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IRC log for #minetest, 2016-08-28

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Time Nick Message
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01:07 rubenwardy !title https://github.com/rubenwardy/editor
01:07 MinetestBot rubenwardy: GitHub - rubenwardy/editor: Minetest Mod: Flexible formspec based text editor
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03:50 agrecascino anyone understand the minetest networking ocde
03:50 agrecascino code*
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09:07 Nosrick Morning, folks
09:21 shamoanjac ayo Nosrick
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10:12 segfault22 So its the SHRT (short) type used to store node coordinate number in minetest
10:13 segfault22 it is limited to minimum of -32767 and maximum of +32767
10:14 segfault22 is it possible to make it a LONG (long int) or a LLONG (long long int)
10:16 segfault22 the minimum for type LONG is -2147483647, the maximum is +2147483647... the minimum for type LLONG is -9223372036854775807 while minimum is +9223372036854775807
10:17 segfault22 that would be a possible way to get rid of the ~31000 nodes from 0 limit problem
10:17 segfault22 or am I wrong?
10:17 nore segfault22: I tried to do that once
10:17 segfault22 did it work?
10:17 sfan5 you can do that but it's a lot of work
10:17 sfan5 tl;dr don't do it
10:17 nore there are a lot of problems with it
10:17 segfault22 like what
10:17 nore I got segfaults, and others
10:18 segfault22 oh
10:18 segfault22 thats no good
10:18 nore it would not be backwards-compatible with maps either
10:18 nore (or that would need an ugly hack)
10:18 nore there also are problems with map generation, I think (although I'm not sure)
10:19 nore floats are sent as a long / 1000.
10:19 nore so that limits coordinates to 2^31/1000
10:19 nore and this would have to be changed as well
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10:19 nore I don't remember what other problems there were
10:20 nore also, it changed several thousands lines of code
10:20 nore reviewing such changes is just impossible
10:20 Krock huh? larger maps wouldn't fit into the current sqlite system anymore
10:21 segfault22 so are we stuck with the limit as it is now, forever
10:21 Krock omg how horrible
10:21 Krock you couldn't even save the database that holds 31000^3 air nodes
10:22 T4im ^^
10:22 Krock oh I'm sorry. 64000^3
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10:23 Krock !c (64000^3) / (1024^3) + ' GiB'
10:23 MinetestBot TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'float' and 'str'
10:23 Krock !c ((64000^3) / (1024^3)) + ' GiB'
10:23 MinetestBot TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'float' and 'str'
10:23 Krock !c ((64000^3) / (1024^3))
10:23 MinetestBot 62.320350535540406
10:23 Krock if each node was 1 byte - but that's not possible
10:24 segfault22 maybe 64k^3 nodes is enough for now
10:25 segfault22 it would probably take a really long time to devoid a 64k^3 world of all its non-renewable resources
10:27 segfault22 I won't ask again about changing the node limit until someone actually has a valid problem associated with the existing limit, which will only happen when superconducting processors and hard drives are measured in petabytes
10:27 segfault22 er, only be possible, because you can't store 64k^3 nodes without running out of space
10:28 T4im human limits won't change that much so
10:30 segfault22 human limits like what?
10:30 Krock you couldn't use up all space for buildings
10:30 T4im assuming a fifth of the ground is usable ore and a person would mine 8 hours a day each day of the year, they'd had to get 2556804 years of age before depleting it
10:30 Krock ^
10:30 T4im oh and that assumes they start really young :D
10:31 T4im have 1000 people do it, and it's still not possible :P
10:31 segfault22 if some revolutionary comes along and decides to change the way players play the game, say turn it into a mass strategy game with NPCs that build structures for your empire and weapons that readily destroy 1k^ nodes at a time, those limits will be realized to never have existed in the first place
10:32 T4im (i also assumed one dig per second)
10:33 segfault22 the only limits to how much ore you can get are the time taken to collect a resource and the return If the method of collection is changed to involve automated mining machines (chunkloaders would be needed first) one could easily acquire more resources in an hour than they ever collected manually
10:34 segfault22 only then would we start approaching the limit with any reasonable problem beyond "I can't run past ~31k nodes from 0? oh well..."
10:34 T4im technic already has a quarry, that digs 28900 nodes right now, but also just about one per second
10:35 segfault22 I wasn't talking about any one implementation; have you seen frame quarries that mine entire square sections out of the world in a second?
10:35 T4im you hardly ever find other peoples quarries unless they invite you over or are very publicly placed
10:35 T4im frame quarries? i saw attempts of them crashing servers :)
10:37 segfault22 the attempt was not implemented properly if it crashes the server, or the system can not handle the load. either way, it is still possible
10:38 T4im alright, lets go with the theory for now, how many nodes at once you say? 1k? so 10^3 nodes, that's about twice the size of a tnt blast
10:38 T4im tnt currently blasts at 5^3
10:38 T4im i think
10:38 T4im you'd still not alive to see it all mined
10:39 T4im huge numbers are funny that way :)
10:39 T4im twice the diameter*
10:39 segfault22 It's a waste of time to set up the tele-power/tele-item infrastructure if the frame bore is a measly 10^3 nodes large. Say, 64^3, is more reasonable, and consider the fact that there are more than one because players are competing
10:41 segfault22 also you can expand it to the side by another 64^3 once you have collected enough resources to do this. Combined with some device to auto-build the new sections, that reduces the downtime for expansion to a few seconds, a minute at most.
10:41 sfan5 Krock: if you want to add a string to a number you'll first have to convert the number to a string using str()
10:41 Krock !c str(3) + "blah"
10:41 MinetestBot '3blah'
10:41 Krock ooh
10:42 Krock I can't python
10:42 T4im what height has that 64^2 setup? 5 or so?
10:43 segfault22 yeah ^2 I was stuck in ^3 sorry
10:43 T4im i figured, but it still is higher than 1
10:43 T4im 64^2 * n
10:43 segfault22 the height is 64
10:44 T4im 3 at minimum
10:44 segfault22 64 high 64 long and it cuts a section only 1 block wide each step (could also be expanded, so dont count on it to stay at 1)
10:44 T4im but the frame machien itself has a y > 1
10:45 T4im or wait, you are mining horizontally now
10:45 T4im and i am vertically in my mind :D
10:45 segfault22 "now"?
10:45 segfault22 have you ever seen a frame bore?
10:45 T4im I've seen a frame based nodebreaker array in minetest
10:46 T4im digging down though
10:46 T4im anyway
10:47 segfault22 its basically a giant glorified tunnel bore, ok? maybe thats easier to turn around than digging straight down, and it can collect twice as much ore before having to be turned around (height to sea level is ~31k, length between ends of the world is ~62k
10:52 segfault22 don't bother trying to run calculations for this, the point is to illustrate that there will always be faster ways to mine, especially using methods which are currently unfathomable (tele-mining, instant and you don't even have to touch the node, just near enough), thus it is inevitable that the limit will be reached someday. whether most of us will live to see that is incalculable.
10:53 T4im if a 1000 players dug all at once 8 hours a day they'd still had to work 1111years
10:54 segfault22 now we're back to digging manually?
10:54 T4im thing is, if you increase it even further now, you start to get other limits, like building those arrays, which already take hours if not days to set up
10:54 T4im no your machine
10:54 T4im it only diggs 4096 nodes per second
10:55 T4im 64000^3  / 2 is still a huge number
10:55 segfault22 I thought I mentioned automatic construction, the fact that there is no limit to the size of "my machine", and there are other methods like tele-mining
10:55 T4im that is getting silly though, why still play then?
10:56 T4im autoconstructing and automining together doesn't make much sense gameplay wise
10:56 segfault22 I only meant to illustrate the fact that there will always be new methods to collect ore faster, even ones we can't fathom yet, therefore it is inevitable we will reach the limit
10:56 IhrFussel Question: Could this setting cause server lag? Default is 600 AFAIK and I thought setting it way lower would actually help with performance "server_unload_unused_data_timeout = 120"
10:56 T4im but those methods won't reach the limits before they reach others :D
10:56 segfault22 Why? Why?...
10:56 T4im because then it would make more sense to create an ore generator machine if you just want the resource investment
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10:57 segfault22 Because by the time we do get the ability to autobuild/automine, there will be a reason to need all of those resources
10:58 segfault22 aggression between players, especially using nukes on each-others constructions, always calls for more resources/power/everything, because you have to replace what is being destroyed
10:58 T4im yea so what?
10:59 segfault22 So there are unfathomable reasons which will incur a demand for auto-building auto-mining machines, and other unfathomable devices that reach the node limit
10:59 aix could someone help me with rnd's basic_machines?
10:59 T4im as said, if you have autobuilding automining machines, then why not just create a resource generator?
11:00 segfault22 it will be a very long time until we get there, but it is foolish to say we won't ever. About as foolish as the programmers who assumed their code would never be used past year 2000
11:00 segfault22 resource duplication breaks the game, unless you just want to play creative mode
11:00 T4im i don't say things aren't scaling up, I'm saying you are having a false intuition about those large numbers and the first limits being reached
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11:01 segfault22 Just like the false intuition of all the people who had to fix their broken machines when they woke up from their hangover January first 2000
11:03 T4im yes, exactly
11:03 T4im they just went the other direction :P
11:03 segfault22 you assume the current state of things is static and unchanging, that there will never be ways to reach the limits within reason. Computer scientists a few decades ago thought that a hard-drive storing a few gigabytes would be nearly impossible to fill
11:03 T4im no i don't assume that
11:04 T4im i already assumed endless capacities for this conversation
11:04 T4im if you didn't notice
11:04 segfault22 Then you are contradicting yourself because changing conditions will eventually result in the limits being reached
11:05 segfault22 pick one
11:05 T4im the premise is, there are still limited human capacities, and those are actually not so quickly changing (sure, maybe we'll live forever one day, but then we'd have enough time to rewrite minetest, don't you think?=
11:05 T4im you didn't read me up there
11:05 T4im even if you scale up you might hit **other** limits first, because you scale for them at a different rate
11:06 segfault22 constructs don't have human limits, refer to tunnel bore in real world vs. picking all that stone by hand
11:06 T4im some limits i assume fixed here, indeed, your life span for one
11:07 T4im of course there are limits, you can't build a huge machine because it doesn't make sense to autoconstruct it, or to make it free all at the same time, that would be a boring game indeed
11:07 segfault22 today, when people build a new computer for whatever use, they almost always get a hard-drive that can store at least one terabyte, because their old computer with a gigabyte-harddrive is full of all their files and they need more space. The same thing happened when peoples' megabyte hard-drves started to get filled up
11:08 T4im it's absurd, just invent a 64k^3 per second digging machine and you are done with the game in one second, that was fun!
11:08 T4im dude, you don't need to convince me that limits are pushed, don't you get that? :D
11:08 segfault22 you're not done with the game, remember you have to use those resources for something, and manage all the systems
11:09 segfault22 you would not build such a machine without the need; someday a mod will come along providing the need, whether or not you can wrap your head around it today doesn't matter.
11:09 * T4im sighs
11:10 segfault22 a few decades ago, gigabyte hard drives provided an unreachable limit, until the uses/needs filled the space eventually reaching the limit. It would have been unfathomable to need a hard drive storing 1k gigabytes, when you can barely fill 4 gigabytes with your emails. but then everything else that's resource-hogging came along, and pushed the usage to the limit
11:11 T4im you don't need to tell me that, i actually used a 20MB hdd
11:11 T4im i am im perpetual state of wonder of how disk space is growing
11:11 segfault22 this is not speculative, it is a fact of how we develop our technology and learn to use it more when the limits are pushed higher, until we run out of space and need higher limits
11:11 T4im i still tell you there are factual limits, as unimaginable as they are
11:12 segfault22 the only limit is the state of mind that there is a limit
11:13 T4im like, even the nsa can't break AES256 by sheer bruteforce, you know why that is a fact? because they'd don't have the energy for it, evne if you assume all the money and all the computers in the universe, they'd had to use more energy than the solar system provides if you turned all matter into energy, so as much as there are pushed limits in imagined scenarios, there are limits by nature that still are hit at some point
11:13 T4im of course they will still break it by math and stealing keys and stuff like that :P
11:13 T4im but that's another topic
11:13 segfault22 They don't brute force AES encryption, remember they paid the developers to leave vulnerabilities in it that allow cryptanalysis to break it in a few hours on a regular laptop
11:14 * T4im isghs
11:14 * T4im sighs*
11:14 T4im yes
11:14 T4im that's why i added "sheer bruteforce"
11:14 T4im it was an example about how even imagined limitless resources still hit physical limits
11:15 segfault22 if the limit is the point at which AES is broken, they have already reached it without using bruteforce...
11:15 segfault22 and they don't even need limitless resources to do it
11:15 T4im now you are just trolling me, I'm done
11:15 segfault22 you are starting to confuse your limits, maybe its time to lay off for a while
11:17 segfault22 You know how hard drive storage space is expanded? they create finer read/write heads with finer photolithography processes as they become available, and make the particle size on the platters more fine as well
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11:20 segfault22 we are starting to reach a physical limit to how small these components can be created, but that doesn't mean we can't fill those hard drives that have reached the physical limits. And when people complain enough about their hard drives not being able to store enough information for their 16k movies and game-world data, the industry will find some other revolutionary new way to store data that has even higher physical limits, most possibly by stori
11:20 segfault22 ng more information in the space that a single bit occupies on a terabyte hard-drive
11:21 segfault22 when the storage media has reached the physical limit for "grain-size", the new direction of development will be into data density "per grain", like how each flash storage cell can store 4 bits of information
11:23 IhrFussel Is there somewhere documented what tasks the "Server" thread has? Cause htop constantly shows that only the Server thread spikes when lags happen
11:24 sfan5 no thats not documented, just look in the code
11:24 APNG hi
11:24 APNG can anyone help me work on NOVA? http://novaapi.net/
11:24 APNG I'm currently trying to make it work at all
11:25 APNG then I'll try to implement minetest on it, so you can load minetest mods in minecraft
11:27 segfault22 It looks like for NOVA to work, all the methods from one game have to translate into another some way, there has to be a counterpart or some implementation of the methods to exist in both
11:27 APNG segfault22, yeah I'm working towards that
11:28 segfault22 Cool, it looks like a really viable endeavor
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11:30 Megaf !g nova api
11:30 MinetestBot Megaf: Problem getting data from Google.
11:30 Megaf !g novaapi
11:30 MinetestBot Megaf: Problem getting data from Google.
11:30 Megaf sfan5: ^
11:31 Megaf !w nova api
11:31 sfan5 i'm aware
11:31 Megaf I had a cool IRC bot once, it could do everything. Even talk
11:31 Megaf and it ran on Windows
11:31 APNG Megaf, you consider that a feature?!
11:32 Megaf the bot actually worked very well
11:32 Megaf very well built software, stable and fast
11:32 APNG Megaf, you consider windows support a feature?!
11:32 Megaf well, I was using Windows 2003 Server Enterprise Edition at that time.
11:32 Megaf that was late 2002 or early 2003
11:32 Megaf before I migrated to Linux as main kernel
11:33 APNG oh, back when windows was acceptable
11:33 segfault22 A lot of the method implementation still has to be done in minetest core/engine code, like weather, explosions, food (consume food to regenerate hp over time, not just punch to heal and delete one item from stack), armor, projectiles, mobs, and other stuff that is currently only implemented by... another mod.
11:33 Megaf APNG: and that windows was a pretty good one
11:34 Megaf basically it was windows with all bad windows stuff removed
11:34 segfault22 We could make a "nova" mod which proviides an interface to existing features of the engine, while also implementing features that aren't implemented in the engine and providing interface for those
11:34 Megaf and it asked me for admin password and confirmation to do everything
11:34 Megaf just like Linux!
11:34 segfault22 you modded windows? 1337 h4xx0r
11:35 Megaf lol
11:35 APNG segfault22, just implement a nova mod and put dependencies on the weather/explode/food/etc plugins
11:35 Megaf I acutally had a livecd of windows...
11:36 Megaf actually*
11:36 segfault22 I would rather not have it depend on anything except minetest itself, ie, all that stuff implemented in a universally-usable fashion that other mods will have to use or fall behind into the "old mods" subforum forever
11:37 APNG segfault22, you do realize we're talking about making a nova mod, not a minetest mod, right?
11:37 Megaf if you want to make a nice, clean, light and compatible mod, it has to run on minetest_minimal
11:37 APNG e.g. run minetest mods on NOVA, not NOVA mods on minetest
11:38 * Megaf have no idea what this nova api thing is for
11:38 Megaf and if it is not related to minetest I'm even more lost
11:38 segfault22 A mod for the nova API has to be created in order for nova mods to work in minetest,...
11:38 segfault22 I thought that was at least obvious so I only bothered to say it once a few minutes ago...
11:38 APNG segfault22, a mod for the nova API has to be created for minetest mods to work in nova
11:39 APNG it's minetest_mod <-> nova <-> minecraft, not minetest <-> nova <-> nova_mod
11:39 segfault22 nova mods working in any game and mods in any game working in nova are interchangeable because nova mods are interpreted by nova
11:39 APNG no, minecraftforge mods don't work in nova
11:39 segfault22 I didn't say they did
11:39 APNG it's not reimplementing minecraft, it's only wrapping minecraft
11:40 segfault22 I know
11:40 APNG so you won't be able to load nova mods into minetest
11:40 segfault22 then why bother?
11:40 APNG (meh who had the bright idea to name the API, the game and the engine the same thing >.>)
11:41 APNG segfault22, minetest mods are a thing
11:41 APNG so let's make them work everywhere
11:41 segfault22 That's the idea
11:41 APNG I'm not talking about making non-minetest mods work everywhere tho
11:42 segfault22 in order for mods implemented in nova to work in any game, it must have a nova interpreter, call it a mod or an engine code change or whatever you want to, its the same thing
11:42 APNG no
11:42 APNG I don't wanna change minetest
11:42 segfault22 call it or implement it whatever way you want to (sigh)
11:42 APNG >.>
11:43 segfault22 you don't have to change the engine to implement a nova interpreter, a mod can do that
11:43 segfault22 this nova interpeter mod should only depend on minetest, and it allows mods written in the nova api to work in minetest
11:43 APNG I don't wanna be able to run minetest mods on top of nova on top of minetest on top of nova on top of minetest
11:44 segfault22 you aren't understanding what I am saying
11:44 APNG you're the one who's not understanding me
11:44 APNG you're the one who wants to make NOVA talk to minetest
11:45 APNG I only want minetest *mods* to talk to NOVA
11:45 segfault22 what good does that do?
11:45 APNG it lets you use minetest mods in minecraft
11:45 segfault22 You don't understand how they say nova works
11:46 APNG I'm talking to the nova devs right now >.>
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11:46 segfault22 nova implements its own api system that is universal across all games. the game must have some kind of interpreter, whether it be a mod or engine change, to allow mods written in the nova API to translate to the minetest API
11:47 APNG yes
11:47 APNG you can do that with NOVA
11:47 APNG doesn't mean you have to
11:47 segfault22 if the "devs" say otherwise, they contradict the site and it needs to be updated to reflect their changes
11:47 aix the minimesecons ghoststone just disappears on place...
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11:47 segfault22 "NOVA provides modders with the ability to write mods for any game or mod loader that has a NOVA-compatible wrapper for it"
11:47 APNG yes
11:48 APNG doesn't mean there has to be a wrapper for minetest
11:48 APNG the minetest engine is complete garbage
11:48 APNG the API is nice tho
11:48 APNG so if you swap out the engine you should get a nice game
11:48 APNG (say, replace it with minecraft)
11:49 segfault22 Then why bother making minetest able to run nova mods in the first place, since you have a better idea than using minetest?
11:49 APNG I'm not trying to make minetest run NOVA mods >.>
11:49 APNG I'm trying to make NOVA run minetest mods >.>
11:49 APNG are you even listening >.>
11:50 segfault22 there isn't a difference, when you implement the "interpreter" or "wrapper" or "game-specific API converter" or whatever you call it, then NOVA mods <> Minetest mods
11:50 segfault22 that is how its claimed to work, in the documentation
11:50 APNG there is a difference
11:50 APNG a wrapper is not a mod
11:51 segfault22 I didn't originally say there has to be a wrapper, that was your idea
11:51 APNG a wrapper depends on a specific engine, a mod depends on NOVA
11:51 APNG I never said there has to be a wrapper >.>
11:51 APNG I actually said there DOESN'T HAVE to be a wrapper >.>
11:52 APNG is my brain damage that bad that ppl can't understand what I'm saying? ;_;
11:52 segfault22 the basic fact is that the NOVA whatever you want to call it is a system which allows you to code mods to work on any game which implements a conversion from said code to the game's native code
11:52 APNG yes, that's the basic fact
11:52 segfault22 the conversion doesn't have to be called anything, you can call it a "foo" for all I care, it does the same thing
11:52 APNG another fact is that the minetest API is just a set of Lua functions
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11:53 APNG and you can call NOVA from Lua
11:53 Megaf_ Finally back using Quasse Core and Quassel Client.
11:53 APNG so you can create Lua functions that emulate the minetest API, and make those call the NOVA functions
11:53 Megaf_ Quassel*
11:53 APNG and that'll make minetest mods run on top of NOVA
11:53 APNG but it won't let NOVA mods run on top of minetest
11:53 APNG but you're too much of a dumbfuck to understand that
11:54 APNG so I have repeated myself like 10 times already >.>
11:54 segfault22 If you fall to the level of insulting others, it proves you don't know what you are talking about because it is only a last resort, "dumbfuck"
11:54 APNG segfault22, insults are used when you're angry
11:54 aix could someone give me a hand with a little mod?
11:54 APNG any good codebase has at least one insult hidden in a comment deep somewhere
11:55 APNG if your codebase has no insults, you're doing something very wrong
11:55 APNG insults make the world actually work
11:55 segfault22 You know what? I don't care if you can't comprehend what I am talking about, that is your own shortcoming of the mind.
11:55 APNG segfault22, no, I can fully understand what you're talking about
11:55 APNG you might want to draw it out for YOU to understand it
11:56 APNG because you're the one who doesn't seem to get it
11:56 segfault22 You're a difficult one to do anything with, I am convinced you're just trying to troll me, so it's time to get rid of you, /ignore style
11:57 APNG segfault22, took you way too long, I wish you had put me on ignore earlier, at least I wouldn't have had to deal with your lack of a brain
11:57 APNG insults make life easier :>
11:57 segfault22 I don't lack a brain, if that were true I could not use this interface; that proves you are incompetent
11:58 APNG segfault22, you'd be surprised by what ppl can do without a brain...
11:59 segfault22 Okay, there are some insects that don't have brains, but humans can't even implement heartbeat pulses without a certain part of the brain
12:00 segfault22 not having a brain and not using certain parts of it are different, you are confusing both and implementing quite extensively the latter in your own state
12:01 segfault22 now, the fact that you can write mods in NOVA "code" is enough for anyone to know that said mods can be made to run on any game, because that's how they say it works. You don't have to implement a system to let the mods work on the game, but then again you don't need a computer to live
12:02 segfault22 the game has to implement a system to work with NOVA, that is obvious.
12:02 segfault22 mods are part of the game, don't try that one because it won't work.
12:03 segfault22 the only way to add content to minetest is through mods, or coding the content directly into the engine as before 0.4
12:05 APNG segfault22, so ever heard of wine?
12:05 segfault22 wine's not an emulator?
12:05 APNG segfault22, do you call wine a "windows mod"?
12:06 segfault22 No, because in translation to these minetest concepts the programs are mods.
12:06 APNG or do you call it "winapi translating to linux"?
12:07 segfault22 wine is like NOVA and the OS is like Minetest, Minecraft, or whatever other voxel game
12:07 APNG segfault22, so why would you call "minetest api translating to nova" a "minetest mod"?
12:07 APNG segfault22, so think about this, linux wine on freebsd
12:08 APNG freebsd has a wine-like thing that lets you run linux binaries directly
12:08 APNG so by putting linux wine on freebsd, you have windows programs <-> wine <-> linux subsystem <-> freebsd
12:08 APNG segfault22, can you understand that?
12:08 segfault22 Why would I be here if I haven't gotten that covered already?
12:09 APNG basically, I wanna put wine on wine
12:09 APNG minetest mod <-> my junk minetest API to NOVA translation <-> NOVA <-> minecraft
12:09 Krock so 4 times more speed loss
12:09 Krock profit!
12:09 APNG do you get it now, or are you, as I said before, too much of a dumbfuck?
12:10 APNG Krock, eh just add some JITs in-between
12:10 segfault22 So you want to make a system that takes regular minetest mods, converts them to the NOVA implementation so they can run on minecraft?
12:10 APNG segfault22, yes
12:10 segfault22 Why not just rewrite the mods to be implemented through nova? that would be so much easier
12:10 APNG segfault22, that has to be done once for each mod, not once for all the mods
12:11 agaran Hello
12:11 segfault22 welcome agaran
12:11 APNG also, the minetest devs don't like java much
12:14 segfault22 If we implemented a NOVA interpreter for minetest, your other system would be useful for translating mods to the NOVA implementation, where it doesn't screw up and omit something or break something (inevitable this way), but once each mod has been converted at least once, they would be able to run on any voxel game implementing NOVA, and with such an interpreter we would also be able to run other mods in minetest, which is the only thing that will
12:14 segfault22 benefit Minetest in terms of players playing the game - porting minetest mods to other games helps us some for publicity, but what game does the ported mod get played in? not minetest
12:15 APNG meh w/e
12:15 Hirato speaking of dumbfucks, you guys have to see this kickstarter - especially since it uses some minetest footage recorded at 2 FPS https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/qquip/oton​-x-the-first-artificial-intelligent-game-conso
12:15 segfault22 if you want to make minetest mods run in other games, go ahead, but know that it won't cause more players to play minetest for any reason other than learning it exists
12:15 APNG I just wanna do the easy part
12:15 APNG it's easier to make minetest mods talk to NOVA than to make NOVA mods talk to minetest
12:15 APNG mostly because minetest is C++ and Lua, while NOVA is Java
12:15 segfault22 What's easy for you isn't best for the game
12:16 APNG I can just use a JVM-based Lua interpreter to put Lua in Java
12:16 APNG there are no Lua-based JVMs
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12:16 Hirato go hardcore buddy boy, use the JNI
12:16 APNG Hirato, never
12:16 APNG FFI sure, JNI never
12:17 APNG I much prefer sun.misc.Unsafe over that JNI mess
12:20 segfault22 We don't need NOVA to interpret Lua, just implement a system in Java which converts stuff implemented in NOVA to relevant Minetest-compatible Lua code, write it to a file, and bam you have just used NOVA to convert a mod from its system to something Minetest can interpret, without having to make Java interpret Lua "directly"
12:21 APNG in other words, make a JVM
12:22 APNG segfault22, you're still confusing the concept of minetest mods in NOVA with the concept of NOVA mods in minetest
12:22 APNG you want me not to call you a dumbfuck? how can I not call you a dumbfuck? you KNOW the concept, you know the difference, yet you're still mixing them up
12:23 segfault22 no. The Java implementation can use strings to hold the revelant bits of Lua code, convert NOVA-implemented object names/IDs/properties to strings and finally stitch the object data with the Lua code-bits, making one big string with a mod-file that has all the Lua code to run in minetest and basically implement the mod fro mNOVA. I know this isn't what you are trying to do, but this is what I believe should be done, because it would be best for eve
12:23 segfault22 ryone - so no, I am not mixing it up, you just failed to catch that I am not talking about what you are trying to do.
12:24 APNG segfault22, it wouldn't run because java is bytecode
12:24 APNG and then there's that whole reflection thing
12:24 APNG in other words you'd need a JVM for that
12:24 APNG a pure-Lua JVM
12:24 APNG good luck
12:28 segfault22 I didn't say Lua would have to run Java, Java can run on the system like any other Java code, and the objects NOVA loads can then be converted, with skillful use of strings, to Lua code which is written to a file, which becomes the mod that you run in Minetest to "run NOVA mods in minetest". If you think this is stupid, I don't care, because it would be viable, and it would help more than just to let Minecrafters play mods that we have written for
12:28 segfault22 Minetest.
12:29 APNG segfault22, I don't care about minecraft tho, and minetest's engine is shit
12:30 APNG just because NOVA runs on minecraft doesn't mean I wanna run things on minecraft
12:30 Calinou oh, go and make your own awesome voxel game
12:31 Calinou I suggest you make it as a bunch of microservices written in Go
12:31 Calinou connected to Node.js APIs
12:31 Calinou and Java wrappers
12:31 Hirato Calinou: that then interacts with minetest using JNI? :3
12:32 segfault22 I don't care what you think about minetest's engine, it will be a great advantage to be able to play NOVA mods in minetest, and that would be good for our community. Since you obviously don't care about Minetest, regardless of if you want our mods to run on whatever other game you have in mind, you have no place here.
12:33 APNG Hirato, FUCK JNI
12:33 segfault22 I don't care if you go write a system to run our mods on whatever other game, it is inevitable that they will be run on Minecraft as well as other games, which does not help us much or any except the rare case the player reads "this mod was originally written for minetest" or similar, goes and looks it up, actually doenloads the game and does all the rest
12:33 APNG segfault22, good, so be an uncooperative bastard >.>
12:34 APNG the idea is that you'd get minetest mods from the minetest website and stuff, then shove them in NOVA through a NOVA mod
12:34 segfault22 You are the one being a detriment to this community; you want our work to be used outside of Minetest so that people can enjoy our content without having to play Minetest.
12:34 APNG so you'd have to use all the minetest channels to be able to use minetest mods
12:34 APNG segfault22, I sell mods
12:34 APNG not others mods, but my own
12:36 APNG segfault22, in a perfect world minetest, minecraft and whatever else would be able to talk to eachother and play together and stuff
12:36 APNG you only care about minetest being better than everything else
12:36 segfault22 People would still end up running the mods on some other game, having downloaded it for the purpose of running the mods on some other game; and, once the mod has been converted once, the implementation in NOVA can be imaged or "whatever" you call it, then the code for the NOVA implementation of the mod can be distributed wherever and allow people to use the mod without ever having to know about Minetest, if that is the intention of the one who uses
12:36 segfault22 your system to convert our mods.
12:37 segfault22 I don't only care about Minetest being better, but it helps that it is inevitable that it will be...
12:37 APNG segfault22, the system doesn't convert mods
12:37 APNG I can't convert JVM mods to Lua, and I can't convert Lua mods to JVM
12:38 APNG I can only implement a wine-like layer
12:38 APNG I decided to implement that wine-like layer for Lua to JVM
12:38 segfault22 then you really are lazy
12:38 APNG Microsoft only recently decided to add a Linux layer to Windows
12:39 APNG nobody ever bothered to make a Linux layer for Windows before
12:39 APNG (also MS's implementation is still really shit, but better than when it was first announced)
12:39 segfault22 That's retarded, now people will learn more about free software alternatives to that insecure Windows NSA-Backdoor payware hackjob
12:39 APNG segfault22, there's nothing wrong with implementing wine without implementing microsoft's linux subsystem
12:40 segfault22 M$ has stabbed themselves in the face
12:40 APNG segfault22, and you're so much of a dumbfuck that you actually care about security
12:40 APNG while you're probably using a single password through a password manager to unlock all your accounts
12:40 segfault22 It's not dumb to care about security
12:40 APNG instead of different passwords for each service
12:40 segfault22 No, I don't use a password manager, I do use several passwords
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12:41 segfault22 I always knew password managers were retarded compared to the most effective - my brain
12:41 AnotherBrick joined #minetest
12:41 segfault22 I have discovered an easy way to make passwords that are both memorable and high-entropy
12:42 APNG segfault22, while you're at it, find a way to protect yourself from particle state retrieval and exacerbation mechanism / PSREM (a thing I'm working on that lets you retrieve the state of adjacent particles through the state of particles)
12:43 segfault22 I use a piece of paper at first to keep track of them because they are kinda long, but once I have associated the words I can burn the piece of paper because it's memorized already. I have never lost a password I have memorized, though it has sometimes taken me a few minutes to remember some of the old ones
12:43 APNG (you know, the thing that breaks literally all crypto)
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12:44 segfault22 cool story bro, but I doubt you actually have the equipment to build a working implementation; the technology for that is so far away, your children (if you ever have any) may not see it developed in their lifetime
12:44 APNG true
12:44 APNG but at least I'm working on it
12:44 segfault22 Good luck
12:45 APNG (it'd be so nice to be able to actually watch history)
12:45 segfault22 It would actually be something beneficial, because it can be used for one of those precognition things where the government can detect if someone is building a doomsday superweapon, wait until they are almost finished, and make dust out of them
12:46 segfault22 but like all technology, it can be used for bad
12:47 Hirato precrime
12:47 segfault22 Most of our modern technology is based on the work done by scientists who dies before they ever got to see a working implementation
12:47 segfault22 yes, precrime
12:47 Hirato lots of crimethink going on here
12:47 segfault22 well, kinda, because building a doomsday superweapon is kinda already a crime before it's finished
12:49 segfault22 not that I would actually go try to build a doomsday superweapon, right? The fact that nobody has done it yet even though there are several viable methods known in some far-out fringes of the internet and old libraries, makes me wonder if the government or some other force hasn't already found a way to monitor and detect if someone is trying to make a doomsday superweapon
12:49 rubenwardy my opinion on map size: overworld space is way more valuable than underworld or sky lands. You couldn't build a city to scale in Minetest (say, autogenerated from maps etc)
12:50 rubenwardy So the 64000^3 build space argument isn't particularly valid IMO, in practice the build space is more like 64000^2*10
12:50 segfault22 you're right, so its not just about how much ore you can rape from the ground before it becomes a chunk full of emptiness
12:51 segfault22 there's much more 3d-space in the underground areas then the single layer of the surface which is approximately 2d
12:51 Fixer rubenwardy: i've added few suggestions to your chatplus platform on forum
12:52 segfault22 most people like to build at the surface because it looks better and its easily accessible - humans live at the boundary between the sky and the ground, so building underground or in the sky kinda makes it hard to get around as well as you could at the ground
12:52 segfault22 you can't walk in the air, or through stone, without a ground to stand on and air to support your life
12:53 segfault22 who still thinks we would need to make a "Lua JVM" to convert NOVA mods to something the Minetest API can use?
12:53 Fixer rubenwardy: 64000 of height is good for multiple realms
12:54 rubenwardy which we don't yet have
12:54 Fixer possible with lua I guess
12:54 Fixer but it is slow
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12:55 segfault22 I don't like the idea of fitting multiple worlds in the same one stacked on each-other,. even though its kinda viable since nobody is gonna use that much sky space, it would be much better to move separate realms to separate map-databases in the same world folder, so that sea level can be Y=0 in all realms, instead of some confusing number
12:56 Fixer could be
12:56 segfault22 we don't have to generate all of that sky space, but if we want to make a super-tall structure for whatever reason, the room is there
12:56 segfault22 all 31km of it
12:57 agaran segfault22: you know once i had fun with tall stuff.. even if I felt there was enough time to do /home before reaching ground..
12:57 Fixer or 64 km
12:57 red-001 It would be best if separate worlds ran in separate threads
12:57 Fixer if you place ocean somewhere at -32000
12:57 red-001 that way mods wouldn't conflict
12:59 red-001 although that would make supporting legacy clients hard
12:59 red-001 harder*
13:00 segfault22 I'm not sure if you're thinking about separate worlds with different mod sets, or different map-databases within the same world...
13:01 red-001 what would be the point of different map-databases?
13:01 red-001 make calculating light easier?
13:01 segfault22 So you can have separate realms in the same world folder but occupying different maps
13:02 red-001 can't you already do that using one map database?
13:02 segfault22 like how minecraft does dimensions, except we would do it much better of course, we're already better than minecraft was when it was as far as minetest is in development
13:03 segfault22 sure, we can make stacked realms, but what if you want to build a super-tall structure? eventually, you will either see the bottom of another realm possibly causing lighting issues if that isn't fixed, or run into some kind of barrier to prevent you from getting close enough to the next layer to be able to see it
13:04 red-001 fair enough point
13:04 segfault22 of course most players would be limited to just making huge 1x1 towers before they get banned, but determined ones would make more intricate structures that can actually serve a purpose other than getting up really far one time
13:04 red-001 still it would take a long time to build a structure that large
13:04 segfault22 yes
13:05 red-001 wouldn't this break all old mods?
13:05 segfault22 Not necessarily
13:07 segfault22 it would not change the way stuff is registered and put into the world, there would just be more than one realm within the world where stuff from mods can exist. If the mod is a worldgen mod for just "the world", we can maybe alias its reference to just apply to the main realm, and newer versions could make it work in other realms if that is so desired.
13:08 segfault22 by default ores would be placed wherever default:stone is generated, so maybe we should standardize a system for different types of stone and corresponding ores before we try making multiple realms occupy different map-databases within the same world
13:09 red-001 still it sounds like this would make the api a lot more complicated
13:09 segfault22 or just generate a different block in place of default:stone in all other dimensions where the ores from the main world are not desired
13:09 shivajiva I'd love to see diff realms within a world, would make game hubs much easier to code if we had it :)
13:10 APNG red-001, this seems more like an implementation detail than an API thing
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13:12 segfault22 First you have to figure out how its going to work or how it should work, then change the code such that it works as is desired. Otherwise, you get lost and the result may only be slightly related to the whole reason you started.
13:12 Hirato I'd love to see some verticality in the biomes too, like how terraria has the caverns, deep caverns and then hell
13:14 segfault22 yes, that would be nice. It would be a great use of some of that world height to implement mountains and plateaus much higher than a few blocks from sea level, and more features deep underground possibly including exotic resources needed to make your power systems (hey, there's an unfilled niche)
13:14 APNG Hirato, 3D biomes are a pain, you'd have to store them compressed
13:14 APNG at least they're relatively read-only
13:14 APNG also good luck designing the whole game to work around compressed biomes
13:14 Hirato lol?
13:15 segfault22 I've seen this one mod which implements mountain ranges, using 3d noise. We could use something like that to implement "hell"
13:15 APNG at least as far as I'm aware minetest currently stores the world as an uncompressed node array
13:15 APNG (in RAM I mean)
13:15 APNG I don't wanna know what the code would look like for a compressed node array
13:16 Hirato would probably just be a deflate stream in the database
13:16 Hirato I'd actually be surprised if that wasn't done already
13:16 APNG yes, you can always just decompress when loading from the database
13:16 APNG and keep huge node arrays in RAM
13:16 APNG or you can compress it everywhere
13:16 segfault22 There's already several mods which add different types of stone, implemented with 3d noise, which can work a lot like that underground biomes mod from minecraft
13:17 segfault22 "for"
13:17 Hirato the lua api has a bunch of different noise generators too
13:18 rubenwardy or, you could make biomes deterministic and so recalculatable
13:18 Hirato is that not what the noise generators are for?
13:18 segfault22 there's no reason we can't use them to make mountains, caverns, stuff like the minecraft nether complete with biome-specific flora and resources
13:18 rubenwardy APNG, map blocks are compressed
13:18 rubenwardy using libz I believe
13:18 APNG rubenwardy, in RAM?
13:19 Hirato since it needs to reinstantiate the noise thing to generate the neighbouring 'blocks'
13:19 rubenwardy Oh, not sure about that, but they are in the DB
13:19 rubenwardy in anycase there won't be enough loaded in RAM to need compression
13:19 Hirato with block being one of those 16x16x16 things (or whatever their actual size is)
13:19 segfault22 a block is like 3^3 chunks, each chunk 16^16, if I remember correctly
13:19 APNG rubenwardy, biomes are currently 2D right?
13:19 rubenwardy no, you can get basic underground biomes
13:20 rubenwardy I think there's only one - "underground" - by default
13:20 APNG rubenwardy, are they proper biomes tho?
13:20 rubenwardy you get mountain biomes as well
13:20 APNG I mean are they calculated like any other biome or are they set based on height?
13:21 APNG (can each node have its own biome?)
13:21 Hirato I think it's more a case of the generator saying "oh, it's my turn *place things in a pattern based on noise*"
13:22 APNG imagine doubling the world size in RAM
13:22 segfault22 You can't see biomes in the ingame debug info, right?
13:22 Hirato you can base them purely on height if you wanted too
13:22 APNG that's what would happen by going from 2D biomes to 3D biomes
13:22 Hirato eg, the bedrock mod that makes everything at -250 and below bedrock
13:22 Hirato or whatever the actual number was
13:23 APNG hmm
13:23 APNG does minetest have biomes beyond worldgen?
13:23 segfault22 You can't see biomes in the ingame debug info, right?
13:23 Hirato beats me
13:23 rubenwardy you should talk to paramat or hmmmm
13:23 APNG like, are biomes only part of worldgen, or are they actually a thing and some places have snow and other places have no rain and stuff?
13:23 rubenwardy ~tell paramat http://irc.minetest.ru/min​etest/2016-08-28#i_4693238
13:23 ShadowBot rubenwardy: O.K.
13:24 behalebabo segfault22: right, you cannot
13:25 segfault22 as far as I know, biome definitions are only used to tell the map generator where to place stuff; in that case, they are not limited to two dimensions like minecraft; that would follow with the 3d-world concept that minetest is pretty much based on
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13:26 APNG ok
13:26 segfault22 aww man, I got up hours ago intending to work on my mods and all I did was hang out at chat
13:26 APNG so minetest doesn't have biomes
13:26 APNG problem solved
13:26 APNG adding biomes would double the world size in RAM
13:26 Robby joined #minetest
13:27 segfault22 Minecraft sure does hog some RAM
13:27 redblade joined #minetest
13:28 segfault22 its like minecraft is a big ol' sow and the RAM is a trough full of goodies
13:28 segfault22 thats kinda why I like minetest more
13:28 red-001 adding biomes would double the world size in RAM ?????
13:29 red-001 how does minetest not have biomes?
13:29 APNG <segfault22> as far as I know, biome definitions are only used to tell the map generator where to place stuff; in that case, they are not limited to two dimensions like minecraft; that would follow with the 3d-world concept that minetest is pretty much based on
13:29 APNG red-001, worldgen has pseudo-biomes
13:29 APNG to worldgen, biomes exist
13:29 rubenwardy No
13:30 red-001 pseudo-biomes?
13:30 APNG and worldgen uses that concept of biomes to populate the world
13:30 APNG but beyond worldgen, all areas of the world are the same biome
13:30 red-001 is that not the point of biomes?
13:30 rubenwardy biome finding is deterministic, you wouldn't need to store it in the RAM
13:30 red-001 or do you have some other use for them?
13:30 rubenwardy also, it wouldn't double the world size even if it was stored
13:30 APNG the point of biomes is that snow biomes have snow, deserts have no rain, etc
13:30 segfault22 as far as I know, it would only add a single field to each node, which can be compressed down to a single number that won't even need a whole byte to express 256 different biomes
13:31 APNG rubenwardy, say that to thaumcraft (the minecraft mod) and its dynamic biomes
13:31 rubenwardy it would be a 32 byte variable per block
13:31 APNG and each node is a 32 byte variable >.>
13:31 rubenwardy compared to 512 bytes currently
13:31 APNG uh
13:31 APNG oh right
13:32 APNG all the pointers and stuff for metadata and stuff
13:32 rubenwardy no, APNG, a block is 16x16x16 nodes
13:32 APNG oh
13:32 rubenwardy so 1 bit per node / minecraft block
13:32 segfault22 if you gave each biome a string text-name, without converting it to a number, then it would consume more space. we can be more efficient with numbers stored in, say, a single byte or just a few
13:32 APNG per-block biomes
13:32 APNG not per-node
13:32 Fixer minetest has no weather
13:32 segfault22 damn
13:32 Fixer i really dislike this part
13:32 segfault22 no weather? pfffft
13:32 Fixer ambience part
13:32 Fixer just clouds
13:32 Fixer there is weather mod though
13:33 red-001 does any weather mod change the sky colour?
13:33 rubenwardy oh wait, it wouldn't be bit per node it would be a byte
13:33 APNG rubenwardy, assuming 256 biome types
13:34 rubenwardy even so, currently I believe it is 2B for cid, 1B for param1, 1B for param2
13:34 red-001 do you really need more?
13:34 APNG you'd probably want at least 65536
13:34 APNG red-001, at least 1024, yes
13:34 red-001 what for?
13:34 APNG but if you're gonna go for 1024, might aswell go for 65536
13:34 segfault22 Yeah but its a hacknslash compared to features of the engine; imagine trying to make a mod that lets you register entities because the engine doesn't have a part for that in the Lua API, and having to make mobs as blocks... yuck!
13:34 rubenwardy 256 is enough for anybody!
13:34 segfault22 ]the weather mod
13:34 rubenwardy So it would be:
13:35 rubenwardy !g (4+1)/4
13:35 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Problem getting data from Google.
13:35 rubenwardy !c (4+1)/4
13:35 MinetestBot 1.25
13:35 APNG rubenwardy, I know a MC mod that fills up the 256 biome IDs MC supports
13:35 rubenwardy so 25% more
13:35 segfault22 256 is more than enough, and if we run out, we can make it configrable per-world
13:35 rubenwardy nah, 32bit would be better
13:35 rubenwardy but this is all mute anyway -
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13:35 APNG rubenwardy, 32bit is overkill
13:35 rubenwardy I meant 16
13:36 segfault22 1024bit for teh win
13:36 red-001 1 gib
13:36 Fixer red-001: yes
13:36 rubenwardy RAM is cheap though
13:37 APNG give me 3TB RAM sticks and I'll be happy with that
13:37 segfault22 just kidding lol
13:37 rubenwardy compared to textures and sounds, this won't be much
13:37 Fixer red-001: weather mod forked by xaranas is quite nice, the only problem is if you use lightning
13:37 Fixer fuck updatelightning!
13:37 Fixer wonder where is Millersman with his water reflow pr
13:37 rubenwardy we also don't have the JVM looming over us, so we have more RAM to spare
13:38 segfault22 Weather would be best implemented in the engine; making a mod for weather because the engine doesn't have an api for it is like making a mod for mob-entities because the engine doesn't have an api for it, and using nodes to represent them
13:38 segfault22 er, an api in the engine, accessible via the Lua api
13:38 red-001 wouldn't being able to change the cloud colour be useful for weather mods?
13:38 segfault22 well yes
13:38 rubenwardy being able to control cloud placement would be even more useful :D
13:38 Fixer red-001: yes
13:39 Fixer clouds are client side
13:39 segfault22 so it would be best to extend the Lua API to include a system for weather; we can steal one from minecraft and just use textures that make it look like a bunch of rain is falling, instead of trying to render a particle per raindrop
13:40 Hirato we kind of just drop a billboard per raindrop now, haha
13:40 APNG segfault22, ew
13:40 segfault22 imagine it starts raining all of a sudden and each raindrop is a particle entity, and there's well over 400 of 'em
13:40 APNG just use a shader
13:40 Fixer not sure if texture is good for this
13:40 red-001 welcome to game dev, if you can't write it, just fake it
13:40 Fixer APNG: shaders are slowing down a lot
13:40 APNG a proper shader-based rain is much better than stupid things
13:40 Hirato if you're doing proper raindrops, I'd expect at least 10k present on screen :P
13:41 Fixer whats the big problem with particles?
13:41 APNG shaders can do 10k raindrops
13:41 red-001 APNG you would need someone to write the shader
13:41 Fixer I've played Project IGI that got particles in 2001 and it was running fine
13:41 Fixer rain
13:41 APNG red-001, GLSL isn't hard
13:41 segfault22 shaders are only good if you have a fast grafix processor to compute them, otherwise you're looking at some 0.3 FPS while some mob is ripping your face off and all you can do is listen to the low-latency sound system tell you how its going down
13:41 Hirato I think they might be spawned server side in minetest
13:41 Fixer don't bother with shaders
13:41 Fixer or textures
13:42 APNG segfault22, then tune down the shader a bit
13:42 Fixer if you enable shaders you loose a lot of performance without much benefit
13:42 red-001 hirato they are clientsided
13:42 Hirato red-001: oh, did that change?
13:43 Hirato I jsut remember the weather mod being very slow with almost no rain density with it creating little water puddles all over the place
13:44 red-001 Idk
13:44 segfault22 it doesnt have to create water puddles; it can simply infleunce the node's humidity value, but thats a topic for many years from now when the node system is entirely different and everything is smooth because volumes of material instead of cubes of crap
13:45 Fixer puddles will slow down everything to sgit
13:45 Hirato probably didn't help that I tend to use debug builds
13:45 Fixer + lots of light update causes fps stutter
13:45 Hirato which is apparently about 20x slower than the release one in the case of minetest
13:45 segfault22 puddles have to be implemented by placing nodes randomly, but it would be different if the humidity property of dirt nodes at the ground is incremented relative to how much rain is falling
13:46 segfault22 not that there is a humidity property yet, but that would be better because it would give the water somewhere to "go" and make tree growth have more sense
13:49 segfault22 still not sure what to call that power-systems mod I'm going to make...
13:49 segfault22 applied magnetodynamics (amd)?
13:50 segfault22 thermal expansion is already taken and I don't want to be called "the ripoff clone guy"
13:51 segfault22 applied energistics is also taken
13:55 segfault22 meh, applied magnetodynamics it is
13:56 segfault22 maybe I should make an irc-client script to get the name of every person connected to the channel and recursively say their names one by one into chat as fast as possible
13:56 Hirato recursively?
13:56 segfault22 sayone, enter, say next, enter, say next, enter, and so on
13:57 Hirato the word you're looknig for is iteratively
13:57 segfault22 not sure if I spelled it right or its the wrong word
13:57 segfault22 yes, iteratively
13:57 segfault22 sorry'
13:57 redblade joined #minetest
13:57 segfault22 is "applied magnetodynamics" a catchy mod-name?
13:58 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetestmapper: Document --colors in README 79121ad https://git.io/v6hKX (2016-08-28T15:58:06+02:00)
13:58 segfault22 yay :D
13:59 Hirato gosh sfan5, at leasst spell colours correctly ;)
13:59 sfan5 :D
13:59 shivajiva XD
13:59 segfault22 xD
14:00 shivajiva segfault I think tenplus1 has a script for that
14:01 Hirato !rainbow puppies!
14:01 MinetestBot 4pu7pp8ie3s!
14:01 sfan5 !cat
14:01 MinetestBot http://i.imgur.com/3l1REu3.jpg
14:02 Hirato disappointed by lack of nyancat
14:02 sfan5 :D
14:02 sfan5 !cat
14:02 MinetestBot http://i.imgur.com/9tHeEYj.jpg
14:04 segfault22 !cat
14:04 MinetestBot http://i.imgur.com/ZT2jVRu.jpg
14:04 fusion44 joined #minetest
14:04 segfault22 that's cool
14:04 Wuzzy joined #minetest
14:05 Hirato less of that, more of this http://i.imgur.com/GsXRJDK.jpg
14:05 segfault22 ...
14:05 segfault22 ... ...
14:05 segfault22 cat?
14:05 Hirato ...!
14:06 segfault22 I thought it was cat not rainbow poptart anime
14:07 segfault22 if someone hosts a minetest server with illegal content that is sent to everyone's minetest texture cache, are the affected players criminals for having downloaded it?
14:07 sfan5 no
14:07 segfault22 or not because plausible deniability
14:07 Hirato http://i.imgur.com/7KKRBTr.jpg :3
14:07 sfan5 law is interpreted by courts with common sense, not computers
14:07 sfan5 Hirato: >furry
14:08 Hirato who cares, it's nyancat
14:08 segfault22 oh did you know that jurors can determine the outcome of a trial, even decide that it should be contrary to the "law"
14:08 Hirato not nyancatgirl
14:08 sfan5 yes
14:08 Hirato segfault22: did you know that juries are never told about jury nullification
14:08 segfault22 of course
14:09 segfault22 that's how I found out about it - some fringe website with "other crap" like rusia's tesla technology program, longitudinal EM waves, how magnets really work and stuff like that
14:09 segfault22 russia
14:09 Hirato so how do magnets really work
14:09 APNG I wish minetest had more furries
14:10 segfault22 okay so you know how you can make a coil of wire, pass a current through it and it generates a magmetic field? and it consumes real power the whole while?
14:10 segfault22 magnetic
14:10 segfault22 permanent magnets are the same, except they're made up of a bunch of tiny electromagnets being powered by... space itself.
14:11 APNG segfault22, no
14:11 segfault22 you don't have to put power into them to make them work, but the consume real power - the power is coming in from the environment, so no violation of thermodynamics
14:11 APNG it's not the magnetic field that's consuming the power
14:11 APNG it's the heat
14:11 segfault22 whatever
14:11 segfault22 you have to produce a current, to put electrons in motion you have to use energy
14:11 APNG a superconductor consumes no power
14:12 segfault22 right, unless you want to turn it on, and unless there is parasitic inductance to nearby resistive materials
14:12 segfault22 or parasitic capacitance
14:12 APNG true
14:12 red-001 did the PR for adding the on_enter event to formspecs get mergerd?
14:12 APNG the same is true of permanent magnets, when you make a permanent magnet you basically just turn it on
14:13 segfault22 electrons spin around the nucleus of atoms perpetually, even though some amount of resistance is "felt" by every electron
14:13 couchakrobat joined #minetest
14:14 segfault22 now, do you want to know how to "toggle" a permanent magnet on/off?
14:14 APNG heat it up to the currie temp and apply a magnetic field, then, while keeping the magnetic field on, cool the new permanent magnet down
14:15 segfault22 okay without using the same amount of power needed to initialize the field in the first place
14:15 shivajiva Sweet's VT anyone?
14:15 APNG what do you mean?
14:15 segfault22 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_UHixEy7xU
14:17 segfault22 the VTA is a little bit too fringe for here, there's no way you can put stuff you have in your house into a form to demonstrate it because Floyd Sweet took the knowledge to his grave
14:18 segfault22 let's only consider stuff that you can make by, say, tearing apart broken fan motors and raping transformer coils for magnet wire; stuff where the concept that makes it work is understood well enough for anyone to replicate it
14:20 segfault22 remember that video I just linked to? Well, take a ring magnet and put a bunch of small electromagnets on it, construct a rotor with one or more smaller magnets on it and placed near the ring magnet with the coils between them, power each coil when a rotor magnet is above it and now you are producing more shaft torque power than the power needed to run the electromagnets - how? by diferting the permanent magnet's field and making it work for you.
14:20 segfault22 I am not supposed to say that they will probably come for me dont tell your family
14:21 shivajiva :)
14:21 segfault22 xD
14:22 segfault22 nah they only come for you if you try to make money from the power, or sell/give-away units to other people, right?
14:22 shivajiva yea, just checking if it had been absorbed ;-)
14:24 segfault22 so can they "see" you using the magnets' power like they can see you tapping the ZPE field with the VTA? or does it just "look" like any ol' fan motor on the "scanner"
14:24 shivajiva VTA scared the crap out of him when he went over 1Kw if the tales are true
14:25 segfault22 yeah I read somewhere that the magnets are stressed immensely and that they could explode like hand grenades
14:25 segfault22 not something to try at home even if we did know how
14:25 shivajiva supposedly everyone in the building heard a vortex
14:25 segfault22 cool
14:26 segfault22 I love stuff like that, even if it is dangerous
14:26 aix guys
14:26 shivajiva yea tesla's stuff is so dangerous
14:26 aix can i have a little hand with a mod
14:26 segfault22 yes
14:26 aix it's minimesecons
14:26 segfault22 ok whats the problem?
14:27 aix https://sr.ht/NtdG.txt ignoring this, ghoststone disappears after being placed
14:28 segfault22 that's weird
14:28 aix never happened before
14:28 segfault22 I haven't any experience with that kind of problem,... what happens when you power the spot its supposed to be, with a mesecon?
14:29 aix it disappears then reappears when the signal is taken away
14:29 aix then disappears and doesnt come back
14:31 Void7 joined #minetest
14:33 rubenwardy !title https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=15419
14:33 MinetestBot rubenwardy: [Mod] Text / Code Editor [0.1][editor] - Minetest Forums
14:35 Krock that init.lua has an error on line 1
14:36 rubenwardy yep :P
14:36 KaadmY joined #minetest
14:38 couchakrobat left #minetest
14:38 Fixer ._.
14:39 Fixer Posts: 4242
14:39 Fixer what spammer
14:39 Fixer rank: spammer
14:40 Krock I have 3421 posts.. what a spammer
14:41 rubenwardy nice number, 4242
14:41 rubenwardy I've almost caught up with Jordach
14:41 hmmmm joined #minetest
14:42 aix segfault22: here http://naco.aix.ovh:8080/
14:42 Krock It's the answer or life, universe and everything, TWO times!
14:44 agaran is there some routine that turns pos into hex string?
14:45 rubenwardy tbf, I don't shit post
14:45 rubenwardy well, not sure if I have in the past
14:45 whitephoenix joined #minetest
14:52 raingloom joined #minetest
14:54 Jordach rubenwardy, try being away for nearly ~3 years
14:54 mouboo joined #minetest
14:54 rubenwardy Jordach, very very true :)
14:54 KaadmY "for nearly about 3 years"
14:54 rubenwardy it's impressive it's taken me this long to cache up
14:55 KaadmY catch*?
14:55 rubenwardy oh yeah
14:55 twoelk joined #minetest
14:56 mouboo hey there. If i use the world Anchor from the Technic mod. he didnt keeps my network loaded. it says 0/8 loaded. What am i doing wrong?
15:02 namach joined #minetest
15:03 Jordach rubenwardy, life plus some other stuff, i feel like making a dark souls level difficult subgame
15:04 Jordach "you died" -> loss of items and respawn from -30k to 30k
15:04 red-001 sounds fun
15:06 rubenwardy I would try that
15:06 rubenwardy although Minetest's weapons system sucks
15:06 Jordach it's literally a new beginning, although you could find relics if you're lucky
15:06 aix is there a simple http server i can use to share the contents of a mod without zipping the whole thing up?
15:07 shivajiva github :)
15:07 aix the mime type's wrong but here http://naco.aix.ovh:8080/
15:07 aix too much effort on my part
15:07 aix i meant sharing for debugging
15:07 aix and it's hardly my own mod
15:07 rubenwardy please don't host a mod yourself
15:08 aix ...
15:08 rubenwardy segfault22 can tell you what happened when 0gb_us hosted a mod yourself
15:08 aix it's broken and i need help debugging
15:08 rubenwardy oh, ok
15:08 aix i figured this'd be helpful
15:08 rubenwardy that's fine then
15:08 agaran rubenwardy: why hosting mod on own stuff is bad?
15:08 red-001 https://transfer.sh/
15:08 aix but the mime type isn's "text/plain" so it offers to open the file instead of showing it in the browser
15:09 rubenwardy because people have a tendency to disappear, agaran
15:09 rubenwardy tbf, only hosting a mod at one place is the problem
15:09 red-001 why don't you want to zip it up?
15:09 agaran well sometimes it is a feature
15:09 red-001 it takes seconds
15:10 aix can i get some help with my broken mod? :P
15:10 red-001 yes?
15:14 aix also, how hard would it be to merge the zcg mod with the xdecor crafting guide?
15:15 * twoelk has launched 10 equal balls in rubenwardy's gravity simulation page a while ago and notices he doesn't understand celestial physics at all
15:16 agrecascino joined #minetest
15:17 red-001 link?
15:18 LNJ2GO joined #minetest
15:25 Void7 joined #minetest
15:28 rubenwardy twoelk, well, it simulates the gravity and relativity equations, but not collision
15:28 rubenwardy http://physics.rubenwardy.com/    http://physics.rubenwardy.co​m/sims/gravity/gravity.html
15:28 rubenwardy red-001 ^
15:30 segfault22 we can define gravity with constants and equations, but mainstream sciense still doesn't know how it works
15:30 segfault22 science
15:30 segfault22 Can you make a simulator that accurately predicts gravity based on the zero-point field theory of gravity?
15:30 betterthanyou710 joined #minetest
15:31 segfault22 too many subdomains
15:32 twoelk and I guess no movement energy is lost, so that they might never form a stable heap such as when the planets formed
15:33 rubenwardy that sim's still a work in progress™
15:33 rubenwardy that collision code is place holder
15:33 segfault22 Can you make a simulator that accurately predicts gravity based on the zero-point field theory of gravity?
15:33 twoelk after forming a heap with relative little inner movement the balls disband aghain all over the screen
15:33 rubenwardy no idea, I'd have to read some stuff about that
15:34 segfault22 its kinda fringe
15:34 aritz joined #minetest
15:35 aix anyone have a copy of morefurnaces?
15:35 aritz Do you know any Spanish Server for Minetest??
15:35 aritz (nobady in the Spanish channel, sorry)
15:36 segfault22 basically your constants and equations have to be used to get the "numbers" because nobody has done the work there yet, but the idea goes like this: the zero point field exerts a constant force in all directions in all space free of matter. But when it passes through matter, the field is "dampened", so in terms of just one ray of the force for example, it is dampened passing through the earth, but on the other side the opposite force is greater sin
15:36 segfault22 ce it wasn't dampened by passing through matter, and a net force is generated
15:37 segfault22 when you try to look it up on google, you get either zero-point theory results or generic gravity results, and images is full of the physics gun from gary's mod, so I'll have to link you to the website where I found it
15:38 twoelk force generated? from what?
15:39 segfault22 ... the zero-point field, what else?
15:39 twoelk so it stores energy?
15:39 segfault22 matter doesn't just generate a force from nothing, it has to come from somewhere
15:39 segfault22 no its like a seething sea of energy in limitless quantity
15:40 twoelk so from nothing after all?
15:40 segfault22 not quite
15:41 segfault22 it only looks like nothing because we feeble humans can't "see" the source, but then again we can't see radio waves, so why should a tv set work?
15:41 twoelk or is a universe full of energy slowly converting to somer other form?
15:42 segfault22 do you think the universe is a closed system?
15:42 segfault22 er, the observable portion
15:43 twoelk always thought so :D
15:43 segfault22 remember there's all that dark matter and dark energy we can't see and also can't explain, we only know its there because we can see some of the after-effects
15:44 twoelk strilkl part of the system - albeit needed to explain what we can observe
15:44 twoelk *still
15:45 segfault22 electrons don't ever slow down orbiting their nucleus, we could just say "derp uncertainty principle derp" but that doesn't explain how they can continue to do work against resistance like their parasitic inductance and capacitance with all other electrons, especially the electrons of nearby atoms moving the opposite way
15:46 segfault22 do you believe in the casimir effect?
15:47 twoelk friction is simply too small  campared to their orbital energy ;-P
15:48 segfault22 too small maybe, but not 0
15:48 segfault22 there is always a net drag or resistance even if it is tiny, and it would be measurable
15:49 segfault22 therefore, energy is coming in from "somewhere" to keep that orbital energy replenished against that tiny resistance
15:49 twoelk dont recall anything like  casimir effect - school is somewhat long ago
15:49 segfault22 you won't learn about this stuff ins school
15:49 twoelk so I guessed
15:50 segfault22 this is like beyond the fringes of mainstream science, you could say it's a sort of "twilight zone"
15:50 Megaf joined #minetest
15:51 * red-001 waits for someone to implement this in minetest
15:51 twoelk I only studied the physics of building and most rockets I built sort of exploded :D
15:51 segfault22 there's lots of knowledge, proof to back it up and experiments you can do to confirm the theory, but if you try to look it up on wikipedia or science research websites, you get either "no results" or some guy saying "derp thats just pseudoscience derp" (without actually doing said experiments, of course)
15:51 * red-001 will wait for a long time
15:54 segfault22 you'll notice one massive coincidence where the people who deny a lot of theories like zero-point gravity and permanent magnets consuming real power, will either do no experiments to investigate and have proof to support their claims, or they will do the experiment but in such a way that is obviously contradicting how it is set-out by the people who come up with the "theory"
15:54 Void7 joined #minetest
15:55 segfault22 like, they make this wild contraption using permanent magnets to try to suststain its motion forever or produce extra torque, but it's obvious how they set it up that it wouldn't really work except as a really inefficient magnetic bearing, then they use it as "proof" to claim there is no real power being consumed by permanent magnets
15:55 rubenwardy this is the only paper I get in a search: http://journals.aps.org/pra/abs​tract/10.1103/PhysRevA.39.2333
15:56 rubenwardy is that the right thing and does it have other names?
15:56 segfault22 I remember that word, Zitterbewegung, from the site where I learned about it...
15:56 segfault22 it looks like the right one (or one of)
15:57 segfault22 aww but its a damn paywall scam site, too bad
15:57 agaran is there any mechanism that will indicate than >1 recipe matches to given substrates?
15:57 segfault22 I'll try to find the reference on that other site I found it on
15:57 segfault22 :D
15:58 segfault22 I still think it's a scam, to force people to pay for science literature, when the actual scientists doing the work don't get any of that money, just the people who run the paysite (usually a university or a university-cabal)
15:59 rubenwardy It is
15:59 rubenwardy easpecially sites like JCAR or whatever it's called
15:59 rubenwardy which stop journals falling out of copyright, and host them explusively
15:59 rubenwardy *clusively
15:59 segfault22 the scientists get a few peanuts a day for teaching kiddos some mainstream science stuff they're allowed to talk about, not anything like what the actual owners get for "their big part"
16:00 segfault22 they may get a few cents for each copy that someone pays for, but it's nothing like what gets taken home by the people "running the show"
16:00 aritz how can I accept rules in a server??
16:00 segfault22 and most of it doesn't even go into real costs to "run the show", just profits for nothing
16:00 red-001 depends on the server
16:01 red-001 try /rules
16:01 red-001 or /rules accept
16:01 twoelk /me misses his status as university member
16:02 segfault22 if its just a list on some signs or in chat, then usually there isn't any need to signify that you accept. But if it prompts you to accept by typing a command or clicking a button, then it's what to do
16:03 segfault22 I will never be a university member; it costs too much and there isn't any real benefit. Sure, you get access to all of this mainstream science literature and some free peanuts every so often, but you will never find anything like what you can find in just a few minutes of searching the internet for the "banned knowledge" they are so afraid of
16:06 betterthanyou710 joined #minetest
16:09 Nosrick agrecascino, new shit will be coming soon.
16:12 segfault22 joined #minetest
16:12 Calinou segfault22: my university pays me, I don't pay for it
16:12 rubenwardy that took longer than expected
16:13 twoelk lucky you Calinou , those jobs never lasted long for me
16:14 Calinou it's not a job, it's a scholarship
16:16 twoelk ah, wasn't smart enough for that ;-P
16:17 Jordach rubenwardy, aahhhhhhhh physics D:
16:17 rubenwardy TheReaperKing, edited to add an example snippet: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=9&amp;t=15419&amp;p=231411#p231411
16:18 rubenwardy edited again
16:18 twoelk I only got the one or other odd job at university, always limited, so others got a chance
16:19 agaran rubenwardy: awesome :)
16:21 segfault22 thank you rubenwardy :D
16:22 segfault22 hey, this one was typed on a typewriter back in March 1988, but they still charge people to access it
16:24 segfault22 rubenwardy I would have never gotten to read the actual paper had you not given it to me, thank you :D
16:24 rubenwardy welcome :D
16:25 segfault22 make sure to remove it soon, though, so "they" don't come after you for giving away a resource for free from behind their paywall
16:26 twoelk so being part of a university has benefits after all
16:27 twoelk integrals? ugh, I never could get on friendly terms with those
16:32 segfault22 So do you think the mod name "applied magnetodynamics" is catchy, or is it just lame? to be honest, "thermal expansion" is way more catchy and not lame, but it's already taken
16:32 segfault22 at least I could make the mod id/shortname "amd"
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16:37 TheReaperKing Hey thanks rubenwardy!!
16:37 TheReaperKing We'll test it on Tuesday!  Monday we're covering installing linux :)
16:37 segfault22 :D
16:37 red-001 abusing faulty physics mod
16:38 red-001 yet another energy mod?
16:39 red-001 yaem for short
16:40 rubenwardy split editor into editor (a API/library mod) and insecure lua editor: https://github.com/rubenwardy/editor_insecure_lua
16:40 rubenwardy there, pushed
16:40 twoelk well you learn to manipulate things according to a set of rules. doesnt matter wether its fantasy, science fiction, real live or game logic as long as it is logical according to its own rules and relative fun to use
16:42 twoelk probably life is simply used to it and has learned to get along
16:43 aix i'm watching some players do the join maze on my server and im wondering
16:43 aix how can people be this dumb
16:43 segfault22 lol
16:44 rubenwardy !title https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=15420
16:44 MinetestBot rubenwardy: [Mod] Insecure Lua Editor [0.1][editor_insecure_lua] - Minetest Forums
16:44 resident joined #minetest
16:44 segfault22 looks like fun
16:46 segfault22 by "insecure" do you mean "players can use this to deop all admins while away, grant themselves and their buds all privileges, and proceed to rape everything in the game-world with explosives and worldedit in massive gravel-cubes until the server dies"?
16:46 rubenwardy yes
16:46 segfault22 xD
16:46 aix sounds like fun
16:48 segfault22 I remember in the past, I used some social engineering to get grant and worldedit privileges on menche's server, banned the idiots while he was away, destroyed everything with lava, then spawned massive gravel-cubes and set them all in motion at the same time,... the sun set and rose several times without lighting changing at all, it was so creepy but I had fun
16:49 rubenwardy Oh noes! He's a griefer!
16:50 aix segfault22: ...
16:50 aix that sounds like GREAT FUN
16:52 segfault22 it was because he let some kid destroy a creeper face thing I made near my town, let the same kid take-over my town because in the past I said she could be mayor if I could be "emperor" over several towns of mine (he basically said "derp thats not allowed derp shes owner now derp"), then gave her /grant privileges and she took away my shout privilege when I was trying to convince him to give me back my town
16:52 resident what's a good mineCRAFT modpack that has to do with alchemy and magic
16:53 * twoelk checks his bouncing gravity centers and notices 4 less than a while ago
16:53 segfault22 He obviously didn't care about the only player who spent any significant time there relative to the others, the only one pretty much responsible for supporting the gold-based economy, the only one with a public tree farm, etc etc etc...
16:54 segfault22 so even after it was all fixed back to what it was before, the server lost popularity and all of that traffic faded away, starting the day I was no longer allowed to connect
16:54 segfault22 he eventually shut it down because nobody would even come to the server for more time than it takes to realize its abandoned
16:55 fusion44 joined #minetest
16:56 segfault22 It didn't have to be that way but he determined the outcome as soon as he decided to get rid of his server's only loyal player
16:56 resident whom are you talking to
16:57 segfault22 Therefore, I am glad the server is gone, I am glad for what I did, and I know it would have happened even if I didn't grief everything, and I don't care if anyone thinks I'm a bad person for it - they don't know the story so they have no room to be judging who'se right
16:57 segfault22 whom am I talking to? whoever will listen. Who am I talking about? menche
16:58 segfault22 [12:49:50] rubenwardy: Oh noes! He's a griefer!
16:58 segfault22 xD
16:58 Ronsor wew
16:58 Ronsor wait a griefer
16:58 Ronsor where
16:58 Ronsor i banned that
17:00 segfault22 I'm not really a griefer like your average griefer, but when I am provoked by, say, being the only loyal player on your server and you ruining everything I worked so hard to build just to spite me, then I will use social engineering (and sometimes spoof the names of popular people like sfan5, sorry but its part of the "game" at that stage) to get control of the server and rip a new rear-end-hole in it with falling gravel cubes so massive you cant s
17:00 segfault22 ee all of it on one screen
17:01 Ronsor ok see /r/justiceporn mmk
17:01 sfan5 cool
17:01 sfan5 can you fuck off maybe
17:01 segfault22 and if I get SSH access to the console where the bash script is running (unlikely, because its illegal to do that and I don't have the 1337 h4xx0r t00lz) I can delete your backups and/or overwrite all of them with the screwed-world database
17:01 segfault22 sfan5 I don't mean anything personal against you, they were idiots and they had it coming already
17:02 segfault22 they didn't even care to notice I mistyped the name blatantly, it was obvious by they still let me in
17:02 segfault22 you're a good person and they know it wasn't you, its just social-engineering/return-business for what they did to me
17:02 sfan5 assholes gotta be assholes i guess
17:03 segfault22 You don't know what they did
17:03 TheReaperKing Thanks rubenwardy!  Downloading
17:03 segfault22 it had to be done, even though the result (server lost popularity because economy died, tree farm went into ruin, etc.) would have been the same regardless
17:04 twoelk I dont believe in revenge as a working system on any server or playing community as such
17:04 CuriousErnestBro left #minetest
17:04 segfault22 It had nothing to do with you, especially since they quickly figured out it was good ol' me back for revenge
17:05 segfault22 there's only one place for it: when they treat you unequally for whatever reason, even though you're the most loyal player who basically created the whole economy, and decide its time to screw you and destroy everything you worked so hard to create (give it away to some kid who plays with it like a kid smashing toy cars into each-other)
17:07 segfault22 sure, it's not right, and I know this; but what they did is still unacceptable, and the end result was inevitable regardless of if I had just decided to forget and let them be (server lost popularity, got took down); I was just having fun
17:08 segfault22 unacceptable, as in if they were doing this in the real world where people can't just leave the server, the whole town would have took to the streets with their guns and lit-up torches, janked the perps out of their cozy beds at night, hung em up on a tree from their legs and I don't need to illustrate the rest.
17:08 segfault22 it's not cool, it's not right, but they had it coming, and they also had backups so it didn't matter
17:09 twoelk and I guess people who gain satisfaction from revenge sort of creep me out besides annoying me. I greatly dislike the thinking of "if I cant have it, nobody should"
17:09 Megaf !server MineDigger
17:09 MinetestBot Megaf: MineDiggerTestServer | mt.megaf.info | Clients: 2/50, 1/6 | Version: 0.4.14 / MineDigger | Ping: 6ms
17:09 Megaf !server Megaf
17:09 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 1/20, 0/2 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 8ms
17:10 segfault22 it's not the thinking of "f I can;t have it, nobody should" - it's the thinking of "I gave them everything and they decided to screw me and took all the little bit of what I had left over for myself, so this is what they get for it"
17:10 agaran Megaf: two servers?
17:11 segfault22 really I was the only player on the server mining any significant amount of ore, the only one who created a public tree farm, the only one to maintain a useful road-system, the only one to do pretty much everything that made the server worth visiting
17:11 Megaf agaran: the MineDigger one is a server running my very own fork of the Minetest Engine and custom subgame
17:11 Megaf it's just a test though
17:11 agaran ah
17:12 segfault22 I never want to grief anyone's server,... but if they grief me, game over.
17:12 twoelk segfault22: so it has to end in total destruction for all?
17:13 segfault22 not really because they had backups, and I already knew the server was losing popularity and eventually it would get taken down (it was like a week after they did it to me, there used to be a constant 5 orso players online then it only had about one or occasionally two every so often)
17:14 segfault22 the whole point is, it was already ending in total destruction regardless of what I did. The server was on its way out because I was pretty much the only one holding the place together.
17:14 segfault22 and when they kicked me out, people stopped coming back because there wasn't much resources to be had easily, and the other good people were leaving too
17:15 PseudoNoob joined #minetest
17:15 edaq joined #minetest
17:15 segfault22 when I was there, you could collect some trees or whatever and exchange them for gold, then take that gold and exchange it for diamonds and get all your best tools for less work-time than usual.
17:15 segfault22 when they kicked me out, the economy ran out and people were left to go fend for themselves like it's just singleplayer
17:15 twoelk still, knowing there are backups should  not be used as an excuse for griefing
17:16 Yst joined #minetest
17:16 segfault22 backups is not an only excuse, remember the server was already dying because the economy was getting picked by the buzzards and people were left to fend for themselves just like singleplayer, it was no fun and people were leaving and never coming back
17:17 segfault22 I have already stated that it wasn't right to do what I did, but you weren't there to see what they did to me so how would you know anyways?
17:17 Nosrick Does a player have an on_die function?
17:17 blerttt joined #minetest
17:17 segfault22 I hope so
17:17 Megaf agaran: http://git.megaf.info/Megaf/MineDigger
17:18 Trustable joined #minetest
17:18 segfault22 Don't you have any other argument for why it was so bad for me to do what I did? come on, you haven't given up judging me have you?
17:18 TheReaperKing I guess his name is apt at least
17:19 segfault22 I thought I would finally get a chance to let people know why it happened the way it did, when they were never there to know and all they get for information is the server-owner ranting about how bad of a person I am for "ruining his server"
17:20 blerttt where can i find minetest player model?
17:20 TheReaperKing Why don't you talk to the actual admin
17:20 TheReaperKing instead of people that don't know anything about it or have nothing to do with it
17:20 segfault22 the actual admin also left minetest, or at least it looks that way
17:20 twoelk indeed I may have never witnissed your genius at trolling segfault22, but I have played on many servers for quite a while and have expierienced many an idiot who spoiled the game for me.
17:21 TheReaperKing blerttt:  games/minetest_game/mods/default/models
17:21 segfault22 Here's some "thought food": if the other players were even partially loyal, and the server backups restored in short time like they were, why did people stop coming back and playing on the server only after I was kicked out and before I decided to go on my rampage?
17:21 blerttt ty reaper king
17:22 TheReaperKing :)
17:22 twoelk maybe they missed the drama?  ;-P
17:22 Nosrick They probably didn't want to deal with you.
17:22 segfault22 some people were playing on the server for a while and eventually left, but they had fun when I was there because the economy was thriving. If they had not kicked me out for being angry about the server owner giving my town away, it would be thriving today and popular
17:22 Nosrick In case you came back, I mean.
17:22 twoelk people simply move on and once the get established elsewher simply don't look back
17:23 TheReaperKing seems like everyone lost out
17:23 TheReaperKing over an issue that sounds like it could have been talked over and resolved
17:23 Nosrick Yeah, people don't know how to communicate these days.
17:23 Nosrick Instead jumping to childish actions, like griefing, or banning.
17:23 Nosrick /old man rant
17:24 TheReaperKing I think what you just said is super relevant in general
17:24 segfault22 No, I tried to talk it out and resolve it and you know what happened? The server owner made the kid an administrator, and she took away my chat privilege when I tried to reason with the dude
17:24 TheReaperKing I mean wow at my work like to the max
17:24 TheReaperKing sounds like that was a good time to find a new server
17:24 segfault22 they didn't even realize she did it until I started communicating to them through a sign
17:24 Nosrick Wow, that sucks.
17:25 TheReaperKing Yeah it is amazing the problems that wouldn't exist if just some simple communication and respect were present
17:25 segfault22 I tried to reason with them and resolve the issues, but they wouldn't have it - its as id they were entirely set on making sure that I get removed from the server forever
17:25 Nosrick Well, you did shit all over everything in retaliation.
17:26 TheReaperKing If that server became a source of angst for you instead being fun, why come back?
17:26 segfault22 There was plenty of communication and I respected the server owner and all of the players. They were good friends up until they decided to come against me
17:26 Megaf dpkg: unrecoverable fatal error, aborting:
17:26 Megaf fork failed: Cannot allocate memory
17:26 TheReaperKing sounds like it isn't worth your time and mental energy anymore
17:26 * Megaf needs more ram
17:26 segfault22 it isn't, really
17:26 Nosrick "I respected the server owner and all of the players" he lied, having griefed everything
17:26 TheReaperKing and the griefing obviously didn't do you any good
17:26 TheReaperKing perhaps even made things worse for you
17:26 segfault22 Okay I'll be more accurate: I respected them up until they decided to stop respecting me, and destroy everything I created FOR them
17:27 TheReaperKing as can be seen by your extreme amount of venting in here to people who have zero part of any of it
17:27 segfault22 As I explained before, people were leaving and not coming back when they found out that the economy I had created was completely wiped-out
17:27 TheReaperKing the griefing hurts you in other ways too
17:27 segfault22 it was several days before I decided to do the rampage
17:28 Nosrick Just curious; why are you telling a non-server related IRC channel all of this?
17:28 TheReaperKing not only is it obviously hurting you right now, but also since you are telling everyone they will be hesitant to allow you on new servers
17:28 twoelk nagged at his conscouisness so he had to reveal it and try to discuss his excusis for commiting havoc (argh - I need a faster dictionary)
17:28 segfault22 I won't be joining any new servers, I'm going to make my own
17:28 Megaf Nosrick: segfault22: If you want a server with decent and honest people just join my server, really
17:28 TheReaperKing Nosrick: I can answer that
17:28 Megaf most of us are 30+ years old and have jobs and family
17:28 Krock "most"
17:29 TheReaperKing it is because he is super upset and is venting whereever he can
17:29 agaran Megaf: interesting commit messages
17:29 Megaf 3 or 4 active players are less than 18
17:29 Megaf I'm 29
17:29 Nosrick Hey Megaf, when my mod is a little more complete, would you perhaps consider using it?
17:29 Megaf Nosrick: link?
17:29 Nosrick https://github.com/Nosrick/MoMTest
17:29 segfault22 I'm not still as angry as I was, but I still know what they did was wrong, and someone said something that led to me talking about what I did, and now we're here with all of you talking about how bad I am for what I did
17:29 Nosrick I wouldn't use it yet, it's a little unstable.
17:30 twoelk yep for others to read and learn
17:30 Nosrick If you really want to test it, use the develop branch for now.
17:30 Nosrick The master is a bit outdated.
17:30 TheReaperKing segfault22: seems like you are the only one talking about how bad you are
17:31 TheReaperKing I have a suggestion for you if you are willing to take it
17:31 Megaf well, in my server I have an easy way to fix conflicts, put the conflicting parties locked together in the jail and let them kill each other until they get bored and leave the server
17:31 TheReaperKing I think you should go for a run, or do some shadow boxing, or both
17:31 segfault22 Did I say I was a bad person?... I don't remember doing that
17:31 twoelk actually the social aspects of running a server can be a lot more demanding than technical issues
17:31 TheReaperKing well you are the only one who has said that you are a bad person
17:31 segfault22 and this was years ago, It doesn't really matter to me any more
17:31 TheReaperKing it obviously does
17:31 TheReaperKing or my chat wouldn't be filled with pink
17:32 TheReaperKing aka what pidgin chose to have your name as
17:32 segfault22 reference the chat-entry where I specifically said that I AM a bad person, and your claim stands, otherwise it's just a lie.
17:32 TheReaperKing also find a new server and new friends and put all that behind you
17:32 TheReaperKing it is the past, it is already done, can't be changed
17:32 TheReaperKing move on, have fun, stop living in it
17:32 TheReaperKing that is my advice
17:32 segfault22 I did find a new server, Redcrab's server, and it was fun while it lasted
17:32 TheReaperKing and go running
17:32 TheReaperKing vent out all that frustration
17:33 segfault22 I did find a new server, Redcrab's server, and it was fun while it lasted
17:33 TheReaperKing "we're here with all of you talking about how bad I am for what I did"
17:33 Nosrick What happened to Redcrab's server?
17:33 segfault22 but people stopped coming there, and the economy died on its own (it didnt start with me), so eventually I got bored playing hosted-singleplayer and left
17:33 TheReaperKing I didn't even have to scroll to find it
17:34 resident tamyang
17:34 segfault22 I didn't say I am bad, I said people are saying that I am bad. Its okay if english isn't your native language but wow
17:34 resident get moneh
17:34 resident chinee
17:34 resident tamyang
17:34 TheReaperKing As I said, you are the only one that said you are bad
17:34 Nosrick Megaf: what're your thoughts so far?
17:34 TheReaperKing and trying to take out your venting on me isn't going to work out well for you
17:34 segfault22 I didn't say I am bad, I said people are saying that I am bad. There is a difference
17:34 TheReaperKing but no one is, only you
17:35 segfault22 ...
17:35 segfault22 really?
17:35 TheReaperKing you are the only one judging yourself from what I've seen
17:36 TheReaperKing I would say griefing was a bad decision but doesn't necessarily make you a bad person
17:36 TheReaperKing especially if you learn from it
17:36 twoelk why starting a fight on wether something was said or not, when it's rather unimportand
17:36 Megaf Nosrick: I like the code so far. And about the thing itself, I'm not sure, I don't really understand this master of magic thing, do you have any screenshot?
17:36 Megaf or forum topic?
17:36 Nosrick No, nothing yet.
17:36 Megaf agaran: heh, I use very descriptive commits messages as you can see xP
17:36 TheReaperKing ooo master of magic
17:37 Nosrick I'm keeping it under wraps until I at least get something decent.
17:37 TheReaperKing sounds interesting
17:37 Megaf TheReaperKing: it does
17:37 TheReaperKing I think magic in MT would be awesome
17:37 TheReaperKing there is some but not a lot
17:37 Nosrick I'm hoping to implement a lot of fun stuff.
17:37 segfault22 Well none of it really matters now that the server died out on its own, like many others that have come and gone since.
17:37 TheReaperKing also it hides some of the latency issues with fighting the AI with melee
17:37 segfault22 this was like back when minetest was 0.4.3
17:37 agaran Megaf: yep
17:37 TheReaperKing that's what I learned in adventuretest
17:38 TheReaperKing which is why I recommended he starts the player with the magic missile wand
17:38 Nosrick In phase two of the mod, I'm going to be implementing cities!
17:38 TheReaperKing You know what I need to learn is terrain modifying "spells"
17:38 segfault22 I had fun on other servers for a long time, building towns with people living in them and stuff, but I eventually got bored because of the lack of variation in stone and ores, and a good tool system
17:39 TheReaperKing segfault22: I hope you find peace with all of that and also find a new fun server or activity in general to do
17:39 Nosrick I'm hoping to write some fun terraforming spells, TheReaperKing
17:39 TheReaperKing I teach using MT in schools and I think the kids would go nuts being able to create using "spells"
17:39 segfault22 I stopped playing on servers and decided to work on mods, and someday start my own server where I will showcase said mods which I believe will be revolutionary
17:40 TheReaperKing segfault22: please let me know when you do
17:40 TheReaperKing I would love to join
17:40 segfault22 well thank you, I'm glad
17:40 TheReaperKing I love seeing people's creativiyt
17:40 TheReaperKing creativity
17:40 twoelk yeah, kids love legal ways of cheating disguised as magic ;-)
17:40 Nosrick What mods are you working on, segfault22?
17:40 segfault22 I want it to be like the servers I had fun at, like Redcrab's and a few others, before they went away...
17:41 TheReaperKing my kids are 6th-8th and I've won many awards for my game work, but they routinely kick my ass in creativity, I love it
17:41 GunshipPenguin joined #minetest
17:41 segfault22 I'm making a resource system mod, where materials are registered and given definite properties like strength/density and a name/id, from that any item/node/tool is created with a single line of code and having its properties based on the material it is made of
17:41 twoelk yeah working with kids keeps your mind alert
17:41 Megaf !seen LazyJ
17:41 MinetestBot Megaf: lazyj was last seen at 2016-08-26 02:43:34 UTC on #minetest
17:41 Megaf !seen Darkside
17:41 TheReaperKing My favorite is they designed this pool with a subbasment and they actually pump water from the subbasement to the pool
17:41 Megaf !seen Darkside
17:41 MinetestBot Megaf: Sorry, I haven't seen darkside around.
17:42 Megaf !seen Darkside_
17:42 MinetestBot Megaf: darkside_ was last seen at 2016-08-26 19:06:27 UTC on #minetest
17:42 TheReaperKing er subbasement
17:42 TheReaperKing apparently I can't spell today
17:42 Megaf !time
17:42 segfault22 also, I'm thinking about making a power-system mod that uses a system I haven't seen implemented anywhere, but I haven't started yet
17:42 TheReaperKing segfault22: these ideas sound very interesting
17:42 Megaf segfault22: define power-system
17:43 segfault22 it will have some features like the thermal expansion mod for minecraft, like the cool looking conduits and storage "cells", but a lot of the rest will be very different
17:43 TheReaperKing my recommendation with any type of project is start small and build on it
17:43 segfault22 that's what I plan to do :D
17:43 * twoelk is reminded to work more on his roman map
17:43 TheReaperKing a lot of people have all these grandiose ideas and then never get anywhere because they realize how hard it is
17:44 TheReaperKing and twoelk awesome, sounds like a map we should play in class :)
17:44 TheReaperKing last week we toured the NYC map
17:44 segfault22 my resources-system mod started out as some dumb moreores clone, but then I started discovering ways to easily register new tools/items/nodes, first with a clunky ipairs machine and finally with an elegant function-system
17:44 TheReaperKing sounds awesome
17:44 segfault22 now it doesn't have anything registered by default, and is entirely configurable to add whatever you want with a single line instead of a whole minetest.register_*() block
17:44 TheReaperKing You need to take that energy you had venting and apply it to this
17:44 Megaf segfault22: you should contribute/start the code for my electrical engineering for Minetest
17:44 TheReaperKing and you will have something incredible
17:45 agaran twoelk: roman map?
17:45 twoelk yeah, wish I knew what I want so I could ask others to code it as I simply suck at larger coding projects
17:45 TheReaperKing I'm just learning myself
17:46 TheReaperKing if I can get any code to work I'm happy haha
17:46 twoelk agaran: a project I started a year ago swith schools in mind
17:46 segfault22 Megaf: I will probably do that because the system I have in mind will be very effective - it doesn't have to check every conductor node whenever power is being sent, and it updates every time a conductor is changed or producers/consumers added, and the power transfers very quickly (it uses a globalstep instead of an abm)
17:47 TheReaperKing segfault22: You will have to keep me apprised of your work, this is all stuff that is super interesting to me and that my kids would definitely be using
17:48 segfault22 well thank you for having interest in it; I plan to get it working as soon as possible, more so now that I know people want it :D
17:48 TheReaperKing I can give you direct feedback of what they think too
17:48 agaran twoelk: but goal was?
17:48 TheReaperKing which reminds me one thing I need to do is figure out how to do moving blocks
17:48 TheReaperKing like blocks that go back and forth, for our obstacle courses
17:48 segfault22 before it was just my own hobby to work on occasionally to pass time, but now I see that it can be so much more than that
17:48 twoelk when I think about it maybe I should rename my project as it now includes greek and oriental building styles of the roman age - or thereabouts
17:48 TheReaperKing heck yeah
17:49 TheReaperKing my middle schoolers are already starting on cities that have electrical and pipe systems
17:49 segfault22 you may want to take a look at the mesecons movestone; the code behind it could be put in something else to make it work how you need it
17:49 TheReaperKing and I am making them deal with waste management
17:49 segfault22 cool
17:49 segfault22 that is so awesome
17:49 TheReaperKing so what you are saying is right on par with our interests
17:50 Megaf segfault22: https://github.com/Megaf/Elect​rical-Engineering-For-Minetest
17:50 Megaf check the issues
17:50 agaran twoelk: that sounds nice...
17:50 TheReaperKing I was trying to get the luacontroller to work but so far only have been able to print to the console
17:50 TheReaperKing though I only tried the clock
17:50 twoelk agaran: https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=12&amp;t=12680 that started it, scroll down for how it grew
17:50 agaran well on Megaf's servers there is lot of mese stuff wroking
17:51 TheReaperKing this is awesome Megaf, cloning
17:51 Megaf TheReaperKing: there's no code at all yet
17:51 resident cloned
17:51 Megaf ok
17:51 TheReaperKing at least I can keep up to date though
17:51 Megaf no put some code and PR
17:51 Megaf xP
17:51 Megaf s/no/now
17:51 TheReaperKing I have it setup in linux that I hit umg and it updates all my MT gits
17:51 TheReaperKing and then pops up a log for what was changed
17:52 segfault22 thank you for the feedback; I will get to work and see what I can come up with. Although that power system mod I want to make only uses a single-conductor (resonance) I believe it can work with the electricity-style implementation as well
17:53 TheReaperKing twoelk: that map looks fantastic
17:53 segfault22 the power transfer concept is applicable even to 3-phase AC
17:53 TheReaperKing yeah segfault22 maybe you and Megaf could work together
17:53 TheReaperKing sounds like you have similar ideas
17:54 twoelk TheReaperKing: mostly just well chosen foto points
17:55 TheReaperKing twoelk: would it be possible to put it on github so I can subscribe to your changes?
17:55 Megaf there was another guy making almost the same thing
17:55 Megaf wasnt it you agaran ?
17:55 resident don't you have to be a contributor to change anything
17:55 agaran Megaf: not 'same' different goal a bit...
17:55 Megaf resident: you can always fork, change and then make a pull request
17:55 TheReaperKing btw quick question, are any of you linux users?
17:56 resident ye
17:56 segfault22 I use linux :D
17:56 Megaf TheReaperKing: most of ys
17:56 Megaf us*
17:56 Megaf Debian 7 here
17:56 resident arch
17:56 segfault22 linux OSes are my favorite because I like to customize everything
17:56 TheReaperKing with the command line, how do I properly commit and push
17:56 Megaf TheReaperKing: flickr.com/eumegaf you can see my desktops there
17:56 Megaf or flickt.com/megaf
17:56 Megaf something like that
17:56 resident git commit and then git push
17:57 TheReaperKing I have just started learning Linux again, after not having used it for about 10 years
17:57 Megaf resident: to make pull request to the repo you cloned from I only know how to do from teh web interface
17:57 TheReaperKing Also as of last week I got permission to put it on the computer lab computers
17:57 segfault22 That's awesome!
17:57 basxto TheReaperKing: git help
17:57 TheReaperKing okay thanks
17:57 Megaf resident: to update in you repo things you changed locally you can do a git commit -a -m "message of changes" and git push
17:57 TheReaperKing I know I can find the commands, but I don't want to screw it up
17:57 TheReaperKing though I guess that's how I learn
17:58 TheReaperKing do you all use any guis that you like?
17:58 Megaf TheReaperKing: find a text editor you like
17:58 TheReaperKing I have used git cola but I only consider it okay
17:58 twoelk I can host it for public access again sometime next week when I'm at home again. At the moment it's in a state of rearangement to a different street grid system to intigrate some other reconstructions I made on other maps
17:58 segfault22 If more people start having Linux available in places like school, it will spread knowledge of the system and especially the fact that it is free software, which everyone wants
17:58 Megaf TheReaperKing: I like nano because is simple
17:58 Megaf and easy
17:58 TheReaperKing I have tried geeny and notepadqq
17:58 TheReaperKing does nano have tabs?
17:58 Megaf TheReaperKing: and I like GNOME 3 for a straight forward desktop experience. Where you use it like windows, without thinking much
17:59 TheReaperKing or is nano for git
17:59 Megaf LXDE/XFCE/Mate for low resources use
17:59 TheReaperKing we'll be using Lubuntu
17:59 segfault22 nobody likes to pay for windows, even "rich people" who can "throw money" at whatever...
17:59 Megaf TheReaperKing: nano is for console
17:59 TheReaperKing they are very old crappy laptops
17:59 segfault22 I use GEdit because it can highlight my Lua syntax :D
17:59 TheReaperKing most are Dell 2120s
18:00 segfault22 if your systems are low-power, you may be interested in editions of linux OSes like NanoLinux
18:00 TheReaperKing the school refuses to buy new computers
18:00 TheReaperKing which annoys me because I can get really good ones for $25
18:00 basxto TheReaperKing: tmux
18:00 basxto ehrm tmux+nano is tab-like
18:00 TheReaperKing dual core 3 ghz 4-8 gigs of ram with a monitor for $25 each
18:01 TheReaperKing but nope
18:01 segfault22 I have tried running LUbuntu on some dell laptops I have, but it feels just about as slow as Linux Mint (what it had before) so I moved back to it
18:02 TheReaperKing and thank you for these application suggestions
18:02 segfault22 you're welcome :D
18:02 TheReaperKing Lubuntu is what I installed on this PC for learning purposes so probably what we'd stick with
18:02 basxto TheReaperKing: netbeans and eclipse integrated git, I think, there is also “git gui”
18:03 segfault22 I'm glad that you're spreading Linux free-software to the world; it has been pretty much devoid of this for too long
18:03 TheReaperKing I love using the command line for cloning and pulling but for commiting I think command line is scary haha
18:03 TheReaperKing It's crazy the kids are actually excited about it
18:03 Markow joined #minetest
18:03 TheReaperKing I already put it on two of the comps before I got permission and the kids are amazed by the speed
18:03 TheReaperKing and also the server machine originally had vista
18:04 resident you teach your kids about github?
18:04 TheReaperKing and I put xubuntu on it and they've really noticed the difference
18:04 basxto it’s not pretty scary, git is very talkactive
18:04 basxto it also comes with an „did you mean … ?“ feature
18:04 segfault22 eclipse is a must-have for writing code in Lua and C++, both which Minetest is made of. I use it for making my mods
18:04 TheReaperKing and I've been sure to relay that on vista we were hitting 100% CPU quite often
18:04 segfault22 Vista is horrible
18:04 TheReaperKing but on xubuntu I can run two servers, one being the NYC map, and even jump on as a client on the same PC and it still doesn't hit 100%
18:05 segfault22 that's awesome
18:05 TheReaperKing resident: I haven't taught them about github yet
18:05 TheReaperKing there are all sorts of privacy issues with them being kids
18:05 segfault22 I'm glad you're bringing this to more people
18:05 basxto TheReaperKing: you don’t need to, you can use git without github
18:05 TheReaperKing so we might do a private gitlabs repo
18:05 basxto you can pull from other computers via ssh
18:06 TheReaperKing I need to learn ssh to modify their comps too remotely
18:06 TheReaperKing aka I'd love to have all the comps update at once and such
18:06 basxto there is nothing to learn just “ssh hostname” and you are logged in into your usual shell
18:06 TheReaperKing how do login to their computers?
18:08 basxto you have to run 1) sshd (daemon = server) on their computer 2) type “ssh user@ipaddress” on your side … enter the password or use a key (you have to do some setup stuff for the latter)
18:08 Grandolf joined #minetest
18:09 basxto and you are in
18:09 TheReaperKing wow that's awesome
18:09 halt_ joined #minetest
18:10 basxto you can also define hosts at ~/.ssh/config
18:10 IhrFussel joined #minetest
18:10 basxto then you just type “ssh computer1” and ip address, username and port is defined in config
18:11 TheReaperKing that's so cool
18:11 TheReaperKing if any of them cause problems "shutdown -h now" haha
18:12 basxto https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH/OpenSSH/Keys explaines how to set up your keys
18:12 basxto or just cut the internet ;)
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18:14 agaran IhrFussel: Good evening
18:15 IhrFussel agaran, I measured now the CPU% of the Server thread over time (syntax is script run time in secs, %CPU, %MEM, TIME+, Thread name) ... I only grep for 30+% usage http://pastebin.com/Vqd4JaKk
18:15 basxto TheReaperKing: http://www.tuxradar.com/answers/131 with that you could block their internet … or write a script that reactivates it after 10min or something
18:15 IhrFussel Good evening =)
18:16 agaran IhrFussel: so it is something inside Server thread..
18:18 TheReaperKing Thanks for all this great info, I'm going to save it to a document
18:19 IhrFussel agaran, yep and it's VERY inconsistent too...sometimes it spikes 2 x within 100 seconds, other times it's low for much longer
18:19 agaran IhrFussel: Indeed, like some irregularly happening tasks caused by player actions not periodic events
18:20 IhrFussel I'll grep for 20+% maybe that one is more consistent
18:22 lumidify joined #minetest
18:22 IhrFussel agaran, same syntax http://pastebin.com/UYaz3igX
18:23 texmex joined #minetest
18:29 agaran IhrFussel: less gaps, often 200/400 s spaced peaks but still does not look like predictable
18:29 agaran so nobody knows/heard about pos_to_hexstring or like in minetest?
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18:34 IhrFussel agaran, yup...at line 31 the server crashed (but that was cause of a stupid action by one of my moderators)
18:36 IhrFussel So it's very likely some content trigger in the world and when a player loads it the server lags?
18:38 agaran IhrFussel: Hmm, yes, but it may be not bad idea to find way to dig deeper and find what actually itis
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18:40 IhrFussel agaran, for that I'd need to find a way to save the actual server time with each line instead of the script seconds... my code is this "top -b -d 1 -H | grep --line-buffered -Eo "[0-9]{1,},[0-9]{1,}.{1,}Server" > cpu.txt"
18:42 IhrFussel I then could compare the high spikes with log times of debug.txt
18:42 agrecascino joined #minetest
18:42 agaran I would consider making mod that periodically sends some fixed string to log, to which logging system reacts and makes top/grep combo..
18:45 Megaf I just applied for jobs at Google and Dropbox, wish me luck
18:46 * Calinou wishes luck to Megaf
18:46 Megaf I would apply for twitter if they could keep their links working https://careers.twitter.com/en/work​-for-twitter/it-support-engineer-i-​dublin-6-month-contract-dublin.html
18:46 agaran Megaf: best luck :)
18:47 Megaf All I want is a job with Linux in Dublin in a company that will sponsor me for a work permit
18:47 Megaf Am I asking too much?
18:48 agaran dunno..
18:48 Megaf I'd ask my ex back, but that I know is too much indeed
18:53 segfault22 Oh thats too bad, Linux Mint has that nasty SystemD program in it. Time to dump it for good!
18:54 Calinou ask your systemd back
18:56 segfault22 ?
18:57 paramat joined #minetest
18:58 segfault22 http://without-systemd.org/wiki/in​dex.php/Arguments_against_systemd
19:00 segfault22 I was just going to revert to upstart-sysv but they removed the package (!!!)
19:00 segfault22 I am convinced it is a backdoor system, or at least spyware
19:02 paramat heat and humidity are 2D noises. biomes are mainly 2D. however, for each value of y biome at point is decided by a heat/humidity voronoi diagram containing biome points, which biomes points are included in the voronoi diagram depends on the biome min/max y limits. so yes somewhat 3D in a clever way that reduces complexity < APNG
19:02 segfault22 awesome :D
19:04 segfault22 oh and APNG wants more "furries" in minetest - we can NOT let this happen. If it does, consider minetest dead because it with both 1. ruin our public image with them and their "yiffing" crap, roleplay crap and comic-pr0n, and 2. drive away everyone who understands how disgusting they are
19:04 paramat so it's possible to define a different set of biomes for each stacked realm
19:04 segfault22 Awesome!
19:05 APNG segfault22, you're a stupid useless rude piece of excrement
19:05 segfault22 Thank you for providing this insight. I always wanted D biomes in minecraft but learned it isn't possible
19:05 segfault22 APNG get lost
19:05 segfault22 I just /ignore
19:05 APNG we need more furries
19:05 APNG or rather
19:06 APNG life sized plushies
19:06 sfan5 we need more people who shut up
19:06 agaran sfan5: you don't know anything that can take pos vector and spit nice hex string?
19:07 segfault22 If I EVER see that "furries" crap on the minetest forum, I will fork the latest version, make a separate project and make sure that it isn't allowed there, so that people who don't want to be part of that crap can have a place to seek refuge and live and commerce like they did before
19:07 APNG hmm
19:07 APNG correction
19:07 sfan5 agaran: why would you want to do that
19:07 APNG we need to add otherkin to minetest
19:07 segfault22 and trust me, there will be just about everyone to move there, if we let this happen. So don't.
19:07 APNG or, custom, player-defined player models
19:07 APNG and unlockable capabilities
19:07 APNG (e.g. items you find in dungeons that let you fly and stuff)
19:08 agaran sfan5: more compact, and then such string can be key in array, then I can do if not things["DEADBEEF"] then to check if given position was defined in things table.. also likely more mem efficient than storing pos vectors..
19:08 sfan5 i just do pos.x .. "_" .. pos.y .. "_" .. pos.z if i need that
19:09 agaran well I wanted it hex.. maybe I am odd
19:09 IhrFussel agaran, I accomplished the task via running tail -F file | while read line; do echo "$(date +%T) $line" >> 2ndfile.txt; done
19:10 segfault22 hex is nice
19:10 segfault22 who thinks SystemD is a malware?
19:10 agaran IhrFussel: pastebin ? (priv if you wish)
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19:11 agrecascino joined #minetest
19:11 segfault22 oh and, why can;t we find Upstart in the package managers any more? I wanted to remove SystemD but I can't without installing Upstart
19:11 segfault22 does anyone know what should be done?
19:12 IhrFussel Oh it needs to run again for a few hours before I can compare the spikes with debug.txt file times
19:12 segfault22 sfan5 thank you for making that file hosting service; I noticed a few people are still using it for some mods I made that I don't work on any more
19:13 agaran IhrFussel: sure, just drop me info if you get more data..
19:14 APNG <APNG> can we get player-defined player models?
19:14 APNG <APNG> and unlockable flight/etc capabilities, through dungeon items?
19:14 APNG <APNG> mostly because that'd be furry-friendly
19:14 APNG <APNG> and furries are one of the most welcoming communities, so we wouldn't have so many assholes in our community
19:14 APNG accidentally sent that to the wrong channel >.<
19:14 twoelk LOL segfault22, again I totally disagree, I may be no fan of furries but I think minetest should make everything possible, be it furries, spacesuits or ninnja knights riding on crimson carpets. The more diversity the better
19:15 sfan5 segfault22: which one?
19:15 segfault22 twoelek, no offense but do you even know what the furries are up to? Sure we need diversity and diversity is good, but not this kind
19:15 Jordach APNG, i've had player defined models in BFD for a while now
19:15 segfault22 sfan5, I'm not sure
19:16 Jordach segfault22, you mean
19:16 Jordach http://sfan5.duckdns.org/upload/
19:16 sfan5 no that is no longer active
19:16 segfault22 yes, that one
19:16 segfault22 the files are still there though
19:16 segfault22 I used it a long time ago, and even though it isnt open for new uploads any more - thank you for making it, it was needed a while back and it served well
19:17 APNG segfault22, furries are up to welcoming everyone regardless of fetish, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, gender expression, species identity, neurotype, race, religion, <insert other bullshit terms made up by cis white neurotypical christian male humans>
19:17 segfault22 I us github now though
19:17 APNG uh, right, forgot the "vanilla" label
19:17 APNG segfault22, in other words furries are much nicer than you
19:17 * twoelk once played on a server taken over by some vampire roleplaying clan
19:18 Megaf Jordach: what cars mod is that?
19:18 twoelk they had interesting building ideas
19:18 segfault22 would you happen to have a copy of 0gb_us land claim mod (original) somewhere? its not at that upload service, and the site for 0gb.us is gone forever and with it the links to all the files :/
19:18 Megaf Jordach: sfan5: this mod http://sfan5.duckdns.org/uploa​d/data/screenshot_5593146.png
19:20 Megaf nevermind
19:21 IhrFussel I think not allowing a certain user group is discrimination...either you allow EVERYONE or no one IMO
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19:22 IhrFussel As long as the player follows my server rules i really DONT care about their race, age, location or interests...and it shouldn't be my business
19:22 Fixer IhrFussel: you will end up with nazi server with this attitude ^%)
19:23 Fixer i care about age, because... if players can't even type /y to kick a spammer, ... fuck them, get off my lawn
19:24 IhrFussel Fixer, I see you are not a very tolerant person
19:24 segfault22 There are a lot of things "furries" do that would break many server rules; internet-dating and roleplay-based internet "dating" so-t-speak are integrated as a fundamental part of their ideology, and dating is banned on most servers that I know of...
19:24 Fixer i'm very intolerant to people who can't even play the damn game %)
19:25 Calinou <APNG> <APNG> can we get player-defined player models?
19:25 Calinou yes
19:25 Calinou there was a My Little Pony-themed server once
19:25 IhrFussel Dating is NOT banned on my server and I personally think any server that bans such things is dictating players what to do
19:25 Calinou players could choose their skin, which had an impact on their pony type, and thus physics
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19:26 Fixer IhrFussel: that depends on admins, if you are fine with, i'm ok with that
19:26 segfault22 Also, the pr0n is probably not allowed on your server or most that I know of. And they tend to act violently to others who don't support their beliefs or play into their games. So long as that is not allowed, they are kept from expressing their beliefs and that can be called "discrimination" of a type, but it is necessary
19:26 APNG asexual furries exist, useless dumbfuck
19:27 Fixer Calinou: and I'm close to finish some blocks for CC-SA-BY MLP texture pack converted from minecraft
19:27 Calinou can you, like, keep it SFW or something
19:27 Fixer but this damn procrastination
19:27 Calinou and not insult eachother :P
19:27 APNG Calinou, they have me on /ignore, the insults are useless
19:28 APNG idk why I'm even trying tbh .-.
19:28 Fixer i associate furries with two things... 1) firefox 2) xxxn
19:28 IhrFussel IMO the server admin shouldn't tell players what to do in any way outside of "follow the server rules" ... and if the admin feels like he/she needs to add a "no dating rule/age restriction" then I would never play on such a server
19:29 segfault22 I want minetest to be SFW.
19:29 Calinou you can't legally force it to, segfault22 :P
19:29 Fixer IhrFussel: it is just some people are annoyed by constant "mod", "dad", "slave", "gimemememe wooooood", gamemode 1, "how to play"
19:29 segfault22 safe-for-work, safe-for-family, et cetera
19:29 Fixer "mom"
19:29 Calinou haha "gamemode 1"
19:29 Fixer gamemode 1 is my favourite
19:29 segfault22 we can;t force it, of course, but the forums are not uncensored because there's children who come there regulaarly.
19:30 agrecascino_ joined #minetest
19:30 IhrFussel Fixer, yeah maybe it is annoying to some...but I think it's pretty WEIRD to read PM logs and ban players for things they sent privately to each other for example (like cybers**)
19:30 Fixer also with those chinese players we need to consider some server rules in chinese for real
19:30 paramat APNG see MirceaKitsunes 'creatures' mod in the forum, that's somewhat furry
19:30 segfault22 As long as we keep the "nasty part" off the main website, off the forum and out of the main chat channels, it will be fine. That's all
19:30 Fixer btw
19:31 APNG I associate furries with breakfast
19:31 paramat players able to change form etc
19:31 Fixer i love those talks about suicide, and I get pregnant in 16, have two kids now // NOT JOKING, that was real conversations I seen
19:31 Fixer there are some epic trolls
19:32 APNG can we get end-to-end encrypted PMs?
19:32 agaran minetest would benefit a lot from more complex chat permitting to /ignore some people..
19:32 segfault22 don't get me wrong, I don't think we should discriminate against beliefs, unless those beliefs require spreading "the nasty part" to the forum, chat, and main website. You know what "the nasty part" is
19:32 agaran APNG: that would be awesome too
19:32 Calinou APNG: any nicely-licensed, lightweight libraries for that? I doubt it
19:32 APNG Calinou, OTR
19:32 Calinou lol
19:32 Calinou no
19:32 Calinou something simple to use
19:32 Calinou and easy to integrate in existing software
19:32 APNG Calinou, DCC
19:32 Calinou lol, no, again
19:33 Fixer too bad they don't come in -dev and yell "FIX UPDATELIGHTNING OR I WILL JUMP OF THIS ROOF NOW"
19:33 Calinou anyway, this won't be implemented by Minetest devs
19:33 segfault22 and, for example, people who believe they must force their beliefs on others or kill them (minetest equivalent: DDoS/hack server, takedown, trace IP and hit physical location, etc.) - we wouldn't allow people to condone this on the forums, right?
19:33 APNG Calinou, it needs client support
19:33 Calinou and may not even be accepted in Minetest if someone contributes it - it's a game
19:33 APNG <Fixer> i love those talks about suicide, and I get pregnant in 16, have two kids now // NOT JOKING, that was real conversations I seen
19:33 APNG this ^ is why we need E2E
19:34 IhrFussel I'm THANKFUL that the German laws forbids admins to read PMs if there is no particular "danger to the service"
19:34 agrecascino joined #minetest
19:34 Calinou people should recognize that Minetest doesn't offer private messaging but rather direct messaging
19:34 Calinou (like Twitter)
19:34 paramat APNG https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=11&amp;t=9240 has fox player models etc
19:34 Fixer no, that was public chat, not pm %)
19:34 segfault22 I didn't know about that German law, it's very useful actually
19:34 Fixer oh wait
19:34 Fixer I received "do you want to see my boobs" or smth not long ago in pm
19:34 Fixer from random person
19:35 segfault22 You woudn't want this going on at the minetest forums or in peoples' servers where the owner clearly states this is not allowed, right?
19:35 IhrFussel Yes the German law sees PMs as "digital letters" so the same law applies as for opening/reading letters of strangers without permission
19:35 segfault22 Awesome
19:36 segfault22 I am considering making an encrypted PM system just to complicate the ability of owners to look at their players' personal messages
19:36 Calinou implementing your own crypto is risky
19:36 segfault22 like all anonymity/privacy software, there will be abusers, but the benefits are far worth more than preventing the drawbacks by not making it
19:37 segfault22 okay it won't be my own cryptography algorithm, it will be a good one thats widely used, upped to like 4096-bits
19:37 segfault22 or even 65536
19:37 Calinou what about speed? remember, you're doing it in Lua (presumably)
19:37 Fixer public chat should be readable
19:37 segfault22 crap, thats right...
19:37 APNG german law is stupid about nonpublic messaging
19:37 APNG I mean that nonpublic != private
19:37 segfault22 12-bit AES?
19:37 Calinou AES-128/256 could be ok
19:38 segfault22 okay, thank you for the pointer
19:38 Fixer wtf, another "gamemode 1"
19:38 IhrFussel APNG, the German laws sees "PM (Private Message)" as something private and not non-public
19:38 Fixer oh wait
19:38 Fixer "gamemode 0" now
19:38 agaran you need to take into account that some countries forbid to use crypto..
19:38 ki`zune use ROT26
19:38 Fixer where are they coming from?
19:38 Calinou agaran: yes, you need to put a disclaimer when distributing your mod
19:38 agaran ki`zune: lol
19:38 segfault22 as long as its encrypted, it doesnt matter if it can be cracked easily with h4xx0r-w4r3 off the darknet - it's illegal in Germany for the server owner/admins to read it
19:38 agaran Calinou: I know..
19:39 segfault22 some countries forbid cryptography? Then they also forbid online banking and are probably too third-world to have a reliable internet, so we need not worry about them. We can put a disclaimer "don't use this if encryption is banned in your country" or something
19:40 ki`zune segfault22: it’s also not allowed to use h4xx0r-w4r3
19:40 Fixer joined #minetest
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19:40 APNG IhrFussel, so german law bans IRC because literally all IRC messages are PRIVMSGs
19:40 APNG cool
19:40 APNG go sue freenode
19:40 segfault22 right, but some people will do it anyways to try to look at encrypted messages and stuff, even though it is illegal. We just need to make the law apply more/better and have it illegal to try to look at it, not impossible
19:41 segfault22 kali linux has some neat tools that aren't "too darknet" to be illegal and all of that "fun stuff"
19:41 IhrFussel APNG, uh no? I don't think you understand the difference between "messages that the sender KNOWS will be public and visible to everyone in theory" and "messages that are directed to ONE person and should not be accessed by ANYONE ELSE"
19:41 fusion44 joined #minetest
19:43 segfault22 It isn't necessary that we ban furries altogether everywhere, just that we keep the "nasty part" out of our important community resources. I was thinking about someday hosting a (different from the other one I'm gonna make) uncensored server where nobody cares about anything
19:44 APNG IhrFussel, the command is called "private message"
19:44 IhrFussel A chat room != PM ... Private Message implies that the message has exactly one sender and mostly 1 receiver...the contents of the message shall only be accessed by anyone the sender specified just like with real letters
19:45 APNG IhrFussel, uh ok I know how to solve that problem
19:45 APNG call it "direct dataing"
19:45 APNG the data is sent directly to the specified person
19:45 APNG no mention of message, only data
19:45 Calinou APNG: not possible without port forwarding in most cases
19:45 APNG its meaning is unspecified
19:45 Calinou UDP hole punching is pretty much original research in open source at this point
19:45 Calinou and UPnP is not enabled by everyone, some people don't trust it
19:45 APNG Calinou, "direct dataing" has no legal issues
19:46 Calinou I was talking about technical issues
19:46 APNG so you can send direct data through the server
19:46 APNG and it can be freely visible to the admins and stuff
19:48 IhrFussel The German law says "if it's OBVIOUS that the function/command implies that the messages are private then it counts as PM and must not be accessed by the admin or other unspecified users"
19:49 * ki`zune does not have UPnP enabled
19:49 IhrFussel So to make that work you'd have to tell every user that the messages won't be private...and then the function will not be used anymore by most players
19:50 ki`zune integrate gpg into minetest
19:50 IhrFussel Cause players expect a PM function not a "send stuff to another player but let the admin access it"
19:51 APNG IhrFussel, german law is half good, half stupid; I'm glad you can't sue servers that aren't based on germany
19:52 IhrFussel I recently had to explain to some players that i THEORETICALLY have access to their PMs but my laws don't allow me to read them (except in extreme danger situations)
19:52 APNG why not pipe server logs to the internet?
19:52 ki`zune “Are you sure you want to send this? Omniscient admin can read this. kk | oh noes”
19:53 APNG "everything that happens in chat gets publicly logged. everything."
19:53 Fixer APNG: great idea, add to this bot based on markow chains => hilarity
19:53 IhrFussel APNG, yes that wording could work, but will players use the PM function when they read that? I doubt it
19:53 APNG IhrFussel, trust me they will
19:54 ki`zune people are surprisingly lazy
19:54 Calinou <ki`zune> integrate gpg into minetest
19:55 Calinou attempted once, never tried again
19:55 Calinou for good reason
19:55 ki`zune :D
19:55 APNG just add client mods
19:55 APNG OTR will just come naturally
19:55 Calinou I doubt the average Minetest player is smart enough to use it
19:55 Calinou consider that 80% of Minetest's userbase is mobile client kids…
19:56 APNG also I think I heard somewhere that german law doesn't let you share PMs/letters/whatever you receive
19:56 ki`zune Calinou: not just the average minetest user
19:56 Fixer Calinou: average Minetest player can't play minetest %)
19:57 ki`zune APNG: you mean > This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.
19:58 APNG ki`zune, no I mean if someone sends you an email, directed at you
19:58 APNG and you make it public
19:58 APNG it's illegal in germany
19:58 Calinou should put that in a signature
19:58 APNG even if your email signature literally states "Disclaimer: these emails may be made public at any given time, with or without reason. If you don't agree with this, DO NOT REPLY. "
19:58 ki`zune “this e-mail had cybersex”
20:00 sfan5 APNG: oh you've studied german law?
20:00 APNG sfan5, no
20:00 APNG I only heard about it
20:00 APNG I'm not from germany tho so I can happily make all my emails public ^^
20:00 ki`zune APNG: de.wikipedia says no
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20:01 agaran IhrFussel: what is that white shield hud bar?
20:02 IhrFussel agaran, armor
20:02 segfault22 Sorry I left.. I did not intend to. Our power-supply cut out due to grid problems aggravated by a storm
20:02 agaran I don't change armor and it varies on its own..?
20:03 IhrFussel agaran, the armor has a durability you can see it in the armor screen of the inventory
20:03 agaran ah, got it
20:04 ki`zune APNG: it can be illegal, especially when it violates personality rights and copyright law (everything that qualifies for copyright, is copyrighted)
20:05 APNG ki`zune, technically the disclaimer solves the copyright issues
20:08 Calinou !server Calinou
20:08 MinetestBot Calinou: Calinou [Europe/Paris] (survival - minimal mods) | hugo.pro:30002 | Clients: 6/32, 11/21 | Version: 0.4.14-dev / minetest | Ping: 10ms
20:09 IhrFussel Yep acording to German law one cannot simply say "I don't want copyright on this" and make it freely available for anyone else...the copyright holder HAS TO apply a license to each work
20:10 Calinou IhrFussel: CC0 is a public domain dedication that should be valid in Germany
20:10 red-001 joined #minetest
20:11 IhrFussel Calinou, yes any "general accepted license" is fine, i was just stating that "I don't want to copyright my work" alone won't be enough in Germany
20:11 est31 joined #minetest
20:13 IhrFussel Because no one can actually lose their copyright in Germany...they can only allow others to use it but not lose the copyright of the work
20:13 Calinou yes, same in France
20:15 IhrFussel Same with cannibalism here (weird example xD): Even if someone WANTS to be eaten by someone else and signs a contract it's not allowed cause a person cannot lose their human rights in any way
20:16 agaran that sounded as way to get people do canibalism-mod for MT..
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20:22 IhrFussel agaran, lol
20:25 segfault22 can we register our copyright with the copyright office, make them inscribe it on slabs of bacon, and send for a new copy ever day, so we can eat our copyrights instead of each-other? maybe its not as sustainable as farming plants,...
20:26 segfault22 is there a copyright office equipped with a bacon-slab-maker and bacon-inscribing tool in the USA?
20:27 red-001 the answer is: maybe
20:28 segfault22 is it offensive to mention bacon in the minetest-chat because muslims hate the stuff, and can't even walk where a pig has been as per their religion?
20:28 red-001 Idk
20:29 red-001 use [off] ?
20:29 segfault22 I want to make a machine that can "copy" the exact molecular and atomic form of some material to a template, and another to read said template and "print" the material from energy... so I can make as much bacon as I want, and open a copyright office that allows you to request your copyright dox inscribed in bacon if you so please
20:30 segfault22 so we don't have to kill a bunch of pigs just to make one bacon-slab for a stack of bacon-paper for the dox
20:30 red-001 makes a machine that would win multiple prizes
20:31 segfault22 energy from the ZPE field can be used to manufacture all the matter we will ever need, even massive amounts of Iridium for our high-tech starships
20:31 red-001 use's it to make bacon
20:31 segfault22 xD
20:34 segfault22 we could use ultrasound cymatics to guide atoms into the right shape to produce molecules throughout a (relative to the atom) massive field of space,... maybe that will become a useful part of the machine, if we can just make the energy -> matter component as well...
20:35 segfault22 I found some fringe science that says matter is basically energy and you can both create and destroy it by guiding energy from the zero-point field in the right shape, or something like that... but its kinda "far-out, man" so we'll just have to see...
20:35 red-001 I'm not sure if your making this up
20:36 segfault22 cymatics is very real, but currently it's only used for making pretty patterns on sand-plates... it has yet to be used in manufacturing
20:36 segfault22 basically its a standing wave in a container (or on a surface)
20:37 segfault22 they say it can even be used to induce fusion, but that requires very high ultrasound frequencies above 40MHz and of considerable intensity (not ultrasonic imaging, more like industrial chemical reactor cleaner transducer levels)
20:38 segfault22 that way we could make any heavier, rarer and expensive atoms from hydrogen or even nitrogen and other abundant elements, but it would use a whopping load of power
20:38 Megaf !server Megaf
20:38 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/20, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 8ms
20:38 T4im joined #minetest
20:39 segfault22 :/
20:39 Ronsor DANK MEMES
20:40 Ronsor Megaf: did you fork minetest?
20:40 Megaf Ronsor: yup
20:40 Megaf !server MineDigger
20:40 MinetestBot Megaf: MineDiggerTestServer | mt.megaf.info | Clients: 0/50, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.14 / MineDigger | Ping: 6ms
20:41 Megaf Ronsor: there ^
20:42 red-001 what did you change in your fork?
20:42 * ki`zune reads red-001’s lines and wants to die
20:42 Calinou joined #minetest
20:42 red-001 ?
20:42 Ronsor Megaf: ^
20:43 ki`zune „use's“
20:43 ki`zune I mean “use's”
20:43 red-001 I see
20:43 red-001 where can I find this typo?
20:44 ki`zune <red-001> use's it to make bacon
20:45 ki`zune maybe your apostrophe just shifted
20:45 ki`zune I'm not sure if your making this up
20:45 red-001 I blame it on fast typing
20:45 ki`zune forgot to copy the name
20:46 segfault22 I like bacon
20:47 ki`zune it was eatable
20:47 Ronsor welp my #tox instance timed out, #betterUSAInternet #Gfiber2016 #ScrewedCast
20:47 Ronsor and wrong channel
20:48 red-001 should I be glad I have no idea what that means?
20:48 ki`zune red-001: tox is a p2p messaging and voip
20:49 Megaf uat?
20:49 Megaf Ronsor: why hastags on IRC man?
20:49 segfault22 Nikola Tesla created many wonderful devices that can be used for peaceful purposes like true wireless electricity (not just near-field induction, but actual LONGITUDINAL em waves) and just about all of our alternating current devices,... and he created some pretty horrifying weapons too, like a gun that shoots tungsten pellets charged with immense levels of Electricity that can melt through, well anything, and the first laser (but he didn't call it
20:49 segfault22 a laser, and it was a lot better than what we have now)
20:49 ki`zune messaging = messenger
20:50 Megaf segfault22: how did he call his laser?
20:50 segfault22 I don't remember,...
20:50 red-001 Megaf to create new channels?
20:50 ki`zune Megaf: s/he obviously wants people to join those greatly named channels
20:50 red-001 I did
20:50 Megaf you can /join #Channel1,#Channel2,#Channel3
20:51 red-001 #tox is a channel
20:51 Megaf I used to use tox
20:51 red-001 all the others just have me as admin
20:51 Megaf added a bunch of people from here
20:51 Megaf then I reseted my phone or something, and lost everyone
20:51 ki`zune good job
20:51 Ronsor libtoxcore roxs, seriously i'm gonna make a tox relay for minetest when i get around to it
20:52 ki`zune I never go online in tox, because nobody is online in tox
20:52 Ronsor i am
20:52 Ronsor lol
20:52 Ronsor always
20:53 segfault22 some sites say that tesla was working with coherent light produced by illuminating ruby samples, but he didn't have the technology to make perfect rods and the like
20:53 segfault22 but hey, coherent light
20:53 ki`zune so much effort … typing “qtox” … copying password from keepassx … being not sure if I’m not correctly connected or just nobody online
20:54 ki`zune *mhm why isn’t my smartphone online
20:54 DMackey joined #minetest
20:54 segfault22 The navy and DARPA are trying to build railguns that shoot massive projectiles, and they have reached the limits of the materials they are working with - notable, the rails are ruined after just a few uses and have to be replaced. They say we will need stronger materials to make better railguns. However, this is kinda the same problem with trying to build skyscrapers - in the past the materials were not strong enough, so we had to make building sma
20:54 segfault22 ller. You know where I'm going with this...
20:55 red-001 I learned more about tesla and fringe science from this channel then from any other single source
20:55 red-001 including Wikipedia
20:56 segfault22 We can make the railguns smaller to take advantage of the materials being stronger at smaller scales (the reason we can't build a ring of steel around earth, it wouldn't be strong enough to withstand the tidal forces, but smaller rings have been made and they hold up very well)
20:57 segfault22 but you won't see this happening any time soon because the only way to power a tactical-size (carry it with two hands) railgun, is to harvest the power constantly pouring out of permanent magnets, which is secretly illegal (there's no law against it, but "they" will come stop you anyways)
20:58 segfault22 and also, railguns can't be traced to their bullets because there is no firing mechanism to put a mark on them, and no casings, and not even a gunpowder-smoke discharge
20:58 segfault22 they really don't like weapons that can't be traced back to the person who used it last
20:59 segfault22 you could make a tiny railgun, say about the size of a blender, but it wouldn't be powerful enough to actually cause significant damage unless you're just lucky
20:59 * red-001 now wants a railgun
21:00 segfault22 you can make one
21:00 red-001 or hoverboard
21:00 ki`zune I guess with throwing an actual blender, you would be more successful
21:00 Ronsor comcast keeps dropping packets
21:01 Nosrick joined #minetest
21:02 ki`zune “don’t try this at home”
21:02 segfault22 hoverboards have been possible for a while, they would use a complex array of ultrasound transducers and a compact, high-power power source to run them (ZPE field power)
21:02 segfault22 the ultrasound bounces off the ground and creates a bubble of sound waves that pushes against the board with force relative to the gravity force exerted on the board, up to some limit
21:03 segfault22 yes, don't ever try this at home, especially those Floyd Sweet VTA with conditioned magnets (if you ever find someone who discovered how to make them) because if stressed too much, the magnets can explode like hand grenades (BAD)
21:04 Nosrick agrecascino, you around?
21:05 agrecascino Nosrick, yes
21:05 Nosrick Hey, momtest has had an update to master.
21:05 Nosrick Some bug fixes, some new stuff.
21:05 Nosrick (Hopefully nothing broken)
21:05 agrecascino alright
21:05 segfault22 I have to go work on my mods some,...
21:06 Megaf I dont have any good way of using tox, since I format my stuff way too often
21:06 ki`zune I never do
21:07 ki`zune the OS on my laptop is older than my laptop
21:08 red-001 momtest?
21:10 ki`zune Megaf: backup ~/.config/tox
21:11 Nosrick red-001, my mod, based on Master of Magic, a 1993 video game.
21:12 ki`zune yourmomtest
21:22 Tmanyo joined #minetest
21:22 rubenwardy :-1: to encrypted PMs
21:22 rubenwardy server owners need to be able to investigate claims of harrassment over pm
21:23 red-001 how would you even do that?
21:24 red-001 chatcommands are handled by the  server
21:25 ki`zune well you could transmit an encrypted message to the server
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21:31 rubenwardy red-001, exactly. APNG is requested end-to-end PMs on servers
21:32 APNG rubenwardy, it's called "use your logs"
21:32 APNG meh not in the mood for arguing
21:32 rubenwardy APNG, with end to end encryption you can't use your logs on the client
21:33 rubenwardy *to read PMs
21:33 Megaf anyone have any idea how to manage your circles in Google+?
21:33 APNG rubenwardy, with end to end encryption the server logs don't contain the messages
21:33 APNG but client logs do
21:33 Megaf maybe in people
21:34 Megaf nope
21:34 rubenwardy as an admin, I would want to be able to read the PMs of users if someone reports harassment, so I can ban if necessary
21:34 betterthanyou710 joined #minetest
21:34 red-001 APNG not if you don't log it
21:34 APNG red-001, then you're fucked
21:34 rubenwardy if this were not possible, I'd disable PMs on my server
21:34 APNG your fault for not logging
21:35 Nollby YOU SHALL NOT TOUCH HAIRY POOTER.
21:35 Fixer wat?
21:35 APNG rubenwardy, I doubt that'd help
21:35 red-001 anyway why would I want to give my logs to an admin if I would get banned for it
21:35 Nosrick i muss hairy pooter
21:35 Nollby Pass, not touch
21:35 APNG red-001, implying you're the only one who can log >.>
21:36 red-001 implying you can't tamper with logs
21:36 APNG red-001, deal with it >.>
21:36 APNG left #minetest
21:37 red-001 why would you want encryption for minetest anyway?
21:37 betterthanyou710 joined #minetest
21:37 rubenwardy it's a silly request
21:37 red-001 if you can tamper with logs they are no better then just flipping a coin to decide how is right
21:38 rubenwardy I get the feeling that APNG is a troll
21:38 Ronsor joined #minetest
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21:43 segfault22 you too?
21:44 segfault22 "he's not spiderpig any more, he's harry plopper"
21:45 Nollby Spiderpig...spiderpig...
21:46 red-001 normalpig...normalpig
21:46 Nollby red-001: You don't get the reference...
21:46 segfault22 does whatever spider-pig-does
21:46 red-001 I do
21:47 segfault22 can-he-swing, from-a-web?
21:47 red-001 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=714-Ioa4XQw
21:47 segfault22 no-he-can't 'cause he's-a-pig
21:47 segfault22 (I may have got the "'cause" wrong, there may supposed to be an empty space there...)
21:48 ElectronLibre Is there anywhere a script that could help me export the sqlite database of a minetest map into a postgresql server's database? I've tried many things already but they have all failed
21:49 red-001 iirc there is a setting that does that.
21:50 ElectronLibre I hope it's documented..
21:50 ElectronLibre Oh, idiot me
21:50 Ronsor meh anyone feel like playing minetest with me?
21:50 ElectronLibre There's "minetestserver --migrate"
21:51 segfault22 so postgresql is now a supported database system?
21:51 red-001 yes
21:52 ElectronLibre Apparently so
21:53 ElectronLibre And I'm experimenting with database servers, I'm sick of having heavy map files taking space on my laptop so I just send everything to a remote server
21:53 Ronsor lol
21:53 Ronsor map files arent  that bad
21:53 Ronsor unless you have 100s of them
21:53 Ronsor 22M     /mt1/vanilla/map.sqlite
21:53 ElectronLibre Well, when automatic generation scripts create gigabytes of map files in a world, it starts to be a bit big
21:53 Ronsor oh
21:53 Ronsor that's bad
21:54 segfault22 I'm glad that its supported
21:54 ElectronLibre The first map I'm exporting is 210M worth of data. Not that much compared to some of MFF's maps
21:54 ElectronLibre And I have to reboot my laptop because of playback issues.. well I'll let that run during the night
21:55 ElectronLibre Thanks for the answers that ultimately didn't help but made me find a solution.
22:03 Grandolf joined #minetest
22:07 Ronsor still anyone want to play minetest with me
22:08 twoelk left #minetest
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22:42 Fixer i think you are overcomplicating :trollface:
22:53 halt_ joined #minetest
23:00 betterthanyou710 left #minetest
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23:37 MinetestBot [git] pinkysnowman -> minetest/minetest_game: Default: Eliminate redundant 'get modpath' calls 5e9e3f7 https://git.io/v6jJZ (2016-08-29T00:31:18+01:00)
23:37 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Default, stairs, doors: Vary wood flammable and choppy group values 9952567 https://git.io/v6jJn (2016-08-29T00:24:30+01:00)
23:42 i- hi, I'm building the server and I get this http://paste.debian.net/plain_h/f5d58349
23:42 i- wait, 404
23:42 rubenwardy The requested URL /plain_h/f5d58349 was not found on this server.
23:42 i- hi, I'm building the server and I get this http://paste.debian.net/plainh/f5d58349
23:42 i- there
23:44 rubenwardy try: make clean and then build again?
23:44 rubenwardy Also, what OS
23:47 i- Debian 8.5 minimal
23:48 i- make clean'd, trying again now
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