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IRC log for #minetest, 2016-10-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 OldCoder _Megaf, Hi
00:04 OldCoder You should focus for the weekend on the IRL matter
00:04 OldCoder In 2 days things may change a lot
00:04 OldCoder After that, let's discuss the fork if you like
00:04 PR4530 Dwarf Fortress
00:05 _Megaf OldCoder: I must admit that you are correct. But I'm so fed up at the moment
00:06 OldCoder Well, fed up is not best time to decide things. Relax, focus on what you must focus on
00:06 OldCoder For 1.5 days, then look at plans
00:07 OldCoder I think you should consider, if you must, not a "fork", but a similar program, in 'C' (not C++) that borrows some of the code
00:07 OldCoder Much simpler, something easier to work with
00:07 _Megaf OldCoder: I can not code, I'm not a developer. I am a server admin and a player
00:07 OldCoder But not really intended to replace; most forks die
00:07 OldCoder Quickly
00:07 OldCoder Hm
00:07 OldCoder Then what is the fork talk about?
00:07 OldCoder You were
00:07 OldCoder Simply voicing
00:08 _Megaf I have friends that can code :)
00:08 OldCoder Well, see if they'd like a new project
00:08 _Megaf and they are familiar with Minetest
00:08 OldCoder But there is no need to be on negative terms with the current one
00:08 _Megaf and we are actually implementing Python in the future
00:08 OldCoder Regardless, you know that you should be asleep now
00:08 OldCoder As Sunday
00:08 OldCoder is slotted for something else IRL, correct?
00:08 _Megaf OldCoder: you are correct, heading to bed
00:08 OldCoder Relax, then
00:08 OldCoder If you do shut down
00:09 OldCoder Transfer your world(s) to me. But perhaps you'll feel differently
00:09 OldCoder After Monday. Either way, things
00:09 OldCoder might change
00:09 OldCoder
00:09 OldCoder Good night and good luck next week
00:09 _Megaf OldCoder: Megaf Server will stay property of Megaf forever. If I do fork Minetest, Megaf Server will be migrated to my fork
00:09 _Megaf s/forever/until I die
00:10 OldCoder "Property" is an interesting concept for this sort of thing. I'll be here in the U.S. afternoon tomorrow to talk about Monday if you like.
00:10 OldCoder I can't necessarily help but you can count on me as a sounding board
00:10 _Megaf [01:09:48] <OldCoder> Good night and good luck next week
00:10 OldCoder Yep
00:10 _Megaf Thank you OldCoder
00:10 OldCoder See me tomorrow
00:10 _Megaf Good night
00:10 OldCoder If you'd like
00:10 OldCoder to discuss scenarios for the meeting
00:10 OldCoder o/
00:10 _Megaf \o
00:10 * _Megaf closes the window
00:11 OldCoder There is something else he
00:11 OldCoder is focused on... the split or fork will not be immediate
00:11 OldCoder
00:13 PR4530 OldCoder: can you share that tsundere.fi world, I want to walk on it in singleplay, if it is not big...
00:14 OldCoder PR4530, yes except we don't know which file it *is*. I had to suspend work on it for the Summer but will resume it.
00:14 OldCoder Some of the worlds aren't even in modern format; I'd started to work out how to convert them
00:14 PR4530 it is either tsundere.fi or kray's server
00:14 OldCoder I know
00:14 OldCoder He didn't store the files with recognizable names
00:14 OldCoder There are many files and bits and pieces
00:15 OldCoder If I knew which one it was I'd boot it now
00:15 OldCoder How about a deal
00:15 PR4530 there was converter somewhere, and minetest can read old format iirc, but ok, good night!
00:15 OldCoder He is too busy to...
00:15 OldCoder Wait
00:15 OldCoder Proposed deal:
00:15 OldCoder One part of the delay is that I have nobody to help me interpret what I find
00:15 PR4530 that world is in older format
00:15 OldCoder If I return to this this month or next month will you tour what I set up
00:15 OldCoder Yes, I can run it
00:15 OldCoder Observe:
00:16 OldCoder http://minetest.org/happyfort.jpg
00:16 OldCoder http://minetest.org/maybecat.jpg
00:16 OldCoder The oldest surviving structures in Minetest. Fall 2010.
00:16 OldCoder If I return to this this month or next month will you tour what I set up and tell me what I'm looking at?
00:17 OldCoder The preceding structures were in "sectors" format
00:17 OldCoder Obscure indeed
00:17 PR4530 right
00:17 OldCoder O.K., deal
00:17 OldCoder I will try to get back to it
00:17 OldCoder Must focus on IRL now and it is 3am there right?
00:18 PR4530 right, good night, have fun
00:18 OldCoder o/
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08:30 Cyborg42 Hi all! How do I set English language on non-English system?
08:30 Krock language = en
08:31 Krock or delete the locale directory
08:31 Cyborg42 Where do I put this?
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08:32 Krock into your minetest.conf file
08:32 Krock or the locale directory into your trash bin
08:32 Krock depends what you want to do
08:32 Krock (rename would be possible too)
08:36 MinetestBot [git] Rui-Minetest -> minetest/minetest: Remove unused parameter of GUIVolumeChange b3fc133 https://git.io/vPB3h (2016-10-09T10:35:51+02:00)
08:38 Cyborg42 Krock: Thank you! Conf file works fine.
08:38 Krock !next
08:38 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
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08:39 Cyborg42 Wonder why nobody thought of creating empty "en" dir and having it in the UI too.
08:46 Krock that's another one-liner to fix :/
08:54 agaran Hello
08:54 Krock hi agaran
08:54 Krock Cyborg42, https://github.com/minetes​t/minetest/pull/4606/files
08:54 agaran anyone knows if there is more recent protector than https://github.com/Zeg9/minetest-protect/ ?
08:55 Krock protector redo, perhaps?
08:55 Krock https://github.com/tenplus1/protector
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08:55 agaran thx :)
08:55 Krock !next
08:55 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
08:56 Cyborg42 Krock: nice
08:58 agaran that was the one I was looking for
08:58 Krock ^^
09:03 agaran bridges mod for mg_valley.. yay
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13:17 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: Environment cleanup 70f104b https://git.io/vPBBj (2016-10-09T15:17:10+02:00)
13:19 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetestmapper: Fix small typo (std:cerr -> std::cerr) 09945ca https://git.io/vPBRf (2016-10-09T15:19:35+02:00)
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13:51 agaran !seen paramat
13:51 MinetestBot agaran: paramat was last seen at 2016-10-07 20:42:31 UTC on #minetest
13:52 Krock you have more chances in -project
13:52 agaran ah
13:52 Krock or in -dev ;)
13:52 agaran I am too noobish for -dev
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14:34 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: A little cleanup since previous commit 1b45086 https://git.io/vPBu6 (2016-10-09T16:31:43+02:00)
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15:54 MrJones silly question: if I just install the game and launch singleplayer, is there anything else I'm supposed to do for enemies and animals?
15:54 MrJones like, would I need mods for that? or is that in the game and I just didn't enable it
15:56 sfan5 you need mods for that
15:57 MrJones is there like some sort of standard mod pack? like for someone new to the game who just wants some reasonable base functionality
15:59 sfan5 i don't know of any
15:59 sfan5 ufortunately you need to find the mods you want for yourself
16:00 sfan5 *unfortunately
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16:54 agaran MrJones: easiest way may be to wander thru several servers and looking what mods they have, then trying them on local machine via singleplayer
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16:59 Out`Of`Control 25 GB map turn into 2.4 GB map
17:00 Krock Out`Of`Control, how?
17:00 Out`Of`Control Krock:  delete all below -200
17:00 Out`Of`Control but i need more tests
17:01 sfan5 but people can also build bases below -200 you know
17:01 Out`Of`Control sfan5:  i know
17:01 Krock add a rule that they should not build anything there :P
17:01 * agaran routinelly builds below -1k if possible...
17:01 Out`Of`Control i am only testing
17:02 Out`Of`Control sfan5:  you can't protect land under 200, i can save some with WE
17:02 sfan5 you can't? why not
17:03 agaran landrush I think does not go below -200
17:03 Out`Of`Control maybe i change it to -500 will see
17:03 Out`Of`Control but its 10x smaller wow
17:04 Out`Of`Control "Name-ID mapping version not supported!" corupted map chunk?
17:05 sfan5 yes
17:05 Out`Of`Control ok thanks
17:06 Out`Of`Control i try many tools on this map. something whent wrong, but its a copy
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17:07 agaran Hi IhrFussel
17:08 sfan5 what kind of tools try to modify the serialized map data?
17:08 IhrFussel Hey there...I decided to do the following: Create a new map with the exact same seed, save the most important buildings via WE and paste them into the new map at the same location
17:10 Out`Of`Control anyone know an easy way to tweak mod_travelnet.data file?
17:10 agaran sfan5: silly idea, what if I load some mapblock with voxelmanip, save which each node is, replace those nodes with clean-meta-if-should-be-empty node, then apply VM, then revert, would it clean metadata in map?
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17:11 IhrFussel But before I start with this extremely difficult task I have some questions: 1. Will the same seed GUARANTEE the exact same map generation? 2. Can I specify a seed WITHOUT UI?
17:11 agaran yes I know it will stress minetest core but I want to avoid chopping there directly..
17:11 agaran IhrFussel: seed = in config
17:11 sfan5 IhrFussel: 1 not exactly the same i think 2 yes there's a setting, what did you think the main menu sets?
17:11 agaran IhrFussel: in map_meta.txt you have seed = ...
17:12 sfan5 you can also modify the seed *number* in map_meta.txt
17:12 IhrFussel sfan5, how much can it differ from the original?
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17:13 sfan5 agaran: are you talking about https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/3a57e525009ade2aa039b0bab33e4b10eda36bf4 ?
17:13 agaran wow, great, gonna git pull then
17:13 sfan5 IhrFussel: if it does then it will probably be small details that differ
17:13 agaran sfan5: thanks ALOT :)
17:14 sfan5 yeah no
17:14 sfan5 agaran: 1) you probably can't fix this with vmanip anyway 2) just applying this commit won't fix your map
17:14 IhrFussel sfan5, okay so it SHOULD be possible to have overall the same map and players will not notice differences?
17:14 sfan5 tl;dr make sure to read the extended commit description
17:14 sfan5 IhrFussel: dunno try it :)
17:14 sfan5 i can't predict which differences your players would notice
17:15 agaran sfan5: I know it wont fix, but should reduce -some- junk in there, VM to replace nodes with ones I want (that clean metadata)
17:15 agaran just to do like default:stone -> my cleaner node => default stone replacement..
17:15 agaran stone, air shall have no meta
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17:15 sfan5 they can have meta too
17:16 agaran then I amnot aware about reason they might..
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17:24 MinetestBot [git] Nestorfish -> minetest/minetestmapper: Improvements to Node name/ID mapping code c45965e https://git.io/vPBoZ (2016-10-09T19:22:28+02:00)
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18:08 ShadowNinja BTW, we just got featured on the front page of hacker news, we've gotten over 2000 today uniques so far.
18:08 ShadowNinja s/today uniques/uniques today/
18:08 red-001 link?
18:09 sfan5 huh
18:09 ShadowNinja https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12670310
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18:13 ShadowNinja Analytics: http://i.imgur.com/2j14Pt4.png
18:14 Krock wow nice
18:14 sfan5 oh right we have analytics
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18:15 Fixer_ ycombinator effect
18:17 sfan5 >One of the best 'downloads' page I've seen
18:17 sfan5 i wonder what makes it so good
18:17 swift110 hey all
18:19 Krock Perhaps the direct and large written links :)
18:20 sfan5 or maybe the fact that we say GNU/Linux instead of Linux
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18:23 red-001 when will mod security be enabled by default?
18:24 sfan5 i'm sure it already is
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18:24 ShadowNinja Surely soon (tm).
18:25 red-001 so never?
18:25 ShadowNinja sfan5: Nope, still disabled: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/bl​ob/master/src/defaultsettings.cpp#L304
18:26 ShadowNinja red-001: Probably soon, we just haven't got to it.  Maybe I'll make a pull now.
18:26 sfan5 what really
18:26 sfan5 well why is it not enabled
18:28 ShadowNinja sfan5: It was left off for testing and we never got to enabling it I guess.  I was running it on my mini-world server without problems.  I think player_textures is just about the only mod still incompatible with it, but there's a PR to fix it.
18:29 Fixer_ sfan5: o.O
18:29 sfan5 i see
18:29 Fixer_ sfan5: download pages THAT MUCH FUCKED UP so minetest one is actually good?
18:29 sfan5 idk
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18:32 ShadowNinja I think one of the things that makes our DL page good is that it provides some information for beginers and gives you simple install links for a bunch of platforms.
18:32 agaran paramat: Hello, can I have question(s) about intersecting mod?
18:33 paramat yes
18:33 agaran paramat: is there some setting to prevent lightore to be generated just under surface shallow enough that it shines thru dirt?
18:35 paramat you want it deeper so it doesn't shine through corners?
18:37 agaran yep, especially looking funny on deserts
18:37 agaran I looked at code but I didn't found how to adjust that..
18:37 paramat ah, you want it to start at a deeper y value
18:37 agaran and this mod + valleys mg is cpu-killer
18:37 agaran (it alone on v6 mapgen was reporting 500-900ms per mapblock)
18:38 agaran ok, I'll try tweaking :)
18:38 paramat hang on ..
18:38 paramat https://github.com/paramat/inters​ecting/blob/master/init.lua#L254
18:39 paramat if y < LUXDEPTH and math.random() < LUXCHA then
18:40 paramat easy really
18:40 agaran and set LUXDEPTH to desired value?
18:40 paramat yes or add it as a parameter to top of file
18:41 paramat the mod is a heavy user of noise, all that 3D noise
18:41 agaran yes I felt that :)
18:41 agaran but tunnels are awesome
18:41 paramat it still needs one more noise memory use optimisation
18:42 paramat you might get OOM crash with LuaJIT
18:43 agaran I was testing it only a little bit, but caverns that get easilly several hundreds nodes down.. neat
18:45 ShadowNinja sfan5: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4614
18:45 _Megaf wait, you mean Minetest uses less memory without Luajit?
18:45 paramat LuaJIT has a very low mwmory use limit ~2GB
18:48 ShadowNinja LuaJIT is basically 32-bit limited, so you may be able to get up to 4GiB of memory, but it will realistically be much less.  Non-JIT Lua is also *MUCH* faster at allocating a lot of memory (possibly because LuaJIT uses an old and slow GC).
18:50 _Megaf so on a server with lots of mods and mesecons and technic and pipeworks. What is best, JIT or non JIT?
18:50 _Megaf maybe LuaJIT could speed things up on CPU side and slow on memory side?
18:52 Out`Of`Control how compile with Non-JIT?
18:52 ShadowNinja _Megaf: LuaJIT probably still faster than Lua in most cases, it just has a few parts that are starting to fall behind Lua.
18:52 Out`Of`Control so minetest eat more ram
18:53 paramat because i dev lua mapgens i always use non-JIT
18:53 ShadowNinja We're still stuck on Lua 5.1 though, so the optimizations added in 5.2 and 5.3 don't really apply either unlesss you modify the build files.
18:55 Out`Of`Control DENABLE_LUAJIT=0 would eat more ram?
18:55 sfan5 it would make it possible to use more
18:55 Out`Of`Control cool, as i have too much free ram
18:56 sfan5 ok you misunderstood me
18:56 sfan5 it opens the possibility of using more
18:56 sfan5 it won't use more
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18:56 Out`Of`Control ok thanks, will compile and compare
18:57 Out`Of`Control sfan5: will it stop crashes like lua out of ram?
18:57 Out`Of`Control i just wonder
18:57 sfan5 yes it would help in those cases
18:57 Out`Of`Control cool
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19:13 ShadowNinja I wonder if we could catch those cases and print something about how you should try without LuaJIT.  Otherwise the massage is quite confusing since you probably have plenty of memory left.
19:15 ShadowNinja Ravi is a promising modern alternative to LuaJIT, although I don't think it's particularly fast yet: https://ravilang.github.io/
19:16 ShadowNinja It uses LLVM or libgccjit and has support for optional static typing for additional speedups.
19:17 sfan5 including the whole of llvm is pretty heavy though
19:19 Hawk777 Isn’t LLVM already used by some Linux video drivers to compile shaders?
19:20 Hawk777 So, not absurd to embed it.
19:37 ShadowNinja sfan5: There's also the libgccjit backend.  And we definitely shouldn't just copy the whole thing into our source tree like we did with Lua 5.1.
19:42 Hawk777 Although http://the-ravi-programming-language.read​thedocs.io/en/latest/ravi-jit-status.html seems to suggest it’s not quite ready for primetime yet (no coroutines, no infinite tail recursion, and not recommended to use C API).
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21:01 red-001 is Jeija on irc?
21:01 Krock sometimes
21:01 Krock currently offline
21:02 red-001 ~seen jeija
21:02 ShadowBot red-001: I haven't seen jeija in #minetest.
21:02 red-001 ~seen Jeija
21:02 ShadowBot red-001: I saw Jeija in #minetest 2 days, 23 hours, 22 minutes, and 38 seconds ago saying "The curvature is implemented in shaders, yes. But the mechanics of the planet can only be implemented in the cpp code."
21:02 red-001 ~tell
21:02 ShadowBot red-001: tell <nick> <text>
21:02 Krock !tell
21:02 MinetestBot Krock: Need a nickname...
21:03 red-001 nvm I will just write new documentation
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21:10 red-001 what version of cc by sa does the dev wiki use?
21:14 Krock click on the link on the footer
21:14 Krock 3.0
21:15 red-001 why does it use a diffrent license then lua_api.txt?
21:17 Krock because creative commons is common for wikis
21:17 Krock thus, default
21:17 red-001 still it makes it harder to reuse documentation from lua_api.txt
21:19 red-001 ~tell Jeija I reformated documention written by you about HTTPFetchRequest that was in lua_api.txt (licensed under lgpl v2.1) and added it to the dev wiki (licensed under cc by sa). I hope this isn't a problem.
21:19 ShadowBot red-001: O.K.
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