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IRC log for #minetest, 2016-02-26

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Time Nick Message
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00:58 blert easy way to convert vm_index into bm_index?
01:01 MinetestBot [git] RealBadAngel -> minetest/minetest: Mapblock mesh: Allow to use VBO f9d7277 https://git.io/v200N (2016-02-26T00:51:01Z)
01:01 MinetestBot [git] RealBadAngel -> minetest/minetest: Remove new_style_water 8eb7ddb https://git.io/v200A (2016-02-26T00:50:46Z)
01:01 MinetestBot [git] rubenwardy -> minetest/minetest: Cache some settings 4efb7eb https://git.io/v200x (2016-02-26T00:50:39Z)
01:04 Fixer ._.
01:13 OldCoder Fixer, ?
01:13 Fixer VBO is finally here, amen
01:14 Fixer for years it was elusive
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02:44 Hijiri >sqlite sum function returns NULL for empty results rather than 0
02:44 Hijiri aaaa
02:44 Hijiri do all sql DBs do this?
02:45 est31 dunno
02:45 est31 guess the answer is no
02:45 est31 because there is huge difference in behaviour of SQL DBs
02:45 est31 large lock in effect :)
02:47 Hijiri well coalesce exists apparently
02:47 Hijiri I'll just use that
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05:49 MinetestBot [git] Jeija -> minetest/minetest: Fix minetest.request_insecure_environment() always returning nil 033a510 https://git.io/v20FM (2016-02-26T06:36:48+01:00)
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05:53 sofar http://i.imgur.com/AihRZKv.png
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09:22 Niebieski Hey, is it possible that Minetest enters Google summer of code this year ?
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10:52 yyt16384 VBO is giving big FPS boost for me
10:53 yyt16384 I can get 60 FPS in the most heavy scene
10:53 yyt16384 And one month ago I'm only getting 10
10:54 yyt16384 Maybe I can enable some eye-candy options now
10:56 VanessaE don't enable shaders yet.
10:56 VanessaE the benefits offered by the VBO commit are best without.
10:56 VanessaE also make note of your view range - it's now a fixed distance (instead of auto-tuning)
10:57 VanessaE so you may even be able to increase it
10:58 yyt16384 I'm not going to increase view range
10:58 yyt16384 It's 48 now, enough for me
10:58 VanessaE ok.
10:58 VanessaE fwiw, I get about 80% better frame rate for a given distance, now.
10:59 Obani yyt16384, the thing is with fixed viewing range, lag is again minimized
10:59 yyt16384 I was having fixed distance before
10:59 est31 with fixed viewing range lag is not minimized
11:00 est31 that was what adjusting viewing range was about
11:00 est31 a fixed FPS
11:00 est31 and then try to get there
11:00 est31 using varying viewing range
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11:04 VanessaE (frankly I'm a little ... disappointed ... by the removal of the auto-tune feature)
11:11 Obani why ?
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11:17 Obani VanessaE, jumping mod still works in 0.4.13 ? 0.o
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12:38 Taoki Hi... I have a mapgen related question: How do I make sure that the node_dust defined in minetest.register_biome does not spawn on top of some decorational nodes? Like for instance if I have grass on the biome, how can I prevent snow blocks appearing on top of grass?
12:38 CWz VanessaE, what does auto tune do?
12:41 VanessaE it used to vary your view distance according to your FPS
12:41 VanessaE too much FPS, it increases the view distance, and vice-versa.  removed recently as it didn't work well.
12:42 Taoki VanessaE: It did work well for me. But apparently some people thought otherwise...
12:44 CWz what about quicktune? that is accessed by pressing the page up and page down key. which is that used for
12:45 VanessaE no idea
12:46 CWz it's been there for years
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13:41 Wuzzy What is contained in the “insecure envinronment”?
13:41 Wuzzy I get it by calling minetest.request_insecure_environment()
13:45 est31 Wuzzy, you get stuff to escape the lua sandbox
13:45 est31 its planned to get enabled by default in the future
13:45 Wuzzy Is the minetest table contained as well?
13:46 est31 yes
13:46 Wuzzy really?
13:46 est31 i think so not sure
13:46 Wuzzy weird, in my experiments it was not contained
13:46 Wuzzy I need to escape the directory restriction, to be precise
13:47 Wuzzy and need to call minetest.create_schematic, which contains a filename
13:47 Wuzzy to be precise, I want to write schematics in a mod directory
13:47 Wuzzy in a subdirectory actually
13:48 Wuzzy btw, is it permitted to write into subdirectories without any insecure environment?
13:48 est31 its permitted to write to world dir
13:48 est31 but not to mod dir
13:49 Wuzzy ok but how to do it with the insecure enviroment
13:49 Wuzzy ?
13:49 est31 perhaps its even permitted to mod dir
13:49 Wuzzy no
13:49 est31 but only during the load
13:49 est31 and only for the curren mod
13:49 Wuzzy okay, I am asking this for the Tutorial subgame
13:49 Wuzzy It does not work with mod security and I am trying to fix it
13:50 Wuzzy Loading data works fine now, does not require insecure environment
13:50 Wuzzy but there are two commands /tsave and /tsave_entities which write world data into mod dir
13:50 est31 why do you need to save to the mod dir?
13:51 Wuzzy the world data is in mod directory to load the world data from schematics
13:51 Wuzzy it is used for updating the map
13:51 Wuzzy its complicated, its how the tutorial works
13:51 Wuzzy previously, the tutorial shipped the world as a world directory
13:52 Wuzzy now it is stored in mod dir and the mod will load it and generate the map from there
13:52 Wuzzy and saving is needed whenever someone want to update/edit the world
13:52 Wuzzy its complicated xD
13:52 Wuzzy anyways, it seems that my insecure environment does, in fact, NOT contain minetest table :-(
13:53 Wuzzy which means that insecure_environment.minet​est.create_schematic(bla, bla, bla) does not work
13:53 Wuzzy but insecure_environment.io.open(whatever) works
13:54 Wuzzy minetest.create_schematic alone does not work cuz Minetest comlpains I am outside of permitted directories
13:54 Wuzzy Do you think it is a bug I don't have the minetest table in my insecure env.?
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14:12 stormchaser3000_ hi
14:13 stormchaser3000 there we go
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15:01 est31 Wuzzy, have you checked that the insecure environment returns for you what you need?
15:04 est31 Wuzzy, you might want to try "core" instead of "minetest"
15:05 est31 even though Wuzzy I dont think you need the insecure environment for storing schematics
15:05 est31 I mean you dont need to store schematics for the tutorial
15:05 est31 not in the mod dir
15:05 est31 perhaps in the world dir, i dont know
15:05 est31 but there is no use case I can think of where you should put it in the mod dir
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15:36 Megaf Hi
15:36 Megaf What do you prefer? sire.com/subsite or subsite.site.com?
15:37 everamzah documentaries.reddit.com or reddit.com/r/documentaries
15:37 everamzah depends on my mood
15:37 everamzah (don't forget /r/lectures)
15:41 kaadmy is there interest in recreating the "original" minetest?
15:41 kaadmy ie. 0.2-0.3?
15:42 Megaf we have that already
15:42 CWz voxelands
15:42 Megaf indeed
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16:17 nanovad .
16:26 Wuzzy est31: core didn't work either. I tried insecure_environment.core.create_schematic. For some reason Minetest complains about accessing an external file.
16:26 Wuzzy Whyyyyyyyyy? I thought that's the point of insecure environment?
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17:10 kaadmy redcrab has posted again on the forum on the redcrab server thread!
17:10 Indohmo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
17:10 kaadmy previous post was june 2015
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18:37 paramat Taoki, dust won't be placed on top of 'buildable_to' nodes (long grasses, flowers), so control it that way
18:38 Taoki paramat: Nice! Though, does that mean grass will make holes in the ground?
18:38 Taoki eg: Flowers cause dust nodes not to spawn there.
18:38 Taoki Or do they spawn on top of dust nodes?
18:38 kaadmy Taoki: i think so
18:38 Taoki ok
18:38 kaadmy i think they're ignored
18:38 Taoki Better than nothing I guess
18:38 paramat correct
18:39 paramat not ideal but simple
18:39 paramat for a snowy biome you would want 'dirt with snow' at ground level anyway
18:40 paramat ie as 'top' node
18:41 Taoki paramat: Problem is that the biomes I'm using have dirt_with_grass as the duster node. Yes, I know that's not ideal... I just need the other slots to be free.
18:41 Taoki I use node_top to spawn dirt.
18:42 Taoki Sadly you can't define your own layers.
18:44 Taoki The story's a bit like this: My game will have a more unique setup. The normal node is of course stone. But on top of stone comes gravel. On top of that gravel comes normal dirt. Then on top of that dirt, dirt_with_grass.
18:45 Taoki Ah. A workaround might be to spawn only default:dirt. Then in on_generate, I check each default:dirt node and if it's topside, I turn it into default:dirt_with_grass. I have my own dirt <-> dirt_with_grass function anyway (coded my own ABM), so I could do it in its definition function.
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18:57 ShadowNinja kaadmy: Maybe he'll ban the bot that's been spamming his forum...
18:59 paramat ah, not enough biome layers for you
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19:49 magnate Hi folks. Every time I create a world in minetest, it has no trees or grass, only water and stone. Makes it hard to craft a pickaxe! Am I doing something wrong?
19:50 Krock mapgen v5 or v7, I guess
19:50 sfan5 yes you are doing something wrong
19:50 magnate I've tried v6 and v7
19:50 sfan5 the question is what
19:51 magnate ok
19:51 Krock v6 gives you regular terrain all the time
19:51 magnate Is it a config setting somewhere?
19:51 magnate What is the best mapgen for a normal (diverse) world?
19:51 sfan5 usually not
19:51 sfan5 v6
19:51 paramat you using MT v0.4.13?
19:51 magnate 0.4.10 (Debian Jessie package)
19:51 paramat ah
19:52 paramat mgv5 mgv7 are just stone and water back then
19:52 paramat use mgv6 or use latest MT version
19:52 magnate ok thx
19:53 paramat there should be recent builds available somewhere, or compile it yourself
19:53 everamzah https://packages.debian.org/je​ssie-backports/games/minetest
19:54 magnate thx everamzah
19:54 everamzah you're quite welcome
19:56 paramat in 0.4.13 mgv7 is the most developed mapgen
20:00 magnate Time to upgrade to stretch! Thanks all ...
20:01 everamzah be bold
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20:12 Cava #minetest
20:18 everamzah you are here
20:20 Cava ciao
20:21 everamzah hello
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20:29 Mati^1 hi all
20:30 Mati^1 sorry but my englisch ist not too god but i have BAD massage about RealBadAngel Maciej Kasatkin
20:31 Mati^1 if someone is online from minetest cooder ?
20:34 paramat bad message?
20:34 paramat i am a core dev who works with RBA
20:37 Mati^1 moment
20:38 paramat is he in hospital again?
20:39 Mati^1 http://wloclawek.naszemiasto.pl/artykul/dr​amat-na-ul-piekarskiej-straznicy-miejscy-p​omogli-uratowac,3659920,art,t,id,tm.html
20:39 Mati^1 yesterday
20:40 Mati^1 in the hospital
20:41 Mati^1 massive heart attack
20:42 Mati^1 not regained consciousness
20:42 sofar oh goodness
20:42 sofar that's terrible news :()
20:42 Mati^1 this foto ist real in web
20:43 Mati^1 for me too 26yers best frend
20:44 Mati^1 transported to another city Torun
20:45 Mati^1 30min resuscitation :(
20:45 sofar thank you for telling us. Paramat and me and others talked with him on a daily basis
20:45 paramat very worrying news. thanks for letting us know. we knew he was having heart problems
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20:48 Mati^1 no problem :( how I will know something more, will write
20:48 miloszss joined #minetest
20:48 sofar thank you
20:48 Mati^1 okay
20:49 Mati^1 bay bay Regards
20:49 paramat my thoughts and best wishes will be with him
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21:37 ssieb paramat: do you have any idea why clay doesn't get generated on either v6 or v7 mapgen?  I see it listed as an "ore" in the mapgen.lua file
21:40 paramat it does, but was a little rare in 0.4.13 stable, fixed now
21:40 ssieb ok, fixed in minetest_game or engine?
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21:41 paramat it needed fixes in both
21:41 ssieb and it's more than rare, it's very non-existant on any games I've tested  (I scanned the database)
21:41 paramat weird should be some
21:42 ssieb I used a tool to look in the world database and it didn't find any blocks with "clay" in the name
21:45 ssieb paramat: is there any information on what the difference is between the mapgens and which one should be used?
21:48 paramat no :) try them to see the difference. they should all be used, but mgv7 is the most developed and most complex
21:51 paramat mgv6 is 'stable', we promise to not break worlds by changing the mapgen. mgv5/mgv7 are near-stable. mgvalleys is still in development
21:52 paramat flat and fractal are near-stable
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22:05 ssieb paramat: last time I was using minetest (probably about a year ago) mgv7 was only stone :-)  It does have some interesting features: http://sieb.net/mtv7square.png
22:05 paramat heh those are fixed now
22:06 paramat they were slices of dungeons
22:06 paramat i liked them though, there were just too many of them
22:06 ssieb minetest monoliths
22:06 paramat exactly
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22:22 sofar hmm, I'm glad people like the fencegate model. I wanted to make a gate that is easily recognizable and different enough, but also something that blends in well with fences
22:22 sofar I had seen blockmen's gate but I didn't care for it, it looked off too much
22:38 paramat yeah the triangular shape is nice and fresh
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22:44 sofar also, I purposely chose to allow anyone to open it (digging can be protected, of course, through a protection mod)
22:44 sofar since it's easily jumpable
22:46 paramat makes sense
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23:45 ssieb Does anyone know if flowers are supposed to multiply?  They used to.  You could plant one and over time, others of the same kind would show up in the general vicinity.
23:46 Hijiri I don't know, they do so in 0.4.13 stable at lesat
23:46 Hijiri least
23:47 ssieb hmm, I have biomes and plantlife mods.  I wonder if they interfere with that
23:47 ssieb because it doesn't seem to be working
23:50 paramat they still do, or should do
23:52 LazyJ Flowers grow/spread very slowly, require full(?) light and a lot of space. Plus, players have to be in the same area to keep the area active.
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23:56 LazyJ I've found that flowers are not something you can reliably cultivate in production fields. The best method I've been able to come up with (in survival-mode) is to plant random colors in the area I'm building in and then as soon as a second flower grows, pick it and plant it away from the others.
23:57 Hijiri How do I make mods show up in the server list, do they need to be in the server config?
23:57 Hijiri rather than in the world's mod list
23:57 LazyJ But that only works when I'm working on a big enough project that will take time to complete, allowing time for the flowers to spread while I'm in the area keeping it active.
23:57 Hijiri what I do is plant all my flowers near the spawn area
23:58 Hijiri so other people will keep it active
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23:58 LazyJ Hijiri, the mods shown on the server list might only be the ones in the /minetest/mods directory.
23:58 Hijiri (it still slows down due to flower overcrowding though)
23:58 Hijiri it's in the .minetest/mods directory
23:58 Hijiri and then the world is configured to use them
23:59 Hijiri I don't mean that they were in a world mods directory
23:59 LazyJ Ah. Well, so much for that idea.

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