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IRC log for #minetest, 2017-01-23

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:27 Fixer VanessaE: shingles_wood are probably signlike too
00:27 VanessaE raillike
00:28 VanessaE as are the asphalt and terracotta tiles
00:30 Fixer 68
00:32 Fixer 68
00:32 Fixer ok, same fps
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00:40 Fixer recompiled with newer version of this PR in 2 minutes in VM
00:47 Fixer I miss Redcrab :(
00:47 Fixer Walking on Old Coder Redcrab copy, each time amazing
00:48 Fixer if I had so much creativity in MT
00:48 Fixer moreblocks = power
00:49 Fixer also add chiesel and bits analogue in MT - nuclear power
00:51 Fixer this one is insanely badass mod in MC: https://mods.curse.com/mc-mods​/minecraft/231095-chisels-bits
00:51 Fixer imagine this in MT
00:51 Fixer so much power
00:57 OldCoder Fixer, then we shall make OldCoder clone of Redcrab even more faithful
00:57 OldCoder Is the original world gone for good now?
00:58 Fixer original world still up
00:59 Fixer good night
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01:39 Taose Does the advanced trains mod allow you to ride them?
01:40 TheReaperKing Yes
01:40 Taose Thank you for the quick response ^-^
01:41 TheReaperKing the steam engines can have two people in the engines
01:41 TheReaperKing not sure about the other ones
01:41 TheReaperKing but you can couple the cars and people can ride in them too
01:43 Taose Oh I'm a single player, so that's all cool.
01:43 Taose I just tend to build very large mine systems (well until I get killed by lava and then I go all masochist and start a new world)
01:43 Taose and walking back and hour is really tedious -_-
01:45 TheReaperKing there are train cars that you can put items in too
01:45 Taose ...
01:45 TheReaperKing rubenwardy: just wondering, if my students send each other e-mails using your email mod, is it easy for me to read the e-mails?
01:45 Taose (has been convinced)
01:45 TheReaperKing it is quite the mod and it gets updated a lot
01:46 Taose >.> don't tell 'em, they'll start encrypting their emails
01:46 TheReaperKing sometimes some of my students have trouble getting out of it but usually it isn't a problem
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02:03 Taose Do we have any uhm...weight based mods? So say for example, an elevator of some kind that's attached to a heavy item and is generally tied to a switch, but if you flip the switch the weight goes down and you go up?
02:04 Taose if you wanna go down, you place something slightly heavier on the elevator to go down?
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05:42 mr_minty wow there are a lot of people here o-o
05:48 ning3n joined #minetest
05:48 ning3n sup mr
05:48 ning3n -minty
05:48 ning3n enter spam xD
05:51 mr_minty sup
05:51 ning3n is your server open?
05:52 mr_minty not yet
05:52 mr_minty I was writing tunes in milkytracker
05:52 mr_minty I'm setting up mumble
05:52 mr_minty and murmur
05:53 ning3n yeah same
05:53 mr_minty cool
05:53 mr_minty are you hosting murmur or me?
05:54 ning3n yu
05:57 mr_minty mumble is open
05:57 ning3n whats it called
05:57 mr_minty just join by my ip
05:58 mr_minty got it?
05:58 ning3n its not working
05:59 ning3n nervermind
05:59 mr_minty im setting up my mic
05:59 ning3n kk
06:43 MinetestBot [git] juhdanad -> minetest/minetest: Add hardware node coloring. Includes: d04d8ab https://git.io/vM7FY (2017-01-23T06:27:12Z)
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07:47 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Zoom FOV: Reduce minimum zoom FOV to 7 degrees 59fdf57 https://git.io/vM7AH (2017-01-23T07:39:58Z)
07:47 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Dungeons: Support nodebox stairs wider than 1 node d413dfe https://git.io/vM7AQ (2017-01-23T07:39:50Z)
07:47 MinetestBot [git] sofar -> minetest/minetest: core: Add dir_to_yaw and yaw_to_dir helpers 7fc6719 https://git.io/vM7A7 (2017-01-23T07:38:39Z)
07:47 MinetestBot [git] sofar -> minetest/minetest: Vector: Add vector.sort(a, b): return box edges 2d7a6f2 https://git.io/vM7A5 (2017-01-23T07:38:39Z)
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10:05 JamesTait Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Handwriting Day! 😃 🖋
10:06 juli Good morning for u also :)
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10:31 juli bye
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11:56 ektor_ hi :)
12:04 VanessaE hi
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16:40 IhrFussel Hi guys
16:41 agaran Hello
16:42 IhrFussel The best way to make the chat log available to moderators is creating a website with a MOD login right?
16:42 agaran probably.. but I'd consider to remove shout privilege from most of visitors.. that will reduce need for log;)
16:44 IhrFussel Cause many things happen on my server while moderators are offline and then they see player reports but have no access to the old messages...I decided to make such a login and update the log every 5 minutes..shouldn't be too heavy
16:45 IhrFussel agaran, the problem isn't new players who spam or send other crap...it's active players who like to roleplay for example xP
16:45 agaran IhrFussel: sure I understand.. if you make page right way, it may be simply direct view of chatlog.. tho privacy issues arise
16:45 agaran oh.. well
16:47 red-001 probably  the simplest way to do it
16:47 red-001 you could also add some sort of chat replay
16:47 IhrFussel agaran, no it's a shell script with tail -n 3000 and writes it to a file in /var/www/
16:48 red-001 e.g. like some irc bouncers
16:49 IhrFussel I don't think I need to add such advanced mechanics...at least there is a way now to check older messages
16:50 IhrFussel Without accessing the machine*
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16:53 IhrFussel I'm just not sure how safe my site is...there is no SQL involved so I'm save from any injections
16:54 agaran IhrFussel: and you made sure that noone can bypass auth?
16:55 IhrFussel agaran, the auth data for each moderator is stored in a file outside of /var/www/ so that should be impossible
16:56 agaran and knowing url to logfile does not let one bypass auth?
16:56 red-001 chat history isn't super private stuff if it's on a public server
16:57 IhrFussel The only risk is maybe some code that visitors input on the login site as password
16:57 red-001 just take reasonable precautions
16:57 IhrFussel agaran, http://85.214.60.247/chath.php
16:58 red-001 as long as breaking into your server and reading the logs is a good bit harder then just making a bot to log chat I think you are good
16:59 red-001 I see you have webchat
16:59 IhrFussel Oh wait agaran is right...you can access the .txt file directly in the browser hmm
17:00 red-001 I think you should be more worried that someone could just log that
17:00 agaran IhrFussel:  :-)
17:01 red-001 is http://85.214.60.247/r.php suppose to be public?
17:02 KaadmY http://85.214.60.247/test.php
17:02 KaadmY http://85.214.60.247/login.php
17:02 IhrFussel But how do I change it so that the user "Minetest" can write to the log and www-data can read it but blocks viewing? o.o
17:03 red-001 you could make the url really hard to guess
17:03 red-001 like a long random number/string
17:03 IhrFussel r.php is public on purpose..players can check who received "Bad Points" or was kicked or need a moderator etc
17:04 agaran IhrFussel: I would do it bit different, make session which IF active then access to .php returns last N lines of chat along with some header etc.. to permit requesting older lines too, but not permitting direct access to file..
17:04 agaran but thats /me
17:05 IhrFussel agaran, but PHP cannot access /home/minetest correct?
17:05 agaran depends, this can be changed too
17:05 agaran you need only +x on dir (not even +r), and +r on file (or +r for all)
17:06 kaeza you could chmod a+r debug.txt
17:06 agaran yep
17:06 agaran and +x on minetest dir
17:06 kaeza then ln -s it somewhere
17:06 agaran you won't be able to ls there.
17:06 red-001 why not use a mod to generate a chat log for everyday?
17:07 red-001 and then have the PHP return the log for the day thats passed to it
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17:14 Taose Is it offline?
17:14 Taose ^ ignore. Bit late now.
17:21 IhrFussel I'll look into that...but my biggest concern right now is someone trying to inject code via the MOD login field...right now the code is this "if($_POST['key']!=""){ ##check for existing key and if they match set moderator session }"
17:21 IhrFussel Should I apply some security function before i process the POST data?
17:23 IhrFussel Like htmlspecialchars() or addslashes() ... I know PHP offers lots of those
17:23 red-001 probably
17:23 red-001 that looks like you could inject sql
17:23 IhrFussel Nope the site doesn't have any database
17:23 agaran that depends probably how you use that key.. but you have no SQL there, so there are smaller chances fr that
17:25 red-001 well php injection is also a thing iirc
17:25 IhrFussel I think I already made the most important step: Never process $_POST data is as, always put that data into another unknown var
17:26 IhrFussel as is*
17:28 IhrFussel I applied the 2 functions now to be on the safe side...I use PHP 7.0 so that should close most old security holes too (I hope)
17:38 IhrFussel The client-side-modding branch on github exists for years? I never noticed it and thought it's new
17:40 IhrFussel When all is done will it work like this "server mod tells client side mod what to do"?
17:40 red-001 no...
17:40 red-001 it got added a few days ago
17:41 red-001 what made you think it was there for years!!???
17:41 IhrFussel red-001, oh well then github is still confusing to me cause i selected the branch and it still listed files that were modified "years ago"
17:42 red-001 yeah most files didn't need to get modified
17:42 red-001 you can see how old it is by looking at the first commit that isn't in master
17:43 IhrFussel Oh so it lists ALL Minetest files in all branches...
17:43 red-001 branches don't need to be related to each other at all
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17:44 red-001 if you wanted you could have separate projects in diffrent brnaches
17:45 IhrFussel That sounds very complicated...I'll probably just continue to use my github account for issue reporting
17:48 IhrFussel But how are you attempting to prevent hacked clients via client side mods from cheating?
17:48 red-001 don't add functions that allow easy cheating
17:50 IhrFussel I saw that the devs already moved some calculations (lava/drowing) over to the server side...and I think since then my HUD mod is acting up cause the bubbles don't disappear when they increase
17:51 red-001 I think it's only drowing so far
17:51 red-001 drowning*
17:51 nore <IhrFussel> But how are you attempting to prevent hacked clients via client side mods from cheating? <-- client-side modding has nothing to do with it
17:51 IhrFussel Yeah I meant drowing*
17:52 IhrFussel drowning**
17:53 IhrFussel Well the term "hacked" isn't even right...we should say modified clients since all you gotta do is edit some text files
17:54 red-001 well thankfully building minetest on windows is so hard we don't get a lot of people that do this
17:55 IhrFussel But in theory it could make cheating easier UNLESS (like red-001 said) you leave some risky functions out
17:55 red-001 not really
17:55 red-001 it's a matter of not adding them not leaving them out
17:56 IhrFussel red-001, can you give an example of such a function?
17:57 red-001 well for one the function for sending chat to server was not added because it was seen as too easy to abuse
17:57 red-001 e.g. spam the server
17:58 red-001 apart from a few helper functions client-sided api is written from scratch
17:59 red-001 if functions have similar names it's mostly to make it easier for modders
17:59 kaeza sending chat with CSM could be useful for things like predefined taunts or something
18:00 red-001 true
18:00 IhrFussel Okay so server mods will be able to communicate with client mods anytime? Or is it just certain functions the server sends to the client to execute?
18:01 red-001 ultimately yes, but we having gotten to that point yet
18:01 red-001 we need to make sure it's secure first
18:01 IhrFussel red-001, so when all is done and ready you could install a client mod that communicates with a server mod?
18:02 red-001 of course
18:02 red-001 the server is suppose to send the code for the mods to the client
18:03 IhrFussel But I hope it won't be like in MC where the clients are REQUIRED to install certain mods to be able to connect to a server
18:03 red-001 like it said the server sends code to client
18:03 red-001 like textures
18:03 red-001 thats why the sandbox needs to be secure
18:04 IhrFussel Oh so the server will ignore a mod the client has if it's not "verified"?
18:04 red-001 ?
18:04 red-001 don't think thats even possible
18:04 agaran IhrFussel: I think during connection it will send client data.. and client-side things are to make some work easier, but not being 100% trusted to be not tampered with so server side verification still will be present.
18:05 red-001 ^
18:05 IhrFussel Imagine a client installs some mod...now it connects to a server that requires said mod...the server will ignore the already existing code and send it again correct?
18:05 red-001 no the client doesn't install mods
18:06 red-001 just downloads code from server on init
18:06 red-001 I mean you can modify builtin
18:06 IhrFussel That's what I wanted to know...if clients will be able to use their "own" mods on servers or not
18:06 red-001 it's most likely not going to be supported
18:07 red-001 but of course if someone adds the code to builtin it will be executed by the client
18:08 red-001 think of it this way client isn't suppose to have other mods, so if it does and something breaks for the user it's there job to fix it
18:08 red-001 their*
18:08 red-001 so DON'T trust the client
18:08 red-001 not that you should now
18:10 red-001 any more questions?
18:10 sfan5 <red-001> it's most likely not going to be supported
18:11 sfan5 why not
18:11 IhrFussel red-001, no I think I understand the implementation now
18:12 IhrFussel So the main purpose for CSM is to reduce server load?
18:12 agaran I think also to improve for example form capabilities
18:12 red-001 sfan5, I was going on what's written in http://dev.minetest.net/Client_scripting_plans
18:13 red-001 that seems to indicate that the code is suppose to be only supplied by the server
18:14 red-001 plus that could open up the door to problems with in compatible mods
18:15 IhrFussel red-001, but it will only be supported in newest client versions correct? Many users on mobile play on clone apps that are stuck at 0.4.13 or worse
18:15 red-001 yes only newest version(when it gets merged to master)
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18:16 IhrFussel So...assuming it will be ready for 0.4.16 the feature would only benefit a fraction of users first
18:16 Kurolox Hello. How do you change settings from a mod in a server? I want to enable personal area protection with areas, and reading the README.md tells me that I should change the settings in the server settings.conf, but there isn't any option regarding areas or any other mod.
18:17 red-001 thats a pretty big assumption
18:17 red-001 add the option
18:17 red-001 the readme should say what the option is called correct?
18:18 red-001 so just add a line like "mod_option = true" to the config file
18:19 IhrFussel What assumption? That it will be ready for 0.4.16? Or that only a fraction will have the newest version?
18:19 red-001 well the first one
18:19 red-001 all through there has just been a release so maybe not that big
18:20 IhrFussel The checklist looks good so far...almost 50% is completed as far as I can tell
18:21 red-001 yes but a lot of the stuff thats left is hard to do
18:21 red-001 harder*
18:22 red-001 plus thats only basic stuff
18:22 sfan5 red-001: well it just seems like it's not planned
18:22 sfan5 it doesn't need to be a bad idea though
18:22 sfan5 also could you elaborate on the incompatible mods thing?
18:23 Kurolox The readme says that the settings are in a settings.lua file. I've seen this line 'setting("boolean",  "self_protection", false)' so I've added 'self_protection = true' to the settings.conf, but it doesn't work. People don't have rights to create areas.
18:24 red-001 mods that try to do the same thing could end up interfering with each other. e.g. if one mod modifies incoming chat to change the text colour the chat wouldn't get pass to the next mod
18:24 IhrFussel Kurolox, you set that not in the minetest.conf...one sec
18:24 red-001 which could break the second mod
18:25 Kurolox If you wish to specify configuration options, such as whether players are
18:25 Kurolox allowed to protect their own areas with the `protect` command (disabled by
18:25 Kurolox default), you should check config.lua and set the appropriate settings in your server's configuration file (probably `minetest.conf`).
18:25 Kurolox That's what the README.md says
18:25 IhrFussel Kurolox, you simply edit the boolean line..make it true
18:26 IhrFussel in settings.lua
18:26 Kurolox but that would make it true for everything using the mod instead of that specific server
18:26 Kurolox I mean, I'm fine with that since I only have one world, but it doesn't feel like it should be like that
18:26 Kurolox I'll do that
18:27 IhrFussel Kurolox, if you want to have different settings for each world you should rather use worldmods folders inside the worlds instead of the global mods folder
18:27 sfan5 red-001: the same problem can happen on server-side, i don't see the problem here
18:28 red-001 sfan5, it's just that one mod could be supplied by the server and the other by the user
18:29 IhrFussel Kurolox, [Minetest folder]/worlds/[worldname]/worldmods/[putmodshere]
18:31 Kurolox Also, there's a way to set up a fixed spawn point for everyone who joins the server for the first time (or at least until they use /sethome)?
18:32 IhrFussel Kurolox, static_spawnpoint = X,Y,Z
18:32 IhrFussel in minetest.conf
18:34 sfan5 red-001: hmm that can happen indeeed, maybe assign lower priority to client provided mods?
18:34 red-001 could be an idea
18:36 IhrFussel Need to got to the store...see you later =)
18:37 Kurolox Thanks for the help!
18:38 Kurolox By the way, someone have any idea about what could be happening here? This things are scattered all arround the world. http://i.imgur.com/R9ywKx3.png
18:38 Kurolox I was told that this happens when you remove a mod, but I haven't done that yet. It happened since the world started.
18:38 red-001 huh
18:39 red-001 maybe you have a broken mod?
18:39 Kurolox I just have carbone-ng and areas
18:39 sfan5 carbone-ng is kinda outdated
18:39 Kurolox it is?
18:40 Kurolox Any recommendations for a survival server then? I'd appreciate it.
18:40 Kurolox Kinda lightweight if possible
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18:43 kaeza minetest_game?
18:44 sfan5 ^
18:45 kaeza MTG has probably all you need out of the box
18:45 sfan5 kaeza: btw how does this look https://github.com/minetest​/minetest.github.io/pull/83
18:45 Kurolox Unfortunately I'm really new to minetest and I've heard that the game is very minimal and requires mods for getting functionality. How's minetest_game?
18:45 agaran Kurolox: 'minimal' depends on point of view
18:45 red-001 minetest_games is THE default game
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18:46 agaran there are servers which when used as comparision make any game with less than 50 mods look more barren than desert..
18:46 Jousway joined #minetest
18:46 agaran but that does not mean that you can't have quite rich gameplay on server with far less than 50 mods installed
18:46 agaran it entirelly depends on your goal, and if you are new, wander a bit thru public servers..
18:46 Kurolox I'll try minetest_game then. I'd like to have mobs and some hunger system though since I want it to be a survival server. Any recommendations?
18:46 kaeza sfan5, looks good I guess
18:47 kaeza *checks full file*
18:47 red-001 mobs_redo works well in my experience
18:48 kaeza sfan5, uh, shouldn't that be "Plants &amp; Mobs"?
18:48 sfan5 right.
18:50 sfan5 kaeza: anything else?
18:50 kaeza not sure if UFOs still works
18:50 Kurolox mobs_redo seems fine. What about the hunger system? I know that carbone-ng had a stamina system but I was never able to figure out how it worked
18:50 kaeza other than that looks good
18:51 kaeza I have no experience with most of those mods anyway :P
18:51 red-001 http://krock-works.16mb.com/MTstuff/mo​dSearch.php?st=0&amp;at=0&amp;q=hunger
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18:55 kaeza Kurolox, if you intend to make the server public, I suggest xban2 and no_guests/name_restrictions
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18:55 red-001 aren't guests already removed by minetest?
18:56 kaeza are they? nice
18:56 kaeza still weeds out outdated mobine crApps
18:56 sfan5 no they aren't
18:56 kaeza mobile even
18:56 sfan5 and mobile apps use different guest names
18:56 sfan5 nowadays it's <random first name><3 to 5 numbers>
18:57 Ruslan1 I can't join xanadu server
18:57 red-001 that sounds like something generated by a user..
18:58 sfan5 no it isn't
18:58 red-001 anyway guest names are broken in current release
18:58 Ruslan1 Her
18:58 kaeza if name:match("^[xX][xX]+(.-)[xX]+[xX]$") then return "GTFO" end
18:58 Kurolox gotcha. So far I've got the base game, unified-inventory, xban2, name_restrictions, treecapitator, mobs_redo and areas. Any other recomendation that I could add? I'll probably end up adding mesecons and some construction mod too.
18:58 Kurolox Also the hunger mod.
18:58 Ruslan1 Hey
18:58 sfan5 Ruslan1: ask in the xanadu topic on the forums
18:59 red-001 worldedit
18:59 red-001 really useful for an admin
18:59 Kurolox I want to leave the world as survival mostly, so I'd rather not interact with the world besides maybe a central Hub or something like that
18:59 red-001 allows you to easily clear large areas for building etc
19:00 kaeza mt_keyword_interact could also help
19:00 Ruslan1 sfan5 I can't I have trouble with log in
19:00 red-001 what is that kaeza ?
19:00 kaeza https://github.com/ChaosWormz/mt_keyword_interact
19:01 red-001 interesting
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19:02 sfan5 Ruslan1: why can't you login into the forums?
19:03 Ruslan1 Can you find my name
19:03 kaeza signs_lib supports mt_k_i, BTW :)
19:04 kaeza so you can put the keyword in a sign somewhere in spawn
19:04 sfan5 Ruslan1: PM me your email address
19:04 sfan5 and i can search
19:04 nore ^ you could even force new players to have a recent client by doing something like keyword-interact but with node colors ;)
19:05 Ruslan1 Yes
19:05 sfan5 nore: alternatively just check the protcol version??
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19:06 nore sfan5: ... yes indeed. But is it possible to enforce that for new players only, I am wondering though?
19:06 * nore tried to overengineer something again
19:07 sfan5 you could with some lua coding
19:07 red-001 is there a command for getting protocol version of the client?
19:07 sfan5 Ruslan1: ?
19:07 red-001 I though it was only in debug builds
19:08 sfan5 it is
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19:09 Ruslan1 Yes
19:09 kaeza http://pastebin.com/QVJw577B
19:10 kaeza ^ if you want to be really anal about users reading rules :)
19:10 Ruslan1 sfan5 you found it
19:10 sfan5 Ruslan1: you haven't pmed me your mail address yet
19:11 sfan5 try /msg sfan5 <your mail>
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19:25 ektor hi :)
19:25 red-001 hi
19:26 ektor is there a solution when a /clearobjects don't remove the unknows items/nodes ?
19:27 sfan5 it should do that
19:27 sfan5 but it doesn't apply to nodes
19:28 ektor aah, ok :(
19:29 ektor so, i made a terrible error, grr
19:30 agaran ektor: well you can fix it in few ways, including some quickie mod that uses abm to replace missing nodes with other desired ones including air nodes..
19:30 ektor ok
19:31 red-001 you should use an lbm for that
19:31 ektor is there a file exemple i could read to see how to do ?
19:31 ektor ok
19:31 kaeza !mod clean
19:31 MinetestBot kaeza: Delete unknown blocks and objects [clean] by PilzAdam - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=2777
19:31 kaeza ^ try that one
19:31 agaran red-001: perhaps nicer but if abm runs and removes node.. it wont fire again
19:32 ektor ooh, thanks kaeza
19:32 kaeza sure
19:33 kaeza I kinda miss Mushroom Man :(
19:33 red-001 agaran, lnm might run faster
19:33 agaran true..
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19:35 ektor i try this, i come back later :) kisses
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20:23 agaran hmm can two commands have same name?
20:23 agaran I guess not.. so I need to implement it otherway..
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20:30 IhrFussel The game has so many settings that it's very hard to find the one you're looking for...can someone tell me where min_view_range_nodes settings can be found?
20:31 IhrFussel Cause I'm writing a guide on my site that helps players to increase their game performance
20:38 IhrFussel OMG I found it in Client > Graphics > Game > Advanced ...
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21:29 swift110 hey all
21:32 Sokomine hi
21:33 agaran so there is no inventory call that returns on which slot amount equal or greater to X of given item is present or false on failure?
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22:29 sapier https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=11&amp;t=629 Finaly there's progress on animals modpack feel free to check out the new alpha version. In singleplayer you can even try the new quest mechanisms used for tutorials.
22:32 TELESIGHT hi
22:32 red-001 hi TELESIGHT
22:34 swift110 I am about to compile 4.15
22:34 TELESIGHT hi
22:34 TELESIGHT any of you need help
22:34 swift110 TELESIGHT:  I will let you know if I need help. Hopefully I will do just fine
22:35 red-001 swift110, isn't that latest stable?
22:35 red-001 couldn't you just download?
22:36 TELESIGHT no i dont know how but it is going good so far
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22:36 TELESIGHT hi
22:43 swift110 perhaps but i want to compile this time
22:44 red-001 why not compile latest dev then?
22:44 red-001 btw what system are you on?
22:44 red-001 linux?
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22:48 swift110 linux
22:49 swift110 hooray i am done
22:52 swift110 how do i get it to show up in my menu though
22:52 red-001 edit the short cut?
22:57 Persi[m] swift110: you should be able to write a desktop file, it's trivial and it works on most desktops
23:01 swift110 how do i do that
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23:04 red-001 swift110, there is one in /misc
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23:13 garywhite Forum won't load...again...
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