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IRC log for #minetest, 2017-05-26

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:10 wilkgr joined #minetest
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00:42 wilkgr It's pretty funny how Infiniminer and Minetest 'share' a bug
00:45 AlexYst wilkgr: What bug is that?
00:45 wilkgr Falling through blocks sometimes
00:45 AlexYst Hmm. I haven't experienced that one.
00:45 wilkgr Pretty easy to replicate once you know how
00:45 AlexYst Maybe it's as hard for our devs to solve as their devs though.
00:46 AlexYst Our devs are more awesome, but they still have limitations.
00:46 wilkgr Ofc ;)
00:47 wilkgr I was just amused that they have a completely different codebase and yet have the same bug
00:47 AlexYst Ha ha, yeah, that is pretty strange.
00:48 * AlexYst goes into crackpot conspiracy mode
00:48 wilkgr xD
00:48 AlexYst Maybe they *don't* have completely different code bases.
00:48 wilkgr Good point
00:48 AlexYst We can't copy their code because they keep theirs a secret.
00:49 AlexYst That means that *they* copied *our* code.
00:49 wilkgr Infiniminer also has two separate executables - for client and server
00:49 AlexYst But they came first. That means ... they have *time travel technology* at their disposal.
00:49 wilkgr This makes me question why there is no such thing as #minetest-offtopic tbh
00:49 AlexYst wilkgr: We used to have two separate executables, one for client and one for server.
00:49 wilkgr Linux still does
00:50 AlexYst Really? I'm on Linux, and the compiler only spits out one executable.
00:50 wilkgr Ohh, I was building with -DBUILD_SERVER=1
00:51 AlexYst Ah, so it still has an option to do that. Interesting.
00:52 * AlexYst exits crackpot conspiracy mode
00:52 wilkgr I found an error in your conspiracy theory FWIW
00:52 wilkgr Infiniminer is Windows-only
00:53 AlexYst wilkgr: They chose to build the Windows version. Without a source code release, we don't know what other systems the game could be built for.
00:53 wilkgr Aye
00:53 AlexYst Honestly though, I'd forgotten that trait. I forgot it was a Windows-only game.
00:53 wilkgr But it uses a Microsoft toolkit for rendering I believe. Would you like to move this convo to a different channel so we don't get kicked for off-topic?
00:54 AlexYst Sure. Any suggestions?
00:54 wilkgr #AlexYstOfftopic ?
00:54 wilkgr (temp channel :P)
00:56 rubenwardy #minetest-offtopic is a thing
00:56 wilkgr Hmm
00:56 wilkgr Interesting
00:58 * AlexYst adds that one to auto-join
00:59 * wilkgr does too
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03:07 Hijiri didn't zach open source infiniminer at some point? And then write a blog post about regretting it
03:21 Grandolf <AlexYst> But they came first. That means ... they have *time travel technology* at their disposal. lets pretend they do... y do they need our code?
03:21 Grandolf :P
03:34 Calinou Hijiri: the source code was leaked
03:35 Calinou apparently, it ended up being release under MIT, in 2009, https://github.com/gibbed/Infiniminer
03:35 Calinou the author linked here, https://github.com/krispykrem, deleted their account entirely
03:45 AlexYst Grandolf: They have the same bug as us. It's not that they need our code, just that they must be using our code, bug and all.
03:45 AlexYst Oh, nice. The code's available.
03:46 AlexYst Now if we ever find the bug in the code, we can verify the bug is indeed the same code in both games.
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04:06 wilkgr lol
04:10 wilkgr I found the blog post http://thesiteformerlyknownas.zachtro​nicsindustries.com/apparently-im-now-​in-charge-of-an-open-source-project/
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05:05 tiwake what version of lua does minetest use again?
05:32 Calinou tiwake: 5.1
05:33 Calinou because of LuaJIT
05:33 Calinou don't use 5.2 or 5.3-specific features, they won't work anyway I guess
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05:48 EDAKIRI I wish to change leaves so that all detached leaves decay -- including placed ones. Where would I need to change?
05:55 AlexYst EDAKIRI: There are a few ways. The easiest would probably be to remove the leaves' on_place method, though that won't make leaves that were placed before you removed it decay.
05:55 AlexYst EDAKIRI: Another way would be to alter the ABM not to check the param2 of the leaves before decaying them.
05:56 AlexYst That second way *will* cause previously-placed leaves to die.
05:56 EDAKIRI Are each in the C++ code or Lua?
05:57 AlexYst EDAKIRI: The Lua. THey're in the "default" mod of Minetest Game.
06:03 EDAKIRI nodes.lua :   minetest.register_node("default:leaves",
06:03 EDAKIRI groups = {fleshy = 3, dig_immediate = 3, flammable = 2, leafdecay = 3, leafdecay_drop = 1}
06:06 EDAKIRI The leafdecay_drop is on apple , but nothing else.
06:07 EDAKIRI perhaps if i add it to other leaves, they decay?  I don't see an on_place method for them.  I am looking at the dev head version.
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06:09 EDAKIRI leafdecay_drop is used in functions.lua , but i don't understand it.
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06:25 EDAKIRI I think it makes an apple possibly result from apple leaf decay.
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06:39 EDAKIRI delete: after_place_node = default.after_place_leaves,
06:41 EDAKIRI or change default.after_place_leaves -- same thing.
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07:16 EDAKIRI Eliminating after_place_leaves was not adequate.
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10:36 IhrFussel How to check if a object is a player? does obj:is_player() work?
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11:27 Krock IhrFussel, yes sure
11:27 Krock works on any ObjectRef
11:29 IhrFussel Krock, alright and obj:get_player_name() will return "" if it's not a player if I understood it correctly
11:41 Krock from what I see in the source code, yes.
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12:00 EDAKIRI What is wrong with this Lua?  > print(true?"A":"C")
12:00 EDAKIRI error message:  ')' expected near '?'
12:00 Krock ... that's not lua
12:00 Krock you're using the C(++/#) conditional expression
12:01 sfan5 that type of conditional expression can be found in a lot of languages actuallyy
12:01 Krock instead, try   > print (true and "A" or "C")
12:01 sfan5 but lua isn't one of them
12:01 EDAKIRI Oops.  I saw it on this page and didn't read carefully. and thought it was in Lua.  https://www.lua.org/pil/3.3.html
12:01 EDAKIRI Thanks.
12:02 Krock !next
12:02 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
12:04 MinetestBot [git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: Time: Change old `u32` timestamps to 64-bit (#5818) d99b6fe https://git.io/vHG73 (2017-05-26T12:03:36Z)
12:09 EDAKIRI Krock: must one remove the minetest_game carts to use yours? should one?
12:10 Krock EDAKIRI, no. boost_cart overwrites the MTG carts
12:10 EDAKIRI does boost_cart require any part of MTG carts?
12:10 Krock none
12:11 Krock heck, the MTG carts are basically just a modified non-mesecons version of boost_cart :P
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12:37 EDAKIRI It appears that Lua needs special 'glue' written in C in order to call a C function.  It is not possible to call a plain normal (unprepared) C function from Lua.  Correct?
12:37 EDAKIRI -- because I wish to call a function in game.cpp
12:40 Krock yes, because a Lua function must have the arument 1 being lua_State *)
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12:59 EDAKIRI Is  function name(parameter) body end -- the same as -- name = function (parameter) body end ?
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13:01 Krock yes
13:01 Krock hello kaeza
13:02 kaeza greetings, Krock
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14:06 EDAKIRI I thought that if i install LuaCmd , i could change a non-local variable, but it seems to not.
14:08 Krock strange. is it sandboxed?
14:09 IhrFussel Is the quickest way to check whether or not players are nearby "local pfound = 0 for _, obj in ipairs(minetest.get_objects_inside_radius(pos, 10)) do if obj:is_player() then pfound = pfound + 1 end end ?
14:12 Krock yes.
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14:16 EDAKIRI Krock: probably. i must add it to secure.trusted_mods  .
14:17 Krock only to change global variables this shouldn't be required
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14:47 EDAKIRI LuaCmd can not set a global variable in another mod, even if both are listed in secure.trusted_mods . (current Dev HEAD)
14:49 kaeza maybe it sets its global environment to a temporary one?
14:49 kaeza while it runs code, that is
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16:22 Gambit Hey guys. So a dumbass spammer told me that the freenode staff killed your project dead forever. I'm really sorry to hear that.
16:23 sfan5 :thinking:
16:23 red-002 the old spammer?
16:23 Gambit I dunno he pinged everyone in #minecraft and shouted that staffers killed Minetest. lol
16:23 red-002 oh whats his nick?
16:24 red-002 he might be k-line evading again
16:24 Gambit tilugo; just got k-lined
16:24 sfan5 red-002: it's probably you-know-who
16:24 sfan5 but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
16:24 Gambit idiot even pinged ChanServ
16:24 red-002 lol
16:24 red-002 I think this might be the same person
16:25 Gambit I think, what Freenode really should be focusing on, is killing Minetest PvP
16:26 red-002 if minetest got decent PvP we could do that
16:26 Gambit lol
16:27 Gambit You too could enjoy endless reddit threads about how your game is Ruined Forever™
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16:30 Gambit Well you all seem lovely and not at all destroyed as was reported to us repeatedly in all caps, and as a lover of FOSS I hope you stay that way. Good luck with the continued development of the project. Sorry to have bothered you. I just came over to see wtf was up with that guy. ♥
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16:32 Krock >somehow< I've a particular person in mind
16:33 EDAKIRI Krock: I have some wishes for boost_carts .  Interested?
16:33 red-002 well it could just be another unrelated person that uses a digital ocean ip and hates the project
16:33 Krock EDAKIRI, -> https://github.com/SmallJoker/boost_cart/issues
16:33 EDAKIRI Easiest is, i think the recipes and number of rails gotten in the main minetest are preferable.
16:34 EDAKIRI If you want that as an issue, i will file it.
16:34 EDAKIRI (let me know)
16:35 EDAKIRI oops, i take that back.  I didn't notice. default:mese_crystal is used in main default:mese_crystal_fragment in yours.
16:36 Krock well, if you're sure that there are improvements needed or bugs around, feel free to open an issue
16:36 Krock or a PR to fix it (preferable)
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16:39 red-002 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX3iLfcMDCw
16:40 Krock wtf
16:40 red-002 ^
16:48 EDAKIRI The other is curves of less than 90°  , such as Advanced Trains has. http://advtrains.bleipb.de/
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16:50 Krock well, the current rail type (straight and 90°) is already implemented in the core, which makes it very easy to make the railways look good, anytime
16:51 Krock 45° rails would be nice, very nice. The problem is that this will require to either extend the core feature or implement the rail rotating in the mod itself
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17:12 red-002 hi nealshire
17:13 nealshire sup
17:13 nealshire thought this was dead
17:13 red-002 we just got an old troll spamming people
17:13 red-002 he is angry he got k-lined
17:14 nealshire lol
17:14 Krock can confirm dead but still moving
17:14 Krock perhaps going to consider this rather as "undead"
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17:15 red-002 damn it krock why can't you just stay dead?
17:16 Krock burry me with your money
17:16 Krock *bury, and related: http://burymewithmymoney.com/
17:17 red-002 ah a burial worthy of a Nigerian prince.
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17:59 IhrFussel Lol...I googled "minetest on_server_step" and there was only 1 result containing this sentence "(If you think an internet server is hard, just try making a Mine test server! =: L)."
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18:09 IhrFussel Is there a way to get the owner name of an animal on_step? (Mobs Redo API)
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18:10 MinetestBot tenplus1: May-21 12:42 UTC <IhrFussel> Hello there, one of my players also plays on your server as "laute12" and wanted me to ask you if you could add some command aliases for easier typing like /p1 instead of /area_pos1 because he likes those quite a bit on my server but his English is not good enough to talk to you about it
18:10 MinetestBot tenplus1: May-21 12:43 UTC <IhrFussel> The server I'm refering to is "Xanadu" in case you have more than 1
18:10 rubenwardy <IhrFussel> Is there a way to get the owner name of an animal on_step? (Mobs Redo API)
18:10 MinetestBot tenplus1: May-21 13:02 UTC <IhrFussel> Ignore the previous messages by me, laute12 explained it in a confusing way but what he ACTUALLY meant was "could you ask tenplus1 to add the areas mod AND then add an alias for /area_pos1 and /area_pos2 like /p1 and /p2 for easier typing"
18:10 tenplus1 hi folks
18:10 tenplus1 self.owner gives the owner name
18:11 tenplus1 on_step and many other functions provides access to self.* variables containing ALL mob information
18:12 IhrFussel Ok will try thanks :) ... my plan is to make the owned animal teleport to the player if it's too far away (I hope it's not too heavy)
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18:13 tenplus1 nah, should be easily done...  a simple range check and teleport would suffice per actively owned mob
18:14 rubenwardy checking spherical distance is cheap
18:14 rubenwardy just multiplication - you can leave the sqrt out
18:14 tenplus1 yeah, redo api has a quick check for distance in there :P
18:15 IhrFussel So I shouldn't use for _, obj in ipairs(minetest.get_objects_inside_radius(pos, 10)) do ##check if object is owner ?
18:16 tenplus1 you can get player object from self.owner name and check distance from mob object to owner
18:16 tenplus1 lot faster
18:17 IhrFussel Can you tell me how to get the distance between owner and animal?
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19:28 soupfly_ Hello, I'm having the hardest time trying to configure my Minetest server to give creative mode to the players. I've purged the cofigure files and Minetest server side and started fresh. I've edited the world.mt file to enable creative mode "creative = true". Nothing seems to work. It used to work and I can't figure out what to do.
19:28 Krock "creative" mod missing?
19:29 Krock are you sure that any instance of minetestserver was DOWN when you changed that file?
19:29 soupfly_ I didn't think about that. I was not aware creative mode was a mod outside of the default mod.
19:30 Krock btw, it's "creative_mode = true"
19:31 Krock the server already should have put this setting into the file, so simply change the value
19:31 soupfly_ Oh yes I'll try that
19:32 soupfly_ I'm going to take the server down, remove the file, then restart to create a new one.
19:32 Krock if you want creative mode for specific players only, you'll have to patch your minetest_game version with this one: https://github.com/minetest/m​inetest_game/pull/1543.patch
19:32 Krock no need to remove the file. you can simply change the values without troubles
19:33 Krock or as an alternative to patch: get unified_inventory
19:33 Krock players will most likely have to rejoin after they got the "creative" priv
19:36 soupfly_ No luck on enabling creative mode. I'll try that patch
19:38 soupfly_ thank you for your help
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19:50 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Mapgen files: Update and correct copyright credits 210a339 https://git.io/vHZSM (2017-05-26T19:46:03Z)
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21:26 VaultyTowers OldCoders threats are being dealt with authorities
21:26 VaultyTowers any questions PM me
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21:43 sfan5 uh huh
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22:18 jin_xi hi guise
22:18 VanessaE hey
22:19 jin_xi Hi VanessaE what's up? It's been a while since i checked on MT
22:19 VanessaE not much here
22:20 VanessaE we just entered feature freeze for 0.4.16 release, which is in less than 2 weeks
22:20 VanessaE folks have been missing you :)
22:20 VanessaE you may wish to join #minetest-hub
22:20 jin_xi i noticed a lot of new channels
22:21 VanessaE that's sort of a half-way point between here and #minetest-dev
22:21 VanessaE for users/admins to talk to core devs in a relaxed way (in theory :P ))
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22:22 yumbox how acn I throw a snowball in someones face?
22:22 VanessaE I don't think you can, at least not by default
22:23 VanessaE maybe the old throwing mod can do that?
22:23 yumbox is this game intentionally bad?
22:23 VanessaE (weapons, whatever it's called not)
22:23 VanessaE (now*)
22:23 VanessaE er no, pretty sure it isn't.
22:23 VanessaE it's a free game with volunteers doing the work
22:23 yumbox ah, so it's a bug
22:23 VanessaE it isn't like it's some paid-for professional setup or something
22:24 VanessaE I don't know if I'd call it a bug.  file an issue against minetest/minetest_game on github
22:24 yumbox no thanks
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22:27 VanessaE suit yourself.
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22:38 DI3HARD139 Not gonna ask what that was about....
22:38 DI3HARD139 Let alone if the response from yumbox was necessary,
22:42 VanessaE is it ever?
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23:04 Inocudom Minetest is capable of freezing computers, just like GZDoom, when it runs out of RAM, even when swap is enabled.
23:08 VanessaE blame the OS then
23:09 VanessaE any program will do that if you fill up all available RAM and push it too far into swap
23:10 Inocudom Seems like every program needs at least 16GB these days.
23:11 Inocudom Even Team Fortress 2 has better RAM management, and it is 18GB in size.
23:13 Inocudom Well, me and my computer are just getting too old.
23:13 Fixer wat? TF2 is 18GB?
23:14 Inocudom I bet the Nintendo Switch could run GZDoom and Minetest just fine, and probably any Source engine game as well.
23:14 Inocudom Far as I can tell, but half of it could be the Source engine itself.
23:17 Inocudom Of course, it would be an extremely bad idea to use a Nintendo Switch for that, as you're not supposed to.
23:17 paramat lol yumbox =/
23:18 Inocudom Being an international corporation of unimaginable wealth and power, Nintendo would obviously hate any and all mods, fan projects, and open-source projects.
23:18 paramat nah
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23:22 Inocudom My operating system is Linux Mint, of course. 64-bit version of it too.
23:23 Inocudom I don't know about Minetest, but Source engine and GZDoom are 32-bit. At least, GZDoom does not support more than one cpu thread at a time.
23:26 Inocudom That proves to be a huge problem for GZDoom, one that, hopefully, an individual known as Eiion_ceo is attempting to tackle by making his own source port.
23:27 Inocudom But what about Minetest? Does it and lua have the ability to use more than one thread at a time? If not, then there is a serious power bottleneck.
23:30 Wayward_One No, Minetest is currently not multithreaded
23:31 rubenwardy Minetest is multithreaded
23:31 rubenwardy Mesh generation runs on a separate thread on the client side
23:31 rubenwardy however the rendering is single threaded
23:32 Wayward_One Ah, that's what I meant
23:32 Wayward_One Pardon my lack of clarity
23:33 Inocudom That would explain the framerate slowdowns then.
23:34 Inocudom In a sense, Minetest suffers from the same issue that GZDoom does in terms of performance.
23:35 rubenwardy concurrency is hard to get right
23:35 Inocudom If Minetest was multithreaded then my framerate would probably be twice what it is now. My CPU has 4 cores.
23:35 rubenwardy heh
23:36 rubenwardy what's your GPU like?
23:37 Inocudom Well, rubenwardy, GeForce GT 610 with 2GB, though a faster CPU is said to be helpful to graphics cards,at least in GZDoom's case.
23:38 Inocudom Though I also heard that Minetest doesn't use GPUs as much as it could. Paramat himself opted for a computer with a powerful CPU instead of a powerful GPU.
23:38 Inocudom GZDoom doesn't use GPUs as much as it could, either.
23:40 Inocudom But, someone by the name of Eiiot_ceo, as he claims, is attempting to make a source port like GZDoom that is multithreaded. You see, mods need that feature.
23:46 rubenwardy that won't be possible without ditching Lua
23:46 rubenwardy well, not true multithreading
23:47 rubenwardy also, mods aren't designed for such
23:47 rubenwardy as in, the whole API of sharing a global environment
23:48 rubenwardy the sims has a nice way of doing it
23:48 rubenwardy each object in the sims is its own "thread"
23:49 Inocudom And Eiiot_ceo stated that programs need to actually be updated to use superior hardware in order to do so in the following video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/URgVFoDbAMw
23:49 rubenwardy this doesn't mean they're all actually threads, they could all be ran in one thread with time slicing
23:50 Inocudom Around the 3:30 mark is where Eiiot_ceo speaks on the matter.
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23:56 VanessaE rubenwardy: technically speaking, wouldn't those time slices still BE threads?
23:56 VanessaE just not handled directly by the CPU
23:56 VanessaE I mean, that's how we did preemptive multitasking in the old days - interrupt-driven time-slicing.
23:58 Inocudom Still single core, however. What's the point of getting a multicore cpu if very few things actually use its potential?
23:59 VanessaE browser on one thread, MT on another sound driver on another, video driver on another, network on another, etc etc etc etc
23:59 VanessaE a good OS will delegate cores to tasks according to load
23:59 VanessaE so that each task gets what it needs, if possible

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