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IRC log for #minetest, 2017-03-15

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Time Nick Message
00:05 GunshipPenguin joined #minetest
00:14 Baffy[m] does the map get larger from just flying around, or only when you edit something?
00:18 XtremeHacker Hi swift110
00:24 swift110 hey XtremeHacker how are you?
00:26 XtremeHacker Good
00:27 XtremeHacker Working on...
00:27 XtremeHacker !mod microexpansion
00:27 MinetestBot XtremeHacker: MicroExpansion [microexpansion] by octacian - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=15955
01:09 swift110 good XtremeHacker how often do you play minetest?
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02:03 GreenDimond Question for anyone willing to answer:
02:04 GreenDimond I am defining an inventory, and have done so successfuly, but when defining the chest inventory, the slots are overlayed with gray squares, and there is a semitransparent rectangle behind the inventory. How do I get rid of those squares and rectangle?
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04:01 pgimeno the wiki says the waterlily is renewable - how?
04:04 pgimeno I've never seen one grow
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04:09 Taose It probably spawns like normal flowers around the area
04:09 Taose where they're allowed to grow.
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04:45 pgimeno I may be missing something, but I see nothing in the code to grow waterlilies
04:50 Taose Flowers don't grow either
04:50 Taose yet they spawn lots of them if you plant one somewhere else.
04:51 Taose They're not a crop like wheat or cotton plants so they don't "grow"
04:51 Taose They just...multiply.
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05:46 botch Hello from Texas!
05:47 botch ...anyone there?
05:50 swift110-phone im here
05:51 botch ....swift...are you one of the developers?  I seem to remember a 'swift' somewhere in the minetest forums
05:52 swift110-phone i. n
05:52 swift110-phone im just a playwr
05:52 botch okay, just wondering.  Thank you :)
05:54 swift110-phone sire a
05:54 botch ...it was PilzAdam that I was thinking of...sorry about that
05:54 swift110-phone sure
05:54 swift110-phone no
05:54 swift110-phone no problem
06:00 botch Okay, just stopping by, see you all on the flip side :)
06:02 swift110-phone ok
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06:14 swift110-phone Cool
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07:07 MinetestBot [git] sofar -> minetest/minetest: Fix two nul deref if digging unknown nodes. (#5398) b539985 https://git.io/vyMPt (2017-03-15T07:04:53Z)
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07:38 Nyarg I heard MT convert nodes in game to meshes is it right ?
07:43 VanessaE some node types yes
07:43 VanessaE nodeboxes mostly.
07:47 Nyarg I double each ground node with simple plate formed entity and FPS falls from 18 to 8 (
07:47 Nyarg my dream ruined
07:48 VanessaE what were you trying to accomplish exactly?
07:49 Nyarg shadows )
07:49 VanessaE you'd be much better off doing that with GPU shaders or something
07:51 Nyarg my laptop isnt hi performance ) http://i1.imageban.ru/out/2017/03/15/​bb871921e85c81c97959cfa37b7ef2f8.jpg
07:51 VanessaE ew
07:51 VanessaE definitely not the right use of entities
07:52 Nyarg but I see not any way to do shadows (
07:54 VanessaE use a GPU shader, like I said
07:54 VanessaE that's the sort of thing they're meant for
07:55 Nyarg do you mean shader material in Blender ?
07:57 VanessaE I mean OpenGL "glsl" shaders on your video card.
07:58 Nyarg thanks I will )
08:02 Taose 18 to 8... my smartphone has a better frame rate than that...
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08:07 Nyarg ooops I found something wrong. may be here is problem  http://i6.imageban.ru/out/2017/03/15/​46d5748cc8917f5ae9bd960637fd1c71.jpg
08:14 VanessaE nope.
08:14 VanessaE again, don't use entities.
08:14 VanessaE they are entirely unsuitable for your project.
08:16 Milan[m]1 ty for fixing so fast @freenode_VanessaE:matrix.org
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08:25 VanessaE Milan[m]1: no prob.  Also, please just wrote "VanessaE", not "@freenode_VanessaE:matrix.org"
08:26 VanessaE (you don't need anything more than the person's name to get their attention, usually)
08:27 VanessaE write*
08:29 An0n3m0us joined #minetest
08:29 Milan[m]1 oh i use autocomplete, i thought the bridge converts it correctly as some other matrix bridges do - sry
08:29 red-001 joined #minetest
08:29 VanessaE get a better IRC client ;)
08:30 An0n3m0us eg. irssi
08:30 An0n3m0us or hexchat
08:30 VanessaE hexchat or bust :P
08:30 An0n3m0us or xchat
08:30 An0n3m0us or pidgin
08:30 An0n3m0us or empathy
08:31 An0n3m0us +more
08:31 Milan[m]1 no sorry, i'll stay using matrix (it is not irc)
08:31 VanessaE this is IRC, Milan.
08:32 Milan[m]1 since when is the matrix protokol the irc protocol?
08:32 VanessaE since you're using some bridge or something, but this is definitely IRC.
08:33 Milan[m]1 ya but i don't see why i should use a dedicated irc client when i can have a bridge in matrix...
08:33 * VanessaE shrugs
08:33 ruskie then configure whatever it is you're using to do it properly
08:33 VanessaE because that's how it's been done for decades :)
08:34 Milan[m]1 we could change the recommendation to "welcome to 2017, leave IRC, get Matrix!" :D
08:34 VanessaE seems to me this matrix thing is the one that needs replaced :)
08:34 ruskie or how about stop plugging something that gets rehashed every few years yet irc is still here
08:34 red-001 welcome to 20xx, leave Matrix, get <new_thing>
08:35 red-001 does matrix force you to have a nick ending in [m]?
08:36 Milan[m]1 it is a puppet user on the irc side from the bridge. so ya - unless i host my own bridge and change it, it'll stay [m]
08:36 An0n3m0us joined #minetest
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08:38 red-001 well I guess my bouncer does a similar thing
08:38 Milan[m]1 hmm odd, some of you folks are displayed here correctly and the mention would work
08:38 red-001 forces me to use it's cloak
08:39 * Milan[m]1 still wonders how to do something like this: https://img.tchncs.de/inline/techeth_usplit.png
08:39 red-001 does matrix also work like a bouncer?
08:39 red-001 as in it's always connected?
08:40 Milan[m]1 dunno about bouncers
08:42 Milan[m]1 red-001, https://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#wha​t-is-the-difference-between-matrix-and-irc
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08:43 VanessaE usability FAIl
08:43 VanessaE hey, idiots!  grey on white is HARD TO READ.
08:44 Milan[m]1 not grey to white for me...
08:44 VanessaE *closes page*
08:44 red-001 whats grey on white?
08:44 Milan[m]1 i am so sorry - talking against your holy irc...
08:45 red-001 it just seems pointless to use matrix to connect to irc
08:45 * Milan[m]1 things #666 is nice to read on white
08:45 red-001 when you are trying to replace irc
08:45 Milan[m]1 i don't try to replace irc
08:45 Milan[m]1 in fact i try to replace xmpp
08:46 red-001 plus I don't really mind irc being text only
08:46 Milan[m]1 but it makes way less sense to ignore #minetest and make an own not connected matrix channel, huh?
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08:46 red-001 No multiple-device support????
08:47 red-001 I'm pretty sure you can get irc on almost any system
08:47 Milan[m]1 multidevice i think they meen sync between two devices
08:47 red-001 oh
08:47 Milan[m]1 *mean
08:48 red-001 well I don't really care about that
08:48 red-001 if you are using a bouncer it's not an issue
08:49 VanessaE znc + hexchat or gtfo :)
08:49 VanessaE us old farts like our old tools. :)
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10:15 JamesTait Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Absolutely Incredible Kid Day! 😃
10:19 Milan[m]1 huhu
10:20 Milan[m]1 ...i wonder how i could add vertical laying trunks to the world without biome_lib and with avoiding them flying around...
10:20 Milan[m]1 ..and without an abm
10:25 Milan[m]1 uh? i have seen a commit about silver sandstone but it is not in mapgen.lua?
10:26 Milan[m]1 (the node is there)
10:27 An0n3m0us joined #minetest
10:28 Milan[m]1 come on git ... i wanna do some merges.. `Empfange Objekte:  69% (394/566), 1.71 MiB | 16.00 KiB/s`
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11:34 agaran hello
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12:05 Milan[m]1 buuuuhuhuhu wrote an answer to a thread again and was redirected to login 😭
12:06 Milan[m]1 i mean i wouldn't mind if it wouldn't dismiss what i wrote -.-
12:07 * Milan[m]1 uploaded an image: 2017-03-15-124900_1920x1200_scrot.png (235KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/tchncs.de/fZtmbvmtSMxDbwpXBdXMMtsM
12:07 Milan[m]1 oh wrong screenshot
12:07 * Milan[m]1 uploaded an image: 2017-03-15-130144_1920x1200_scrot.png (27KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/tchncs.de/XTSHWGCnSGydRLMxaJmjfTkj
12:08 Milan[m]1 but i am surprised that phpbb doesn't redirect to the / page in that case
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12:31 yusf[m] I'm surprised phpBB is still in use…
12:34 Milan[m]1 afaik they where afraid of migrating bbcode to discourse but i told - i guess paramat(?) that this shouldn't be a problem - so let's see what happens :3
12:34 nowhereman joined #minetest
12:35 red-001 I say it's more of a case of no one seeing the need to do so/ having the time
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12:52 Milan[m]1 if it would be the second case i would help out but i guess i am not "known" enough so i wouldn't get the access - which totally makes sense, i wouldn't let it do a stranger as well.
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12:53 Milan[m]1 but at least i converted a vanilla forum to discourse already - worked nice :3
12:53 riff-IRC left #minetest
12:57 sfan5 we're migrating to discourse
12:57 sfan5 who said that?
12:59 Milan[m]1 oh i wasn't talking to paramat, it was Calinou...
12:59 Milan[m]1 > Discourse is the new cool thing anyway, but we can't really migrate to any other forum system now
13:00 Milan[m]1 yesterday 11:21 german time
13:04 Milan[m]1 oh and yeah - i think at least sfan5 is the one who don't see a need.
13:08 Milan[m]1 whoa luacaves can become very ressource heavy
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13:09 Milan[m]1 (altered duane's funcaves a bit)
13:09 Milan[m]1 oh? minetest is dead
13:12 red-001 oom error?
13:14 Milan[m]1 i guess...it happened with lacunarity = 0.4 (default 2) - i am right now with 1. however - i would prefer having them only modifying the original caves only from a specific depth but this appears to be not really possible as the mod is designed to replace... so i was able to muve decoration and everything deeper but the cave formations are still touched by the mod
13:14 Milan[m]1 this is a bit sad
13:15 Taose Any system that relies on ongoing generation can quickly become unwieldy. This is present mostly in mods of other Voxel world games (reinforced by the language the game itself is coded in) but yeah, cave generation will get intense on low-end machines.
13:16 Milan[m]1 nah it is far away from being low-end - maybe it was just a value minetest was unable to handle or something
13:17 Taose What graphics card do you have?
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13:17 Taose (in general, any cave generation on Minetest on high end machines should not affect resources at all. They certainly never have done for me)
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13:23 Milan[m]1 it is a GeForce GTX 760 ...
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13:25 * Milan[m]1 uploaded an image: cg.jpg (57KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/tchncs.de/ptLuUrgWbweICssybbrgHxaT
13:25 Taose You shouldn't be getting any resources issues with that card at all
13:25 Milan[m]1 this is the current value - it works quite well
13:26 Milan[m]1 my main problem is still this goal: https://img.tchncs.de/inline/techeth_usplit.png :(
13:30 Taose Don't you just hate it when those dungeons show up screwing up your plans?
13:31 agaran no :)
13:32 Milan[m]1 well - it is the only blocker left for the closedbeta of my new server >_>
13:34 agaran Milan[m]1: you always can write custom mapgen that uses one mapgen params for certain y range, different for next different for next..
13:34 agaran or you can do that in lua..
13:37 Milan[m]1 i am sure i could - but this is a bit tricky since i am lacking a bit programming experience at least for c. Handeling the code from duane is already quite hard for me...i give my best to learn and so on but yeah - this is kinda a level higher then i am right now
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13:39 Milan[m]1 i hope i was able to explain my self good enough... also still need to improve my english :S
13:42 agaran I think I understood so all fine. You can try make mapgen in lua too, technic does that for some of its stuff, but it may be complex too
13:44 Milan[m]1 i would prefer to no write it from scratch - duane's funcaves are already neat but they are replacing the default caves and are just everywhere under the ground. I was able to alter them to be less close to each other but i don't want them replace the default caves until Y=x ...
13:45 agaran so make check on duane's code entrance if y is less than or more than value, return
13:45 agaran that will not modify
13:45 agaran can you show link to code?
13:48 Milan[m]1 https://github.com/duane-r/fun​_caves/blob/master/cavegen.lua
13:48 Milan[m]1 maybe not only this lua file
13:52 agaran in this file, line 16, you have check for certain parameters. minp/maxp show you corners of region that get supplied to mapgen callback, if you check minp.y and maxp.y accordingly, returnin if nothing to do, then you won't trigger genration at all
13:54 Milan[m]1 uh... i was playing with line 21/22 and just got very odd results...
13:55 agaran no..
13:56 Milan[m]1 i am not sure if i understand how line 16 is supposed to look like...
13:56 agaran add in line 19 minetest.debug("BOOO " .. minp.y .. " => " .. maxp.y)
13:56 agaran then rerun and look in log when you trigger mapgen
13:57 XeonSquared It's happening!
13:57 XeonSquared Minetest is loading on the Pentium II box!
13:57 Taose O.o
13:57 Taose Well it should.
13:58 Taose It should run on a PentI...
13:58 Taose (just about)
13:58 XeonSquared FPS=0
13:58 Taose Depends on your graphics card.
13:58 XeonSquared Well, it'd be worse if I were still using the Voodoo 3
13:58 Taose >.>
13:58 Taose You actually have one of those?
13:58 XeonSquared The FX5500 can do OpenArena fine but apparently not Minetest.
13:58 XeonSquared I also have a Banshee 16M
13:59 XeonSquared Oooh, 1FPS!
13:59 agaran XeonSquared: I know one who has voodoo 2, voodoo 3..
13:59 * Taose remembers fondly the days of the first GeForce when Nvidia were the best.
14:01 Taose You're doing the basic test world aren't you?
14:01 Taose Not full game?
14:01 XeonSquared Full game.
14:01 XeonSquared Connected to my server.
14:01 Taose Full game would max the FX5500 easily.
14:02 XeonSquared So, I haveL GeForce FX5500, 6600GT, 8600GT, Banshee 16M, Voodoo 3 3000, FX2500, 9800GT, 9800 Pro, another 8600GT...
14:03 Taose The 6500GT should run it if I remember rightly...
14:03 Taose 6600*
14:03 XeonSquared Well sure, but that's PCI-e and the P2 only has AGP
14:04 Taose you have the wrong version -_-
14:04 Taose XD
14:04 XeonSquared well
14:04 XeonSquared it might be AGP
14:05 XeonSquared but either way it doesn't fit in the slot
14:05 XeonSquared https://i.imgur.com/npts7dt.png
14:05 Taose hm
14:05 XeonSquared I have a bit of a collection.
14:06 Taose And you can only use the highlighted ones?
14:06 XeonSquared Highlighted are GPUs
14:07 Taose Sounds like you need a converter
14:08 * XeonSquared shrugs
14:08 XeonSquared Fortunately, I have a box with both the GTX690s at the top as my actual machine
14:08 XeonSquared I'm just seeing what I can do with a Pentium II
14:08 Taose (I have no clue if they're actually available, as back then I wasn't in the computing world, I just know what I saw the techies doing XD)
14:09 Taose Run it as a server instead?
14:09 XeonSquared Well, something to change pinout of the different AGP things might be a thing
14:09 XeonSquared PCIe to AGP isn't though
14:10 Taose Headless servers don't require that much power so long as the number of users is limited.
14:10 XeonSquared Yeah, but where's the fun in that?
14:10 XeonSquared It's way more fun to cause a potential fire hazard trying to game on it
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14:13 XeonSquared Amusingly, I get OpenGL 1.4 with it.
14:13 XeonSquared My old laptop had 1.2 but could quite happily play Minetest.
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14:20 Milan[m]1 well, like -112 => -33 agaran..
14:21 Milan[m]1 but how does this help me?
14:21 agaran Milan[m]1: big chunk of map then
14:21 Milan[m]1 (sorry, currently quite distracted by people around me -.-)
14:22 agaran so you were about -1000 nodes below?
14:23 Milan[m]1 no - i was yeah .. uhm between -20 and -30?
14:23 Milan[m]1 oh actually +8
14:23 agaran right, node coords not mapblock
14:24 agaran so if you can accept that this mapgen will start to kick in below like -500 and will act only to -3500 you can add in place of that mintest debug something like
14:25 agaran local temp_y = (minp.y+maxp.y)/2
14:25 agaran if temp_y > -500 or temp_y < -3500 then return end
14:28 Milan[m]1 if i get this right it would actually match what i want from it :o
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14:29 agaran try ;)
14:31 Milan[m]1 uh but there are no caves at all now i guess :o
14:31 Milan[m]1 i mean default caves
14:32 agaran well no,
14:32 agaran this just turns off modifier from funcaves, does not affect original (or should not
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14:36 Milan[m]1 hmmm maybe i need to fly around more... doing alot of things at the same time right now
14:38 Milan[m]1 geomoria is still there
14:38 Milan[m]1 but not even dungeons 'til now
14:39 * Milan[m]1 uploaded an image: screenshot_20170315_153440.png (328KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/down​load/tchncs.de/iyEPISFynOcNjYnaTNiaPfkd
14:44 MinetestBot [git] Wayward1 -> minetest/minetest: Fix undefined references (#5400) 39fa249 https://git.io/vyDwo (2017-03-15T14:42:47Z)
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14:52 Milan[m]1 err just found a dungeon
14:55 Milan[m]1 but still no cave - but maybe i can life with this after small modifications... in any way, thank you a bunch 'til here, agaran
14:56 agaran well it -should- work, but I havent tested it
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15:05 Milan[m]1 i noticed that index = 0 in the mod - index is also called by the cavegen in core. also the mod is announced as overwriting the default caves - does this make sense? maybe it's index
15:10 Milan[m]1 or...overwritten...or... at least touched >_> https://haste.tchncs.de/raw/pigopozove
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15:16 gnu_guix Hello.
15:17 gnu_guix Is Nyan Cat free?
15:18 gnu_guix Rainbow is trivial.
15:18 gnu_guix MinetestBot: help
15:18 gnu_guix MinetestBot: HELP
15:19 gnu_guix MinetestBot: $ help
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15:33 Taose O.o
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15:39 xdev31 Hello
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16:39 ircSparky how do i get minetest to use more ram, its crashing at around 24 MB
16:39 ircSparky i have more ram than this, obviously
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17:18 PureTryOut[m]1 it should use more RAM when it needs too
17:18 PureTryOut[m]1 It's not like Java where you have to allocate a certain amount at launch of the application
17:21 ircSparky ok
17:21 ircSparky do you know how to disable luajit, it might be that
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17:23 PureTryOut[m]1 sorry I don't. I think it's a compile option
17:27 Calinou ircSparky: it's a compile-time option, not a run-time option
17:27 Calinou also, you probably don't want to disable LuaJIT, every mod will be slower
17:28 ircSparky well, its better then not running at all, as it is doing
17:28 ircSparky for heavier mods
17:29 ensonic joined #minetest
17:29 ircSparky I assume the windows download on minetest.net uses luajit. where would I find a build that dosent?
17:30 riff-IRC joined #minetest
17:35 red-001 I don't think anyone makes none jit builds
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17:35 sfan5 ircSparky: https://kitsunemimi.pw/tmp/min​etest-0.4.15-noluajit-win64.7z
17:35 sfan5 i compiled that one a while ago for Fixer
17:35 sfan5 he was having similar problems
17:35 ircSparky ah, thanks
17:38 Fixer if you want to try something new, compile newest luajit 2.1.0-git with GC64 enabled, it can crash though
17:39 sfan5 considering that he has problems with crashes that isn
17:39 sfan5 't much better
17:39 sfan5 but i guess i could try that on linux
17:40 Fixer if only someone more technical can look into GC64 part and backtraces they make (i posted this) and maybe figure out if it is minetest/luajit/etcbug
17:42 Fixer here is my luajit LJ_GC64 experiments starting from here https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/2988#issuecomment-284895068
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17:50 Wuzzy WHY was client-sided scripting added? Isn't this a serious security danger? To be honest, I'm still sceptical of the whole idea
17:51 Wuzzy especially because it leads to even more code
17:51 Wuzzy i mean lua code
17:51 Krock no, all Lua dangerous Lua functions will be limited by C++
17:52 Wuzzy what concrete use cases are even supposed to be done with this?
17:52 Krock I'm not an [air conditioner] of client-sided mods too but it seems to allow modders to use visual effects somewhen
17:53 Wuzzy couldnt many of the things done by just simply improving client prediction? hmmm
17:53 Wuzzy if its just about visual effects i am not too happy
17:53 Wuzzy because i think some client/server protocol changes might have made more sense
17:54 PureTryOut[m]1 I hope it allows mods to listen to keypresses (any keypresses, not just those few Minetest offers now)
17:55 Calinou we can't infinitely extend client prediction API
17:55 Calinou PureTryOut[m]1: hardcoded keys are evil :(
17:55 Wuzzy Yes
17:55 Krock well, it would make the gameplay much smoother on laggy servers
17:55 Calinou I don't want mods that use QWERTY keys to break on AZERTY keyboards
17:55 Calinou defining more special keys (4 is a good start) is the way to go
17:55 Wuzzy I agree 100%
17:55 Krock (or even QWERTZ keyboards)
17:55 Wuzzy forcing any particular CONCRETE key with Lua is evil
17:56 Wuzzy also, controls in minetest need first to be reworked
17:56 PureTryOut[m]1 it doesn't mean it has to be hardcoded
17:56 PureTryOut[m]1 mods could still add an entry to the keybinding menu
17:56 Wuzzy special keys like calinou suggested
17:56 Wuzzy that would be ok
17:56 Wuzzy but there can't be arbitrary many, i guess
17:56 PureTryOut[m]1 but what if I want an extra key that's not on that list of special keys?
17:57 sfan5 Fixer: where do i get the "illuna" subgame?
17:57 Wuzzy but the controls are so broken in minetest, those need to be fixed first before considering such changes
17:57 Wuzzy ok not broken, but really bad
17:57 Fixer sfan5: from Milan[m]1 %)
17:57 PureTryOut[m]1 how are they broken?
17:57 Wuzzy way too many hardcoded keys
17:57 PureTryOut[m]1 ooh
17:57 Fixer sfan5: alternatively use dreambuilder, gives OOM within 5-15 min to me
17:58 Wuzzy the controls config menu mostly dates back from 0.3.0 times
17:58 Fixer sfan5: or that code I posted
17:58 Wuzzy the only major change was that is is also available in-game
17:58 Wuzzy but the old (terrible) layout remained
17:58 Wuzzy and you cant even configure all keys with it
17:58 Milan[m]1 wait what? illuna subgame? why?
17:58 Wuzzy Why not? :D
17:58 Hijiri spam https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=5&amp;t=16995
17:58 Hijiri client mods could allow better GUI systems
17:59 Hijiri though that would also require a new GUI system
17:59 * Milan[m]1 is scratching his head
17:59 PureTryOut[m]1 I hope subgames will one day allow overwriting the menu's
17:59 sfan5 Milan[m]1: wanted to test the crashing with gc64 lua but i dont need it rn
17:59 Fixer sfan5: illuna is this basicly https://git.tchncs.de/Illuna-Minetest
17:59 Wuzzy I dislike the ideology of making mods the answer of EVERYTHING
18:00 Hijiri For GUI you probably want them to be scriptable though
18:00 PureTryOut[m]1 I do. mod ALL the things!
18:00 sfan5 Fixer: doesn't crash
18:00 Wuzzy dumb minetest, (way too) smart subgames.
18:00 sfan5 it eats all memory and then gets OOM killed
18:00 * Milan[m]1 knows nothing from a crash triggered by his subgame(s?)
18:01 Hijiri I don't think mods should be the answer to everything, but I think everything that makes sense should be moddable
18:01 Milan[m]1 *about
18:01 sfan5 Milan[m]1: it's in a non-default minetest/library configuration
18:01 sfan5 nothing to worry about
18:01 PureTryOut[m]1 I don't see why the Minetest menu's couldn't/shouldn't be done by the subgames
18:01 Fixer Milan[m]1: lua oom was triggered by using clean darkage mod with your subgame, triggers in seconds literally
18:01 Wuzzy PureTryOut[m]1: Great! Now any bad subgame can break Minetest even in its main menu. :-/
18:02 Fixer sfan5: use a = {}; for i = 1,1500000 do a[i] = table.copy(minetest.registered_nodes); end    /// should it about 2400 mb
18:02 sfan5 i did
18:02 sfan5 it eats way more
18:02 sfan5 and is then just oom killed
18:02 PureTryOut[m]1 Wuzzy: "enabling" a subgame is still a config option isn't it? even if it completely breaks, people can just revert it
18:03 Fixer sfan5: try lowering it even more o_O I have 8 gigs, 30 eats 4800, 15 - about 2400
18:03 rafalcpp PureTryOut[m]1: revert it using the not working menu?
18:03 Fixer sfan5: also, you need to actually wait for few minutes before crash
18:03 Hijiri PureTryOut[m]1: what if it breaks the config menu?
18:03 PureTryOut[m]1 it's just that I like to see quite big changes of the menu's, and I know those would never be accepted by the Minetest team. subgames would fix this
18:03 Wuzzy It is unaccepable that clicking on a subgame may make Minetest crashh.
18:03 PureTryOut[m]1 config menu? you can just open the config file
18:03 Fixer sfan5: you can just minimise it and wait for crash
18:03 sfan5 how would i wait for a crash if linux kills the process before
18:03 Hijiri PureTryOut[m]1: what about on mobile?
18:03 rafalcpp PureTryOut[m]1: why would they not accept it?
18:03 * Milan[m]1 is surprised that people are using the illuna subgame in the first place since it's not designed for this yet...
18:03 PureTryOut[m]1 Wuzzy: well then protect it so that if it causes errors, revert to the default menu
18:03 Fixer sfan5: lower mem usage to slightly more then 2gig
18:03 Hijiri You could still do it, but it's inconvenient
18:03 Fixer than*
18:04 PureTryOut[m]1 rafalcpp: ugh discussions... "because I want to recreate Minecraft as close as possible" <- flame war incoming
18:04 Wuzzy PureTryOut[m]1: limitations in the core / engine should be fixed in the core / engine, not by subgames or mods
18:04 sfan5 Fixer: even "for i = 1,1000000 do" causes it to eat too much
18:04 Wuzzy Extensions to the main menu by subgames: That's ok. Completely redefining the main menu: Not ok
18:04 PureTryOut[m]1 I think not being able to edit the menu using a subgame or mod is a limitation
18:04 Wuzzy There's not only a technical problem with that but also an usability problem
18:05 PureTryOut[m]1 I disagree :p
18:05 Wuzzy if every subgame has a completely different subgame, users have to learn a new interface for no reason
18:05 Wuzzy main menu*
18:05 PureTryOut[m]1 you could even add a config option "Allow subgames to override menu's"
18:06 Wuzzy First Minetest should just improve the main menu
18:06 sfan5 Fixer: "for i = 1,5000 do" takes 2 GB
18:06 sfan5 ah now it crashed
18:06 PureTryOut[m]1 that too
18:06 PureTryOut[m]1 right now the menu is straight up ugly :/
18:07 Fixer sfan5: make sure you compiled luajit right, 2.1.0 tree and make XCFLAGS=-DLUAJIT_ENABLE_GC64
18:07 Wuzzy celeron55 himself proposed to redo the main menu completely. so its totally NOT out of question
18:07 PureTryOut[m]1 still, I probably want my main menu to look different than however it'll look in the future. it be nice to have that option by allowing subgames or mods to edit them
18:08 Fixer my way is to consume >2GB mem and wait about 15-30 sec, it crashes for sure with error related to luajit i think
18:08 Milan[m]1 by the way, i bind the mods in my subgames in as submodules - why not just following the link of the submodule? So someone is actually playing with the illuna (master) game? Because i may should change some things if so...
18:08 Wuzzy I would not mind some changes to the look and feel
18:08 sfan5 Fixer: like i said it does crash yes
18:08 Wuzzy But I would be terribly annoyed if all widges wildly jump around just for selecting a new subgame
18:08 Wuzzy and I would probably not the only one
18:09 PureTryOut[m]1 which is why an option "Allow submenu's to override the main menu" would be good
18:09 Wuzzy no. this should not be a setting IMO
18:09 PureTryOut[m]1 which is then opt-out I guess
18:09 red-001 we don't need options for trivil stuff like that
18:09 Wuzzy because its a core decision
18:09 PureTryOut[m]1 why not?
18:10 Fixer sfan5: try gdb to see if you get the same errors as me
18:10 PureTryOut[m]1 so...?
18:10 red-001 we already have too many options
18:10 Wuzzy because its an excuse for subgames breaking the main menu
18:11 sfan5 not exactly the same, Fixer
18:11 PureTryOut[m]1 you can never have too many options :p
18:11 PureTryOut[m]1 an excuse?
18:11 Wuzzy either we HAVE subgame-defined menu, or we haven't but please not both, it would things even more complex and confusing
18:11 PureTryOut[m]1 how is it an excuse?
18:11 Fixer Wuzzy: subgames...
18:11 red-001 so many in fact we had to add a feature for searching through them
18:11 Fixer i wonder why we call it subgame
18:11 PureTryOut[m]1 "your subgame breaks my menu completely, it's unusable" "ooh just turn that option on". lol no, that would be stupid, that won't happen
18:11 red-001 Fixer, cause we are bad at naming things
18:11 Fixer subgame is probably like "Modded Minetest Game"
18:12 Wuzzy no
18:12 Milan[m]1 why should subgames be able to change the main menu except from the screenshots in the background in the first place
18:12 Fixer and game is thing not based on minetest_game %)
18:12 Fixer i'm confused
18:12 red-001 because the menu is very mt-game centric
18:12 PureTryOut[m]1 that's a stupid name as well :p "minetest_game"
18:12 Wuzzy Its Minetest Game, not minetest_game
18:12 red-001 e.g. a subgame might not have creative
18:12 PureTryOut[m]1 not that it matters
18:12 Fixer minetest - engine, minetest_game - game, now what is subgame? %)
18:12 PureTryOut[m]1 Wuzzy: aah that's better already
18:12 Wuzzy but both name are meh
18:13 Wuzzy A few years ago Minetest Game did not even have a name. Just 1000s of ad-hoc names which were semi-official
18:13 PureTryOut[m]1 my subgame doesn't have an option to disable/enable damage. it just has creative and non-creative. the UI doesn't show this right now ;)
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18:13 Wuzzy I agree, some options should be hidden for particular subgames
18:14 Wuzzy this makes sense
18:14 Wuzzy I think the way how subgame and mod settings are presented to the user must be completely redone
18:14 Wuzzy and mapgen settings, too
18:14 red-001 meh
18:15 red-001 we have bigger issues
18:15 Wuzzy thankfully we have advanced settings now
18:15 Wuzzy sorry?
18:15 red-001 like server settings being global and not per world
18:15 Wuzzy the main menu is in desperate need of improvement
18:15 PureTryOut[m]1 where are mod settings now anyway?
18:15 PureTryOut[m]1 can mods even have settings?
18:15 Wuzzy OK this is also valid
18:15 Wuzzy Yes
18:15 Wuzzy They are hidden deep in Advanced settings
18:15 Wuzzy ok not that deep
18:16 Wuzzy advanced settings → mods → [modname] → …
18:16 PureTryOut[m]1 aah can you not run multiple Minetest servers right now with different settings?
18:16 red-001 I would prefer to make settings local to worlds first
18:16 red-001 since that will require rewriting parts of the main menu
18:16 Wuzzy PureTryOut[m]1: partially. for mapgen settings: 100% yes. for everything else: Maybe?
18:16 red-001 yes you can
18:16 Wuzzy for example, you can change mapgen settings without fear. this was VERY important
18:17 red-001 you can tell minetest what file to load settings from
18:17 PureTryOut[m]1 hmm ok
18:17 Wuzzy previously, whenever you changed mapgen settings and switched worlds, the new mapgen gets still applied to the old world, thus creating a very bad mix of mapgen settings.
18:17 PureTryOut[m]1 sounds good enough to me then?
18:17 Wuzzy but now mapgen settings stick to the world and are also not changed afterwards
18:18 Wuzzy what you see in advanced settings THANKFULLY only affects new worlds
18:18 Wuzzy okay, here are some of the ideas i had for the settings organizaion
18:18 Wuzzy first, mapgen settings are extremely powerful
18:18 Wuzzy but they are still mostly unaccessible
18:18 Wuzzy if you are very smart, you know that you can change the mapgen settings in advanced settings and play around with it
18:19 Wuzzy but its still inconvenient
18:19 Wuzzy mapgen settings could be moved (or replicated) to the world creation dialog
18:20 Wuzzy because these are settings which really only have a meaning when you create a world
18:20 Wuzzy we already have mg_name and the seed in the menu. so why stop there?
18:20 Wuzzy This change would make it SUPER easy to play around with lots of crazy mapgen settings in a short time :)
18:20 red-001 wuzzy whats your option on moving server settings to world.mt?
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18:21 Wuzzy i dont know. you have to name concrete settings.
18:21 Wuzzy i can't tell you if this applies to ALL settings
18:21 Wuzzy i think time_speed has to be world-specific
18:21 red-001 all settings that the server checks
18:21 Wuzzy I'm not sure about the other settings. maybe it needs to be decided on a case-to-case basis
18:22 Wuzzy im sure its easy to make a slip-up otherwise if we move so many settings into world.mt.
18:22 red-001 well it's not really moving settings
18:22 Wuzzy i know what you mean
18:22 Wuzzy sorry
18:23 red-001 it's changing the location that the server checks for a setting file
18:23 red-001 still I see your point
18:23 sfan5 Fixer: https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/issues/2988#issuecomment-286835094
18:23 red-001 you might want some settings to be global
18:23 Wuzzy btw is it normal that a schematic decoration can be created only partially? so that non-air nodes still remain.
18:24 Wuzzy for example. i want to build a 2-block high plant with 2 different nodes
18:24 Wuzzy as a decoration
18:24 red-001 are more complex option would be to make the server check world.mt for a setting and fallback to the main settings if it can't load it
18:24 Wuzzy but the plant must not be seperated
18:24 Wuzzy often, the plant generates like it should with both nodes intact
18:25 Wuzzy but sometimes only the top node generates on top of an existing other block, which is not what i want.
18:25 Wuzzy bug or feature?
18:26 Wuzzy “are more complex option would be to make the server check world.mt for a setting and fallback to the main settings if it can't load it”. I do not have a strong opinion here.
18:28 red-001 looks like csm temporaly broke the android build
18:31 Fixer sfan5: could this help? "-DLUA_USE_ASSERT and see if you get an assertion failure." https://github.com/LuaJIT/LuaJIT​/pull/149#issuecomment-211119530
18:31 sfan5 ugh i just nuked my testing folder
18:31 sfan5 sure
18:33 Fixer this can also help? https://github.com/LuaJIT/LuaJIT​/pull/149#issuecomment-211107418
18:33 Fixer look bottom of the post for MAKE
18:33 Fixer but without DLUAJIT_ENABLE_LUA52COMPAT part I guess
18:35 Fixer probably smth like that make XCFLAGS+=-DLUAJIT_ENABLE_GC64 XCFLAGS+=-DLUAJIT_USE_GDBJIT XCFLAGS+=-DLUA_USE_ASSERT CCDEBUG=-g
18:36 red-001 btw if you have any comments/suggestions in relation to client-sided modding you can leave a comment on https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5394
18:37 Fixer red-001: is that celerons client side physics concept is related to this?
18:38 red-001 no
18:38 red-001 it could be ported
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18:41 sfan5 Fixer: nope no asserts
18:41 Fixer oh
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18:42 Fixer i guess this LJ_GC64 mode is not yet ready for minetest
18:43 sfan5 this doesn't look like mt's fault
18:44 Fixer yeah
18:45 Fixer maybe some bug in lj_gc64 itself
18:45 Fixer it is ongoing work
18:47 Fixer sfan5: hopefully people are starting to test GC64 in their projects, maybe it will get fixed eventually
18:48 swift110 hey all
18:48 Milan[m]1 looool can mods edit the map_meta? because i had and have again the nocaves flag in it! Guess that's the reason, agaran!
18:49 Milan[m]1 yeee `fun_caves/init.lua:minetest.s​et_mapgen_setting('mg_flags', "nocaves", true)`
18:49 Milan[m]1 here we go pew
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18:51 Fixer sfan5: you build luajit in linux, right?
18:52 Milan[m]1 wonderful, my lovely oversized caves are back <3
18:56 sfan5 Fixer: obviously
18:56 agaran Milan[m]1: :-) heh
18:57 Milan[m]1 thanks again agaran! :3
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19:02 agaran Milan[m]1: did that change worked in end?
19:02 Milan[m]1 yes
19:02 agaran :)
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19:34 MinetestBot [git] lhofhansl -> minetest/minetest: Use true distance for block priority. 454483f https://git.io/vyygf (2017-03-15T19:30:34Z)
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19:52 Fixer sfan5: i'm thinking about opening an issue in luajit repo, maybe it will help in some way to them or minetest
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20:48 kaeza joined #minetest
20:49 kaeza greetings
20:56 octacian_ joined #minetest
20:59 swift110 hey kaeza how are you
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21:09 MinetestBot [git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: lua_api: Document minetest.features (#5311) c05dfac https://git.io/vyyy8 (2017-03-15T21:07:19Z)
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22:05 benrob0329_ test
22:05 Benrob0329[m] hmm
22:06 Benrob0329[m] why is there an _ in my name...
22:06 agaran because 2 of you joined
22:07 benrob0329 joined #minetest
22:07 benrob0329 there
22:07 kaeza where?
22:08 benrob0329 here
22:08 swift110 hey benrob0329
22:08 benrob0329 riot is soo laggy compared to a normal irc client..
22:08 benrob0329 im watching it, and messages are a few seconds behind
22:08 benrob0329 test
22:09 benrob0329 O_O
22:09 benrob0329 irc has formatting, this i did not know
22:09 kaeza and ponies too
22:10 benrob0329 everyone can see this text :04P
22:10 agaran benrob0329: yes;)
22:10 Milan[m]1 even matrix :3
22:10 benrob0329 I just need OldCoder to give me voice on mt-project
22:11 kaeza benrob0329, are you logged in?
22:11 benrob0329 yes
22:12 red-001 joined #minetest
22:13 Milan[m]1 when will i learn to use the clipboard before sending messages in the forum...
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22:29 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Farming: Add override for default:dirt_with_rainforest_litter bd4d2df https://git.io/vyyxM (2017-03-15T22:22:21Z)
22:29 MinetestBot [git] sofar -> minetest/minetest_game: Skeleton key: Change to use left-click (tool on_use) 61d7c43 https://git.io/vyyxD (2017-03-15T22:22:21Z)
22:29 MinetestBot [git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest_game: Sapling_on_place: Restore after_place_node() calls 780f991 https://git.io/vyyxy (2017-03-15T22:18:50Z)
22:29 MinetestBot [git] sofar -> minetest/minetest_game: Sethome: Migrate sethome mod to player attributes. 1c78fd3 https://git.io/vyyxS (2017-03-15T22:18:36Z)
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22:42 Fixer benrob0329: yep, I can see it
22:45 benrob0329 joined #minetest
22:46 kaeza Fixer, ocassionally
22:47 Fixer never seen kaeza on any servers
22:47 kaeza needs lots of mods though. vanilla kind of sucks
22:47 kaeza I mostly play sp
22:47 kaeza often on VE-Survival or Hometown
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22:50 Fixer i'm on hometown too
22:53 kaeza Fixer, I don't usually go by 'kaeza' when on servers so you probably haven't seen me anywhere ;)
22:54 Fixer kaeza: oh
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