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IRC log for #minetest, 2016-10-07

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:02 _Megaf cheapie: is it you on #Debian at OFTC ?
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05:03 cheapie _Megaf: Yes, why?
05:03 cheapie _Megaf: I haven't said/done anything on OFTC in forever, but I am there.
05:03 swift110-phone hey cheapie how are you
05:03 cheapie Hi.
05:04 cheapie I just got home from work, getting ready to do some more work on my SCSI Tools thing.
05:04 swift110-phone co
05:04 swift110-phone cool
05:04 swift110-phone tgif
05:04 swift110-phone i will be happy friday night when i return homw
05:05 cheapie Had to fix the ice machine at work *again* (sort of).
05:05 swift110-phone oh ok
05:06 cheapie We had about a 1-second power outage, and the ice machine decided to trip the breaker when it came back on. I reset it, and it ran fine for about half a cycle before giving T3 and T4 faults (temperature sensor 3 and 4).
05:07 cheapie I checked on the readings from those two, and they were fine, so I cleared the faults. It then seemed to be working, so I called it good for the night. I work tomorrow, so I'll see what it's doing then.
05:09 swift110-phone wow
05:09 swift110-phone that must really suck
05:11 cheapie It's not really all that fun being the unofficial "technician" :P
05:11 cheapie Great, it's supposed to rain again soon...
05:12 swift110-phone ohwow
05:12 swift110-phone eill
05:12 swift110-phone will you be playing minetest today
05:20 * cheapie reappears
05:20 cheapie Probably not, too busy with "SCSI Tools" (which really needs a better name).
05:20 cheapie Right now, I'm trying to find a drive that supports specifying a DLIST so I can properly test that part of it.
05:21 _Megaf I dont know if I got to bed or drink coffe
05:21 _Megaf cheapie: what's your server?
05:22 cheapie I don't have an MT server.
05:22 cheapie I have a web server at cheapiesystems.com, if that's what you're asking.
05:23 _Megaf oh
05:23 _Megaf never had mt server?
05:23 cheapie I used to a long time ago. It wasn't much of anything.
05:25 Calinou "I have an HTTP server on my Internet box!"
05:25 _Megaf I think I remember a little about it
05:25 Calinou the hipster would say "I have a Web experience on my cloud"
05:27 swift110-phone wow
05:27 _Megaf my GNOME running on Debian. Using a macOS wallpaper, from my macbook pro http://git.megaf.info/Megaf/GitPast​e/raw/master/screenshots/Screenshot​%20from%202016-10-07%2006:23:48.png
05:27 swift110-phone hey calinou
05:27 Calinou hi
05:27 _Megaf haters gonna hate
05:27 swift110-phone i might do a minecraft server
05:27 Calinou _Megaf: wow, Linux is ready for the desktop
05:27 Calinou with that wallpaper
05:27 _Megaf yep, just needed a wallpaper xP
05:29 _Megaf I put sent this link to #MacOSX too.
05:29 _Megaf I better take cover
05:31 swift110-phone cool
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05:41 agaran cheapie: your tools work only wit sas/scsi or also fc?
05:43 _Megaf and by the way, my macOS desktop http://git.megaf.info/Megaf/GitPaste​/raw/master/screenshots/Screen%20Sho​t%202016-10-07%20at%2006.39.33.png
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05:48 * cheapie reappears
05:48 cheapie agaran: They should work with anything using the SCSI command set, including SCSI, SAS, FC, UASP, and even ATA through Linux's SCSI-ATA translation layer.
05:49 cheapie The features that will work depend (a lot) on the drive.
05:49 cheapie For example, it can spin ATA drives up/down and read their SMART data, but it can't format them or read the defect list.
05:51 cheapie It's also nowhere near production quality, is a bit too easy to wipe your drives with if you press the wrong button, is Linux only, expects a few external programs to be present, and has basically no documentation. However, if you're interested, you can find it here: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23287697/
05:56 agaran cheapie: thx
05:56 agaran I am qa @work.. I am used to break things..
05:57 _Megaf Ok, I want to learn a bit
05:57 _Megaf whats FC?
05:57 cheapie I think the stuff you'll need installed is lsscsi, lsblk, badblocks, sg_raw, sg_turs, smartctl, hexdump, fio, and gnome-disks. Some functionality will still work even if you're missing some of those.
05:58 _Megaf I not familiar with FC nor UASP
05:58 agaran fc = fibrechannel
05:58 cheapie Another thing to note is that it'll happily let you specify invalid stuff if you want. It'll even let you specify a defect on a head that doesn't exist, and stuff like that.
05:58 cheapie UASP = USB attached SCSI.
05:59 _Megaf Oh, ok, thanks
05:59 cheapie (Same as UAS. The "P" stands for protocol.)
05:59 agaran we have only FC (2,4,8G), ficon, iscsi @10Gbe, sas..
05:59 cheapie I think USB BOT uses SCSI (sort of) too, but I haven't really tried much with that.
05:59 agaran occasionally some sata stuff exists too
06:00 cheapie agaran: Basically, it'll work to some extent with anything Linux thinks is a SCSI drive.
06:00 agaran cheapie: whats license for it?
06:00 _Megaf Im not sure why we need interfaces so fast and with so little latecy on spining disk based drives
06:00 cheapie Heh, I really should put that in as a comment. I don't care a whole lot, so Unlicense works: http://unlicense.org/
06:00 cheapie _Megaf: They make SSDs for it too.
06:00 _Megaf because of the gigantic cache they might have?
06:00 agaran _Megaf: who said we use -single- drive on end of bus?
06:01 agaran well there are SAS 12G SSD drives..
06:01 _Megaf still, latency still high
06:01 agaran nope..
06:01 agaran not if you have several GB of cache, or have all flash array..
06:01 _Megaf hm
06:01 _Megaf hah,
06:01 _Megaf so, cache it is
06:01 agaran yes, with 24x2TB SSD or more..
06:01 agaran and raid over that of course..
06:02 cheapie Here, I went ahead and put the (un)license blurb in it: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23287730/
06:02 agaran and it is never too fast
06:02 _Megaf agaran: why not just use RAMDISKs or PCI-X based SSDs?
06:02 agaran _Megaf: we have fio/nvme too
06:02 _Megaf because of the huge storage space required?
06:02 cheapie I forgot to mention that it's written in Lua, so the proper way to run it is something along the lines of "sudo lua scsitools.lua".
06:03 agaran it depends what you need those things for
06:03 agaran cheapie: I managed to notice:)
06:03 cheapie agaran: Good. I didn't know if you would be able to tell or not.
06:03 _Megaf cheapie: can't I use python3 scsitools.lua?
06:03 cheapie _Megaf: You can try. You might not like the results :P
06:04 _Megaf Maybe I should cmake it it first then compile with a JavaScript VM
06:04 _Megaf that makes no sense at all I know
06:04 cheapie I don't think it's valid CMake or JS :P
06:04 _Megaf agaran: I can only dream with this machines you have there
06:04 cheapie (or are you writing a Lua compiler in JS?)
06:04 agaran it is not my stuff, but employer..
06:04 agaran still fun to play with that
06:05 _Megaf indeed
06:05 cheapie agaran: I do have some of the fancy stuff here (mostly older fancy stuff), which is why I wrote it in the first place.
06:05 _Megaf I'm actually looking forwared for the Risc V architecture
06:05 agaran but.. did you ever think how long it takes to do mkfs on petabyte scale storage?;)
06:05 _Megaf and the next Sparc CPUs
06:05 cheapie I have exactly two 15K RPM hard drives, both 146GB, one 3.5" and one 2.5".
06:06 _Megaf agaran: whats the botleneck in that case?
06:06 _Megaf CPU?
06:06 agaran cheapie: well I have some ancientware personally too.. but I ws thinking to show that tool in raid department and torture our raids with it
06:06 _Megaf or BUS
06:06 _Megaf or DISK
06:06 _Megaf disk
06:06 agaran _Megaf: sometimes software design, sometimes IO latency on disk (seeks take loong)
06:06 agaran we work to improve that..
06:07 _Megaf I understand that the software needs to read the whole disk
06:07 cheapie (and then some random boring 1TB Seagate SAS drive, and some parallel SCSI drives of varying interest levels)
06:07 _Megaf but that shouldnt take a long time
06:07 agaran _Megaf: what if you have.. 700 drives?
06:07 cheapie _Megaf: You should see how long a full read scan on a, say, 3TB drive takes.
06:07 _Megaf well, if you do in sequence, it will take time
06:08 _Megaf but really, I have no idea
06:08 _Megaf this is whole new world to me and I want to learn
06:08 cheapie I'd assume that if you were to do a full surface read scan on one of those 10TB drives, it would likely take all day and then some.
06:09 _Megaf It shouldnt take too much time. I think what botlenecks the thing the most for that is the protocol
06:09 _Megaf or software, as agaran said
06:09 _Megaf BUSes are pretty quick, disk is not physicaly so large, it wont take to much time to move the heads accorss
06:10 _Megaf but I dont know
06:10 cheapie Heh, moving heads takes years from the CPU's point of view.
06:10 _Megaf then we get to the protocol talk again
06:11 _Megaf and the disk controller way of doing things
06:11 cheapie I'm going to assume that for random I/O to a huge array of spinning rust drives, the drives themselves are going to mostly be the bottleneck.
06:11 _Megaf but yeah, HDDs and SDDs use low power ARM CPUs, v7 usually or inferior
06:11 cheapie I'm not even sure if most of them are on ARM.
06:12 cheapie I know a lot of SSDs are, but I think a lot of hard drives are more primitive.
06:12 _Megaf well, most if not all consumer grade HDDs I saw on my hand were ARM
06:12 _Megaf SATA and PATA
06:12 cheapie Heck, even up through the late 90s, there were a few hard drives with 80186s on board.
06:12 * cheapie digs out a random drive
06:12 * _Megaf is doing the same, but online
06:13 _Megaf google image hdd logic board
06:13 cheapie Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 120GB should be close enough...
06:13 _Megaf ok, maybe not ARM http://www.ixbt.com/storage/at​a2005/t7k500/7k500-plata-b.jpg
06:13 cheapie No ARM logo on any of the chips.
06:14 _Megaf they are not obligated to use the logo, are they?
06:14 cheapie I have no idea.
06:14 cheapie Too bad most of these chips don't have publicly-available datasheets...
06:15 agaran on some cases they were.. but maybe they could pay enough to not be obligated..
06:15 _Megaf now imagine running Linux on a 186 on a HDD Logic board
06:15 _Megaf by Linux I mean, stripped down kernel
06:15 _Megaf very stripped down
06:16 _Megaf I know it could be possible, I had Linux on my iPod Nano first generation
06:16 cheapie Heh, something I learned today is that the digital menu boards at McDonald's run Linux.
06:16 agaran you can get https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/onion/ome​ga2-5-iot-computer-with-wi-fi-powered-by-linux instead.. easier
06:16 _Megaf cheapie: cool
06:16 _Megaf anyway, most of the controllers I see here are agere or st
06:16 cheapie I have a suspicion that our new headset system's base station does as well.
06:17 cheapie You're more likely to find info on the ST controllers, as Agere has *really* close ties with Seagate.
06:17 _Megaf yep, so the controllers are very likely rebranded
06:18 _Megaf some are LSI
06:18 cheapie LSI got bought by Agere or something.
06:19 cheapie I think that "LSI" is a different company than the one that made HBAs and such... I think that one's owned by Broadcom now.
06:19 _Megaf for what I can see on my image search I made a mistake about the ARM controllers on HDDs
06:19 cheapie I know Samsung SSDs *do* use ARM controllers.
06:19 cheapie (logo and all)
06:20 cheapie You know, I have this huge drive sitting here, I should look at that board...
06:20 cheapie Intel 80C196.
06:22 _Megaf the marvel ones say 88i6889 or something like that
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06:22 cheapie I don't think Marvell ever made the microcontrollers.
06:23 cheapie I know Seagate *loved* Marvell's PRML read channel chips a while back.
06:23 _Megaf speaking of HDDs controllers. http://hackaday.com/2013/08/02/sprite_tm-ohm2​013-talk-hacking-hard-drive-controller-chips/
06:23 _Megaf !title
06:23 MinetestBot _Megaf: [Sprite_TM] OHM2013 Talk: Hacking hard drive controller chips | Hackaday
06:24 _Megaf the 88i6889 runs at 800 MHz
06:24 _Megaf thats faster than my Asus EePC 701 from 2008
06:24 _Megaf EeePC*
06:27 _Megaf http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2​016/09/harddriveteardown-5-100682861-orig.jpg
06:27 _Megaf thats what the chip says
06:27 cheapie Huh, maybe someone is using those now.
06:27 cheapie Looks like either a WD or a very new Seagate.
06:28 cheapie Apparently WD according to the article the picture's from.
06:30 _Megaf speaking of st
06:30 _Megaf https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe​dia/commons/3/3a/ARM-HP-PRINTER.JPG
06:30 _Megaf but that its a printer
06:30 _Megaf not a HDD xP
06:30 cheapie Well, I think I'm off for the night...
06:30 _Megaf its ARM
06:30 XeonSquared but can it run Linux
06:30 cheapie Bye!
06:30 XeonSquared o/
06:30 _Megaf cya cheapie
06:30 _Megaf agaran: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Conner_Peri​pherals_%22Chinook%22_dual-actuator_drive.jpg
06:31 _Megaf thats sick
06:36 agaran it significantly improves performance of spinning drive..
06:36 _Megaf well, 7 AM
06:36 _Megaf I think I will go to bed
06:36 agaran time to sleep?
06:36 agaran :)
06:36 _Megaf yep
06:36 _Megaf good night all
06:36 agaran good night
06:36 _Megaf :)
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08:42 yusf[m] Jeija: Just watched the video of your work. Amazing.
08:45 Krock yusf[m], a contribution to your confusion in how it works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7Edq_K72Jc
08:48 yusf[m] Jeijas doughnut was sufficient for understanding, it's just exciting to be able to play this some time.
08:48 yusf[m] But yeah, smaller planets will have confused players no doubt. :D
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09:18 Krock playiing with worldedit at the border regions is fun too
09:18 TitiMoby hi everyone
09:18 Krock suddenly you have cut through the whole planet instead of removing 2x2x2 nodes
09:18 Krock hi Tiktalik
09:18 Krock New content: http://www.overclockers.com.au/pic.p​hp?pic=images/newspics/7oct16/34.jpg
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09:20 JamesTait Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy World Smile Day! 😁
09:29 Krock hello JamesTait :(
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09:42 JamesTait 👋  Krock! 😁
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12:21 _Megaf good morning folks
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12:52 nm0i moorning, _Megaf
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12:56 _Megaf Calinou: so, Linux is defintally not ready for desktop, I wanted to change my touchpad settings. Guess, not gonna happen, http://git.megaf.info/Megaf/GitPast​e/raw/master/screenshots/Screenshot​%20from%202016-10-07%2013:54:26.png
12:57 Calinou yeah, have to use command line
12:57 Calinou libinput also finally allows disabling mouse acceleration entirely
12:57 Calinou this was not possible until last year (!)
12:57 _Megaf Oo
12:57 Calinou meanwhile, even Windows XP had that "feature"
12:57 _Megaf but WMs had settings for that
12:57 Calinou you could set it to 0.1
12:57 Calinou not 0.0
12:58 _Megaf problem is GNOME 3 that messed up a lot of things
12:58 _Megaf Calinou: oh, really?
12:58 Calinou yes
12:59 FirePowi Hello, is it possible to ban an IP address space ?
13:00 _Megaf wildcards, I don't now, maybe with a mod
13:00 _Megaf FirePowi: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9315
13:00 _Megaf !title
13:00 MinetestBot _Megaf: [Mod] Extended Ban v2 [xban2] - Minetest Forums
13:00 Krock yes, on_prejoinplayer (or similar) allows that
13:00 _Megaf there ^
13:01 _Megaf Krock: ¬¬
13:01 Krock there's also a multiple login filter for kids who spam accounts:
13:01 _Megaf you broken my ^
13:01 Krock !mod names_per_ip
13:01 MinetestBot Krock: Names per IP [names_per_ip] by Calinou - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=9768
13:03 _Megaf disaster! I'm running out of coffee! Need to brew more!
13:03 _Megaf oh no
13:05 Krock some people brew coffee, others seem to do that with OS X.. must have a very bad taste IMO
13:06 _Megaf I actually installed homebrew on my mac again yesterday
13:07 _Megaf I wish the Open Source community or Free Software Foundation made an Open Source version of macOS
13:07 _Megaf we already have the kernel open source, most of the tools under the hood on macOS are GNU already
13:07 _Megaf And we do have most of the graphical stack open too, via GNUStep project
13:08 Krock they couldn't sell their devices anymore if everybody had the source code
13:08 _Megaf problem is, GNUStep is stuck in time, since 1985...
13:09 _Megaf Years ago I attempted to replicate all the interface of Snow Leopard on GNUStep/WindowMaker, in a couple of hours I made it behave almost exactelly as OS X, including the doc and .app applications
13:09 _Megaf just looked like a 1985 desktop...
13:09 _Megaf but the feel of the look and feel part is already there
13:10 _Megaf and we do have some Darwin based OSes, but they are using X11 and some minimalistic WMs,
13:12 _Megaf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNUstep
13:12 _Megaf https://en.wikipedia.org/wik​i/Darwin_(operating_system)
13:12 _Megaf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU
13:12 _Megaf all we need for a Open Source macOS like Operating System
13:12 _Megaf perhaps 100% compatible
13:12 _Megaf since it's the same kernel
13:13 _Megaf and here is the source code for macOS kernel http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/
13:15 _Megaf and all Open Source components Apple use under the hood on madOS https://opensource.apple.com/release/os-x-1011/
13:17 Krock Your current monologue highscore is 13.
13:18 _Megaf :D
13:19 _Megaf And even the macOS framework to write drivers for it is OPEN SOURCE! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I/O_Kit
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13:33 nm0i gnustep is required to run oolite
13:34 nm0i i dunno where im going with that cue
13:34 nm0i dont be discouraged to continue your monologue
13:35 swift110 hmm
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13:47 _Megaf nm0i: lol
13:47 _Megaf I was actually having a look at some new or active projects related to GNUStep and Darwin
13:47 _Megaf there are some interesting stuff on the web
13:48 _Megaf http://www.nongnu.org/backbone/screenshots.html
13:48 _Megaf This one is promissing http://etoileos.com/etoile/
13:48 _Megaf A whole contemporany desktop stack based on GNUStep
13:49 _Megaf would be nice running that on top of http://www.gnu-darwin.org/ or http://www.puredarwin.org/
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20:04 paramat celeron55_ these might interest you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztAg643gJBA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joFWr3JzBOI Jeija modified MT to a torus geometry to create the appearence of a spherical planet
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20:09 garywhite Hi everyone
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20:30 Topic for #minetest is now Welcome to #minetest, official Minetest channel | Latest version: 0.4.14 (2016-05-15) | Responses may take a while, be patient | Rules: http://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: http://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/
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20:50 codehero wait. spherical planets in minetest?
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20:54 yusf[m] codehero: Yes!
20:55 codehero that's pretty cool
20:55 codehero i would have thought that would require a whole new voxel engine
20:55 yusf[m] I wish it could become a setting in regular MT one day o_O
20:56 codehero heh
20:56 codehero there's a lot of distortion though
20:57 codehero this guy seems to have gotten the closest to nice voxel planets
20:57 codehero https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJr4QlDxEME
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21:41 Megaf codehero: we have some spherical minetests already... nothing new there
21:41 codehero oh. huh. okay
21:41 codehero didn't know that
21:43 Megaf its somewhere, on the internet
21:43 Krock * https://github.com/Jeija/spheretest/
21:44 Krock it's made with the doughnut principe
21:57 Megaf !seen IhrFussel
21:57 MinetestBot Megaf: ihrfussel was last seen at 2016-09-28 01:38:53 UTC on #minetest
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23:14 STHGOM hey, would anyone like to play on a server with pvp_ctf_engine? my server is going down due to inactivity and I backed up the world files, so im hoping to have one big battle, with lots of destruction and stuff
23:14 garywhite ?
23:16 STHGOM so, its just set up for kingdoms and stuff, but there arent enough players, so i plan on just giving one last try
23:16 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Lua_api.txt: Add biome and nodeupdate documentation 0264e38 https://git.io/vP4U0 (2016-10-08T00:09:01+01:00)
23:16 MinetestBot [git] SmallJoker -> minetest/minetest: Textures: Ignore unknown node in override.txt d4a2e23 https://git.io/vP4UE (2016-10-08T00:08:50+01:00)
23:17 STHGOM and since its backed up, I dont care if fighters burn and loot places
23:20 garywhite I think it wouldn't be a bad idea
23:21 STHGOM ok
23:22 STHGOM !server Persistent
23:22 MinetestBot STHGOM: Persistent Kingdoms [City vs City] | snet3.myteke.net:39000 | Clients: 3/100, 1/3 | Version: 0.4.14 / minetest_wars | Ping: 103ms
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23:23 _Megaf I will see if I can get a player from my server join there too
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23:24 STHGOM ok
23:24 STHGOM thanks :D
23:24 _Megaf STHGOM: he timedout, will tell him as soon as he return
23:25 STHGOM ok
23:27 _Megaf hm, how to install minetest after cmake and make ?
23:27 _Megaf oh, make install
23:29 STHGOM oh, tip: you need minetest 0.4.14 or newer
23:30 STHGOM because nametags are hidden with that new feature
23:31 _Megaf garywhite: STHGOM: a player will be joining the server soon :)
23:31 garywhite Why was it sent to me?
23:32 _Megaf garywhite: you are not joining too?
23:32 garywhite I will in a few
23:38 7IZAAABZO hi
23:39 7IZAAABZO everyone join plz
23:39 7IZAAABZO a battle for the ages is a hope
23:39 _Megaf hold on
23:40 _Megaf !server Persistent
23:40 MinetestBot _Megaf: Persistent Kingdoms [City vs City] | snet3.myteke.net:39000 | Clients: 3/100, 1/3 | Version: 0.4.14 / minetest_wars | Ping: 106ms
23:41 betterthanyou711 hmmm who has betterthanyou710
23:41 garywhite Hang on
23:41 betterthanyou711 OK
23:41 _Megaf my player couldnt find the server...
23:45 betterthanyou711 hmmm
23:45 betterthanyou711 i dont think its whitelisted
23:45 betterthanyou711 STHGOM ?
23:45 STHGOM hmm
23:45 STHGOM might be lagging
23:46 garywhite !server Persistent
23:46 MinetestBot garywhite: No results
23:46 garywhite ?
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23:48 garywhite I can't get on either
23:48 STHGOM hm
23:48 STHGOM oh well
23:48 STHGOM :P
23:49 STHGOM sorry about that, i guess
23:49 garywhite It's ok

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