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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-12-13

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:35 Fixer moving in chests SUCK
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02:31 blert2112_ Why, when I modify an item's inventory tooltip (L2248 guiFormSpecMenu.cpp), does the item turn into an "unknown"?
02:48 blert2112_ nevermind, it is magically working now, weird
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07:04 LinuxGuy2020 Hello I was wondering if there is some common way to get minetest to work with my NAS. I just built a mini itx server with NAS4Free operating system and it has the common network shares, ftp, nfs, etc built in. I'm not sure if there is a way to get the world to be saved on the server or not. I have the option to create a virtualbox machine within NAS4Free but it would be slow on the Atom CPU. Any ideas?
07:05 sofar you can store the world folder on any location
07:06 LinuxGuy2020 sofar: Ok so I need more specifics on setup if possible.
07:06 LinuxGuy2020 hehe
07:06 sofar http://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server
07:06 sofar also, minetestserver --help is useful
07:06 sofar You are a 20/20 linux guy... you know how to read manuals
07:07 sofar ;^)
07:07 LinuxGuy2020 sofar: One problem though NAS4Free is BSD based. Not Linux.
07:08 sofar well I was assuming you wanted to run the server on a linux machine with the world stored on the NAS
07:08 LinuxGuy2020 sofar: Yeah....ok.....maybe I needed to read a bit more detail.
07:08 sofar but I believe the server can be run on BSD too
07:09 sofar FreeBSD official packages have their own pre-built packages: pkg install minetest minetest_game
07:09 sofar http://www.minetest.net/downloads/
07:14 LinuxGuy2020 Hmmm maybe Ill just install a Linux virtual machine and try it. Ill try Linux Mint mate edition. That dont work Ill mayeb think about doing  that native install.
07:14 LinuxGuy2020 Thanks
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07:17 Hirato use KDE <3
07:17 sofar you should care less if he tried hello kitty linux
07:18 sofar LinuxGuy2020: the atom server should be able to run a minetestserver... try downloading the bsd version and give it a go?
07:18 Hirato http://hannahmontana.sourc​eforge.net/Site/About.html this is obviously the best one
07:19 LinuxGuy2020 sofar: Yeah but I have no clue how easy/hard it would be to setup with the web GUI. Ive not messed with BSD much at all.
07:20 sofar LinuxGuy2020: probably not possible, or not worth your time if you're not familiar with the BSD console
07:20 sofar I certainly think that trying in a VM with linux would be a good first step for you to understand
07:20 LinuxGuy2020 right thats why I might try the linux virtual machine since Vbox is built in.
07:21 LinuxGuy2020 Maybe Ill try linux mint mate. Same version I run on my desktop and laptop. Has the server in the repos.
07:22 sofar why not try it on your laptop first?
07:22 sofar ... if you already have a linux box... why setup a vm for a test?
07:24 LinuxGuy2020 sofar: I already know hwo to setup the server on linux thats easy as pie.
07:25 LinuxGuy2020 My NAS box is on all the time so the virtual machine with minetest server will also be on all the time.
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10:29 Blekpug How much cheating do you think it is to use /home ?
10:30 Obani Blekpug, you can add a timer to /home
10:30 Obani To forbid using it everytime
10:30 Blekpug Good to know.
10:31 SaKeL why is using /home a cheating ?
10:32 Obani SaKeL, in PvP, it is
10:33 SaKeL because they player can run to save house ?
10:33 SaKeL because the player can run to save house ?
10:34 Obani Yes
10:34 Obani Or for example, someoe attacking their house
10:34 Obani THey can come back as they want to kill them
10:34 SaKeL ah ok... thanks for the explanation ;)
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10:46 Krock Respawning after being killed is cheating too!!
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10:46 Obani Krock, yes !
10:46 Obani IN real life you don't respawn !
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10:47 Krock Obani, the hindus do.
10:47 Obani Well I don't know if they have conscience of that
10:47 Krock Don't know either
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11:26 Obani Guys, I thought you would like to know about this https://play.google.com/store/apps/de​tails?id=com.pipsqueake.squeakecraft
11:27 Obani Also, there is a version you can buy https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta​ils?id=com.pipsqueake.squeakecraftplus
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11:42 Blekpug Does only tall grass yield seed?
11:43 Blekpug or also short?
11:43 Obani Every grasses I think
11:44 Obani RealBadAngel, sfan5, ShadowNinja, did you know about squeake craft ?
11:45 SaKeL http://wiki.minetest.net/Grass ;)
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12:15 SaKeL hi guys, someone know what kind of license have these skins ? http://minecraft.novaskin.me/gallery
12:16 SaKeL like if it's open source or not.. i have no idea how the licensing works :/
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12:22 Calinou SaKeL, if there's no license, it's proprietary
12:22 Calinou note that any skin based on the reference Minecraft "Steve" is de facto proprietary
12:23 SaKeL ok... :/ so i can't use any of those skins.. ?
12:24 SaKeL (legally)
12:25 Calinou SaKeL, probably not
12:26 SaKeL ok thanks
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12:49 SaKeL Calinou i think i use them anyway :D
12:49 SaKeL http://www.planetminecraft.com/blog​/skin-stealing-whats-wrong-with-it/
12:56 Calinou it's not stealing, and there's nothing wrong with it
12:56 Calinou what's wrong is people not putting any license on their skins
12:57 Calinou I believe everything should have a license
13:00 SaKeL yes i agree... spending a life time now googeling if i can use them legally
13:00 Calinou just make your own
13:00 Calinou or take them from the Minetest skin db
13:00 Calinou http://minetest.fensta.bplaced.net/
13:01 SaKeL yeah i miss some from fensta
13:01 SaKeL thats why i was looking somewhere else
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13:02 SaKeL find out licence for the wallpapers section on their websit
13:02 SaKeL http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/
13:02 SaKeL should be fine
13:03 yunfan Calinou: do you know why the chest response so slow even i am playing on local server
13:03 Calinou yunfan, use latest Minetest Git
13:03 Calinou it seems to have prediction now, you can also shift-click
13:03 Calinou SaKeL, CC BY-NC-SA is not fine :(
13:03 Calinou http://freedomdefined.org/Licenses/NC
13:03 yunfan Calinou: so not the udp or syncing to filesystem problem?
13:04 Calinou it has nothing to do with UDP or file system syncing
13:04 FreeFull Calinou: What about CC0?
13:04 Calinou that one is fine
13:05 Calinou I encourage everyone to use CC0 for simple stuff like skins and configuration files :P
13:06 gravgun CC0 for very little and random things, MIT for general purpose reusable code, LGPL for specific-purpose libraries, GPL for whole projects
13:06 yunfan Calinou: then why it laaags , i am very curious
13:07 Calinou yunfan, which Minetest version are you using?
13:07 yunfan Calinou: hold on
13:07 FreeFull I tend to license my code under MIT
13:07 yunfan Build info: VER=0.4.13-dev BUILD_TYPE=None RUN_IN_PLACE=0 USE_GETTEXT=1 USE_SOUND=1 USE_CURL=1 USE_FREETYPE=1 USE_LUAJIT=1 STATIC_SHAREDIR="/usr/share/minetest"   cc Calinou
13:08 yunfan i was playing stampy_game, which is the most likely minecraft clone i have played
13:08 Calinou FreeFull, that's fine too
13:09 Calinou CC0 is not OSI-approved :(
13:09 Calinou it explicitly denies patent rights
13:09 gravgun dafuq?
13:10 Calinou did you hear, gravgun? France wants to ban libre accounting/POS software
13:10 Calinou because it's modifiable
13:10 Calinou to "prevent VAT fraud"
13:10 gravgun Yea I saw that
13:10 SylvieLorxu AGPL for everything :D
13:10 gravgun I read multiple articles about it
13:10 gravgun Fucking capitalists
13:11 SylvieLorxu It's a good thing proprietary software can't cause fraud
13:11 SylvieLorxu *cough* Volkswagen *cough*
13:11 gravgun Of *cough* course
13:12 yunfan Calinou: what do you think cause the lag?
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13:13 gravgun SylvieLorxu, b-but it's *cough* certified software *cough*
13:15 gravgun Calinou: now what would prevent me from creating my own accounting software if I need one?
13:15 gravgun It's the same as paper and pencil
13:15 gravgun but on a computer
13:15 gravgun computer you told how to compute things for you
13:16 gravgun This shit law is fundamentally broken
13:16 gravgun much like all its sibling law projects
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13:17 gravgun It's clearly the result of POS software lobbying, targeting free software because it "potentially takes shares away from them" using the unsolvable VAT fraud issue
13:18 gravgun Thing is, when a mathematically unsolvable issue arise
13:18 gravgun a rational person would try to change what causes this issue, that is, ascending things in the effect/causation tree it draws
13:18 gravgun idiots would fuitlessly try to fix it from below
13:19 gravgun I'll let you all picture what politicians are then.
13:27 yunfan Calinou: i just downloaded the sourcecode from github and build a client, and still the chest responsed laaaaag
13:29 Calinou I have no issues on rubenwardy's CTF server, strange
13:31 yunfan then it might be my own server's problem?
13:31 Calinou it's probably due to client not predicting chest stuff
13:36 yunfan but even that, how can it take seconds to wait the local server's response?
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13:46 Wayward_One Sounds like https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2145
13:48 yunfan but when interact with other nodes, it didnt responsed lag, for eg, pick up drop items
13:49 Wayward_One Hmm
13:53 yunfan https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2544  looks like this has the some problem
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14:19 jomat Uh, the force field destroys liquid source blocks :-(
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14:41 yunfan also i havent saw shift-click works
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15:03 Fixer it works in 0.4.13 with chests and other
15:04 yunfan but i am playing 0.4.13
15:04 yunfan and i use shift-click, it dont have any effect
15:06 Fixer open chest -> shift click on an item in chest -> ??? -> profit!
15:07 yunfan nope , i mean crafting
15:08 yunfan ok, shift-click works
15:08 yunfan but it doesnt work when crafting
15:08 est31 shift click has to be enabled by the mod
15:08 est31 crafting mod and chest mod
15:08 est31 but crafting output doesnt work with shift click
15:09 est31 thats not implemented (yet)
15:09 yunfan est31: also the delay problem still exists after you merge the code, and i have check that the code has been merged
15:09 est31 ?
15:09 est31 code? which code?
15:10 yunfan est31: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2544  this issue's
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15:17 nolsen How fast of an upload speed is best for minetest?
15:17 nolsen minetest server*
15:21 nolsen Will 4Mbps do?
15:21 est31 yeah
15:22 nolsen For 10 people?
15:22 nolsen or more?
15:22 est31 I think so yes
15:22 yunfan can people configure using TCP ?
15:22 est31 no
15:23 yunfan the chest lag issue bored me
15:26 Krock nolsen, hosted mine with almost 1 MBit/s
15:27 Krock playable with less than 10 players
15:30 Calinou TCP is not made for real-time games, period
15:30 Calinou there are subgames that can't afford occasional lag of several seconds
15:39 est31 we use udp and still get that lag lol
15:39 est31 but at least its our fault not TCP's
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15:42 yunfan i knew tcp is not for real time games, but if i just play in single player
15:44 yunfan that #2544 issue still occur at my local server :[
15:51 yunfan i am interesting if you could use zeromq as the connection provider
16:00 est31 in single player tcp is as good as udp
16:03 yunfan so the problem is there're too many events generated by those customer mods?
16:03 yunfan but i even got lag in minigame
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16:34 Count_Pooterman Anyone know if VanessaE plantlife mod pack is obsolete with latest minetest? basically with new features I find standard plant life inadequate for starting out to make beds, etc. Looking for mod to tweak that
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16:49 Fixer working with chests and doors suck so much -_-
16:49 Fixer on laggy servers
16:49 Fixer opening doors for N seconds is trivial, NN sec is not uncommon
16:52 Calinou this is why we need client-side Lua :P
16:52 Calinou it would be great if it happened in 2016
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16:55 J_ hello
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16:57 Fixer Calinou, in 2061
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16:57 J_ wat'
16:58 est31 ahh no
16:58 est31 I hoped we'd make it until 2051
16:59 J_ brb
16:59 J_ i have a god-tier username
16:59 Calinou nolsen, a Minetest client requires 0.1 MB/s of upload with default server step
16:59 Calinou so you can host more like ~30 clients on your connection
17:00 J_ cul
17:00 est31 I'd guess some of the bandwidth scales quadratically
17:00 est31 every client's position is sent to every other client
17:02 J_ how to rename
17:02 Fixer Calinou, 100 kbyte/sec for 1 client? jeez. what are you sending? porn?
17:02 Fixer why so much?
17:03 * Fixer >_> PR 3199
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17:03 nolsen ...
17:03 Calinou Fixer, bits, not bytes
17:03 nolsen That would take a very long time, Fixer.
17:03 Calinou nolsen, also I advise increasing server step rate
17:03 Calinou dedicated_server_step = 0.05
17:03 Calinou it may reduce perceived lag, and will make movement of other clients appear to be smoother
17:03 Calinou (also mobs)
17:04 Calinou but it'll cost more CPU on your server, and will increase bandwidth requirements
17:04 Calinou https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=10&amp;t=1825
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18:46 Neomex i want to do minecraft-like game but dont want to do it from scratch
18:46 Neomex is minetest a good choice?
18:46 VanessaE it is, to some degree
18:46 Neomex im not too happy about c++ though
18:47 VanessaE modding is done with Lua
18:47 VanessaE you'd only have to touch the C++ if the engine can't do something that you need done
18:48 Neomex what is the minetest licence?
18:48 VanessaE LGPL
18:48 VanessaE most of the game assets are CC-by-SA
18:50 TheMiner help please: in Linux Mint in ver .13 whi dont my offline worlds show in selection box to load worlds?
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18:55 TheMiner <TheMiner> help please: in Linux Mint in ver .13 whi dont my offline worlds show in selection box to load worlds?   <<<<<
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20:50 Pierre_ gid
20:50 Pierre_ my full name doesn't show up
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22:05 * Fixer reads CS 4 all
22:06 * Fixer will be ready to improve minetest in this century
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22:06 * Fixer .oO(or not)
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