Time Nick Message 00:02 i- it worked 00:05 MinetestBot 02[git] 04red-001 -> 03minetest/minetest: Settingtypes.txt: Clarify comments, correct spelling 13fbe4a92 https://git.io/v6jU8 (152016-08-29T01:00:05+01:00) 00:05 MinetestBot 02[git] 04SmallJoker -> 03minetest/minetest: Builtin: Disallow registering users with the same name 1351e13ae https://git.io/v6jU4 (152016-08-29T00:58:39+01:00) 00:21 MinetestBot 02[git] 04rubenwardy -> 03minetest/minetest: Fix background formspec elements from interfering with each other 1378ff5c1 https://git.io/v6jTe (152016-08-29T01:15:31+01:00) 02:29 Rate85 Hello? 02:30 Rate85 Something Is Very Wrong Here, This Place Is Usually Filled With Life... 02:30 Rate85 Why Is Nobody On IRC? 02:42 Void7 actually at least 130 people are on irc (probably) 02:42 Void7 just not very active 02:47 Rate85 I Wonder Why 03:12 paramat http://i.imgur.com/AsKvBfu.png pathv7 mod https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15423 04:03 cheapie I wonder how many people are going to "get" these product names: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20160828_230255.png 04:04 cheapie (vending machines behind a car wash) 06:10 agaran cheapie: looks nice 06:11 * cheapie takes a picture of the whole building 06:12 cheapie agaran: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20160829_011124.png 06:12 cheapie The "vending machines" in the earlier picture are behind the automatic bay. 06:15 cheapie (oh, and yes, that automatic bay does work) 06:29 thepiercingarrow hey, anyone on? 06:29 Nosrick I'm here, for now. 06:29 Nosrick What's up? 06:30 thepiercingarrow just curious, any reference for default? 06:30 thepiercingarrow im making a mod, want to know the exact names and properities of the stuff inside default, but cant find a list 06:30 Nosrick You've got two options; the Minetest dev wiki, or the lua_api.txt document in minetest/doc 06:31 thepiercingarrow they both explain the minetest object, and the modding API, but now the specs of the default modpack 06:31 Nosrick Oh! 06:31 Nosrick Just dig through the code. 06:31 Nosrick That's what I did. 06:32 thepiercingarrow ouch! okay then. xD didnt know i had to dig. thanks, then! 07:21 IhrFussel agaran, Server thread spiked to 60+% a few times but whenever it happened the debug.txt doesn't show a thing...seems like I have to enable verbose and trace output 07:40 IhrFussel With trace and verbose I feel like the log file will be larger than 1 MB in a matter of minutes haha 07:59 Megaf Good morning 07:59 Megaf [07:12:39] agaran: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20160829_011124.png 07:59 Megaf cheapie: that is cool 07:59 cheapie Thanks! 08:01 Megaf cheapie: fluxbox :) 08:01 cheapie What about it? 08:01 Megaf you use it 08:01 Megaf I saw in your screenshots 08:02 Megaf cheapie: what software is generating this graphs? https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/2015-08-07-213443_1280x1024_scrot.png 08:02 cheapie I used to. 08:02 cheapie I'm on awesome now. 08:03 cheapie rrdtool for the ones in the browser, gkrellm for the sidebar. 08:03 Megaf nice server case you have 08:03 Megaf xP 08:03 Megaf https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/IMG_20151015_131415700_HDR.jpg 08:04 cheapie Yep, I have one server that's all nice and 3 that aren't. 08:05 Megaf imagine how many Raspberries you could fit in there https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/IMG_20151102_145338767_HDR.jpg 08:05 Megaf and you have those giant capacitors, cool! 08:06 cheapie I have some giant HV-ish ones, and then a bunch of 350F@2.7V supercaps. 08:14 Megaf anyone else getting 2016-08-29 05:10:51: [CurlFetch] servers.minetest.net/announce not found (Timeout was reached) (response code 0)? 08:21 agaran IhrFussel: can be, I saw 150lag today 08:26 IhrFussel agaran, since the restart? 08:28 agaran no , before 08:55 IhrFussel agaran, alright what's the current lag like? 08:58 agaran 1.5 09:05 IhrFussel 1.5 is the step interval I specified so zero lag right now 09:06 agaran and it works well yes 09:06 Calinou 1.5 is a huge step interval 09:06 Calinou I suggest never setting it higher than 0.2 09:06 nosrick Morning folks 09:07 IhrFussel Calinou, usually I have it set to 0.6 but I thought a higher server step interval would eliminate the lag...it didn't so it must be something about loading/saving contents 09:08 Calinou IhrFussel: does your server have a SSD? it can help 09:09 IhrFussel Calinou, the server provider states on the vserver page a SSD with 300 GB space yes 09:10 IhrFussel Also I already got to the point that it's only caused by the Server thread of the game not ConnectionSend, ConnectionReceive or Emerge-0 09:13 IhrFussel It is sudden spikes in CPU % usage...nothing constant, it happens at completely irregular times and the impact of the spikes is always different..sometimes the Server thread jumps from 5% to 60% for a few seconds, other times it only jumps to 30 or 40...but it's mostly below 10 09:18 IhrFussel And the most important fact: It did NOT lag back in May on the EXACT same hardware and exact same heavy mods ( I added a few light ones but the lags even occur with no mods enabled)...I'm strongly thinking it is something in the DB or map file 09:20 IhrFussel DB and map file are the same so DB* 09:20 agaran IhrFussel: 19.3 now 09:36 agaran IhrFussel: 17. 10:06 IhrFussel agaran, --trace option only shows connection debug right? That is way too much...I think info and verbose streams are enough that's why I restart 10:20 IhrFussel agaran, --info and --verbose seem to not be logged in debug.txt or I missed a conf setting...now I redirect the output to a verbose.txt file, should work nopw 10:21 segfault22 LinuxMint uses the SystemD spyware so I have to get rid of it 10:22 agaran IhrFussel: I never played with those so far... I thought that bookmarks are for teleporting but apparently not 10:27 IhrFussel agaran, I never did either, but the output is so detailed now it should tell us what's wrong 10:28 segfault22 I opened the back-panel on my mini fridge and accidentally touched one of the transistor heatsinks while holding the panel, and it shocked me... is it bad when a transistor is leaking electricity out the heatsink? 10:54 lumidify Hi, is there a way for a mod/subgame to put all its custom world-specific save files into a separate directory inside the world directory? 10:54 Calinou I think that yes, you can put mod files in world dir 10:54 Calinou not sure how 10:55 lumidify I know how to put it into the world dir, but, to keep them separate from the rest, I want to put them into another folder inside the world folder. 10:55 lumidify Just for organization. 11:21 segfault22 you could make the folder a modpack, putting the mod folders in a single folder and in the single folder put a text file "modpack.txt" 11:22 segfault22 the text file can be empty, it just has to be there, then the mod-loader will treat all sub-folders as mod folders and iterate through them just like it would in the mods folder where the modpack folder is 11:29 FreeFull segfault22: What will you use instead? FreeBSD? 11:29 segfault22 Void Linux 11:30 FreeFull Can it run minetest? 11:30 segfault22 even though most of this software is only good until the end of electricity when earth returns to a state of balanced magnetics, I don't want SystemD 11:30 segfault22 well of course its a linux-based OS 11:31 FreeFull There definitely are linux distros incapable of running minetest 11:31 FreeFull At least not without heavy work 11:31 segfault22 it looks like its an entirely separate project, not a fork, so I am not sure 11:32 segfault22 they have a minetest 0.4.14 in their sources though, maybe they can support it 11:32 FreeFull Void Linux probably can run Minetest, assuming you can get irrlicht to work 11:32 segfault22 ahahaha irrlicht 11:33 segfault22 oh, well it looks like they have it too... no ha 11:33 Megaf segfault22: do they have a default DE? 11:33 segfault22 DE? 11:34 segfault22 means different things for different people, please specify... 11:34 segfault22 desktop environment ok 11:34 Megaf yep 11:34 FreeFull The wikipedia article says you can pick your DE 11:37 Megaf https://wiki.voidlinux.eu/Post_Installation 11:38 Megaf Void looks like what Arch used to be back in Arch Linux 0.7x# 11:41 lumidify segfault22: I was actually talking about saving files in the world directory, so in worlds/myworld. You can do that, but I don't know how to organize it into different folders. 11:43 segfault22 I thought you were "talking" about putting mods in the world's (not worlds) folder and keeping them organized 11:43 segfault22 not really "talking" here, are we? is anyone? 11:43 segfault22 I have used that word wrong for way too long 11:43 segfault22 we are not talking, we are,... uh... 11:44 segfault22 I don't know 11:44 lumidify Fine, *typing* :P 11:44 segfault22 no typing is what you do to form the message, what we're doing involves sending a fully-typed message or messages 11:44 lumidify IRCing 11:45 segfault22 yeah 11:47 segfault22 but maybe its better to, instead of saying "talking" or "IRCing" when you are IRCing about someone IRCing something else, like "thought you were IRCing about ", better to say "thought you meant " 11:48 lumidify Or you could say "who cares?" :P 11:48 segfault22 so you don't have to say was/were or about, and its shorter 11:48 segfault22 yeah, who cares 11:49 segfault22 "thought you were whocares-ing about " 11:49 segfault22 < just kidding > 11:49 lumidify :P 11:52 segfault22 I was thinking about implementing an energy system mod for the game, but now I'm worried about losing the ability to produce electricity when earth reverts to a state of balanced magnetics so I have to create it in real-life too... 11:53 segfault22 you forgot to say "WTF" 12:32 segfault22 I won't use Void Linux because there's too much crap to set up the desktop environment 12:34 rubenwardy lumidify: minetest.mkdir(minetest.get_worldpath() .. "/folder_for_mod") 12:34 rubenwardy then eg: io.open(minetest.get_worldpath() .. "/folder_for_mod/file.txt", "w") 12:35 lumidify Oh, thanks! 12:35 rubenwardy also, you should check that mkdir returns true 12:35 lumidify I was looking at ways to do it in Lua, but didn't realize that Minetest had a nice utility function. 12:35 rubenwardy if not minetest.mkdir(minetest.get_worldpath() .. "/folder_for_mod") then error("Unable to create dir!") end 12:35 lumidify *plain Lua 12:35 lumidify Okay, thanks 12:35 rubenwardy really the Minetest API should encourage this 12:37 lumidify Hmm, isn't minetest.mkdir documented on dev.minetest.net? 12:40 rubenwardy dev.minetest.net is not the offical documentation 12:40 rubenwardy it's community managed 12:40 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/lua_api.html is the offical documentation 12:41 lumidify Okay, yeah, I guess I should have looked at lua_api.txt first. 12:43 segfault22 not sure if unity-linux supports minetest and eclipse, or I'll have to make it all 12:43 segfault22 not sure if or 12:44 rubenwardy Linux using the Unity wm can run Minetest... 12:44 Calinou there's also the Unity game engine :p 12:45 segfault22 http://unitylinux.com/index.php?id=about 12:45 rubenwardy don't see why it wouldn't work 12:45 rubenwardy just need to get the dependencies 12:46 rubenwardy on older systems (like, 1998) getting libz or whatever to work may be a problem 12:46 rubenwardy I tried running Minetest an old laptop I had - Celeron processor, 16MB of RAM, 4GB hard drive 12:47 rubenwardy didn't work, unfortunately 12:47 agaran 16M ram? maybe in textmode it would work;) 12:47 Calinou libcaca back-end! 12:48 rubenwardy I could run this 2D city building game, I forget the name 12:48 rubenwardy not sim city 12:48 segfault22 I have a newer computer system that I built, inside an old beige ATX case - it has 8GB RAM GHz CPU/GPU hybrid (2-core) and 2TB hard drive, so no system limits are really a problem 12:48 rubenwardy you'd place roads etc, and police stations and fire stations 12:48 segfault22 3GHz 12:48 Calinou OpenTTD? 12:48 rubenwardy no 12:48 rubenwardy 1 sec 12:48 segfault22 my key isnt working 12:48 rubenwardy I may still have the disc 12:48 segfault22 # 12:50 segfault22 yay 12:50 rubenwardy no can't find it 12:50 segfault22 aww 12:52 segfault22 maybe I should make my own Linux distro, that is entirely centered on Minetest 12:53 agaran Calinou: openttd is awesome 12:54 segfault22 it would have Minetest by default and updated via package manager, Eclipse LDT and Eclipse CDT for working with mods and the engine, GEdit with Lua syntax highlighting enabled by default, GIMP for making your textures and such, etc etc etc 12:55 lumidify GEdit? Why not Emacs? 12:56 rubenwardy lol 12:59 aix Emacs? Why not butterflies? 13:00 segfault22 emacs is hipster, cinnamon is hipster, is hipster 13:00 lumidify Nah, I just set the universal constants, it's easier than the butterflies 13:01 segfault22 is Vector Linux "good"? 13:05 segfault22 oh my god, LINUX IS SKYNET 13:07 agaran vi, only vi.. 13:07 lumidify Coming soon to Minetest: the editor wars! 13:08 agaran lumidify: my pick is more stone than yours;) 13:09 FreeFull kakoune 13:14 segfault22 Okay i'm going to use Puppy Linux 13:16 segfault22 yuck, furries 13:20 rubenwardy wtf is a furry anyway 13:29 segfault22 rubenwardy, you dont wanna know 13:29 segfault22 but I have to tell you because we have to prevent them from taking over 13:29 rubenwardy it seems that it's just people that dress up as animals. I don't see wants wrong with that 13:30 nosrick They tend to sexualise animal traits. 13:30 segfault22 they get nasty, posting comic pr0n and vore everywhere, and they are violent against anyone who doesn't accept or support their beliefs 13:30 segfault22 and yes, what nosrick said, but they take it a lot further than that... I will not elaborate. 13:31 rubenwardy ah, well dressing up as animals is cool, but bestiality isn't 13:32 segfault22 well they can't have one without the other, its integrated into their belief system (kinda like sharia law and islam) 13:32 rubenwardy meh 13:33 rubenwardy I can see why a kid would want to be, say, a lion in a video game even if they're not a furry 13:34 arecascino shamoanjac: nosrick: anything that needs my attention? 13:35 agaran rubenwardy: may I ask something 'bot lua/luajit? 13:35 rubenwardy not sure what you mean by "bot lua/luajit" 13:35 rubenwardy oh, about 13:35 rubenwardy sure, I guess 13:36 nosrick arecascino, there was an update last night. Bug fixes and content! 13:36 arecascino alright 13:37 agaran rubenwardy: I have something like filter-entries() that filters entries by criteria.. and I am unsure what is more efficient, pass criteria name and value as argument of function.. or pass function that evaluates to true/false so it is more flexible. Mostly I'd like to know if I lose much efficiency on passing function.. 13:37 arecascino nosrick: what branch? 13:38 nosrick master 13:38 rubenwardy not using a function would be faster, but depending on context optimisation might not be needed 13:38 rubenwardy "premature optimisation is the route of all evils" or smth 13:38 nosrick Develop will update every few hours (probably), but is almost guaranteed to be a pile of shit 13:39 agaran rubenwardy: I know, but I have little clue about lua, in C, I would use objdump to see what resulting assembly is... 13:40 agaran it will be evaluating like 300-400 tables with 2+ entries each and that has to be quick.. (network rescan on edit/delete) 13:42 segfault22 I used to have Vista on the machine which I will be using for a server, except it was only available as 32bit and the machine is capable of 64bit 13:42 segfault22 so I switched to linux to get to use those other 32 bits 13:42 segfault22 4 bytes 13:43 agaran rubenwardy: but maybe you are right, do code, put measurement of execution time in there, check if you need to tweak 13:45 segfault22 is puppy linux good? 13:47 segfault22 is puppy linux good for minetest and eclipseLDT? 13:47 Preuk segfault22: does it fetch? 13:47 segfault22 xD 13:47 Preuk it's not worse than another one, it's just specifics there 13:48 Preuk if you're new to linux, i'd advise a more "mainstream" distro, i mean one with a big userbase and a lot of resources (Q&A, wiki, docs, etc.) 13:48 segfault22 I have used linux for some time but I have not modified it heavily... 13:49 segfault22 I am concerned about the SystemD spyware/backdoor situation (scope creep, my-way-or-the-highway attitude from devs when this was never the way before, opaque binary blob, etc) 13:49 Preuk thumb rule : if distro tag is on first page of tag list on http://superuser.com/tags it's good to go :) 13:50 Preuk well, for "pure" distros, it's a bit more confidential 13:50 segfault22 Since Ubuntu is using SystemD I have to also find a distribution that can be installed to run command-line only for a server machine 13:51 Preuk (hell, they removed most distro-specific tags) 13:51 Preuk ubuntu-server :p 13:51 Preuk arch is nice for that, as is gentoo (big user base, freedom of choice) 13:52 Preuk but you might sweat bullets for a few weeks before you feel home there 13:52 segfault22 lol 13:57 segfault22 I am seeing on the website some editions that are reduced to have no graphical interface, just the CLI 13:57 segfault22 but they are from 2013 13:59 agaran I have my debian without systemd.. but thats /me 13:59 segfault22 cool 14:00 segfault22 however I am worried that as soon as some new package gets required for something else to work, said new package will depend on SystemD and force it to be installed without you being able to do anything else except just not update ever again... 14:01 sfan5 >I am concerned about the SystemD spyware/backdoor situation 14:01 sfan5 can you move your anti-systemd shilling back to /tech/? 14:01 segfault22 its not shilling 14:01 segfault22 I have good reasons 14:01 sfan5 spyware/backdoor is not one of them 14:01 rubenwardy Just don't let sof ar see them :) 14:02 rubenwardy without the space 14:02 segfault22 how can you prove that SystemD is not malware? 14:02 rubenwardy because it's open source? 14:02 sfan5 how can you prove that it is malware? 14:02 segfault22 we can't, we can only discern what it may be based on how it has behaved, and the behavior of the developers 14:03 sfan5 lmao 14:03 rubenwardy Same way you can prove Linux isn't malware 14:03 rubenwardy by linux I mean the kernel, but applies also to all areas 14:04 segfault22 as long as Linus Torvalds is alive, we can rely on the kernel to be "safe" 14:05 segfault22 as in, not deliberately designed to be insecure 14:06 segfault22 upstart was fine and very useful, then one day the developers abandoned it and that's the excuse for switching to the new-and-updated SystemD 14:07 segfault22 upstart still works, but you can't find it in the package manager any more. For what other reason would they remove it if people may want to use it and its still usable, other than to prevent people from using it? 14:07 sfan5 they removed it because they didn't want to maintain it 14:07 sfan5 that simple 14:08 segfault22 the koolaid is good for some sheeple but I am not one. 14:08 sfan5 ok you can stop shilling now 14:09 segfault22 upstart was fine, there was no problem with maintaining it. SystemD is far more complex than upstart ever was, and the scope has creeped all over the place 14:09 behalebabo segfault22: apt show upstart 14:09 behalebabo apt show upstart-sysv 14:09 Preuk segfault22: do what real men do, switch to *BSD 14:09 segfault22 E: Unable to locate package upstart-sysv 14:10 behalebabo what OS version do you have? 14:10 * Preuk runs away laughting maniacaly 14:10 rubenwardy maybe sofar could pitch in here :D 14:10 segfault22 trying to get upstart-sysv from the archive, the package manager tells you that there are unsatisfied dependencies. trying to install those dependencies results in conflicts. Oh the version is linux mint 17.3 14:11 segfault22 I could just uninstall systemd without changing anything else, and hope it works 14:11 segfault22 else install puppy linux and get rid of it 14:12 behalebabo In Ubuntu 16.04 upstart-sysv simply requires a removal of the systemd-sysv and ubuntu-standard packages 14:13 behalebabo perhaps Mint is misconfigured 14:13 segfault22 perhaps 14:13 segfault22 I haven't configured anything related to the package manager, though, so it would be misconfigured by default 14:14 behalebabo Mint has it's own repositories as well 14:14 segfault22 yes, I have noticed that 14:15 segfault22 its too much problems, I'll just go ahead and use puppy linux 14:16 behalebabo There is also https://devuan.org/ 14:16 segfault22 cool 14:17 segfault22 if it has a minimal installation, for CLI only server, that will be great 14:17 behalebabo IIRC you can select to not install X during debian install 14:18 segfault22 cool 14:18 segfault22 devuan even has an .onion site for installing/updating through the tor darknet, c00l 14:18 behalebabo debian does as well 14:19 segfault22 would it be unreasonable to make a fork of minetest where it is configured to route all traffic through tor? 14:19 behalebabo yes 14:19 behalebabo that much traffic would be a great load on tor, and very slow 14:19 segfault22 it would be slow and burden the network, right? 14:20 segfault22 ok I wont do it 14:20 behalebabo stuff like torrenting or games don't work well with tor 14:21 segfault22 if SystemD is safe and all-good, why are so many people refusing to use it, why have so many developers left from projects that now use it, and why are there so many distributions that are designed specifically to prevent it being installed? 14:21 sfan5 segfault22: yes it would be unreasonable because it wont fucking work 14:21 sfan5 tor doesnt do udp 14:22 behalebabo there are difficult ways to do that, sfan5 14:22 behalebabo such as https://www.whonix.org/wiki/Tunnel_UDP_over_Tor 14:23 Preuk 3000ms lag sounds great 14:23 sfan5 you need a vpn for that 14:23 segfault22 https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2195/2323907359_7ded67bccb.jpg 14:24 agaran Preuk: only ?;) 14:26 segfault22 TCP liquid Directions: 1. soak cotton wool with TCP 2. apply to affected area of patient 3. make sure it helped; if not, repeat. UDP liquid Directions: 1. open bottle 2. flick liquid in general direction of patient 3. bugger off 14:27 segfault22 is it not funny?... :C 14:27 Preuk :) 14:27 Preuk nice analogy 14:27 segfault22 :D 14:28 Preuk what about a PBEM net connector, like freeciv does ? 14:28 Preuk play 3 seconds, send mail, wiat for other players, retreive mails, play 3 seconds... 14:28 agaran Preuk: i'd rather use affected-blocks count.. than seconds 14:30 segfault22 is it reasonable to use a globalstep function to iterate through a list of "producer" machines connected to "consumer" machines, transferring some amount of power from each producer to the connected consumer(s) if there is any available (1 globalstep = every 0.05s)? 14:30 Preuk reminds me of a (pretty old) web game that synced by getting a static data file updated by server based on client events 14:31 Preuk segfault22: too fast, i'd advise you to use bigger "packets" with lower frequency 14:31 Preuk and use buffers on both sides 14:31 segfault22 buffers? 14:32 Preuk consumer gets a buffer that can run process for say 2-5 seconds 14:32 Preuk and consume only local (buffer) resources 14:32 segfault22 I was just going to use arithmetic to measure how much power should move from the producer's storage to the consumer's storage, is that a buffer? 14:32 Preuk transfer should then be done from producer to buffer with a lower frequency 14:33 Preuk depends on your need 14:33 Preuk for accurate simulation i don't know the engine weel enought to answer 14:33 segfault22 okay, should I try to make it run every other globalstep, or every fourth globalstep, or is there some other way to run the function at interfals greater than 0.05s (globalstep) and less than 1s (abm) 14:34 Preuk but for a "gamey" system, it's better to cheat and stremline process a bit 14:34 agaran segfault22: you need to find balance between physically accurate system and playability.. 14:34 Preuk abm interval sounds good enough for any playable system 14:35 Preuk any high frequency system won't be noticeable (unless perfs drop) by players 14:35 segfault22 right, this won't be accurate to reality because magnetic resonance power systems don't exist yet 14:35 agaran if you dive into van der walls equations to simulate proper energy effort for steam compression to determine how much energy it actually stores.. you may get physics award recognition.. but not playable stuff 14:35 segfault22 xD 14:36 aix where do we schematics go? 14:36 segfault22 I'm just going to make a very simple power system, but I don't want to use an ABM (like technic) because it makes it look like the system is slow 14:37 sfan5 aix: you decide for yourself 14:37 Preuk segfault22: as i said, use high frequency simulation where it's noticeable (inside each component when monitoring) 14:37 Preuk and low granularity for general processing 14:38 Preuk say you use ABM for power packet transfer between producers/processors/whatever 14:39 Preuk and a local buffer for each processor that can hold about 5sec worth of resource 14:40 Preuk updating this local buffer once per second (or 2 seconds ever) should be enough to keep it running smoothly, even if processing itself need 0.05sec steps for processing 14:41 Preuk best part is you can not even use globalsteps unless player is really close or even using processor form 14:41 segfault22 globalsteps are valid for loaded chunks, right? 14:42 Preuk there can bit quite a lot of loaded chunks 14:43 Preuk when setting up and tuning, it is indeed nice to have accurate mertrics, to fine tune and optimize everything 14:44 rubenwardy segfault22, globalsteps aren't per map block 14:44 Preuk but when your supply line is up and running, who care if internal steps simulation is updated every 10 seconds as long as final product keep flowing ? 14:44 rubenwardy global steps are run every dedicated_server_step (by default 0.1 s) 14:44 rubenwardy you may mean abm 14:45 segfault22 globalsteps are VALID for loaded chunks, right? 14:45 rubenwardy no, they have nothing to do with chunks 14:45 segfault22 ABM is still too slow 14:45 rubenwardy use the setting to make ABMs run more often - by default the min inteval is 1s 14:46 segfault22 what setting? 14:46 segfault22 interval can be only an integer representing seconds. anything less that 1 defaults to 1. 14:46 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/minetest.conf.example#L1010 14:46 rubenwardy the interval is a float, it's just that the code by default only runs abms once a second 14:47 rubenwardy also, take a look at node timers 14:47 rubenwardy http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/lua_api.html#nodetimerref 14:48 segfault22 I didn't know there was a node timer system, is that new? 14:48 segfault22 like it hasn't been around before 0.4.4 14:49 segfault22 I noticed there's a problem with using globalstep for the power transfer function - it will try to transfer power for nodes that are not loaded. 14:50 segfault22 node timer looks promising, but it regrettably won't be as simple as iterating through a list of producers connected to consumers. 14:51 rubenwardy a global step is equivalent to doing function foo() minetest.after(0.1, foo) end; minetest.after(0.1, foo) 14:52 rubenwardy it runs a function once every server step 14:52 rubenwardy not per node or map block or map chunk or map sector or anything else 14:52 rubenwardy infact, minetest.after was implemented in lua using global step 14:52 segfault22 the timer will be implemented for producers, on_timer will iterate through the producer's list of connected consumers, first counting them and then transferring an amount of power based on the throughput of the conduit divided by the number of consumers... 14:53 segfault22 what you mean minetest.after() isn't called only once? That breaks my function to close my open files when the game starts, because its trying to close them forever 14:53 segfault22 new problem,... 14:54 segfault22 Is there a way to call a function only once after the game-server is initiated? 14:54 rubenwardy global step runs a function once every server step 14:54 segfault22 yes 14:54 rubenwardy so actually it's not equivalent due to the map shut down problem 14:55 segfault22 okay it doesnt have to be equivalent because I'm not going to use it, is there a way to run a function only once at the time the game-server is initiated (after mods load) 14:56 rubenwardy minetest.after(0, function() end) will run a function once, on the first ever server step 14:56 rubenwardy if you call it when the mod loads 14:58 segfault22 so minetest.after() doesn't run every globalstep or few globalsteps? 14:58 segfault22 if so then my code for closing the files is fine as it is, no change is needed. 14:59 segfault22 I will be using the node timer, thank you for telling me about it because I didn't know it exists 14:59 segfault22 not for closing my files, but for the power transfer thing 15:00 rubenwardy no, minetest.after runs a function once on the first server tick after the time elapses 15:01 segfault22 okay, thank you 15:47 IhrFussel agaran, it's a LOT to read...I only added the lines from just before the lags...only when CPU spiked to 60+% http://pastebin.com/9FkvH6c8 15:49 agaran IhrFussel: hmm.. looks like sending a lot of data to client plus bulk metadata updates? 15:53 IhrFussel agaran, I'd more towards meta data changes...that would at least explain why it still happens after removing mods, after setting server steps higher, even after recompiling...meta data is saved in the map.sqlite file AFAIK 15:53 IhrFussel I'd lean* 15:55 IhrFussel And yes I can confirm that the ENTIRE Server thread HANGS when it happens...cause there is not 1 single log entry at the time the lags occur 15:55 agaran yep, maybe its good to find how much metadata are there, or maybe trying to change database from sqlite to postgres if it uses indexing.. 15:57 IhrFussel agaran, can you even migrate to another DB type with an existing world? 15:57 agaran I see no reason why not.. 15:58 agaran if nothing else there is sql-translator.. it can port your db design from mysql to oracle/postgres and whatever else 16:10 IhrFussel Question to experts: Does the node meta data update on each server step? Or in realtime? I mean internally 16:13 red-001 isn't #minetest-dev the place for questions like that? 16:14 red-001 also what do you mean by update? 16:16 IhrFussel red-001, like does the engine only read/write node data from/to the DB on each server step or also in between? For example when server step is set to 1.0 will it mean the node data in the DB is only updated once per second? 16:21 IhrFussel The actual problem: It seems like the lag spikes in my server are caused by many node_meta_data changes...so I'm wondering whether the engine actually stores all meta data changes in memory and updates the DB only after the next server step or if that happens anytime in between too 16:21 agaran IhrFussel: even if core stores data in database, it is not saved until sync is happening, though you can call fsync(), for that solution would be temporarly move db to some absolutely fast medium like shm, but SSD is not much slower.. 16:22 agaran IhrFussel: other solution is use other database and see if problem persist.. 16:24 IhrFussel agaran, no I'm wondering if my approach is just the exact WRONG direction...I thought increasing the server step interval would help reducing lag but maybe DEcreasing the interval would help IN CASE meta data changes only happen once per server step 16:24 agaran hmm that canbe true, and to find out one needs to find where metadata sync code is.. 16:26 IhrFussel Cause if the engine only updates nodes + their meta data once per server step it would mean the game right now actually WAITS 1.5 seconds and gets maybe overloaded with the meta data changes before it can update everything and clear resources 16:28 Krock PC shut down the 2nd time (within a week) for no obvious reason. Is this a bag sign? :( 16:28 agaran hmm all data are in blocks table.. metadata and everthing else.. 16:28 Krock *bad 16:28 red-001 wouldn't the game seem laggier the longer time between server steps anyway? 16:28 agaran Krock: any odd noises? 16:28 Jordach Krock,check the power button on the front isn't getting stuck 16:28 Jordach or your temps 16:28 Krock agaran, none 16:29 agaran Krock: odd, for me such usuall was failing power supply or mainboard capacitors getting dead 16:29 Krock Jordach, already checked that one. A-ok. The temps are very low, measuring 42°C average temp for CPU 16:29 Jordach Krock, check power buttons connection to the mobo 16:29 red-001 check if the power cable is not loose properly 16:29 Krock hmm. Then it might me the latter one 16:29 Krock caps drying out 16:30 red-001 ignore the last word 16:30 Krock hehe 16:30 * Krock quit (Remote host closed connection) 16:30 IhrFussel To find that out I'll just reduce the server step interval to a minimum... red-001 , it updates the world actions slower yes but internally it should still accept any input...I'll just set it to 0.3 on next server restart 16:31 Jordach Krock, no, not funny - quassel has arrows on part / join 16:49 Krock Jordach, and stars (*) for ACTION? 16:59 segfault22 is it okay to change the dedicated_server_step from 0.1 to like 0.05 16:59 segfault22 or even 0.01 or 0.005 17:04 segfault22 this wont be running on an old intel i960 or something, I'm going to host te server on a machine with a 2GHz AMD Athlon X2 64 processor, 160GB main hard drive and identical for backup, and 7GB RAM (even though the system was only designed to run a maximum 4GB RAM (possibly because it was the maximum available back then, and they thought "well then this is the physical limit to how much RAM you can put in it anyways, no sense saying it can support m 17:04 segfault22 ore, even though it really can" and technology marches on) it looks like it can handle the 7GB just fine 17:04 segfault22 THE 17:04 segfault22 damn KEYBPOARD 17:05 Calinou segfault22: sure, feel free to set it to 0.05 17:05 Calinou it'll make other player movement appear smoother for example 17:05 segfault22 okay good :D 17:06 Calinou there is not much point in going below 17:06 segfault22 tank you 17:06 segfault22 thank 17:06 segfault22 my H-key is messing up, so is the E key and both 3 keys... 17:11 segfault22 You know how when you turn on a laser-pointer (or an LED with a proper waveguide), the light goes out in a nearly perfectly straight beam, but when you put your finger over the opening it lights up the whole end of your finger? its kinda like how optical fibers work,... now if you take a whole bunch of those LEDs or lasers, and put them right next to a light-detector of the corresponding frequency, you make a sort of true optical keyboard, where th 17:11 segfault22 e light is only conducted to the light-detector when your finger is close enough to the LED/laser to reflect the light internally enough to reach where the detector is 17:13 segfault22 not nearly as complicated as making one of those light-based "keyboards" that projects an image of the "keys" onto some surface and detects when your finger is "pressing" one, but it would be more reliable (if tuned properly) so that it won't think your finger is pressing several keys just because its hovering over more than one 17:25 Krock got an "interesting" link in one of my new recieved possibly-spam mails: https://survey.andreldm.com/index.php?r=survey/index&sid=1 17:25 Krock was anyone else here pointed to that site too? 17:26 rubenwardy not seen that 17:26 agaran neither me 17:26 Krock it seems that they mass-mail everybody who ever contributed to a popular open source project 17:26 segfault22 well I'm glad someone is interested in how C++ stuff gets developed 17:26 rubenwardy I get quite a few emails "offering jobs" 17:27 segfault22 but its not nice to mass-mail right? kinda like how its not nice to mass-destruct? 17:27 Krock yeah, me too. Another guy found my long-lost 6 million dollar and only wanted to know my credit card number 17:27 Krock seems legit 17:27 Krock *cough* 17:27 agaran lmao 17:33 segfault22 lool 17:34 segfault22 I'm getting this weird graphical problem in Eclipse, where a line of code is in the wrong place or some characters are doubled-up, except when I click on it or scroll away and back, it goes back to normal 17:35 rubenwardy ew eclipse ;) 17:37 octacian lol I'm currently having a discussion about inventories. It's getting quite heated... :D 17:39 Krock apt-get remove eclipse 17:39 Krock or was it uninstall? 17:39 Krock nvm, you see what I mean 17:40 rubenwardy this will free 1.6 GB of space. Are you sure? [y/N] 17:40 agaran lol 17:41 rubenwardy I feel like there's a your mama joke in here somewhere 17:42 agaran not really, just amount of space that eclipse might indeed take is funny 17:43 segfault22 I might use something other than eclipse someday, that is if that something is ever having an interface as good as or better than eclipse, and depending on how easy it is to use compared to eclipse 17:44 rubenwardy I personally use Intellij, even though I have a feeling it's not completely foss 17:44 rubenwardy nice interface though 17:44 segfault22 currently, everything else has the advantage of taking less space, but setting it up is so much trouble, you're better off writing it onto the hard-drive platters with a magnetic pen 17:45 segfault22 oh and yeah, most of the alternatives aren't FSF-compliant 18:56 Calinou rubenwardy: IntelliJ/PyCharm Community Edition are not completely FOSS indeed - they have a few proprietary libraries 18:56 Calinou but the base code is Apache 2.0 18:56 Calinou obviously, the Ultimate Editions are proprietary 19:35 Nosrick Got a quick question for anyone who has experience importing models into Minetest. 19:35 Nosrick Why is it rotated all weird? 19:49 Nosrick Never mind, turns out that .x is a crap format anyway 19:50 Calinou Nosrick: prefer .b3d, it is smaller 19:50 Nosrick Can't be edited, though 19:50 Nosrick I'm using .obj 19:50 KaadmY Nosrick: .x has major animation problems, too 19:50 KaadmY it did for me at least 19:52 Nosrick Thanks for the tip! 19:54 Calinou .obj has no animation support :P 19:55 KaadmY i think it can do armatures 19:55 KaadmY not sure how though 20:07 segfault22 I have this function to look for a certain table within a table, based on the first value in the inner table, then find some other value in the inner table and return it. currently it uses ipairs and iterates through the whole outer table until it finds the inner table with the specified first entry. Is there a better way to do this? 20:20 * twoelk seems to have wrecked his firefox during updating 20:21 Passant hi there, i have someone who wanna know how to split stack using the android minetest client. since i only played on desktop 'til now i have no idea so i though i just ask for him here :) 20:36 segfault22 ipairs machine it is 20:41 segfault22 is there a way I can make /dev/urandom fetch data from some atmospheric noise RNG site? 20:42 segfault22 better yet, if I get a quantum flux RNG device, connect it via USB, can I make /dev/urandom use it? 20:43 aix segfault22: hire some typists 20:43 segfault22 ... 20:44 Nosrick Anyone got any tutorials on world generation? 20:44 aix ...to write a PRNG for you 20:44 segfault22 nevermind, I'll go write my own OS with an opened hard drive and a magnetic pen now... 20:44 aix lol 20:44 aix and butterflies 20:44 aix don't forget that 20:44 segfault22 ... ... ... 20:44 aix though i guess you could use emacs 20:44 segfault22 xD 20:44 aix one of my favourite comics 20:45 segfault22 but all deh pr05 use the magnetic pen method 20:53 segfault22 the leather armies have prevailed, the Phantom Lord has never failed; smoke is lifting from the ground, the rising volume metal sound 20:53 Passant nevermind, i found an issue on github, thanks anyway 21:10 segfault22 I have found this problem where I can't specify a table key (the thing in square brackets) to take the value from a variable,... it treats the variable name as the key 21:11 segfault22 Lua is not the best after all 21:12 segfault22 the only way to force the key in square brackets [] to take a value from something else, is to make YET ANOTHER function which returns that value... 21:22 behalebabo eh? can you give an example? 21:22 behalebabo you could also try wrapping the variable in parentheses 21:23 segfault22 okay 21:23 segfault22 maybe that will work 21:25 segfault22 there is something wrong with my code 21:26 segfault22 I was just using a different function for each possible key, as there were only 4 possible keys for the application 21:26 segfault22 maybe I should leave it as it is 21:30 segfault22 it works!!! 21:30 segfault22 Thank you!! 21:35 segfault22 behalebabo you helped me turn 36 lines of code into only 12! this is considerably more space-efficient, and elegant. Thank you :D 21:36 behalebabo np :) 21:40 Ronsor will someone play minetest with me, yet again? because i need to do something fun now cuz comcast boxes are obviously cheap 21:45 segfault22 maybe you should host a server 21:50 segfault22 there's also several servers with many people online, maybe you could have fun there 21:50 segfault22 oh and note that comcast is a scam/ripoff company, they have countless bad ratings on ratings sites from people they've screwed 21:52 Ronsor i do host a server 21:52 Ronsor and i know comcast is scam 21:52 Ronsor we also have att uverse 21:52 Ronsor which also sucks 21:52 Ronsor gotta wait for that GFiber 21:52 Ronsor and my server is: ron-sor.net port 30000, default password: ronsorminetest 21:52 Ronsor so yes i host a server 21:53 segfault22 cool :D 21:54 Ronsor ever since 0.4.12 was relevant too 21:55 segfault22 you know the ISPs have been using terabytes/s fiber optic for a long time now, the only reason they are letting people have GBit speeds now is because they cheap out on network infrastructure, most notably the DSLAM/multiplexers, because they like to pocket most of the money people pay for the service instead of using the money to actually support and upgrade the infrastructure 21:58 Ronsor oh hey a forest fire 22:10 Ronsor how to stop a minetest forest fire 22:10 Ronsor ... 22:10 Ronsor http://prntscr.com/cbv68c 22:19 Ronsor well my town is dead 22:20 Calinou Ronsor: disable_fire = true 22:20 Calinou in minetest.conf 22:20 Calinou that won't undo damage though :P 22:28 Ronsor yeah 22:28 Ronsor tat's an issue 22:28 Ronsor its too late 22:28 Ronsor half the town is burnt 22:30 Ronsor also i found worledit 22:30 Ronsor can do that 22:46 Ronsor hi Yst 22:55 Yst Greetings, Ronsor! 23:02 Jordach !tell Krock yes 23:02 MinetestBot Jordach: yeah, sure, whatever 23:02 KaadmY :P 23:03 Jordach i'm reverse engineering old 1980's proprietary connectors due to them being unicorn rare 23:04 Jordach and having a suitable 3d printing replacement 23:04 Yst Hmm. It seems that MinetestBot has a bit of an attitude these days. 23:04 Yst Jordach: What do you need those connectors for, if I may ask? 23:04 Jordach Sony hifi equipment 23:05 Yst Hi-Fi is high-quality sound, right? 23:05 Jordach ye 23:06 Jordach ebay. their offical parts dealer doesn't even have it 23:06 Yst So how is the reverse engineering going so far? 23:07 Jordach http://freeservicemanuals.info/en/ <- 23:07 Jordach however, connectors aren't listed 23:07 Yst Hmm. 23:07 Jordach chips, part no. are useful 23:07 Jordach but the actual connectors (EBP-10) are 1.5v 23:12 Nosrick Anyone know what format the map generation heightmap comes in? 23:12 Nosrick Is it a 1D or 2D array? A table? 23:13 paramat flat array of x-rows joined end to end 23:13 Nosrick Aw, fuck 23:14 paramat so a table with a single index 23:14 Nosrick Is the index (x, z)? 23:15 paramat nope, (z - zmin) * chunksize + (x - xmin) + 1 23:15 paramat chunksize = 80 by default 23:17 Nosrick Ah, thank you. 23:17 paramat 'flat array' means a 2D space converted into a 1D table by joining the x rows end to end 23:18 paramat all 3D flat arrays (3D noise, voxelmanip) work the same way 23:26 Nosrick VoxelArea:new is returning nil. 23:26 Nosrick Why? 23:26 Nosrick local area = VoxelArea:new{ MinEdge = minp, MaxEdge = maxp } 23:26 Nosrick That's what I've got, it's nil. 23:31 paramat local area = VoxelArea:new{MinEdge=emin, MaxEdge=emax} 23:32 Nosrick My minp is emin 23:32 Nosrick And my maxp is emax 23:32 paramat are you using this inside an on-generated function? 23:32 paramat ah 23:32 Nosrick Yeah, I am. 23:33 paramat emin != chunk minp 23:33 paramat emin emax are the corners of the full voxelmanip volume which extends 16 nodes beyond mapchunk borders 23:34 paramat so vm volume is 112^3 23:34 paramat it's the mapchunk plus a mapblock-thick shell 23:34 Nosrick Right, okay. 23:34 Nosrick How do I get emin? 23:35 paramat essential because mapgen needs to generate stuff outside the mapchunk, and make stuff overlap 23:35 paramat local vm, emin, emax = minetest.get_mapgen_object("voxelmanip") 23:36 paramat do you need a simple example of lua mapgen? 23:36 Nosrick Maybe. Gimme a moment. 23:45 paramat hm actually i need to write one, but my mods are good mapgen examples https://github.com/paramat?tab=repositories