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IRC log for #minetest, 2017-01-14

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 Taose Probably
00:02 Taose ...hmmm...
00:09 Taose Nope can't think of anything salvageable or a salvageable use for wood
00:11 Taose oh...hang on
00:13 Taose heh
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00:15 zorman2000 Taose: http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_​book/chapters/nodes_items_crafting.html
00:15 zorman2000 If you every get interested more in mods, rubenwardy did a very nice introduction
00:15 Taose It appears I'm well ahead of that.
00:16 zorman2000 Well, it included an example of a cooking recipe
00:17 Taose The wooden hammer is now recyclable
00:18 zorman2000 Nice
00:19 Taose It makes some sense as well, but you don't exactly get out what you put in (like with the other two hammers)
00:25 zorman2000 Making a NPC use a furnace is quite a little nightmare
00:25 Taose I can quite imagine.
00:25 Taose Though you could just fake it.
00:26 zorman2000 I could, but not want to. I want it to place items, start the furnace, wait for it, then get the cooked items
00:27 Taose and thanks for that tutorial zorman, I'll be taking a look.
00:27 zorman2000 Sure, I started with that. After that, the Lua API becomes less of a mistery
00:28 zorman2000 I didn't knew Lua either before
00:28 zorman2000 Learnt for Minetest with this, and sometimes looking on the internet
00:28 zorman2000 Quite easy if you already know a scripting language
00:28 zorman2000 Like JS
00:28 Taose Python is not a scripting language...but lots of similarities.
00:29 Taose though coming from something like C++ to lua is a bit of a brain bust
00:29 Taose "Dammit Lua, that's how you do a For loop, this is how you do a for loop"
00:29 zorman2000 Personally I don't like Python
00:30 zorman2000 Have kept far away from it
00:30 zorman2000 I'm a Java developer
00:30 Taose lmfao
00:30 Taose I hate Java >.<
00:30 zorman2000 But recently working on JS and Lua (just Minetest)
00:30 zorman2000 Well I know Java because almost all my courses at college were in Java
00:31 Taose mine were, I think that's why I hate it.
00:31 Taose I never got on with it to be fair, but that was probably more the teachers fault and seeing it as inferior when compared to the raw computing power of C.
00:32 Taose There was a claim of write once run anywhere, but then I realized that C could be compiled on just about anything...
00:32 zorman2000 At some point I always asked why Java when C or C++ is faster
00:33 zorman2000 But guess what, Java is not truly so slow in modern machines
00:33 Taose C and C++ are far more complex.
00:33 zorman2000 And is heavily used in the enterprise
00:33 zorman2000 I have never went far than C/C++ basics
00:33 Taose :p
00:33 zorman2000 I know a little but yes, far more complez
00:33 zorman2000 complex*
00:33 Taose Did you get as far as pointers?
00:33 zorman2000 Oh yeah, of course
00:33 ssieb I code in Java for work, but for my personal use I usually use Python
00:34 Taose (because they drove me up the wall)
00:34 zorman2000 Don't ask me now if I remember anything though
00:34 Taose keke
00:34 Taose Why ssieb?
00:34 ssieb why what?
00:35 Taose Why python at home why not java?
00:36 est31 issue with c is though, it has non portable APIs and build system
00:36 ssieb I really like Python, no compiling and lots of libraries included
00:37 zorman2000 est31, C is almost assembly, just a little bit better
00:37 Taose >.> really fits linux Python does.
00:37 zorman2000 But there are so many things to keep in consideration
00:37 Taose est, don't blame the language for something that isn't in its control XD
00:37 MinetestBot [git] ShadowNinja -> minetest/minetest: Organize defaultsettings.cpp 8002366 https://git.io/vMVO8 (2017-01-14T00:06:51Z)
00:37 zorman2000 I programmed microprocessors and microcontrollers in C
00:38 zorman2000 It was the only place I really liked it
00:38 ssieb I program microcontrollers in assembly :-P
00:39 Taose ^ that's hard core.
00:39 Taose C is excellent if you're doing something high level and need the speed/memory features.
00:40 zorman2000 I did so once, had to do a whole counter with a 7 segment display for a final project
00:40 Taose For everything else higher level programming languages suffice.
00:40 * ssieb recently programmed a PIC as a tic-tac-toe game for his son's electronic project
00:40 zorman2000 Enough said
00:40 zorman2000 I never got there, not want to either
00:40 zorman2000 :)
00:47 zorman2000 Taose, why Python?
00:49 Taose Mostly because I still like C, I just find it cumbersome with having to learn the pointers and referencing first. So instead of C, i want to get the basics down with Python which has so far proven faster, quick and less error prone to write.
00:50 Taose and I can still extend it with C++ if I want to.
00:50 zorman2000 I see. Well, to be honest, I just hate the syntax
00:50 zorman2000 Ugly syntax if you ask me
00:50 Taose (and ansi c is damn well outta date)
00:51 Taose Ugly syntax?
00:51 Taose I haven't seen anything majorly different to lua yet.
00:52 zorman2000 Not that I like Lua syntax a lot
00:52 zorman2000 But still I think better than Python
00:52 zorman2000 Just try to define a class in Python
00:52 * zorman2000 gets scared
00:52 Taose XD
00:54 zorman2000 Well, be back later
01:04 twoelk cool - I messed up my mapgen experiments and punched a huge hole into my map. It cut into a lake and now water is filling the hole. Not only the bottom but to the brim. If I wait long enough I guess
01:14 Taose Turns out, class definition in python pretty easily...
01:15 Taose twoelk, is it actually filling?
01:15 Taose The water doesn't behave as expected.
01:15 twoelk yep
01:15 Taose o.o
01:15 Taose Doesn't fill on mine
01:15 Taose I assume you did something?
01:17 twoelk but I guess only as far as the water nodes spawn when having neighbours at 2 nodes creating a corner
01:17 Taose o.o
01:18 twoelk I failed at merging precreated flatland into mg7
01:19 Taose lol
01:19 twoelk now I might have created an island in an cubic lake
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01:21 Taose ...you know
01:21 Taose I'm surprised at how easy it was to modify a mod for Minetest
01:21 * Taose looks at Terasology and remembers the nightmares they had
01:24 twoelk http://imgur.com/a/ylS4V
01:25 Taose yeowch
01:30 twoelk you are right, modifying mods is easy and fun
01:33 twoelk I have some subgames though that I use for some maps on private family servers. I am just updating them to mt0415 and  have quite some trouble tweaking all them mods to play well together again
01:34 twoelk for example having nyan cats in a mod of their own caused more trouble than I would have thought
01:36 twoelk we had some mods of our own that depended or used them
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01:57 octacian RAINBOWS!
01:58 Taose -_-
01:59 octacian COLOURS!
01:59 Taose O_o
01:59 octacian UNICORNS
01:59 Taose Oh how nice it is to see someone using the U.
01:59 octacian lol
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02:00 Taose I was starting to think that my teachers had been lying to me.
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03:31 kaeza UNICOURNS!
03:33 octacian HOW do you get a singlenode world?
03:34 octacian I tried setting mg_name = singlenode but it didn't work.
03:36 octacian kaeza: do you know?
03:38 kaeza try minetest.set_mapgen_setting("mgname", "singlenode", true)
03:38 octacian thanks.
04:11 paramat yes you have to select it in a mod
04:16 * VanessaE pokes paramat
04:37 twoelk you could use "The Origin"  https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=11156
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05:24 XeonSquared excellent
05:25 XeonSquared while I still get less than 30FPS in the minimal development test, it takes lots less time to load
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05:35 minetime hey guys, is there any server command to remove all unknown nodes
05:36 minetime very preferably leaving mobs intact
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05:53 minetime heh, tried clearobjects, and still have the nodes
05:53 minetime :/
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05:59 cheapie OK, this bug where the node a player is in when they join getting set to air is *really* irritating.
05:59 * cheapie looks to see if it's been reported yet
06:00 * minetime has been reading - is literally the only way to remove unknown blocks with a mod? that doesnt seem right?!
06:01 cheapie It won't let you dig them?
06:01 minetime well it will, but im going to find every single one of them and dig them :P
06:01 cheapie Oh, you mean automatically.
06:02 minetime yeah :P
06:02 cheapie It's trivial to write a mod to alias any given node (even unknown) to air.
06:03 minetime probably, but there really isnt a command to do so?
06:03 minetime seems a little odd :S
06:03 cheapie Not that I know of.
06:04 minetime Not to mention a bit unwieldy for the average user.
06:04 cheapie I should just make a mod to auto-remove them...
06:06 cheapie (if I can find a practical way to do so)
06:06 minetime heh
06:08 * minetime checks pedestals - at least clearobjects didnt delete my nyan!
06:14 cheapie Grr, looks like there's no way to make an LBM run on /all/ nodes in a mapblock, or even just on unknown nodes.
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06:15 cheapie (aside from knowing what the unknown nodes /are/)
06:23 minetime hmm that sucks
06:26 minetime so is the only solution really to alias them to air?
06:31 minetime so apparently there are a few mods around that can do it, but they all rely on world edit
06:31 minetime great :\
06:53 minetime Looks like imma start a new map then...
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09:25 cheapie The LTC-4000E cabinets are now openable: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/im​ages/screenshot_20170114_032425.png
09:35 Krock nice resolution
09:37 Krock are these two seperate meshes or one object in the front that can be opened/closed?
09:39 cheapie It's all nodeboxes, two nodes when closed and four when open.
09:40 cheapie Eight boxes total in either state.
09:40 cheapie Actually, never mind, looks like six when closed and eight when open.
09:41 cheapie Either way, few enough that learning enough to make a mesh for it would probably take more time than I'll ever save in rendering.
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10:04 agaran cheapie: they look awesome imo
10:04 cheapie Thanks!
10:05 agaran cheapie: you set bar quite high for ones who want to do more industrial-looking stuff
10:09 agaran TommyTreasure: were you able to find whats wrong deeper with that pipeworks problem?
10:11 agaran anyone is using 4.15 in 32bit build?
10:12 TommyTreasure agaran: haven't looked any further, it seems to be working fine.  have to try a teleport from the extremes to know for sure.
10:12 agaran with that patched up variant?
10:12 TommyTreasure yup, just the way we left it.
10:13 agaran it will be bad one because certain sets of x,y,z coords give same resulting number (unlike with original code)
10:13 TommyTreasure agaran: one more issue to fix with a different mod, and i'm good to go!  btw, thank again for you time.
10:14 agaran so tube at 0,1,0, then one at 512,0,0 will give exactly same hash
10:14 agaran I was curious whats wrong because I want to up to 4.15 too
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10:14 TommyTreasure i don't think it's an issue with 4.15, as much as it is with the 32bit os
10:15 TommyTreasure you want me to try those coords and paste the hash?
10:15 agaran if you have spare cycles
10:15 TommyTreasure give me a few, have to load the test world
10:16 agaran take your time :)
10:17 TommyTreasure i can pm the ip if you want hands on
10:18 agaran I can login, I am thinking about possible solution that would work regardless 32 vs 64 bit build
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11:05 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Fix missing const in ServerActiveObject::getStaticData ee6d8c1 https://git.io/vMVok (2017-01-14T11:03:50Z)
11:22 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Fix another missing const reported by clang & @sfan5 ee9b59a https://git.io/vMVoi (2017-01-14T11:20:59Z)
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11:30 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Fix build with freetype support disabled 7168287 https://git.io/vMVod (2017-01-14T11:28:43Z)
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11:40 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Fix build with freetype support disabled f0c6fec https://git.io/vMVKW (2017-01-14T11:39:20Z)
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12:31 agaran who is maintaining pipeworks nowadays?
12:33 VanessaE nore does mostly
12:34 nore is there a problem with it?
12:34 nore or is it still the same one?
12:35 VanessaE (the same one?)
12:35 nore as TommyTreasure told me about a few days ago
12:36 nore yesterday actually
12:36 VanessaE wait,...a bug in pipeworks?  NOOOOOOOO!!! impossible!
12:36 VanessaE :)
12:36 agaran nore: I made crude fix for TommTreasure's issue..
12:37 nore agaran: what was your fix exactly?
12:37 agaran but would like to talk a little as I might not see some issue with it.. tho it works for him
12:37 agaran reworked hash function
12:37 nore yeah, that
12:37 agaran http://wklej.org/hash/23a6094e078/
12:37 nore still, I don't understand why there are problems
12:37 agaran this way it works for both 32bit and 64bit builds same way not hitting to INT32 limit
12:37 nore hmmm
12:37 agaran int32limit
12:37 nore wait
12:38 agaran multiplication done to convert pos to integer hits limit in numbers..
12:38 nore could he be using LuaJIT and would LuaJIT be losing precision?
12:38 agaran and sets at -UNITMAX
12:38 agaran it uses integer, value spitted is -2^31 roughly..
12:38 nore hmmm
12:38 nore that's not good indeed
12:38 agaran thats why I turned it to hex as it is only key for array.. and it works
12:39 agaran yup, especially that it hits from behind unaware about issue without any warning anywhere..
12:39 nore though, there is a slight problem with your fix
12:39 agaran VanessaE: ;)
12:39 nore which is compat with old worlds
12:39 agaran it does not preserve compat yes
12:39 agaran it was quick crude hack
12:39 agaran just to fix immediate problem..
12:39 nore of course
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12:40 agaran so shall I prepare something that handles format upgrade (and does format3 then?)
12:40 nore if you want to, I can do it otherwise
12:40 agaran though I like to see MT at least reporting that luajit has issue in this build with limiting numbers, as part of build process
12:41 agaran I am just annoying QA.. ;)
12:41 nore ^ yeah, that would be good to report
12:44 agaran or most of mods would need to do system diags to find out during installation fi they are going to work on this env..
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12:52 Markow Awesome ... *Discord* now available from their website for Linux! Both cutting edge development & stable versions.
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12:58 Calinou Markow: yes, it's pretty ne
12:59 IhrFussel What's the minimum required Android version for the app? Does anybody know?
13:00 Markow Calinou: I'm thrilled! Discord is very good quality regarding voice, and text based chat is smooth. Not bad for a FREE app, and now for Linux!
13:00 Calinou IhrFussel: 4.4 or 5.0, I don't remember
13:00 Markow Skype is bloat compared to Discord
13:01 Calinou yeah, Skype kind of stinks
13:01 IhrFussel Nah 5.0 can't be and 4.4 would be quite high
13:01 Calinou Discord/Telegram are trendy right now
13:01 Calinou IhrFussel: uh, most people are on 4.4 or higher now
13:01 Calinou you should ask in #minetest-dev for a definitive answer
13:01 Calinou here my phone runs Android 7 ;)
13:01 Calinou and I'm getting a new one, which comes with Android 6.0.1 but will be updatable to Android 7
13:01 IhrFussel There are still many Android phones with 4.3 or lower in use...4.4 is the most used one yes
13:02 Krock IhrFussel, mine's somewhere around 2.x .. keep forgetting the exact version xD
13:02 Calinou IhrFussel: nowadays, 5.0 is most popular I think, not 4.4
13:02 Calinou still, any powerful enough phone is likely to have Android 4.4 at least
13:09 IhrFussel Calinou, actually the updated distribution is: 6.0 (30%), 5.0 (10%), 4.4 (23%)
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13:10 IhrFussel 4.4 dropped really fast, last time I checked a few months ago and 4.4 was the king
13:11 Calinou good thing I guess :P
13:14 Markow Looks like Minetest gamers now have a great new FREE app to use while on multiplayer: Discord ;)
13:14 Markow No more paying for servers. For Mumble, one must pay for a server, correct?
13:15 agaran mumble is opensource but still you need server running somewhere, yes
13:15 Persi[m] Pay is relative
13:15 * Taose prefers irc
13:16 Markow Taose: But IRC has no voice while on multiplayer
13:16 agaran sure, irc is good but not voice;)
13:16 * Taose sighs at the loss of good old fashion cb
13:16 Markow As text based chat, I love IRC, nothing beats it.
13:16 Calinou Markow: you need a server running for Mumble, but it's not the problem (there are many public servers, most unused)
13:17 Calinou problem is Mumble's UI kind of sucks, and it lacks a lot of features (permissions management is too basic/hard to do, can't set volume per user...)
13:17 Markow Calinou: Yes, agreed
13:18 Persi[m] The really worrying part about discord is that their business model is a bit of a mystery, which always ends up meaning that they sell their users' data
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13:19 Taose Of course they're selling users data
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13:22 Calinou they have Discord Pro, I think, now
13:22 Calinou with higher upload limits
13:22 Calinou but yes, they're largely running on venture capital
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13:28 Markow I don't mind at all, I don't masquerade my identity on social media, so Twitter and Facebook also share my personal info. I have nothing to hide. Let Discord share my info as well.
13:29 agaran thats why some don't use twitter, facebook.
13:30 Markow Personally, I'm quite annoyed on those people on Twitter and FB that use fictitious identities for their accounts. There should be a control implemented on social media, by law, enforcing everyone to use a real first and surname.
13:31 Markow This can be done under an international agreement using passports and the passport number. For those without a passport, well, tough luck, they won't be allowed to have a Twitter or FB account.
13:31 Calinou this is problematic to eg. transgender people though
13:32 Calinou who would get harassed easily for putting their real name on social networks
13:32 Calinou unfortunately, enforcing real name everywhere has many impications
13:32 Calinou implications*
13:32 Markow Well, not everyone can be satisfied, and what % of the world population do transgender people make up?
13:32 Calinou another reason to not force real name everywhere would be, NSFW/porn
13:33 Calinou imagine NSFW communities required you to put your real name :)
13:33 Markow That's good, porn would be completely obliterated ;)
13:33 Markow Another reason to enforce real identities
13:34 Markow Also, when people use their real identity of FB / TT, it reduces the chance of rude comments and trolling
13:34 Markow Most who troll do so under false id
13:34 Markow So, I believe the benefits of enforcing authentic identifications exceed the pitfalls
13:35 agaran true it would kil trolling, but also  would make it impossible for people who live in regions where their views are politically incorrect..
13:35 Markow They would have to avoid using Social media then, and stick to IRC where any type of nick can be used ;)
13:35 agaran if irc isn't blocked..
13:35 LazyJ Religious police exist in middle eastern cultures. Post the wrong thing on social media and you will be killed.
13:36 agaran it is hard to blick http/80 https/443 ports but easy to block all unknown protocols..
13:36 Markow LazyJ: Again, they would have to avoid Social media
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13:36 agaran then nobody will hear their scream..
13:36 LazyJ Freedom of speech does not exist in all parts of the world. Another reason to remain annonymous.
13:36 agaran exactly
13:37 Markow What those people who reside in countries where freedom of speech is an issue, what they can do is use conduits (who in turn use real identities) to express their views, if possible
13:37 Markow Have someone express a view of someone else for them
13:37 LazyJ Idealism doe not always jibe with reality.
13:38 Markow Rather than use a fictitious name to do it
13:38 Markow Real Names would also greatly reduce "fake news"
13:39 agaran and would make easier for governments to control everything..
13:40 IhrFussel Guys the problem is rather that many countries have a different definition of "Freedom Of Speech" ... in Germany you MAY say "i think our chancellor is a very bad one and makes only mistakes" but you can't say "our chancellor is a stupid piece of sh**"
13:40 Markow Well, government must make a compromise by agreement and law to refuse to control or censor people. If people are using their real names, then let them express what they wish.
13:40 agaran Markow: you never looked then at some governments...
13:41 agaran in russia dozens of journalist die because they wrote few words too much..
13:41 agaran some are even blatant lies that it was random robbery.. everyone knows it was politically driven kgb work..
13:41 Markow agaran: I have and am aware there are many corrupt governments, even the US govt is corrupt in many ways, but there must be some intl standard reached when it comes to authenticating real users on Social Media
13:42 Markow Do you truly believe the CIA or FBI is not corrupt?
13:42 agaran Markow, agreements can't even get everyone real freedom to speech, so why give up with chance to hide your identity?
13:42 agaran I don't and I am glad I dont live in USA..
13:42 agaran NSA implements 1984..
13:42 Markow Well, I'm a dual US / EU citizen
13:43 LazyJ No international standard would be credible when countries of the world are creating fake accounts on social media to monitor and persuade.
13:43 LazyJ Individuals aren't the only ones who use fake ID's.
13:43 Markow There would be no choice but to have an Intl watchdog monitor IDs
13:43 LazyJ Military, police, gov't agencies, etc.
13:43 Markow But it's a difficult task to set this up
13:44 agaran I am glad they can't monitor all yet.. and moment they will, lot of freedom will be lost forever
13:44 agaran because people having other views on things will be even if not harmed, simply pushed out of everything..
13:44 Markow I believe in the freedom of speech, but deplore when people must hide their real identity on TT or FB
13:44 agaran Markow, read 1984..
13:45 Markow I have
13:45 agaran I believe that freedom of speech will die if you will not be able to hide identity efficiently
13:45 LazyJ Sitting safely behind a keyboard; never fearing a gun at the back of your head is leisure.
13:45 Markow Freedom of speech and the freedom to masquerade your identity are not the same
13:45 agaran governement will always be able to create false identities when they want to..
13:46 agaran but second helps to have first
13:46 agaran in europe many topics are non political.. there were moments when police was chasing people who were against current government..
13:46 agaran on their blogs..
13:46 agaran in europe, not russia..
13:46 Markow By law, if citizens might be required to use real IDs, then government should as well. It should all be implemented as such.
13:47 agaran Markow, and you -seriously- believe that gov wont make workaround for it?
13:47 Markow Nobody should have the privilege of using a fake ID
13:47 LazyJ Laws do not apply to those in government. Time has proven, over and over again.
13:47 Markow That's where independent orgs such as Wikileaks come into play, to monitor the govt
13:47 agaran every animal is equal, but some are more equal than others
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13:47 agaran wikileaks will not exists if there will be no false identitis..
13:48 agaran because they won't close wikileaks, they will simply chase all supporters
13:48 Markow Assange isn't hiding his ID
13:48 agaran him not, lot of others, do
13:48 Markow Neither is Snowden
13:48 LazyJ Assange is still hiding. If he steps away from the embassy, he's dead.
13:48 Markow It's a scandal
13:49 Markow Assange and Snowden should be set free
13:49 LazyJ It's how the real world works.
13:49 agaran no, it is reality.. and how freedom of speech works in reality
13:49 Markow Nothing held against them
13:49 agaran thats why, we need false identities, with all bad stuff it brings
13:49 Markow But you see the problems false identities brings with it?
13:49 agaran of course, and thing that benefits for now are bigger than drawbacks
13:49 Markow Trolling, insulting, fake news, etc
13:50 Markow I'm not sure if the benefits exceed the drawbacks
13:50 Markow That's debatable ;)
13:50 agaran yes, of course, ask people who are in prisons for saying truth..
13:51 agaran ask why many bad news about side effects of political decisions are swept under carpet.. and no mainstream media officially says about them..
13:51 Markow Those people put into prison for speaking honestly were put there unethically, and illegally IMO
13:51 LazyJ When someone who doesn't like you finds you and physically harms you, you will know "drawbacks".
13:51 LazyJ The world is not kind; is not just.
13:51 agaran still as long as law enforcement acts illegally.. you want to keep yourself safe, right?
13:51 agaran first fix law enforcement, government, then take away false identities
13:51 Markow Look at how dishonest MSM (Mainstream Media) is
13:52 LazyJ Nothing new there.
13:52 LazyJ Propaganda is an old art.
13:52 Markow But media specifically has an ethical obligation to the public to report facts, and not be politcally partisan
13:52 agaran and they nearly ignore it
13:52 LazyJ Ehm... haven
13:53 Markow They do ignore it, unfortunately
13:53 agaran well not channel for that..
13:53 LazyJ haven't you heard about the recent US election cycle?
13:53 Markow Of course
13:53 Markow I'm following it closely
13:53 Markow CNN should be legally liquidated
13:54 Markow Along with NY Times, Washington Post, La Times, Boston Globe, ABC, NBC, CBS ;)
13:54 Markow I'm from NYC
13:54 Markow from Manhattan
13:55 agaran and going that way, you would eliminate 99% of media.
13:55 Markow Right ;)
13:55 agaran because all of them lie in some spot
13:55 agaran including social media
13:55 Markow It's true
13:56 Markow I would be too honest to be an attorney ;)
13:56 Markow My ethical values are too high
13:57 agaran yup..
13:57 Markow Anway, apologies for being slightly off-topic here
13:57 Markow *Anyway
13:58 Markow Better to focus on Discord, using it with Minetest ;)
13:58 Markow That said, I'm going outside to shovel snow. Central Europe getting hit hard!
13:59 Markow BBL
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14:04 Taose We've had fake news since Fox News went live...
14:05 Taose Also, no media has an "ethical" obligation to be partisan, that's kinda retarded. They're private businesses, they're in it to make a profit and that profit is often made by being partisan.
14:06 Taose Only news that I know of that is non-partisan, is either set up to by the government by separate or non-profit organizations.
14:06 Taose Both of which are very few and far between.
14:07 Krock built a snowman today.. I believe with this snow it'll be covered with some centimeters of snow in some hours :/
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14:07 Taose keke
14:07 Taose Make a bigger snowman?
14:08 Krock uhm.. 60cm wasn't enough?
14:08 Krock still, it was quite much snow I used
14:08 Taose lmfao
14:09 agaran Krock, thats not even 2 node snowman. you can do better
14:12 Taose rofl
14:12 Taose It'll only be a true snowman if it takes 1000 nodes
14:13 Krock :/
14:13 * Taose hands Krock a wooden shovel
14:14 Fixer completely wooden
14:17 Taose ^
14:17 LazyJ Rain here, if we're lucky.
14:17 LazyJ Borderline between freezing temps.
14:18 LazyJ Potential for iced roads and walkways.
14:20 proller joined #minetest
14:21 LazyJ Heh. I'm a real ray of hope and sunshine today. :p
14:21 LazyJ Bah-humbug!
14:21 LazyJ
14:26 agaran if obsidian is so hard, that it requires minimum steel tools, couldn't it make decent obsidian axe for wood?
14:27 agaran durable on wood, but not capable to work on harder materials?
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14:35 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetestmapper: Fix compilation without PostgreSQL 95b2f46 https://git.io/vMVy3 (2017-01-14T14:33:25Z)
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14:42 Taose Obsidian as it is formed in Minetest is notoriously brittle
14:42 Taose (or would be)
14:43 Taose So it'd make terrible swords
14:44 agaran i mean just axes for chopping wood
14:52 Taose Make the visual representation I'll try making a mod for it?
14:52 Taose (I'm crap at art)
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15:44 steve__ #Desktop.net
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15:52 ThomasJaguar1212 just wondering, i noticed the joystick support, is there a way to configure the mapping, maps out on my gamepad kinda odd...
15:53 Taose ...
15:53 Taose Deleting things from mod gui is...
15:53 Taose not as easy as it looks
15:56 Jordach >implying minetest was easy as it looks
15:56 Taose Not at all
15:56 Taose I can't figure out what I need to delete from init.lua to make the damn button disappear >.<
15:57 Jordach guibutton
15:57 Taose I thought just deleting the button from formspecs would work
15:57 Jordach usually
15:57 Jordach Taose, it's stored in teh block
15:57 Taose nope
15:57 Jordach dig and replace it
15:57 Taose hmm
15:57 Jordach blocks store metadata
15:57 Taose ...
15:57 Jordach including guibuttons until they get updated or replaced
15:57 Taose Well then
15:57 Taose ...
15:57 Taose >.>
15:57 * Taose doesn't feel like a twat
15:59 Jordach Taose, trust me, i once even replicated a chest with working lid hinge
15:59 Jordach apparently latency is the issue of the server
15:59 Jordach (and i wish we had client side stuff to work with too)
15:59 Taose o.O
16:00 Jordach https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHfmoG4MUIQ
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16:01 Jordach it looks best locally hosted, but that's true with MT
16:08 ThomasJaguar1212 it seems apparent the default joystick map wasnt designed for this gamepad, left and right on the right thumbstick is moving the camera up and down, and up and down on the dpad is moving the camera left and right.
16:09 Taose heh
16:09 Taose Are you holding the gamepad the right way round?
16:10 ThomasJaguar1212 yes. its an interact ProPad (picture a PS2 controller clone)
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16:19 agaran nore: so I shall make that patch along with upgrader?
16:20 nore agaran: well, if you do so, I will be happy to merge it :)
16:20 lumidify joined #minetest
16:21 agaran ok I'll try to make PR
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16:29 Fixer IhrFussel: there is no installer for 0.4.15 currently
16:30 Fixer IhrFussel: there is installer with older 0.4.14 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/re​leases/download/0.4.14/setup-win64.exe
16:30 TelepathicVampir if i wanted to request a feature on minetests github, do i use 'new Pull request'
16:30 IhrFussel So installers are not available at launch, alright
16:30 Taose No Tele
16:30 Taose Definitely no
16:30 Taose >.<
16:30 TelepathicVampir how then?^^
16:31 Taose Pull requests are used to request to merge changes that you have made to your fork.
16:31 sfan5 well first you find out whether you issue belongs to minetest/minetest or minetest/minetest_game
16:31 sfan5 then you press 'new issue'
16:31 TelepathicVampir ah alright, request concerning the mapgenv7 would go..?
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16:31 sfan5 minetest/minetest
16:32 TelepathicVampir thx
16:33 TelepathicVampir and if i know how to change the code to implement my requested feature in the engine, i'd create a fork, change the code and do a pull request?
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16:42 Krock TelepathicVampir, fork, new branch, changes, pull request
16:43 IhrFussel I implemented a "case-insensitive autocomplete" function on my server that helps players on phones/tablets with typing names when using certain commands like teleport...But when the player name contains a - and you type the full name it says "Player not found"...do I have to escape - in string.match()?
16:45 Krock either \-  or [-], I'm not sure
16:57 IhrFussel Krock, I knew it ugh...well thanks and bye
16:58 xerox123 keep getting this with the irc mod: http://i.imgur.com/hsydeWf.png
16:58 xerox123 any way to fix it?
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17:02 rdococ .
17:02 juanmati .
17:03 sfan5 xerox123: https://github.com/minetest-mods/irc#installing
17:04 xerox123 oh... thanks
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17:44 passant hi there, is it possible to make minetest handle a change changes file from disk without restart? in my case a plyer skin. minetest already sees that the file is there but does not apply it to the player so the client creates a dummy image.
17:45 Calinou no, not possible, passant
17:45 passant awww :(
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18:15 WSDguy2014 Hey guys, in 0.4.15, i created new world with mapgen v7 and i tried to find a lava, but i can't find no none lava liquids, how i supposed to find lava to make obsidian glass?
18:18 WSDguy2014 Also, in 0.4.14 if you aim at dropped item for example apple, will say on tooltip "Apple". In 0.4.15, how did removed ability to look at dropped item entity for name???
18:19 sfan5 you can find lava like usually
18:19 sfan5 in a world i just created i found some at -300
18:20 Taose Lava is quite far down
18:20 Taose Just follow a cave as far down as it goes
18:20 Taose you can press F5 for the debug options
18:20 Taose I think that still shows what you're pointing at
18:30 WSDguy2014 I disabled debug display, pointing at item drop entity has name "Diamond Pickaxe" does not shown on tooltip, enabled debug info, pointing at item drop entity, still does not shown on tooltip. I guess feature removed in 0.4.15. Taose, are you using 0.4.15-dev? Did you tested on 0.4.15?
18:33 Fixer i dropped torch, without F5 shows nothing, with F5 - GenericCAO hp=1 blabla
18:33 Taose Erm nope
18:33 Taose I just use the debug display really.
18:33 Fixer 0.4.15devc
18:33 Taose what's the difference between minetest.register_craftitem and minetest.register_tool?
18:33 Fixer Taose: lava is pretty abundant, just dig down a bit
18:34 Taose >.> it was quite rare for me, maybe I hadn't dug down far enough X)
18:34 Taose (not me having the lava finding issue though)
18:35 Fixer WSDguy2014: there was some change about tooltips, try searching paramat tooltips on github, i will look at it later
18:35 Fixer WSDguy2014: i see tooltip in 0.4.14
18:35 Fixer but not in 0.4.15
18:36 Fixer there was change, but i need to recheck if it is not some kind of side effect
18:36 WSDguy2014 Fixer: Feature removed for some reason...
18:36 LazyJ Running 0.4.15-dev from 2016_12_24 - *dropped* items do not display the item name.
18:37 LazyJ Might be a handy bit of info to have when mining in the dark, wondering what items are worth picking up.
18:38 Thomas-S joined #minetest
18:38 LazyJ Though littering the server with dropped items is not a good thing.
18:44 WSDguy2014 I found also a little bit problem in 0.4.15, i pressing F5 3 times to display wireframe view (requires "debug" priviledge) but profiler graph is hidden, then i pressing F5 one time, will say "Debug info, profiler graph, and wireframe hidden".
18:47 LazyJ The first toggle is more useful to average players, the other two are for debugging. I reckon the message let the curious know that there is more but the explanation isn't conveniently at hand for them.
18:48 LazyJ (shrugs) MT is still rough around the edges.
18:48 LazyJ
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18:51 agaran I'd say that MT has lot of unnecesary edges at first.. then you can smooth remaining ones..
18:53 Calinou the F5 menu should probably be gone by default (ie. not bound to any key by default)
18:53 Calinou coordinates need to be displayed either all the time, or by pressing another key
18:54 XeonSquared Were there many mod-breaking changes in 0.4.15?
18:54 XeonSquared Actually, I'll check the changelog
18:55 LazyJ Recipe conflicts is another area to check.
18:56 WSDguy2014 I'm still waiting for changelog 0.4.14 --> 0.4.15 to be complete. It is going to be longest changelog in the next update?
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18:58 Calinou we don't have a real changelog because nobody took the time to write it :/
18:58 Calinou I wanted to do this, but now I have an internship
18:59 LazyJ I think Fixer wrote up something for 0.4.15.
18:59 paramat WSDguy2014 lava is found in the large caves below y = -256
19:00 LazyJ Here it is:   https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=243949#p243949
19:00 LazyJ
19:00 WSDguy2014 paramat: Okay, we will see...
19:01 XeonSquared Ooo, initial gamepad support
19:01 Taose Is using onuse recommended or not?
19:01 Taose I'm in the midst of creating a new tool, and the documentation...not clear
19:02 Taose (I'm looking at minetest.register_tool)
19:06 Taose and on a more lua basic note
19:06 Taose onuse = function() do return end end...
19:06 Taose Could someone explain that to me
19:06 Taose What function is it calling?
19:07 agaran Taose: anonymous
19:07 Taose -_-
19:07 agaran function foo () ... end is equivalent to foo = function() ... end
19:07 agaran that is, function is stored in variable named function..
19:07 agaran named foo in example
19:08 Taose So basically... it allows it to use all the other functions in the mod?
19:08 agaran like C storing reference to function in pointer then doing pointer magic
19:08 agaran yes,
19:08 agaran it is sort in-place declaration of anonymous function and assigning it to onuse variable
19:09 Taose Other question (and lua is being evasive on this) does it matter where functions are written? In C if you don't write them at the top you had hell to pay (or at least a prototype)
19:09 agaran if it is shared by few nodes I'd rather make it separate function then assign few times but thats /me
19:09 agaran Taose: try? lua interpreter works as standalone too
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19:13 Taose does get_meta() get the node being pointed at or the node being...that the user is in?
19:13 Taose (I'm building my function first then solve the bugs when trying to run it >.<)
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19:16 agaran Taose: if you have booo:foobar() then it is equivalen to booo.foobar(booo);
19:16 Taose ?
19:17 agaran so 'booo' acts a bit like object which function foobar() is called with itself as first arg
19:17 agaran local meta = minetest.get_meta(pos)
19:17 agaran this gets meta from position pos, as long as it is loaded..
19:17 Taose ah
19:17 Taose and pos is the thing being pointed at?
19:18 Taose (at's what the documentation is indicating i think)
19:18 agaran pos is just x/y/z coords of node
19:18 Taose ah
19:18 Taose so all I'm getting is it's location
19:18 Taose rightoh
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19:23 paramat enter the pos of the node you want metadata from
19:24 Taose depends entirely where I'm pointing
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19:24 Fixer CHA-CHA!
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19:31 Fixer WSDguy2014: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4131
19:31 Fixer WSDguy2014: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4134
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19:32 Fixer paramat: could you look at https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4134 that was intended to remove description of dropped item in F5 mode?
19:34 Fixer paramat: i'm puzzled why you guys removed description in F5 mode, but at the same time show debug info of dropped item at the same time
19:34 LazyJ If the change is reverted in the engine, will it show on clients that connect to the reverted engine server?
19:35 paramat i guess because it's ok to show extra information with F5
19:36 Fixer paramat: by why not showing item description, like sand/coal/etc?
19:36 Fixer but*
19:37 paramat that's at screen top in F5 mode
19:37 Fixer paramat: nope, it does not show info of dropped item
19:38 Fixer paramat: https://i.imgur.com/B0ildql.png
19:38 WSDguy2014 Really? Normal chest blocks removed feature ability to look (aiming) at chest block on tooltip says "Chest" from non-dropped item entity in 0.4.15...
19:40 paramat ok i see
19:40 * Taose wonders why the hell minetest won't recognize my init lua
19:40 paramat entity name needs showing in F5 mode then
19:41 paramat open an issue?
19:41 Fixer paramat: yes
19:41 Taose ...
19:41 Taose that's why
19:41 Fixer will open
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19:44 XeonSquared \o/
19:45 XeonSquared https://a.pomf.cat/xeflvn.png This is what a computer in Minetest looks like, it has a whole 48 words of memory!
19:46 Taose well get_meta did not do what I thought it was going to do
19:46 agaran hmm, what nodes those are?
19:46 agaran digilines I recognize..
19:46 XeonSquared One is a processor, the other 3 are memory
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19:47 whitephoenix http://i.imgur.com/ATa3YNK.jpg
19:49 agaran XeonSquared: yup I got that but what mod provides those..
19:49 XeonSquared agaran: the one I'm working on
19:49 XeonSquared lemme commit and push my changes
19:49 Krock XeonSquared, what's the data bus width? 8 bit?
19:49 agaran XeonSquared: ah :)
19:49 XeonSquared Krock: digilines is the physical bus
19:50 XeonSquared the processor only likes 12-bit values though
19:50 rubenwardy XeonSquared: I was expecting significantly more mesecons than that
19:50 Krock 12-bit? that's a strange format
19:50 XeonSquared Krock: I wanted a PDP-8 but as a stack machine
19:50 agaran well there were 4 bit cpus in begining..
19:51 Krock power of two is logical, but why 12?
19:51 agaran why not, width of bus does not matter aside of size of operand
19:51 agaran and 12bit maybe better than 2 cycle 8bit bus
19:51 agaran faster
19:51 Krock yes, in the middle way from 8 to 16
19:51 agaran I mean
19:52 Krock it's not a common size, but definitely works this way
19:52 XeonSquared Krock: Because the PDP-8 was 12-bit mostly
19:52 XeonSquared also because then I can have an address fit in one word without it being tiny
19:52 agaran Krock: early in days were bigger problems than width of bus :)
19:52 XeonSquared 8-bit is too small, 16-bit is too big
19:53 agaran for relative jumps you have offset encoded as part of instruction
19:53 Fixer enlarge your bit
19:53 XeonSquared as such, 12-bit
19:53 Fixer WSDguy2014: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5042
19:55 Krock "welve bits could also store two six-bit ASCII subset characters."
19:55 Krock haven't thought about that. Nice :)
19:55 Krock *Twelve
19:56 agaran Krock: heh for quite long stuff used 5 bit baudot, then slowly ASCII (7bit)  ;)
19:56 Jordach whitephoenix, is that a python in your pocket or are you happy to see me Kappa
19:57 XeonSquared https://github.com/XeonSquared/test3d
19:57 whitephoenix I'm happy to see theres python in my pocket
19:59 XeonSquared I also have a really terrible assembler for it
20:00 agaran written in lua?;)
20:00 XeonSquared yup
20:01 XeonSquared Need to update it for the instruction changes though
20:02 XeonSquared 8 instructions for a totally usable computer :3
20:03 agaran can be used to scare kids too
20:04 agaran cheapie was showing part of working mesecon based processor
20:04 XeonSquared https://github.com/XeonSquared/test3d-tools
20:04 XeonSquared that's the assembler
20:05 XeonSquared oh nice
20:05 XeonSquared I built a few redpower-based computers once upon a time
20:15 sapier Hello, does anyone know how to find out which lua code causes a Invalid Position exception?
20:20 Szkodnix joined #minetest
20:21 Krock would require a traceback from Lua
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20:34 nore XeonSquared: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?p=79238#p79238 might interest you as well
20:34 Tuxedo[Qyou] joined #minetest
20:36 XeonSquared Shiny
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21:32 MinetestBot [git] lhofhansl -> minetest/minetest: Only set material flag on rendered meshes (#5023) c41352a https://git.io/vMwTa (2017-01-14T21:30:14Z)
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23:33 Taose ... how do you get the name of a node being pointed at?
23:38 Taose Bean staring at the Lua api docs for hours now >.<;;
23:39 agaran Taose: I would take technic mod, and look at tools there, or at node inspector from other mod
23:39 Taose Node inspector?
23:39 agaran yes, something that shows node light level, node type etc..
23:40 * Taose scraps everything they've been doing for the past four hours
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