Time Nick Message 00:27 crazyR Anyone around? 00:37 sofar sure 00:42 crazyR Looking for opinions on Mapgen V7 to use for a new map? Is it considered stable? 00:42 crazyR Also is there a list anywhere of mods that are not compatable with it? 00:42 sofar I've been using it since a long time, never any problems with it 00:42 sofar it offers more mapgen modding features 00:42 sofar not less 00:42 crazyR What mods do you use with it? if you dont mind me asking? 00:43 sofar just look on the forums for paramat's mapgen mods 00:44 crazyR I am doing now. my concern is ive read a few times about it having trouble with the more tree's mod. trying to work out if that is still the case 00:45 sofar fire up a new world and try it? 00:45 crazyR thats the plan, though id check up with you folk on here first though see if i could save my self 5 mins of time haha. :) 00:46 sofar I've stopped using moretrees a long time ago 00:48 crazyR Ahh understood, thanks for your input 00:55 crazyR yep seems that more tree's isnt compatable with MGV7 yet. Il keep an eye its progress and go back to MGV6 00:56 DonBatman mg v7 has features well worth abandoning more trees. The rivers and mountains are awesome 00:58 crazyR My concern is that if 1 well established mod is incompatable with MGV7 how many other mods are there that will have issues with it.. My maps usually run alot of mods all of various trypes 01:00 DonBatman I understand your concern. It is hard to have different mapgens work with different mods made by people that may or may not say which mapgens the mods work with 01:01 sofar I'm more of the camp that moretrees is overrated. it existed because people wanted more trees. They wanted 2 more trees, not 20, though 01:02 sofar which is why I added Aspen trees myself - I felt that it was the one thing that the mapgen lacked tree wise 01:02 sofar after that, I haven't used moretrees. it clutters the landscape and makes a hodgepodge 01:02 crazyR I do like the variety.. although i do agree that it can sometimes become messy lol 01:03 sofar one well-balanced and properly integrated tree does better than tens of random trees 01:03 crazyR thats true 01:03 DonBatman sofar I totally agree 01:04 crazyR how does technic & other mapgen based mods work. anyone had any issues with them? 01:04 crazyR with MGV7 i mean lol 01:05 crazyR *map changing mods 01:05 VanessaE sofar: a hodgepodge? :P 01:06 crazyR lol Hi VanessaE 01:06 DonBatman Hi VanessaE 01:06 VanessaE hi :) 01:06 sofar VanessaE: sorry, I don't let my personal tastes cloud my judgement though - I'll fix all your mod bugs if I can :D 01:07 sofar I'm plenty supportive of people who do use them. 01:07 VanessaE my mods NEVER have bugs :) 01:07 DonBatman more trees is a great mod but not meant for everyone. It is subjective 01:07 sofar "undisclosed features" 01:07 VanessaE haha 01:07 VanessaE brb 01:07 crazyR ^ i think i will use that term as a replacement for bug reports on my websites lol 01:08 crazyR If anyone finds any undisclosed features please report them to: a@aaaa.a <- that works 01:10 DonBatman lol crazyR 01:22 paramat crazyR mgv7 terrain is stable, the biome system may change subtly in future though 01:23 crazyR paramat thanks for the heads up. Il do some testing over the next 3-4 days and see if i can break it before setting up a server lol. 01:23 paramat but the worst that can happen with biome system changes is occasional straight-edged biomes 01:24 paramat the biome system mgv7 uses is so developed you don't really need moretrees 01:24 crazyR Is there any improve to the speed of the mapgen? or is it pretty much the same 01:25 paramat and we will work on the incompatibility bug 01:25 crazyR in comparison to mgv6 01:26 paramat it's slower to generate but the bottleneck in MT is mesh generation so you won't notice much difference 01:26 paramat unless you are using a low power device 01:26 paramat you could disable mountains and rivers but then it's boring 01:27 crazyR hehe dont need to worry about server power :D 01:27 paramat good, mgv7 isn't particularlry slow 01:28 crazyR well then lets take a gamble... looks like ethicrush is going to be using MGV7 01:29 paramat yeah mgv6 is pretty boring in comparison 01:30 crazyR It served us well in the last server. but my thoughts are that if im going to start ethicrush from scratch i might as well start on a newer mapgen that is going to last much longer 01:31 paramat you'll have many more biomes and an extra tree and wood type 01:31 paramat of course, rivers. and mountains that go above y=47 01:31 crazyR is there a way to reduce the random floating islands without damanging the mountains and cliffs? 01:32 paramat yes with custom noise parameters, but this will affect the shape of the mountains, they'll be smoother 01:34 paramat you would reduce the 'persistence' mgv7_np_mountain = -0.6, 1, (250, 350, 250), 5333, 5, 0.63, 2.0 that's the 0.63 01:34 crazyR Thanks :) 01:34 paramat could reduce it to 0.5 or so 01:35 paramat or even 0.4 01:36 crazyR Il have a play around with it. thanks 02:01 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Flowers: Make flower spread a public function to enable override 13ab7b7c7 https://git.io/vwOZj (152016-04-19T02:58:03+01:00) 02:01 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sofar -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Doors: Use LBM instead of ABM to convert doors. 1380664f9 https://git.io/vwOne (152016-04-19T02:57:54+01:00) 02:10 DI3HARD139 Is "GMP" required for compiling minetest? 02:14 DonBatman DI3HARD139 check this for the dependencies. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3837 02:32 DI3HARD139 Thanks to whomever added links to the dlls for libvorbis, libvorbisfile and libogg on the wiki. Couldn't find those anywhere when I last attempted to compile on windows 02:37 DI3HARD139 still cant find the zlib library though 02:43 DI3HARD139 Where should I store all the dependencies? 03:25 DonBatman sorry DI3HARD139 I do not know windows. I only know linux and barely 03:25 DI3HARD139 NP. I got all the others working. Just CURL being a pain in the rear now 03:30 DonBatman DI3HARD139 have you considered switching too linux? 03:32 DI3HARD139 I have but all other games I play wont run (DirectX) and I find it to be very limited in terms of customization. Ex. Just uninstalling the email app shouldnt have removed xterm, xfce task manager from xubuntu 03:33 DI3HARD139 xfce and task manager * 03:41 DonBatman I am not sure of that. I use, as well as my family, Gnome Ubuntu and have been happy with it. 03:43 DonBatman I have been using Gnome Ubuntu for for over 4 years andhave not wanted windows. but it depends on what you do with your computer 04:37 MinetestBot 02[git] 04paramat -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Fire: Higher chance of removing flammable nodes 13e426f64 https://git.io/vwOEJ (152016-04-19T05:33:13+01:00) 06:58 nyje Looks like the forums has crashed/ been hacked 06:58 nyje the mysql server has fallen down... 07:04 LazyJ celeron55 mentioned that minetest.net was probably going to go down for maintenance around 5-9 UTC. 09:54 germanuel24 Is it possible to protect objects? Boats/cars/carts etc 10:08 germanuel24 Is there a reason why the dev wiki does hp change like this? player:set_hp(math.max(player:get_hp() - 1, 0)) 10:21 sfan5 germanuel24: what would be the other way of doing hp change? 10:22 germanuel24 player:set_hp(player:get_hp() - 1) ?? i mean is the math.max necessary? 10:23 sfan5 depends 10:23 sfan5 if set_hp doesn't check the value 10:24 sfan5 and you do set_hp(-1) bad things might happen 10:25 germanuel24 I see and 2016-04-19 12:24:10: WARNING[Main]: Field "maxwear" is deprecated; replace with uses=1/maxwear does mean the function still works but is not recommended anymore? 10:27 germanuel24 I get that since i replaced stable with dev 10:28 sfan5 yes it means that 10:28 germanuel24 So the mod that uses it is not broken? Good 10:36 germanuel24 Is remove_node() really very reliable? Like when i want to restrict node placing in an area and want to remove the node right after placing when the player doesn't have permission 10:39 sfan5 iirc you can prevent placing the node 10:40 sfan5 calling remove_node after the player placed something is not the correct way to do protection 10:41 germanuel24 I tried return inside register_on_place_node() and it didnt work 10:41 germanuel24 Or do i need return false? 10:41 nyuszika7h why don't you try it 10:44 germanuel24 Because my server is not a development one... i really don't want to take it offline every few hours just to test a functions return value without even knowing which one is right or wrong... the dev wiki doesn't say anything about it maybe the API.txt file mentions it and i overlooked it... but I'm not asking for a "complete code" in here just whether return value X is correct or not 10:52 crazyR germanuel24: You would be best creating a cloned dev server on a diffrent port. if only you are on the dev server then it would not affect the public one too much 10:52 crazyR *dont quote me on that though i have been known to be wrong before lol 10:55 germanuel24 Okay well the lua_api.txt does NOT even mention the prevention of node placing so all the server admins can do is guess? 10:56 germanuel24 It only mentions "return true to not take the item from stack" 11:04 germanuel24 Okay i tried it result: Neither return true or return false achive what i want so i'm just using remove_node() in the callback when i don't want it to be placed 11:07 germanuel24 What i need to know is if remove_node() does queue nodes correctly..like what if a player is crazy and tries to place 3 nodes within 1 server tick...will remove_node() remember ALL placed nodes and remove them in order? 11:08 sfan5 yes 11:08 germanuel24 Ok thanks then i can use it 11:09 sfan5 germanuel24: have you tried overriding minetest.is_protected insteadd? 11:12 germanuel24 sfan5, But what i want is globally... look in register_on_placenode() i check what kind of node was placed... if it is anything water/lava/firte related CHECK a file in the minetest folder and if it exists continue, if it does not exist, remove_node()... how can minetest.is_ptotected() help me there? 11:12 sfan5 so you haven't tried 11:13 germanuel24 I'm thinking is_protected() only supports the format position,owner or not? 11:14 sfan5 it only takes name and pos, correct 11:14 germanuel24 But i want SOME players to be able to place water/lava/fire and others not... how would i achive this with minetest.is_protected()? 11:15 sfan5 you can't 11:15 germanuel24 See that's what i mean so my only option is remove_node(9 11:16 germanuel24 If you say the function is reliable and doesn't skip any placed nodes, then I'm happy 11:19 germanuel24 Calinou, the compiling too ~ 40 minutes haha but at least no errors 11:19 germanuel24 took* 11:22 Calinou hi 11:22 Calinou germanuel24, it depends on your CPU 11:23 Calinou here it takes 5 minutes with all cores 11:23 germanuel24 Yeah people told me it should take ~ 15 on mine but seems like it's a little older than they thought 11:24 germanuel24 No CPU today is singlecore anymore..right? 11:26 Calinou yes 11:26 Calinou I'm going to upgrade my VPS to 8 cores, 16 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD soon :p 11:27 Krock mine is singlecore :3 11:27 Krock germanuel24, 40 minutse for the first time.. oh right. It took also long here 11:28 germanuel24 Kinda awkward when you know even the cheapest smartphone today has more performance than your PC lol 11:28 Krock but the next builds will be faster because the most data is already compiled 11:28 germanuel24 Oh i see... but i have to edit the default chat lines every time again right? 11:29 germanuel24 I mean the custom edits i made to the .cpp files 11:29 Krock no. you can make a seperate branch, push a commit with your change there and just grab all the updates into that branch 11:29 Krock so your master branch isn't hurted by that commit 11:29 Calinou germanuel24, cheap smartphones are not fast 11:29 Calinou actually, high-end smartphones are not fast either 11:30 Calinou a modern Celeron (€40) beats by far the fastest smartphone CPU out there 11:30 Calinou in any heavy task 11:30 Calinou x86 is much faster than ARM 11:30 Krock that's just because the mobile processor has a different power management 11:30 Krock sleeping all the time to save power 11:30 Calinou if an ARM CPU is as powerful as an x86 one, it'll use more power in most cases. 11:31 Calinou the "power curve" is steeper in ARM than in x86, but the "baseline" is lower in ARM 11:31 germanuel24 even 32-bit celeron is better than ARM CPU in phones? 11:31 Calinou all Celerons today are 64-bit 11:31 germanuel24 Mine is from 2005 lol 11:31 Calinou maybe not an old one, but a recent one (Haswell) sure will beat it 11:32 germanuel24 Is there like a golden rule about CPus? Like more cores = can do more tasks, higher clock = can do tasks faster? 11:34 germanuel24 Oh wait there can't be... Minetest only uses 1 core IIRC so having 8 doesn't help at all i guess 11:35 Krock oh yes sure it helps. You can compile the next minetest version at the same time while watching a video and listening all tracks of your favourite album at once 11:36 Krock ...while playing Minetest. 11:36 germanuel24 Ok so more cores always equals to better multitasking? 11:36 Krock yes but it fails because you can't multitask 11:37 axaro hello 11:37 germanuel24 Hm...and higher clock = more speed per task 11:37 Krock hi axaro 11:38 Krock germanuel24, and more heat 11:38 germanuel24 Yeah i heard the reason why no CPU is higher clocked than 4 GHz is cause it would burn...or something 11:39 Krock nah. you can do it to like 10 GHz but somewhen the silicim won't switch anymore 11:39 Krock and that's the limit 11:39 germanuel24 So why do electronic companies stick to 3-4 Ghz? 11:39 Krock because it's not required to go higher 11:40 germanuel24 And probably more expensive too? 11:41 Krock uhm.. not sure 11:41 Krock the mass of gold, silicium and other materials are the same 11:41 germanuel24 Could i just take any CPU and overclock it 50-100% without big damage? 11:42 Preuk saw a long time ago a P4 overclocked to 4 or 5 GHz for a few seconds ... liquid nitrogen required 11:42 Krock yeah, prepare liquid nitrogen 11:42 Krock but in fact it would work 11:42 Preuk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAVGs9FbmnM 11:43 germanuel24 Well my CPU is overclocked... it's usually 1.3 GHz now 2.6 GHz but that wasn't me..my brother gave it to me a few years back 11:43 Krock mine's underclocked. at 800MHz right now 11:44 Krock but that's no real underclock - just a simple ACPI setting 11:44 germanuel24 What are the symptoms of being too high? 100% CPU-load all the time? 11:45 Krock why would you have more CPU load if it's overclocked too high?! 11:45 germanuel24 So just more heat? 11:45 Krock heat, heat and heat 11:45 Krock maybe it would shut down at a specific temperature 11:46 germanuel24 Is 45° C alright when running programs? 11:46 Krock if you have a P4, 60°C are totally normal :P 11:46 germanuel24 Intel Celeron 11:46 Preuk Krock: shut down, wasn't always like that, back in the times you could fry AMD CPU like that 11:46 Krock it always depends on the clock rate, core voltage and processor type 11:47 Krock Preuk, yeah. See all those CPU burns on youtube :3 11:47 germanuel24 The BIOs says critical is 85° C ...could that be true? 11:47 Preuk Krock: had my 1GHz 1st-gen T-bird running at 1.2 or 1.3; no need for heating during winter (I really mean it) 11:48 Krock germanuel24, must be true. Could be measured in the processor or next to it.. who knows..? 11:48 Krock Preuk, same situation here :P 11:48 Krock oh well, it heats but I think the heating is still needed a bit 11:48 Preuk now I go for low-power, low-temp stuff, mush better WAF ;) 11:49 germanuel24 Since when do all CPUs have temperature measures built-in/next to them? Just curious 11:49 Preuk 15 years ago for Intel, 10 years ago for AMD i'd say 11:49 Krock I can only verify for 2005 11:50 germanuel24 Wow..and some cheap smartphones do not have a CPU temperature 11:50 Preuk that's around P4/Athlon FX generation 11:50 Preuk germanuel24: no need, when your jacket is burning, that means it's too hot 11:50 Krock got an Athlon 64 here and it has a temperature sensor 11:51 Krock burning stuff isn't hot but plasma is. 11:51 Preuk Krock: yes, they were introduced built-in around that time ; maybe on the last copper T-bird 11:51 Preuk Krock: that's like asking if you would die from shockwave, heat or rads when nuked 11:52 germanuel24 Haha... I'm just a bit concerned about my safety with this old machine... can i assume that the security methods in it are recent enough and it will not easily burn in flames? 11:52 Krock Preuk, or due loss of oxygen because the fire used all 11:53 Preuk germanuel24: if the whole PC is > 5 year old, the main "safety" concern would be the power block 11:53 Preuk Krock: while burning all of your body carbon? 11:54 germanuel24 Do power bricks not have security measures? 11:54 Krock Preuk, yeah. there are many ways to die 11:54 Preuk greeter: it's just that's the only device that handles high voltage/intensity 11:55 Krock older power bricks aren't that efficient at all 11:55 Preuk Krock: interested in a realistic "get nuked" mod for MT ? :) 11:55 Preuk and power unit perfs deteriorate pretty fast 11:55 Krock Preuk, oh yeah. Melting stone, radioactive particles and shockwaves everywhere 11:55 Preuk you should consider replacing it about as often as your HDD 11:56 germanuel24 The HDD is also very old i think...maybe 2010 11:56 Krock this means I never should replace it? 11:56 Preuk Krock: \o/ 11:56 Preuk 5y max 11:56 Preuk rule of thumb 11:56 Krock oh well. It's older than 5 years but wasn't used a lot in 3 of them 11:57 Preuk mecanical parts + bitrotting 11:57 Preuk I try swapping my HDD every 3 to 5 y depending on usage and criticity 11:58 greeter hmm? 11:58 Krock I wouldn't care much if this HDD was destroyed suddenly. Got a backup HDD and plans for a new computer anyway :3 11:58 Preuk Krock: you should put your IDE drives out of their misery 11:59 Krock noo.. I love IDE 12:00 Preuk I like it too... on a shelf, next to SD-RAM and floppies 12:00 Krock gonna slap germanuel with a huge trout into #minetest-de next time 12:02 Preuk btw I say that, but my linux box is 10yo 12:03 Preuk time for retirement on 2nd HDD change 12:03 Preuk or 12:03 Krock 14 harddisks in my shelf.. from 125 MB IDE to 250 GB SATA all available 12:03 Krock *24 12:04 Krock Some people collect postage stamps, others collect HDDs ^^ 12:04 Preuk nice! had to clean up last time I moved 12:04 Preuk dump all of my dead HDD 12:05 Preuk but still have a few 40-100G 2.5" IDE 12:05 Krock wait.. 2.5", those are the laptop ones, right? 12:05 Preuk aka "BIG USB key" circa 2010 12:05 Preuk yep 12:06 Preuk still have my 1.4 centrino laying around as a backup terminal 12:06 Krock ^^ 12:19 Preuk out of curiosity, what's the lowest spec machine you run MT on? 12:19 Preuk I mean the client part 12:20 Krock It was a Celeron D 347 @ 3.06GHz - horrible to play Minetest on it. The graphics card was pretty good but the CPU weak as hell 12:21 Krock now I got a horrible video card and a better CPU -> better gameplay o.0 12:22 Preuk singleplayer or playing on a remote server 12:23 Krock does it matter? the load on a public server was just 2-5x higher 12:23 Krock than in singleplayer 12:29 Preuk there no perf difference between single and client only? I thought that not having to generate the world, manage blocs, mods, etc. would make it faster 12:30 Krock but there are more players around, which means there are more block updates 12:30 Krock moving meshes etc 12:34 twoelk I got a sort of an official statement that my machine (PIII 2,5 GHz , 1.7gb of RAM under WinXP) is to old for Minetest http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2013-10-12#i_3368852 ; still using it to play mt though ;-P 12:37 Fixer PIII 2.5GHz? PIII max freq was 1.3GHz or so 12:38 Krock under 10 fps? ack 12:49 twoelk 35 fps on Xanadu just now 12:55 tpe That fractal mapgen is amazing. At about 6500, 1150, 0 it looks like an awesome space craft. Are there different fractal types? This one look like some sort of 3D hypercomplex algorithm. 14:52 Wuzzy What is an LBM? 14:54 Fixer Wuzzy, block modificator on block load I guess? 14:54 Fixer that runs once 14:54 Wuzzy and what does it do? 14:55 Fixer when block loads it executes something once 14:55 Fixer iirc 14:55 Fixer i think est31 knows better 14:55 Wuzzy hmm u mean, it can be used to replace legacy blocks? 14:57 Preuk Wuzzy: accoring to wiki that's why it was introduced 14:57 Preuk saw it on "register" page on dev wiki 14:58 Wuzzy :-( 14:58 Wuzzy lua_api.txt is worse 14:59 Wuzzy "introducement" lol 14:59 Preuk http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.register_lbm 15:00 Wuzzy seriously, why is this not in lua_api.txt? :-( 15:01 Wuzzy i thought this file is supposed to be the official doc 15:01 Wuzzy but thanks btw 15:01 Preuk 02:00, 10 March 2016‎ Est31 (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (1,811 bytes) (+1,811)‎ . . (Created the page) 15:02 Preuk pretty new I guess you're using stable version ? 15:03 Wuzzy what? 15:03 Wuzzy this LBM stuff is not in stable 15:04 Wuzzy and yes, I use stable, but also dev version. I use both :) 15:04 Wuzzy but "stable" more often 15:14 Krock Wuzzy, but sometimes dev versions are more stable than the official stable version :P 15:15 Preuk 0.4.13 doesn't have LBM iirc 15:16 KrimZon_ is there any way to override tool destruction and have something else happen instead when it's used up? 15:18 Wuzzy not that I know of 15:18 Wuzzy not directly afaik 15:19 PilzAdam Wuzzy, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L3332-L3345 15:19 Wuzzy but you could set wear manually 15:19 PilzAdam how is this "not in the docs" 15:19 Wuzzy -_- 15:19 Wuzzy -_-' 15:19 Wuzzy It does not say a word on what an LBM is 15:19 Wuzzy and is is way less info than in wiki 15:20 Wuzzy its there, but it needs improvement IMO. some wiki text could maybe be inserted here 15:20 PilzAdam compare it with the doc for ABM 15:21 PilzAdam and lua_api.txt is supposed to be shorter than the wiki 15:21 PilzAdam it's a short reference 15:22 Wuzzy I expect to at least give a sentence about the purpose on LBM. not more 15:22 Wuzzy and is lua_api.txt supposed to be of lower quality than the wiki? 15:23 Wuzzy of course background does not need to be written there 15:23 Wuzzy but IMO purpose should be clear 15:23 Wuzzy btw, how would you describe an LBM in 1 sentence? :P 15:23 Preuk "triggers on node loading" 15:25 PilzAdam "purpose" is up to the mods that use it 15:25 Wuzzy i mean, what it *does*. 15:25 Wuzzy current doc is just a list of table entries :( 15:25 PilzAdam "LoadingBlockModifier" 15:26 Wuzzy sigh 15:26 Wuzzy this can mean anything 15:26 Wuzzy such as "ActiveBlockModifier" 15:26 Wuzzy Hmm do you think this sentence explains it correctly?: 15:26 Wuzzy "The Loading Block Modifier consists of a function that is executed when the server loads nodes that match a passed filter." 15:26 Wuzzy (from the dev wiki) 15:27 PilzAdam it's executed for each node that matches 15:28 Wuzzy ok and why exactly does the lua_api.txt not say it? laziness? forgotten? too long? xD 15:28 Preuk Wuzzy: the one from main repo ? 15:29 Wuzzy yes, of course 15:29 Preuk weird 15:29 Wuzzy why? what do you have? 15:30 Preuk https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/d494733839e9cf6cb557462326ed21e7a58816c7 15:30 Preuk march 7 15:30 Preuk lua_api updated too 15:30 Wuzzy -_- 15:30 Wuzzy my issue is not that it is not there at all 15:31 Wuzzy my issue is that it is not explained 15:31 Wuzzy is is just a list of parameters but no word on what an LBM actually does 15:31 Wuzzy this makes lua_api.txt useless on its own. You have to go to the dev wiki :-( 15:31 Preuk indeed, my wrong 15:32 Wuzzy did you create LBMs? 15:32 Preuk nope 15:33 Preuk but there is no more "purpose" doc for other register functions, you're right 15:33 Preuk should be there instead of wiki 15:33 Wuzzy so long story short: An LBM is like an ABM, but it triggers when loading a node, not based on time or randomness 15:33 Wuzzy should be there, but not *instead* 15:34 Preuk i meant "as the primary source of information" 15:34 Wuzzy ok 15:34 Preuk do you feel like preparing a pull request for that? 15:35 Wuzzy no 15:36 Wuzzy ideally, coders document their own code. :-) LBMs are not my code, so ... 15:36 Wuzzy i am not sure if I fully understoof lbms anyways 15:37 Wuzzy i am not sure if I'll ever need LBMs xD 15:37 Preuk they would be great if there was a UBM trigger on un loading 15:38 Preuk to save/restore dynamic state for complex blocks like machinery, etc. 15:38 Wuzzy sounds very esoteric. use case example? 15:39 Wuzzy (more concrete) 15:39 Preuk this would avoid the need for a lot of chunkloaders 15:39 Wuzzy whatloaders? 15:39 Preuk for example, imagine i build a mese clock 15:40 Preuk i want it to run continuously so time is "accurate" (just a stupid use case) 15:40 Preuk when every player leave zone, blocks would be unloaded, right? 15:40 Wuzzy yes, but only after a delay 15:40 Wuzzy default is 15 min iir 15:40 Preuk so mecanism would eventualy stop 15:40 Wuzzy iirc* 15:40 Wuzzy and the zone must also not be forceloaded 15:41 Preuk you come back 30 minutes later, it's loaded again but any "dynamic" state is lost 15:41 Preuk or you need forceload, which is bad for server perfs 15:41 Wuzzy the idea is you run the clock in background but the block does not need to be always there 15:41 Wuzzy right? 15:41 Wuzzy but i wonder if this needs UBMs. I mean, bones already work 15:41 Preuk if you could trigger an event when a chunk is about to unload, you could save these dynamic states to be restored on next loading 15:42 Wuzzy bones inventories become open to anyone after X seconds 15:42 Preuk i would for example save current displayed time and server time 15:42 Preuk then on loading compute server time delta to correct displayed time 15:42 Wuzzy bones work without any fancy *BMs so I dont see the point 15:43 Preuk bones is ABM, right ? 15:43 Wuzzy no 15:43 Wuzzy no ABM, no LBM, no whateverBM :P 15:44 Preuk minetest.register_abm( {nodenames = {"bones:bones"}, 15:44 Preuk init.lua l.57 15:44 Preuk triggers every 10 seconds 15:45 Preuk https://github.com/Bad-Command/bones/blob/master/bones/init.lua 15:45 Wuzzy not in my source code o_O 15:45 Preuk dunno, never used this mod, just took a look at repo 15:45 Wuzzy haha, very funny 15:45 Wuzzy Bad-Command -_- 15:45 Preuk no change since 2012 15:45 Preuk :) 15:45 Wuzzy this is not the official Minetest Game repo ... 15:46 Preuk nope, the one linked from forum 15:46 Preuk it's now in minetest-mods ? 15:46 Wuzzy bones is part of Minetest Game 15:46 Preuk aaah sorry :( 15:46 Wuzzy would be pointless in minetest-mods as far I know 15:47 Wuzzy oh this reminds me 15:47 Wuzzy I should probably drop some of my mods into this minetest-mods repo thing 15:47 Preuk on_timer = function(pos, elapsed) 15:47 Wuzzy because bugreports tend to pile up xD 15:47 Preuk didn't know about this one 15:47 sofar bones should be a nodetimer, really 15:47 Preuk init.lua l. 115 15:48 Wuzzy hmmm does on_timer work even when the node is not loaded? 15:48 Preuk no clue, i'm really new here 15:49 Wuzzy whatever 15:50 Wuzzy I am not very active in Minetest atm. Currently, I am in my Hedgewars phase. xD 15:50 Wuzzy another reason for minetest-mods lol 15:53 Preuk currently having a look at worldgen, seeing what it would take to alter slightly v6 for example to add a lot more parameters 15:53 Wuzzy for instance? 15:54 Preuk namely to change "defaulting" to stone to different material depending on depth 15:54 Preuk clobs are nice, but not enough for my needs 15:54 Wuzzy clobs? 15:55 Preuk not sure of the name... checking 15:55 Wuzzy blobs? 15:56 Preuk yes, blob and scatters 15:56 Wuzzy afaik Minetest has support for “veins”, much more interesting 15:57 Preuk i need stratae 15:57 Wuzzy imo we need a subgame with a lot more stone types 15:57 Wuzzy boring default stone is boring 15:57 Wuzzy but not just more stone 15:57 Wuzzy there should also be a nice layering which makes mining interesting 15:57 Preuk i want to setup a basic "paleontology" mod to dig stuff from different depth and time 15:57 Wuzzy not just 100% flat sheets based on height 15:58 Wuzzy hey 15:58 Preuk yes, but that would be a starts; i like what Gael did on valley generator 15:58 Wuzzy such a mod kinda exists already somewhere. not sure if it is what u want 15:58 Wuzzy we already have a subgame with boring flat layers 15:58 Wuzzy its called BFG 15:58 Preuk Wuzzy: i guess so, but part of the fun is finding how to do it ;) 15:58 Preuk i'd be playing MC if not for that :D 15:59 Wuzzy well 15:59 Wuzzy what Minetest needs is something which you can actually play. I am fed up by all those Minetest Game clones and sandbox subgames 15:59 Preuk i have a few geologists ready to trick me into making it real 16:00 Wuzzy there are only a few real games for Minetest, most are sandboxes 16:00 Preuk yep, when discovering MT, found quite a lot of "gameplay oriented" forks/clones 16:00 Wuzzy really? 16:00 Wuzzy I know only of one and it is Voxelands 16:00 Preuk freeminer, voxeland, etc. 16:00 Wuzzy the other big fork is Freeminer but it is not much different 16:01 Wuzzy Freeminer's default subgame is still a sandbox 16:01 Wuzzy no mobs, no challenge etc 16:01 Preuk better network, worse perfs 16:01 Wuzzy true, but has nothing to do with gameplay :P 16:01 Wuzzy i never really understood the minetest/freeminer split 16:01 Preuk climate, water, etc. 16:02 Wuzzy probably it boils down to "politics" and people xD 16:02 Wuzzy the voxelands fork is totally understandable because it has a clear goal 16:02 Wuzzy sadly, Freeminer is GPLv3, Minetest is GPLv2+, so any Freeminer improvement is for Freeminer only, but Minetest improvements can be copied into Freeminer. :-( 16:03 Fixer Wuzzy, are you CDDA fun? 16:03 Wuzzy What kind of question is this? And who is CDDA fun? 16:03 Preuk maybe someone will start a donation campaign, funding, patreon, whatever to make a bigass game from minetest, but i guess API is not stable enough for that 16:04 Fixer Wuzzy, do not try to hide %) 16:04 Wuzzy hahaha. "just throw big $$$ at it, and it will succeed" 16:04 Preuk not what i mean 16:04 Preuk but sandbox players won't be able to make a real game 16:04 Wuzzy I am not CDDA fun. I do play C:DDA, however. But it has been a LOOOOOONG time 16:05 Wuzzy hey, nothing against sandboxes. but i think minetest subgames need ... a change. :P 16:05 Preuk voxelands is a nice try for a core dev, but it's still empty, same for freeminer 16:05 Wuzzy voxelands is much "less" empty than Minetest Game and Freeminer's default 16:05 Fixer ? how 16:05 Wuzzy well, more stuff 16:05 Fixer in what regard? 16:06 Fixer not much 16:06 Fixer imho default mtg lacks mobs and railcarts, thats it 16:06 Wuzzy yeah, at the end of the day, its still a sandbox 16:06 Preuk subgames are games, minetest is a sandbox ; i mean you could take 20 kids making sand castles, you wouldn't end up with one big castle 16:06 Wuzzy no 16:06 Wuzzy subgames are not automatically games 16:06 Fixer minetest is engine 16:07 Wuzzy most subgames are sandboxes, a few are games 16:07 Preuk gamedesign a a different world 16:07 Wuzzy example for a game: Hungry Games Plus 16:08 Wuzzy example for a non-game: Minetest Game (the irony!) 16:18 Preuk I'll see if we cna come up with a "real" game concept, but that's not our current goal; we just want to dig dino bones (yeah, scientists are just like kids) 16:18 Preuk gotta run 16:26 PilzAdam Wuzzy, bad games are games, too 16:26 PilzAdam don't be racist against games 16:27 Wuzzy minetest game is not a game 16:27 Wuzzy its a sandbox 16:27 Wuzzy e.g. games have some kind of challenge. minetest game does not have challenges. 16:28 PilzAdam a sandbox is not a game? 16:28 sofar Wuzzy: the challenge is: don't get bored! 16:28 Wuzzy sandboxes and games are different things 16:28 rubenwardy A game is structured form of play, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes used as an educational tool. 16:28 PilzAdam not dying is a challenge in Minetest game 16:28 rubenwardy !w game 16:29 rubenwardy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game 16:29 rubenwardy I disagree that there needs to be concrete goals 16:29 sofar goals != challenge 16:29 sofar sorry, lua-translate: goals ~= challenge 16:29 Fixer not dying? it does not even have hunger and mobs :) 16:29 rubenwardy Ok then, Minetest can have challenge 16:30 PilzAdam TotalBiscuit defines games as an interactive medium with a "failure state" 16:30 rubenwardy ie: building big buildings 16:30 Wuzzy well, your definition just lumps together games and sandboxes. there is a funamental difference between, lets say, the powder toy and tetris 16:30 sofar I love these vocabulary-alignment group exercises :) 16:30 rubenwardy this is basically semantics 16:31 Wuzzy anyways, you cant say that The Hungry Games Plus and Minetest Game are both equal 16:31 Wuzzy i.e. there is no winnter in minetest game. you can never "win" 16:31 PilzAdam all games should be equal; stop game racism now! 16:32 Fixer VanessaE, http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-04-19-the-64-is-an-unofficial-reimagining-of-the-commodore-64 16:32 PilzAdam Wuzzy, there is no winning in tetris, is there? 16:32 PilzAdam or pacman 16:32 sofar flappy bird 16:32 Wuzzy but there is a goal: get highscore. minetest game does not have any goal 16:33 Wuzzy hey, i am not saying sandboxes are bad 16:33 rubenwardy The player makes the goal 16:33 Wuzzy this is the perfect example of a sandboxes 16:33 sofar so autocad is a game? 16:33 PilzAdam I don't think games have to have explicit goals 16:33 PilzAdam they must have a way of failing, but not a way of winning 16:34 Wuzzy no autocad is a CAD tool. if you call everything with interactivity a “game”, haha lol 16:34 Wuzzy anyways, I am just hoping for more games in Minetest. 16:34 PilzAdam the "goal" of the player is to not get into the "failure" state 16:34 rubenwardy MTG isn't a very good game if it is 16:34 rubenwardy one 16:35 Wuzzy where “game” = interactive subgame with goal and/or challenge and meaningful decisions 16:35 Wuzzy MTG isn't a very good sandbox either imo :/ 16:35 PilzAdam "meaningful decisions" are required for a game? 16:35 Wuzzy well, its just what i wish would exist for minetest 16:36 Fixer http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-02-18-now-theres-a-sinclair-zx-spectrum-vega-handheld lol 16:36 Wuzzy there are a few subgames which match this criteria. very very few 16:36 PilzAdam Wuzzy, https://github.com/PilzAdam/score do you consider this to be a "game"? 16:36 Wuzzy hmmmm 16:36 Wuzzy does it work? 16:37 PilzAdam yes, try it 16:37 Fixer hmmmmmm 16:37 Wuzzy the mine goal is to mine score. WHAT? 16:37 PilzAdam its boring after 10 minutes, but it is the most fundamental goal 16:37 PilzAdam Wuzzy, *main goal 16:37 Fixer it is nice to have score in minetest: how much you lived, placed blocks, killed mobs, walked, mined 16:38 Wuzzy well, games* do not need to be complex 16:38 PilzAdam Wuzzy, "score" is an "ore" that you have to find and mine 16:38 PilzAdam the naming implies it's role in the gameplay 16:38 Wuzzy well according to the description this thing is probably a game. maybe a boring one but still a game lol 16:39 Wuzzy maybe I should say "game*" instead of "game" because our definitions differ xD 16:39 PilzAdam it's basically an experiment to do non-minetest_game stuff in the Minetest engine 16:40 Wuzzy ok 16:40 Wuzzy anyways, sorry for the "game" confusion :/ 16:40 Wuzzy I just think there are soooooo many sandboxes 16:40 Wuzzy and soooo few actual challenges 16:42 rubenwardy If I were to make a subgame, I would make it less of a sandbox and more of a challange 16:42 rubenwardy I'd like to make a game where you, at the start, are given 2-3 NPC colonists to look after 16:43 Wuzzy go on 16:43 rubenwardy But so little time :( 16:43 sofar lol 16:43 rubenwardy rimworld would be my inspiration 16:43 sofar so little to do and so much time! strike that! reverse it! 16:43 Wuzzy That's the "game" of life. xD 16:57 LNJ2GO http://i.imgur.com/uYifFck.jpg #mgv7 16:58 germanuel24 Can someone help? I want to have public chat messages when my moderators use /give or /giveme but i cannot simply add core.chat_send_all() to the give_handler in chatcommands.lua http://pastebin.com/1TxbUUmk 17:01 Wuzzy minetest.chat_send_all? 17:02 ElectronLibre It should be the same function as core.chat_send_all, 17:02 Wuzzy then both should work, right? o_O 17:02 ElectronLibre Try adding it before "if giver == receiver then", so that it's run for everyone. 17:02 * Krock slaps germanuel24 with a huge trout directly into #minetest-de 17:03 Wuzzy oh 17:03 Wuzzy lol Krock 17:03 Krock ^^ 17:03 ElectronLibre Well that's a bad beating.. 17:03 Krock actually very bad indeed. He didn't join it yet 17:04 Krock must try again if this won't work with the first troutslap 17:04 Wuzzy maybe you need a squid or even a whale 17:04 germanuel24 Since i consider my English to be decent plus the German channel does not have as many users i rather go to here with my questions 17:04 Wuzzy This video is pretty awesome: https://youtu.be/4omndVZijLc 17:05 Wuzzy wheee! nodes flying in the air =) 17:05 Calinou hi 17:05 Krock hi Calinou 17:05 Wuzzy hello world 17:06 ElectronLibre germanuel24, try adding "core.chat_send_all("%s invoked give for %q %s":format(giver, stackstring, partiality))" before the if statement. 17:07 germanuel24 Can i not just use giver, receiver and stackstring variables? 17:07 germanuel24 core.chat_send_all("[Server]: "..giver.." added "..stackstring.." to their inventory.") 17:07 ElectronLibre You could also do that yes. 17:08 ElectronLibre In fact, looking at your code, there is a way to keep what's in and make it work the way you want it to work. 17:10 ElectronLibre Do you see that second "return true, "? Take the string, and add a call to core.chat_send_all with it before the 'if' line. Then, make the "core.chat_send_player" a "return true, " again. 17:11 germanuel24 Okay thanks 17:13 germanuel24 Is there a way to check what the entered amount is? 17:13 germanuel24 I'd like to limit the values if possible 17:15 germanuel24 I'm guessing string.match()? 17:15 ElectronLibre If you want to limit the values you should modify "partiality" before it's inserted into the string. 17:16 hoodedice did you mean: strcmp() 17:17 ElectronLibre As far as I can remember it's the actual value used to determine the stack's count. You should check its value and decrease it if necessary before the call to inv:add_item() 17:19 germanuel24 So like elseif leftover:get_count() >= 100 then ??? 17:31 germanuel24 elseif itemstack:get_count() > 100 wouldn't work cause a regular stack can only have 99... so if i only want the player to be able to get 99 max i need to set it to 98? 17:38 ElectronLibre Some stacks can have more than 99 items, some less. 17:39 ElectronLibre What is your reason for limiting the amount though? 17:40 ElectronLibre (Besides preventing moderators from obtaining gigantic stacks; which I kind of understand) 17:41 Fixer it can be more than 99 17:41 Fixer i play on server that has some stacks sizes up to 600 or so 17:41 germanuel24 I don't like to give ANY player too much control, so i also limit what players can add to their/others inventories 17:42 germanuel24 Will this work? if leftover:get_count() >= 100 then return false, "You cannot add that many items at once!" end 17:42 ElectronLibre It's kind of useless since, rather than obtaining 1 stack of 9900 someone could give themselves 100 stacks of 99. 17:43 ElectronLibre leftover is the stack of items that couldn't make it into the inventory. 17:43 germanuel24 So 100 is 990? 17:43 ElectronLibre You should check values that are before its initialisation. 17:44 ElectronLibre Stricly speaking 100 ~= 990; but you probably get the idea. They'll just give more normal stacks. 17:44 germanuel24 But how can i extract the amount from the itemname players enter... 17:45 ElectronLibre It's done earlier in the code, I think. 17:45 ElectronLibre Let me check that. 17:47 ElectronLibre Well... It's actually not.. 17:47 ElectronLibre BUT, the string is converted into an itemstack. 17:47 ElectronLibre Which is incidently called 'itemstack', you can get the count by using 'itemstack:get_count()' 17:48 germanuel24 So itemstack:get_count() IS the total amount the player enters? 17:49 ElectronLibre Yep it is. 17:51 ElectronLibre And leftover is the itemstack returned by inv:add_item; that function's returned value is usually ignored, but when a stack couldn't completly fit into an inventory's list, then as much of it as possible is added and the part that couldn't make it is returned as that itemstack. 19:27 hoodedice !up xanadu 19:27 MinetestBot hoodedice: invalid address 19:32 KrimZon_ when an item is worn out, is its deletion done by lua or c++? 19:46 Calinou KrimZon_, I think C++, but no guarantees 19:46 Calinou it might be builtin Lua code 19:46 Calinou (builtin/ folder) 19:48 Ronsor` ok 19:48 Ronsor` so, now that my connection is better, who wants to join my semi-private server 19:49 Ronsor` mods: mobs_redo, pmobs, denaid (protection) 19:49 Ronsor` survival mode, almost vanilla 20:06 Fixer denaid? 20:10 KrimZon_ ahh, it looks like it's done in the engine when set_wear is called 21:17 Ronsor` back 22:35 DI3HARD139 Is there a way to limit the debug.txt to errors/failures/warnings only? 22:35 DI3HARD139 Keep having to delete 2+GB debug files daily 22:37 nm0i_ logrotate is your friend. 22:40 DI3HARD139 hmmm.... interesting 22:49 Wayward1 DI3HARD139: perhaps try "debug_log_level = error" or "warning" in minetest.conf 22:50 DI3HARD139 I was wondering if there was a setting for that. Gonna have a look at the api again 22:50 DI3HARD139 tyu 22:50 DI3HARD139 ty* 22:51 Wayward1 np 22:56 DI3HARD139 Wayward1: Is there a setting for action[main]? 22:56 Wayward1 action, i believe 22:57 DI3HARD139 would that also include the [serverthread] aswell? Im trying to filter out the [serverthread] portion 22:57 Wayward1 hmm, not sure about that one... 22:57 Wayward1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/180e9a103aaa88e34f6679e2c8ef3d9d92c69ba8/builtin/settingtypes.txt#L1153 23:18 paramat Preuk_away in any mapgen you can use 'sheet ore' to place layers of material of any thickness at any depth 23:22 Fixer paramat, nice, is it possible to band it? 23:22 paramat yeah alternating with stone is possible, there's a thread in the forum about this 23:23 paramat but going from one custom material to another would be at mapchunk borders 23:25 Fixer paramat, smth like that 23:25 Fixer http://qjegh.lyellcollection.org/content/44/4/419/F2.large.jpg 23:26 Fixer paramat, startup mapgen idea: simulate at least basicly real geology 23:27 paramat those varying divisions can't be done by sheetore, all divisions would be along chunk borders 23:28 bashterm clear 23:28 bashterm hello 23:28 Fixer paramat, so custom functions are needed? 23:45 paramat http://i.imgur.com/F4NUvNe.png watershed has ore and sandstone strata 23:46 Fixer paramat, wow, y-x mapz? 23:47 paramat yeah thats the numpy minetestmapper 23:47 Fixer paramat, where is ore? 23:48 paramat the thin dotted lines 23:48 Fixer ah 23:50 Fixer paramat, i'm curious, can you show same thing for mapgen7 and valleys? 23:51 DI3HARD139 Is there a precompiled version of minetest for windows that doesn't use luajit? I tried compiling but for some reason Visual Studio 2015 isn't saving built files. 23:51 paramat i can't get numpy minetestmapper.py to work anymore unfortunately 23:51 DI3HARD139 and it completes with warnings/errors 23:51 paramat https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=8730&hilit=numpy 23:52 Fixer heh