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IRC log for #minetest, 2016-02-10

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Time Nick Message
00:30 Kray joined #minetest
00:36 rubenwardy_ found some old MT worlds on my file system
00:37 Fixer rubenwardy_, what worlds?
00:37 rubenwardy_ don't know
00:37 Fixer so open it ._.
00:37 rubenwardy_ they're all named like "asasas" and "bestworld12"
00:37 Fixer lol
00:37 Fixer check them ouyt
00:38 Fixer maybe thats red crab 0.3 server world copy
00:39 Fixer that will be all glory
00:40 rubenwardy_ Just found the first prototype for chatplus
00:44 Fixer who on earth uses that? *trollface*
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01:06 rubenwardy_ Fixer, chatplus sucks XD
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01:56 Fritigern Is it possible to protect certain areas without the use of (additional) mods on a vanilla server?
01:58 kaadmy nope
01:58 kaadmy gotta have mods
01:58 kaadmy technically even vanilla's got mods
02:00 Fritigern Well, poopie. I had hoped it were possible because the locked chests get protection out of the box. As for what you said last, it's why I used the word "additional"
02:01 Fritigern Which brings me to the following: How can a server owner remove other people's locked chests that were placed where they should not be?
02:02 kaadmy worldedit? that requires mods tho
02:02 Fritigern I know, is there no other way? Like and admin permissive override?
02:03 kaadmy i think recently mt_game has allowed admins to access locked chests
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02:03 kaadmy not sure tho
02:03 Fritigern It may be planned, but it's not allowed yet. i am using latest dev build. Built fresh today
02:03 kaadmy ah
02:06 rubenwardy_
02:06 rubenwardy_ Just found a prototype of smartfs, called "fsb" - formspec builder
02:07 kaadmy rubenwardy_: what's it do?
02:07 rubenwardy_ It's a more OOP way of marking formspecs
02:07 kaadmy add a simpler interface for formspec building?
02:07 rubenwardy_ eg:  local btn = s:Button(2, 3, "asas")
02:07 kaadmy ah
02:07 rubenwardy_ btn:onClick(function(self) self:setText("this") end)
02:08 Fritigern Which brings me to the following: Vanilla MT desperately needs out-of-the-box anti-griefing measures. I would suggest defaults of lava sources, lava buckets, (river)water buckets and water sources disabled *IF* the mod is running on a standalone server, and creative mode enabled.  AND these nodes/items not explicitly enabled.
02:08 rubenwardy_ the prototype is ten lines, which works differently
02:08 rubenwardy_ I don't agree, Fritigern. Server owners should mod their server to work for them
02:08 rubenwardy_ but it should be easy to do it
02:09 rubenwardy_ ie: mods should integrate well
02:09 Fritigern Server owners should be able to bve server owners without having to figure out how to program in Lua
02:09 rubenwardy_ It's a matter of installing mods to do so
02:10 Fritigern Let's yank out all the mods then, not the dev's responsibility to have mapgens, items or whatever, right?
02:10 rubenwardy_ I think that hosting a plain vanilla server is boring, there are already like 150 servers
02:10 Fritigern Just a matter of installing mods
02:12 rubenwardy_ Basically slippery slope falacy.
02:12 Fritigern You claim that it's not te responsibility of the devs to make sure that their software is secure, don;t you??
02:13 rubenwardy_ Griefing doesn't necessarily make it insecure. That's like players swearing, it doesn't expose passwords but is anti-social. I don't like having gameplay depending on whether it's running on a server or not
02:14 rubenwardy_ I wouldn't be against settings to do all those things
02:14 Fritigern You just said that you were against it, so which is it?
02:14 rubenwardy_ All those things you said have valid normal use
02:15 rubenwardy_ the settings shouldn't be default on servers
02:15 rubenwardy_ a
02:24 sofar Fritigern: there's a PR pending to allow admins to remove owned chests/doors
02:39 rubenwardy Found a copy of 0.4.dev-20120606
02:39 Fritigern sofar: Thank you, I was aware of the PR, but more is needed to discourage griefers and to give admins more ammo to prevent griefing..
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03:14 sofar Fritigern: minetest_game is really a singleplayer focussed type of game, don't expect it to ever support area protection
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03:33 steven2 why, if I have an area set pos1=24,31,276 and pos2=39,8,209 ,do I get pos1=24,8,276 and pos2=39,31,289 when I do /protect?
03:34 steven2 mixed numbers
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03:42 steven2 well, at least at bottom left, I see the zone correctly according to what I placed
04:31 sofar steven2: sorting
04:32 steven2 what do you mean? is that correct then?
04:32 sofar the vertices are getting sorted
04:34 sofar maybe the zone is too large? I didn't see the 276/209/289 discrepancy
04:35 steven2 289* the first pos2
04:36 sofar ah then it's just sorted
04:36 steven2 is it x,y,z?
04:36 sofar if y2 > y1 then pos1.y = y1 and pos2.y = y2, otherwise pos1.y = y2 etc.
04:37 sofar pos1.x <= pos2.x, pos1.y <= pos2.y etc.
04:37 sofar sorted
04:37 sofar if you put 1, 1, 1 for pos1
04:37 sofar and -1, -1, -1 for pos2
04:37 sofar then you get pos1 = -1, -1, -1
04:37 sofar and pos2 = 1, 1, 1
04:38 sofar steven2: get it?
04:38 steven2 ordering in the same plane you mean?
04:39 sofar if that's what you want to call it, yes. In minetest code terms, we call it "vertex sorting"
04:39 steven2 let me see...
04:40 steven2 is it x,y,x right?
04:40 steven2 it is*
04:40 steven2 x,y,z
04:40 sofar no, it's always x, y, z
04:41 sofar what mod are you using?
04:42 kaadmy worldedit or areas?
04:42 steven2 let me check
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04:43 steven2 I have both
04:43 steven2 online server, not mine
04:43 sofar so, let me see if you understand what it does
04:44 sofar please sort these two vertices: (1, 3, 1) and (3, 1, 3)
04:44 steven2 give me some time, please, reading what you wrote :)
04:45 sofar note that vertex sorting doesn't change the shape or size of the selected area
04:45 sofar or even the position
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04:46 steven2 ah, every value of every axis ordered
04:46 sofar so the answer would be? :)
04:46 steven2 it would be= 1,1,1 and 3,3,3
04:47 sofar steven2: congrats, you've learned something important :)
04:47 steven2 hehe
04:47 steven2 what kind of subject is this? :P
04:47 steven2 or topic
04:47 sofar vertex sorting is very important ... it's used everywhere in 3d graphics code
04:48 steven2 first time to me :P
04:48 jordan4ibanez What is freeminer?
04:48 steven2 but I am open minded hehe
04:48 sofar jordan4ibanez: minetest fork?
04:48 jordan4ibanez Oh okay
04:48 sofar steven2: you should see now that the area you protected can be described in several ways
04:49 steven2 a fork of a fork of a fork of a fork... :P
04:49 steven2 but scientifically talking, what would be this subject named?
04:49 steven2 geometry?
04:50 steven2 algebry?
04:50 sofar steven2: 3d graphics principles
04:50 steven2 algebra*
04:50 sofar or matrix manipulations (not sure if that's algebra or not)
04:50 steven2 okay, thanks, still thinking :)
04:51 steven2 what is the objective of ordering vertexes?
04:52 steven2 if easy answer
04:52 sofar it makes several calculations and manipulations easier
04:53 sofar for instance, to calculate the size of the area
04:53 sofar you can subtract pos1 from pos2, then multiply x*y*z
04:54 steven2 ah okay, I see, thanks, very kind
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09:41 JamesTait Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Plimsoll Day! 😃
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12:27 Fixer RealBadAngel, you here?
12:27 RealBadAngel yeah
12:28 Fixer RealBadAngel, http://irc.minetest.ru/minet​est-dev/2016-02-10#i_4530063
12:29 RealBadAngel you know ofc that i havent changed anything related to cracks?
12:31 RealBadAngel but i will check that out
12:33 Fixer RealBadAngel, maybe it is after your shader selection thing commit
12:33 Fixer RealBadAngel, it is very noticable on multiplayer
12:33 Fixer have not seen anything like this
12:35 Fixer RealBadAngel, hold on, i will try 1 day earlier build
12:45 ObsidianZ3R0 Think i found a way to build a web  interface....
12:46 ObsidianZ3R0 the socket solution i was building pissed me off...
12:46 Fixer hmm
12:47 ObsidianZ3R0 there is an embedded application server i found i am playing with... it uses LUA
12:47 ObsidianZ3R0 Fixer it worked fine via telnet... just not http
12:47 ObsidianZ3R0 my socket solution....
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12:53 Fixer RealBadAngel, looks like bug is older then your commits
12:55 * Fixer reads git bisect
12:59 Fixer will bisect that -er
13:17 ObsidianZ3R0 nope, not what i wanted either...
13:17 ObsidianZ3R0 back to sockets...
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13:45 kaeza Greetings
13:46 Obani joined #minetest
13:53 Fixer kaeza,
13:53 kaeza Fixer,
13:58 kaeza "Sucking Alternative of Minecraft"
13:58 kaeza hah
14:02 Fixer kaeza, "Blowing Alternative of Minecraft"
14:03 Fixer kaeza, i'm flying on oldcoders redcrab, doing some slab repairs, and it has so much nice builds, big cities, MC just sucks quietly in a corner
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14:14 Fixer minetest in general has damn gooood servers with very nice builders
14:14 Fixer it is a nice community
14:20 sfan5 !server players:most
14:20 MinetestBot sfan5: just test | 87.110.8.195 | Clients: 21/78, 15/27 | Version: 0.4.12-dev / minetest | Ping: 45ms
14:21 Fixer kilometers sized railways in minetest, can't believe it
14:22 Fixer 7 nodes wide ones
14:22 Fixer this needs at least some slaves near computer 24/7
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14:35 * Fixer slaps everyone with lag-bug
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14:50 proller on my server ~25 km road built, first ~10km  with 3 wide
14:58 kaadmy nice
14:58 kaadmy by hand or worldedit?
14:59 kaadmy !server proller
14:59 MinetestBot kaadmy: No results
14:59 kaadmy :(
14:59 kaadmy !server pixture
14:59 MinetestBot kaadmy: pixture | pixture.quelcom.xyz | Clients: 0/10, 0/2 | Version: 0.4.13-dev / pixture | Ping: 10ms
15:00 proller by hands, also road goes to 11km high
15:02 proller here first ~2km of road http://freeminer.setun.net/map.cir​cles/map-road-2015-02-21-01-51.png
15:03 proller 17mb full map: http://freeminer.setun.net/map.r​oad/map-road-2014-03-31-25k.png
15:04 proller time to make new map!
15:09 Obani proller, what were your goals doing this ?
15:10 Obani Also, nice mapgen, is it a fractal one ?
15:10 proller i'm just make map ;)
15:10 proller no, math
15:10 proller from freeminer
15:10 proller one of infinity variants
15:10 Obani I should try seriously Freeminer one day
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15:15 proller my best map http://freeminer.setun.net/map.ci​rcles/map-x3-2015-04-13-15-02.png
15:15 proller part of
15:17 proller this map http://freeminer.setun.net/map​.circles/map-circles-last.png  now on "four circles" server available for minetest clients
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15:36 Fixer RealBadAngel, looks like your commit has a regression, need 1 more test to confirm
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15:52 Open_Future Hi All, what is best protection mod for a newbie user to install on a server I use with my students?
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15:57 H-H-H what kind of protection?
15:57 Krock there are such with protection around a block, others have complete areas
15:58 Krock either fixed to a grid or open
15:58 H-H-H turn pvp of to protect the players from killing each other
15:59 Krock turn fire off to protect the players from killing each other
15:59 H-H-H yeah that 2 lol
16:00 Open_Future students have made homes and want to protect the home and a small area around it
16:01 Open_Future so rogue players cant move or take stuff
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16:08 RealBadAngel Fixer, and?
16:11 Fixer RealBadAngel, it is your commit yes
16:11 Fixer RealBadAngel, Use tangent space meshes only when shaders are enabled
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16:19 Open_Future Hi all, is there a way to have more than one "home" maybe a second location called 'shop' so that you can quickly move to one or the other?
16:20 Open_Future I read about this in forums but link to mod is dead.  Has this been incorporated to main game?
16:24 H-H-H you could use the mod compassgps or travelnet
16:26 H-H-H in your situation i would recomend compassgps as it allows bookmarks that can be teleportded to and from but allows the user to select if the bookmarks are private or public but it also allows and admin ie you to set bookmarks for cool places or whatever and everyone gets them
16:27 kaeza you may also find travelnet mod interesting
16:27 H-H-H ^^^ mentioned to
16:28 Obani Open_Future, the dirty way : just copy the home code by replacing "home" with "shop" :p
16:33 RealBadAngel Open_Future, or fancy and cool way for travelling: https://github.com/minetest-mods/stargate
16:33 H-H-H does that still work ?
16:34 H-H-H ahh cool it wasnt the one i was thinking of ty RealBadAngel
16:40 H-H-H hey RealBadAngel do you have a write up anywhere detailing adding technic support to a machine made in a different mod?
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16:40 RealBadAngel no, you have to read code from technic
16:41 RealBadAngel get music player, its the most simple powered machine
16:41 H-H-H ok thanks
16:42 H-H-H then i need to figure out pipes to and digilines but one thing at a time :)
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16:48 Open_Future Obani, you mean copy code that allows ability to make home, rename it shop and then players can have a home and shop location to teleport to?
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16:48 Open_Future Which file do I edit to do this?
16:51 Sokomine i just read that the raspberry pi now seems to support opengl experimentally to a degree. wonder if that'll help with mt performance on it? phones and tablets do very fine already
16:51 Krock if we had batter hardware support, yeah.
16:51 sfan5 if you want to run minetest on an rpi just use ogles
16:51 sfan5 don't bother with opengl
16:52 sofar it's an underpowered machine. it'll be underwhelming at best.
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16:52 sofar DISCLAIMER: I work for intel.
16:52 sfan5 it's not the cpu power that matters
16:52 kaeza burn the witch
16:52 sfan5 also the second rpi is not so bad
16:52 Sokomine :-)
16:52 sofar OpenGL ES support in minetest would be interesting, for sure
16:53 Sokomine phones do handle the game quite well. guess they come with better graphics hardware
16:53 Krock stone him
16:53 sfan5 sofar: no
16:53 sfan5 it would not be "interesting"
16:53 sfan5 it's already done
16:53 sfan5 also the support needs to come from irrlicht not minetest
16:53 sofar oh, didn't know
16:53 sfan5 what do you think that android uses for rendering?
16:53 sfan5 surely not the normal opengl
16:53 sofar right, hadn't given that any thought
16:54 ShadowNinja The RPF recently announced an OpenGL driver in Raspbian, and the RPi2 is decently powerfull, so you should be able to play it, although it will likely look just about as good as the Android version does (tiny view range).
16:55 ShadowNinja The GPU shouldn't be the limiting factor here though.
16:55 Sokomine hm. is the raspberry really that poor regarding graphics hardware compared to i.e. a 40 euro tablet? the later one can handle mt (it just suffers from not-enough-ram)
16:55 ShadowNinja Sokomine: It can decode h.264 in 1080p live.
16:56 Sokomine ShadowNinja: ah, thanks. that's what i was trying to talk about
16:56 ShadowNinja The graphics chip is pretty good if you've got the driver to use it.
16:56 sfan5 ShadowNinja: that doesn't say anything about the graphics performance
16:56 Sokomine the opengl issue. not sure about h.264. guess that's done in hardware
16:56 sfan5 hwdec isn't impressive
16:57 sofar hw decode pipes are one trick ponies
16:57 ShadowNinja I could actually test this right now -- I've got a RPi2 right next to me.
16:57 sofar Alton Brown would frown at unitaskers ;)
16:57 Sokomine well, the raspberry manages to run that other blocky game. while that other blocky game does not really run on the gpu of a celeron g1610
16:57 ShadowNinja The compilation is going to probably take hours though.
16:57 ShadowNinja Unless I just grab it from the repos.
16:58 sfan5 the repos most likely have the version with opengl
16:58 sfan5 Sokomine: the rpi runs a specially optimized minecraft pi, not the usual version
16:58 ShadowNinja I'm running Arch on it -- so if the driver isn't included with the standard set I won't get acceleration.
16:59 sfan5 i'm pretty sure arch has the driver too
16:59 Open_Future kaeza, burn the witch!  ;-)
16:59 Sokomine the article in the news was about it beeing added experimentally to raspian
17:06 ShadowNinja Looks like the Arch ARM project hasn't compiled it, I'll have to do it myself.
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17:12 melzua I just test the RPI2 with OpenGL and played for a 'decent' 7 fps in pixture server, 1920x1080 and limiting range min/max view at 32 (no shaders, opaque trees, no mimap, etc...).
17:13 melzua compiling minetest takes 'only' about 25 minutes
17:13 sfan5 i'd suggest trying with opengl es for better fps
17:14 sofar yeah that's playable
17:14 * sofar hears some more "burn the witch"
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17:23 proller g s
17:24 Fixer 40 euro tablet? is this even possible?
17:24 sofar yes
17:25 sofar I think there's even a kindle tablet out for that much on sale this week
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17:51 kaadmy on the pixture server, i get about 20 fps at 1440x900, no shaders, simple leaves(not opaque, not fancy)
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18:09 Calinou <sofar> hw decode pipes are one trick ponies
18:09 Calinou it must be Rainbow Dash
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18:23 afflatus Is there a known limit to the area you can edit in worldedit?
18:23 afflatus What does it depend on?
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18:25 afflatus //deleteblocks for instance seems to be able to handle quite large areas - several million nodes - it just takes rather a long time.
18:27 afflatus And I would just love to be able to convert area selections to worldedit selections and vv
18:27 afflatus That must be scriptable ...
18:44 kaadmy did something change with model animations recently?
18:44 Fixer kaadmy, block placing/dig?
18:44 kaadmy pixture now spams the "Could not find character.png" warnings and the stand animation only plays one frame then resets
18:44 kaadmy nope, standing
18:44 kaadmy it worked last i checked
18:45 kaadmy let me check something
18:46 Calinou kaadmy, look at the screenshots: http://community.ioquake.org/t/​higher-resolution-lightmaps/480
18:46 Calinou I wanted to use ioquake3 for my FPS, but taking out the Q3 assets is a pain, and the OpenArena assets are not really compatible with the latest engine
18:46 Calinou need to write my own .shader files, etc
18:48 kaadmy wow, didn't know ioquake3's gotten that far
18:48 Calinou it even has stuff like PBR
18:48 kaadmy wow
18:48 Calinou the new renderer has some caveats, like, its SSAO is crap
18:48 Calinou but other things work fine
18:48 kaadmy haven't been following ioq3's progress
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18:51 Open_Future2 Hi All, is there a way as admin to see what players have in a locked chest?
18:52 sfan5 you can patch minetest_game to allow that
18:52 sfan5 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/602
18:53 ShadowNinja kaadmy: Is that OpenGL over LLVMpipe?
18:53 ShadowNinja I'm only getting 2 FPS.
18:54 kaadmy i'll try updating to latest git MT
18:54 Out`Of`Control sfan5:  why its not in main repo?
18:55 sfan5 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
18:55 sfan5 no idea
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18:56 kaadmy hmm, an older version of MT(on a different machine tho) works fine
18:57 kaadmy someone else has also been having my problems
18:57 kaadmy DS-minetest
18:57 kaadmy with images not showing up on formspecs, like in the nav:map
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19:01 ShadowNinja kaadmy: Oh, wait, NVM, I see you're talking about something else.
19:02 ShadowNinja melzua: Are you using OpenGL over LLVMpipe?  (Irrlicht should say if you use minetest --info)
19:05 kaadmy nope, still having animation problems with latest git minetest
19:06 kaadmy is anybody else having problems (latest git pixture and minetest) with the console being filled with the "Could not character.png" warnings?
19:07 ShadowNinja kaadmy: That's been an issue for a long time.  I think .x embeds the texture name and Irrlicht tries to load it directly instead of waiting for MT to load it from the texture= def.
19:08 ShadowNinja b3d seems to embed it too.
19:09 ShadowNinja You can try converting it to .obj and see if it goes away.
19:09 kaadmy no, i'm using .b3d
19:09 kaadmy ah nvm just re-read what u said
19:10 kaadmy and this problem is recent, happend in the last couple weeks
19:10 kaadmy haven't changed anything related to to models in pixture for months now
19:10 sofar I had a PR open to move character.png, but that's something not even merged yet
19:10 kaadmy and android versions of mt have no problem, older versions of mt also work correctly
19:11 sofar it seems something broke the model in core, perhaps?
19:11 kaadmy yes
19:11 kaadmy and some images aren't working in formspecs
19:11 kaadmy did something change with texture loading recently?
19:11 kaadmy both problems i'm having could be related
19:11 sofar did you pull latest git for core?
19:12 kaadmy sofar: latest git minetest, latest git pixture
19:12 kaadmy not minetest_game
19:12 sofar it now uses meshes to display the inventory
19:12 kaadmy could someone else try using latest git pixture and minetest
19:12 kaadmy go to third person and walk around
19:13 kaadmy and "acquire" a nav:map (/giveme nav:map) and see if there's a blue bullseye thing in the map's center
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19:40 ShadowNinja Just checked the code.  Irrlicht's b3d loader always loads textures automatically and there's apparently no way to disable it.  You'll just have to remove the TEXS section from the b3d file.
19:55 kaadmy has that been added recently?
19:57 sofar Date:   Mon Jan 26 10:23:25 2015 +0100
19:57 sofar no
19:58 kaadmy because the problem's fairly recent, and someone else has been having the same problem
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20:01 ShadowNinja Turns out removing the b3d texture section just pegs the CPU.
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20:03 kaadmy heh
20:03 sofar yikes
20:04 kaadmy ShadowNinja: https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=206966#p206966
20:04 kaadmy samd problem with someone else
20:04 kaadmy same*
20:07 melzua ShadowNinja: I'll try later, kodi doesn't like the rpi's opengl driver and now it's on the nonopengl one.
20:08 melzua non opengl*
20:09 melzua RPi2 must be rebooted to select the opengl driver again and I can't do it now.
20:09 melzua or my kids will kill me :-P
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20:22 Hijiri fall damage doesn't do damage of any specific damage type, right?
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20:25 DatJohnDoe Hey, do you guys know any good building servers?
20:25 melzua kaadmy: about the problem with the animation, don't happens to me now. But I saw it sometimes before in local tests.
20:26 melzua kaadmy: and I can confirm the problem with the map. Latest git MT has the problem but an older one no.
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20:44 kaadmy melzua: same here
20:44 kaadmy animations work on your pixture server, but break in singleplayer
20:45 melzua kaadmy: breaks using latest mt server?
20:45 kaadmy works fine with your pixture server
20:46 kaadmy animations work in multiplayer, but the map still has invisible images
20:46 melzua the minetestserver binary that is on the server is not the latest git one
20:46 kaadmy ah
20:47 melzua but it's pretty stable :)
20:58 DatJohnDoe Does anyone know of any servers?
20:58 kaadmy DatJohnDoe: any requirements?
20:59 DatJohnDoe Building or just for fun
20:59 kaadmy try
20:59 kaadmy !server pixture
20:59 MinetestBot kaadmy: pixture | pixture.quelcom.xyz | Clients: 0/10, 0/2 | Version: 0.4.13-dev / pixture | Ping: 32ms
20:59 DatJohnDoe like rubenwardys ctf
20:59 DatJohnDoe Ok
20:59 kaadmy ^ more of a survival server tho
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21:32 sfan5 !server players:most
21:32 MinetestBot ValueError: Expecting ',' delimiter: line 1 column 73799 (char 73798) (file "/usr/lib/python3.4/json/decoder.py", line 359, in raw_decode)
21:33 kaadmy heh
21:35 sfan5 !server players:most
21:35 MinetestBot sfan5: skyblock server | shivajiva101.servegame.com:30001 | Clients: 17/40, 16/22 | Version: 0.4.13-dev / minetest | Ping: 45ms
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23:14 jordan4ibanez_ Is there a way to make a 3d marker in the world that's visible from everywhere like a player name
23:19 sofar Closest you can get is a particle, but that's not permanent
23:20 sofar plus it's not the same size from every distance
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23:26 kaadmy jordan4ibanez_: you can have waypoints
23:27 jordan4ibanez_ kaadmy, any mods that use waypoints?
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