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IRC log for #minetest, 2016-07-31

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 agrecascino JavaRefriedBeanFactoryBean
00:00 betterthanyou710 great :)
00:02 nolsen Hijiri: Do you notice a loading time increase with HTTP download?
00:02 nolsen er, HTTPS
00:02 Hijiri I don't know, there may be caching
00:02 Hijiri I have had very short load times the last couple of joins
00:04 Fixer i somewhat dislike java programs because of four things: 1) windows does not bundle jre 2) slow startup 3) somewhat big mem usage 4) crappy UI (not always)
00:05 Fixer if only it was included like .net
00:06 Fixer iirc it was included in win98 or 2000
00:08 Fixer VanessaE: but what the problem if it was scripted? /dreambuilder
00:08 VanessaE Fixer: scripting only goes just so far :P
00:09 VanessaE eventually I ran into problems merging in upstream mt_game changes.
00:09 VanessaE (and I did those by hand()
00:09 betterthanyou710 VanessaE: have you ever thought about creating a faction or prison server?
00:09 VanessaE no.
00:09 betterthanyou710 awwww
00:09 Fixer VanessaE: you alter minetest_game?
00:09 betterthanyou710 ive been asking all major server owners and none of them have
00:10 VanessaE Fixer: I used to as part of dreambuilder when it was a subgame.  now, I don't./
00:10 betterthanyou710 cant wait till one does
00:10 VanessaE I run entirely vanilla minetest_game, any changes I need to make to it I do with a mod
00:11 Fixer VanessaE: i think it is possible to make changes you need to game itself ones, make diffs and just patch automatically
00:11 VanessaE for a while I was doing that.
00:12 VanessaE but mt_game development was just moving too fast.
00:12 VanessaE I couldn't keep up anymore, so went back to modpack format.
00:13 Fixer VanessaE: it is just modpack support is so damn shitty
00:17 Fixer hmm, so you have modified: bones, give initial stuff, tnt
00:17 VanessaE yep
00:17 VanessaE and a few lower-level changes that could be done with a mod
00:18 VanessaE (see dreambuilder_mp_extras)
00:20 Fixer I still like it as subgame, I don't see much merge conflicts here, "give initial stuff" is nothing %)
00:20 Fixer tnt and bones can be disabled in config now iirc
00:21 Fixer subgame config
00:21 Fixer anyway i go sleep have fun
00:21 VanessaE I'll pass :P
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00:33 nolsen Hijiri: Had to restart, when I was connecting, the client terminal was being spammed with 404 errors
00:34 nolsen Yep, it is
00:34 nolsen 2016-07-30 19:33:58: ERROR[CurlFetch]: https://nolsen.xyz/minetest​/media/blox_whitecobble.png not found (HTTP response code said error) (response code 404)
00:34 Hijiri let me try with terminal
00:34 nolsen I see why
00:34 nolsen Because in /media, it is nothing but files
00:34 nolsen with long names
00:34 nolsen like hashes
00:35 Hijiri connection to your media server is timing out apparently
00:35 nolsen rw-rw-r-- 1 minetest minetest  975 Jul 30 20:22 85402482ea353ed7efe62ef172cc8e889725479e
00:35 nolsen lol
00:35 Hijiri but I'm in now
00:35 nolsen Hijiri: Probably because it used fallback
00:35 nolsen which is default download
00:38 nolsen I guess https://gist.github.com/sfan5/6351560 is borked?
00:47 nolsen Hijiri: I'm restarting the server again, sorry.
00:47 nolsen Need to disable https
00:47 nolsen er
00:47 nolsen the http media server
00:47 nolsen because the script is broken
00:47 nolsen This will probably be the last restart today
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01:43 nolsen !mod music
01:43 MinetestBot nolsen: Music player [music_player] by Rui - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13841
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02:45 AntumDeluge Hello, having an issue that I haven't been able to resolve on my own. My Minetest server used to output a "debug.txt" file but does not anymore. Not sure why. I have been add & removing mods, but can't think of anything else that I have done to effect it.
02:46 AntumDeluge Version: Minetest 0.4.14 (Linux), Build info: VER=0.4.14 BUILD_TYPE=Release RUN_IN_PLACE=1 USE_GETTEXT=1 USE_SOUND=0 USE_CURL=1 USE_FREETYPE=1 USE_LUAJIT=1 STATIC_SHAREDIR="."
02:47 AntumDeluge Any help is much appreciated.
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03:12 AntumDeluge Seems to be working again. But I started it from a new terminal.
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03:58 agrecascino help
03:58 agrecascino i'm getting a crash in my mod
03:58 agrecascino and to be honest i can't figure out how to fix it myself
04:01 blert I'm not doing much, maybe I can help you.
04:01 agrecascino alright
04:02 agrecascino https://github.com/agrecascino/factions
04:02 agrecascino what happens:
04:02 agrecascino person deletes faction
04:02 agrecascino person creates new faction
04:02 agrecascino somehow:
04:02 agrecascino thinks that player is in non existent faction
04:03 agrecascino tries to delete them from that faction
04:03 agrecascino *CRASH*
04:08 blert what is the command to create a faction?
04:09 agrecascino /factionsmod create
04:16 blert looks like there is a lot of error checking going on. Are you getting any messages in the log that could help out?
04:16 agrecascino a trace but that's it
04:39 blert I gave myself privs and created a faction. Seemed to work, no crash yet
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04:46 blert I did comment line 416 of factionsmod.lua as I don't have mobf installed.
04:50 agrecascino you have to then delete the faction
04:50 agrecascino and create a new one
04:51 blert ah, forgot that step
05:05 agrecascino no crash?
05:19 blert factionsmod.data.factionsmod[name].owner on line 385 is a nil value and that is causing the crash
05:20 agrecascino yeah
05:20 agrecascino that's what i though
05:20 agrecascino thought*
05:20 agrecascino not sure why
05:25 blert I would like to know why it is even trying to remove a member/faction when I create the new second one
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05:26 agrecascino it wants to keep you in only one faction
05:26 blert ah
05:35 blert remove the player from the deleted faction before actually deleting the faction. no crash
05:36 blert add this... factionsmod.member_remove(params[2],player) ... at line 232 of chatcommands
05:38 blert you will probably want to remove all players before the faction is deleted
05:39 agrecascino yeah
05:39 agrecascino how would i do that
05:40 blert loop through the players that are members and do the above function for each player
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05:51 blert damn, this mod is confusing, IMO it needs a complete rewrite but Sapier probably can understand what going on quite well
05:51 agrecascino fixed it
05:51 agrecascino blert, 99% of that comes from my hacks
05:52 blert loop through factionsmod.data.objects, check the name against the faction and remove the player if a match is found
05:53 blert oh, sorry. :)
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06:00 blert well, if you got it fixed I'm going to go back to testing my newest build
06:05 nolsen !server [TU
06:05 MinetestBot nolsen: [TUSS] The Ultimate Survival Server | minetest.nolsen.xyz | Clients: 1/15, 0/1 | Version: 0.4.14-dev / minetest | Ping: 161ms
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10:41 Calinou https://lut.im/swL8p1sfvl/3aNT4jugWsMuEEsy.png
10:41 Calinou paper added
10:42 Krock http://needsmorejpeg.com/i/eoaa.jpeg
10:42 Krock looks nice
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10:50 Megaf Hello
10:50 Megaf aix: Good day gentleman
10:51 Megaf agaran: Hello to you to sir
10:55 Krock ^ there's no girls on the internet
10:55 Calinou pushed an update: paper texture, obsidian/obsidian brick/obsidian block
10:55 Calinou 107 textures in the pack now
10:55 Krock \o/ *puts on a party hat*
10:57 * Krock clones
10:59 * Megaf doesn't
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11:00 Megaf oh no, there's no swapspace for Debian Wheezy
11:03 * Krock tries to build an alpine railway
11:04 T4im you mean a roller coaster? :D
11:05 Krock yep
11:07 Krock Calinou, I miss the torch flame.. it's not burning anymore :(
11:13 Megaf Dat moment when your internet is faster than your storage http://paste.debian.net/plain/786195
11:13 Krock xD
11:14 Megaf The strugle is real
11:16 Calinou Krock: it's really time consuming to do good animations
11:17 Megaf Mind blow, is the simple things! http://9gag.com/gag/aNWgzBw
11:17 Megaf !title
11:17 MinetestBot Megaf: Ford innovation - 9GAG
11:17 Calinou Megaf: did you see my texture pack?
11:17 Krock Calinou, oh, so you planned to improve that texture?
11:17 Calinou Krock: yes but I'll finish other nodes/items first
11:17 Megaf Calinou: yep, quite like it actually.
11:17 Krock nice :)
11:20 agaran Megaf: Hi Megaf, I did not look at irc for a moment
11:22 agaran Megaf: .. at work I saw transfers over 1 gigabyte per second to hard drive array.. we routinelly use 6G sas with multiple enclosures or 8/16G FC..
11:22 agaran it is -faster- than most internets anywhere
11:22 agaran unless you have 10Gb Ethernet that you can saturate with internet traffic..
11:22 agaran ok, back to fixing lua
11:30 Megaf 2419963392 bytes (2.4 GB, 2.3 GiB) copied, 1305.69 s, 1.9 MB/s
11:31 Megaf It gets slower as it runs out of cache
11:31 Megaf the actual write speed is around 1,2 MB/s
11:31 agaran I mean GB/s write.. not MB/s.. really not a typo..
11:31 agaran (10krpm drives, bunch of them)
11:32 Krock I got a 33 1/2 rpm drive
11:32 Krock it makes funny sounds
11:32 agaran oh, you can slow down and make it LP ;)
11:32 Megaf I used to have a bigfoot, have you ever saw one of those?
11:33 agaran I have one..
11:33 Megaf 5 inch hard drive
11:33 agaran 5.25 even, and I stil have it, working
11:33 Megaf I really liked it
11:33 Megaf yep
11:33 Krock agaran, 33 1/2 is LP ^^
11:34 Megaf so dd is just filing up the buffer
11:34 Megaf total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
11:34 Megaf Mem:           3386         609          34          52        2741        2671
11:34 Megaf Swap:          3377         591        2786
11:34 Megaf was kicked by ShadowBot: Paste flood detected. Use a pastebin like pastebin.ubuntu.com or gist.github.com.
11:34 Krock rip
11:34 Megaf joined #minetest
11:34 agaran Krock: oh, I never had black disks..
11:34 Krock What? Shame on you
11:34 agaran sorry, can't have all..
11:34 Krock Not even floppies? That's not acceptable
11:35 agaran well no.. floppies I had.. excluding 8" unfortunatelly..
11:35 agaran but 360kB 5.25" are still here.. with dos 3.30..
11:35 T4im 5.25" floppies make great cd hulls btw :3
11:36 Fixer joined #minetest
11:36 T4im cut them open and remove the magnetic plates, but keep the interior soft material, it's great to avoid damage to the disks
11:36 T4im cd's*
11:36 T4im what else are you gonna do with them anyway *shrug*
11:37 agaran yep but.. I'd rather damage cd than floppy.. too rare today
11:37 Krock ^ same
11:37 Calinou https://lut.im/1iclSWSpQy/zQEa6izC0VqRhmzR.png
11:37 Calinou pickaxes!
11:37 T4im rare, but also useless :P
11:38 Calinou the sword will be remade as well
11:38 Calinou to be more vanilla-like
11:38 agaran T4im: nope.. as I said, I still have some ancient software on them.. as well as drives to read them.. and well more such
11:38 * Krock slaps T4im a bit with a large trout for not seeing the real worth of floppies
11:38 T4im unless you operate an nuclear silo, then you'd probably need the old disks
11:40 T4im agaran: yea, but again, what for? :D
11:40 agaran T4im: I like ancientware..?
11:40 T4im next you keep your 20MB harddisk and your 2x86 PC to an old flickery crt monitor that can only do bernstein+black
11:41 agaran hmm.. I do have 40M hdd..
11:41 Krock Oh right and floppy drives make good music when controlled by arduino or similar
11:41 agaran and 386+ upwards.. from 286 only cpus/fpu remain..
11:41 agaran T4im: I can build 'nodes' out of cpus ;)
11:41 T4im heh
11:41 T4im ok, so it's nostalgy?
11:41 agaran yep..
11:42 Krock the smallest HDD (capacity) I got is 128 MB, Seagate ST3144A
11:42 agaran I still have my first hdd.. 81M caviar..
11:43 Megaf well, I still have all components of my first computer, but its hard drive
11:43 T4im you started out well fed with disk space then, agaran :p
11:44 agaran T4im: I had own computer much later than I started.. first had 360kB floppies, 2 of them.. and 512k ram..
11:44 agaran first x86 that is
11:46 T4im well, according to some weird guy that nearly ought to be enough for anybody
11:46 agaran yep.. and he was SO wrong..
11:47 T4im certainly is enough to run minetest
11:47 T4im :>
11:48 agaran 512k ram?
11:48 agaran if you pool memory out of 1024 such computers then.. maybe?
11:48 Krock Minetest runs fine on older systems, so why shouldn't it work there? :P
11:49 T4im if your swap is large enough maybe :> you'd need a lot of those 20/40M plates then though
11:49 agaran T4im: and to load 1 node you need to wait a week or so?
11:49 T4im people were used to waiting anyway :>
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12:54 aix okay guys
12:54 aix give me common words in spammer's nicknames
12:54 aix Things like SexyGirl4 and the like
12:54 aix I'm expanding my banned names regex definitions
12:56 basxto WorldEnder666
12:56 tpe Anything with xX at the beginning, and Xx at the end.
12:56 aix how about anything with xx in it
12:57 tpe ...pretty much, yep.
12:57 aix ["xx"] = "No... just no",
12:59 aix https://sr.ht/cqV7.txt here's what i have
13:00 Krock Please don't use these reasons. Keep them neutral
13:00 aix what do you suggest?
13:00 Krock ["herobrine"] = "Nick forbidden due to overuse",   (or similar)
13:00 aix ah
13:00 aix fair enough
13:01 aix how do i disallow all caps?
13:01 Krock and doesn't ["[0-9][0-9][0-9]"] and ["[0-9]*[0-9]*[0-9]"] do the same thing?
13:01 aix i dont think these regexes are case sensitive
13:01 rubenwardy "[Hh][Ee][Rr][Oo][Bb][Rr][Ii][Nn][Ee]"
13:01 aix no, the second one matches s2s2s2
13:01 aix uh
13:01 Krock no, you'd have to modify the on_prejoinplayer function
13:02 T4im lua patterns please?
13:02 Krock rubenwardy, it's all set to lowercase before doing regex
13:02 rubenwardy oh
13:02 Krock IIRC
13:02 aix damn
13:02 aix then how do i ban all caps names
13:02 Krock aix, what mod do you use? no_guests?
13:02 aix Player with the name "HeroBriNe" tried to connect from .. yeah
13:02 aix name_restrictions
13:02 T4im %d instead of [0-9] ftw
13:03 Krock aix, link for source please
13:03 Krock (can't find the mod)
13:03 aix https://github.com/ShadowNinja/name_restrictions
13:04 aix local lname = name:lower()
13:04 aix yup
13:04 Megaf joined #minetest
13:04 aix if not name:lower() == name
13:04 aix or something to that effect
13:05 Krock https://github.com/ShadowNinja/name_r​estrictions/blob/master/init.lua#L39 insert if name:upper() == name then return "Caps detected" end
13:07 aix works great, thanks
13:07 Krock np
13:07 T4im " > no, the second one matches s2s2s2" it also matches every name with a single digit in it
13:07 T4im every other*
13:08 aix huh
13:08 T4im unless greedyness of the regex prevents that
13:08 aix does it
13:08 aix so it does
13:08 * Megaf is back
13:08 T4im well [0-9]* reads as "none or more characters between 0 and 9"
13:09 T4im also %d meaning "digit" is probably a cleaner way
13:09 T4im might also be faster, although I've not microbenchmarked that yet
13:09 T4im and it's not really important either
13:09 aix ^
13:10 basxto HER0BRINE
13:10 aix ["[0-9][0-9][0-9]"] this does what i think though right
13:10 aix basxto: good point
13:10 Krock H3R0BR1N3
13:10 Krock oh nvm
13:10 Krock HER0BR1NE, would be valid
13:10 T4im three digits, yes, which imo is a bit low
13:10 aix ["h[e3]r[0o]br[i1]n[e3]"]
13:10 basxto H∃ROBRINE … is utf-8 even allowed?
13:11 T4im not in names
13:11 aix Krock: no it wouldn't
13:11 aix it's all capitals
13:11 Krock HeR0BR1NE, there we go
13:11 aix matches ["h[e3]r[0o]br[i1]n[e3]"]
13:11 aix it's case insensitive
13:11 basxto HEROBRlNE with some fonts
13:12 T4im why don't you just get rid of all the silly rules and just enforce a name to have at least 4 consecutive lowercase letters :P
13:12 aix ...
13:12 aix you're so rude
13:12 T4im I think that's more reasonable than blocing people with a year in their name
13:12 Krock just add ["*"] and you've successfully blocked all bad names
13:12 * aix coughs
13:12 T4im sorry, I did not intend to be rude
13:13 Amaz That's the best idea yet Krock!
13:13 aix heh, your name doesn't have 4 consecutive lowercase letters either
13:13 Krock Amaz, thank you :)
13:13 T4im fair point x)
13:13 T4im darn
13:13 aix we could implement a protocol for name exemption negotiations
13:13 aix but you'll need to use netcat to get on a server
13:13 basxto and make sure to block unusual combinations like sxt
13:13 aix inb4 mobile app developers implement a script to do it
13:14 T4im captchas? VanessaE addeed something like that to her servers
13:14 aix basxto: so all consonants
13:14 T4im for interact
13:14 aix but that'd block things like strncpy
13:14 T4im "tell us, what is a VHS?" no players anymore :(
13:14 aix which i use sometimes
13:14 aix captchas?
13:14 Krock T4im, virtual hosted server? dunno
13:14 aix we're fighting humans not bots
13:14 aix maybe really hard captchas
13:15 aix then it times you
13:15 Megaf lol, I just learned that I can do this
13:15 Megaf $ echo $[2-9]
13:15 Megaf -7
13:15 Calinou "Please select all the Mese blocks below"
13:15 aix LOL
13:15 aix YES
13:15 Calinou Megaf: isn't the syntax $((2-9))
13:16 Krock Megaf, try this one: % make love
13:16 Krock Make:  Don't know how to make love.  Stop.
13:16 aix Which of the images below is the first Minetest player model?
13:16 aix Which of the images below is the first 3-D Minetest player model?
13:17 aix Then put lots of 2d and 3d ones for both and it'll ban you if you select a 2d skin for the second question
13:17 Krock I didn't know that there are multiple player models
13:17 aix then it'll add you to some sort of global ban list
13:17 aix fuck
13:17 aix skins
13:17 aix although the player model did change
13:17 Megaf Calinou: I have no idea
13:17 T4im hmm how about 4 consecutive letters for names of length > 8?
13:17 aix only once, from around 0.3.x to 0.4.x, from a 2d model into a less 2d thing
13:18 aix T4im: 8 character names is a little over the top
13:18 T4im names like nobody901234 would then not be blocked (which was a valid player)
13:18 Calinou hey, why not limit player names to 8.3 convention
13:18 Krock there are actually several different player models. The one with cape support and one for 3d_armor and
13:18 Krock -and
13:19 Calinou KROCK.JPG
13:19 Krock \o/
13:19 T4im heh
13:19 Krock STAMP~12.JPG
13:19 Krock (STAMPYTHELONGNOSE)
13:19 T4im you know aix, if you'd just allow guest names, you probably wouldn't have to deal too much with nasty evasion-nicknames
13:20 T4im although some things probably should be blocked just for the vulgarity sake
13:21 Krock T4im, but it would be better to block that username because I couldn't remember the numbers and just copypasted
13:21 T4im oh, they weren't some special date or something?
13:21 Krock nope. random
13:21 T4im and there I was and thought you'd have birthday soon
13:21 Krock rekt
13:22 Krock and btw, it's still Nobody900824 :P
13:22 T4im yes, that's why I meant soon
13:22 T4im upcoming month
13:22 T4im and why I didn't use the actual number, privacy and such :P
13:22 aix would it be seen as advertising if i were to ask for moderators here?
13:22 Krock I'm 90 years old and my birthday is in 25 days
13:23 T4im 26 seemed like a reasonable age for you
13:23 Krock oh god, where did all these years go?
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13:24 Krock aix, people here usually don't talk about a server. It's rather about the mods and Minetest configuration
13:24 Krock so you won't be very successful when asking here. Try your luck on inchra
13:24 aix inchra?
13:25 Krock daconcepts.com, an IRC server
13:25 Krock for Minetest servers
13:26 aix what channel though
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13:31 aix I kinda think minetest really needs a trusted private server, with no area protection and a lenghthy interview process
13:31 Krock what in the internet is trusted?
13:32 aix i don't know
13:32 aix maybe it's time to make something trusted
13:40 Megaf so, google chrome just died here, for no reason, just closed
13:40 Megaf nothing on dmesh
13:40 Megaf dmesg
13:40 Fixer joined #minetest
13:42 * Krock gives Megaf a gravestone
13:43 Megaf and it managed to send a crash report to google http://paste.debian.net/plain/786205
13:44 * Megaf puts the gravestone by chrome's grave
13:50 Megaf so, my favourite linux admin tools so far. saidar, htop, tmux, mosh, iotop, kill, bwm-ng, nano, weechat
13:51 Megaf saidar kinda replaces bwm-ng, iotop and top
13:53 aix how is weechat an admin tool?
13:54 Megaf This is saidar by the way http://uploadpie.com/WxFcs
13:54 sfan5 how is tmux an admin tool?
13:55 Megaf aix: for asking help in #Debian, #CentOS and #Kernel
13:55 Krock how is kill an admin tool?
13:55 Megaf :P
13:55 Megaf sfan5: really?
13:55 sfan5 yes
13:55 aix there are no admin tools in that list my good sir
13:56 aix they're all useful in administration, but the same could be said for ls
13:56 * Megaf runs because nobody gets the joke
13:56 sfan5 ^
13:56 Krock I'm being ignored :(
13:56 aix which i think you use a little more often than any of those
13:56 aix Krock: you were late to the party
13:56 * Megaf cries in a corner
13:56 sfan5 wow how ingenious
13:56 sfan5 saying something
13:57 sfan5 and when it turns out to be wrong
13:57 * Krock gives Megaf another corned to crie twice
13:57 sfan5 just say it's a joke
13:57 sfan5 this is new
13:57 Krock *try
13:57 aix my favourite admin tools: doas, sudo, the "-" operator
13:57 Krock *cry (can't spell)
13:57 sfan5 aix: >doas
13:57 sfan5 do you use bsd?
13:57 aix yus
13:57 aix sometimes
13:57 aix not as often as i'd like anymore
13:57 Megaf doas any different as su user?
13:57 Krock my favourite admins tools: apt-get uninstall gentoo
13:57 Megaf from*
13:57 sfan5 but does it support btrfs?
13:58 aix Megaf: it's like sudo®
13:58 aix Krock: it's remove
13:58 Megaf lol Krock
13:58 Krock but you see what I mean
13:58 aix do i
13:58 aix do i really
13:58 Krock yes you do
13:58 aix oh my yes i do
13:59 everamzah apt-show gentoo -> Description: fully GUI-configurable, two-pane X file manager
13:59 Megaf anyone here who likes and uses things lile puppet and webmin?
13:59 aix apt-cache search gentoo -.-
13:59 aix ew
13:59 aix used to
14:00 Megaf gentoo/testing 0.20.6-2 amd64
14:00 Megaf fully GUI-configurable, two-pane X file manager
14:00 Megaf oh my
14:00 aix but then i remembered i didn't like being hacked
14:00 Megaf me neither, now a days all I use is mosh + tmux
14:00 Amaz joined #minetest
14:00 aix same
14:00 aix minus the mosh part
14:01 everamzah oh right, it was apt show, not apt-show.  i used to use apt-cache search, until i discovered `apt' apt-get frontend
14:01 Megaf mosh is cool for slow/unstable connections
14:01 everamzah i mean apt cache haha
14:01 Megaf it reconnects on it's own
14:01 everamzah i can never get my mouse to work in it with tmux/stuff
14:02 Megaf lol, minetest, a game for linux admins
14:02 Megaf and bSD
14:02 Megaf BSD
14:03 TGminer joined #minetest
14:07 everamzah oh, it was apt-cache afterall.  been about a year i've used `apt' for apt-cache and apt-get
14:10 Megaf imagine debugging this https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped​ia/commons/2/23/PDP-8I-backplane.jpg
14:14 Krock that's horrible
14:14 Krock why didn't they use different cable colors?
14:16 nm0i hi
14:18 Krock hi i0mn
14:19 Trustable joined #minetest
14:19 nm0i hi ʞɔoɹʞ
14:19 Megaf k3ck3r!
14:19 Megaf I mena
14:19 Megaf k4ck3r!
14:20 Megaf s/mena/mean
14:20 * Megaf hides
14:20 * nm0i unhides Megaf
14:20 Megaf Does anyone knows this thing? Called swapspace
14:20 Krock No, I don't knows this thing
14:20 lumidify joined #minetest
14:20 Megaf what it basically does is, created, allocates and removes swap images on demand
14:21 Megaf it monitors your system use, memory and disk use/space, and creates swap
14:21 Megaf or removes
14:21 Megaf Like that
14:21 Megaf Notice: Allocating swapfile '7'
14:21 Megaf Setting up swapspace version 1, size = 1.1 GiB (1227878400 bytes)
14:21 Megaf Notice: Retiring swapfile '7
14:21 nm0i sounds like 10 lines of bash code around swapon/swapoff
14:22 Megaf more eficient than having a swap partition
14:23 Megaf http://pqxx.org/development/swapspace/
14:23 Megaf and my w3m webbrowser is sick, it is showing images
14:24 Markow joined #minetest
14:25 nm0i Ok, its some c magic afterall
14:25 Megaf nm0i: I'd say a little more than 10 lines of bash code...
14:25 Megaf the thing is pretty complex
14:26 nm0i But so far it looks like most of their code is rant on Unix IPC
14:27 Fixer joined #minetest
14:32 nm0i Megaf: do you use digilines?
14:34 nm0i For some reason only 13 servers use this mod, while mesecons are used on 40...
14:34 T4im not everyone might be as comfortable with executing lua code, written by players
14:35 T4im sandbox or not
14:35 nm0i luacontroller is available on 37 servers.
14:36 T4im hm
14:36 nm0i and Megaf allows it :P
14:37 T4im how many of those servers run on windows?
14:40 nm0i nmap -O time...
14:40 Yst joined #minetest
14:44 nm0i Also you don't need lua controller for digiline usage, e.g. setting devices on the same channel works for displays/rct/sensors : http://me0w.net/pit/1469976181
14:45 Markow joined #minetest
14:56 agrecascino joined #minetest
14:59 KaadmY joined #minetest
15:01 Megaf nm0i: Yes I do
15:01 Megaf lua controller is pretty safe imho, it has lots of limits, you cant use the whole lua language there
15:02 PseudoNoob joined #minetest
15:02 nm0i Yeah, "heat". Yet you still had some problems once... I don't remember details.
15:04 Megaf It's been a long while since the last time we had any problem with it, and we have 100s of lua controllers
15:05 Megaf mesecons in it's current state is pretty safe and not so taxing on the server resources if properly set up
15:06 Megaf technic on the other hand...
15:06 Calinou <aix> I kinda think minetest really needs a trusted private server, with no area protection and a lenghthy interview process
15:06 Calinou problem is, it's hard getting any players on those when the barrier to entry is that high
15:06 agaran Calinou: what one need to do to get own area on your server btw? (I got disco today cause internal server errror..)
15:07 Calinou server automatically restarts on crash
15:07 Calinou agaran: you can ask me for areas priv
15:07 Calinou so that you can protect areas yourself
15:07 Megaf [16:06:18] <Calinou> <aix> I kinda think minetest really needs a trusted private server, with no area protection and a lenghthy interview process
15:07 Megaf my server is almost like that
15:07 Megaf not as hard, and it's always empty
15:07 agaran Megaf: untrue, I had no interview ;)
15:07 Megaf so yeah...
15:08 Megaf agaran: you had, believe me
15:08 Megaf agaran: the thing is, people who are on the IRC have much shorter interviews
15:08 agaran that reminds me motd from some irc server (private) I know.. this is private server for fellows
15:09 agaran Calinou: any traceback in log after crash?
15:10 Megaf someone need to fix either creatures/sheep/chicken mod or the bow and arrow thing of minetest so I can kill animals with arrous
15:10 * Megaf looks at sfan5 VanessaE and Calinou
15:10 sfan5 what
15:10 whitephoenix joined #minetest
15:10 agaran Megaf: well if only entities would not have so short lifetime on your server then eggs would be easier to get
15:10 Calinou agaran: need to find server log, too much work :D
15:10 Megaf agaran: blame minetest server memory use
15:11 Calinou Megaf: server has 16 GB of RAM
15:11 agaran Calinou: then why you are worried with mod or two more?;)
15:12 Megaf agaran: just increased the time to 10 minutes, shall be enough right?
15:12 agaran was like 2 -3 minutes before?
15:13 Megaf Not sure, the default for years had been around 10 seconds
15:13 Calinou agaran: because mods eat mostly CPU
15:13 Calinou and CPU is far from infinite
15:13 Megaf but I've been playing with the number lately
15:14 * Megaf has got some eggs
15:14 Calinou I have a very simple mobs mod in the works
15:14 Calinou adds rats/oerkkis
15:14 Calinou (based on PilzAdam's mobs mod, so the code needs fixes)
15:17 Void7 joined #minetest
15:19 Hijiri what do people think about a common mob interface
15:19 Hijiri something that would let mods interact uniformly with mobs from different mods
15:20 Hijiri only problems is people have to use it, and some parts might need yet another mod (anything global)
15:20 edaq joined #minetest
15:21 edaq hey has anyone here hado problems with this error: "No longer accepting new players" when trying to join a server you are already a player on?
15:21 edaq can someone try to join Xandu server on minetest to see if it is limited to just my client
15:21 edaq I dont know why
15:21 edaq but every time I try I get that error
15:21 Hijiri could be a custom message
15:21 edaq even though there are only 5/40 online
15:21 Hijiri mods can kick you with a programmer-specified message
15:22 edaq weird
15:22 edaq I had not broken any rules
15:22 edaq never even got a complaint
15:22 Hijiri it says not accepting new players
15:22 edaq weird
15:22 Hijiri probably means it doesn't want new registrations
15:22 edaq but I am already a player there
15:22 Hijiri that's weird
15:23 edaq I have tried to reach tenplus1
15:23 edaq but cannot get ahold of any admin
15:23 edaq or mod
15:23 edaq (I wonder if they no longer check forum messages)
15:23 edaq ah well
15:23 edaq I will remove it from my connect list and probably move to skyblock
15:23 edaq I had nycat boots :|
15:24 edaq meh
15:24 edaq took forever to get those
15:24 edaq anyway thanks foe the help Hijiri :)
15:24 Hijiri edaq: did you contact him on the forum?
15:24 Hijiri he is usually active there
15:24 edaq yeah
15:24 edaq left a message
15:24 edaq never got a return one
15:24 edaq wondered if he just did not care to deal with it
15:25 Amaz edaq, Xanadu was attacked by trollers, who kept on changing IP and making new accounts with which they spammed and stuff.
15:25 edaq people do get busy sometimes
15:25 Hijiri he comes on IRC sometimes too, maybe you can catch him when he's on
15:25 edaq Amaz, I am not a troll though
15:25 Amaz So ten had to disable new accounts, in order to stop that.
15:25 edaq I had an existing account
15:25 Amaz There wasn't anything he could do about it.
15:26 hmmmm joined #minetest
15:26 Amaz So did I, but I can't log on either.
15:26 Void7 joined #minetest
15:26 Amaz So something must be wrong somewhere...
15:26 edaq well thanks for the help Amaz :)
15:26 Amaz *shrugs*
15:26 Amaz np
15:26 edaq I am moving to skyblock
15:26 Amaz I'll ask ten when I see him on IRC next :)
15:26 edaq ok
15:26 edaq if he gets it resolved hilight me :)
15:27 edaq until then I will be skyblocking
15:27 edaq its so weird
15:27 Amaz Okay :)
15:27 edaq yeah
15:29 Amaz Is edaq your name on the server and on the forums?
15:30 edaq yeah
15:30 Amaz Okay!
15:30 edaq I have to find the password tho
15:30 edaq I did a direct message on forum
15:31 edaq I think Xandu is doomed imo
15:31 edaq none of the old players can get on
15:31 edaq which probably means they will all move on
15:31 edaq and no one will be allowed to connect until no one wants to bother
15:32 edaq which is a complete bummer
15:32 edaq I liked the community there
15:32 Megaf [16:25:12] <Amaz> edaq, Xanadu was attacked by trollers, who kept on changing IP and making new accounts with which they spammed and stuff.
15:32 Megaf Why would someone do that to a Minetest server?
15:32 Megaf We are all good people
15:33 edaq well most of us
15:33 edaq just because you are on minetest does not mean you are nice
15:33 edaq per se
15:33 edaq most of us are
15:33 edaq I think
15:33 Amaz Megaf, I think someone was banned, and they didn't like it...
15:33 Megaf agaran:
15:33 Megaf ]Killed
15:34 shamoanjac does Minetest have a problem with loading textures from subdirectories or something?
15:34 edaq the problem is though
15:34 Megaf That's what happens with a long time for enities
15:34 agaran Megaf: ouch? what you did do, OOM for memory?
15:34 Calinou shamoanjac: yes, texture packs can't use subdirectories
15:34 Megaf OOM
15:34 Calinou and mods probably not either
15:34 shamoanjac ah well thanks Calinou
15:34 edaq if you kick all your old members and locks them out
15:34 shamoanjac a shame, I wanted it to be nicely ordered
15:34 edaq they will stop comming back
15:35 edaq which is a bummer
15:35 edaq in attempting to stop trolls
15:35 edaq they have killed their server
15:37 agrecascino ?
15:38 edaq agrecascino, hm
15:38 edaq oh talking about the Xandu troll problem
15:39 edaq really changing ip isnt that hard
15:39 edaq most routers have a button to do so
15:39 edaq (IE mine forces a new ip every 24 hours if I dont request a keep)
15:39 edaq so the whole ban thing is a bit old
15:40 edaq unless you ban by device fingerprint
15:40 edaq or by nick
15:40 edaq or all the above
15:40 everamzah never thought i'd see the day when xanadu was private LOL
15:40 edaq (I think as a web site you can ban all browsers of x kind with screen size of y, with theme setting
15:41 edaq yeah :|
15:41 edaq I am sure they will fix it
15:41 edaq but by then I think it may be too late
15:41 edaq I had a server
15:41 edaq went down for a week
15:41 edaq (crash)
15:41 edaq no one came back
15:41 edaq its weird
15:42 edaq as it is I check Xandu every week
15:42 edaq its been about 3-4 weeks
15:42 edaq I think
15:42 sfan5 <edaq> unless you ban by device fingerprint
15:42 sfan5 except you can't do that with minetest
15:42 edaq sfan5, that feature could be added
15:43 edaq have each minetest installation generate a special code
15:43 edaq based on screen dimension
15:43 edaq or something
15:43 agaran edaq: and pigs could fly..  if code is gnerated you can fake it..
15:43 edaq true
15:43 edaq but its harder for a troll to change screens and theme and ip
15:43 sfan5 that wouldn't help
15:43 edaq then just ip
15:43 edaq increases the effort required
15:43 agaran when I have to I just block whole ip ranges of internet provider that trouble came from..
15:43 sfan5 people can just use an old client which doesn't support those
15:44 edaq true
15:44 T4im you can os fingerprint on os/network layer level, which is not a minetest issue though
15:44 edaq nmap can do it
15:44 agaran they had 65k ip? who cares if they can't keep their uses behaving..
15:44 sfan5 nmap can't fingerprint most home connections
15:44 agaran T4im: sure, you can tcp/ip stack properties leave nice fingerprint but thats hardly application level...
15:44 T4im nmap is active, edaq, that might just get you into trouble
15:44 sfan5 because 1) there is a router doing NAT
15:44 edaq I usually can, stealth nmap
15:44 shamoanjac just in case anyone is interested, I am still working on the banners mod, https://8ch.net/v/src/1469979636474.png
15:44 sfan5 and 2) most ports are closed
15:45 sfan5 s/most/all/
15:45 edaq ah as long as port 80 is open
15:45 T4im agaran: that's the idea, application level can be faked too easy
15:45 edaq or port 0
15:45 sfan5 none of those are open on normal home connections
15:45 edaq you can get a os fingerprint
15:45 agaran T4im: :)
15:45 nm0i T4im: weirdly out of 37 servers I found no windows servers. Though they might be behind NAT.
15:45 edaq you could maybe have a randomly generated code
15:45 edaq that would be hard to find for a non hacker
15:45 sfan5 this whole code thing can be faked
15:45 agaran T4im: interesting is to see that so called random sequences used in it don't are really even close to random..
15:45 edaq ofc
15:46 edaq but it makes it harder on the troll sfan5
15:46 edaq they not only have to know how to change ip
15:46 aix i miss the days when trolls didn't know about minetest
15:46 sfan5 once someone finds it, no
15:46 edaq but how to install a hexeditor
15:46 aix we should never have ported it to android
15:46 edaq or mobile devices at all
15:46 edaq you get kids and trolls from services like that imo
15:46 aix although it should be noted you can just enable strict protocol checking, and get the latest git
15:46 edaq hm
15:46 edaq interesting
15:46 edaq mine I think is from debian
15:47 edaq (I may have to compile a tar later)
15:47 edaq but dont have to worry about it now
15:47 edaq yes
15:47 edaq trolls can find out how
15:47 edaq but if you make enough identifiers
15:48 edaq you will filter out lazy trolls
15:48 edaq like money counterfeiting
15:48 aix i dont think minetest has trolls
15:48 aix it just has very young kids who have no clue how to behave
15:48 edaq there arent many counterfeiters
15:48 edaq because its hard
15:48 edaq right
15:48 aix smart trolls is an oxymoron in itself
15:48 edaq very young kids wont install a hex editor
15:49 aix smart people don't become trolls and vice versa
15:49 edaq true
15:49 edaq most people know if there not wanted
15:49 edaq they leave
15:50 edaq or change their behavior
15:50 edaq no use getting banned over and over
15:50 aix they're*
15:50 aix sorry
15:52 Megaf shamoanjac: Looks good so far
15:52 shamoanjac thanks
15:52 Megaf nm0i: How are you finding server and doing theses stats stuff?
15:53 T4im port scanning them
15:53 Megaf and what can you say from my server?
15:53 aix lol
15:53 edaq there are stealth scans
15:53 edaq and random wait times
15:53 edaq its legal
15:53 T4im still unnecessary
15:53 aix quite
15:53 edaq and easy
15:53 edaq ah
15:53 T4im passive fingerprinting is enough
15:53 * Megaf remember that he have to put some firewall on
15:53 aix passive
15:53 aix hmm
15:54 T4im they are sending packets to you already, no need to send any back, just analyse what you get
15:54 edaq well there are ways to generate a mintest client code
15:54 aix great, a firewall, more identifiable stuff
15:54 nm0i Megaf: http://servers.minetest.net/list
15:54 nm0i json
15:54 aix oh
15:54 aix fair enough
15:54 nm0i Megaf: nmap for os detection
15:54 aix that's easy
15:54 Megaf aix: so, to firewall or not?
15:54 aix that is the question, don't you think?
15:54 Megaf I don't have any protection on my server whatsoever
15:55 aix </bad shakespeare reference>
15:55 T4im always firewall
15:55 T4im why wouldn't you?
15:55 aix I personally use UFW but
15:55 shamoanjac is there a guide on implementing callbacks for buttons in Minetest custom GUIs?
15:55 Megaf just updated packages,
15:55 aix i'm just too dumb to use iptables
15:55 nm0i !server Megaf
15:55 MinetestBot nm0i: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/24, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 6ms
15:55 aix also i dont like issuing two commands per port that i allow (i'm on dual stack)
15:56 Megaf oh look, my ping improved! from 8 ms to 6 ms
15:56 edaq there is Firewall Builder and Gufw for iptables
15:56 sfan5 aix: pretty easy: -P INPUT DROP, then use -A INPUT -m <tcp or udp> -p <tcp or udp again> --dport <port num> -j ACCEPT to whitelist ports
15:56 aix zzzz
15:56 sfan5 use the same with -D to delete those rules again
15:56 aix kinda long though
15:56 sfan5 you won't need to install ufw though
15:56 sfan5 :)
15:56 aix i could make a wrapper that does the same with iptables and ip6tables
15:56 * Megaf will hire sfan5 for firewall stuff,
15:56 T4im shorewall is also a pretty powerful iptables rule generator and manager
15:56 nm0i edaq: it might be not legal in some countries.
15:56 Megaf I will pay in diamonds
15:57 aix I use a fuckton of ports for openvpn peerings and dn42 links
15:57 Krock ALERT: > 1 message/s
15:57 sfan5 Megaf: step 1: you don't need a firewall
15:57 Calinou !server Calinou
15:57 MinetestBot Calinou: Calinou [Europe/Paris] (survival - minimal mods) | hugo.pro:30002 | Clients: 1/32, 0/9 | Version: 0.4.14-dev / minetest | Ping: 10ms
15:57 Calinou Megaf: 10ms :p
15:57 nm0i Megaf: You're keeping minetest behind NAT, it seems
15:57 edaq hello Calinou
15:57 aix firewalls are pretty unnecessary for a majority of simple purposes
15:57 aix if you just bind a program to localhost it'll suffice to keep others using it
15:58 Megaf nm0i: it's complicated
15:58 Calinou firewalls would be useful if IPv6 was widespread
15:58 aix ^
15:58 Calinou (without NAT, that is)
15:58 aix ^^
15:58 Calinou sadly some ISPs were/are trying to push IPv6 with NAT
15:58 aix well, nat is nice in some places
15:58 Calinou which is probably total nonsense
15:58 aix I use NAT :)
15:58 T4im how about preventing any exploits and issues you have **not** thought of? because that's usually what you use it for :p
15:59 sfan5 Calinou: dunno what your router does but mine drops incoming ipv6 traffic
15:59 aix T4im: not really
15:59 sfan5 at least i'm pretty sure
15:59 aix firewalls aren't that smart
15:59 nm0i Why do we need IPv6, if we can kill some people in 3d world countries to free IP range.
15:59 T4im they don't need to be smart
15:59 aix things like grsecurity/RBAC do that
15:59 Krock no program is smart
15:59 aix and those are smart
15:59 aix scuse me
15:59 edaq nm0i, it is legal to send packets and time the response
15:59 Megaf lol nm0i
15:59 edaq its like knocking on the door
15:59 edaq its legal so long as you dont do it a million times
15:59 aix which can be illegal
15:59 aix depends on the door
15:59 edaq like spam
15:59 T4im a MAX/RBAC tool is good additionally, yes, some even might cover things firewalls do
15:59 T4im MAC*
16:00 aix there are some ranges which it is downright ILLEGAL to scan or even touch
16:00 sfan5 edaq: the question isn't whether it's legal, the question is whether it gets your abuse notices
16:00 Calinou sfan5: my router can do that too
16:00 sfan5 ISPs generally aren't happy with abuse notices
16:00 Megaf any security person here who wants to help me find any security breach on my server?
16:00 sfan5 Megaf: gimme ur ip
16:00 T4im if you scan the wrong things, you'll simply land on blacklists, done
16:00 edaq sfan5, there are some stealth modes
16:00 Megaf sfan5: mt.megaf.info points to it
16:00 edaq and passive port scanning with random wait times
16:01 sfan5 passive port scanning, how does that work?
16:01 T4im scanning is never passive
16:01 T4im there is passive analysis though
16:01 edaq well scanning traffic
16:01 edaq to and from an ip
16:01 sfan5 Megaf: what is that thing on port 9102?
16:01 edaq if I open a connection to you
16:01 aix https://sr.ht/oGjN.txt here, scan any of these and you're committing a federal offence
16:01 Megaf sfan5: ssh
16:01 sfan5 >federal offense
16:02 sfan5 kek
16:02 aix offence
16:02 aix sorry america
16:02 sfan5 what if i'm not in the US
16:02 aix yeah if you're in the uk it's all good
16:02 Miner_48er joined #minetest
16:02 aix which you are, right?
16:02 T4im sfan5: then they will surveille you and interecept all your traffic; oh wait, they're already doing that
16:02 aix oh well who cares
16:02 sfan5 aix: nah, germany
16:03 aix oh
16:03 aix even better
16:03 T4im in germany it's actually a grey zone, too
16:03 edaq arguably it is not tresspassing aix
16:03 aix more freedom of information there
16:03 aix i think
16:03 edaq its only illegal if you break in
16:03 aix it's actually pretty fun to scan them
16:03 edaq simply pinging a port is not illegal
16:03 * Megaf waits for security reports (via pvt) about his server
16:03 sfan5 Megaf: that port is on nmaps list of ports to scan
16:03 sfan5 i'd suggest using something else
16:03 edaq correction
16:03 aix i mean it did come in a file called "DO NOT NMAP/SCAN THESE IPS"
16:03 edaq pinging a port once is not illegal
16:03 aix without the slash
16:03 T4im edaq: but preparing for an attack by scanning for vulnerabilities is
16:04 T4im and that's the grey zone there
16:04 edaq pinging a port a 1000 times is
16:04 aix is it?
16:04 edaq they cannot prove intent to attack
16:04 edaq all they can do is harass you
16:04 aix who
16:04 aix who's they
16:04 T4im sure, if you want to push it :P
16:04 edaq the us.mil sites
16:04 edaq but I dont care to port scan them
16:04 Megaf sfan5: done
16:04 sfan5 edaq: if your ISP gets enough abuse noticed they'll kick you out
16:05 Megaf I'm using something else now
16:05 aix http://corz.org/public/docs/secur​ity/dont%20scan%20these%20ips.pdf oh good they're public domain
16:05 edaq sfan5, aside from stealth scans
16:05 edaq you can use proxy
16:05 edaq and ip spoofing
16:05 aix luckily I use a internet provider that doesn't care about anything
16:06 sfan5 ip spoofing doesn't work in 2016
16:06 aix i think it's illegal not to block some sites such as thepiratebay in the uk
16:06 T4im again: if you scan too intensively in best case you land on blacklists
16:06 aix >zero fucks given
16:06 edaq right T4im
16:06 edaq if you port scan spam
16:06 edaq there are stealth modes that walk the ports randomly
16:07 edaq and with random wait times
16:07 juhdanad joined #minetest
16:07 edaq also
16:07 aix or you can use multiple nodes
16:07 T4im and you think a SIEM system of a blacklist provider doesn't know those tricks?
16:07 aix like distnmap or whatever it was called
16:07 edaq my isp does not care about anything at all(even if its users can connect)
16:07 aix ^ same
16:08 aix my isp is in fact also a server host
16:08 edaq they would put you on hold for 20 hours to pay your bill
16:08 aix a pretty bad one at that
16:08 edaq a complaint would take more hours
16:08 T4im they don't like to be paid? :o
16:08 aix yup
16:08 edaq I feel sorry for who ever tries to complain to them
16:08 aix getting paid sucks
16:09 aix !server light
16:09 MinetestBot aix: Light creative | 178.79.185.175:30005 | Clients: 5/24, 5/8 | Version: 0.4.14 / stabilizer | Ping: 7ms
16:09 T4im if they really don't care about anything, thought about operating a tor exit node? :3
16:09 aix uh no
16:09 aix !server Lightning
16:09 MinetestBot aix: Lightning | tau.aix.ovh | Clients: 0/32, 0/1 | Version: 0.4.14-dev / lightning | Ping: 8ms
16:09 edaq nice do not scan list btw :)
16:09 aix why thank you
16:09 aix i even have some scripts to derive from it
16:09 edaq I will rename it to scan list and send it to troll net lol
16:09 aix expanding generates a few gigabytes of data
16:09 edaq kidding
16:09 edaq nice
16:10 Megaf Those pings
16:10 edaq I love scripts
16:10 sfan5 Megaf: well it doesn't look like you have anything open which shouldn't be
16:10 edaq I have a script for starting my minetest
16:10 edaq starts it on a second screen automatically
16:10 Megaf I wonder if anyone can brute force over ssh
16:10 Megaf or something
16:10 sfan5 brute force what
16:10 aix https://sr.ht/cscu.txt https://sr.ht/7071.txt https://sr.ht/EIO4.txt happy hacking
16:11 Megaf I dont know, try several passwords for root for example
16:11 sfan5 if you've enabled password login
16:11 aix https://sr.ht/v9TP.txt last one i promise
16:11 sfan5 yes they can
16:11 Megaf sfan5: did you manage to get any OS information?
16:11 sfan5 havent tried that yet
16:11 * Megaf likes txt, works well on w3m
16:11 aix https://sr.ht/hHLR.txt https://sr.ht/2wIS.txt final ones this time
16:12 Megaf https://sr.ht/v9TP.txt is not opening tho
16:12 aix i never realised how sad i was
16:12 aix isn't it?
16:12 aix do you have ipv6?
16:12 Megaf hm, w3m cant open txt maybe
16:12 shangul joined #minetest
16:12 sfan5 Megaf: "No exact OS matches for host (test conditions non-ideal)." but "Aggressive OS guesses: Linux 2.6.32 (95%), Linux 2.6.32 - 3.1 (95%)"
16:13 Megaf 2.6.32-042stab093.4
16:13 Megaf well done nmap
16:13 aix um.
16:13 GrimKriegor joined #minetest
16:13 aix oh that's not me
16:13 sfan5 aix: why would i portscan you >.>
16:14 aix :3
16:14 aix its actually an OS scan :D
16:14 aix it's -A right
16:14 sfan5 i went with -O and -F
16:14 aix ah
16:14 aix wait what do those do
16:15 sfan5 -O -- OS detection
16:15 aix i'm used to using -A for OS fingerprinting
16:15 sfan5 -F -- try 100 instead of 1000 ports
16:15 aix oh i guess -A does everything
16:15 Megaf weird, my browsers cant open your links aix, but Quassel IRC can show a preview of them
16:15 Megaf yes, I have IPv6
16:16 sfan5 sr.ht's IPv6 is broken anyway
16:16 Megaf ok
16:16 Megaf will force v4 then
16:16 Megaf yep, no problems with v4
16:16 sfan5 most browsers downgrade if v6 doesn't work
16:17 shamoanjac agrecascino, save me from this nothing I've become
16:17 shamoanjac (wake me up)
16:17 sfan5 wake me up inside
16:17 shamoanjac can't wake up
16:17 agrecascino SAVE ME
16:17 shamoanjac GUI modding is such a mess
16:17 agrecascino shamoanjac, you're the banners mod guy right?
16:17 shamoanjac yes
16:18 shamoanjac now I have to add callbacks to the buttons
16:18 agrecascino i'm going to make some function for modifying power for factions
16:18 agrecascino so when someone places a faction banner, their faction gains power
16:19 Megaf sfan5: well, not lynx, w3m not epiphany as it seems
16:19 Megaf s/not/nor
16:20 sfan5 even curl does it
16:20 Megaf wget didn't
16:20 Megaf well, curl did it
16:21 Megaf actuall, I got a weird python thing frm https://sr.ht/hHLR.txt
16:21 Megaf aix: ^
16:22 Megaf aix: http://paste.debian.net/plain/786218
16:23 shangul left #minetest
16:26 T4im if you detect os on a server, please use p0f
16:31 lumidify joined #minetest
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16:37 Krock http://pastebin.com/raw/BkiZKQYk
16:37 Krock ^ Calinou
16:41 Calinou everypony uses the same mods :]
16:42 T4im homedecor doesn't turn up? O_o
16:44 namach joined #minetest
16:44 Krock looks like homedecor isn't installed there
16:44 Calinou nope, no homedecor
16:45 Calinou decorative mods are unlikely to land on my server, I don't think they actively increase creativity, also minetest_game has quite a bit of those now
16:45 Calinou there could be even more if I started my world with mgv7 instead of v6
16:45 Calinou (probably should have, but well)
16:45 Calinou there'd be dry grass biomes for example
16:45 agaran Calinou: crashed your server again..
16:46 Krock Any other server to analzye?
16:46 Krock *analyze
16:46 Calinou Krock: VE Creative? :P
16:46 Calinou the one with Dreambuilder
16:47 Krock "VanessaE's creative-building server. "?
16:48 Calinou VanessaE's Dreambuilder creative server.
16:48 Calinou this one
16:48 Calinou VanessaE's Dreambuilder creative-mode server.
16:48 Krock oh ok
16:48 mouboo left #minetest
16:50 aix i might make a forum post about my server
16:51 aix is there a naming convention?
16:51 Calinou me too
16:51 Calinou no
16:51 aix is there an accepted naming scheme?
16:52 aix that's just my way of asking "the fuck do i call it"
16:52 Calinou look on Servers forum, you probably can deduce a pattern
16:52 aix [version] desc (location) ?
16:53 Calinou maybe
16:53 Calinou I'd use [Mode] description [version]
16:53 Calinou Creative/Survival or such
16:54 aix "[Survival] Lightning Server [0.4.14-dev-2ba8ad1]" ?
16:54 Calinou just say 0.4.14-dev
16:54 Calinou no need to say exact commit :P
16:55 Krock http://pastebin.com/raw/ZMy16qv6 <-- Dreambuilder
16:55 Krock had to write the indenting function first.. styled the previous analysis manually
16:57 Krock That's based on the total servers. Could change it, so it multiplies the mod by the online players - would look a bit different in that case
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17:10 Krock aix, http://pastebin.com/raw/f28ATH2f
17:11 Hijiri anyone play minetest TNG?
17:11 Hijiri Is there a manual?
17:11 Hijiri also it seems like the woods are not in the wood group, since I can't make stick from them
17:12 Krock check for a wiki on Github or any other links in the readme
17:13 Krock or the forum topic
17:13 Hijiri I checked both
17:13 Hijiri I'll check again though, I didn't check that hard
17:14 Krock maybe there's no documentation and you'll have to ask LNJ for help
17:14 Hijiri that doesn't sound scalable
17:14 Krock huh? scalable?
17:15 Hijiri if every user has to ask LNJ for help
17:15 est31 joined #minetest
17:15 Krock yes, somewhen he will make a better documention about it
17:15 Krock just ask him
17:15 swift110-phone whats tng?
17:15 Tux[Qyou] joined #minetest
17:15 Krock the next game (logo looks prey much like the next generation)
17:15 Hijiri it's originally a fork of Minetest Next
17:16 swift110-phone star trek?
17:16 Krock *pretty much
17:16 Krock yes, star trek
17:16 swift110-phone ok cool
17:16 Krock but it's a minetest game
17:16 swift110-phone I was thinking of doing something like sim ant on minetest
17:20 * Krock wanz more servers zo analyz
17:21 Krock *to
17:21 sfan5 aren't 150 enough?
17:22 Krock sfan5, yes sure they're enough but nobody would be interested in them :<
17:23 * Krock feels like he made something cool and cries while sitting in a corner because he has noticed that no-one cares about it
17:24 T4im do you have an overall overview?
17:25 Krock T4im, something like this? http://i.imgur.com/FPvAuHi.png (made yesterday)
17:26 sfan5 Krock: you can barely read something on that, keep it to 15 mods
17:26 Krock sfan5, a shorter version of it can be found in the minetest wiki
17:27 Krock top 30, there
17:27 T4im ah, thanks, yea
17:27 sfan5 but it has more than 15
17:28 sfan5 still not good for readability
17:28 agaran would be nice if client have gamma adjustment..
17:28 Krock oh noes. too much information. call the mafia
17:28 * T4im already has a stiff neck from it though
17:28 Krock agaran, there's a gamma setting
17:28 agaran Krock: where?
17:28 Krock minetest.conf.example ?
17:29 Krock # display_gamma = 1.8
17:29 Krock however, even setting it to 1 (min value) does not really brighten it
17:29 agaran wow, thx
17:29 Krock !next
17:29 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
17:30 agaran problem is that on nvidia on linux I have everything much darker than on laptop with integrated intel..
17:30 Krock isn't that rather a screen issue?
17:31 agaran everything else looks normally as long as it does not use OpenGL..
17:35 Calinou sounds pretty strange
17:35 Calinou never had that issue
17:36 Calinou agaran: if you use shaders, you can edit the shader code to make everything brighter
17:39 agaran tried changing gamma.. if thats enough I am not going to fight more :)
17:40 agrecascino for some reason i just clipped into a block
17:40 Krock Oh yes, that happens suddenly from time to time
17:40 shamoanjac no it's because u r a wizerd agrecascino
17:40 agrecascino :^)
17:41 * Krock gives agrecascino a non-flying broom
17:43 shamoanjac the GUI API is terrible reeee
17:44 Calinou we should just have integrated libRocket or Nuklear
17:44 shamoanjac why isn't my function in minetest.register_on_receive_player_fields() not executing?
17:44 Calinou or even full Qt, but then people like hmmmm would go mad :D
17:44 shamoanjac pls no Nuclear
17:44 Calinou why not?
17:44 shamoanjac Nuclear is a guy who sometimes wanders on Rizon
17:45 shamoanjac shitposting about computers
17:45 shamoanjac stuff like "I own 73 data centers across the whole US, and have recently signed a contract with the DoD for a bit over 200 million dollars."
17:45 shamoanjac truly a shitpost master
17:46 aix Less common mods: (makes the server special) awh
17:46 Krock tell him to join #dontjoinitsatrap
17:46 shamoanjac he also likes to talk about performing sexual intercourse with felines
17:46 aix also
17:46 aix RE: http://pastebin.com/raw/f28ATH2f that's not all the mods
17:47 shamoanjac tbh a Qt integration wouldn't have been bad
17:47 shamoanjac is there a way to attach metadata to an open form?
17:47 aix should i call the topic "Lightning" or "Lightning Server"
17:47 nolsen Why are there alot of spanish speaking users on this android.
17:47 * nolsen builds a firewall
17:47 shamoanjac because Latin America
17:47 Calinou shamoanjac: I don't think we should judge software based on its developers
17:47 nolsen Now this firewall will get 10MB larger
17:48 Calinou judging it based on its community is understandable, but about individual people, not really...
17:48 aix Server: Player with the name "Colin5111" tried to connect from ::ffff:84.203.3.134 but it was disallowed for the following reason: You can have no more than two numbers in a row in your name. the new regexes are working swimmingly
17:48 nolsen #MakeMinetestEnglishAgain
17:48 shamoanjac Calinou, Nuclear is certainly not the guy behind Nuklear
17:48 shamoanjac I thought you'd have understood
17:48 Calinou ah
17:48 shamoanjac Nuclear is just someone unrelated who shitposts about fucking cats
17:49 aix shamoanjac: fucking cats or fucking cats?
17:49 Krock aix, oh right. these with 0% weren't added
17:49 shamoanjac fucking cats.
17:49 aix Krock: b-but 0% is impossible
17:49 aix is fucking an adjective or a verb
17:49 Krock aix, that means it's less than 1%
17:49 shamoanjac a verb
17:49 Krock b-but isn't a correct word anyway
17:50 nolsen !server [TUSS]
17:50 MinetestBot nolsen: [TUSS] The Ultimate Survival Server | minetest.nolsen.xyz | Clients: 2/15, 1/3 | Version: 0.4.14-dev / minetest | Ping: 165ms
17:50 Krock I'd say it's an adjective. It describes something
17:51 aix how do i make a banner with gimp?
17:51 aix i saw it on a topic once
17:51 aix okay forget the gimp part, what looks good in a banner?
17:52 shamoanjac contrast
17:52 shamoanjac blends nicely with the background of your website
17:52 Krock aix, please do Ctrl+F5 on the pastebin
17:53 Krock even 0% would be added but there's none o.o
17:53 aix awesome
17:54 shamoanjac does anyone know how to attach metadata to a formspec?
17:54 Krock something like ${variable_name} adds the metadata value
17:55 Krock to a text
17:55 shamoanjac the dollar symbol in Lua?
17:55 Krock yes
17:56 shamoanjac thanks, I'll try
17:56 Krock example: "label[1,1;2,1;Metadata of 'cookies' is ${cookies}]"  when you did meta:set_int("cookies", XX)
17:57 shamoanjac uhm
17:57 shamoanjac would that metadata be unique for each client?
17:57 Ataron joined #minetest
17:58 shamoanjac oh right I think I'm getting it
17:58 rubenwardy would running minetestmapper (c/c++) on a running world (minetestserver) cause problems?
17:58 Calinou I don't remember :/
17:58 sfan5 do you use sqlite?
17:59 Calinou I'm on SQLite currently :|
17:59 Krock well, the reading of the database could block some Minetest write actions
18:02 rubenwardy seems to work well
18:02 shamoanjac Krock, I don't understand that metadata thing and I find nothing in the Lua documentation
18:02 rubenwardy http://vps.rubenwardy.com/map_la.png
18:02 aix what's the preferred way of attaching images?
18:02 shamoanjac where does that meta:set_int() come from?
18:03 shamoanjac minetest.get_meta()?
18:03 Krock yes, from minetest.get_meta(pos)
18:04 shamoanjac okay so this won't work for what I need
18:04 shamoanjac 3     "image[2.1,0.8;6.09,3;4image goes here3]"
18:05 shamoanjac the red part is what I'm trying to keep updated with metadata
18:05 shamoanjac I'm using a "banner creator" block
18:05 shamoanjac which has attached a formspec
18:05 shamoanjac by clicking on buttons, tranformations (texture + color) are stacked and displayed
18:06 shamoanjac what I need is to stock this stack somewhere
18:07 shamoanjac if I use block metadata, then banner creation cannot be concurrent on the same block
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18:19 shamoanjac n-no one? ;_;
18:20 sfan5 shamoanjac: can't you use stuff like image[foo,bar;${metanamehere}]
18:20 sfan5 i remeber seeing that somewhere
18:21 shamoanjac yes but where does that metadata come from?
18:21 sfan5 you can use that in a formspec set directly on a node (e.g. chest)
18:21 shamoanjac the thing about editing the metadata of the node is that it would be shared across players
18:21 sfan5 then the metadata of that node will be considered
18:22 shamoanjac it's a solution in a way, but a quite bad one
18:24 shamoanjac also register_on_player_receive_fields takes a 3function(player, formname, fields)
18:24 shamoanjac I'm not sure how to get metadata of a node inside that function
18:24 shamoanjac since there is no pos argument
18:24 sfan5 been there done that
18:25 sfan5 shamoanjac: https://github.com/sfan5/minetest-​teaching/blob/master/init.lua#L129
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18:26 sfan5 basically i open the formspec manually and call it foobar_<x>_<y>_<z>
18:26 Krock there's also the way of storing the players and the node positions in a table when they opened the formspec
18:26 sfan5 then when i get it back i can parse the position from the name
18:29 KaadmY there's a function to set/get node metadata at a pos
18:29 KaadmY forget what it's called
18:30 KaadmY but it's used; you can look at the default mod's chests
18:30 KaadmY they use node metadata and also display it in the formspec
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18:32 aix https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=10&amp;t=15270 thoughts?
18:36 KaadmY aix: i replied
18:38 Krock KaadmY, rather use this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXMskKTw3Bc
18:38 aix =D
18:38 aix how do i compile with ncurses?
18:38 aix i've installed so much
18:39 Krock -DENABLE_NCURSES=1 ?
18:39 aix it's USE_NCURSES and it doesn't help
18:39 aix -- Could NOT find Ncursesw (missing:  CURSES_LIBRARY)
18:40 KaadmY Krock: nice video explaining how to generate obsidian
18:40 KaadmY aix: then you need ncurses
18:40 Krock it helps everywhere
18:40 aix how do i get ncurses
18:42 KaadmY https://www.gnu.org/software/ncurses/ncurses.html
18:42 KaadmY i think that's it
18:42 aix libncurses5-dev is already the newest version.
18:42 KaadmY hmm
18:42 KaadmY libncurses5 or whatever also?
18:42 KaadmY that's the libaries missing, not the headers i think
18:43 aix libncurses5 is already the newest version.
18:43 Krock aix, I another reply for you
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18:44 aix lol
18:44 aix if people visited it, there'd be no topic :P
18:44 KaadmY ;_;
18:45 KaadmY Void7: https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=10&amp;t=15270
18:45 KaadmY aix's server
18:45 swift110 joined #minetest
18:46 KaadmY try to watch Krocks vids, there's some really good clips from playing on there
18:46 aix hrm?
18:46 aix where
18:46 Krock huh?
18:46 aix ^
18:48 aix what kind of file is a library
18:49 aix do i need to compile this or do i just need the headers
18:49 aix https://sr.ht/MnQG.txt what
18:50 KaadmY no
18:51 KaadmY if it's a system package, ie. from apt-get on linux, it should just work out of the box
18:51 KaadmY you have to compile it into minetest though
18:51 KaadmY then run "make" in the same directory the CMakeCache.txt is in
18:51 KaadmY should be the current directory
18:51 aix okay well it says it's been found so let's do
18:54 aix https://sr.ht/6rLb.txt ...
18:55 davisonio joined #minetest
18:56 KaadmY can't find the "s" library..
18:56 KaadmY never heard of it
18:57 KaadmY huh
18:57 KaadmY i have it
18:57 KaadmY no idea what it's for
18:58 aix what do i put there?
18:59 Krock the real path to that .so file or however it is called on linux
18:59 aix https://sr.ht/4TuE.txt -.-
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19:00 Ethernity hello
19:00 Krock Hello
19:01 Ethernity I am wondering how to start the development process. There are a great number of mods, so where do I start the process?
19:01 KaadmY wow
19:01 KaadmY wow
19:01 KaadmY aix: you have about 30 libs
19:01 KaadmY i have 1500
19:01 aix oh
19:01 aix they're in
19:01 aix /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu
19:01 KaadmY heh
19:02 KaadmY yes
19:02 aix oh there's a fuckton in there
19:02 Ethernity And if i used arch linux would that be easier than a debian based distro?
19:02 KaadmY those are the system libs
19:02 Krock Ethernity, maybe you want to read much: http://dev.minetest.net/Intro
19:02 aix okat time to make
19:02 KaadmY Ethernity: arch is likely more difficult
19:03 Ethernity I used Arch in the past, but debian usually it more straight forward imo
19:03 Krock Ethernity, but the best way to learn is always the one with experiments. So copy a mod and extend it with some features. (should be a simple one to start with)
19:04 Ethernity And I understand they use Lua, but I prefer to use something more efficient
19:05 Krock then get LuaJIT, it's almost as efficient as C++
19:08 aix basic machines is bugged
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19:15 Ethernity Interesting
19:16 Ethernity Has anyone played Minetest TNG by any chance?
19:17 aix most mods don't even do "if not player then return end"
19:17 Krock Got the same question to hours ago, Ethernity. Looks like you must contact LNJ to get help
19:17 aix which means some commands crash in terminal mode
19:24 Ethernity Are you primarily a dev or player Krock?
19:24 Krock an indev player :<
19:25 Krock Sometimes I play, sometimes I develop, sometimes I just watch the people chatting with each other
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19:29 Ethernity Curious, why doesn't the main Minetest have any ping\lag numbers?
19:30 Ethernity For server listing
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19:32 Megaf paper made binary calculator! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siawhQBRC8I
19:32 Megaf !title
19:32 MinetestBot Megaf: Paper Calculator - Numberphile - YouTube
19:32 Megaf ElectronLibre: ^
19:36 Krock I want a 8bit adder on paper :)
19:36 ElectronLibre That'd be nice to have
19:36 Krock A1 paper :3
19:39 rubenwardy any nginx gurus here? This doesn't work: https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/785328c​4e40671847ccb695006e486aa#file-default-L31
19:40 aix which part
19:40 aix try using alias on line 43
19:40 rubenwardy Trying to get vps.rubenwardy.com/ to go to /home/a/public_http, except for vps.rubenwardy.com/minetest/* which goes to /home/b/public_http
19:41 aix yeah, use alias
19:41 rubenwardy but minetest/ gets 404
19:41 rubenwardy ok
19:41 rubenwardy thank
19:41 aix and maybe put the part about 404 last
19:41 aix and the minetest location first
19:45 sfan5 rubenwardy: that try_files thing is pretty useless imo
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19:52 aix is it possible to sort servers by the user count?
19:52 Megaf I'm testing with HHVM myself
19:52 Megaf I first started using it as PHP mod on Lighttpd, then with nginx, now I'm testing running it standalone
19:53 Megaf forum.casemodbr.org is HHVM standalone
19:53 davisonio joined #minetest
19:53 Megaf pretty happy the the resources use by HHVM
19:58 aix !server UNIX
19:58 MinetestBot aix: Lightning (UNIX geeks) | tau.aix.ovh | Clients: 0/32, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.14-dev / lightning | Ping: 9ms
19:59 aix okay
19:59 Megaf hm
19:59 aix renaming it to something i'd actually click
19:59 Megaf I like the name
19:59 * Megaf will check it out
19:59 aix It attracts the right kind of audience
19:59 aix I think
20:00 Megaf well, on Megaf Server we have Electronic Engineers, Computer Engineers and Mechanical Engineers
20:00 Megaf and a bunch of 34+ years old people
20:00 Megaf I'm 29
20:00 aix I'm uhh
20:00 aix less than that
20:00 Megaf and I'm the computer engineer
20:00 Megaf well, almost
20:00 aix I don't get is
20:00 aix is that a minetest title
20:01 aix or an actual real life thing
20:01 Megaf I don't get what you don't get
20:01 aix i'd say profession but in most cases it's just a hobby
20:01 aix lol
20:01 aix nevermind
20:01 Megaf connecting by the way
20:03 Ethernity HHVM may be useful, but I think it's time to move to standard Compiled modules or something
20:04 Ethernity The web software should be able to perform basic functions that PHP or Javascript server side is doing.
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20:29 MinetestBot [git] Jeija -> Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons: Fix bug introduced in previous commit that broke all logic blocks 778ee42 https://git.io/v6eMw (2016-07-31T22:26:33+02:00)
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20:36 shamoanjac is there a way to check whether an ObjectRef is a player?
20:36 T4im * `is_player()`: returns true for players, false otherwise
20:37 shamoanjac welp, looks like the wiki needs an update
20:37 shamoanjac thanks
20:38 shamoanjac and no way to get the player name?
20:38 shamoanjac can't find it
20:38 shamoanjac or is it in get_properties()?
20:38 davisonio joined #minetest
20:38 LNJ2GO left #minetest
20:39 shamoanjac ah right there's get_player_name
20:39 mdiehl1 joined #minetest
20:43 shamoanjac oh good god
20:44 shamoanjac properties are listed as methods
20:49 swift110 joined #minetest
20:53 theTroy joined #minetest
20:53 theTroy joined #minetest
20:55 paramat joined #minetest
20:56 paramat Calinou are you a forum mod? please can you sticky this? https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=47&amp;t=15272
20:58 Calinou paramat: done
20:58 paramat thanks
21:00 swift110 joined #minetest
21:01 agrecascino how would i go about increasing the speed of my minetest server
21:08 TGminer joined #minetest
21:13 Amaz joined #minetest
21:24 rubenwardy aix, sfan5: that worked. http://vps.rubenwardy.com/minetest/map_la.png
21:25 aix nice map
21:25 rubenwardy the try_files was just from the example code given
21:27 Calinou agrecascino: https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=10&amp;t=1825
21:27 nolsen !mod factions
21:27 MinetestBot nolsen: Factions (sapier&#39;s) [factions] by sapier - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=5919
21:27 agrecascino no offense, but minetest servers run really slow
21:28 nolsen !server [T
21:28 MinetestBot nolsen: LEGO Creative -=[TPS]=- The Pixel Shadow | servers.minetest.tv:30005 | Clients: 13/75, 13/24 | Version: 0.4.14-dev / tps_lego | Ping: 125ms
21:28 nolsen er
21:28 nolsen !server [TUSS]
21:28 MinetestBot nolsen: [TUSS] The Ultimate Survival Server | minetest.nolsen.xyz | Clients: 0/15, 0/3 | Version: 0.4.14-dev / minetest | Ping: 156ms
21:28 nolsen 156ms
21:28 nolsen y so high
21:28 Calinou agrecascino: make sure you don't use mods that are known to be slow, also optimize your settings and get better hardware if possible :P
21:29 nolsen Calinou: There needs to be a guide on what to set the optimization settings to efficiently use the hardware.
21:29 nolsen Like what should I set for a dual core xeon processor, with 2GB of RAM, 5TB bandwidth, and 300Mbps internet speed.
21:29 Volkj joined #minetest
21:30 nolsen 2 processors.
21:30 nolsen not 2 cores
21:30 agrecascino i have a 6 core xeon with 32gbs and it still runs slow
21:30 nolsen agrecascino: What is the bandwidth speed?
21:30 agrecascino gigabit
21:30 nolsen Then it might be minetest.
21:31 Lunatrius joined #minetest
21:35 agrecascino how would i cache results in  my factions mod
21:36 Samson1 joined #minetest
21:37 rubenwardy what are you making, agrecascino?
21:37 nolsen The death star.
21:37 nolsen !mod death star
21:37 MinetestBot nolsen: Could not find anything.
21:37 nolsen aw
21:37 nolsen No such mod
21:37 agrecascino a factions mod
21:37 nolsen someone pls make, I want to be able to blow up worlds.
21:37 agrecascino basically a fork of sapiers to add fun mechanics
21:38 rubenwardy ctf_pvp_engine was originally designed to make city vs city gameplay possible - people make bases and forts, and capture them
21:38 Calinou sapier's mods are not known to be lightweight :)
21:39 rubenwardy but I never got around to making all the features
21:39 aix how exactly do i make an automated smelter with the tech mods?
21:39 aix i tried something but it just spews out ores before they're cooked
21:40 nolsen !mod irc
21:40 MinetestBot nolsen: Internet Relay Chat [irc] by kaeza - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=3905
21:40 swift110 joined #minetest
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21:42 swift110 joined #minetest
21:43 DMackey joined #minetest
21:44 nolsen !mod email
21:44 MinetestBot nolsen: Email [email] - Send email like messages by rubenwardy - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=13754
21:44 shamoanjac Minetest API feels like trench war
21:44 shamoanjac every step costs hundreds of lives
21:45 agrecascino shamoanjac, truly
21:45 agrecascino though more like hundreds of ticks
21:45 shamoanjac this GUI thing is just horrible
21:46 agrecascino c++ api when?
21:46 shamoanjac when you create buttons you can't just give them a callback function
21:46 shamoanjac nooo
21:46 shamoanjac you have to register a global callback that will get called on every GUI interaction ever
21:46 jojoa1997 joined #minetest
21:46 shamoanjac and then have a shitton of if elseif to determine which button has been pressed
21:48 shamoanjac and don't expect to get proper arguments for callbacks
21:48 nolsen Such a shame, the IRC mod doesn't use SSL.
21:48 shamoanjac also no GUI state
21:48 shamoanjac REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
21:49 shamoanjac 4I WANT A GUI STATE
21:49 agrecascino nolsen, if you can connect to an irc server using minetest
21:49 shamoanjac 4NOT EXTERNAL METADATA
21:49 agrecascino couldn't you use dcc to stream data to the client?
21:50 swift110 joined #minetest
21:50 rubenwardy shamoanjac, formspecs are easily the worst part
21:50 rubenwardy but:
21:50 rubenwardy !mod smartfs
21:50 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Could not find anything.
21:50 swift110 joined #minetest
21:50 rubenwardy !mod smart formspec
21:50 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Smart Formspecs by rubenwardy - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=7553
21:50 rubenwardy and
21:50 rubenwardy !mod formpec
21:50 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Could not find anything.
21:51 rubenwardy !mod [formpsec]
21:51 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Could not find anything.
21:51 rubenwardy !mod [formpsec]
21:51 rubenwardy !mod [formpsecs]
21:51 shamoanjac please find
21:51 rubenwardy !mod [formpsecs]
21:51 MinetestBot rubenwardy: Could not find anything.
21:51 Void7 joined #minetest
21:51 agrecascino should i cache results from my testing function for my callback?
21:51 shamoanjac please tell me there is a sane GUI mod
21:51 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=9&amp;t=15244
21:51 shamoanjac please tell me there is light at the end of the tunnel
21:51 rubenwardy see either of those links, shamoanjac
21:52 shamoanjac thanks for putting hope back in my life rubenwardy
21:52 rubenwardy smartfs is more developed
21:52 rubenwardy but formspec framework has a slightly nicer creation api
21:53 rubenwardy formspec framework: Image({x=0,y=0,w=1,h=1,src="bleh.png"}) vs formspec: state:image(0, 0, 1, 1, "bleh.png")
21:54 rubenwardy but formspec framework doesn't have bindings for buttons
21:55 rubenwardy with smartfs you can do  button:bind(function()     print("bleh") end)
21:55 agrecascino no but seriously how should i optimize my mod
21:55 est31 joined #minetest
21:55 aix is there a mod that can temporarile disable a nametag of a player?
21:55 rubenwardy agrecascino: try the mod profiler
21:55 shamoanjac well I definitely need bindings so the choice is clear
21:55 paramat joined #minetest
21:56 Hijiri shamoanjac: when you use smartfs note this bug: https://github.com/minetest-mods/smartfs/issues/10
21:56 Hijiri you can work around it with minetest.after
21:56 shamoanjac thanks
21:57 shamoanjac is the smartfs.lua enough on its own?
21:57 rubenwardy yes
21:58 rubenwardy you can include only the smartfs file in your mod
21:58 shamoanjac cool
21:58 shamoanjac don't you have a license?
21:58 rubenwardy it's WTFPL
21:59 shamoanjac oh right I've just seen it
21:59 shamoanjac coo
21:59 rubenwardy added license: https://github.com/minetest-mods​/smartfs/blob/master/smartfs.lua
22:02 agrecascino rubenwardy, how do i enable the mod profiler
22:03 rubenwardy profiler.load = true             I think
22:03 agrecascino put this in the world.mt?
22:04 rubenwardy minetest.conf
22:04 rubenwardy usage here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4245
22:07 nolsen Apparently, on my server, cotton and wheat aren't growing :\
22:07 nolsen according to Hijiri
22:26 DMackey joined #minetest
22:28 agrecascino what does server_dedicated do?
22:30 Megaf joined #minetest
22:30 Amaz left #minetest
22:33 Megaf So, why do you use Linux?
22:34 Megaf Why not OS X, DragonFly or MorphOS
22:34 agrecascino because drivers
22:42 Megaf I see
22:43 Megaf I use it because of the software available, drivers and flexibility
22:43 Megaf and because it is reasonbly stable and efficient
22:46 agrecascino there's actually a lot you can do with a 16gb msata ssd
22:47 agrecascino will there ever be clientside lua in minetest
22:47 agrecascino that servers can deliver to client?
22:47 est31 its a goal
22:47 est31 but dunno when it will be actually implemented :)=
22:47 agrecascino i was thinking of ideas for that
22:47 agrecascino like a subset that you can use on clients
22:48 agrecascino and you can make a function run clientside by adding the 'clientside' identifier to it
22:48 agrecascino and using something like a future for return values
22:48 est31 won't be that easy
22:48 est31 future support in lua is very bad
22:49 agrecascino c++ api when?
22:49 agrecascino you know what
22:49 est31 I mean its possible but it has such a weak type system
22:49 agrecascino we need interpreted c++
22:51 Void7 joined #minetest
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22:54 swift110 joined #minetest
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22:55 swift110 joined #minetest
22:56 octacian What do you guys think about Minetest and Twitter?
22:57 KaadmY octacian: i'm not on twitter personally, but i think it might get attention then
22:58 octacian The issue is, someone already has @Minetest, and if we want to get it back celeron55 has to apply at
22:58 octacian https://support.twitter.com/forms/impersonation
22:59 est31 the @Minetest account was registered before even c55 had the idea to write minetest
22:59 est31 or idk, when did he have the idea
22:59 nolsen est31: Or did he?
22:59 nolsen It might be an outside job.
22:59 octacian It's not being used by the account owner.
23:00 est31 The initial commit in the repo is november 2010
23:00 octacian Which means that it would likely at least get the attention of Twitter and maybe the account owner.
23:00 est31 he has worked on it earlier as well, so dont know when he actually started it and chose the name
23:00 octacian Well, it was originally minetest-c55, so it might have been around for a while before.
23:01 est31 well there are some semi official twitter accounts of minetest around
23:02 octacian Yeah, but it's not @Minetest lol.
23:02 octacian See my forums post https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=3&amp;t=15190 (I'm endev15 on the forums)
23:02 est31 minetest doesnt have a clear border of "officiality"
23:03 octacian still
23:03 octacian If we got something more "official" going on, such as a twitter account, I think a lot more people would notice MT.
23:04 octacian Anyways, I'll be back in a while. If/when celeron55 comes on IRC, this might be worth mentioning...
23:04 est31 maybe
23:04 est31 he rarely joins this channel, mostly joins the #minetest-dev one
23:05 octacian OK, I'll check there when I get back.
23:06 octacian Oh, he's there right now. Guess I'll have to wait though lol
23:06 est31 also, if you want to maintain that account, we need to establish a way to get hold over it when you dont have fun tweeting with it anymore
23:06 est31 because twitter is full with semi official minetest accounts :)
23:08 est31 https://twitter.com/Minetest_c55
23:09 nolsen Why not just create @MinetestOfficial
23:09 est31 there was this character limit thing?
23:10 est31 of it being one character too wide
23:11 agrecascino twitter is lame
23:11 GunshipPenguin joined #minetest
23:11 agrecascino social networking is lame
23:11 est31 O.o
23:11 est31 found this project thanks to twitter http://minetestedu.com/
23:11 est31 nice
23:12 agrecascino i mean
23:12 agrecascino it makes more sense then minecraftedu
23:12 est31 doesnt have more than a website though, it seems
23:12 est31 however, its a nice website thats good
23:13 est31 hrmm maybe its this one project I've heard of...
23:13 est31 that one oldcoder was involved in
23:18 OldCoder Hi
23:18 * OldCoder is resting but here later
23:22 shamoanjac as Richard Stallman (PBUH) once said, teaching kids to use proprietary software is like teaching them to smoke.
23:22 shamoanjac GNU'ran 5.9
23:23 shamoanjac I remember the old days of minetest-c55
23:23 shamoanjac the old days of 0.3
23:23 nolsen shamoanjac: Not all proprietary is bad.
23:23 shamoanjac proprietary is bad by definition
23:24 shamoanjac since it deprives the user from freedom
23:24 nolsen Some things are meant to be close-source.
23:24 shamoanjac like what?
23:24 nolsen freedom? what are you? anarchist?
23:24 shamoanjac yes
23:24 nolsen Figures.
23:24 shamoanjac ??
23:24 nolsen Open-source extremist...
23:24 shamoanjac *Free Software
23:25 nolsen It's open-source.
23:25 shamoanjac the term Open Source is misleading
23:25 nolsen shamoanjac: Have you been smoking pot lately?
23:26 shamoanjac I don't do drugs other than alcohol, and even alcohol is one I haven't taken for weeks
23:26 nolsen Well, you are acting high.
23:26 shamoanjac how so?
23:26 nolsen Because open-source is freedom enough.
23:26 shamoanjac you don't understand it
23:26 nolsen A typical user doesn't want to "read the source code"
23:26 shamoanjac hang on
23:27 nolsen A typical user doesn't want to learn a programming language just to use his/her computer.
23:27 shamoanjac https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/o​pen-source-misses-the-point.html
23:27 nolsen lo gnu
23:27 nolsen lol gnu
23:27 shamoanjac that most of the population doesn't want or need to use a right is certainly not a reason to deprive the rest from exercising that same right
23:28 nolsen Also, you can't sell software if your code is open source.
23:28 shamoanjac yes, you can
23:28 nolsen No you can't, because they can steal the code, change it, and sell it for themselves.
23:28 nolsen make you loose profit.
23:28 shamoanjac they're not stealing it
23:28 nolsen and taking away your work.
23:28 nolsen Yes they are.
23:28 shamoanjac that's not what "stealing" means
23:29 nolsen They stold their years of work.
23:29 shamoanjac or are you one of those people who wouldn't download a car?
23:29 shamoanjac they didn't, you didn't loose anything
23:29 nolsen yes you did, you lost profit.
23:30 nolsen Because people will be buying their code, and not yours.
23:30 shamoanjac it's like someone put that into your head and you just repeat it like a mantra
23:30 shamoanjac why not mine?
23:30 nolsen so all the work you put in, was for nothingl.
23:30 est31 I dont know, its politically even good to have proprietary software
23:30 shamoanjac hell, you can just take their modifications and sell them yourself
23:30 est31 think of github for example, they demand money from closed source projects
23:30 shamoanjac that's what free software is about
23:30 est31 but give access to open source projects for free
23:30 est31 so, they promote open source projects
23:30 shamoanjac not that I care much about the financial aspect of it since I'm an Anarchist
23:31 est31 if you start a closed source project, you need to pay them money so you are less likely to start one
23:31 est31 but more likely to open the source
23:31 est31 if github were open source, the people could just grab it and install it on their servers
23:31 est31 for free
23:31 nolsen shamoanjac: Well people want to make a living by creating application and selling it.
23:31 nolsen But open source, takes that away.
23:31 est31 so, github being proprietary helps open source as a whole
23:32 shamoanjac people want to make a living by buying and selling slaves
23:32 shamoanjac but the declaration of Human Rights takes that away
23:32 nolsen est31: Don't bother arguing with these kinds of people.
23:32 shamoanjac what a shame
23:32 nolsen These are FSF extremists.
23:32 nolsen or open source extremisits.
23:32 shamoanjac I prefer the term "radical"
23:32 nolsen no, radical open source extremisits.
23:32 shamoanjac "extremists" implies there is linearity
23:33 nolsen shamoanjac: I question your IQ.
23:33 shamoanjac "radical" comes from the latin "radica", which means "root"
23:33 shamoanjac chances are it's somewhere between 120 and 135
23:34 nolsen But right now, it defines as "Departing markedly from the usual or customary; extreme: radical opinions on education."
23:34 nolsen Your views are extreme
23:34 shamoanjac extreme implies an arbitrary linear scale
23:34 OldCoder Ahem
23:34 shamoanjac I could say you're extremely conformist
23:34 shamoanjac an extremist of the status quo
23:34 est31 shamoanjac, we cant have universal basic income and other utopia goodies just yet, because we need humans to work
23:34 shamoanjac based on my own linear scale
23:35 OldCoder Hello
23:35 nolsen It's like islam, they do not teach peace.
23:35 est31 and money is a good tool to make them work
23:35 shamoanjac it's not
23:35 OldCoder Folks...
23:35 shamoanjac and it has been proven not to be
23:35 OldCoder This is not #Islam-Trump-FOSS-God-Satan-Wars
23:35 est31 OldCoder, you want to kick shamoanjac?
23:35 est31 go on :)
23:35 betterthanyou710 lol
23:35 shamoanjac sorry OldCoder, I just see people shitting on the very thing that makes this channel even possible
23:35 * OldCoder prefers to make the point
23:35 betterthanyou710 ill grab my popcorn
23:35 OldCoder shamoanjac, can you
23:35 OldCoder perhaps not use profanity
23:35 nolsen A child that's op? :o
23:36 OldCoder in an all-ages channel?
23:36 est31 not that i knew
23:36 OldCoder /join #chill perhaps
23:36 OldCoder Wait, reading up
23:36 est31 nolsen, OldCoder is no child
23:36 OldCoder This channel is not like #
23:36 OldCoder Heh
23:36 OldCoder Eh
23:36 nolsen est31: He is overcoder
23:36 betterthanyou710 lol yeah
23:36 * OldCoder gets up from rocking chair
23:36 nolsen which is...16 I think
23:36 OldCoder Where is the Ben-Gay
23:36 OldCoder Look...
23:37 OldCoder This is not #minetest-dev
23:37 OldCoder O_O
23:37 betterthanyou710 lol nolsen you have no idea
23:37 OldCoder This is a more open channel
23:37 OldCoder Which is going to abide by a few rules regardless
23:37 OldCoder Those rules include
23:37 est31 there is offtopic discussion happening on this channel
23:37 OldCoder 1) Safe For Work
23:37 betterthanyou710 also OC when you are done with this please check our IRC PM
23:37 OldCoder Right
23:37 OldCoder betterthanyou710, wait
23:37 OldCoder Those rules include
23:37 OldCoder 1) Safe For Work
23:37 betterthanyou710 kk
23:37 OldCoder 2) Bash Ideas Not People
23:37 OldCoder 3) Be Helpful If Possible
23:38 OldCoder Those 3 are enough for today
23:38 OldCoder shamoanjac and others are invited to read the list
23:38 betterthanyou710 your a OP here?
23:38 OldCoder Is the list acceptable?
23:38 OldCoder betterthanyou710, for four years
23:38 betterthanyou710 i didnt know
23:38 betterthanyou710 lol
23:38 betterthanyou710 never looked
23:38 nolsen OldCoder: Good luck arguing with a open source extreminist.
23:38 OldCoder I told you the Landmine story
23:38 shamoanjac I broke none of these rules afaik, but I'm ok
23:38 betterthanyou710 yeah
23:38 betterthanyou710 but i thought that was landmine
23:38 est31 OldCoder, you made shamoanjac shut up what did you do :)
23:38 OldCoder nolsen, the discussion is not about Open Source
23:38 OldCoder est31, Hush please
23:38 OldCoder "made shut up" is not respectful
23:38 est31 without using your magic powers :=
23:39 betterthanyou710 i still need to check up on landmine
23:39 OldCoder betterthanyou710, hush too please
23:39 OldCoder PM for answers
23:39 OldCoder Now, let us enjoy
23:39 OldCoder each other
23:39 OldCoder each other's company *
23:39 nolsen Fascist much?
23:39 OldCoder Hm?
23:39 nolsen was kicked by OldCoder: nolsen
23:39 nolsen joined #minetest
23:40 OldCoder nolsen, Hi
23:40 nolsen How did you disable my autojoin on kick?
23:40 OldCoder Long time no see
23:40 OldCoder There is nothing "Fascist" about civility rules, Son
23:40 OldCoder This is an open channel, but it is all ages
23:40 nolsen OldCoder: You are telling everyone to shut up.
23:40 OldCoder And civility is expected
23:40 OldCoder Hush is not shut up. And it was two people. Both of whom I am on good terms with.
23:41 OldCoder You are hardly one to judge
23:41 OldCoder Are we done here?
23:41 nolsen But, freedom isn't free.
23:41 OldCoder nolsen, there are #philosophy channels
23:41 OldCoder for such points
23:41 est31 btw these are the official rules of this channel http://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules
23:41 est31 see topic
23:41 est31 ~topic
23:41 ShadowBot est31: Welcome to #minetest, official Minetest channel | Latest version: 0.4.14 (2016-05-15) | Responses may take a while, be patient | Rules: http://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: http://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: http://irc.minetest.net/minetest/
23:41 OldCoder est31, thank you
23:42 nolsen That topic has done 9/11
23:42 OldCoder Hm?
23:42 nolsen This is all of an inside job/
23:42 betterthanyou710 wow
23:42 nolsen Jet fuel can't melt hats.
23:42 * OldCoder is not sure of the connection
23:44 nolsen Funny, a child is acting like an adult, hard to see them nowdays.
23:44 nolsen Oh, you are not overcoder.
23:44 betterthanyou710 nolson do you know his actual age?
23:44 nolsen betterthanyou710: uhh
23:44 nolsen no
23:44 nolsen I'm guessing 12.
23:44 nolsen 12 IS OLD ENOUGH FOR IRC
23:44 betterthanyou710 guessing
23:44 betterthanyou710 not knowing
23:45 betterthanyou710 if you knew his age you would understand that hes smarter then you
23:45 betterthanyou710 not that age means wisdom
23:45 betterthanyou710 but hes very wise :P
23:46 nolsen hm, he went quiet now
23:46 betterthanyou710 naw
23:46 betterthanyou710 PMing me
23:46 rubenwardy this isn't #minetest-project
23:47 betterthanyou710 hey ruben
23:47 betterthanyou710 long time no see
23:47 rubenwardy profanity is not disallowed in this channel
23:47 rubenwardy http://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules
23:47 Guest52876 joined #minetest
23:47 Guest52876 did someone defend proprietary software here?
23:47 Guest52876 allow me to tell you why this is wrong
23:47 Guest52876 it is wrong
23:48 shamoanjac wow then I truly broke no rule
23:48 shamoanjac though it doesn't matter much
23:48 nolsen Financially, it is wrong.
23:48 Guest52876 it is wrong in every aspect
23:48 Guest52876 morally
23:48 nolsen But if you are selling free software, then it's fine.
23:48 Guest52876 ethically
23:48 nolsen Guest52876: Okay troll,.
23:48 nolsen whatever.
23:48 shamoanjac more like rms52876 amirite? kek
23:49 Guest52876 only if you distribute the source code and forbid people from not doing so
23:49 Guest52876 nolsen, no troll, evangelist
23:49 T4im left #minetest
23:49 OldCoder Hello again
23:50 Guest52876 I'm actually convinced that not using GNU GPL is immoral
23:50 OldCoder nolsen, I'm working and also trying to help in other threads
23:50 OldCoder Discussion of FOSS licenses is to follow the rules I outlined please
23:50 Guest52876 which are...?
23:51 OldCoder Safe For Work. Bash Ideas Not People. Be Helpful If Possible.
23:51 est31 http://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules
23:51 est31 these are the rules
23:51 est31 not what OldCoder says
23:51 OldCoder Some people would add Assume Good Intentions.
23:51 shamoanjac SFW, no ad hominem and not being uncool
23:51 shamoanjac :^)
23:51 nolsen OldCoder: You keep forgetting, these are open source extreminsts, they don't use logic, they bash their ideas onto people.
23:51 Guest52876 okay, I can live with that
23:51 OldCoder est31, thank you for your helpful interference, but the civility rules are implied and reasonable
23:51 est31 (although he has op privs so prepare to be kicked if you do something he doesnt like :))
23:51 Guest52876 no
23:51 Guest52876 it's not extremism, it's conviction
23:51 nolsen est31: What if you have autojoin on kick on?
23:51 OldCoder No Ad Hominem is #2
23:52 OldCoder So, one of you is a Stallman type and the other is Gates as opposed to Raymond?
23:52 OldCoder Is this related to Minetest in some way?
23:53 OldCoder FWIW The kids here used to write to Stallman to poke fun at him. Sometimes he wrote back :-)
23:53 OldCoder
23:53 OldCoder You know, when such discussions take place, the important thing to do is...
23:53 shamoanjac I made a joke which was related to both Minetest and Stallman, apparently some triggers were pulled :)
23:54 OldCoder determine if there is a specific, articulable, point, that people disagree on
23:54 nolsen Oh boy.
23:54 nolsen shamoanjac is an SJW.
23:54 OldCoder shamoanjac, fine
23:54 cyber-gaucho joined #minetest
23:54 OldCoder No Ad Hominem please
23:54 OldCoder cyber-gaucho your 1st nick was better
23:54 aaaaa I use this one on freenode
23:54 OldCoder Up to you
23:54 shamoanjac sorry gaucho you're busted
23:54 shamoanjac we know your Rizon identity
23:55 aaaaa shh
23:55 * OldCoder is simply interested in nicknames
23:55 shamoanjac prepare to get d0xx3d
23:55 aaaaa oh no!
23:55 OldCoder Oh, you are l33t ?
23:55 betterthanyou710 lol
23:55 aaaaa really, though, it surprises me that someone here would defend closed source
23:55 betterthanyou710 the cringe hurts
23:55 bbbbb I defend close source...
23:55 bbbbb closed*
23:55 OldCoder Fine so far
23:55 aaaaa I haven't been in the conversation before, but really
23:55 shamoanjac yes, I use Kali Linux in a VM in Windows 10
23:55 OldCoder <a> I like Open Source <b> I dislike it
23:55 OldCoder Done
23:56 shamoanjac I use the dark theme in Google Chrome when debugging my CSS c0d3
23:56 bbbbb OldCoder: Now you started a flame war.
23:56 OldCoder Hm?
23:56 aaaaa the other game got so much stuff done that in the end was bad for the users just because of that
23:56 aaaaa really, no mod api, lack of extensibility... that's because it is closed source
23:57 OldCoder rubenwardy, let us say that profanity is inadvisable depending on context
23:57 bbbbb Closed source is fine when you are selling something.
23:57 OldCoder Scroll up, incivility is not allowed
23:57 bbbbb Because they can't steal your code when it's closed source.
23:57 OldCoder Define "fine". What is the point of disagreement?
23:57 aaaaa bbbbb, open source can be used for selling, it's the same
23:57 bbbbb Thus, preventing profit to be lost.
23:57 OldCoder Is the discussion about which is more ethically correct?
23:57 OldCoder Or more profitable?
23:57 aaaaa and what is there to steal when it's just a set of instructions?
23:57 shamoanjac actually stealing the code is only possible on closed source
23:57 bbbbb aaaaa: No it isn't, someone can buy your code, then steal it, then make a profit on it.
23:57 OldCoder Determine what the point of disagreement is?
23:57 bbbbb then you loose your profit,
23:58 shamoanjac 3>someone can buy your code, then steal it
23:58 aaaaa you don't!!!
23:58 bbbbb then take it.
23:58 shamoanjac kinda strange imo
23:58 aaaaa you just not-get the money
23:58 bbbbb aaaaa: People can.
23:58 aaaaa it's not the same as stealing, it's just an iteration of bytes in a computer
23:58 OldCoder Hm
23:58 Void7 you can just make it open-source and sell precompiled binaries.
23:58 shamoanjac and support
23:58 OldCoder Could one of you be FakeStallman and another be FakeGates?
23:58 aaaaa ^
23:58 bbbbb Void7: Then nobody would buy it.
23:58 shamoanjac and access to servers
23:58 OldCoder Easier to follow, then
23:59 OldCoder FakeRMS, thank you
23:59 nolsen FSF is gibberish,
23:59 nolsen gnu is gibberish.
23:59 FakeRMS no!!!
23:59 OldCoder nolsen, that is noise
23:59 TrueAndOnlyRMS Hello my children
23:59 FakeRMS it's not!
23:59 OldCoder State specifics
23:59 Void7 nolsen: then why do pre-compiled binaries exist?
23:59 nolsen Void7: To save time from compiling.
23:59 FakeRMS really, they are so adamant because it is true, most modern computing is a jail
23:59 Void7 then you can sell them..
23:59 nolsen But if the source code is free, then they can save money by compiling it.
23:59 FakeRMS data mining galore
23:59 nolsen source code is open*
23:59 Void7 yes
23:59 TrueAndOnlyRMS modern computing is going back to the 70's

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