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IRC log for #minetest, 2016-07-16

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Time Nick Message
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09:14 Megaf Good morning folks!
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09:42 Krock moin, Megaf
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09:44 Megaf That's interesting, if I build Minetest without curl it will show download seed when loading media
09:44 Megaf if I build with curl it doesnt
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10:52 everamzah Krock: https://github.com/everamzah/dea​th_kick/blob/master/init.lua#L31 <-- no?
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11:04 everamzah *scratches head*
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11:21 Krock oh
11:21 Krock haven't seen that part in the forum post, everamzah
11:21 everamzah you're right tho, it's not exactly how i imagined it
11:23 Krock can a player even die again after he hasn't respawned? I doubt it
11:24 everamzah of course, have you never come back from being AFK and seen a line of "You died." all across the screen, so much so that you can't scroll bar far enough to read prior chat?
11:24 everamzah that was the impetus, really
11:24 everamzah probably the hunger mod repeatedly subtracting HP
11:24 Volkj everamzah: that
11:24 everamzah but if you're HP is 0, and you subtract more HP, you die even while dead
11:24 everamzah ha
11:24 Volkj https://github.com/BlockMen/hunger/pull/10
11:25 everamzah oh ok, thx
11:26 everamzah well i use this oddity (subtracting HP from dead player) to make a counter to kick if they don't respawn.  weird haha
11:26 everamzah thanks again for that link, Volkj
11:26 Volkj there's a pull request in minetest to check if a player has hp before dealing damages
11:26 everamzah ohh
11:27 everamzah full disclosure, i just wanted to release a mod called "Death Kick"
11:27 Volkj https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4127
11:28 Volkj the list of "player has dead for..." becomes spammy in the chat
11:29 Volkj not that a death kick mod is useless, think about a player that wants to spam chat in creative ways
11:29 everamzah indeed
11:29 everamzah i mean, it is very spammy for me because i nearly always use the hunger mod
11:29 everamzah and a death kick is also useful for players who die, hide their app, and forget about it for 12 hours
11:30 Volkj i see it in the server i'm currently also
11:30 Volkj wondering if it's possible to ban a player after it got kicked x times
11:30 everamzah i just figured i'd use an ondie counter instead of traditional afk "has player pressed a key lately" method
11:30 everamzah also hunger already has a "have player moved" mechanism, for draining hunger points as you move, iirc
11:31 everamzah so it's almost already built into that, just need a kick if they haven't moved X minutes
11:31 everamzah of course, then you can't idle and chat without worrying about afk kick, which is nasty
11:31 everamzah or organize loot for 5 minutes, etc
11:31 everamzah i think banning a player who got kicked X times is doable
11:32 Volkj in your mod you use a table for kicking that keeps count of deaths, modifying that to track kicks is trivial. however, if the server crashes the values of the table are gone, so it would need to be stored
11:34 everamzah well, it doesn't work as i expected, so i can play with it
11:34 everamzah thanks again
11:36 Volkj hunger mod?
11:37 everamzah no, death_kick.  i kicks less than 50 seconds sometimes.  hunger mod i will try your patch
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11:37 Volkj my patch for hunger mod was applied on a server but it seems to not work, however on a local server it seemed to work
11:37 everamzah oh ok, then i can play with that too :D
11:37 Volkj server started from the server tab in minetest client, so not singleplayer game, tried with another client connected to localhost
11:40 everamzah just a guess, but maybe it needs and player:get_hp() > 0, instead of hp > 0
11:40 everamzah i dunno this stuff whoosh o/
11:41 Volkj it seems that there's already an hp variable in scope https://github.com/volkj/hunger/blob/3e2210084f8​53737d1a290191237b657be44f135/functions.lua#L150
11:42 Volkj i added my edit at line 155
11:50 burli 1998: stop playing Pokenmon and go outside, 2016: stop playing Pokemon and come in
11:51 Volkj 2016: never stopped playing Pokemon :D
11:51 burli hehe
11:51 Volkj the battery of the cartridge, however, stopped :(
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13:04 Calinou wow, new site: https://rocket.chat/
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13:06 Megaf whos site?
13:06 Megaf !title
13:06 MinetestBot Megaf: Rocket.Chat
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13:21 Krock teamviewer 2.0?
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13:25 Krock " JavaScript 38.4% CoffeeScript 36.0% " <- Calinou
13:25 Krock it's totally web-based
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13:44 Megaf I just triedi t out, terrible
13:44 Megaf tried*
13:44 Megaf IRC much more lighter and robust
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13:55 Krock Megaf, but IRC doesn't have any voice, image or video transfer
13:58 Megaf it depends on the client
13:58 Megaf KVIRC have all those features for more than a decade
13:58 Megaf and actually, that's what DCC is for
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13:58 Megaf CTCP and DCC can be very powerful, but only a handful of clients properly support them
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14:01 Megaf reboot, brb
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14:04 Megaf back :)
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14:09 Megaf_ KVIrc even supports secure chat
14:09 Megaf_ stuff that only know is coming to things like whatsapp
14:10 Megaf_ this thing is so much ahead of it's time
14:10 Volkj isn't watshapp a proprietary XMPP client after all?
14:10 Krock yes, too much ahead. Okay, now let's continue talking with the common telegraphs
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14:11 Megaf_ Volkj: No idea
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14:33 Taoki[mobile] I use KVirc for years, very happy with it
14:33 Taoki[mobile] Mostly got it cuz avatar support
14:35 Megaf heh
14:36 Megaf I can't use it here, due to a KDE bug, it will alway put the volume output to the max every single time it plays any sound
14:36 Megaf So I'm using Quassel
14:37 Megaf Quassel and KVIrc are the best IRC clients in my opinion, they are different from all others and both have unique features
14:43 Calinou Quassel is cool
14:43 Calinou it's what I'm using right now
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14:47 Taoki[mobile] I use KDE too. No KVirc bugs here
14:47 Taoki[mobile] *Plasma 5
15:01 Megaf I wish GNOME had a light theme instead of the black one, or better, I wish it could change from light to dark theme acording to the time/light
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15:03 Taoki[mobile] I wish VNOME had a way to reposition the taskbar :p
15:03 Taoki[mobile] Gnome
15:04 Megaf and change the size of title bars and panels
15:04 Megaf basically we want gnome to be, gnome...
15:04 Megaf the good old gnome 2
15:04 Megaf all the goodness of gnome3 without removing the features in gnome 2
15:05 Megaf KDE 4/5 did a great job in reimplementing a lot of the good things KDE 3 had
15:05 * Taoki[mobile] loves kde, especialky since 5
15:06 Megaf I couldn't try KDE 5 yet, I think Debian Stretch only has the 4
15:06 Megaf 4.96
15:08 Taoki[mobile] Ok. Opensuse Tumbleweed here
15:10 Megaf !server Megaf
15:10 MinetestBot Megaf: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/5, 0/2 | Version: 0.4.14-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 10ms
15:12 Calinou the GNOME you want is called Xfce :P
15:12 Calinou Taoki[mobile]: KDE is still slow at gaming though (when the compositor isn't suspended) :/
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15:15 Taoki[mobile] Calinou: It's slow when you don't disable its one great evil: Baloo
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16:16 everamzah anyone else run a system-wide install and experience: 2016-07-16 09:10:48: WARNING[Main]: Could not load icon file '/usr/local/share/minetest/mis​c/minetest-xorg-icon-128.png'
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16:18 Calinou everamzah: ask est31 about it, he implemented Linux icon support
16:19 everamzah ok i pinged him here https://github.com/minetest/minetest​/commit/5d4d3f8366b74d9c3da892d94188​defc49407ebf#commitcomment-18271629
16:19 Volkj why is using /usr/local ?
16:20 everamzah i always do system-wide install, never run in place
16:20 everamzah unless i am testing on stable 0.4.14
16:21 everamzah because multiple users access it
16:22 Calinou Volkj: "sudo make install" installs to /usr/local by default
16:23 everamzah oh, i have always used /usr/local, because that's where most stuff goes by default.  and i don't even have to add it to /etc/ld.so.conf
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16:24 Volkj Calinou: i see, i install it by package manager
16:24 whitephoenix full_punch_interval is used 3 times in lua_api.txt but never actually explained
16:25 everamzah i asked about that once, it now more of a mystery to me than ever.  i believe it's not used in minetest_game anywhere, but is a mechanism for tool progression, or something
16:26 whitephoenix It's in all the default tools
16:26 everamzah oh, well, never mind then
16:26 whitephoenix I mean I can guess what it does but a real description so I didn't have to would be nice
16:26 whitephoenix looks like I guessed wrong too, so idk
16:27 everamzah maybe i was thinking about `level'
16:28 whitephoenix maxlevel is in default tools too
16:28 everamzah full_punch_interval is the time it takes for the tool to cock? completely back
16:28 everamzah haha
16:28 everamzah ye i got nothin;
16:29 whitephoenix that was my guess but I can keep swinging at the same speed when I set it to 10.0
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16:36 whitephoenix everamzah, "it's what determines the time to get full damage again after attacking an entity"
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16:45 everamzah ah, time from last punch, of course!  \:D/
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17:09 * Megaf @ Plasma 5
17:10 * Calinou @ Dynamic Window Manager
17:10 * Megaf @ Different WM/DE/OS every week
17:10 Megaf lol
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17:31 segfault22 Is it possible to prevent any mod from arbitrarily calling functions of a specific mod? For example, if you could write Lua code into a dialog for a special node, then punch the node and it runs the code, it would be possible to change your account balance in some currency/trade mod or take balance from others' accounts. How can we make that impossible?
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17:44 segfault22 I could make it verify tghe
17:44 segfault22 %n keybpard
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17:47 segfault22 I could make the function verify a local variable and since other mods don't have that local variable they can't pass its value on to the function and make it do whatever. I will have to make the variable something long and complex like a MD5 sum or some other random crypt-text, so that it can't be guessed - and possibly require the server owner to enter said crypt-text so that it is different for each installation of the mod (or use /dev/urandom t
17:47 segfault22 o get some random data at load time, that way it's always different)
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17:48 segfault22 But it could still be exploited if a player is a hacker and they figure out some way to access local variables and pass them to a function outside the mod to which the function belongs...
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17:52 segfault22 does anyone have an idea or suggestions?
17:57 segfault22 I took apart a broken food processor and modded a regular box fan to have the motor from the food processor in it,... it runs about 3.5x the power the fan was designed for. I only found out after I finished constructing it, that the food processor motor isn't designed to run longer than 3 minutes without overheating (manual said so)
17:57 nm0i Megaf: how are plasma crashes?
17:58 * nm0i @ emacs
18:01 Megaf nm0i: dont know yet, I never manage to support this thing long enough
18:01 Megaf xP
18:01 Megaf gtg, cya
18:10 whitephoenix I'm trying to get the damage a player deals when they hit a node, is this possible or do I need an entity?
18:11 Calinou I don't think it's possible :(
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18:13 Hijiri segfault22: make the functions local
18:14 Hijiri segfault22: What is this mod for?
18:14 hisforever I tilled the ground, but my cotton is not growing Why?
18:14 Hijiri Someone could always modify your mod to export the functions
18:15 segfault22 The mod is going to be like the regular money/currency mod, except its integrated with paypal so that it deals with real money
18:15 everamzah is there light enough?
18:16 Hijiri Is it supposed to be between different servers?
18:16 Hijiri You'll need to make the money cryptographically signed or something
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18:16 Hijiri you can't let the servers be in charge of money production
18:17 segfault22 its for players to sell their earned resources to other players, or effectively just selling the time and effort to get the resources; the server is not supposed to make any money off of it because that would constitute selling the game which breaches the license.
18:17 Hijiri what license?
18:17 Hijiri LGPL2+ allows commercial use
18:17 Hijiri paypal license?
18:18 segfault22 I saw on the forum the game devs said its not allowed to sell in-game stuff to players for real money, when the stuff is spawned from nothing
18:18 Hijiri They probably just meant it was immoral
18:18 Hijiri the license doesn't prohibit it
18:18 Hijiri Is this on a trusted or untrusted server?
18:19 segfault22 Any server
18:19 Hijiri A server you don't control?
18:19 Hijiri (potentially)
18:19 segfault22 right
18:19 Hijiri Ok
18:20 Hijiri So is this with a central money server?
18:20 Hijiri Or would each server have its own thing
18:21 segfault22 each server will handle it alone, except for the end that is handled by the paypal service servers at the paypal co-inc building
18:21 Hijiri ok
18:22 Hijiri You could code it as if the server is trusted then
18:22 Hijiri I'm not sure exactly how paypal API works
18:23 Hijiri If possible, it would be good to have the server register a pending transaction and then complete it after confirmation from paypal that it went through
18:23 Hijiri (The actual money transfer done outside the game)
18:23 Hijiri the mod shouldn't require players to trust the server with their account info
18:23 segfault22 yes
18:24 Hijiri Another potential problem is some server owner scamming people by modding the mod to not actually do the transfer after the transaction completes
18:25 Hijiri Probably your mod should be AGPL
18:25 Hijiri though a scammer might put fake source code, at least they will be doing it illegally
18:27 Hijiri I guess the scam would be illegal in the first place
18:28 segfault22 maybe there is a way to prevent using the mod if the code is changed
18:29 Hijiri no, you could just remove that part
18:30 Hijiri you can't trust the mod code
18:30 Hijiri unless you are the server operator
18:33 segfault22 I will operate a server with this on it, and I can't have someone abuse the mod and make it extract a whole bunch of money I don't have in the server's account, because then I would be in debt to paypal - that is the biggest concern. But if a server owner modified the code to scam people, that could be just as bad.
18:33 Hijiri All the servers would be using your paypal?
18:33 Hijiri brb shower
18:34 Hijiri I personally don't think it's an issue if your mod allows other people to scam people, since they could have written their own scam mod anyway
18:35 Hijiri and it would be a lot easier than a legitimate mod, since it doesn't have to actually confirm paypal transactions
18:35 Hijiri but actually brb now
18:36 Hijiri unbrb, I think it is very unlikely that a player will be able to run arbitrary lua code on the server, brb again
18:36 segfault22 Each server will use a different account set-up by the server owner, ideally.
18:36 segfault22 Thats good, thank you for the help
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18:48 Hijiri back
18:48 Hijiri originally I thought your system would involve transfers between player's paypals
18:48 Hijiri If you are storing people's money you need special certification for that, at least in the US
18:49 Hijiri probably any developed country
18:49 segfault22 It could just transfer between player's paypal accounts, if that is possible
18:50 Hijiri I would go with that if possible
18:52 segfault22 it would have to be signaled during and after the transaction, in order to move items between inventories or move game currency or whatever.
18:52 segfault22 a function that does the transfer in-game will have to be called when the transaction happens.
18:53 Hijiri I don't know enough about the paypal API to know how to implement it or if it can be implemented
18:53 ElectronLibre Does anybody know if someone is working on getting InchraNet's domain name back? People are really getting annoyed that they can't go there as easily as they used to, some even consider leaving Inchra for that reason
18:55 segfault22 I am looking ad the paypal developer documentation and I don't see any way to "oversee" a transaction between two separate accounts,... it might be impossible without some kind of middleman system, so another service provider will have to be found
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18:56 Hijiri I'm not a lawyer, but you could ask one if it's possible to have a virtual currency exchangable with real money both ways without going through certification
18:57 Hijiri that is what Second Life does
18:58 Hijiri You would still have to be very careful about handling it though, if it is legal
18:58 Hijiri probably want to use a reliable transactional DBMS with it
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18:59 Hijiri acid or whatever is sufficient for this
19:00 Hijiri I mean, choose acid, or anything else that is sufficient
19:00 Passant hi there, i have trouble with https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/com​mit/f17d7911737ea553fa63aeaafa9ef5b7a60d608d because its a "nil" valua - may i miss something on the cherry-pick? or how exactly should the setting be named? mg_name = v7 for example does not work o.O
19:00 Passant *value
19:01 Hijiri segfault22: I have to go now, good luck with your mod
19:01 segfault22 thank you
19:02 segfault22 I really appreciate all of the help and ideas/suggestions, they are essential to this development
19:03 segfault22 without your insight I would not have gotten the idea to simply make the transaction between players' own accounts without a middleman
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19:07 agaran technic+pipeworks makes awesome combo..
19:07 ElectronLibre Passant: Without crash logs it's hard to tell where that kind of incident is from
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19:09 paramat VanessaE you are a forum moderator? please could you look at this and take appropriate action? http://i.imgur.com/DUpSISi.png
19:10 Krock k-line him
19:11 Passant ElectronLibre: since the commit is looking for get_mapgen_setting i thought there is not much more to tell about. sorry. "attempt to call field 'get_mapgen_setting' (a nil value)"
19:12 segfault22 people are so retarded,... are we going to have to set-up a moderator verification system for everything so the little kids don't see something that might disturb their fragile minds?
19:12 segfault22 That seems to be the only option now, as everything has been abused
19:12 Calinou paramat: I dealt with it
19:13 ElectronLibre What is your version of the game Passant?
19:13 segfault22 We should require moderators to approve profile pictures, post titles and content and attachments, and private messages before they are "allowed to pass"
19:13 paramat ok
19:14 Calinou segfault22: there are a few forums I know that require avatar approval
19:14 Calinou it's a bit tedious
19:14 segfault22 or make two forums; one where everything is moderated and has to be approved, and one where everything is dumped to if it is not approved
19:15 paramat heh that's too much work
19:15 segfault22 the former is where the little kids are told to go for their mental safety, and nobody cares what goes to the latter
19:15 segfault22 except malware
19:15 Passant ElectronLibre: i merged "everything" today from this minetest_game to my forked one
19:15 Passant or do you mean minetest instead of *_game?
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19:16 whitephoenix to be honest thats what I would expect from most arch users
19:16 ElectronLibre I meant the engine
19:16 Passant 04fb109
19:16 paramat Passant you need to update to latest engine dev version
19:16 ElectronLibre Some kind of CRC commit hash
19:16 Passant thats good so it wont make trouble on the server, then :D
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19:17 whitephoenix im gonna do a ddos an us 1337 hardcore hakr cmds so my middl skool friends will realiz i am bettr then evryone
19:17 ElectronLibre Anyway, paramat and I have reached the same conclusion, update your engine
19:17 ElectronLibre I've never seen anyone in middle school launching ddos attacks
19:17 Calinou whitephoenix: I did use Antergos (based on Arch Linux) for a while, and would still recommend it for power users who want recent software :)
19:18 ElectronLibre Here they barely know how to use spreadsheets
19:18 whitephoenix I used it for a while before I went to debian testing
19:18 whitephoenix the community was shit
19:18 whitephoenix anyways as a distro, I think void linux is what arch should have been
19:18 ElectronLibre I use Arch Linux, mostly because I like having libraries that are recent, but I have this natural instinct of staying away from people, maybe it helped
19:19 whitephoenix Void linux is super nice, worth a look
19:21 segfault22 I never heard of void linux before now
19:21 segfault22 it looks cool
19:22 ElectronLibre Let me finish my gentoo first please
19:22 ElectronLibre I'm pretty sure I messed up the bootmanager's config file, I'm almost there
19:22 ElectronLibre I'll see what void linux looks like when I'm done with that
19:22 whitephoenix It's generally more stable because its rolling release, but core packages are tested pretty thoroughly
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19:25 Calinou there's also Fedora, which is quite robust but still quite recent
19:25 Calinou packages rarely get more old than 6 months
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19:26 paramat Calinou, that forum user has since cleaned up their posts and profile, but has behaved so badly, i was thinking a months ban?
19:28 paramat at least
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19:44 Krock everamzah, please make a perfect loop gif for https://youtu.be/iNlXsGm5FO0?t=25m10s
19:44 everamzah mm, ok i'll try
19:44 Krock :D
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20:19 everamzah phew https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.p​hp?f=3&amp;t=8499&amp;p=225435#p225435
20:19 Krock WOOOO
20:20 Krock that's a perfect loop :D
20:20 everamzah haha ^5
20:20 Krock well done
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20:20 everamzah thanks!
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21:06 mmmm how i can go to MT servers channels???????????please answer
21:07 Calinou mmmm: most Minetest server channels are not on freenode but on InchraNet
21:07 everamzah it's daconcepts.com i guess mmmm
21:08 everamzah if you're looking for inchra.net
21:08 Krock Yes, connect to daconcepts.com and see all rooms using /list
21:08 mmmm ok wait
21:08 Krock ^ can't open a 2nd tab
21:08 everamzah Amhi's new owner, ladies and gentlemen
21:08 Krock huh
21:09 everamzah lol he asked me for privs so i gave them to him
21:09 Krock guys like you are the reason that such people get what they want
21:10 everamzah generous to a fault
21:10 Krock sometimes it's better to not give them any privs than cleaning up their mess afterwards
21:10 mmmm_ joined #minetest
21:10 everamzah i never gave any to anyone except Dragonop and Kidmondo.  but that was so long ago, and i had a good feeling about that one.  so far so good going on day 2
21:11 Krock yes, I had Dragonop as mod on my server too
21:11 everamzah i miss Dragonop
21:11 Krock (back then when my router's port forwarding wasn't broken yet)
21:11 everamzah yes, he would be mad at me if he knew, but he's not here so
21:11 mmmm_ where is Dragonop?
21:11 everamzah oh hi
21:11 mmmm_ hi
21:11 everamzah i dunno, probably busy with school
21:12 mmmm_ ok
21:12 Krock mmmm_, did you get into inchranet?
21:12 everamzah i heard he got a new computer, so i kinda suspect he's busy with that too, and maybe other games.  then again, he's probably around somewhere
21:12 mmmm_ where?
21:12 everamzah irc.daconcepts.com
21:12 Krock god only knows
21:12 mmmm_ how
21:12 everamzah that's where #Amhi is if that's what you're looking for
21:13 everamzah ooh, good question.  are you on a web client?
21:13 mmmm_ ok ok
21:13 Calinou I wonder if I should start a Minetest server again
21:13 Calinou :p
21:13 everamzah well, yea!
21:13 Calinou I have the resources to make like 5 of them
21:14 Krock mmmm_, https://kiwiirc.com/client/daconcepts.com/ join the channel #minetest
21:15 mmmm_ k
21:15 everamzah nice *bookmarks*
21:15 Krock Calinou, then make 6 of them
21:15 mmmm_ yes  im at irc amhi server
21:16 everamzah okie
21:17 Szkodnix joined #minetest
21:30 Calinou wtf, Minetest...
21:30 Calinou map-dir is stupid
21:30 Calinou map-dir = minetest-survival
21:30 Calinou puts a world called "minetest-survival" in cwd
21:30 Calinou map-dir = ~/.minetest/worlds/minetest-survival
21:30 Calinou creates a folder called ~...
21:30 Calinou ._.
21:31 paramat left #minetest
21:31 everamzah the struggle is real.  i think it's just worlds/ then, eh
21:36 GunshipPenguin joined #minetest
21:36 Calinou an absolute path works
21:45 swift110_ joined #minetest
21:51 hisforever joined #minetest
21:52 hisforever Do I need anything special to grow Cotton?
21:52 DonBatman Jusat need to have dirt near water
21:52 DonBatman use the hoe to til the dirt
21:52 DonBatman plant the seeds
21:53 hisforever ty Don I frogot the water lol
21:53 DonBatman It needs lots of light so plant them outside in suunlight
21:53 DonBatman np
21:54 hisforever I've been away from minetest for aboyr 6 months so I frogot a lot lol
21:55 DonBatman It happens. I forget a lot
21:57 LazyJ joined #minetest
21:58 DonBatman Hi LazyJ
21:58 LazyJ Howdy DonBatman  ;)
21:59 DonBatman I think I am LazyDon today
22:25 KaadmY https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=225450#p225450
22:25 KaadmY the reason behind 16 light levels...
22:42 ElectronLibre_ joined #minetest
22:54 Fixer_ joined #minetest
23:14 Fixer joined #minetest
23:46 ungali joined #minetest
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