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IRC log for #minetest, 2017-03-03

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All times shown according to UTC.

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01:25 Open_Future external ip is fine (same as before) suddenly my server which I was able to connect to a week or so ago from other computers/devices over the internet keeps giving connection timed out.  Any ideas?  Firewall/router seems to be same setup...no changes.
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01:59 YellowberryHN What's going down here?
02:00 VanessaE nothing much
02:00 YellowberryHN Also, a quick question. Does the original RPi have enough processing power to run a Minetest client?
02:00 YellowberryHN Because I got bored, so I bought an RPi and i'm on irssi with it right now
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02:10 YellowberryHN VanessaE: You still working on HDX?
02:10 VanessaE yep
02:11 YellowberryHN You have mod support right?
02:11 VanessaE I try to keep it up-to-date, but I sometimes get lazy :)
02:11 Open_Future external ip is fine (same as before) suddenly my server which I was able to connect to a week or so ago from other computers/devices over the internet keeps giving connection timed out.  Any ideas?  Firewall/router seems to be same setup...no changes.
02:11 VanessaE yes.  I target Dreambuilder, but there are a number of other mods that are supported as well.  Usually I focus on the most recent versions/builds of those mods.
02:12 VanessaE Open_Future: no idea, sorry
02:12 YellowberryHN Nice.
02:12 YellowberryHN I might stop being silly and secluded and update Moontest and start working on it again
02:13 Open_Future I can connect with using lan ip on the network, but not with the nsupdate.info link
02:13 Open_Future even though it has been updated and reflects my external ip data
02:13 YellowberryHN In fact, I think I will right now.
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02:17 YellowberryHN Back
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02:20 YellowberryHN Oh...
02:20 YellowberryHN Has anyone successfully compiled Minetest on an armhf processor?
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02:21 VaultyLappy isnt that generally mobile?
02:23 YellowberryHN or a Raspberry Pi
02:23 YellowberryHN but yes
02:23 VaultyLappy https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/armhf/minetest
02:24 VaultyLappy however thhats 4.11
02:24 VaultyLappy this one is 4.12
02:24 VaultyLappy https://launchpad.net/ubuntu​/wily/armhf/minetest-server
02:26 VaultyLappy then this might help instead
02:26 VaultyLappy http://packages.ubuntu.com​/search?keywords=minetest
02:28 YellowberryHN found a version for zesty that is 0.4.15
02:28 YellowberryHN trying it
02:37 VaultyLappy or could have done sudo apt install minetest
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02:45 YellowberryHN but that is 0.3.1 which seems to be broken on armhf
03:02 YellowberryHN ugh
03:03 YellowberryHN whenever I do "sudo apt-get -f install" to fix the broken depends from manually installing .deb files, it just tries to remove them
03:03 YellowberryHN how frustrating
03:05 octacian YellowberryHN: could you possibly build it yourself?
03:05 octacian There's some really good instructions here
03:05 octacian https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3837
03:07 octacian Oh wait, I just went and read the chat history xD
03:07 octacian NVM lol
03:07 YellowberryHN yeah
03:08 YellowberryHN i've never had good luck with compiling
03:08 YellowberryHN there is always some stupid unsolvable problem and then I just give up
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03:30 YellowberryHN any aspiring modders in here?
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03:53 YellowberryHN well
03:54 YellowberryHN Minecraft Pi Edition is just a shitty backport of Pcoket Edition for Android with an added mod api
03:55 YellowberryHN not recommended
03:55 YellowberryHN but then again, it's free
03:55 XtremeHacker It's also been abandond for years
03:55 XtremeHacker You could run MT debian arm on a recent-ish pi (pi 3/2) I think
03:55 YellowberryHN do we have any mods for minetest that allow hardware control of the game?
03:56 XtremeHacker IDK,let me check
03:56 YellowberryHN I sadly have a pi 1
03:57 rdococ pi
03:57 rdococ tasty
03:57 XtremeHacker Maths is fun!
03:58 YellowberryHN ALERT! ALERT! en_GB detected!
03:58 XtremeHacker en_CA = me
03:58 YellowberryHN well then
03:59 YellowberryHN I guess us americans are outliers then
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04:13 YellowberryHN XtremeHacker: find any mods?
04:13 XtremeHacker YellowberryHN, sorry AFK, and no
04:15 YellowberryHN maybe I should take a break from programming my game and make something that can talk to hardware
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05:55 Hijiri hardware control?
05:55 Hijiri like the game controls hardware? or you use hardware to control the game?
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09:46 JamesTait Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Care Giver Appreciation Day! 😃 ❤
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12:32 CWz seems the forum spambots are back
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12:50 fireglow !mod cme
12:50 MinetestBot fireglow: Creatures MOB-Engine [cme] by BlockMen - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=8638
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12:52 fireglow RIP
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14:27 Fixer spam https://forum.minetest.net/memberli​st.php?mode=viewprofile&u=20713
14:30 fireglow Interests:Dining out
14:30 fireglow nice
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16:16 lisac octacian, I don't mind really. :D
16:16 octacian lisac: OK, here's what you're probably doing wrong
16:16 lisac also, thanks for assisting me.
16:16 octacian What function callback are you using to update the itemstack description?
16:16 octacian (e.g. on_use)
16:17 lisac on_use = on_use_stone,
16:17 octacian ok
16:17 lisac local function on_use_stone(itemstack, player, pointed_thing)
16:17 lisac I am using that already :D
16:17 octacian What you probably did, is forgot to return the itemstack or update it another way
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16:17 lisac Oh.
16:17 lisac I might have.
16:17 lisac I have to return it?
16:18 octacian Yes
16:18 rdococ ase
16:18 octacian Either do return itemstack after modifying it
16:18 octacian Or you could set the wielded item.
16:18 lisac so, just add return in front of the desc changing line
16:19 lisac return itemstack:get_meta():set_string("description", "NEW DESCRIPTION")
16:19 lisac like that?
16:19 octacian Yes.
16:19 lisac Okay, I'll try :D
16:19 octacian As long as you don't have code after the desc changing line
16:20 lisac I don't. But this won't work
16:20 lisac Same description..
16:20 octacian That is super weird.
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16:20 octacian Would you mind providing your code in pastegin or as a Gist?
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16:20 lisac Sure :D
16:21 lisac http://pastebin.com/Sj2HDV2a
16:21 lisac octacian, ^
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16:23 octacian lisac: That's a node
16:23 lisac It can't be a node?
16:23 octacian I'm pretty sure on_use doesn't apply to nodes
16:23 octacian Wait, NVM
16:24 octacian Let me make a few modifications for you to try
16:25 octacian lisac: http://pastebin.com/3qBE0kDj
16:26 lisac That works!
16:26 octacian Good.
16:26 lisac you just separated it into multiple lines?
16:26 octacian Yes
16:27 octacian There seems to be an issue sometimes with changing stuff while returning
16:27 lisac Oh, okay. Thank you for your help, once again :D
16:27 octacian set_meta() returns true, rather than the itemstack itself
16:27 octacian YW
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16:37 rafalcpp when there will be a version that automatically remembers per-server password?
16:37 rafalcpp that's really a basic thing
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16:57 lisac rafalcpp, I doubt it. Minetest encodes passwords, so it never really sends them over the network. It would be a security risk to keep them, as that would have to be done in plain text.
16:58 lisac You can probably install a password manager, though. If you can't remember your password.
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17:04 PureTryOut[m] wait, I find it hard to believe Minetest couldn't save a password securely locally
17:04 rafalcpp lisac: LOL
17:04 rafalcpp secuirty risk
17:04 rafalcpp durruuu huruuu
17:04 rafalcpp lisac: dude. that is like #1 missconception repeated by people with no idea re security
17:05 rafalcpp if someone already is in position to access your hard drive, then you generally are fucked anyway
17:05 rafalcpp anyway everyone keeps the password in damn password.txt and is just annoyed
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17:06 Gaffel Don't fuel people's ignorance by using bad practice.
17:06 rafalcpp it's not a bitcoin that you would need hardware-wallet, or brain wallet seed to be sure no one will recover your thrown away hard-drive to recover the precious password. Anyway, without full disk encryption it likelly leaked anyway e.g. in SWAP file
17:07 rafalcpp PureTryOut[m]: there is no such thing as "save securely". Your hard drive already IS secure
17:07 rafalcpp if you think your MT account is worth thousands $, then encrypt the disk, that is job for the OS
17:08 rafalcpp requiring user to manually enter a PIN like ssh or GPG or bitcoin wallet password or seed, is for very high security topics, not for computer games
17:08 PureTryOut[m] obviously it's easier for a hacker to steal your password if it's in plaintext rather than encrypted, so yeah there is such a thing as "save securely"
17:08 PureTryOut[m] steal/decypher
17:08 rafalcpp PureTryOut[m]: no, that is incorrect
17:08 rafalcpp well or not exactly:
17:09 rafalcpp PureTryOut[m]: either you then enter the PIN to unlock the password (which is almost as annoying)
17:09 rafalcpp or
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17:09 rafalcpp or you "encrypt" it and save the encryption key... well, on the disk too. which is totally pointless
17:09 Gaffel A machine that is on has the encryption/decryption key in RAM. It's equally bad to store passwords in "plain text" on an encrypted drive.
17:09 rafalcpp differene between thoes can matter for security-focused tools like SSH. not for computer game
17:09 rafalcpp *difference
17:09 PureTryOut[m] whatever, discussion aside. it would be nice for Minetest to remember the password yes
17:09 PureTryOut[m] makes it a bit more user-friendly
17:09 Gaffel Best practice applies to everything.
17:10 rafalcpp PureTryOut[m]: result of current "security" of minetest,
17:10 rafalcpp is that I set password asdfasdfasdf usually
17:10 rafalcpp because I don't want to fuck with password.txt when starting some game for a short break
17:10 Gaffel I store my passwords in an encrypted file.
17:11 rafalcpp well if I would actually care, I would store it in a file that would be on LUKS (AES) encrypted hdd. just remove the need to copy/paste it plz
17:11 Gaffel Storing it in "plain text" on an encrypted drive is still bad practice.
17:11 rafalcpp Gaffel: no
17:11 Gaffel Also, when you use encryption, the swap should also be encrypted.
17:12 rafalcpp Gaffel: full disk encryption
17:12 rafalcpp encrypting file on already encrypted disk serves generally no purpose
17:12 Gaffel A machine that is on has the encryption/descryption key stored in RAM.
17:12 Gaffel It does
17:12 rafalcpp Gaffel: what purpoe would that be
17:12 PureTryOut[m] I store my passwords using KeepassX which is always closed, except for when I need a password
17:12 PureTryOut[m] should be pretty safe
17:13 Gaffel Software that runs on your machine has read access to a lot of things.
17:13 rafalcpp you realize we are talking about some computer game password right? not a password to Steam with 5000$ in equipment on it right?
17:13 Gaffel The lockscreen is not 100% reliable either.
17:14 rafalcpp Gaffel: if you have malicious program running on same account as your MT game, it will just replace your minetest binary with one that logs the password. or keylog or anything
17:14 rafalcpp in such case you already lost
17:14 rafalcpp (not that anyone ever would do that for some free computer game)
17:14 Gaffel It's about using best practive. "Our game is free, just store it unencrypted." is what ignorant people do.
17:15 rafalcpp Gaffel: ignorant people apply wrong security where it doesn't help
17:15 Gaffel A password might be identical or similar to another password.
17:15 rafalcpp yeah using similar password is a real concern
17:15 Gaffel Don't assume that your users know how to store passwords.
17:15 rafalcpp or poeple using password fuckoff or asdf
17:15 rafalcpp which is the result of current silly "security"
17:15 Gaffel Don't assume that people use good passwords.
17:15 rafalcpp yeah
17:16 rafalcpp so what is much better?  just generate random 30 char password, store it in normal clear-text
17:16 agaran you forget that memory does not erase itself once it has been freed, app need explicitly erase it after
17:16 rafalcpp all actuall problems are then solved
17:16 Gaffel You're promoting bad security. The password should not be stored unencrypted on disk.
17:16 rafalcpp Gaffel: you yet have to prove any difference
17:17 Gaffel Prove what difference?
17:17 rafalcpp you are pomoting wrong security be using idioticly overpowered "sec" where it's not needed, causing users to do actually stupid things like password asdf or like using same pass as they use for gmail
17:17 Calinou rafalcpp: problem is, people use multiple devices and sometimes reinstall their OS without backing up the key
17:17 Calinou which is why you can't rely on systems solely relying on "something you have"
17:18 rafalcpp Calinou: there are two kinds of people
17:18 Gaffel rafalcpp, any user can use dumb passwords, even "smart" people.
17:18 rafalcpp Gaffel: which is why passwd should be generated (and saved to disk in normal clear text as sane people do)
17:19 Gaffel Yeah, storing the key on disk add the problem of forgetting it on the disk when it's erased.
17:19 Gaffel No! It's not sane to store password on disk, regardless.
17:19 rafalcpp if users think their MT (or anything other on comp) is important then they enable Full Disk Encr
17:19 rafalcpp Gaffel: it is. Get a clue
17:19 Calinou rafalcpp: you don't want your brother or your dog to log in as you just because they found the password file, too
17:19 Gaffel Full disk encryption shouldn't be assumed or recommended.
17:19 Calinou consider that many users don't use separate user accounts on their PC, even if they actually share their PC
17:20 Calinou yeah, FDE is way too fragile to be usable
17:20 rafalcpp Pidgin explained this idiotic missconception of "security" users, years ago
17:20 rafalcpp https://developer.pidgin.i​m/wiki/PlainTextPasswords
17:20 Calinou (slowness is not an issue anymore with SSDs, fragility still is)
17:20 rafalcpp Calinou: FDE is not fragile, what do you mean
17:21 rafalcpp Calinou: and if user tends to forgets his pass, he will forget his MT pass as well anyway
17:21 Calinou rafalcpp: FDE is fragile as in, it can break and leave all your data unrecoverable
17:21 Calinou there's lots of such horror stories
17:21 rafalcpp either way, MT could support both options. just add a checkbox to save it to a file or not
17:21 Gaffel I use FDE, secure boot, and still don't want software to store passwords in plain text on my disk.
17:21 Calinou it's also an issue with failing hardware
17:21 rafalcpp Calinou: it can not, if you use any sane implementation
17:22 Calinou can it handle dual booting with Windows too?
17:22 rafalcpp Gaffel: well then you're paranoid or something. Who is out to get your minetest password to steal your virtual quges? NSA? they have backdoor anyway in your BIOS and CPU
17:22 rafalcpp *cubes
17:22 Gaffel I'm not worried about NSA.
17:23 rafalcpp Calinou: yes it can
17:23 rafalcpp Gaffel: who will steal your minetest password?
17:23 Gaffel I just want the thief to get annoyed and give up
17:23 Gaffel It's not about minetest, it's about how software should store password and how they shouldn't store passwords.
17:23 rafalcpp Gaffel: if I can run programs on your computer as your user, encrypting will not help you. If I can as another user, then chmod 700 solves it.
17:24 Gaffel You're essentially saying "Minetest is free, therefore it should store passwords in plain text."
17:24 rafalcpp if I can not at all, then disk encryption solves it
17:25 rafalcpp Gaffel: even SSH does "just" this
17:25 rafalcpp stores in plaintext, plus OPTIONAL pin
17:25 Gaffel SSH?
17:25 rafalcpp you don't input your privkey from memory
17:25 rafalcpp Gaffel: yeah, ssh pubkey authentication
17:25 Gaffel My private key is encrypted.
17:26 rafalcpp Gaffel: which is optional
17:26 rafalcpp also, you lose it without backup
17:26 Gaffel Yes, because sometimes it can't be.
17:26 rafalcpp either way, we can easily support both
17:27 Gaffel We?
17:27 Gaffel Are you a Minetest developer?
17:27 rafalcpp community of minetest
17:28 rafalcpp so then, how about option to remember password
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17:42 MinetestBot kaeza: Mar-03 15:47 UTC <Jordach> IT'S WORKING
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17:42 kaeza Jordach, \o/
17:42 kaeza greetings
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17:43 VanessaE hi
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18:40 * Taose waves at VanessaE
18:41 Taose There are some people here >.>
18:41 strncpy hi
18:41 Taose (an hour later)
18:41 Taose (hi)
18:41 VanessaE hi.
18:41 Taose How are things :D
18:42 Taose Have you thought about turning down the contrast/sharpness a touch on your textures to make them more natural?
18:43 VanessaE nope. :P
18:45 Taose Dammit
18:45 Taose (Though I can see why)
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19:23 Fixer nobody is here
19:25 sfan5 誰もいない
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19:27 Out`Of`Control moreblocks has more shapes?
19:29 Fixer yes
19:30 VanessaE yep :)
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19:35 Krock indeed, nobody here
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21:05 Jordach what's this? http://i.imgur.com/9zV9GMW.png
21:05 Jordach there is no formspec
21:05 Jordach only zuul
21:08 VanessaE Jordach: a HUD image maybe
21:08 VanessaE maybe they replaced the crosshairs image itself
21:09 VanessaE an on-globalstep should be able to periodically check for a keypress
21:09 VanessaE and sneak is of course one of the keys that the get-player-controls call can return
21:09 VanessaE (or YOU did rather ;) )
21:09 VanessaE (I just realized those are your textures on the grass)
21:12 Jordach https://youtu.be/VtvGeyy3vwM
21:12 Jordach there's more magic
21:13 VanessaE you cheated!
21:13 VanessaE I never even considered the idea of an entity or whatever that is
21:13 Jordach am i?
21:13 Jordach the best answer is the simple one
21:14 Jordach what makes it special - i can animate every part of it
21:20 Jordach VanessaE, with even more trickery - i can vanish a players nametag and skin on first join so everyone can see a title
21:20 Jordach (i'm tempted to warp plays to +30k for this, as for a temp custom skybox that gets reverted to the standard one)
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22:12 Fixer Jordach: that windows xp for 10 theme is ridiculous
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22:27 kaeza everybody knows Win9X had the best visuals
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23:39 Fixer Windows 2000 classics theme is the best
23:39 Fixer everything else went to shit with fisher price crap
23:39 fireglow I loved win2k
23:40 fireglow SO much
23:40 Fixer windows 7 still has classic theme
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