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IRC log for #minetest, 2016-10-31

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Time Nick Message
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00:57 erstazi Hello all, using Minetest 0.4.14 and my player is acting as if the left mouse button is stuck and keeps hitting. Mouse isn't stuck and tried shutting down and reopening with no avail. Thoughts?
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01:18 erstazi Had to go back to an old bug. https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2770 << It applies to Mac OS X however I am using Debian. Fixed the problem. Sorry for the noise.
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03:36 MinetestBot [git] lhofhansl -> minetest/minetest: Optionally disable optimization that causes underwater and cave rende… e1842ed https://git.io/vXt7u (2016-10-30T23:35:55-04:00)
03:39 swift110 hmm
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06:15 swift110 i need help installing tutorial on windows 7
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07:32 stiell Is there any way to disable mouse control of the viewing direction? I'm using a gamepad and would like to have the mouse cursor free at all times.
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08:40 kaeza stiell, as far as I know, there's no gamepad support in Minetest. so you must be using something like JoyToKey or antimicro
08:40 stiell kaeza: there is in master. No config support, though, so one has to modify source files.
08:42 kaeza uh, that's new
08:43 kaeza so I guess the answer is patch the sources to do what you want :)
08:59 PureTryOut[m] ooh I was wondering how to get that to work...
08:59 PureTryOut[m] is any gamepad support? so for example DS4 and DS3 as well as Xbox?
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09:19 JamesTait Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Hallowe'en! 😃  👻  🎃
09:20 PureTryOut[m] JamesTait (IRC): ooh you're here as well?!
09:23 PureTryOut[m] are you at every project that has a Lua API? :p
09:23 PureTryOut[m] or every Minecraft-like related projects that use Lua?
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09:24 JamesTait PureTryOut[m], it's mostly the Minecraft-like part that qualifies. 😃
09:24 PureTryOut[m] haha ok
09:24 Hijiri he's not in #lua, even though lua has a lua API
09:24 PureTryOut[m] good call Hijiri (IRC)
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11:04 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Lua voxelmanip: Add optional buffer param for 'get param2 data' 70e2df4 https://git.io/vXqZJ (2016-10-31T10:59:38Z)
11:05 MinetestBot [git] sofar -> minetest/minetest: Core.rotate_and_place: Remove unused call to get_look_pitch() 380a4b6 https://git.io/vXqZU (2016-10-31T10:55:36Z)
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13:56 sfan5 PureTryOut[m]: please tell me you're adding the (IRC) manually
13:56 sfan5 because that looks horrible
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14:13 tailot hi all, How to convert a map v6 to v7?
14:14 PureTryOut[m] sfan5 (IRC): lol no. I use the Matrix plugin for Weechat which adds that to the autocompletion
14:14 PureTryOut[m] you should all just stop using that inferior protocol if you want to get rid of that ;)
14:15 PureTryOut[m] or I should just use a different Matrix client but meh
14:15 sfan5 that's a pretty shitty design desicion
14:15 sfan5 tailot: you can't
14:15 PureTryOut[m] I agree
14:15 PureTryOut[m] I didn't made the plugin though ;)
14:15 PureTryOut[m] although it's Lua so I could probably change it
14:15 Amadin Hi all.  I need replace on map generation nodes near water, how i can check nodes nearest water?
14:16 tailot @sfan5 :-(
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14:17 sfan5 tailot: why do you want to do that even?
14:17 PureTryOut[m] I don't know exactly, but you could look how the farming plugin does it for making soil wet Amadin (IRC)
14:17 Amadin i mean get nodes names
14:17 tailot sfan5: add the savannah biome
14:17 Amadin PureTryOut[m] on map generation?
14:18 sfan5 hm
14:18 sfan5 tailot: you *can* change the map generator to v7 afterwards but there will be rough "cuts" in the landscape
14:18 PureTryOut[m] amadin (IRC): eeuh idk on map generation. farming does it when the player hoes the dirt
14:19 PureTryOut[m] on map generation you're not sure the block next to it even exists yet I would think, but idk anything about map generation tbh
14:19 tailot sfan5: how to change the generator?
14:19 sfan5 map_meta.txt change mg_name
14:20 tailot tyy
14:20 sfan5 but don't say i didn't warn you
14:20 sfan5 it won't look nice at places where old and new are next to each other
14:20 Amadin It possible for mob spawn (mobs:spawn_specific("slimes:lavabig", {"default:lava_source"},{"default:lava_flowing"}, 4, 20, 30, 5000, 8, -32000, -64))
14:20 Amadin so i think it possible for node placing too
14:21 sfan5 Amadin: that is some mod specific example
14:21 tailot sfan5: ok thanks
14:21 sfan5 look into the code of the mobs mod how they do it
14:21 Amadin ok
14:22 PureTryOut[m] I was about to say, since when does Minetest have a mob API?
14:22 Amadin mobs-redo
14:22 PureTryOut[m] about that, why doesn't Minetest have a mob API? has just no one made it yet?
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15:28 Amadin What mean symbol "#" in loops?
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15:37 rom1504 what loop
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16:04 Calinou Wuzzy: do you know notable server admins that use More Blocks?
16:04 Calinou is it stable enough to be released as 1.0.0?
16:04 Calinou I'm asking because in https://github.com/minetest​-mods/moreblocks/issues/50, Debian maintainers would like a stable release for a package
16:04 Calinou I think it's stable enough to release as 1.0.0, but documentation is lacking
16:05 Wuzzy !?!?!?!?! DEBIAN? ?!?!?!?!?!
16:05 Calinou (should be documented on wiki… but that can be done for later releases)
16:05 Wuzzy OMFG hell freezes over
16:05 Wuzzy Debian is actually packaging a minetest mod. This is the last day. Hell freezes over. Christmas and Easter are on the same day (and Halloween!) Impossible
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16:06 Calinou Wuzzy: they've been doing so since 2013!
16:06 Wuzzy I don't know any server admin which uses it. However, I am the wrong person to ask because I am not on many servers around.
16:06 Calinou but the version of More Blocks they include is from 2013
16:06 Wuzzy ahhhhh
16:06 Calinou they never updated it
16:06 Wuzzy okay, everything is back to normal
16:06 Wuzzy this is typical Debian xD
16:07 Wuzzy congrats, this is one of many Debian packages which is seriously out of date
16:07 Wuzzy hmmm I have not seriously used moreblocks so far, only for fooling around and testing
16:07 Wuzzy at least I did not encounter crashes
16:08 Wuzzy I think the circular saw would make more sense as seperate mod
16:08 Wuzzy the decor nodes seem to be alright.
16:08 Calinou yeah, it should have been kept as separate mod
16:08 Wuzzy however, I did not test all the 1000's of special slabs
16:08 Calinou making More Blocks more modular would be great but I don't have time and all :(
16:09 Calinou would likely break compatibility too
16:09 Wuzzy why
16:09 Calinou we can have aliases but that's about it
16:09 Wuzzy you forget LBMs
16:10 Wuzzy i think you'll need an LBM, but it can be easy: just use minetest.swap_node
16:10 Wuzzy since the block logic stays the same
16:11 twoelk http://wiki.minetest.net/im​ages/0/02/Modsonservers.png <-as of 30 July 2016
16:11 Calinou thanks, More Blocks is still quite popular :p
16:11 fireglow wow, didn't know irc was so popular
16:12 twoelk ask sfan for newer stats
16:12 Wuzzy damn
16:13 Wuzzy i hoped to see hudbars in this list
16:13 twoelk http://wiki.minetest.net/File:Modsonservers.png <- older versions
16:15 Wuzzy I hope hudbars will overtake hud one day. :)
16:16 Wuzzy What is wieldview?
16:17 Calinou viewing wielditems of other players in the 3D world
16:17 Wuzzy strange, i cant find the wieldview mod
16:17 Calinou it's part of the 3D_armor modpack
16:17 twoelk the table includes counts how many players are on a server that uses the mod so mods used on popular servers wheigh in heavier
16:17 Wuzzy ah
16:17 twoelk in the old versions simply the number of servers was counted
16:17 Wuzzy and where is the raw data?
16:18 Wuzzy how was the data collected?
16:18 twoelk forgot, ask sfan5 :-D
16:18 twoelk its data from the server list
16:19 Wuzzy Calinou: I don't know if moreblocks is ready for release. But so far I have not found *serious* issues for a long time. I might need more playtesting.
16:20 Wuzzy Calinou: Before releasing 1.0.0, you should definitely add screenshot.png (3:2 PNG)
16:21 Calinou ok
16:21 Calinou Wuzzy: which dimensions are preferred? 300×200?
16:21 Calinou I will try making a cool banner :p
16:21 Wuzzy yes
16:22 Wuzzy but it can be larger
16:22 Calinou 600×400 then
16:22 Wuzzy just keep the aspect ratio
16:22 Calinou so that Retina displays are fine with it
16:22 Wuzzy but make sure it is a *screenshot* primarily, please
16:22 Calinou ah, it must be a screenshot?
16:22 Calinou which kind of screenshot would it be?
16:23 Wuzzy in-game of course
16:23 Wuzzy i suggest to place your blocks all over the place so that as much as possible blocks can be seen
16:23 Wuzzy take mtg_plus as example
16:24 Wuzzy or use texture pack screenshots as inspiration
16:24 Wuzzy Calinou: Guess my favourite block from moreblocks. you have 3 tries. :)
16:24 Calinou yeah but the blocks need to be recognizable
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16:24 Calinou I'll probably feature 5-6 blocks or so
16:24 Calinou super glow glass?
16:25 Wuzzy no
16:25 Calinou trap stone?
16:25 Wuzzy no
16:25 * twoelk votes for tiles
16:25 Calinou checkers?
16:25 Wuzzy no
16:25 Calinou :('
16:26 Wuzzy It's the cactus brick.
16:26 Calinou haha
16:26 Calinou back when Minetest was so poor in content that we had to use cactus blocks as a dye
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16:29 Wuzzy hmm I think moreblocks is stable. but please ask other people as well.
16:30 Wuzzy one thing which bothers me is the super glow glass. as far i know using light level 15 is considered bad practice by core devs atm
16:30 Wuzzy but i am not sure if it will be fixed later
16:31 Calinou it was changed to 14 IIRC, not sure
16:31 Wuzzy Calinou: Did you know that falling nodes can fall through and into trapstones?
16:32 Wuzzy i dont think Minetest has measures for much customization for blocks like these
16:32 twoelk wasn't the recipe for the stone with the decorative square on it conflicting with some other mod?
16:32 Wuzzy oh yeah, recipe conflicts. an endless source of trouble. :(
16:33 Wuzzy this is mostly minetest's fault because the crafting system is very unflexible
16:33 Wuzzy but i do not known of which stone are you talking of
16:33 Wuzzy Stone from Minetest Game can be “crafted” by smelting, i dont see conflicts
16:34 Wuzzy Calinou: You might want to run a crafting recipe checker on your mod.
16:34 Wuzzy Also, I recommend luacheck
16:35 Calinou https://github.com/minetest-mods/moreblocks/co​mmit/ab2c63270f9289de717ccaf0aa21f0b871b7bc78
16:35 Calinou yes, fixed
16:35 Wuzzy especially to avoid leaking globals
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16:36 Wuzzy I spotted one “leaked” global variable
16:36 Wuzzy its gui_slots in circular_saw.lua
16:36 Wuzzy or does gui_slots come from another mod? then its ok
16:36 Calinou I doubt it comes from another mod
16:37 Calinou problem is, should we make such changes close from a release? it might break things
16:37 Calinou or might break other mods
16:37 Wuzzy then it should be local. Mods should try to avoid polluting global namespace
16:37 twoelk uhm the stone crafted by putting 8 stones in the same pattern as crafting an oven. Might be resolved though. Was some protection mod iirc
16:38 sfan5 updated those stats -> http://wiki.minetest.net/File:Modsonservers.png
16:39 Wuzzy Calinou: Wow!!! moreblocks just hit rank #2
16:40 Wuzzy Calinou: I can recall a 4×4 receipe for quarter slabs. was it from moreblocks? or am I just mixing things up?
16:42 Wuzzy Calinou: OK, locale/template.txt is outdated, sorry
16:42 Wuzzy e.g. All-faces Jungle Tree is missing
16:42 Calinou intllib is dead anyway
16:43 twoelk sfan5: no irc, moreores and mobs? interesting
16:43 Wuzzy Calinou: No.
16:43 sfan5 i just deleted the .csv
16:43 sfan5 one second, twoelk
16:43 Wuzzy don't let the “0.1.0” in the forum thread deceive you.
16:43 Wuzzy developent actually happens. I have no idea why they dont release for YEARs... :(
16:44 Wuzzy afaik git version of intllib is fine
16:44 Calinou it's broken by design
16:44 Calinou translations should be done client-side
16:45 Calinou with user preference
16:45 Wuzzy yes, you are totally right.
16:45 Wuzzy i have posted an issue about this
16:45 Wuzzy But until this feature finally comes, people have already translations ready :-)
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16:46 Wuzzy intllib is fine for singleplayer. just dont use it on server
16:46 Wuzzy if mod translation appears, it may just need little work. in the best case, all you'd need to do (as modder) is to replace the intllib boilerplate
16:48 sfan5 twoelk: irc 20th, moreores 21th, mobs_animal (highest ranked) 86th
16:48 twoelk strange
16:50 Wuzzy sfan: What about hudbars and hbhunger?
16:50 twoelk the mobs used on servers must be much more fragmented among different mods than I thought
16:50 Wuzzy sfan5: What about hudbars and hbhunger?
16:51 Wuzzy sfan5: or do you even have the full list? :)
16:51 sfan5 hudbars 73th
16:52 sfan5 hbhunger 117th
16:52 sfan5 Wuzzy: here's the whole list https://kitsunemimi.pw/i/c30af56f2e825d33.csv
16:52 Wuzzy thx
16:53 Wuzzy twoelk: Yes mobs are extremely fragmented. try making a subgame with many different mobs from differents mods. its very hard
16:53 Wuzzy i hope people will stop forking entire mob apis and instead just extend existing apis
16:54 Calinou mobs should be in minetest_game, so that people stop making mob mods
16:54 Calinou :)
16:54 Wuzzy lol
16:54 Calinou seriously it's been 5 years we have a mod API
16:54 Wuzzy Minetest Game is not the answer to everythiing
16:54 Wuzzy Minetest first needs much improvement of entities
16:54 sfan5 well maybe we should just have one mobs mod that works nicely
16:54 Calinou *everyone* and their dog is complaining about the lack of mobs in minetest_game
16:54 sfan5 and other mob mods instead of reinventing the wheel depend on that
16:55 Wuzzy no, Minetest Game will not stop multiple mob apis from existing
16:55 Wuzzy different mobs apis have different goals, this is OK
16:55 Wuzzy what I just dislike is that people fork an entire API just for adding one mob and don't even change the API
16:56 Wuzzy the first step is a clear seperation of API and mobs
16:57 Wuzzy the earliest attempt was mobapi, but this mod got forgotten somehow
16:57 Wuzzy Luckily, now even Mobs Redo has a seperation.
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16:57 Wuzzy you can now just use the Mobs Redo API and are not forced to use the default mobs
16:57 Wuzzy this is good
16:58 Wuzzy but the more serious problem is engine support
16:58 jin_xi lol, as if it was possible to have a mob mod working nicely ^
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16:58 sfan5 what's the engine missing?
16:58 Calinou more optimization :P
16:58 Krock and kittens
16:58 Calinou more prediction possibilities
16:58 Calinou (knockback…)
16:59 Wuzzy there need to be many engine improvements before decent mobs become even possible. First of all, entities are very buggy, especially at high speeds. collision boxes cannot be rotated. there is no knockback
16:59 Wuzzy yeah, and more prediction possibilities, right
16:59 Calinou rotated collision boxes make no sense
16:59 Calinou cylinder boxes would though
16:59 Calinou but cylinder boxes are not really needed
16:59 Calinou this is a voxel game, not ARMA 3
16:59 Krock does irrlicht even have native support for round shapes?
16:59 Wuzzy what about cars?
16:59 Calinou I think so
16:59 jin_xi Krock: wut
16:59 jin_xi ofc
16:59 Calinou we're talking mobs here
16:59 Calinou not cars
17:00 Calinou mobs don't even need to collide with other mobs or players, see Minecraft
17:00 Wuzzy cars are implemented as entities, of ccourse
17:00 Calinou a simple "push out" mechanic can be provided though
17:00 Krock lol, then it's simply not implemented into Minetest. Open an issue!!!!
17:00 Wuzzy i dont care about minecraft
17:00 Wuzzy IIRC for all points i mentioned there are issues
17:01 Calinou make your own voxel game with Godot :]
17:01 jin_xi an idea i had in the back of my head now for a while is this: let mt create a second, simpler mesh which only cares about solidness of nodes and is optimized for use with collision detection for mobs and particles and the like
17:01 Calinou so few new open source game projects nowadays :(
17:01 Wuzzy OK lets throw years worth of work away and start at 0. lol
17:02 Calinou jin_xi: possible, but not in the spirit of a voxel game
17:02 jin_xi why not?
17:02 jin_xi that mesh follows the nodes of the 'real' one
17:02 Calinou also such boxes can't be rotated by design
17:02 Calinou there's a big problem if you start rotating boxes according to player/entity input
17:02 Wuzzy Calinou: We have meshnodes. Sacrilege!!! Heresy1!!1
17:02 Calinou a player might penetrate an entity's box and inversely…
17:02 Krock Wuzzy, minetest is already 0.  :P
17:02 Calinou it's up for people to use meshnodes right, Wuzzy :P
17:02 Wuzzy mini-lol
17:03 Wuzzy hmmm what may help to clear up the mobs jungle is to write down a list of mods and dependencies
17:03 jin_xi i just think it would be nice. actually i should look at it again as i already have it working for particles but so far have only generated such collision meshes on demand
17:03 Wuzzy i think some people already did in the wiki. the page is just outdated...
17:04 jin_xi but maybe it would be simple enough to just do that when genning meshes anyway
17:04 Wuzzy i think if i would implement new mobs, i would just use Mobs Redo's API.
17:04 Wuzzy but i am not sure yet.
17:04 jin_xi this would mean you could use irrlichts collision detection, which works nice and for all shapes and meshes
17:04 Calinou Wuzzy: a well-put voxel game could make Minetest well obsolete actually
17:05 Calinou the "melting pot" aspect of Minetest is often criticized :P
17:05 jin_xi well mt melts my pot for shure
17:05 Wuzzy Minetest does not neccessary mean melting pot. it depends on what the community does with it.
17:06 Wuzzy create a carefully designed subgame and ignore all existing mods. it is possible already
17:06 Wuzzy :P
17:07 Wuzzy I think the “melting pot” criticism does not really apply
17:08 Calinou the user interface of Minetest leaves a lot to be desired though, most of it is C++ :(
17:08 Calinou compare this to modern proprietary games
17:08 Wuzzy yes, the UI sucks ass
17:08 Wuzzy but "it's C++" is not an argument
17:08 Calinou Doomsday has excellent UI, it's C++
17:09 Calinou but in Minetest, have fun getting your PRs merged :)
17:09 Calinou Doomsday has a leader, Minetest doesn't, too
17:09 PureTryOut[m] Amadin: about the # in loops: putting # in front of a table gives the size back. so in loops it is used to make sure the loop goes as far as the list goes, and not any further
17:10 PureTryOut[m] Calinou: the interface is in Lua though
17:10 twoelk maybe all old one mob mods should be converted for mobs-redo (such as santa) and the old mods chucked into the old mods bin, eh area.
17:10 PureTryOut[m] sure it's in the core instead of in a mod, but it's Lua
17:10 Wuzzy one big problem I have with the Minetest community and Minetest itself that I feel like usability is greatly ignored or even frowned upon.
17:10 Wuzzy It seems Minetest gravitates towards developers instead of actual players
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17:10 twoelk and then the more complicated stuff of the better mobs mods added to mobs-redo
17:11 PureTryOut[m] Wuzzy: I agree :/
17:11 Wuzzy twoelk: good idea, but this implies that Mobs Redo is the best mobs mod. I have not evaulated all mobs mods so far. But nobody is stopping you to convert. :)
17:11 Calinou PureTryOut[m]: the GUI itself (theming) is done in C++
17:11 Calinou Irrlicht doesn't offer a lot in its default GUI system sadly
17:11 PureTryOut[m] that's why I think something like the main menu should be done in mods, a UI mod perhaps. so that other developers can make it user-friendly, instead of having to edit the core itself
17:11 twoelk then a nice api docu written and an attack on mt-core started bashing the mobs api at all devs
17:12 PureTryOut[m] Calinou: huh idk then
17:12 Calinou <Wuzzy> one big problem I have with the Minetest community and Minetest itself that I feel like usability is greatly ignored or even frowned upon.
17:12 Calinou hence: make your own
17:12 Calinou I'm sure it would be worth the effort actually, judging the multiplayer Minetest userbase :P
17:12 Wuzzy if i remember there are some C++ libraries for easy GUIs
17:12 jin_xi enjoy your wontadd
17:12 Wuzzy mygui for example
17:12 Wuzzy hahahhhahahahaha
17:12 Calinou Wuzzy: they're either ultra bloated or too limited
17:12 Wuzzy Sad :-(
17:13 PureTryOut[m] Calinou: create your own :D
17:13 Wuzzy minetests formspec system needs more widgets
17:13 Calinou PureTryOut[m]: I have game development plans with Godot, so maybe
17:13 Krock Wuzzy, hehe.. thumbs war in pull #4703
17:13 Wuzzy I think we could write 10000 sentences starting with "Minetest needs" xd
17:13 Wuzzy unsurprisingly for a “0.” version
17:14 PureTryOut[m] lol
17:14 PureTryOut[m] Minetest needs to give mods the ability to listen to keypresses
17:14 Wuzzy already possible. kinda
17:14 PureTryOut[m] then implement the default controls in a mod, and move the button naming issue to there :p
17:14 Wuzzy omg NO!
17:14 Calinou yeah, there's also the problem of forever 0.x
17:15 Calinou I'd also actually assume the Minecraft clone aspect
17:15 Hijiri revolution is permanent
17:15 Wuzzy one thing I really hate is the “it can be done in a mod, therefore no core support” argument xD
17:15 Krock Hijiri, we need your thumbs in pull 4703
17:16 Wuzzy it is sometimes justified but i think it is used often as a lame-ass excuse
17:16 Calinou there could be a compatible fork of Minetest
17:16 PureTryOut[m] well some stuff should  be done in a mod tbh, but right now I find it vague what should and what not
17:16 Calinou like Freeminer in its early days
17:17 PureTryOut[m] Calinou: https://github.com/avamander/minefix
17:17 Calinou but it's always tricky to maintain an up-to-date fork
17:17 PureTryOut[m] Minitest was promising originally, but abandoned
17:17 Wuzzy Oh god, so many thunbs up for Aux1
17:18 Wuzzy Please please please dont rename the Use key to Aux1. What have I started?
17:18 PureTryOut[m] I'd love Minetest to be a perfect Minecraft clone
17:18 PureTryOut[m] Wuzzy: I couldn't care less what it's called in code, but in user interface, god no Aux1
17:18 Wuzzy Yes.
17:18 Calinou yeah, "Aux1" means nothing
17:18 PureTryOut[m] for gods sake developers, stop trying to make this game nonappealing to non-technical players
17:19 PureTryOut[m] s/game/engine, otherwise devs will get angry with me :p
17:19 Wuzzy Welcome into my world
17:19 Wuzzy Here's the issue: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4703
17:19 Wuzzy oops, PR
17:19 Calinou PureTryOut[m]: the advanced settings menu is bad too, and basic settings menu lacks things like mouse sensitivity or display gamma
17:19 Calinou (which Minecraft has! and makes perfect sense, even Quake 1 had those)
17:19 PureTryOut[m] yap
17:20 PureTryOut[m] that's why I would love client-side modding to be merged. I hope it eventually gets support for changing the interface from a mod, so we can fix it ourselves :p
17:20 Wuzzy why is the advanced settigns menu bad? it has some bugs but in general I think it is good
17:20 Wuzzy it was a long needed addition
17:20 twoelk nope, please no mc clone, steal everything good from mc and create something better with all the goodies from WOW, GTA,  Die Siedler, Chess and (insert own favorite game)
17:21 Wuzzy Yes :D
17:21 PureTryOut[m] wait is advanced settings different from normal settings?>
17:21 Wuzzy "steal" the good stuff, ignore the bullshit
17:21 Wuzzy and maybe add own ideas
17:21 Wuzzy thats how many games are actually made XD
17:21 Calinou Minecraft has a lot of good ideas honestly
17:21 PureTryOut[m] I'm gonna "steal" everything from Minecraft. using Minetest people can just extend that :p
17:22 PureTryOut[m] so yeah Calinou if you're any good with Lua, come help us out https://github.com/avamander/minefix :D
17:22 Calinou not really good in Lua, sorry
17:22 PureTryOut[m] you can learn though!
17:22 Calinou I brought Godot up because it's very easy to use
17:22 Calinou it has its own language, GDScript, which is Python-like
17:22 Calinou but with 200 lines of code you can create full games
17:22 PureTryOut[m] meh I like Lua :p
17:23 Calinou writing game logic in C++ makes little sense today :p
17:23 Calinou lots of devs do it in C# now with Unity for example
17:23 Wuzzy what is the argument for that?
17:23 Calinou ease of writing?
17:23 PureTryOut[m] ugh C#
17:23 Calinou ease of debugging
17:23 PureTryOut[m] well at least .NET core seems a bit promising, but god no Mono
17:23 Calinou recent Mono is ok
17:24 Calinou it's MIT-licensed now
17:24 Wuzzy but its C# and .NET, this means trouble for GNU/Linux
17:24 PureTryOut[m] in my experience Mono works like shit on Linux systems
17:24 Hijiri when will we get a decent game engine for haskell
17:24 Calinou all the .NET + Linux problems seem made up to me…
17:24 Wuzzy I don't trust Mono, Microsoft has its fingers in it
17:24 Wuzzy no, I speak from experience
17:24 PureTryOut[m] and yeah screw Microsoft :p
17:24 Calinou still, Godot is going to support C# optionally and that's a good decision overall
17:24 PureTryOut[m] it's probably part of their EEE technique
17:24 twoelk PureTryOut[m]:  go here "http://wiki.minetest.net/List_of_Subgames"  press the sorting on the "type" column and scroll to mc-clones for severall attempts of mc-clones
17:24 Calinou C++ is not, though, it seems
17:24 Wuzzy mono is shit. if you want cross-platform support, avoid .NET and C#. sorry but its true :(
17:25 Krock s/Microsoft/Micro$oft/
17:25 Calinou Wuzzy: Java is better then?
17:25 Calinou well, we could bind Go to Godot
17:25 Hijiri with java you don't need to emulate windows syscalls at least
17:25 Wuzzy In terms of cross-platform support, Java is definitely better.
17:25 Calinou Java's font rendering on Linux is not something you want to see for example
17:25 Calinou or the GUI in general
17:26 Calinou also, Java is Oracle :)
17:26 Calinou and Go is Google :)
17:26 Wuzzy i dislike this “let's all program in <generic new hipster programming language> because its cool”  thinking
17:26 PureTryOut[m] twoelk: thanks! interesting
17:26 twoelk I'm for NQC
17:26 Wuzzy I call it “Hype-driven development”. :D
17:27 Hijiri haskell has been around since the early 90s
17:27 Calinou Wuzzy: did you ever write C++ and found it pleasing?
17:27 twoelk its all about bricks anyways
17:27 Hijiri let's all program in that
17:27 Calinou I doubt it, not even C++14 makes it nice to write
17:27 Wuzzy I see it like this: Use the programming language which suits your needs best and has resonable support (i.e. not obscure, no licensing/compat issues, etc)
17:28 Calinou still, any statically-typed, threadable language could be bound to Godot
17:28 Calinou this includes Rust, Go, Nim, Java, C#
17:28 Wuzzy Every programming lanaguages has its quicks. part of learning programming is getting used to them
17:28 Calinou writing game logic in a low-level language is more often than not self-hurting
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17:29 Wuzzy I heard Unity3D is not the only game engine. xD
17:29 Calinou well, UE4 uses C++, a lot of people bitch about it and want something simpler
17:29 Calinou which is why Unreal.js is a thing
17:30 Wuzzy I think C++ is a reasonable programming language. Java, too.
17:30 Calinou complete lack of a package manager = reasonable to you? :/
17:31 Wuzzy what are you talking about?
17:31 Calinou there is no established standard for C++ package management. that sucks a lot
17:31 Wuzzy a package manager is not part of programming languages
17:31 Calinou it is part of its ecosystem
17:31 Calinou and it's often make or break for people, see npm :)
17:31 Wuzzy i would count this under "auxaliarry tools"
17:31 Calinou the tooling is pretty important in choosing a language :P
17:32 Wuzzy well, if it doesnt suit your needs, dont use it. :P
17:32 Wuzzy as I said, use the language which best suits your needs
17:32 Wuzzy also, what exactly do u mean with "package manger" in regards to programming language?
17:32 Calinou which is, not C++
17:33 Calinou something that installs dependencies for you when you want to compile a library or a software
17:33 Wuzzy something like Pacman, APT, .deb packages?
17:33 Calinou (no, apt-get is not one of them)
17:33 Calinou (because Windows)
17:33 Wuzzy 0install?
17:33 Wuzzy why do packagae managers have to be language-specific, anyway?
17:33 Calinou MSYS2 is the closest, along with Cygwin, but that doesn't support MSVC
17:34 Wuzzy for script languages i can almost understand it
17:34 * twoelk wished someone made a Minetest plugin for this : https://bitbucket.org/lloigor/eihort
17:34 Calinou people in system package managers aren't reactive enough, that's why
17:34 Wuzzy Calinou: For Debian, true. For Arch Linux: not really true. :=)
17:34 Calinou not everyone uses Arch, sorry
17:35 Wuzzy yeah. it sucks that Debian packages suck so much
17:35 Wuzzy its more a community problem
17:36 Wuzzy anyway, i have learned 1 thing: when entering a project, it is best to just deal with the programming languages which are already used and stop bitching about how your faaviourite langauge is superiour :D
17:36 Wuzzy The only exception is PHP, of course. :D
17:36 Calinou that's true
17:36 Calinou I find PHP is perfectly acceptable in what it does
17:36 Calinou it's easy to write terrible PHP, but you can write good PHP too
17:36 BrandonReese Come on, why is everybody downing PHP :)
17:37 Calinou it's also relatively fast
17:37 Calinou (PHP 7)
17:37 Calinou (and soon, PHP 8 with a JIT)
17:38 twoelk a minetest plugin for this https://github.com/Captain-Chaos/WorldPainter
17:38 twoelk would be nice
17:38 fireglow sounds nice
17:39 twoelk as minetest lacks possabilities of designing maps
17:39 Wuzzy every language has its flaws, but PHP is exceptional for being fractally broken and poorly designed.
17:39 Wuzzy https://wiki.theory.org/YourLa​nguageSucks#PHP_sucks_because
17:39 Wuzzy http://www.phpsadness.com/
17:40 Wuzzy :D
17:40 Calinou ok, what do you suggest then?
17:40 Calinou JavaScript where everything breaks every 3 months?
17:40 Calinou Python where you can bake your coffee while the pages load?
17:40 Calinou Ruby where the last developer in your team died?
17:40 Calinou :|
17:40 Wuzzy xD
17:40 Calinou there is no real alternative
17:40 Calinou Go/Rust have a too small community in Web development, while fast, it's not practical either
17:41 Hijiri haskell for web dev imo
17:41 Wuzzy haskell is a cool language. i personally like it. what makes me sad that there are not many libs to choose from. especially for game development :(
17:42 Calinou I don't get why people like Haskell, really
17:42 Hijiri yeah, if you want to do games in haskell you will probably be stuck with some bindings that are at best a step up from the C bindings
17:42 Calinou it's the vim of programming languages
17:43 Hijiri I can feel clever and program in line noise
17:43 Hijiri oh wait, perl has that niche already
17:44 Wuzzy Hedgewars is funny. It is programmed in 4 languages. XD
17:44 Wuzzy Haskell for server, C++ (with Qt) for the main menu, Pascal for the game engine and Lua for scripting
17:44 Hijiri I think haskell makes the barrier to abstracting things out very low, and also it's not dynamically typed
17:44 Hijiri refactoring is usually very nice
17:46 Wuzzy Anyway. Just because Minetest is C++ does not mean making a good GUI is impossible
17:46 Wuzzy btw is mygui really bloated? i dont know much about it
17:46 Wuzzy but probably no chance to convince devs of using mygui anyway xD
17:48 * twoelk mentions XUL and runs to watch from a distance what happens
17:49 jin_xi crickets
17:52 Calinou Wuzzy: MyGUI is part of the OGRE family, so yeah
17:52 Krock ogre is an asshole
17:52 Krock sorry, offtopic :3
17:52 twoelk well his best friend is an ass, so ...
17:53 Krock twoelk, "ogre you asshole" is a music group
17:53 Krock google finds things I never knew :3
17:54 twoelk well the other does shreckliche music .D
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20:27 hoodedice MinetestBot!
20:27 MinetestBot hoodedice!
20:27 hoodedice sfan5, where is Minetestbot's chan?
20:28 sfan5 ##minetestbot
20:28 garywhite MinetestBot!
20:28 MinetestBot garywhite!
20:34 DI3HARD139 Is anyone else having issues with the updated IRC mod crashing server instance?
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20:40 PinkKitty hi
20:41 PinkKitty how do ichange my nickname
20:42 sfan5 on IRC? using /nick your_new_nick_here
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21:14 xordspar0_ Is it possible to render blocks in different shapes (e.g. tetrahedrons) with a mod?
21:16 thePalindrome Yeah
21:16 thePalindrome You just need to use the "mesh" render type
21:16 PureTryOut[m] or nodebox
21:18 xordspar0_ Sweet, thanks!
21:18 MinetestBot [git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest_game: Add fuel slot to furnace listring d92034e https://git.io/vXmy3 (2016-10-31T14:17:38-07:00)
21:18 Calinou nodeboxes don't allow non-AABB shapes
21:18 Calinou (axis-aligned bounding box)
21:18 Calinou so, use a meshnode
21:18 Calinou and supply your own mesh in .obj, .b3d, .x, or .md2 format
21:19 Calinou (preferred format is .b3d, then .obj, then .x
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21:19 PureTryOut[m] ooh different type of shape sorry ;)
21:22 MinetestBot [git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest_game: Xpanes: Use opaque texture for top+bottom of iron bar (#1357) 56d6eae https://git.io/vXmSe (2016-10-31T14:20:26-07:00)
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21:40 sofar xordspar0_: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=12005
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22:49 dat_ Minetest complains regarding 'Failed to load and run /home/thomp/.minetest/mods​/mobf_core/mobf/init.lua'. However, the file is present and readable. I'm a bit mystified. Being new to minecraft, I'd be grateful for any suggestions...
22:51 thePalindrome Does it mention any syntax errors?
22:51 dat_ ...belay that last request for suggestions... I see that minetest provides a stack trace w/some details regarding the issue...
22:51 dat_ Apologies...
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22:56 PureTryOut[m] s/minecraft/Minetest
22:58 transhuman hi! will minetest run in a browser?
22:58 sfan5 no
22:59 sfan5 dat_: usually when you get that message the problem is the and run part, not the load part
23:03 thePalindrome transhuman: It's *possible* to use asm.js or something of that ilk, but I *highly* recommend you don't
23:03 thePalindrome Minecraft's "browser mode" was actually the same as the "desktop mode"
23:03 transhuman ok thanks for your help
23:04 thePalindrome Any other questions?
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23:12 dat_ sfan5: thanks - you hit the nail on the head
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23:49 twoelk is the voxelands website down?

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