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IRC log for #minetest, 2017-01-06

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Time Nick Message
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00:39 Fixer kaeza:
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14:56 Topic for #minetest is now Welcome to #minetest, official Minetest channel | Latest version: 0.4.15 (2016-12-22) | Responses may take a while, be patient | Rules: http://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: http://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/
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15:45 Taose Do extensions/mods have to be in Lua?
15:45 rdococ idk for sure but someone could develop a fork with a Javascript API or something instead
15:46 Taose Javascript
15:46 Taose ...
15:46 Taose okay I've stopped laughing now.
15:46 rdococ ik
15:46 rdococ :p
15:47 Taose I was thinking python actually.
15:47 rdococ that was just an example. a terrible example.
15:47 Taose Was no less funny.
15:47 rdococ python
15:47 Taose >.> yes...apparently THE language to learn for a complete newbie interested in games programming.
15:48 Taose (and it works on my system, so that's a big plus)
15:48 rdococ really?
15:48 Taose for complete newbies >.>
15:48 Taose C++ is the best to learn overall I believe (for games)
15:49 Taose Unfortunately, I can't get my head around pointers and few of the "slightly" advanced topics (probably due to shitty tuts)
15:50 rdococ can you give an example of one of those topics?
15:50 Taose (Initially, I understand pointers just fine...it's when passing references and so on that screws me over)
15:50 Taose hang on a moment...
15:51 rdococ pointers just sound like complicated variables to me
15:51 Taose The last time I tried I ended up having to skip pointers and dynamic memory but still got stuck in Classes II
15:51 Taose http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/
15:52 Taose Pointers...aren't variables in the traditional sense.
15:53 Taose But I think they can be assigned things, but they point to memory not to data
15:53 Taose or some such nonsense
15:53 rdococ they point to a memory address
15:53 rom1504 they are variables alright
15:54 Taose >_>
15:54 Taose No rom, it's witchcraft.
15:54 rdococ pretty sure they're just complicated variables.
15:54 Taose yes well...
15:54 Taose python so I don't have to worry about that crap (initially)
15:55 octacian Taose: yes, they have to be in Lua. Lua is actually kinda THE language to learn for a "complete newbie interested in games programming."
15:55 Taose >_> but this is the only place that says that ._.
15:55 rdococ I have to agree
15:56 octacian Google it. You'll find MANY other places that say the same things. Other large games like WoW and Angry Birds use Lua too :P
15:56 Taose But ho hum. At least I know outright that I won't be coding for minetest ;)
15:56 rdococ int a = 5; int *ptr = NULL; ptr = &a; *ptr = 8; // and now a = 8
15:56 Amaz lua is pretty easy to learn.
15:56 Amaz And it's very good as a scripting language.
15:56 octacian Amaz: I disagree. It's very easy to learn :P
15:56 Amaz :P
15:57 octacian lol
15:57 Taose and I probably will learn it...after I've learned python first.
15:57 rdococ octacian: I disagree with that. Everyone already knows it, they just have to find that knowledge in their mind
15:57 Taose python >> C++ >> Java >> Ruby >> Lua
15:57 octacian WHY...?
15:57 rdococ how rude, Taose
15:57 Taose (that's not a greater than >.>)
15:57 octacian rdococ: lol, I guess
15:57 rdococ oh.
15:57 rdococ -.
15:57 rdococ -.-*
15:58 rdococ no, it's a bit shift.
15:58 Krock it's a much-greater-than
15:58 Taose ._.
15:58 octacian Lua is about the easiest programming language to start with though.
15:58 rdococ Lua -> Python -> Ruby? -> Java? -> C++
15:58 octacian yes.
15:58 Krock octacian, batch would be #1 if it was a programming lang
15:59 rdococ sorry, batch?
15:59 octacian I guess, but...
15:59 Taose I know more FOSS with python than I do with Lua so I can practice with them and Python has an extensive game dev library.
15:59 Krock even kids play with them
15:59 octacian IF is was a programming lang.
15:59 rdococ BATCH?
15:59 Krock *IF it
15:59 Krock rdococ, no, just batch.
15:59 rdococ oh.
15:59 rdococ still.
15:59 rdococ JUST BATCH?!
16:00 Krock Problem? *trollface*
16:00 rdococ I don't think the trollface meme works in IRC.
16:00 Taose (... to be honest, I should have know this was going to happen ...)
16:00 rdococ (...um... how would you have known?
16:00 Taose *brings a Python to a Lua fight*
16:01 octacian *Lua wins*
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16:01 rdococ *Python gets constricted by Lua in an ironic twist*
16:02 octacian **Python dies**
16:02 Taose I get the message I'll take my python elsewhere >.>
16:02 rdococ look what you've done octacian, you scared away a possible de
16:02 rdococ dev*
16:03 Taose Eh not really
16:03 Taose I'm a bit set on learning Python for now and since that can't be used for MineTest, it's no biggy.
16:04 Taose >.> it's not that MineTest is in epic need of devs.
16:04 octacian rdococ: i did NOT!
16:04 rdococ octacian: you DID!
16:04 octacian lol
16:04 octacian did NOT!
16:04 Taose (So far, fantastically well put together, sure, there are changes I'd like...but they're inconsequential)
16:05 rdococ you DID!
16:05 An0n3m0us lol
16:05 octacian Okay, let's look at this like reasonable human beings rather than unreasonable children. Taose is still in IRC, so I would assume I did not scare him away.
16:05 octacian :rotfl:
16:05 Taose First language I learned was HTML :) *trollface*
16:06 rdococ okay, let's scare him away now
16:06 Taose lol
16:06 octacian lol
16:06 rdococ never bring a HTML to a programming language fight
16:06 octacian Taose: first thing I learned was a bit of JS. Then I learned HTML.
16:06 Taose o.O
16:07 Taose Actually that makes more sense.
16:07 rdococ what?!
16:07 Taose JS first, HTML later.
16:07 octacian ..then after HTML I learned PHP.
16:07 whitephoenix CSS is the best programming languages, whoever used C++ clearly didn't know what they were doing
16:07 octacian whitephoenix: uhm... lol
16:08 octacian in fact, I'm currently reading a 26-chapter book on PHP. then I'll read a 600-page JS book.
16:08 * Taose is suddenly not the target
16:08 octacian (26-chapter = 600-page)
16:08 octacian lol
16:09 rdococ you know, I am thinking about "learning" PHP.
16:10 Calinou rdococ: PHP is not a bad language, honestly, if you do it right
16:10 Taose Go for it, it's really handy if you're a website builder.
16:10 whitephoenix rdococ, everyone is moving to js, personally I would go to that instead
16:10 Calinou do use a framework, follow good practices (http://thisinterestsme.com/php-best-practises)
16:10 Taose >.> doesn't help that I disable JS for security reasons
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16:11 Calinou https://www.xkcd.com/538/ :P
16:11 Calinou either way, it would still work since JavaScript in this case would run on the back-end using Node.js
16:11 Taose They have to find me first
16:11 Taose Fair point
16:12 Taose In which case, I'm all for it.
16:12 octacian NodeJS is quite nice as an alternative to PHP
16:12 Calinou Node.js is fast, I'll give you that
16:12 * Taose watches hardcore person develop website in Fortran
16:12 Calinou but unfortunately, a lot of aspects in the usual frameworks are left undocumented, at least in my experience
16:12 octacian I've been using it lately messing with Electron
16:13 whitephoenix side note if you write desktop apps in js I will start a picket line at your front door
16:13 Taose X)
16:13 Calinou Electron is ok, if you can cope with the RAM usage and relative slowness (which certainly isn't a problem for some apps)
16:13 Calinou Visual Studio Code is quite snappy for an Electron app, but Microsoft engineering team is one of a kind
16:13 Calinou (unlike GitHub engineering team, it seems)
16:13 whitephoenix at this point you might as well just run a local web app since people probably have a browser already running anyways
16:14 whitephoenix I really dislike electron
16:14 octacian I haven't found then using two much... Atom is nice and fast, as is Nylas N1, GitKraken, and a host of other apps.
16:14 Calinou Atom isn't exactly fast :( https://pavelfatin.com/typing-with-pleasure/
16:14 octacian whitephoenix: what do you prefer?
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16:14 Taose (this conversation has moved so far beyond me)
16:14 octacian there's Caret too..
16:14 Calinou Java-based IDEs are faring better, and Visual Studio Code likely beats it as well
16:14 whitephoenix octacian, for GUI?
16:14 Taose mmmm steamed or roasted?
16:14 rdococ (this conversation is beginning to move around me)
16:14 whitephoenix qt is the best gui system
16:14 octacian ok. for backend?
16:15 Calinou whitephoenix: problem is, Qt is really usable only in C++ and nothing else
16:15 Taose >.> and Python
16:15 whitephoenix nah theres lots of bindings
16:15 octacian true.
16:15 Calinou I tend to give up quickly on C++ judging on the situation of dependency management/build system
16:15 Amaz vim ftw :P
16:15 Taose ^ *shoots*
16:15 Calinou whitephoenix: other than Python, I don't know any *actual*, non-QML bindings that give you most functionality
16:15 whitephoenix if it has rust and python bindings thats all I care about
16:15 octacian ok, maybe atom is kinda slow.
16:15 Calinou the Rust binding is a QML one, it looks like crap on Linux last time I've tried
16:16 Calinou (unlike all other Qt apps I've used - and this was on KDE!)
16:16 whitephoenix weird
16:16 whitephoenix even if it's ugly I'd still prefer it over gtk and electron though
16:16 Taose Tkinter?
16:16 Calinou no, just no :P
16:16 Taose awww
16:17 whitephoenix or ncurses is good too
16:17 Calinou what's good with Electron is that hi-DPI support seems easy to implement, so is a responsive UI system
16:17 octacian huh, maybe, just MAYBE, I'll use something other than electron for my next project.. IDK what else there is that really is good though.
16:17 Calinou (since you can use any CSS)
16:17 octacian yeah, that's one thing I really like.
16:17 whitephoenix You can use css stylesheets in qt
16:17 Calinou theming is also easy
16:17 Calinou whitephoenix: only a very limited portion
16:18 Calinou btw, look at http://photonkit.com/
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16:18 Calinou it looks beautiful, but it has only macOS appeareance right now
16:19 whitephoenix I mean electron is great for developers but sucks for users
16:19 octacian eh, I'm sticking with electron.
16:19 Calinou if you use React, this exists as an alternative for Windows and macOS: http://reactdesktop.js.org/
16:20 Calinou unfortunately, providing a theme for the 150 Linuxes out there is going to be hard
16:20 octacian BTW, Calinou: about M$'s engineering team, it's one of the reason's why I'll never touch Windows again in my life (aside from testing)
16:20 Calinou octacian: uh, they're more skilled than you think
16:20 Calinou Edge is actually something successful from a technical standpoint, for example
16:20 Calinou (it's the most power-efficient browser out there)
16:21 octacian MS with their 80-person team to develop their flight simulator couldn't keep up with 4 guys at xplane working on Macs.
16:22 octacian ..which is why they've long since discontinued Microsoft Flight Simulator.
16:22 whitephoenix the guy who made xplane is pretty cool
16:22 whitephoenix also >directx
16:23 octacian lol I was messing with Xplane <whatever the latest version is> a few weeks ago, and turns out I need more RAM.
16:23 whitephoenix I want to buy it but it's so expensive
16:23 whitephoenix flightgear has a lot of issues for me
16:24 Calinou you pretty much need 16 GB of RAM for XPlane IIRC
16:25 octacian yeah.
16:25 octacian I've only got 8GB, and it's only 1200MHz
16:25 * Calinou needs to fix XMP in his desktop by the way
16:26 Krock 1.2 GHz.. that's a RAM frequency? wow shit man
16:26 Calinou my DDR4 runs at 2133 MHz, and not 3200 MHz like it should :( because I've had bugs with XMP before, had to turn it off
16:26 Krock my DDR3 works with 533 MHz
16:27 Calinou that's 1066 MHz probably
16:27 octacian Krock: ONLY? lol
16:27 Calinou the "real" frequency is 533 MHz, but the "commercial" frequency is 1066 MHz
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16:27 Calinou I refer to commercial frequencies here, they're not as real but they're the most commonly used/least confusing :P
16:27 octacian lol
16:27 Krock type-1066 but the frequency is shown as 533 MHz
16:28 rdococ commercial/real frequencies???
16:28 Krock my DDR2 RAM used to have about the same clock
16:28 Krock (from the older mainboard)
16:28 Calinou rdococ: RAM will advertise twice the frequency of the "real" main clock
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16:31 rdococ why?
16:33 Calinou because reasons... you should ask in ##hardware :P
16:33 Krock just remembered that I had some old 4 MB SIMM RAM somewhere
16:33 Calinou (you need to be signed in to NickServ to talk there)
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16:44 Taose Suggestion for completeness in normal game...
16:44 Taose Make leaves compostable into dirt?
16:45 Taose (craft 9 leaves into a few blocks of dirt?)
16:46 rubenwardy heh
16:46 rubenwardy also - you can't use python as a scripting language nicely
16:46 rubenwardy embedding python is bad
16:47 rubenwardy it's discouraged at least
16:47 rubenwardy when I researched this
16:47 Taose Assuming you want to actually embed it...
16:48 rubenwardy I actually quite like JS :P
16:48 rubenwardy As long as you use ES6
16:48 rubenwardy and flow
16:49 rubenwardy But it's not better than Lua for Minetest, reall
16:49 rubenwardy yimo
16:52 Calinou V8 is a beast to compile, apparently
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17:45 red-001 !seen An0n3m0us>
17:45 MinetestBot red-001: Sorry, I haven't seen an0n3m0us> around.
17:45 red-001 !seen An0n3m0us
17:47 An0n3m0us !seen blue-001
17:47 MinetestBot An0n3m0us: Sorry, I haven't seen blue-001 around.
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17:52 steve does anybody know what is with the jungleserve???
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18:52 Taose Da fuq are are all these square looking things in my radar...?
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18:57 emunand Taose: enemies?
18:57 emunand or minetest herobrine
18:57 Taose I don't have a mob mod installed
18:57 Taose Currently exploring a cavern with the intention of turning it into a mine
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18:57 juhdanad Taose: is the area loaded?
18:58 Taose Got down to mese level and there's all kinds of square things
18:58 Taose Yep
18:58 Taose (and this is one big cavern...Minetest, you have outdone yourself)
18:59 Taose ...it looks relatively innocuous from the coast...
19:00 emunand seed?
19:00 emunand i want to make an ethoslab equivelent in minetes
19:01 emunand t
19:01 garywhite ethoslab?
19:01 Taose Seed is a bit...erm
19:01 Taose >_>
19:01 Taose how do we get the seed back...
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19:02 emunand f3
19:02 emunand or f4
19:03 Taose F3 enables/disables fog
19:03 emunand garywhite: an old Minecraft player who does a lot with redstone (which are mesecons)
19:03 Taose f4 does nothing
19:03 emunand check the top of the window then click f4
19:03 emunand it should be a profiler graph
19:03 emunand or description
19:04 sfan5 tokage: f5
19:04 sfan5 uh
19:04 Taose >.>
19:04 emunand that's the one
19:04 Taose No seed there
19:04 emunand should be at the top
19:04 emunand next to "Minetest"
19:04 Taose oh found it
19:04 sfan5 i will say seed = and some long number
19:05 Taose First...I am gonna find out wtf this is by digging to it
19:05 Taose ...much like how I found out what the green things were in the radar before x_x
19:06 juhdanad Oh, were they lava?
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19:06 Taose protip: DO NOT DIG TO THE BRIGHTEST GREEN SPOT WITH A BRONZE PICK
19:06 Taose especially if you're speed mining
19:06 * Taose did not stop
19:06 Taose >.>
19:07 Taose Turns out...vertical drop about 300 blocks
19:07 juhdanad Yes, Minetest generates square-shaped lava lakes.
19:07 juhdanad Oh, but why?
19:08 agaran Taose: heh..:)
19:10 whitephoenix wonder how hard it would be to put cleverbot in minetest chat
19:12 emunand whitephoenix: i think there is already a bot somewhere
19:12 emunand but what would be it's use?
19:13 whitephoenix idk
19:13 whitephoenix gonna stream in like 15 minutes I think, my obs settings should be fixed
19:15 * Taose wonders if Cleverbot wonders about whether they should implement a cleverbot
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19:19 whitephoenix alright I'm live @ twitch.tv/whitephoenix0 if anyone is interested
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19:22 agaran Taose: isn't that a recursive problem?
19:23 Taose ...
19:23 Jordach joined #minetest
19:23 Taose >_>
19:23 Taose I..
19:24 Taose why is there a CORRIDOR UNDERGROUND!?
19:24 sfan5 is it made out of cobble?
19:25 Taose Seems like it
19:27 sfan5 dungeon
19:28 Taose O_o
19:28 Taose wut
19:29 sfan5 !wiki Dungeon
19:29 MinetestBot "Cobblestone, Mossy Cobblestone, Cobblestone Stair(or just Desert Stone)" - http://wiki.minetest.net/Dungeon
19:30 Taose Who would generate a dungeon
19:30 Taose WHY!?
19:30 Taose Oh god now I have to spend hours down here mapping it -_-
19:31 Taose How do I build a teleporter...
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19:38 Taose Well I said that but I think I'm already done
19:39 Krock Taose, why so worried about dungeons?
19:40 Taose Because have to explore them >.<
19:40 Taose Though this one appears quite small
19:40 sfan5 they're usually not big
19:40 Taose hm fair enough
19:40 Krock there's a mod that generates long paths/structures through your world
19:41 Taose >.>
19:41 Krock <.<
19:41 Taose Why does anyone one bother playing Minecraft when there's a Minetest...
19:41 sfan5 because Minecraft is more polished
19:41 Taose >_>
19:41 Taose ._.
19:41 Taose great
19:42 Taose now I'm going to have to donate...
19:42 Krock donate to paramat
19:42 Krock You MUST donate btw
19:42 Krock ;)
19:42 Fixer donate or die
19:43 Taose X)
19:43 Krock dying is too ineffective for players. they respawn
19:43 Taose I can't find a donate button on the main site...
19:43 Taose Found it
19:43 Krock https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=14935
19:43 emunand i will donate when they have bitcoin
19:44 sfan5 you can also donate with pull requests ;)
19:44 Krock or with bounties
19:44 Taose >.> my code is shitty
19:44 emunand i'm going to code right now
19:45 emunand i want to make a FOSS tetris android wear app
19:45 emunand although i am terrible at java
19:45 Taose >_>
19:45 sfan5 port minetest to smart fridges instead
19:45 Krock please donate cookies :3
19:45 Taose lmfao sfan5
19:45 emunand sfan5: soon
19:45 Krock fridges are the future
19:46 Taose Speaking of which
19:46 Taose the person who ported to android...
19:46 Taose gotta thank them
19:46 Krock but our community fridge is currently is not in use anymore. the feature freeze is over
19:46 juhdanad Taose: you don't have to send pull requests, reviews are also welcome. (I think...)
20:03 Taose Probably and I see the point about Paragon
20:03 Taose Has anyone suggested a GoFundMe account instead of Patreon?
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21:59 HitachiMagicWand hello
22:00 sfan5 hello
22:00 sfan5 nice nick
22:00 HitachiMagicWand thank you
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22:01 Krock perhaps 1/3 trademark protected
22:01 Krock indeed, very nice nick
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22:54 Taose hu...
22:54 Taose I think I've found a nice bug with the water
22:54 agaran which kind of it?
22:54 Taose Artificially extending the flow range through help of the bucket.
22:55 Taose Normally...if you just tip the bucket out on land, the water will drain away.
22:56 Taose Tipping it into more water however...
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23:37 Taose ...Paramat is in the UK... unless he's homeless, (4-8hrs a day working on Minetest excludes that possibility)... there's no way he should be on a quarter of the state income. >_>
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23:42 red-002 well it's well known that water is buggy
23:43 Taose >.> it works, it's good enough.
23:43 Taose It's not a bug I want to be fixed either.
23:44 * Taose goes to sign up on the Minetest forums
23:44 Taose BLACKLISTED
23:44 Taose dammit
23:44 Taose Does anyone have an email address or other communications way of contacted Paramat?
23:44 Taose contacting*
23:44 red-002 well mt water doesn't really obey the laws of physics
23:44 red-002 github?
23:45 red-002 that should have an email
23:45 red-002 he should be on IRC
23:46 red-002 you can use the bot to send a message to him
23:46 red-002 !tell
23:46 MinetestBot red-002: Need a nickname...
23:46 paramat Taose i'm here
23:46 Taose o.O
23:46 red-002 !tell Taose hello!
23:46 MinetestBot red-002: I'll pass that on when Taose is around
23:46 Taose >.>
23:46 MinetestBot Taose: Jan-06 23:46 UTC <red-002> hello!
23:47 Taose dammit red
23:47 Taose I could have sworn I checked the list
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