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IRC log for #minetest, 2016-09-26

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Time Nick Message
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01:31 segfault22 I read some website that said the dollar was gonna collapse on September 27 because OPEC and China will stop trading in dollars and Russia will push them to use their gold-backed currency,... It looks like "just a bunch of hooey" as was the last time they said "OH MEH GOD TEH DOLLAR IS GUNNA CULLAPS ON <some date here>!!!!1!!one"
01:32 segfault22 But I do know that due to the nature of fiat money paired with the credit system, it is a ponzi scheme and mathematically certain that it will eventually collapse, we just don't really know when it's gonna happen...
01:34 segfault22 So I'm wondering, should I work on my mods and release them sooner, (possibly) only to have all of it mean nothing and "here be the end" OR everything goes fine for a while longer and people get to use it, or should I set-up Minecraft with a metric-shitton of mods and play it for the next day orso, which would also possibly end in total uselessness OR it doesn't happen on the 27 and I then start working on my mods again, except later than I would ha
01:34 segfault22 ve in option 1...
01:36 segfault22 or 3.) make a "fry-not-sure" meme about it and spend the rest of time until the 27 sharing it in as many places as I possibly can, having either the result of being totally useless and meaning nothind due to "here be the end", or being very useful for making people go "hey wtf is minetest?" and go look it up, possibly learning about it and going "oh cool, I can mod it easy and make whatever I want, and its free!" and becoming a life member of the co
01:36 segfault22 mmunity
01:37 segfault22 trying to explain simple concepts in english, like trying to build an entire car starting with a cube of steel and a warehouse full of complicated industrial tools...
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01:39 segfault22 time for a new symbolic language that can form any possible idea from just a few basic "primal" symbols (not hieroglyphs because the symbols themselves aren't a full "idea)"
01:39 segfault22 am I rambling too much?
01:43 segfault22 Am I not rambling enough to get peoples' attention?
01:44 segfault22 am I wasting my time?
01:46 segfault22 the meaning of life is to gain experience and return it to the lifestream, as the universe continually grows into all possible niches trying to understand/comprehend itself...
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02:19 Hijiri dollar collapse isn't the same thing as an apocalypse, though I doubt this is going to happen
02:20 Hijiri I don't know enough about monetary policy to say whether america's fiat currency is an unsustainable as a ponzi scheme
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02:29 segfault22 Well you know how the central bank prints money? Lets say everyone starts with 0 and then they print up a billion bucks. They loan this billion bucks to a smaller bank, to be paid back plus interest. But the interest doesn't exist yet - so the bank is in debt. In order to pay back the debt, the small bank loans the money out to be paid back plus interest. The people get the money to pay for the interest by selling goods/services to people who use so
02:29 segfault22 me other bank, said other bank also getting $1bil from the fed to pay back plus interest. Now the second small bank and its people are in debt, and the first small bank can just get by paying back all of the money plus interest. The fed has to keep printing more money, and loan it out making even more debt, in order for the people currently in debt to pay off their debt.
02:32 segfault22 There is always more unpaid interest/debt being created. The only way for people currently in debt to pay it back, is to get money from other people who have to get money from the bank - the debt gets moved around, and increases every time.
02:33 segfault22 it's a bit more complicated than that, with more features and the like, but none of those features reduce the total debt in the system. Most of them (like credit) just move it around more effectively, or make more of it faster.
02:37 Hijiri it would be a problem if debt scaled more than proportionally to the money in circulation for sure, eventually
02:37 Hijiri I don't know if that's the case though
02:38 Hijiri And I would guess that there would be things in place to prevent such an obvious pitfall, because people would be asking these questions (as they are)
02:38 segfault22 I forgot to mention fractional reserve banking
02:38 exio4 segfault22: and that the central bank can finance a deficit directly
02:39 exio4 segfault22: leading to money getting injected without debt
02:39 exio4 (well, don't know about there)
02:39 segfault22 Even if they "give away" the printed money, that only causes more problems by making the currency even less valuable
02:40 exio4 well, sure, I am talking about a real life example though :)
02:40 segfault22 Really, people have been convinced that these problems don't exist, so they just don't ask about it, or in most cases, don't know to ask
02:41 exio4 and that's exactly what happened, currency became less valuable, anyway
02:41 exio4 it'd be cool to see the US dollar losing its power as "world's currency"
02:41 frostsnow segfault22: Make a fractal reserve mod for Minetest where the banks hires thugs to collect on your debt once it accumulates.
02:42 exio4 hahah
02:42 exio4 fractal reserve sounds shiny
02:42 segfault22 it doesn't work the same way with gold and other precious materials; they have special uses, which give them their value, so having more of them can only make them less valuable to some limited extent
02:43 segfault22 diamonds are not really rare or difficult to mine, but they are extremely hard and thus have many uses in industry, and girls like them, so they are valuable even if we had mountains of them sitting around
02:44 segfault22 I was thinking about making a Central Bank mod, where you can start a country and build a central bank system, complete with all of the features of the existing system, and then watch as the economy booms and then collapses
02:45 segfault22 and yet, there would be "thugs" as special entities which come to beat you up and take money-notes or stuff to pay back the debt
02:45 frostsnow Or maybe sieze your assets like gold (though it'd be hard to determine what "belonged" to a player)
02:45 segfault22 of course, the stuff has to be sold to another smaller-bank for the money-notes, because the central bank doesn't accept anything but money-notes
02:46 segfault22 we can make a table of locked chests owned by each player, and the thugs go raid them if the debt isn't paid back for some time, attacking the player if they are nearby and taking from their inventory too
02:47 segfault22 "hey! the thugs took my diamond pickaxe! too bad its almost broken, haha..."
02:47 frostsnow Exactly!
02:48 segfault22 thugs spawn at the bank and walk towards the position of the chests, possibly modifying nodes or using tools (rope/grapple) to get through obstacles in the way
02:49 segfault22 then once they get all of the stuff to pay back the debt plus whatever they want to take, they return to the bank, dump all of the stuff for the debt into a special system, dump all of the stuff they took for themselves into their own virtual storage (owned by the bank), then despawn until its time to go raid again
02:50 segfault22 your "credit" determines how much you can borrow from the bank, how long they wait before coming to raid you, and how much stuff the thugs take for themselves
02:51 frostsnow There will also need to be a prison for those who resist having their assets taken.
02:52 segfault22 That is also possible, but it wouldn't make sense if the thugs can come take whatever is valuable enough to pay back the debt. Maybe if there isn't enough stuff owned by the player, they get sent to prison and used by the bank to mine or farm or whatever until the debt is paid back plus interest that accumulates over time
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02:53 segfault22 there could also be some kind of punishment for killing thugs, like incurring more debt/interest, but the thugs don't lose anything they just respawn at the bank
02:54 frostsnow Prison was meant to be the punishment for killing thugs :P
02:54 segfault22 oh
02:55 segfault22 then what if the player doesn't have enough stuff to pay back the debt, even if the thugs empty all of the chests, take the chests, and dismantle all valuable nodes (wood, brick, etc.) in the areas the player owns
02:55 segfault22 like "everything but the kitchen sink" except kitchen sink included
02:56 frostsnow Why not both?
03:00 segfault22 yeah
03:03 segfault22 This would finally allow people to see what really happens when you make a fiat currency system, run by a central bank
03:04 segfault22 However, nothing would be a constant; a player has to create the bank, and the smaller banks, and print the money from paper and ink, and all of the rest. That way, when it falls apart, the world still makes sense and the upset players can burn down their evil bank and start over
03:05 segfault22 we can also make he bank able to issue a gold-backed currency, but only one currency is allowed per bank - central banks can exchange other currencies but only manage/own/found a single one
03:05 frostsnow As funny as the idea is, I'm not sure it really carries over to Minetest's mechanics that well :(
03:06 segfault22 gold-backed currency is usually better, except when fractional reserve banking is applied, because then the bank can issue more gold-redeemable notes than there is gold to pay for all of them, resulting in a famous bank run when people realize whats going on
03:06 segfault22 what do you mean, specifically?
03:06 segfault22 is there an exploit or something that makes it difficult or impossible to implement?
03:07 frostsnow Mostly that no one would create a bank or have a particular need to create one or use its money... unless you think up something rather clever.
03:08 segfault22 We could use some other mods of mine, like this one that makes the creation of tools and collection of resources much more complex, inspiring people to specialize in a specific job in order to get anything done and "make a living",... because you would need to have food too
03:08 segfault22 people would use the money so they can buy tools for their work, and sell their produce for money
03:09 segfault22 instead of doing everything needed to make the tools for their work, including mining the metals out of the ground, smelting it, casting it and forging it into tool parts
03:09 segfault22 oh and tool handles will have to be crafted too, not just two sticks
03:10 segfault22 kinda like gregtech for minetest, except nothing gets wasted
03:10 segfault22 you don't have the infamous "two ingots per plate via the hammer method, one per plate via the plate bender" logical fallacy
03:12 segfault22 it would be virtually impossible to mine metals, process them into tools and stuff, and farm food; the first few players would have to forage for food as they set-up simple dwellings, then farm food while others make more advanced tools to work with wood to make better dwellings, then use tools to get the first metals and build a foundry, and so on - like the development of civilization in the real world
03:13 segfault22 and when the "system" falls apart, it turns into a scavenger world for some time, where people dismantle unuseable technology to get the stuff to make what they need just to get by, until civilization can start over
03:13 Hijiri no bankruptcy laws in this universe?
03:14 Hijiri I don't see how the  two for hammer thing is a logical fallcy
03:14 Hijiri fallacy
03:15 segfault22 well, you end up with the same mass of plate from twice the mass of ingots; mass is not conserved, and you can't get the extra metal back, ever.
03:15 segfault22 if it were a different plate-item that converts to the correct mass of metal when salvaged, that would be fine, but its not
03:16 Hijiri could be that they didn't want to give you waste items to represent waste metal
03:17 segfault22 either way, its wasteful because mass is destroyed, and I don't like that.
03:17 segfault22 There isn't anything that's really total waste; waste is a matter of perception
03:17 Hijiri if you don't have a plate bender yet it's not wasteful, because there's no other choice
03:17 segfault22 ???
03:18 Hijiri we can define "waste" in a way that's useful for our purposes
03:18 Hijiri a process is wasteful if it produces less material than another process we could have used
03:18 Hijiri this is a sensible definition since the goal of not being wasteful is to save resources
03:19 Hijiri less material for the same input
03:19 segfault22 Okay what's waste for animals in nature is food for the bacteria/fungus that makes its own waste, which is food for plants; CO2 is waste for animals but plants need it, and O2 is waste for plants but animals need it
03:19 Hijiri I mean "waste" as in "a waste" or "wasteful"
03:19 segfault22 of course, it means the same thing
03:19 Hijiri This isn't meant to be a general definition, just a useful, directed definition useful in minetest .crafting
03:20 Hijiri "a waste" isn't the same thing as "waste
03:20 Hijiri waste is some kind of material or thing
03:20 Hijiri like carbon dioxide or feces or whatever
03:20 Hijiri "a waste" means you didn't use something as usefully as you could have
03:20 frostsnow segfault22: Judging by the way you've described it, "Fractal Reserve" would be more of a game type than a mod.
03:21 segfault22 I don't like the fact that when a tool is damaged from use, its material doesn't "fall off" and become part of nearby nodes, which can be recovered later, and recycled back into the same tool (needing energy for the process)
03:21 segfault22 fractional
03:21 Hijiri that would be like trying to smelt an iron ingot from the iron they add to your ceral
03:21 Hijiri cereal
03:21 segfault22 fraction, as in they only keep 10% of what you deposit and loan out the rest, to be paid back plus interest, yet tell you that you still have 100%
03:22 segfault22 Who says that you can't smelt an iron ingot from the iron in cereal, if you had enough of the iron in it to equal the mass of the ingot?
03:22 Hijiri you could, but it would not be that interesting gameplay-wise
03:22 segfault22 sure it would be hard, but the mass isn't destroyed
03:23 Hijiri the amount of iron you get from ores would be so much higher that it's not worth the labor of extracting the iron filings that fell off your pickaxe
03:23 segfault22 Of course
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03:24 segfault22 we could also "make it" where the iron dust falls off into the player inventory, and when the tool breaks they get chunks of whatever is less, which would always add up to 100% the material used to make the tool... or it only "falls apart" once it breaks, but the material is returned.
03:25 segfault22 It would be nearly impossible to turn diamond dust back into the whole CVD diamond used to make a pickaxe, but the mass would be there, and it could be used for an industrial grinder or something
03:25 Hijiri what's the benefit?
03:25 Hijiri just to make some things cheaper for the player?
03:26 Hijiri I guess it could be an incentive for a player to mess with the industrial features
03:26 segfault22 No, the benefit is that when something breaks or when something is made, the material that is thrown off and assumed to be waste is not just destroyed
03:26 segfault22 conservation of mass
03:26 Hijiri how does it benefit gameplay?
03:26 segfault22 yeah, mess with industry, thats a good reason too
03:26 Hijiri I don't think conservation of mass itself is important to enforce in the game
03:26 segfault22 uh... you can still use the material for something, after it has been used
03:27 Hijiri that's "good" for the player, because they don't have to do as much work to get material
03:27 Hijiri but it's not always good to make things cheaper
03:27 segfault22 sure it doesn't really matter much since the whole world is full of ores that won't ever be mined up entirely, but it just makes sense to me, and I don't like mass being destroyed in a handwavium-ish fashion
03:28 Hijiri I think it would be equally handwavy when you try to explain how the dusts end up in the player inventory
03:28 Hijiri if not more
03:28 segfault22 the pickaxe item will not be any cheaper to make, when one owned by a player breaks; they still have to spend the material and energy to make it into a new tool
03:29 Hijiri It would make whatever you can make from the material that brushed into your inventory cheaper
03:29 segfault22 right, so thats why I first thought it should end up in the nodes nearby or directly under the player, but then it's difficult to collect and possibly more costly
03:30 segfault22 say, who wants to use up a whole iron pickaxe just to collect the iron dust lining the bottom of a 1x2 tunnel they made with the first one...
03:30 Hijiri the ground probably already has more iron in it than whatever you put with your pickaxe
03:30 segfault22 right
03:30 Hijiri well maybe not underground
03:30 Hijiri it would depend on the rock
03:30 segfault22 yes
03:32 Hijiri of course, tech mods usually add power tools that somehow don't wear down
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03:33 segfault22 If the process for making tools is complex enough, and the material its made of can be used for more costly other stuff like machines, then we can just make the tools become less efficient as they are damaged, and finally totally useless metal beat into a glob, which has to be melted down to use it again - there would still be the incentive to collect more raw iron or whatever material, because more machines are needed
03:34 segfault22 but then we have to handwave why some of the material doesn't get turned to dust as the tool is scraped against rock which is then smashed up
03:34 segfault22 its so complicated to implement conservation of mass,... I thought about this before, but it still doesn't feel right for tools to be destroyed entirely when they break
03:35 segfault22 it doesn't have to be closer to reality, but I feel like it should st least make some kind of sense, even a sense of its own that isn't real,... like a metal Adamantium thats extremely strong, but doesnt exist in reality
03:36 Hijiri well, a fictional reality doesn't necessarily have conservation of energy
03:37 segfault22 right
03:37 segfault22 you know how the conservation of energy "law" makes it impossible to have "free energy"?
03:37 Hijiri yes
03:37 Hijiri does it actually let you have free energy?
03:38 segfault22 the assumption is wrong, because energy can come in from the environment on its own (solar panel) without you having to put in more energy to get it
03:38 segfault22 the law isn't broken, its just misunderstood
03:38 Hijiri well I think we were just looking at different statements because you never defined "free energy" precisely
03:38 Hijiri I thought you just meant energy being created
03:39 segfault22 energy where you don't have to put in more energy in order to get some energy out
03:39 Hijiri well, you need to put in solar radiation to get energy out of solar panels
03:40 segfault22 like, a gas-powered car, you could say you have to put the gasoline (energy) in but can only get less that 100% of the energy out in moving it forward due to losses
03:40 segfault22 You don't put the solar radiation, though. the sun does.
03:40 Hijiri well I don't pump gas into my car either, the gas pump does
03:40 Hijiri the sun is a gas station
03:40 segfault22 actually, most of the energy from a gas-powered car is free, because we didn't put the energy into the gas - the sun put it into plants millions of years ago, which turned into oil then got processed into gas
03:41 Hijiri I'm still not sure what you mean by free energy
03:41 Hijiri that it didn't come from the Earth?
03:41 segfault22 energy that you don't have to get by spending more energy
03:42 Hijiri what do you mean by spending energy
03:42 segfault22 Like, turning a crank to spin a generator (crude example) - you will have to use more food-energy to run the crank, than electricity-energy put out of the generator
03:42 Hijiri If I use up the energy that the sun gave me, is that not spending energy?
03:42 Hijiri but turning a crank would be free energy, if we follow your gas example
03:43 Hijiri the energy came from eating plants or animals, whose energy ultimately came from the sun
03:43 segfault22 not in the context where food energy is equateable to electricity energy (but not convertible)
03:43 segfault22 say then a robot turning a crank on a generator, to power itself. eventually its gonna run out
03:44 segfault22 like the cylon from battlestar galactica, turning a crank-generator to charge its batteries - we all thought "wtf? isnt he using more energy to turn the crank though?" about 5 minutes after the show goes off
03:44 Hijiri that would still be free energy unless you abandon the reasoning from the gas example
03:44 segfault22 Yeah because you had to charge the robot first, I see
03:45 segfault22 is it safe to say that all energy is free then?
03:45 segfault22 because we don't make energy, right?
03:45 segfault22 its just there
03:45 Hijiri I think that would just mean we failed to define "free" meaningfully
03:45 Hijiri free energy
03:46 segfault22 hmm
03:46 segfault22 thats a difficult one
03:46 Hijiri I'm not sure if we have some goal in talking about free energy right now
03:46 Hijiri if we did, it would be easier to define "free energy" because we would know why we want to talk about it
03:47 segfault22 conservation of energy came up, and I want to talk about it, but if you dont thats fine, we can return to the "fractal reserve" mod idea again and i'll be fine
03:47 Hijiri I'm actually not that interested in talking much more
03:47 segfault22 thats fine too
03:47 Hijiri alright, I'll be away
03:48 segfault22 I can just keep rambling about stuff and hope someone reads it, it doesn't have to be you, or if I'm being annoying then I won't...
03:48 segfault22 thank you for talking with me
03:48 segfault22 I hope you have a good day and live long and prosper
04:00 segfault22 If you say all space everywhere is a source of huge amounts of energy that we can't see (quantum vacuum fluctuations), and you devised a way to tap this energy, would it break the law of conservation of energy?
04:01 segfault22 I say no, because the law of conservation of energy assumes a closed system, which does not exist anywhere in the universe.
04:02 segfault22 we're not even sure if the universe itself is or is not a closed system, because nobody has sent equipment outside the universe to "look at" it and determine if it is gaining (or losing) energy from some other source (or staying constant) - not that this technology is even possible to build, or that it would even be possible to send it "outside" the universe...
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04:03 segfault22 hey Yst, are you using the onion router?
04:05 segfault22 teh uniun roouteuer
04:20 Yst segfault22: I'm using three of them!
04:20 segfault22 :D
04:21 segfault22 cool
04:21 Yst Oh, wait. Freenode has that onion address, so six onion routers.
04:21 segfault22 :O
04:34 segfault22 all energy is free
04:35 segfault22 if all space everywhere were a source of infinite quantities of energy (quantum vacuum fluctuations), and you create a device that can harness some of this energy to produce usable power, does that violate the law of conservation of energy?
04:40 Yst I'm ... not sure.
04:41 Yst I don't understand vacuums in the context of quantum physics.
04:43 Yst If they were totally empty, we'd know right where the particles/energy were/was (nowhere) while also knowing it's direction (no direction, as it doesn't exist). Because both can't be set in stone at the same time, there turns out to be some strange energy.
04:43 Yst Or something like that. But that's all that I know, and I don't really understand how it works.
04:44 Yst If there's energy, there should be a way to interact with it and perhaps harvest it, but we wouldn't be able to harvest it all, as that would drop it to zero, and it can't be at zero.
04:45 Yst Can we take some of it though? That would lessen the amount of energy remaining, and can we do that?
04:45 Yst If the energy can become lower, why isn't it already lower, as there's supposed to be nothing there?
04:45 Yst These are the questions that haunt me.
04:49 Hijiri Yst: the last one is a question physicists have asked: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_vacuum
04:55 segfault22 They say that there's particles "popping into and out of existence" all the time, and that half of them are antimatter, which explains background radiation. However, if there were really that many antimatter particles being created too, and annihilating with regular matter particles, the radiation would be so intense that life as we know it would not be possible.
04:56 Hijiri the supposed reason they pop out of existence is that they're generated in pairs, then annihilate each other before they can do anything
04:56 segfault22 However, if there were really that many antimatter particles being created too, and annihilating with regular matter particles, the radiation would be so intense that life as we know it would not be possible.
04:58 Hijiri if energy is being conserved then the energy would fill in whatever energy it took to generate the pair
04:58 segfault22 Instead, the matter particles are pulled from the vacuum leaving behind a negative energy "hole", which sums to 0 when they annihilate so no radiation is produced. Then we still have those other sources (radioactive decay, neutrino collisions, cosmic rays, etc.) which already explain the presence of background radiation and in the quantities present.
04:59 Yst Hmm. So energy might be condensing into (anti-)matter, then reverting back.
04:59 Hijiri I don't think vacuum energy is supposed to explain background radiation
04:59 Yst I don't think that it is either.
04:59 segfault22 they say the "pairs" of particles explains it
04:59 Yst It explains the repulsion of galaxies against each other.
04:59 Hijiri segfault22: do you have a source?
05:00 segfault22 anywhere they have said that antimatter annihilating with matter produces gamma radiation...?
05:00 Hijiri that's not the same as saying that virtual particles cause the background radiation
05:01 segfault22 they say the virtual particles are matter and antimatter, though, and are only virtual because they don't exist very long
05:01 Hijiri wait, I was thinking of a specific background radiation, I was using the term wrong
05:01 segfault22 its okay
05:01 Hijiri but if the virtual particles don't bestow any additional energy into the universe, I don't see why they would be used to explain background radiation
05:03 segfault22 because if they say the supposed "antimatter" particles are actually negative energy, they would break one of the biggest rules of the business: don't give away the "secret sauce", ie. don't let people have knowledge that is determined they are not supposed to have
05:04 Hijiri nobody says that antimatter is negative energy
05:04 segfault22 I didn't
05:04 Hijiri oh, you're saying they are
05:04 Hijiri but that nobody says it
05:04 segfault22 No
05:05 Hijiri who is determining that people aren't supposed to have this information?
05:05 segfault22 Antimatter isn't negative energy; the "thing" they are saying is antimatter, in the "particle pair" idea, is actually something else
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05:06 segfault22 They don't talk about negative energy, because it would validate the explanation for several power-producing inventions (VTA, for example) which are said to harness "negative energy" (cold electricity), and this would be detrimental to the profits of fuel businesses because people wouldn't need fuel to get power
05:06 segfault22 Who are the "they" who actively seek to prevent the knowledge from spreading, is not definitively known
05:06 Hijiri researchers and journals would love to publish sensational pieces that deviate from the current paradigm
05:07 Hijiri so there would have to be a strong force keeping it all hidden
05:07 segfault22 it's quite strong indeed
05:07 Hijiri what's VTA?
05:07 Hijiri I don't see it on wikipedia, but maybe that is the cabal hiding the information
05:08 segfault22 Wikipedia doesn't have anything useful on this subject
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05:08 Hijiri I don't know what cold electricity is either
05:08 Hijiri oh, there's a reference to cold electricity on a tesla page
05:08 segfault22 have you heard about Floyd Sweet
05:08 Hijiri no
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05:09 segfault22 can you access google or is it blocked in your country?
05:09 Hijiri I use startpage, but I could access google
05:09 segfault22 startpage is better
05:09 segfault22 ie. ixquick
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05:15 Hijiri well, I don't think I have the background to understand or examine the theory behind this
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05:16 PsychoVision Magnets & circuits nothing to impossible
05:16 gentoobr1 joined #minetest
05:16 segfault22 That's okay
05:16 Hinsbart_ joined #minetest
05:16 PsychoVision Sorry for the interjection
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05:17 segfault22 its okay
05:18 Hijiri some of this page (http://www.cheniere.org/misc/sweet.htm) is also sketchy, like the diagram doesn't have a proper legend for what the arrows are supposed to be
05:18 PsychoVision I can smell Tesla speak a quarter mile away.. can't shut my mouth sometimes
05:19 segfault22 its fine
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05:20 segfault22 as long as you have something useful to add, and not just a bunch of that nay-saying "derp u cnat git a freee meel derp" crap
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05:22 segfault22 damn thats a lot of people logging out
05:22 PsychoVision Quite the opposite in fact, I'm super pro Tesla and all of his mind-numbing brilliance. Which I had the energy to consume all I could
05:22 Hijiri it's a netsplit
05:22 segfault22 cool, I'm glad that you're interested
05:22 PsychoVision Wish* I had the energy
05:23 Hijiri if tesla was right then you can get that energy
05:23 PsychoVision Not Which like I'm some kind-of genius or something
05:24 PsychoVision I just build his later experiments to my best in my hacker shed, nearly always fialing but every once in a while a ray of light shines though
05:25 PsychoVision It's late forgive my ridiculous spelling
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05:25 segfault22 Tesla invented a pretty neat "system of signalling" which supposedly doesn't operate on the same basis as radio, and is much more efficient (less loss over distance, or none at all) - there's even some patents on it. I plan to replicate it sometime soon, and possibly even create a wireless internet system using it
05:26 segfault22 whats most interesting is that some few decades later, some computer scientists went to get a patent for the basic logic cates like AND, OR, NOT, and they were denied because the functionality of the AND gate is a significant part of one of Tesla's "System of Signaling" patents
05:27 segfault22 the receiver only operates the output if both coil/aerial pairs are receiving a signal - the basis of AND logic
05:27 PsychoVision Awesome :D very awesome, I heard of this a while ago when listening to a YouTube video of another Tesla fan who also tries to indulge in what many of the day called dark arts or science as it is referred to now
05:29 segfault22 There's nothing about this on Wikipedia, and there probably never will be.. so I have to scavenge for information wherever I can find it.. One guy says that the size of the metal sphere aerial doesn't have to be perfect, just above some size relative to the properties of the flat coil (number of turns, wire size, etc.)
05:30 PsychoVision I wish greed did not factor into his surroundings, if it were a different circumstance e.g. money did not exist I believe we would be living in a very very different time today
05:30 segfault22 I'm going to buy some steel spheres from China some day if I can get the money, and I will use those... it won't be easy to connect the wires to them, though - I may have to use a torch or pay a welder to do it, if the copper will even have the chance to "stick" before melting off (spot welder maybe?)
05:31 PsychoVision Oxy_acetylene only way to go
05:32 PsychoVision Insta Stick
05:32 segfault22 Yes, without greed the world would already have his great technology pretty much everywhere,... free power for everyone everywhere, flying machines that don't use propellers or wings or burn any fuel, wireless communication that goes right through the earth with no drop in power,...
05:32 PsychoVision Especially with a small Miller
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05:33 PsychoVision Agreed completely Segfault22
05:33 segfault22 I don't have oxygen/acetylene, only a basic plumber's propane torch... I also have a can of Propylene that fits it, but I worry that it might screw up the plumber's torch...
05:33 segfault22 so I might just have to hire someone,... or drill a small hole in the sphere and use a screw to mount the wire in contact, maybe?...
05:34 PsychoVision Humm perhaps making some Potassium Nitrate will be sufficient 'powder version' it produces very high and fast heat
05:35 segfault22 maybe
05:35 PsychoVision Maybe the screw Idea would be better though
05:35 segfault22 I'm not sure if I have the stuff for making potassium nitrate, but I really would like to,... I hear its useful for lots more too...
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05:36 PsychoVision Ohh yeah I use it very frequently.. Also making it is simple Tree stump remover is one of the main ingredients
05:37 segfault22 Cool,... but I don't have tree stump remover...
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05:38 PsychoVision Well that puts a damper on things :) KN02 can also produce much heat but I dobut enough to do what you need
05:39 PsychoVision Usually make cheep bottle rockets and junk with Kn02
05:41 PsychoVision Anyways Keep me posted please I'm super interested to see where you go with the And logic gates or do you have a YouTube you post on by chance
05:42 segfault22 I don't post on youtube, but I might. I will let you know if I am successful with this project
05:43 PsychoVision Awesome I'm either here or in Redkitten IRC Channel.. will be back another time for sure. must hear about your progress :)
05:43 segfault22 I plan to eventually make wireless internet "tunnels" that convert ethernet packets to pulses that can be sent through the transmitter/receiver pair, and converted back to ethernet packets
05:43 segfault22 cool
05:44 PsychoVision Wow that would have some real functional presence to it, I can already think of several uses right now :D
05:44 segfault22 If I ever sell or give away some of them, I will dip the frequency tuning inductors in some kind of resin to prevent them being adjusted later - I don't want people to adjust the frequency accidentally, or make a unit designed solely to interfere with others' systems
05:46 PsychoVision how successful do you feel the "tunnels" would be in wooded areas out of curiosity?
05:48 segfault22 If they work according to Tesla's patents and submissions to science journals/magazines, they would work just as well through a forest, as through a mountain, or a cubic mile of lead, or clear air - the scattering/absorption would be minimal or none at all
05:50 segfault22 I'm thinking I could also build each unit pair to use two frequencies, and an AND gate to only output a pulse when both are active, so that there are more possible "addresses" for the possible frequency range, but then each unit would need 4 sphere-coil pairs (one for each transmitter, one for each receiver), unless there is some way to use one sphere (most expensive part) for both transmit and receive on different frequencies,... I may examine exis
05:50 segfault22 ting radio technology that uses a single antenna for simultaneous transmit/receive, however since it is a very different operating mechanism, this might not be applicable
05:50 PsychoVision so not dependent on line of sight and proximity, Me thinks we all need that especially forestry divisions and remote areas
05:51 PsychoVision geez I feel a little guilty I'm just busting though 5GHZ and 6.25 modding for continual channel life
05:52 segfault22 yes, it would be very good for everyone - we could create a free internet system based on the cjdns "meshnet"
05:53 PsychoVision Your more next gen than I am, just never have the time to sit and fiddle / explore any longer don't let that drive die
05:54 segfault22 I have lots of time because I and my family are out of work,... but we don't have much resources to work with, so I can't do much...
05:54 segfault22 I won't stop trying, though; I know this would be great for everyone, and I have always wanted to make something like this that can benefit the whole world...
05:55 PsychoVision I'm sorry to hear that indeed, intelligence rest upon those who do not have the means and stupidity rest upon those who can't seem to tie their shoes
05:56 PsychoVision And have way way way too much means
05:56 segfault22 indeed
05:59 PsychoVision Well it has been wonderful meeting you Segfault22 I and many other will know your name before your end has come that I'm certain of. I better get some rest before my words start meshing together to form illegible sentences
06:00 segfault22 thank you, it has been nice meeting you too and you're a great person. I hope you have a good rest and next day too. Thank you
06:01 PsychoVision No Problem the pleasure was all mine truly, you have a great day as well :) Good night
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06:22 segfault22 maybe I could use a duplexer or a circulator, to separate the transmit/receive signals from two different coils; however I will have to do testing to make sure that the device works with the supposed "dielectricity" happening in the system (signals but no current), either requiring a specific part that just happens to be compatible or a custom-made one...
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09:22 Megaf Heya
09:22 Megaf Good morning folks
09:23 Megaf http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=​news_item&amp;px=PostgreSQL-9.6-Ready
09:23 Megaf That looks very promising to Minetest I think
09:24 Megaf !title
09:24 MinetestBot Megaf: PostgreSQL 9.6 Preparing To Release Next Week With Its Parallel Queries Support - Phoronix
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09:39 Megaf Today I will spin up a minetest server using PostgreSQL. Let's see how it goes. It might even be a clone of my current server.
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10:34 Preuk Megaf: pg is nice, if you can afford spending a few weeks tuning it to your need
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10:59 segfault22 oh my god the dollar collaps is tomorrow!!!! waht am i gunna dooo?!?!?!!1!one
10:59 segfault22 teh*
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11:25 Jordach segfault22, top kek; we all know who the winner is on that one :^)
11:25 segfault22 ?
11:25 segfault22 which one
11:27 Jordach a staggering woman with parkinsons and an unsecured email server or the person who wants to rebuild an economy
11:27 segfault22 xD
11:28 segfault22 I think she's died already, or at least is too sick to go be in public, but theyre trying to cover it up
11:28 aix yup
11:28 aix rip
11:28 segfault22 the video compositing is bad; her image "digitals out" while the background behind her is still clear and visible with no error
11:28 Jordach https://i.redd.it/3gdj2se9gsnx.jpg
11:29 segfault22 oh wow, it really does exist! xD
11:33 * Jordach goes back to playing war thunder
11:37 segfault22 I agree
12:13 Preuk what are their respective positions regarding free software?
12:14 Preuk (not US, not concerned except by the unavoidable fallouts)
12:15 Jordach Preuk, DJT; what's best for the job - HRC; whoever "donated" the most to CF
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13:18 Megaf Jordach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=albC6Jw2GQ8
13:18 Megaf !title
13:18 MinetestBot Megaf: YouTube Content ID fail: ProleteR vs. Natey G - YouTube
13:32 Megaf oops, forgot my potatoes in the oven
13:32 Megaf can smell then
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13:48 shivajiva Seems I have an impersonator on 180.74.73.53, nice...
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15:43 Megaf Your dose of knowladge for today
15:43 Megaf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=752doTtSMKs
15:43 Megaf !title
15:43 MinetestBot Megaf: Why Do Soft Noises Make Your Brain Tingle? | The Science Behind ASMR - YouTube
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18:48 Megaf !seen Haiku
18:48 MinetestBot Megaf: haiku was last seen at 2014-11-08 17:24:19 UTC on #minetest
18:48 Megaf !seen Gronx
18:48 MinetestBot Megaf: gronx was last seen at 2013-12-27 17:26:39 UTC on #minetest
18:48 Megaf oh dear
18:48 Megaf !seen sin
18:48 MinetestBot Megaf: Sorry, I haven't seen sin around.
18:55 swift110 hey all
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20:29 Megaf !server Megaf
20:29 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/10, 0/2 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 6ms
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21:20 Ritchie please what is purpose of stable minetest releases?
21:20 Ritchie is okay to have latest stable release broken?
21:21 Ritchie because minetest_game doesn't work in that release
21:22 Ritchie https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/3c63c3044d5e4ca36c2649c530f31622581d90fd
21:24 Ritchie is problem to keep deprecated function until new stable release is out?
21:24 Ritchie https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/​blob/master/mods/default/mapgen.lua#L1471
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21:34 paramat Ritchie you should use latest stable mtgame with latest stable mtengine, then nothing is broken
21:36 Ritchie and if someone's game use mapgen_settings and I have stable engine? so what?
21:38 paramat they could provide a version of their game for use with latest stable. my mods are almost always made for use with last stable MT
21:39 Ritchie if I understand it right, then they could provide version of their game for every version of engine?
21:41 paramat they probably will not want to, but it's considerate if they provide a version for 0.4.14stable
21:44 Ritchie no
21:45 Ritchie better is to keep deprecated method some time
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21:48 paramat no ;] that's what dev is about, code changes
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21:51 paramat any problems are the responsibility of the mod or subgame author, not devs
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22:30 Ritchie your "dev" is about any change in code without think out about compatibility
22:32 Ritchie for example in 0.4.9 there were three changes in formspecs format in one engine version, every change was incompatible
22:32 Ritchie as a subgame author I would give up to maintain subgame rather than this
22:35 Ritchie just because get_mapgen_params is not cool, let's kick it out immediately without giving users and authors some time to adapt for it
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