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IRC log for #minetest, 2016-04-19

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Time Nick Message
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00:27 crazyR Anyone around?
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00:37 sofar sure
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00:42 crazyR Looking for opinions on Mapgen V7 to use for a new map? Is it considered stable?
00:42 crazyR Also is there a list anywhere of mods that are not compatable with it?
00:42 sofar I've been using it since a long time, never any problems with it
00:42 sofar it offers more mapgen modding features
00:42 sofar not less
00:42 crazyR What mods do you use with it? if you dont mind me asking?
00:43 sofar just look on the forums for paramat's mapgen mods
00:44 crazyR I am doing now. my concern is ive read a few times about it having trouble with the more tree's mod. trying to work out if that is still the case
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00:45 sofar fire up a new world and try it?
00:45 crazyR thats the plan, though id check up with you folk on here first though see if i could save my self 5 mins of time haha. :)
00:46 sofar I've stopped using moretrees a long time ago
00:48 crazyR Ahh understood, thanks for your input
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00:55 crazyR yep seems that more tree's isnt compatable with MGV7 yet. Il keep an eye its progress and go back to MGV6
00:56 DonBatman mg v7 has features well worth abandoning more trees. The rivers and mountains are awesome
00:58 crazyR My concern is that if 1 well established mod is incompatable with MGV7 how many other mods are there that will have issues with it.. My maps usually run alot of mods all of various trypes
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01:00 DonBatman I understand your concern. It is hard to have different mapgens work with different mods made by people that may or may not say which mapgens the mods work with
01:01 sofar I'm more of the camp that moretrees is overrated. it existed because people wanted more trees. They wanted 2 more trees, not 20, though
01:02 sofar which is why I added Aspen trees myself - I felt that it was the one thing that the mapgen lacked tree wise
01:02 sofar after that, I haven't used moretrees. it clutters the landscape and makes a hodgepodge
01:02 crazyR I do like the variety.. although i do agree that it can sometimes become messy lol
01:03 sofar one well-balanced and properly integrated tree does better than tens of random trees
01:03 crazyR thats true
01:03 DonBatman sofar I totally agree
01:04 crazyR how does technic & other mapgen based mods work. anyone had any issues with them?
01:04 crazyR with MGV7 i mean lol
01:05 crazyR *map changing mods
01:05 VanessaE sofar: a hodgepodge? :P
01:06 crazyR lol Hi VanessaE
01:06 DonBatman Hi VanessaE
01:06 VanessaE hi :)
01:06 sofar VanessaE: sorry, I don't let my personal tastes cloud my judgement though - I'll fix all your mod bugs if I can :D
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01:07 sofar I'm plenty supportive of people who do use them.
01:07 VanessaE my mods NEVER have bugs :)
01:07 DonBatman more trees is a great mod but not meant for everyone. It is subjective
01:07 sofar "undisclosed features"
01:07 VanessaE haha
01:07 VanessaE brb
01:07 crazyR ^ i think i will use that term as a replacement for bug reports on my websites lol
01:08 crazyR If anyone finds any undisclosed features please report them to: a@aaaa.a  <- that works
01:10 DonBatman lol crazyR
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01:22 paramat crazyR mgv7 terrain is stable, the biome system may change subtly in future though
01:23 crazyR paramat thanks for the heads up. Il do some testing over the next 3-4 days and see if i can break it before setting up a server lol.
01:23 paramat but the worst that can happen with biome system changes is occasional straight-edged biomes
01:24 paramat the biome system mgv7 uses is so developed you don't really need moretrees
01:24 crazyR Is there any improve to the speed of the mapgen? or is it pretty much the same
01:25 paramat and we will work on the incompatibility bug
01:25 crazyR in comparison to mgv6
01:26 paramat it's slower to generate but the bottleneck in MT is mesh generation so you won't notice much difference
01:26 paramat unless you are using a low power device
01:26 paramat you could disable mountains and rivers but then it's boring
01:27 crazyR hehe dont need to worry about server power :D
01:27 paramat good, mgv7 isn't particularlry slow
01:28 crazyR well then lets take a gamble... looks like ethicrush is going to be using MGV7
01:29 paramat yeah mgv6 is pretty boring in comparison
01:30 crazyR It served us well in the last server. but  my thoughts are that if im going to start ethicrush from scratch i might as well start on a newer mapgen that is going to last much longer
01:31 paramat you'll have many more biomes and an extra tree and wood type
01:31 paramat of course, rivers. and mountains that go above y=47
01:31 crazyR is there a way to reduce the random floating islands without damanging the mountains and cliffs?
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01:32 paramat yes with custom noise parameters, but this will affect the shape of the mountains, they'll be smoother
01:34 paramat you would reduce the 'persistence' mgv7_np_mountain = -0.6, 1, (250, 350, 250), 5333, 5, 0.63, 2.0 that's the 0.63
01:34 crazyR Thanks :)
01:34 paramat could reduce it to 0.5 or so
01:35 paramat or even 0.4
01:36 crazyR Il have a play around with it. thanks
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02:01 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Flowers: Make flower spread a public function to enable override ab7b7c7 https://git.io/vwOZj (2016-04-19T02:58:03+01:00)
02:01 MinetestBot [git] sofar -> minetest/minetest_game: Doors: Use LBM instead of ABM to convert doors. 80664f9 https://git.io/vwOne (2016-04-19T02:57:54+01:00)
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02:10 DI3HARD139 Is "GMP" required for compiling minetest?
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02:14 DonBatman DI3HARD139 check this for the dependencies. https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3837
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02:32 DI3HARD139 Thanks to whomever added links to the dlls for libvorbis, libvorbisfile and libogg on the wiki. Couldn't find those anywhere when I last attempted to compile on windows
02:37 DI3HARD139 still cant find the zlib library though
02:43 DI3HARD139 Where should I store all the dependencies?
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03:25 DonBatman sorry DI3HARD139 I do not know windows. I only know linux and barely
03:25 DI3HARD139 NP. I got all the others working. Just CURL being a pain in the rear now
03:30 DonBatman DI3HARD139 have you considered switching too linux?
03:32 DI3HARD139 I have but all other games I play wont run (DirectX) and I find it to be very limited in terms of customization. Ex. Just uninstalling the email app shouldnt have removed xterm, xfce task manager from xubuntu
03:33 DI3HARD139 xfce and task manager *
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03:41 DonBatman I am not sure of that. I use, as well as my family, Gnome Ubuntu and have been happy with it.
03:43 DonBatman I have been using Gnome Ubuntu for for over 4 years andhave not wanted windows. but it depends on what you do with your computer
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04:37 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Fire: Higher chance of removing flammable nodes e426f64 https://git.io/vwOEJ (2016-04-19T05:33:13+01:00)
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06:58 nyje Looks like the forums has crashed/ been hacked
06:58 nyje the mysql server has fallen down...
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07:04 LazyJ celeron55 mentioned that minetest.net was probably going to go down for maintenance around 5-9 UTC.
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09:54 germanuel24 Is it possible to protect objects? Boats/cars/carts etc
10:08 germanuel24 Is there a reason why the dev wiki does hp change like this? player:set_hp(math.max(player:get_hp() - 1, 0))
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10:21 sfan5 germanuel24: what would be the other way of doing hp change?
10:22 germanuel24 player:set_hp(player:get_hp() - 1) ?? i mean is the math.max necessary?
10:23 sfan5 depends
10:23 sfan5 if set_hp doesn't check the value
10:24 sfan5 and you do set_hp(-1) bad things might happen
10:25 germanuel24 I see and 2016-04-19 12:24:10: WARNING[Main]: Field "maxwear" is deprecated; replace with uses=1/maxwear does mean the function still works but is not recommended anymore?
10:27 germanuel24 I get that since i replaced stable with dev
10:28 sfan5 yes it means that
10:28 germanuel24 So the mod that uses it is not broken? Good
10:36 germanuel24 Is remove_node() really very reliable? Like when i want to restrict node placing in an area and want to remove the node right after placing when the player doesn't have permission
10:39 sfan5 iirc you can prevent placing the node
10:40 sfan5 calling remove_node after the player placed something is not the correct way to do protection
10:41 germanuel24 I tried return inside register_on_place_node() and it didnt work
10:41 germanuel24 Or do i need return false?
10:41 nyuszika7h why don't you try it
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10:44 germanuel24 Because my server is not a development one... i really don't want to take it offline every few hours just to test a functions return value without even knowing which one is right or wrong... the dev wiki doesn't say anything about it maybe the API.txt file mentions it and i overlooked it... but I'm not asking for a "complete code" in here just whether return value X is correct or not
10:52 crazyR germanuel24: You would be best creating a cloned dev server on a diffrent port. if only you are on the dev server then it would not affect the public one too much
10:52 crazyR *dont quote me on that though i have been known to be wrong before lol
10:55 germanuel24 Okay well the lua_api.txt does NOT even mention the prevention of node placing so all the server admins can do is guess?
10:56 germanuel24 It only mentions "return true to not take the item from stack"
11:04 germanuel24 Okay i tried it result: Neither return true or return false achive what i want so i'm just using remove_node() in the callback when i don't want it to be placed
11:07 germanuel24 What i need to know is if remove_node() does queue nodes correctly..like what if a player is crazy and tries to place 3 nodes within 1 server tick...will remove_node() remember ALL placed nodes and remove them in order?
11:08 sfan5 yes
11:08 germanuel24 Ok thanks then i can use it
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11:09 sfan5 germanuel24: have you tried overriding minetest.is_protected insteadd?
11:12 germanuel24 sfan5, But what i want is globally... look in register_on_placenode() i check what kind of node was placed... if it is anything water/lava/firte related CHECK a file in the minetest folder and if it exists continue, if it does not exist, remove_node()... how can minetest.is_ptotected() help me there?
11:12 sfan5 so you haven't tried
11:13 germanuel24 I'm thinking is_protected() only supports the format position,owner or not?
11:14 sfan5 it only takes name and pos, correct
11:14 germanuel24 But i want SOME players to be able to place water/lava/fire and others not... how would i achive this with minetest.is_protected()?
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11:15 sfan5 you can't
11:15 germanuel24 See that's what i mean so my only option is remove_node(9
11:16 germanuel24 If you say the function is reliable and doesn't skip any placed nodes, then I'm happy
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11:19 germanuel24 Calinou, the compiling too ~ 40 minutes haha but at least no errors
11:19 germanuel24 took*
11:22 Calinou hi
11:22 Calinou germanuel24, it depends on your CPU
11:23 Calinou here it takes 5 minutes with all cores
11:23 germanuel24 Yeah people told me it should take ~ 15 on mine but seems like it's a little older than they thought
11:24 germanuel24 No CPU today is singlecore anymore..right?
11:26 Calinou yes
11:26 Calinou I'm going to upgrade my VPS to 8 cores, 16 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD soon :p
11:27 Krock mine is singlecore :3
11:27 Krock germanuel24, 40 minutse for the first time.. oh right. It took also long here
11:28 germanuel24 Kinda awkward when you know even the cheapest smartphone today has more performance than your PC lol
11:28 Krock but the next builds will be faster because the most data is already compiled
11:28 germanuel24 Oh i see... but i have to edit the default chat lines every time again right?
11:29 germanuel24 I mean the custom edits i made to the .cpp files
11:29 Krock no. you can make a seperate branch, push a commit with your change there and just grab all the updates into that branch
11:29 Krock so your master branch isn't hurted by that commit
11:29 Calinou germanuel24, cheap smartphones are not fast
11:29 Calinou actually, high-end smartphones are not fast either
11:30 Calinou a modern Celeron (€40) beats by far the fastest smartphone CPU out there
11:30 Calinou in any heavy task
11:30 Calinou x86 is much faster than ARM
11:30 Krock that's just because the mobile processor has a different power management
11:30 Krock sleeping all the time to save power
11:30 Calinou if an ARM CPU is as powerful as an x86 one, it'll use more power in most cases.
11:31 Calinou the "power curve" is steeper in ARM than in x86, but the "baseline" is lower in ARM
11:31 germanuel24 even 32-bit celeron is better than ARM CPU in phones?
11:31 Calinou all Celerons today are 64-bit
11:31 germanuel24 Mine is from 2005 lol
11:31 Calinou maybe not an old one, but a recent one (Haswell) sure will beat it
11:32 germanuel24 Is there like a golden rule about CPus? Like more cores = can do more tasks, higher clock = can do tasks faster?
11:34 germanuel24 Oh wait there can't be... Minetest only uses 1 core IIRC so having 8 doesn't help at all i guess
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11:35 Krock oh yes sure it helps. You can compile the next minetest version at the same time while watching a video and listening all tracks of your favourite album at once
11:36 Krock ...while playing Minetest.
11:36 germanuel24 Ok so more cores always equals to better multitasking?
11:36 Krock yes but it fails because you can't multitask
11:37 axaro hello
11:37 germanuel24 Hm...and higher clock = more speed per task
11:37 Krock hi axaro
11:38 Krock germanuel24, and more heat
11:38 germanuel24 Yeah i heard the reason why no CPU is higher clocked than 4 GHz is cause it would burn...or something
11:39 Krock nah. you can do it to like 10 GHz but somewhen the silicim won't switch anymore
11:39 Krock and that's the limit
11:39 germanuel24 So why do electronic companies stick to 3-4 Ghz?
11:39 Krock because it's not required to go higher
11:40 germanuel24 And probably more expensive too?
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11:41 Krock uhm.. not sure
11:41 Krock the mass of gold, silicium and other materials are the same
11:41 germanuel24 Could i just take any CPU and overclock it 50-100% without big damage?
11:42 Preuk saw a long time ago a P4 overclocked to 4 or 5 GHz for a few seconds ... liquid nitrogen required
11:42 Krock yeah, prepare liquid nitrogen
11:42 Krock but in fact it would work
11:42 Preuk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAVGs9FbmnM
11:43 germanuel24 Well my CPU is overclocked... it's usually 1.3 GHz now 2.6 GHz but that wasn't me..my brother gave it to me a few years back
11:43 Krock mine's underclocked. at 800MHz right now
11:44 Krock but that's no real underclock - just a simple ACPI setting
11:44 germanuel24 What are the symptoms of being too high? 100% CPU-load all the time?
11:45 Krock why would you have more CPU load if it's overclocked too high?!
11:45 germanuel24 So just more heat?
11:45 Krock heat, heat and heat
11:45 Krock maybe it would shut down at a specific temperature
11:46 germanuel24 Is 45° C alright when running programs?
11:46 Krock if you have a P4, 60°C are totally normal :P
11:46 germanuel24 Intel Celeron
11:46 Preuk Krock: shut down, wasn't always like that, back in the times you could fry AMD CPU like that
11:46 Krock it always depends on the clock rate, core voltage and processor type
11:47 Krock Preuk, yeah. See all those CPU burns on youtube :3
11:47 germanuel24 The BIOs says critical is 85° C ...could that be true?
11:47 Preuk Krock: had my 1GHz 1st-gen T-bird running at 1.2 or 1.3; no need for heating during winter (I really mean it)
11:48 Krock germanuel24, must be true. Could be measured in the processor or next to it.. who knows..?
11:48 Krock Preuk, same situation here :P
11:48 Krock oh well, it heats but I think the heating is still needed a bit
11:48 Preuk now I go for low-power, low-temp stuff, mush better WAF ;)
11:49 germanuel24 Since when do all CPUs have temperature measures built-in/next to them? Just curious
11:49 Preuk 15 years ago for Intel, 10 years ago for AMD i'd say
11:49 Krock I can only verify for 2005
11:50 germanuel24 Wow..and some cheap smartphones do not have a CPU temperature
11:50 Preuk that's around P4/Athlon FX generation
11:50 Preuk germanuel24: no need, when your jacket is burning, that means it's too hot
11:50 Krock got an Athlon 64 here and it has a temperature sensor
11:51 Krock burning stuff isn't hot but plasma is.
11:51 Preuk Krock: yes, they were introduced built-in around that time ; maybe on the last copper T-bird
11:51 Preuk Krock: that's like asking if you would die from shockwave, heat or rads when nuked
11:52 germanuel24 Haha... I'm just a bit concerned about my safety with this old machine... can i assume that the security methods in it are recent enough and it will not easily burn in flames?
11:52 Krock Preuk, or due loss of oxygen because the fire used all
11:53 Preuk germanuel24: if the whole PC is > 5 year old, the main "safety" concern would be the power block
11:53 Preuk Krock: while burning all of your body carbon?
11:54 germanuel24 Do power bricks not have security measures?
11:54 Krock Preuk, yeah. there are many ways to die
11:54 Preuk greeter: it's just that's the only device that handles high voltage/intensity
11:55 Krock older power bricks aren't that efficient at all
11:55 Preuk Krock: interested in a realistic "get nuked" mod for MT ? :)
11:55 Preuk and power unit perfs deteriorate pretty fast
11:55 Krock Preuk, oh yeah. Melting stone, radioactive particles and shockwaves everywhere
11:55 Preuk you should consider replacing it about as often as your HDD
11:56 germanuel24 The HDD is also very old i think...maybe 2010
11:56 Krock this means I never should replace it?
11:56 Preuk Krock: \o/
11:56 Preuk 5y max
11:56 Preuk rule of thumb
11:56 Krock oh well. It's older than 5 years but wasn't used a lot in 3 of them
11:57 Preuk mecanical parts + bitrotting
11:57 Preuk I try swapping my HDD every 3 to 5 y depending on usage and criticity
11:58 greeter hmm?
11:58 Krock I wouldn't care much if this HDD was destroyed suddenly. Got a backup HDD and plans for a new computer anyway :3
11:58 Preuk Krock: you should put your IDE drives out of their misery
11:59 Krock noo.. I love IDE
12:00 Preuk I like it too... on a shelf, next to SD-RAM and floppies
12:00 Krock gonna slap germanuel with a huge trout into #minetest-de next time
12:02 Preuk btw I say that, but my linux box is 10yo
12:03 Preuk time for retirement on 2nd HDD change
12:03 Preuk or
12:03 Krock 14 harddisks in my shelf.. from 125 MB IDE to 250 GB SATA all available
12:03 Krock *24
12:04 Krock Some people collect postage stamps, others collect HDDs ^^
12:04 Preuk nice! had to clean up last time I moved
12:04 Preuk dump all of my dead HDD
12:05 Preuk but still have a few 40-100G 2.5" IDE
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12:05 Krock wait.. 2.5", those are the laptop ones, right?
12:05 Preuk aka "BIG USB key" circa 2010
12:05 Preuk yep
12:06 Preuk still have my 1.4 centrino laying around as a backup terminal
12:06 Krock ^^
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12:19 Preuk out of curiosity, what's the lowest spec machine you run MT on?
12:19 Preuk I mean the client part
12:20 Krock It was a Celeron D 347 @ 3.06GHz - horrible to play Minetest on it. The graphics card was pretty good but the CPU weak as hell
12:21 Krock now I got a horrible video card and a better CPU -> better gameplay o.0
12:22 Preuk singleplayer or playing on a remote server
12:23 Krock does it matter? the load on a public server was just 2-5x higher
12:23 Krock than in singleplayer
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12:29 Preuk there no perf difference between single and client only? I thought that not having to generate the world, manage blocs, mods, etc. would make it faster
12:30 Krock but there are more players around, which means there are more block updates
12:30 Krock moving meshes etc
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12:34 twoelk I got a sort of an official statement that my machine (PIII 2,5 GHz , 1.7gb of RAM under WinXP) is to old for Minetest  http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2013-10-12#i_3368852 ; still using it to play mt though ;-P
12:37 Fixer PIII 2.5GHz? PIII max freq was 1.3GHz or so
12:38 Krock under 10 fps? ack
12:49 twoelk 35 fps on Xanadu just now
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12:55 tpe That fractal mapgen is amazing. At about 6500, 1150, 0 it looks like an awesome space craft. Are there different fractal types? This one look like some sort of 3D hypercomplex algorithm.
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14:52 Wuzzy What is an LBM?
14:54 Fixer Wuzzy, block modificator on block load I guess?
14:54 Fixer that runs once
14:54 Wuzzy and what does it do?
14:55 Fixer when block loads it executes something once
14:55 Fixer iirc
14:55 Fixer i think est31 knows better
14:55 Wuzzy hmm u mean, it can be used to replace legacy blocks?
14:57 Preuk Wuzzy: accoring to wiki that's why it was introduced
14:57 Preuk saw it on "register" page on dev wiki
14:58 Wuzzy :-(
14:58 Wuzzy lua_api.txt is worse
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14:59 Wuzzy "introducement" lol
14:59 Preuk http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.register_lbm
15:00 Wuzzy seriously, why is this not in lua_api.txt? :-(
15:01 Wuzzy i thought this file is supposed to be the official doc
15:01 Wuzzy but thanks btw
15:01 Preuk 02:00, 10 March 2016‎ Est31 (Talk | contribs)‎ . . (1,811 bytes) (+1,811)‎ . . (Created the page)
15:02 Preuk pretty new I guess you're using stable version ?
15:03 Wuzzy what?
15:03 Wuzzy this LBM stuff is not in stable
15:04 Wuzzy and yes, I use stable, but also dev version. I use both :)
15:04 Wuzzy but "stable" more often
15:14 Krock Wuzzy, but sometimes dev versions are more stable than the official stable version :P
15:15 Preuk 0.4.13 doesn't have LBM iirc
15:16 KrimZon_ is there any way to override tool destruction and have something else happen instead when it's used up?
15:18 Wuzzy not that I know of
15:18 Wuzzy not directly afaik
15:19 PilzAdam Wuzzy, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/b​lob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L3332-L3345
15:19 Wuzzy but you could set wear manually
15:19 PilzAdam how is this "not in the docs"
15:19 Wuzzy -_-
15:19 Wuzzy -_-'
15:19 Wuzzy It does not say a word  on what an LBM is
15:19 Wuzzy and is is way less info than in wiki
15:20 Wuzzy its there, but it needs improvement IMO. some wiki text could maybe be inserted here
15:20 PilzAdam compare it with the doc for ABM
15:21 PilzAdam and lua_api.txt is supposed to be shorter than the wiki
15:21 PilzAdam it's a short reference
15:22 Wuzzy I expect to at least give a sentence about the purpose on LBM. not more
15:22 Wuzzy and is lua_api.txt supposed to be of lower quality than the wiki?
15:23 Wuzzy of course background does not need to be written there
15:23 Wuzzy but IMO purpose should be clear
15:23 Wuzzy btw, how would you describe an LBM in 1 sentence? :P
15:23 Preuk "triggers on node loading"
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15:25 PilzAdam "purpose" is up to the mods that use it
15:25 Wuzzy i mean, what it *does*.
15:25 Wuzzy current doc is just a list of table entries :(
15:25 PilzAdam "LoadingBlockModifier"
15:26 Wuzzy sigh
15:26 twoelk joined #minetest
15:26 Wuzzy this can mean anything
15:26 Wuzzy such as "ActiveBlockModifier"
15:26 Wuzzy Hmm do you think this sentence explains it correctly?:
15:26 Wuzzy "The Loading Block Modifier consists of a function that is executed when the server loads nodes that match a passed filter."
15:26 Wuzzy (from the dev wiki)
15:27 PilzAdam it's executed for each node that matches
15:28 Wuzzy ok and why exactly does the lua_api.txt not say it? laziness? forgotten? too long? xD
15:28 Preuk Wuzzy: the one from main repo ?
15:29 Wuzzy yes, of course
15:29 Preuk weird
15:29 Wuzzy why? what do you have?
15:30 Preuk https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commi​t/d494733839e9cf6cb557462326ed21e7a58816c7
15:30 Preuk march 7
15:30 Preuk lua_api updated too
15:30 Wuzzy -_-
15:30 Wuzzy my issue is not that it is not there at all
15:31 Wuzzy my issue is that it is not explained
15:31 Wuzzy is is just a list of parameters but no word on what an LBM actually does
15:31 Wuzzy this makes lua_api.txt useless on its own. You have to go to the dev wiki :-(
15:31 Preuk indeed, my wrong
15:32 Wuzzy did you create LBMs?
15:32 Preuk nope
15:33 Preuk but there is no more "purpose" doc for other register functions, you're right
15:33 Preuk should be there instead of wiki
15:33 Wuzzy so long story short: An LBM is like an ABM, but it triggers when loading a node, not based on time or randomness
15:33 Wuzzy should be there, but not *instead*
15:34 Preuk i meant "as the primary source of information"
15:34 Wuzzy ok
15:34 Preuk do you feel like preparing a pull request for that?
15:35 Wuzzy no
15:36 Wuzzy ideally, coders document their own code. :-) LBMs are not my code, so ...
15:36 Wuzzy i am not sure if I fully understoof lbms anyways
15:37 Wuzzy i am not sure if I'll ever need LBMs xD
15:37 Preuk they would be great if there was a UBM trigger on un loading
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15:38 Preuk to save/restore dynamic state for complex blocks like machinery, etc.
15:38 Wuzzy sounds very esoteric. use case example?
15:39 Wuzzy (more concrete)
15:39 Preuk this would avoid the need for a lot of chunkloaders
15:39 Wuzzy whatloaders?
15:39 Preuk for example, imagine i build a mese clock
15:40 Preuk i want it to run continuously so time is "accurate" (just a stupid use case)
15:40 Preuk when every player leave zone, blocks would be unloaded, right?
15:40 Wuzzy yes, but only after a delay
15:40 Wuzzy default is 15 min iir
15:40 Preuk so mecanism would eventualy stop
15:40 Wuzzy iirc*
15:40 Wuzzy and the zone must also not be forceloaded
15:41 Preuk you come back 30 minutes later, it's loaded again but any "dynamic" state is lost
15:41 Preuk or you need forceload, which is bad for server perfs
15:41 Wuzzy the idea is you run the clock in background but the block does not need to be always there
15:41 Wuzzy right?
15:41 Wuzzy but i wonder if this needs UBMs. I mean, bones already work
15:41 Preuk if you could trigger an event when a chunk is about to unload, you could save these dynamic states to be restored on next loading
15:42 Wuzzy bones inventories become open to anyone after X seconds
15:42 Preuk i would for example save current displayed time and server time
15:42 Preuk then on loading compute server time delta to correct displayed time
15:42 Wuzzy bones work without any fancy *BMs so I dont see the point
15:43 Preuk bones is ABM, right ?
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15:43 Wuzzy no
15:43 Wuzzy no ABM, no LBM, no whateverBM :P
15:44 Preuk minetest.register_abm( {nodenames = {"bones:bones"},
15:44 Preuk init.lua l.57
15:44 Preuk triggers every 10 seconds
15:45 Preuk https://github.com/Bad-Command/b​ones/blob/master/bones/init.lua
15:45 Wuzzy not in my source code o_O
15:45 Preuk dunno, never used this mod, just took a look at repo
15:45 Wuzzy haha, very funny
15:45 Wuzzy Bad-Command -_-
15:45 Preuk no change since 2012
15:45 Preuk :)
15:45 Wuzzy this is not the official Minetest Game repo ...
15:46 Preuk nope, the one linked from forum
15:46 Preuk it's now in minetest-mods ?
15:46 Wuzzy bones is part of Minetest Game
15:46 Preuk aaah sorry :(
15:46 Wuzzy would be pointless in minetest-mods as far I know
15:47 Wuzzy oh this reminds me
15:47 Wuzzy I should probably drop some of my mods into this minetest-mods repo thing
15:47 Preuk on_timer = function(pos, elapsed)
15:47 Wuzzy because bugreports tend to pile up xD
15:47 Preuk didn't know about this one
15:47 sofar bones should be a nodetimer, really
15:47 Preuk init.lua l. 115
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15:48 Wuzzy hmmm does on_timer work even when the node is not loaded?
15:48 Preuk no clue, i'm really new here
15:48 swift110 joined #minetest
15:49 Wuzzy whatever
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15:50 Wuzzy I am not very active in Minetest atm. Currently, I am in my Hedgewars phase. xD
15:50 Samson22 joined #minetest
15:50 Wuzzy another reason for minetest-mods lol
15:53 Preuk currently having a look at worldgen, seeing what it would take to alter slightly v6 for example to add a lot more parameters
15:53 Wuzzy for instance?
15:54 Preuk namely to change "defaulting" to stone to different material depending on depth
15:54 Preuk clobs are nice, but not enough for my needs
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15:54 Wuzzy clobs?
15:55 Preuk not sure of the name... checking
15:55 Wuzzy blobs?
15:56 Preuk yes, blob and scatters
15:56 Wuzzy afaik Minetest has support for “veins”, much more interesting
15:57 Preuk i need stratae
15:57 Wuzzy imo we need a subgame with a lot more stone types
15:57 Wuzzy boring default stone is boring
15:57 Wuzzy but not just more stone
15:57 Wuzzy there should also be a nice layering which makes mining interesting
15:57 Preuk i want to setup a basic "paleontology" mod to dig stuff from different depth and time
15:57 Wuzzy not just 100% flat sheets based on height
15:58 swift110 joined #minetest
15:58 Wuzzy hey
15:58 swift110 joined #minetest
15:58 Preuk yes, but that would be a starts; i like what Gael did on valley generator
15:58 Wuzzy such a mod kinda exists already somewhere. not sure if it is what u want
15:58 Wuzzy we already have a subgame with boring flat layers
15:58 Wuzzy its called BFG
15:58 Preuk Wuzzy: i guess so, but part of the fun is finding how to do it ;)
15:58 Preuk i'd be playing MC if not for that :D
15:59 Wuzzy well
15:59 Wuzzy what Minetest needs is something which you can actually play. I am fed up by all those Minetest Game clones and sandbox subgames
15:59 Preuk i have a few geologists ready to trick me into making it real
16:00 Wuzzy there are only a few real games for Minetest, most are sandboxes
16:00 Preuk yep, when discovering MT, found quite a lot of "gameplay oriented" forks/clones
16:00 Wuzzy really?
16:00 Wuzzy I know only of one and it is Voxelands
16:00 Preuk freeminer, voxeland, etc.
16:00 Wuzzy the other big fork is Freeminer but it is not much different
16:01 Wuzzy Freeminer's default subgame is still a sandbox
16:01 Wuzzy no mobs, no challenge etc
16:01 Preuk better network, worse perfs
16:01 Wuzzy true, but has nothing to do with gameplay :P
16:01 Wuzzy i never really understood the minetest/freeminer split
16:01 Preuk climate, water, etc.
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16:02 Wuzzy probably it boils down to "politics" and people xD
16:02 Wuzzy the voxelands fork is totally understandable because it has a clear goal
16:02 Wuzzy sadly, Freeminer is GPLv3, Minetest is GPLv2+, so any Freeminer improvement is for Freeminer only, but Minetest improvements can be copied into Freeminer. :-(
16:03 Fixer Wuzzy, are you CDDA fun?
16:03 Wuzzy What kind of question is this? And who is CDDA fun?
16:03 Preuk maybe someone will start a donation campaign, funding, patreon, whatever to make a bigass game from minetest, but i guess API is not stable enough for that
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16:04 Fixer Wuzzy, do not try to hide %)
16:04 Wuzzy hahaha. "just throw big $$$ at it, and it will succeed"
16:04 Preuk not what i mean
16:04 Preuk but sandbox players won't be able to make a real game
16:04 Wuzzy I am not CDDA fun. I do play C:DDA, however. But it has been a LOOOOOONG time
16:05 Wuzzy hey, nothing against sandboxes. but i think minetest subgames need ... a change. :P
16:05 Preuk voxelands is a nice try for a core dev, but it's still empty, same for freeminer
16:05 Wuzzy voxelands is much "less" empty than Minetest Game and Freeminer's default
16:05 Fixer ? how
16:05 Wuzzy well, more stuff
16:05 Fixer in what regard?
16:06 Fixer not much
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16:06 Fixer imho default mtg lacks mobs and railcarts, thats it
16:06 Wuzzy yeah, at the end of the day, its still a sandbox
16:06 Preuk subgames are games, minetest is a sandbox ; i mean you could take 20 kids making sand castles, you wouldn't end up with one big castle
16:06 Wuzzy no
16:06 Wuzzy subgames are not automatically games
16:06 Fixer minetest is engine
16:07 Wuzzy most subgames are sandboxes, a few are games
16:07 Preuk gamedesign a a different world
16:07 Wuzzy example for a game: Hungry Games Plus
16:08 Wuzzy example for a non-game: Minetest Game (the irony!)
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16:18 Preuk I'll see if we cna come up with a "real" game concept, but that's not our current goal; we just want to dig dino bones (yeah, scientists are just like kids)
16:18 Preuk gotta run
16:26 PilzAdam Wuzzy, bad games are games, too
16:26 PilzAdam don't be racist against games
16:27 Wuzzy minetest game is not a game
16:27 Wuzzy its a sandbox
16:27 Wuzzy e.g. games have some kind of challenge. minetest game does not have challenges.
16:28 PilzAdam a sandbox is not a game?
16:28 sofar Wuzzy: the challenge is: don't get bored!
16:28 Wuzzy sandboxes and games are different things
16:28 rubenwardy A game is structured form of play, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes used as an educational tool.
16:28 PilzAdam not dying is a challenge in Minetest game
16:28 rubenwardy !w game
16:29 rubenwardy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game
16:29 rubenwardy I disagree that there needs to be concrete goals
16:29 sofar goals != challenge
16:29 sofar sorry, lua-translate: goals ~= challenge
16:29 Fixer not dying? it does not even have hunger and mobs :)
16:29 rubenwardy Ok then, Minetest can have challenge
16:30 PilzAdam TotalBiscuit defines games as an interactive medium with a "failure state"
16:30 rubenwardy ie: building big buildings
16:30 Wuzzy well, your definition just lumps together games and sandboxes. there is a funamental difference between, lets say, the powder toy and tetris
16:30 sofar I love these vocabulary-alignment group exercises :)
16:30 rubenwardy this is basically semantics
16:31 Wuzzy anyways, you cant say that The Hungry Games Plus and Minetest Game are both equal
16:31 Wuzzy i.e. there is no winnter in minetest game. you can never "win"
16:31 PilzAdam all games should be equal; stop game racism now!
16:32 Fixer VanessaE, http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-04-19-the-6​4-is-an-unofficial-reimagining-of-the-commodore-64
16:32 PilzAdam Wuzzy, there is no winning in tetris, is there?
16:32 PilzAdam or pacman
16:32 sofar flappy bird
16:32 Wuzzy but there is a goal: get highscore. minetest game does not have any goal
16:33 Wuzzy hey, i am not saying sandboxes are bad
16:33 rubenwardy The player makes the goal
16:33 Wuzzy this is the perfect example of a sandboxes
16:33 sofar so autocad is a game?
16:33 PilzAdam I don't think games have to have explicit goals
16:33 PilzAdam they must have a way of failing, but not a way of winning
16:34 Wuzzy no autocad is a CAD tool. if you call everything with interactivity a “game”, haha lol
16:34 Wuzzy anyways, I am just hoping for more games in Minetest.
16:34 PilzAdam the "goal" of the player is to not get into the "failure" state
16:34 rubenwardy MTG isn't a very good game if it is
16:34 rubenwardy one
16:35 Wuzzy where “game” = interactive subgame with goal and/or challenge and meaningful decisions
16:35 Wuzzy MTG isn't a very good sandbox either imo :/
16:35 PilzAdam "meaningful decisions" are required for a game?
16:35 Wuzzy well, its just what i wish would exist for minetest
16:36 Fixer http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-02-18-n​ow-theres-a-sinclair-zx-spectrum-vega-handheld lol
16:36 Wuzzy there are a few subgames which match this criteria. very very few
16:36 PilzAdam Wuzzy, https://github.com/PilzAdam/score do you consider this to be a "game"?
16:36 Wuzzy hmmmm
16:36 Wuzzy does it work?
16:37 PilzAdam yes, try it
16:37 Fixer hmmmmmm
16:37 Wuzzy the mine goal is to mine score. WHAT?
16:37 PilzAdam its boring after 10 minutes, but it is the most fundamental goal
16:37 PilzAdam Wuzzy, *main goal
16:37 Fixer it is nice to have score in minetest: how much you lived, placed blocks, killed mobs, walked, mined
16:38 Wuzzy well, games* do not need to be complex
16:38 PilzAdam Wuzzy, "score" is an "ore" that you have to find and mine
16:38 PilzAdam the naming implies it's role in the gameplay
16:38 Wuzzy well according to the description this thing is probably a game. maybe a boring one but still a game lol
16:39 Wuzzy maybe I should say "game*" instead of "game" because our definitions differ xD
16:39 PilzAdam it's basically an experiment to do non-minetest_game stuff in the Minetest engine
16:40 Wuzzy ok
16:40 Wuzzy anyways, sorry for the "game" confusion :/
16:40 Wuzzy I just think there are soooooo many sandboxes
16:40 Wuzzy and soooo few actual challenges
16:42 rubenwardy If I were to make a subgame, I would make it less of a sandbox and more of a challange
16:42 rubenwardy I'd like to make a game where you, at the start, are given 2-3 NPC colonists to look after
16:43 Wuzzy go on
16:43 rubenwardy But so little time :(
16:43 sofar lol
16:43 rubenwardy rimworld would be my inspiration
16:43 sofar so little to do and so much time! strike that! reverse it!
16:43 Wuzzy That's the "game" of life. xD
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16:57 LNJ2GO http://i.imgur.com/uYifFck.jpg         #mgv7
16:58 germanuel24 Can someone help? I want to have public chat messages when my moderators use /give or /giveme but i cannot simply add core.chat_send_all() to the give_handler in chatcommands.lua http://pastebin.com/1TxbUUmk
17:01 Wuzzy minetest.chat_send_all?
17:02 ElectronLibre It should be the same function as core.chat_send_all,
17:02 Wuzzy then both should work, right? o_O
17:02 ElectronLibre Try adding it before "if giver == receiver then", so that it's run for everyone.
17:02 * Krock slaps germanuel24 with a huge trout directly into #minetest-de
17:03 Wuzzy oh
17:03 Wuzzy lol Krock
17:03 Krock ^^
17:03 ElectronLibre Well that's a bad beating..
17:03 Krock actually very bad indeed. He didn't join it yet
17:04 Krock must try again if this won't work with the first troutslap
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17:04 Wuzzy maybe you need a squid or even a whale
17:04 germanuel24 Since i consider my English to be decent plus the German channel does not have as many users i rather go to here with my questions
17:04 Wuzzy This video is pretty awesome: https://youtu.be/4omndVZijLc
17:05 Wuzzy wheee! nodes flying in the air =)
17:05 Calinou hi
17:05 Krock hi Calinou
17:05 Wuzzy hello world
17:06 ElectronLibre germanuel24, try adding "core.chat_send_all("%s invoked give for %q %s":format(giver, stackstring, partiality))" before the if statement.
17:07 germanuel24 Can i not just use giver, receiver and stackstring variables?
17:07 germanuel24 core.chat_send_all("[Server]: "..giver.." added "..stackstring.." to their inventory.")
17:07 ElectronLibre You could also do that yes.
17:08 ElectronLibre In fact, looking at your code, there is a way to keep what's in and make it work the way you want it to work.
17:10 ElectronLibre Do you see that second "return true, <string>"? Take the string, and add a call to core.chat_send_all with it before the 'if' line. Then, make the "core.chat_send_player" a "return true, <string>" again.
17:11 germanuel24 Okay thanks
17:13 germanuel24 Is there a way to check what the entered amount is?
17:13 germanuel24 I'd like to limit the values if possible
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17:15 germanuel24 I'm guessing string.match()?
17:15 ElectronLibre If you want to limit the values you should modify "partiality" before it's inserted into the string.
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17:16 hoodedice did you mean: strcmp()
17:17 ElectronLibre As far as I can remember it's the actual value used to determine the stack's count. You should check its value and decrease it if necessary before the call to inv:add_item()
17:19 germanuel24 So like elseif leftover:get_count() >= 100 then ???
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17:31 germanuel24 elseif itemstack:get_count() > 100 wouldn't work cause a regular stack can only have 99... so if i only want the player to be able to get 99 max i need to set it to 98?
17:38 ElectronLibre Some stacks can have more than 99 items, some less.
17:39 ElectronLibre What is your reason for limiting the amount though?
17:40 ElectronLibre (Besides preventing moderators from obtaining gigantic stacks; which I kind of understand)
17:41 Fixer it can be more than 99
17:41 Fixer i play on server that has some stacks sizes up to 600 or so
17:41 germanuel24 I don't like to give ANY player too much control, so i also limit what players can add to their/others inventories
17:42 germanuel24 Will this work? if leftover:get_count() >= 100 then return false, "You cannot add that many items at once!" end
17:42 ElectronLibre It's kind of useless since, rather than obtaining 1 stack of 9900 someone could give themselves 100 stacks of 99.
17:43 ElectronLibre leftover is the stack of items that couldn't make it into the inventory.
17:43 germanuel24 So 100 is 990?
17:43 ElectronLibre You should check values that are before its initialisation.
17:44 ElectronLibre Stricly speaking 100 ~= 990; but you probably get the idea. They'll just give more normal stacks.
17:44 germanuel24 But how can i extract the amount from the itemname players enter...
17:45 ElectronLibre It's done earlier in the code, I think.
17:45 ElectronLibre Let me check that.
17:47 ElectronLibre Well... It's actually not..
17:47 ElectronLibre BUT, the string is converted into an itemstack.
17:47 ElectronLibre Which is incidently called 'itemstack', you can get the count by using 'itemstack:get_count()'
17:48 germanuel24 So itemstack:get_count() IS the total amount the player enters?
17:49 ElectronLibre Yep it is.
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17:51 ElectronLibre And leftover is the itemstack returned by inv:add_item; that function's returned value is usually ignored, but when a stack couldn't completly fit into an inventory's list, then as much of it as possible is added and the part that couldn't make it is returned as that itemstack.
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19:27 hoodedice !up xanadu
19:27 MinetestBot hoodedice: invalid address
19:32 KrimZon_ when an item is worn out, is its deletion done by lua or c++?
19:46 Calinou KrimZon_, I think C++, but no guarantees
19:46 Calinou it might be builtin Lua code
19:46 Calinou (builtin/ folder)
19:48 Ronsor` ok
19:48 Ronsor` so, now that my connection is better, who wants to join my semi-private server
19:49 Ronsor` mods: mobs_redo, pmobs, denaid (protection)
19:49 Ronsor` survival mode, almost vanilla
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20:06 Fixer denaid?
20:10 KrimZon_ ahh, it looks like it's done in the engine when set_wear is called
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22:35 DI3HARD139 Is there a way to limit the debug.txt to errors/failures/warnings only?
22:35 DI3HARD139 Keep having to delete 2+GB debug files daily
22:37 nm0i_ logrotate is your friend.
22:40 DI3HARD139 hmmm.... interesting
22:49 Wayward1 DI3HARD139: perhaps try "debug_log_level = error" or "warning" in minetest.conf
22:50 DI3HARD139 I was wondering if there was a setting for that. Gonna have a look at the api again
22:50 DI3HARD139 tyu
22:50 DI3HARD139 ty*
22:51 Wayward1 np
22:56 DI3HARD139 Wayward1: Is there a setting for action[main]?
22:56 Wayward1 action, i believe
22:57 DI3HARD139 would that also include the [serverthread] aswell? Im trying to filter out the [serverthread] portion
22:57 Wayward1 hmm, not sure about that one...
22:57 Wayward1 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/b​lob/180e9a103aaa88e34f6679e2c8ef3d9d92​c69ba8/builtin/settingtypes.txt#L1153
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23:18 paramat Preuk_away in any mapgen you can use 'sheet ore' to place layers of material of any thickness at any depth
23:22 Fixer paramat, nice, is it possible to band it?
23:22 paramat yeah alternating with stone is possible, there's a thread in the forum about this
23:23 paramat but going from one custom material to another would be at mapchunk borders
23:25 Fixer paramat, smth like that
23:25 Fixer http://qjegh.lyellcollection.or​g/content/44/4/419/F2.large.jpg
23:26 Fixer paramat, startup mapgen idea: simulate at least basicly real geology
23:27 paramat those varying divisions can't be done by sheetore, all divisions would be along chunk borders
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23:28 bashterm clear
23:28 bashterm hello
23:28 Fixer paramat, so custom functions are needed?
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23:45 paramat http://i.imgur.com/F4NUvNe.png watershed has ore and sandstone strata
23:46 Fixer paramat, wow, y-x mapz?
23:47 paramat yeah thats the numpy minetestmapper
23:47 Fixer paramat, where is ore?
23:48 paramat the thin dotted lines
23:48 Fixer ah
23:50 Fixer paramat, i'm curious, can you show same thing for mapgen7 and valleys?
23:51 DI3HARD139 Is there a precompiled version of minetest for windows that doesn't use luajit? I tried compiling but for some reason Visual Studio 2015 isn't saving built files.
23:51 paramat i can't get numpy minetestmapper.py to work anymore unfortunately
23:51 DI3HARD139 and it completes with warnings/errors
23:51 paramat https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic​.php?f=14&amp;t=8730&amp;hilit=numpy
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23:52 Fixer heh
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