Time Nick Message 00:04 OldCoder _Megaf, Hi 00:04 OldCoder You should focus for the weekend on the IRL matter 00:04 OldCoder In 2 days things may change a lot 00:04 OldCoder After that, let's discuss the fork if you like 00:04 PR4530 Dwarf Fortress 00:05 _Megaf OldCoder: I must admit that you are correct. But I'm so fed up at the moment 00:06 OldCoder Well, fed up is not best time to decide things. Relax, focus on what you must focus on 00:06 OldCoder For 1.5 days, then look at plans 00:07 OldCoder I think you should consider, if you must, not a "fork", but a similar program, in 'C' (not C++) that borrows some of the code 00:07 OldCoder Much simpler, something easier to work with 00:07 _Megaf OldCoder: I can not code, I'm not a developer. I am a server admin and a player 00:07 OldCoder But not really intended to replace; most forks die 00:07 OldCoder Quickly 00:07 OldCoder Hm 00:07 OldCoder Then what is the fork talk about? 00:07 OldCoder You were 00:07 OldCoder Simply voicing 00:08 _Megaf I have friends that can code :) 00:08 OldCoder Well, see if they'd like a new project 00:08 _Megaf and they are familiar with Minetest 00:08 OldCoder But there is no need to be on negative terms with the current one 00:08 _Megaf and we are actually implementing Python in the future 00:08 OldCoder Regardless, you know that you should be asleep now 00:08 OldCoder As Sunday 00:08 OldCoder is slotted for something else IRL, correct? 00:08 _Megaf OldCoder: you are correct, heading to bed 00:08 OldCoder Relax, then 00:08 OldCoder If you do shut down 00:09 OldCoder Transfer your world(s) to me. But perhaps you'll feel differently 00:09 OldCoder After Monday. Either way, things 00:09 OldCoder might change 00:09 OldCoder 00:09 OldCoder Good night and good luck next week 00:09 _Megaf OldCoder: Megaf Server will stay property of Megaf forever. If I do fork Minetest, Megaf Server will be migrated to my fork 00:09 _Megaf s/forever/until I die 00:10 OldCoder "Property" is an interesting concept for this sort of thing. I'll be here in the U.S. afternoon tomorrow to talk about Monday if you like. 00:10 OldCoder I can't necessarily help but you can count on me as a sounding board 00:10 _Megaf [01:09:48] Good night and good luck next week 00:10 OldCoder Yep 00:10 _Megaf Thank you OldCoder 00:10 OldCoder See me tomorrow 00:10 _Megaf Good night 00:10 OldCoder If you'd like 00:10 OldCoder to discuss scenarios for the meeting 00:10 OldCoder o/ 00:10 _Megaf \o 00:10 * _Megaf closes the window 00:11 OldCoder There is something else he 00:11 OldCoder is focused on... the split or fork will not be immediate 00:11 OldCoder 00:13 PR4530 OldCoder: can you share that tsundere.fi world, I want to walk on it in singleplay, if it is not big... 00:14 OldCoder PR4530, yes except we don't know which file it *is*. I had to suspend work on it for the Summer but will resume it. 00:14 OldCoder Some of the worlds aren't even in modern format; I'd started to work out how to convert them 00:14 PR4530 it is either tsundere.fi or kray's server 00:14 OldCoder I know 00:14 OldCoder He didn't store the files with recognizable names 00:14 OldCoder There are many files and bits and pieces 00:15 OldCoder If I knew which one it was I'd boot it now 00:15 OldCoder How about a deal 00:15 PR4530 there was converter somewhere, and minetest can read old format iirc, but ok, good night! 00:15 OldCoder He is too busy to... 00:15 OldCoder Wait 00:15 OldCoder Proposed deal: 00:15 OldCoder One part of the delay is that I have nobody to help me interpret what I find 00:15 PR4530 that world is in older format 00:15 OldCoder If I return to this this month or next month will you tour what I set up 00:15 OldCoder Yes, I can run it 00:15 OldCoder Observe: 00:16 OldCoder http://minetest.org/happyfort.jpg 00:16 OldCoder http://minetest.org/maybecat.jpg 00:16 OldCoder The oldest surviving structures in Minetest. Fall 2010. 00:16 OldCoder If I return to this this month or next month will you tour what I set up and tell me what I'm looking at? 00:17 OldCoder The preceding structures were in "sectors" format 00:17 OldCoder Obscure indeed 00:17 PR4530 right 00:17 OldCoder O.K., deal 00:17 OldCoder I will try to get back to it 00:17 OldCoder Must focus on IRL now and it is 3am there right? 00:18 PR4530 right, good night, have fun 00:18 OldCoder o/ 08:30 Cyborg42 Hi all! How do I set English language on non-English system? 08:30 Krock language = en 08:31 Krock or delete the locale directory 08:31 Cyborg42 Where do I put this? 08:32 Krock into your minetest.conf file 08:32 Krock or the locale directory into your trash bin 08:32 Krock depends what you want to do 08:32 Krock (rename would be possible too) 08:36 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Rui-Minetest -> 03minetest/minetest: Remove unused parameter of GUIVolumeChange 13b3fc133 https://git.io/vPB3h (152016-10-09T10:35:51+02:00) 08:38 Cyborg42 Krock: Thank you! Conf file works fine. 08:38 Krock !next 08:38 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next! 08:39 Cyborg42 Wonder why nobody thought of creating empty "en" dir and having it in the UI too. 08:46 Krock that's another one-liner to fix :/ 08:54 agaran Hello 08:54 Krock hi agaran 08:54 Krock Cyborg42, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4606/files 08:54 agaran anyone knows if there is more recent protector than https://github.com/Zeg9/minetest-protect/ ? 08:55 Krock protector redo, perhaps? 08:55 Krock https://github.com/tenplus1/protector 08:55 agaran thx :) 08:55 Krock !next 08:55 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next! 08:56 Cyborg42 Krock: nice 08:58 agaran that was the one I was looking for 08:58 Krock ^^ 09:03 agaran bridges mod for mg_valley.. yay 13:17 MinetestBot 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: Environment cleanup 1370f104b https://git.io/vPBBj (152016-10-09T15:17:10+02:00) 13:19 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Fix small typo (std:cerr -> std::cerr) 1309945ca https://git.io/vPBRf (152016-10-09T15:19:35+02:00) 13:51 agaran !seen paramat 13:51 MinetestBot agaran: paramat was last seen at 2016-10-07 20:42:31 UTC on #minetest 13:52 Krock you have more chances in -project 13:52 agaran ah 13:52 Krock or in -dev ;) 13:52 agaran I am too noobish for -dev 14:34 MinetestBot 02[git] 04nerzhul -> 03minetest/minetest: A little cleanup since previous commit 131b45086 https://git.io/vPBu6 (152016-10-09T16:31:43+02:00) 15:54 MrJones silly question: if I just install the game and launch singleplayer, is there anything else I'm supposed to do for enemies and animals? 15:54 MrJones like, would I need mods for that? or is that in the game and I just didn't enable it 15:56 sfan5 you need mods for that 15:57 MrJones is there like some sort of standard mod pack? like for someone new to the game who just wants some reasonable base functionality 15:59 sfan5 i don't know of any 15:59 sfan5 ufortunately you need to find the mods you want for yourself 16:00 sfan5 *unfortunately 16:54 agaran MrJones: easiest way may be to wander thru several servers and looking what mods they have, then trying them on local machine via singleplayer 16:59 Out`Of`Control 25 GB map turn into 2.4 GB map 17:00 Krock Out`Of`Control, how? 17:00 Out`Of`Control Krock: delete all below -200 17:00 Out`Of`Control but i need more tests 17:01 sfan5 but people can also build bases below -200 you know 17:01 Out`Of`Control sfan5: i know 17:01 Krock add a rule that they should not build anything there :P 17:01 * agaran routinelly builds below -1k if possible... 17:01 Out`Of`Control i am only testing 17:02 Out`Of`Control sfan5: you can't protect land under 200, i can save some with WE 17:02 sfan5 you can't? why not 17:03 agaran landrush I think does not go below -200 17:03 Out`Of`Control maybe i change it to -500 will see 17:03 Out`Of`Control but its 10x smaller wow 17:04 Out`Of`Control "Name-ID mapping version not supported!" corupted map chunk? 17:05 sfan5 yes 17:05 Out`Of`Control ok thanks 17:06 Out`Of`Control i try many tools on this map. something whent wrong, but its a copy 17:07 agaran Hi IhrFussel 17:08 sfan5 what kind of tools try to modify the serialized map data? 17:08 IhrFussel Hey there...I decided to do the following: Create a new map with the exact same seed, save the most important buildings via WE and paste them into the new map at the same location 17:10 Out`Of`Control anyone know an easy way to tweak mod_travelnet.data file? 17:10 agaran sfan5: silly idea, what if I load some mapblock with voxelmanip, save which each node is, replace those nodes with clean-meta-if-should-be-empty node, then apply VM, then revert, would it clean metadata in map? 17:11 IhrFussel But before I start with this extremely difficult task I have some questions: 1. Will the same seed GUARANTEE the exact same map generation? 2. Can I specify a seed WITHOUT UI? 17:11 agaran yes I know it will stress minetest core but I want to avoid chopping there directly.. 17:11 agaran IhrFussel: seed = in config 17:11 sfan5 IhrFussel: 1 not exactly the same i think 2 yes there's a setting, what did you think the main menu sets? 17:11 agaran IhrFussel: in map_meta.txt you have seed = ... 17:12 sfan5 you can also modify the seed *number* in map_meta.txt 17:12 IhrFussel sfan5, how much can it differ from the original? 17:13 sfan5 agaran: are you talking about https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/3a57e525009ade2aa039b0bab33e4b10eda36bf4 ? 17:13 agaran wow, great, gonna git pull then 17:13 sfan5 IhrFussel: if it does then it will probably be small details that differ 17:13 agaran sfan5: thanks ALOT :) 17:14 sfan5 yeah no 17:14 sfan5 agaran: 1) you probably can't fix this with vmanip anyway 2) just applying this commit won't fix your map 17:14 IhrFussel sfan5, okay so it SHOULD be possible to have overall the same map and players will not notice differences? 17:14 sfan5 tl;dr make sure to read the extended commit description 17:14 sfan5 IhrFussel: dunno try it :) 17:14 sfan5 i can't predict which differences your players would notice 17:15 agaran sfan5: I know it wont fix, but should reduce -some- junk in there, VM to replace nodes with ones I want (that clean metadata) 17:15 agaran just to do like default:stone -> my cleaner node => default stone replacement.. 17:15 agaran stone, air shall have no meta 17:15 sfan5 they can have meta too 17:16 agaran then I amnot aware about reason they might.. 17:24 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Nestorfish -> 03minetest/minetestmapper: Improvements to Node name/ID mapping code 13c45965e https://git.io/vPBoZ (152016-10-09T19:22:28+02:00) 18:08 ShadowNinja BTW, we just got featured on the front page of hacker news, we've gotten over 2000 today uniques so far. 18:08 ShadowNinja s/today uniques/uniques today/ 18:08 red-001 link? 18:09 sfan5 huh 18:09 ShadowNinja https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12670310 18:13 ShadowNinja Analytics: http://i.imgur.com/2j14Pt4.png 18:14 Krock wow nice 18:14 sfan5 oh right we have analytics 18:15 Fixer_ ycombinator effect 18:17 sfan5 >One of the best 'downloads' page I've seen 18:17 sfan5 i wonder what makes it so good 18:17 swift110 hey all 18:19 Krock Perhaps the direct and large written links :) 18:20 sfan5 or maybe the fact that we say GNU/Linux instead of Linux 18:23 red-001 when will mod security be enabled by default? 18:24 sfan5 i'm sure it already is 18:24 ShadowNinja Surely soon (tm). 18:25 red-001 so never? 18:25 ShadowNinja sfan5: Nope, still disabled: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/defaultsettings.cpp#L304 18:26 ShadowNinja red-001: Probably soon, we just haven't got to it. Maybe I'll make a pull now. 18:26 sfan5 what really 18:26 sfan5 well why is it not enabled 18:28 ShadowNinja sfan5: It was left off for testing and we never got to enabling it I guess. I was running it on my mini-world server without problems. I think player_textures is just about the only mod still incompatible with it, but there's a PR to fix it. 18:29 Fixer_ sfan5: o.O 18:29 sfan5 i see 18:29 Fixer_ sfan5: download pages THAT MUCH FUCKED UP so minetest one is actually good? 18:29 sfan5 idk 18:32 ShadowNinja I think one of the things that makes our DL page good is that it provides some information for beginers and gives you simple install links for a bunch of platforms. 18:32 agaran paramat: Hello, can I have question(s) about intersecting mod? 18:33 paramat yes 18:33 agaran paramat: is there some setting to prevent lightore to be generated just under surface shallow enough that it shines thru dirt? 18:35 paramat you want it deeper so it doesn't shine through corners? 18:37 agaran yep, especially looking funny on deserts 18:37 agaran I looked at code but I didn't found how to adjust that.. 18:37 paramat ah, you want it to start at a deeper y value 18:37 agaran and this mod + valleys mg is cpu-killer 18:37 agaran (it alone on v6 mapgen was reporting 500-900ms per mapblock) 18:38 agaran ok, I'll try tweaking :) 18:38 paramat hang on .. 18:38 paramat https://github.com/paramat/intersecting/blob/master/init.lua#L254 18:39 paramat if y < LUXDEPTH and math.random() < LUXCHA then 18:40 paramat easy really 18:40 agaran and set LUXDEPTH to desired value? 18:40 paramat yes or add it as a parameter to top of file 18:41 paramat the mod is a heavy user of noise, all that 3D noise 18:41 agaran yes I felt that :) 18:41 agaran but tunnels are awesome 18:41 paramat it still needs one more noise memory use optimisation 18:42 paramat you might get OOM crash with LuaJIT 18:43 agaran I was testing it only a little bit, but caverns that get easilly several hundreds nodes down.. neat 18:45 ShadowNinja sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4614 18:45 _Megaf wait, you mean Minetest uses less memory without Luajit? 18:45 paramat LuaJIT has a very low mwmory use limit ~2GB 18:48 ShadowNinja LuaJIT is basically 32-bit limited, so you may be able to get up to 4GiB of memory, but it will realistically be much less. Non-JIT Lua is also *MUCH* faster at allocating a lot of memory (possibly because LuaJIT uses an old and slow GC). 18:50 _Megaf so on a server with lots of mods and mesecons and technic and pipeworks. What is best, JIT or non JIT? 18:50 _Megaf maybe LuaJIT could speed things up on CPU side and slow on memory side? 18:52 Out`Of`Control how compile with Non-JIT? 18:52 ShadowNinja _Megaf: LuaJIT probably still faster than Lua in most cases, it just has a few parts that are starting to fall behind Lua. 18:52 Out`Of`Control so minetest eat more ram 18:53 paramat because i dev lua mapgens i always use non-JIT 18:53 ShadowNinja We're still stuck on Lua 5.1 though, so the optimizations added in 5.2 and 5.3 don't really apply either unlesss you modify the build files. 18:55 Out`Of`Control DENABLE_LUAJIT=0 would eat more ram? 18:55 sfan5 it would make it possible to use more 18:55 Out`Of`Control cool, as i have too much free ram 18:56 sfan5 ok you misunderstood me 18:56 sfan5 it opens the possibility of using more 18:56 sfan5 it won't use more 18:56 Out`Of`Control ok thanks, will compile and compare 18:57 Out`Of`Control sfan5: will it stop crashes like lua out of ram? 18:57 Out`Of`Control i just wonder 18:57 sfan5 yes it would help in those cases 18:57 Out`Of`Control cool 19:13 ShadowNinja I wonder if we could catch those cases and print something about how you should try without LuaJIT. Otherwise the massage is quite confusing since you probably have plenty of memory left. 19:15 ShadowNinja Ravi is a promising modern alternative to LuaJIT, although I don't think it's particularly fast yet: https://ravilang.github.io/ 19:16 ShadowNinja It uses LLVM or libgccjit and has support for optional static typing for additional speedups. 19:17 sfan5 including the whole of llvm is pretty heavy though 19:19 Hawk777 Isn’t LLVM already used by some Linux video drivers to compile shaders? 19:20 Hawk777 So, not absurd to embed it. 19:37 ShadowNinja sfan5: There's also the libgccjit backend. And we definitely shouldn't just copy the whole thing into our source tree like we did with Lua 5.1. 19:42 Hawk777 Although http://the-ravi-programming-language.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ravi-jit-status.html seems to suggest it’s not quite ready for primetime yet (no coroutines, no infinite tail recursion, and not recommended to use C API). 21:01 red-001 is Jeija on irc? 21:01 Krock sometimes 21:01 Krock currently offline 21:02 red-001 ~seen jeija 21:02 ShadowBot red-001: I haven't seen jeija in #minetest. 21:02 red-001 ~seen Jeija 21:02 ShadowBot red-001: I saw Jeija in #minetest 2 days, 23 hours, 22 minutes, and 38 seconds ago saying "The curvature is implemented in shaders, yes. But the mechanics of the planet can only be implemented in the cpp code." 21:02 red-001 ~tell 21:02 ShadowBot red-001: tell 21:02 Krock !tell 21:02 MinetestBot Krock: Need a nickname... 21:03 red-001 nvm I will just write new documentation 21:10 red-001 what version of cc by sa does the dev wiki use? 21:14 Krock click on the link on the footer 21:14 Krock 3.0 21:15 red-001 why does it use a diffrent license then lua_api.txt? 21:17 Krock because creative commons is common for wikis 21:17 Krock thus, default 21:17 red-001 still it makes it harder to reuse documentation from lua_api.txt 21:19 red-001 ~tell Jeija I reformated documention written by you about HTTPFetchRequest that was in lua_api.txt (licensed under lgpl v2.1) and added it to the dev wiki (licensed under cc by sa). I hope this isn't a problem. 21:19 ShadowBot red-001: O.K.