgame against which mods could depend.
06:39 noxvis0 VanessaE: Dreambuilder is a subgame by the way
06:39 AlexYst Not any more.
06:39 VanessaE noxvis0: again, I am the maintainer of Dreambuilder.  it is not a subgame.  it is a modpack.
06:39 AlexYst Not for a while.
06:40 noxvis0 Then update this! http://www.minetest.net/customize/
06:40 VanessaE I don't maintain that page.,
06:40 VanessaE come to think of it, all of those are outdated.
06:41 Raven262 Yep
06:41 Raven262 They are really outdated
06:41 VanessaE voxelgarden, carbone and BFD are dead, Tutorial not sure where that went
06:41 noxvis0 Then expect users to belief that dreambuilder is a subgame if itd standing on the official site.
06:41 noxvis0 This is the one site should be kept uptodate
06:41 VanessaE dreambuilder is the only one of those listed that's still standing
06:41 AlexYst Wow.
06:42 noxvis0 Well, someone should change that then
06:42 Raven262 Carbone is abandoned but is also playable
06:42 AlexYst That's the problem with having devs everywhere. You get a lot of awesome stuff, but information on it isn't in sync.
06:43 noxvis0 VanessaE: you care about your subgame/modpack
06:44 VanessaE I do.
06:44 VanessaE but I have no control over that page (I did just leave a note in the developer's channel about it though)
06:46 noxvis0 Minetest as a project needs some improvement
06:46 noxvis0 Its seems not well organized
06:46 VanessaE such is the nature of most open source projects.
06:47 Raven262 And such shall it be.
06:47 VanessaE too many users wanting stuff in different ways, too few developers to make it happen
06:47 noxvis0 No, there a well organized groups in many oprnsource projects
06:47 Raven262 I doubt that making someone the project's "leader" would do much good.
06:47 AlexYst Organisation sounds good on the surface, but remember that everyone here is a volunteer.
06:47 Raven262 And people don't like being ordered to do stuff.
06:48 VanessaE "There is no such thing! You've got 240 million voices all yellin' for something different. The only thing you all seem to agree on is you don't want higher taxes. "The voice of the people" my fanny!
06:48 VanessaE "
06:48 Raven262 xD
06:48 Raven262 Yes, much like that.
06:48 noxvis0 VanessaE: gzdoom have a good organization, also Xonotic
06:48 VanessaE (no such thing, "the voice of the people")
06:48 VanessaE anyway, gotta run
06:48 Raven262 Gzdoom is much smaller dev team i think
06:48 AlexYst I bet some of those people *do* want higher taxes too. THey can't even agree on that.
06:48 VanessaE back tomorrow.
06:49 VanessaE noxvis0: download some mods.  you'll thank us all later.
06:49 noxvis0 Raven262: yes, but they do very well
06:49 Raven262 Zdoom has bigger team i think
06:49 Raven262 And gzdoom is like its fork
06:49 Raven262 Also i zandronum
06:49 Raven262 *is
06:49 noxvis0 VanessaE: I think I will play doom
06:50 Raven262 lol
06:50 * AlexYst checks their XHTML for validity, then commits and turns n for the night
06:50 Raven262 I play it all the time :D
06:50 AlexYst I should get going too. 'gnight!
06:50 Raven262 bb
06:50 noxvis0 Raven262: zdoom = gzdoom
06:50 Raven262 nah
06:50 AlexYst s/n/in/
06:50 Raven262 gzdoom = zdoom + opengl
06:51 Raven262 But gzdoom is always one step behind zdoom with features
06:51 noxvis0 Raven262: just go to zdoom mainpage
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06:51 Raven262 I'll check it out
06:51 noxvis0 Stop spreading useless info, you will understand then
06:52 noxvis0 Go to the download section, they explain the relation of both
06:52 Raven262 Oh not, not that new website.
06:52 Raven262 Zdoom is discontinued now?!
06:52 Raven262 Where is this world going to?!
06:53 Raven262 Well, then you are right noxvis0
06:53 noxvis0 Yeah
06:53 Raven262 I have been absent from that game for some time
06:53 Raven262 from the internet i mean, i play hexen all the time :P
06:54 noxvis0 Gzdoom is the offical replacement of the zdoom engine
06:54 noxvis0 The same people are working on it
06:54 Raven262 Awesome
06:54 Raven262 I never liked them being partially divided before
06:54 noxvis0 Raven262: now something else that you might like, there is someone porting it to Android
06:55 Raven262 No way xD
06:55 Raven262 Link?
06:55 noxvis0 https://github.com/nvllsvm/GZDoom-Android
06:56 Raven262 I'll try it out later, when i have an android device available to me.
06:56 noxvis0 Its not by the official devs but if stable it might be
06:56 noxvis0 Raven262: its working with mods and stuff
06:56 Raven262 Did you try making some doom maps yourself, noxvis0?
06:56 Raven262 Nice.
06:57 noxvis0 (Russian Overkill is flawless)
06:57 Raven262 xD
06:57 noxvis0 Raven262: no, not yet
06:57 Raven262 DM + russian overkill = endless fun
06:57 Raven262 *Deathmatch
06:58 Raven262 I made a map for all out war few months ago.
06:58 Raven262 And it was very well received by the players
06:59 * noxvis0 uploaded an image: file1497077934204.png (580KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/matrix.org/LEzoSxHELkvsuPgQAROHAEuv>
06:59 * noxvis0 uploaded an image: file1497077939462.png (198KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/matrix.org/GtuttDUPFPSKOtViQpvosokI>
06:59 * noxvis0 uploaded an image: file1497077944886.png (334KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/matrix.org/UPHzPRbLupvkxeYOvwYNBkaS>
06:59 Raven262 I doubt it could get more insane than that xD
06:59 noxvis0 Yep
06:59 Raven262 Did you play zandronum?
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07:00 Raven262 The multiplayer port of zdoom/gzdoom
07:00 noxvis0 I broke my PC, and there is no android port
07:00 Raven262 damn.
07:00 Raven262 Thought to invite you to some deathmatch
07:00 Raven262 xD
07:00 noxvis0 XD
07:00 Raven262 Or hexen, if you like it more
07:01 noxvis0 Its OK, I like all doom engine games
07:01 Raven262 Did you complete them all?
07:01 noxvis0 But I think harmony is my favorite game
07:01 noxvis0 Raven262: no, I completed doom and doom2
07:01 Raven262 odd, i never played it
07:02 Raven262 i once completed ultimate doom with no pauses
07:02 Raven262 in one morning
07:02 noxvis0 Its really nice, also working on android
07:02 Raven262 only an iwad, right?
07:03 noxvis0 Its standalone
07:03 noxvis0 http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Harmony
07:04 noxvis0 Its a pretty scary game
07:04 noxvis0 The monsters are well done,
07:05 noxvis0 I love it
07:05 Raven262 What an odd art style Oo
07:05 Raven262 Yes it looks nightmare-ish
07:06 noxvis0 http://rabotik.nl/harmony.htm
07:06 noxvis0 Check out the homepage
07:06 Raven262 Nice.
07:07 Raven262 I'll try it out when I'm on mood for playing doom
07:07 Raven262 *in
07:08 Raven262 Did you play strife?
07:08 Raven262 I think that one has the best story
07:08 noxvis0 Its just well done, absolutely my favorite
07:08 noxvis0 View the short comic telling the opening story of Harmony.
07:08 noxvis0 http://rabotik.nl/download/comic-harmony.pdf
07:08 Raven262 I read some story on the wiki
07:10 Raven262 wow, how well does that comic fit the game's design :O
07:11 noxvis0 Awesome right?
07:11 noxvis0 Have not played threw, its hard
07:12 noxvis0 Also its compatible with Russian overkill
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07:12 Raven262 I doubt playing games with RO is that fun xD
07:13 Raven262 That can be considered a cheat actually.
07:13 Raven262 Well, if i were to choose my favourite doom engine game it would probably be zen dynamics
07:14 Raven262 it is not long but has some really nice details
07:22 noxvis0 Haven't tried that
07:22 Raven262 No?
07:23 Raven262 You have no idea what you missed xD
07:23 noxvis0 Give me a link
07:23 Raven262 https://zdoom.org/wiki/Zen_Dynamics
07:24 Raven262 Also if you are going to play it, i have to tell you, don't exit trough the portal at the end, you'll see why.
07:27 VanessaE well so much for that idea.
07:27 * VanessaE can't even settle in to sleep :-/
07:27 noxvis0 Raven262: u know Icarus lives?
07:27 Raven262 I played a game called Icarus
07:27 Raven262 By tnt team
07:28 noxvis0 No, the YouTube guy
07:28 Raven262 Nope
07:29 noxvis0 https://m.youtube.com/user/ICARUSLIV3S
07:29 noxvis0 He reviews Doom mods
07:29 Raven262 Oh, i see.
07:30 noxvis0 https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list​=PLrQnnXQh0V2e53QZ4yRpsjA8ebLYm89Ps
07:30 noxvis0 Raven262: he seems to have checked Zen dynamics, ill look at that
07:31 noxvis0 Raven262: oh dude
07:31 noxvis0 U know total chaos???
07:32 noxvis0 https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLrQnnXQh0​V2e53QZ4yRpsjA8ebLYm89Ps&amp;v=P3y0se35yvM
07:33 Raven262 This total chaos is far from doom imo.
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07:40 noxvis0 Buuuut its a doom mod
07:40 VanessaE ...this from the guy who thinks a game should be complete and not need any mods? :)
07:40 Raven262 With high resolution models and textures?
07:41 Raven262 Extremely high resolution
07:41 Raven262 I don't say its bad, but its simply doesn't have the doom feeling to it
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07:57 CWz Hello
07:57 Krock servus
08:02 DS-minetest slave
08:03 ^7heo moin
08:03 noxvis0 Raven262: its made to be different
08:04 ^7heo Yay apple.
08:06 Raven262 Yes i know
08:06 Raven262 But well, i prefer the old zdoom style
08:06 Raven262 *doom style
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10:20 Calinou hi
10:21 Calinou <Raven262> But gzdoom is always one step behind zdoom with features
10:21 Calinou in fact, GZDoom even switched to GPLv3 two months ago :P
10:21 Calinou which makes it the first ZDoom-compatible port to be GPL-compatible
10:21 Calinou (it only took us like 16 years for that)
10:21 Calinou this led to Freedoom now recommending it as the reference port
10:21 Calinou (and they no longer recommend PrBoom+ or Odamex)
10:22 Calinou it'd be nice if GZDoom got proper multiplayer, so we can ditch Zandronum for some things at least
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10:45 Raven262 Two months ago, I was absent from the scene for about a year
10:45 Raven262 So, yes i did have some outdated info there.
10:46 Raven262 Yes gzdoom's multiplayer is really bad, i thought those were just the rumors until i tested it myself.
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11:24 MinetestBot [git] Thomas--S -> minetest/minetest: Order es_DrawType exactly like enum NodeDrawType in nodedef.h (#5946) 9c497aa https://git.io/vHDKf (2017-06-10T11:24:05Z)
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11:49 MinetestBot [git] DS-Minetest -> minetest/minetest: fix an example in lua_api (#5604) 07be63b https://git.io/vHDKM (2017-06-10T11:49:28Z)
11:49 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: C++11 patchset 6: forbid object copy using assigment/copy function de… ab128e0 https://git.io/vHDKD (2017-06-10T11:49:15Z)
11:52 MinetestBot [git] red-001 -> minetest/minetest: Add a server-sided way to remove color codes from incoming chat messa… 25ae073 https://git.io/vHDKQ (2017-06-10T11:49:44Z)
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16:38 AlexYst I need to know what node was dug, what the node dropped, and what player dug it, all at the same time. Minetest doesn't provide a way to know all of this at once, so I stapled something together. I hooked into minetest.get_node_drops() and had it add the node dug to the returned list under a non-numeric key. Then, when minetest.handle_node_drops() is called with the output and the player object, I have all
16:38 AlexYst three pieces of data. However ... It seems minetest.get_node_drops() is called when attached nodes fall, too, in case they don't drop themselves. There's no digger, so minetest.handle_node_drops() isn't called to remove my key. It results in the attached nodes being duplicated. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get all three pieces of information at once without introducing item-duplication
16:38 AlexYst bugs?
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16:42 Hawk777 AlexYst: if handle_node_drops is called immediately after get_node_drops without any other intervening calls to get_node_drops, just stash the data somewhere not in the drops list but in a private data structure of your own, so it won’t affect drops if handle_node_drops is never called? Not really a Minetest solution, just a general programming solution, as I’m not a Minetest modding expert. Depends entirely on whether g
16:42 Hawk777 ps can be called multiple times and then handle_node_drops using its return value later.
16:44 AlexYst Hawk777: It seems it's not immediately (or at all) called every time though, and even if it was, I fear race conditions.
16:45 Hawk777 Yeah, that is a problem. If everything is single-threaded and it’s just a straight line get followed by handle, then no problem. Even if handle isn’t called for that particular get ever, then the next time the event happens, the get will overwrite your internal data and everything will be fine. But if things could be interleaved, so get#1, get#2, handle#1, then it won’t work.
16:45 AlexYst With multiple players digging at once, it could get messy.
16:45 Hawk777 Unless you can use the identity of the table somehow.
16:46 AlexYst Hmm. I wonder if I can do that. I'll look into Lua's capabilities.
16:46 Hawk777 If the actual table returned by get is passed to handle, you could organize a lookup table around that. It would eventually fill up with stale data that was returned by get but never passed to handle, but you could introduce a timeout to clean it up.
16:46 Hawk777 Which is horrible, but might work.
16:47 AlexYst Yeah, I was thinking about the memory leak there as well.
16:58 AlexYst I can
16:58 AlexYst I can't seem to find such a table ID option.
16:58 AlexYst All I can think is to completely overwrite minetest.dig_node(), but that will be hugely overkill.
16:59 AlexYst I'd have to copy almost the entire original function into my own code just to keep it behaving the same.
17:00 AlexYst And then, if someone's on a more-recent version of Minetest than me (or less recent, even), it'll alter how the basic digging feature works.
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17:02 AlexYst What if ... I append a zero to the node name? Minetest's built-in functions will then interpret it as a stack of zero, an empty stack. However, my code will know to remove the zero.
17:02 AlexYst I think this might work.
17:04 Hawk777 Oh, that could work.
17:07 Hawk777 AlexYst: Actually you can do it. Just use a table as the key in another table.
17:07 Hawk777 Two distinct tables act as distinct keys in that case, even if they have the same contents.
17:08 Hawk777 But the zero-size itemstack seems cleaner since you don’t have to deal with cleaning stale data.
17:11 AlexYst Hawk777: Huh. Do the tables still work as keys when modified, do you know? Like, would the table/key reference the same value after items in the table are changed?
17:11 Hawk777 Yes, it does.
17:11 Hawk777 I just tested.
17:12 AlexYst Oh, sweet. Also, doh, I should've just tried it instead of asking, ha ha.
17:15 AlexYst Lua's sense of indexing is so unintuitive. I need to cut off two characters from a string, so the third argument to string.sub() needs to be -3. Not -2, but -3.
17:18 AlexYst Okay, sweetness. The bug is fixed.
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17:43 habeangur Hi all
17:44 habeangur wiki.minetest.net's Download sections is not updated yet says 0.4.15 is the latest release
17:45 habeangur section*
17:46 sfan5 ^ Calinou
17:46 habeangur How many releases would you have in a year?
17:46 sfan5 roughly 2
17:47 VanessaE ...unless we start doing point releases
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17:49 habeangur the first release in 2017 was 0.4.16 and the next one will be 0.4.17
17:49 habeangur and no releases till 2018?
17:49 VanessaE habeangur: only if there are point releases.
17:49 VanessaE 0.4.16 is expected to be the last major 0.4.x release.
17:50 VanessaE after that, 0.5.x
17:51 habeangur VanessaE: any article on Wiki to study more about this?
17:51 VanessaE you'll have to ask around in #minetest-dev
17:51 VanessaE but that's the current plan
17:51 Calinou there, updated Template:Version on the wiki
17:52 Calinou (which always refers to the current Minetest version, and is used on main pages)
17:52 VanessaE 0.5.x just started right as 0.4.16 was released.  there may or may not be point-releases in the 0.4.x line, to backport fixes and features from 0.5.x
17:52 AlexYst Huh. I wonder what big changes are planned that warrant such a big version jump.
17:52 habeangur Oh
17:52 habeangur nyan cat is removed
17:52 AlexYst Isn't that awesome!?
17:52 * AlexYst hates nyan cats
17:53 VanessaE nyan cat is trademark issues.  it was removed between 0.4.15 and 0.4.16 to keep the guy who owns those trademarks from being able to go full-asshole again.
17:54 VanessaE for a while, we had pb&j pup, an original creation of my own, to replace it.  that was not well-received because people wanted nyan cat./
17:54 habeangur VanessaE: totaly removed or you just changed its name?
17:54 AlexYst ... again? Did the trademark-holder come after us before?
17:55 AlexYst habeangur: Removed. Entirely.
17:55 AlexYst No name, no art.
17:55 Calinou AlexYst: he did not explicitly come after us but VanessaE asked him and he wasn't okay with commercial uses
17:55 Calinou nobody really uses Minetest commercially right now, but we don't know
17:55 habeangur Is there any alternative?
17:55 Calinou probably not... we have other things to focus on anyway
17:56 VanessaE Calinou: not quite
17:56 AlexYst habeangur: The alternative is the PB&J Pup, if you want to install that.
17:56 habeangur AlexYst: by default i meant
17:56 AlexYst Oh, gotcha'. There was, but that was removed too.
17:57 VanessaE I asked him years ago about it, and he was not okay with ANY usage of it, non-commercial or not.  Nowadays, he claims in public sources that he's fine with non-commercial usage, but then he and keyboard cat guy went and sued a game company over use of a variant of their respective images (and won via settlement)
17:57 VanessaE so I created pbj pup to replace nyan cat so that there would be no possibility of that happening to us.
17:57 AlexYst I liked it, though I thought the candy trail needed some new textures. It wasn't well-received though.
17:58 habeangur the PR 1658 was closed
17:58 habeangur why?
17:58 Calinou VanessaE: right, thanks for the clarification
17:58 VanessaE the candy trail was meant to be a static image, sofar added the animation and the sound effects.
17:58 habeangur sorry I ask too much
17:58 habeangur lemme study github comments
17:58 habeangur and forum replys
17:59 AlexYst I built a mod that puts you on a bunck of quests, the second-to-last of which was to find a PB&J Pup. The Pup died before I could complete and release though.
17:59 AlexYst VanessaE: Ah. It probably would've been better static.
18:00 AlexYst s/bunck/bunch/
18:00 VanessaE AlexYst: the mods for it and nyan still exist
18:00 * AlexYst stabs the nyan cat mod
18:00 VanessaE but imho pbj pup ought to be added back to mt_game, just without the sound effects, animation, etc
18:00 habeangur VanessaE: so it will be added to mt_game right?
18:01 AlexYst I'm getting used to not having it, but it'd be nice to have it back; a rare node to be surprised by finding is fun.
18:01 VanessaE habeangur: if it were up to me, yes, but it is not up to me
18:02 VanessaE poke at the folks in #minetest-dev
18:02 VanessaE or ask in #minetest-hub maybe
18:03 habeangur How about Tac Nayn?
18:04 habeangur Is it good enough to be added to mt_game?
18:04 AlexYst Um. Trademark issues, I'm almost certain.
18:05 AlexYst We'd need something original that we can license or we'd need something already under a CC BY-SA-compatible license.
18:05 AlexYst Hence, PB&J Pup.
18:06 VanessaE precisely the reason for it, AlexYst
18:06 VanessaE part and parcel.
18:09 habeangur ok
18:10 Calinou time to create something original, the Antimicrosoftite
18:10 Calinou a rare, elusive ore minable only with the Tux Pickaxe
18:12 AlexYst But one must have this mineral to craft the pick to begin with. A loop! No wonder no one hates Microsoft enough to leave.
18:13 AlexYst Okay, maybe that wasn't as funny as I meant it to be.
18:16 MinetestBot [git] octacian -> minetest/minetest: Menu: Do not use textlist for shaders in settings tab (#5820) a9f02ab https://git.io/vHDhG (2017-06-10T18:14:26Z)
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20:01 red-001 https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=53&amp;t=17176
20:01 red-001 !title
20:01 MinetestBot red-001: Client-side modding section - Minetest Forums
20:01 red-001 can the topic be locked?
20:04 red-001 oh nvm
20:04 red-001 ignore what I just said
20:05 red-001 I meant that https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=53&amp;t=17830 should be pinned and locked since it went offtopic
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