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IRC log for #minetest, 2017-05-13

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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06:51 MinetestBot [git] red-001 -> minetest/minetest: Minor pause/escape menu improvements (#5751) 98327a5 https://git.io/v9Q0x (2017-05-13T06:50:19Z)
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07:11 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Android build fix 5cb7f6a https://git.io/v9QEo (2017-05-13T07:10:43Z)
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07:30 AlexYst So I see in the upcoming version of Minetest, it's possible to add to a player's extended attributes using player:set_attribute(). Is there a way to remove (not change, but completely remove) a previously set extended attribute?
07:40 PureTryOut[m] I don't think so. there seems to be only `get_attribute()` and `set_attribute()` available. you could try setting it to nil though, maybe that'll actually remove it
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07:51 AlexYst I'll try it, but I doubt it'll work. It seems to convert everything to a string, so it'll probably convert nil to the empty string.
07:53 AlexYst Ah, it doesn't convert it to a string, it just crashes the game. "String expected, got nil".
07:55 AlexYst The empty string doesn't erase the attribute either. I guess I'll need to be careful then and get my attribute keys right the first time; there'll be no updating the keys later.
08:14 PureTryOut[m] yeah I guess. you could make a request for it though, seems like a good thing to have
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09:06 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Move KeyList & InputHandler from game.h to client/inputhandler.h (#5752) 9b8ca3a https://git.io/v9Q2R (2017-05-13T09:05:16Z)
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09:19 MinetestBot [git] tenplus1 -> Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit: Fix worldedit_gui_lua privs 0ce45a5 https://git.io/v9Qav (2017-05-13T09:17:45Z)
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09:54 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit: Remove formspec tester from worldedit_gui 66b1fa0 https://git.io/v9QVo (2017-05-13T09:52:45Z)
09:54 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit: Refactor priv determination in worldedit_gui a31f955 https://git.io/v9QVK (2017-05-13T09:51:36Z)
09:54 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit: Do not allow any worldedit_gui commands without privs 38e9b42 https://git.io/v9QV6 (2017-05-13T09:51:36Z)
09:54 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit: Remove useless privilege checks ea465f8 https://git.io/v9QVi (2017-05-13T09:51:36Z)
09:56 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> Uberi/Minetest-WorldEdit: Forgot this one during refactor (a31f955fb1e5c512f4559452aa65f590fbbc… 3240167 https://git.io/v9QVS (2017-05-13T09:53:52Z)
10:04 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Limit properly the sound setting at updateSound runtime step (#5753) 6673aff https://git.io/v9QwU (2017-05-13T10:03:11Z)
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10:49 MinetestBot [git] cx384 -> minetest/minetest_game: Change the selection_box of bush stems (#1733) 5bd44c2 https://git.io/v9Qol (2017-05-13T10:49:04Z)
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11:33 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Android dependencies updates (#5755) 0d4d35a https://git.io/v9Q6k (2017-05-13T11:32:59Z)
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12:37 davisonio Can someone unquiet me in #minetest-dev? Seems like 4 days ago anyone with gateway/web/* was quieted (which includes many any irc client that works in browser, not just freenode web chat)
12:37 VanessaE davisonio: use a real IRC client.
12:37 VanessaE webchat is generally muted there
12:38 davisonio Well I'm using an iOS client at the moment, is that real enough?
12:38 VanessaE you're on a webchat.
12:38 davisonio Plenty of reputable people use web chat :)
12:39 VanessaE just get a real IRC client like hexchat or something
12:39 red-002 isn't irrcloud a paid service?
12:39 VanessaE no idea
12:40 red-002 doesn't really sound like the sort of stuff web spammers use
12:40 davisonio I don't see why everyone who uses web chat shouldn't be allowed to speak - spam?
12:40 red-002 I only see those use kiwirc and freenode
12:40 GNU[BDC] you can speak here
12:40 VanessaE davisonio: more like flooding, I imagine
12:41 Out`Of`Control hi
12:41 red-002 I suggest just quieting freenode and kiwirc
12:42 davisonio Hmm well flooding is capable by any user
12:42 red-002 ^
12:42 VanessaE davisonio: but it's less likely from users of real IRC clients, and such users are also easier to ban
12:42 red-002 VanessaE, how so?
12:43 VanessaE red-002: because some webchats don't supply predictable user@host
12:43 red-002 webclients display the users real ip
12:43 VanessaE they try to anonymize the user
12:43 VanessaE not all of them do.
12:43 red-002 just ban those then but by that logic you should also ban bncs
12:43 VanessaE put it this way:  a serious user will get a real IRC client.  it takes only a few minutes,
12:44 VanessaE (at least, they usually will)
12:44 VanessaE it's a good way to filter out trolls and the like
12:45 red-002 considering we still get stuff like this "<makmm> Hello, I know this will sound weird but I want to learn how to make an minetest hack/cheat. Will you help me or no? :3" I say it's not really working
12:46 VanessaE when was the last time you saw something like that in -dev?
12:46 red-002 http://irc.minetest.net/minet​est-dev/2017-05-13#i_4918669
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12:46 VanessaE huh
12:46 red-002 just this morning
12:47 VanessaE hm.  he had a cloak on, no idea what's behind the cloak
12:48 red-002 davisonio, couldn't you get a cloak?
12:48 davisonio I have got one
12:48 red-002 oh irrcloud overrides it
12:48 VanessaE sid182754@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ejfczunhdxudktzu  <-- doesn't look like it to me :)
12:48 davisonio But freenode automatically changes it
12:48 davisonio Well I'm not changing my client for a silly rule :)
12:49 VanessaE it's not a silly rule, there's a reason it exists.
12:49 red-002 I say just ban kiwirc and freenode
12:49 davisonio Very biased against web clients here I don't like it :)
12:49 red-002 thats the only clients I saw used to spam
12:49 VanessaE s/here/there/
12:49 davisonio Well nevermind I'll just chat here haha
12:50 VanessaE come to think of it, it was probably extended past the freenode webchat to stop that "chatter" islam spammer
12:50 red-002 ^
12:50 VanessaE [05-09 17:55] <ShadowNinja> nore: /mode -bq+q chatter29!*@* *!*@gateway/web/freenode* *!*@gateway/web/*
12:50 VanessaE yep, that's what it was
12:51 davisonio Ah
12:51 red-002 just ban chatter*
12:51 davisonio Did that Islam spammer have a host to ban?
12:51 VanessaE he'll just change the bot's name eventually
12:51 red-002 he is using kiwirc
12:51 VanessaE * chatter29 (175c1b59@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.23.92.27.89) has left #minetest-dev
12:52 red-002 http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2017-05-09#i_4914105
12:53 red-002 not sure if it's a bot anymore
12:53 red-002 bots make no typos
12:53 VanessaE unless it's deliberately coded to do so
12:53 VanessaE it's trivial to make automatic "typos"
12:53 red-002 I say ban his ip range
12:56 Krock /ban *!*@*.*
12:57 VanessaE heh
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13:01 Fixer hey guys
13:01 Fixer minetest is doing
13:01 davisonio hey
13:02 VanessaE hi
13:03 Krock hi ThomasMonroe
13:05 red-002 ban 0.0.0.0/0
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13:37 sfan5 chatter*!*@gateway/web/* is already muted though
13:37 sfan5 does the * not match a /?
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15:43 MinetestBot [git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: No cursor lock when window inactive (#5754) febd07f https://git.io/v9QQ6 (2017-05-13T15:42:42Z)
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16:31 AlexYst I'm a WeeChat user, and I still disagree with the bias against Web chat users. Just saying. Not that my two cents will make a difference on the matter though.
16:34 AlexYst Ha ha, I actually got banned from a channel for using Web chat once. I was away from home and tried to reach some people on IRC. I *never* use Web chat, but as I wasn't at my normal computer, I didn't have my client or my password. I used Web chat, and they thought I was an imposter. THey banned me.
16:35 Krock register an account and remember the NickServ password
16:35 Krock that's how you prevent from this situation
16:35 Calinou can we have a bias against Weeb chat users instead?
16:36 AlexYst Krock: If you can remember your password, it's an insecure password.
16:36 Fixer not really
16:36 AlexYst Calinou: We already have that.
16:36 Fixer some people remember Windows 98SE 16 digit long registration serial, everything is possible
16:36 Krock no, this means you have a leaky builtin memory
16:37 Krock friend of mine uses a 34 character long password, including special characters. I still wonder how he remembers that
16:37 AlexYst Fixer: You shouldn't be reusing passwords or be using easy to guess passwords, so yes, really. Too many difficult passwords are hard to keep track of.
16:37 Krock it's also a pain to login for him each time but whatever, not my password :3
16:38 AlexYst I use 25-character randomised strings, myself. I don't have to remember any of them, I store them in an encrypted password database.
16:38 Krock https://www.xkcd.com/936/
16:39 AlexYst Password length and characters are adjusted based on requirements, too. SOme sites disallow non-alphanumerics or disallow long passwords, which is annoying, but doable.
16:39 davisonio Use a password manager
16:39 DS-minetest what is Web chat?
16:40 AlexYst If that's the correct horse battery staple thing, that doesn't work when you have a hundred different passwords; password reuse is dangerous.
16:40 AlexYst davisonio: I do.
16:40 Krock davisonio, and secure that one with another password. great.
16:40 AlexYst DS-minetest: Web chat is like Web mail; it's a bridge that lets you reach IRC via a Web browser instead of an IRC client.
16:40 Krock I'm using Firefox as a password manager
16:40 * Krock waits for commments
16:41 Fixer also, use backups
16:41 davisonio Better to use unique password in a password manager
16:41 Fixer external backups
16:41 davisonio wtf krock are those even encrypted?
16:41 AlexYst Krock: That works, as long as you don't need non-Web passwords.
16:41 Krock dunno
16:41 davisonio If you use backups you're better than the NHS
16:41 Fixer remember this SMBv1 bug with ransomware? Imagine it encrypting your encrypted password, you will be fuuuuuuuuuucked
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16:41 AlexYst Though it's not encrypted, so if your computer is tampered with ...
16:42 davisonio I Store my passport, drivers license bank cards pretty much everything in my password vault
16:42 AlexYst Yeah, same here.
16:42 AlexYst I even have some physical lock combos in there.
16:43 AlexYst (Combos for physical locks, not the physical combos of locks.)
16:43 davisonio Good stuff, I have 226 online logins - people seem to think that's a lot
16:43 AlexYst I'm not sure how many I have, but I have a lot of accounts I use only rarely.
16:43 davisonio So about 260 overall passwords - pretty much all unique
16:44 davisonio Yeah trouble is many services don't allow account deletion - so I have many ones there I don't use
16:45 AlexYst Oh, and then there's those stupid "security" questions that actually make your accounts *easier* to break into by people that know you a little. I randomise and store answers to those as well.
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17:53 DS-minetest hm
17:53 DS-minetest !seen OldCoder
17:53 MinetestBot DS-minetest: oldcoder was last seen at 2017-04-26 01:16:18 UTC on #minetest
17:54 red-002 I guess he knowns what will happen if he tries something here
17:56 * DS-minetest just reads some logs to understand better
18:00 DS-minetest it's not always bad to give someone what he wants :P
18:01 * red-002 goes off to feed some trolls
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18:22 calculon nore, just in case, i'm not a bot, i'm only a random player and curious about minetest development :)
18:25 nore calculon: my bad then :) It's just that I discovered https://github.com/c-cube/calculon a few days ago ^^
18:26 calculon haha, interesting, but it's not mine :)
18:29 Krock calculon, you are now a bot.
18:29 Krock *writing flash*
18:29 Krock *succeed*
18:30 calculon ok, let's pretend i'm a cool bot
18:30 Krock yes, you are a cool one :)
18:43 * Calinou opens Minetest to see some servers in the list
18:43 Calinou haven't done that for a while
18:44 Calinou hmm, can you search for player names using the search? that'd be nice
18:44 Calinou I don't think you can
18:45 Calinou I still like how Minetest has a public server list, it's really convenient
18:45 Calinou Minecraft misses that, but unfortunately they never really were able to do it due to the sheer amount of players
18:45 Calinou I guess there could be themed server lists one could opt into, or something
18:46 Calinou to keep the amount of servers displayed human
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19:05 Calinou https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=10&amp;t=11165
19:05 Calinou tried out this server today, it's still running :D
19:05 Calinou looks like this, https://lut.im/y13ars2WmF/1lJIpS7pZ40S6IOE.png - https://lut.im/7itr5Kt0af/DvNKtkrVTP4jkcjo.png - https://lut.im/alSE4cIrym/Jm6nO2ufgJXB69bK.png
19:05 Calinou so, a bit broken, but it might always have been like that, also it's pretty laggy
19:05 Yst Yeah, I love our server list. It was kind of nice when we first added it, but now it feels almost crucial. Like, how else would we find servers? Check the forum? That takes too much time.
19:06 Calinou there never really were much (if any) players on that server, but I spent a few hours on it like 2.5 years ago
19:06 Calinou yeah, I remember the Minecraft era where you had to scoure for servers
19:06 Calinou Minecraft Forums, that is
19:06 Calinou and the usual "hi can you whitelist me pls i wont greif"
19:06 Calinou :')
19:07 Yst I don't know about Minecraft, I was never really a player, but I remember when I first started with Minetest. It took a while to find a server that allowed new players to build.
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19:08 Yst I ended up on glomie's server. Good old glomie's. I miss that place.
19:08 Calinou I think I remember that one
19:08 Calinou the first servers I tried, back in July 2011, were celeron55' and Kray's
19:08 Calinou I played on Kray's for a full month with someone who worked on a game engine, in August 2011
19:09 Calinou this is when I signed up on Minetest forums, and started getting involved with the community
19:09 Calinou we built a castle with many things, "Nyanland"
19:09 Calinou we also rebuilt it on the now-defunct Gameboom server, which was set up in September 2011
19:10 Yst Ha ha. I signed up to try to figure out how to get the servers to work. I was on version 0.3.{something} and none of the servers worked. Turned out the Minetest version in my system repository was too old. Later, I tried to actually join the community and found I already had an account.
19:11 Calinou heh, I never bothered with distro Minetest packages, although I did use a PPA at a time
19:11 Calinou distro game packages are usually too old to be usable anyway
19:11 Yst I had a system failure though and lost my password. Had to create a new account. I'm much more careful with my passwords now.
19:11 Calinou with rare exceptions (games no longer being maintained, rolling-release distros sometimes)
19:11 Yst The distro package was how I even *discovered* Minetest.
19:12 Yst I mean, these days, I compile Minetest, but I needed to find the game first.
19:12 Calinou I discovered it because someone posted it in a Sauerbraten clan forum
19:12 Calinou he was like "minetest is better! no Java!" so I compiled it on 2011-07-06 around 11AM (I remember the exact day and time for some reason)
19:13 Calinou I looked at the site – it definitely looked sketchy, the celeron.55.lt domain, the meh-tier site design…
19:13 Calinou but I still gave it a try
19:13 Calinou I found it very incomplete, so I didn't play it much really, it was not really enjoyable back then
19:13 Calinou I found an oerkki once and was very scared, though
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19:14 Yst Those dungeon masters were a pain. I tend to build in the ground, and they'd wreck my stuff.
19:16 Calinou yeah, DMs griefed all the things
19:16 Calinou I remember celeron55's server (again) in late 2011, which introduced the dungeon master
19:16 Calinou (sorry for the pings :P)
19:16 Yst Pings?
19:16 Yst OH! Got it.
19:16 Yst Never mind.
19:17 Calinou I released my first mod on 2011-12-03, and it quickly became one of the most popular mods
19:17 Calinou at a time, you could search "more blocks" on Google and it was the 3rd result
19:18 Yst I don't even remember when mine was. It was a glomie=protection knock-off though. Glomie's protection nodes depended on a mod I didn't use, so I reused their code, removed the lower limit, and changed the recipe and textures.
19:19 Yst More blocks was one of the cool things on Glomie's server. I loved the glow glass, especially!
19:19 Calinou More Blocks has 191,192 views, More Ores 174,744, Map Tools 41,910
19:19 Calinou Carbone NG 31,019, Bedrock 18,088
19:20 Yst I kind of wonder how long More Ores will last before bing fully incorporated into Minetest Game. We keep taking more of that mod's ores.
19:20 DS-minetest the hydro mod was also nice on glomie(=globis) server
19:21 Yst Oh, yeah, I loved the rose bushes from that.
19:21 Calinou I think there will be only Mithril in More Ores now, once I add aliases for the new ores (in case it is defined, to keep compatibility with stable Minetest)
19:21 DS-minetest yep, i don't see a problem
19:21 DS-minetest in that
19:21 Calinou well, it'd be More Ore then
19:21 Calinou not More Ores :)
19:21 Yst I wasn't really into the food part, but I had an underwater rose garden for growing roses for my checkered rose tower.
19:21 DS-minetest (btw hydro is not dead, it's forked)
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19:22 Yst More Ores will now be "More Ore" (singular)!
19:22 Yst Oh, I was too late.
19:22 Yst Ha ha, my bad.
19:22 DS-minetest or One More Ore
19:22 Calinou hahaha
19:22 Calinou someone gravedug a topic
19:22 Calinou https://forum.minetest.net​/viewtopic.php?p=930#p930
19:22 Calinou this is one of my first posts on the forum probably
19:22 Calinou I didn't know [b] was a thing apparently back then
19:23 Calinou (also, the comment is not relevant anymore, but was back then: fullscreen games were a total mess on Linux)
19:23 Calinou (some still are today, but you can use borderless windows using most window managers, like KDE or Xfce)
19:23 Calinou (if the game is marked as resizable)
19:24 DS-minetest mhm, replies without headers
19:24 Calinou that's due to originating from the old PunBB-based forum, which does not have reply titles
19:25 Calinou (reply titles hardly make any sense anyway, almost nobody changes the default)
19:25 Yst I'm not really a fan of fullscreen things. It's not that they don't work well enough (they might or might not, I don't use them enough to remember), but I like to be able to switch workspaces and see the clock on the panel.
19:25 Calinou games can feature clocks anyway
19:25 Calinou Minetest does not have such a thing, perhaps I should add it
19:25 Calinou like, wall_clock = 1 to enable, default would be HH:MM:SS, but you could tweak the format to be 12 hours, or not show seconds…
19:25 Calinou you could even show date perhaps, useful for screenshots
19:25 Calinou I think the bottom-right corner would be ideal for this
19:25 Calinou what do you think? I should make an issue
19:25 Yst Yeah, but Minetest doesn't. And I'm not sure why games need it when the system clock is already available.
19:26 Calinou (it's important enough to be in the default game, so you can use it on all servers, IMO)
19:26 Yst On screenshots, that'd be pretty cool at least.
19:26 Calinou well, I explained it, fullscreen
19:26 DS-minetest hm, perhaps that could be done with csm
19:26 Calinou screenshots too
19:26 Calinou DS-minetest: surely
19:26 Calinou but having it in-engine will be more convenient
19:26 Calinou it's already in Xonotic and Sauerbraten for example
19:26 DS-minetest but huds aren't yet added >_<
19:26 celeron55 i've only seen in-game real clocks in an MMORPG or something
19:27 Calinou yeah, I guess they're mostly in MMOs
19:27 Calinou but Minetest can be a MMO :^)
19:27 Yst They do seem like a strage thing to have in a game.
19:27 Calinou (multiplayer Minecraft-style games can get pretty MMO-y)
19:29 Yst You mean Minetest-style?
19:30 * Yst claims Minecraft is a popular Minetest-like game
19:31 Calinou that's a way to see it :)
19:33 DS-minetest +
19:34 Calinou off for dinner now, bye
19:35 Yst See you later!
19:36 DS-minetest bye
19:39 Yst I'm working on a mod that detects when minerals are dug and records them, keeping stats for each player. However, there's a lot of false positives. Currently, the mod detects a node as a mineral if it drops only one item and that item isn't itself. That makes it think dirt with grass is a mineral though, as well as tree leaves, common stone, and grass of any length besides one. Any ideas how to narrow down
19:39 Yst what it thinks is a mineral? I just want it to detect coral and ores, but without a blacklist or whitelist. That way it detects, for example, ores from more ores.
19:40 Yst I'd love to factor in renewability, though I'm not sure how to detect that.
19:41 DS-minetest mhm, an ore group should be added
19:42 Yst That doesn't sound like something I can add from my end without a black/white list though.
19:42 Yst Also, I doubt such a group would include coral.
19:42 DS-minetest but i mean generally by minetest_game
19:42 DS-minetest eg
19:42 DS-minetest not by ur mod
19:42 Yst Oh, and gravel. I can't forget gravel.
19:42 DS-minetest but FOR mods like your mod
19:43 Yst Ah, I see. Maybe.
19:43 Yst It couldn't hurt.
19:44 DS-minetest a PR should be made directly, an issue wouldn't work that good i think
19:44 DS-minetest because issues make more work for other people and PR mostly for the PR maker
19:45 DS-minetest perhaps i'll try that somewhen
19:45 DS-minetest but not today anymore
19:45 DS-minetest bye
19:45 Yst I can write ip up if I can find a use case for it; a justification for why it should be pulled.
19:46 Yst Oops, too late.
19:53 Yst Huh. If I give up on gravel/flint being a mineral, I could use the cracky digging group as a flag to help with false positives. It'd rule out all false positives besides stone and desert stone, I think.
19:55 Yst Or I could check to see if what it drops is a node, though that'd incorrectly rule out coral.
19:55 Yst Maybe I shouldn't use coral as a mineral stat anyway though ...
20:02 Yst Huh. Doors still count as a mineral by this definition.
20:03 Yst Maybe I need to check for an on_place as well.
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20:11 Yst If I check for an on_place, it rules out coal for some reason. I bet the meta table makes it so all items have an on_place.
20:14 Calinou doors are minerals, really
20:15 Calinou kids and griefers mine doors all the time, and sell them on the black market
20:15 fireglow powered door, the new booming recreational drug
20:15 fireglow powdered, too
20:21 Yst Stone's a mineral too, but it's not what I'm looking for.
20:21 Yst Specifically, I'm looking for the nodes generated by mapgen that can only be dug a limited number of times. No crafting more, no renewability, and no placing the nodes you just dug to dig them again.
20:22 * Yst runs the next experiment
20:24 Fixer Yst: you very probably offended some geologists
20:24 Fixer %)
20:25 Yst Fixer: Do geologist not think that stone is made from minerals or something?
20:31 Yst That took longer than it should've due to a semantic error, but I think I've got it working now, at the cost of not being able to call coral a mineral node any more.
20:32 Yst if #drops == 1 and drops[1] ~= nodename and minetest.registered_items[drops[1]] and minetest.registered_items[drops[1]].type == "craft" and minetest.registered_items[drops[1]].on_place == minetest.craftitemdef_default.on_place then
20:33 Fixer "a solid aggregate of one or more minerals or mineraloids"
20:38 Yst So how did I offend geologists then? I'm confused.
20:39 Fixer Yst: nevermind, continue on
20:42 Yst Now I just need a way to include coral without any black/white lists. That's the tricky part, I think. I mean, what measurably sets coral/dead coral apart from stone/cobble, gameplay wise?
20:45 Yst Maybe I should leave well enough alone and call this a victory.
20:45 Yst Coral's a bit rare, so maybe it's best to leave it out.
20:46 Yst Not to mention it was a stretch to deal with nine default minerals, and now I've got ten to work with. Dropping the two corals puts me back at eight, a perfect base number.
20:49 Yst It kind of feels like leaving the corals out puts me at an unfair advantage though. With them included, both surface and underground exploration are needed for high stats, but I spend all my time underground. Surface-dwellers stand no chance.
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21:17 Fixer spammer: https://forum.minetest.net/memberli​st.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=21179
21:24 red-002 that was fast
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