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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-12-10

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00:42 rubenwardy New blog post! A system to calculate the workload for employees based on their assignment to tasks and appointments. http://rubenwardy.com/blog/2015/12/10/etms/
00:57 Glorfindel rubenwardy: no, where?
00:57 rubenwardy I think I meant I don't know, heh
00:59 Glorfindel oh lol
01:05 rubenwardy oh
01:05 rubenwardy You meant the second thing I said
01:06 rubenwardy the origin of "core dumped"
01:06 rubenwardy it comes from magnetic cores in the olden days, purported ly
01:06 rubenwardy core as in magnetic core
01:06 rubenwardy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic-core_memory
01:06 rubenwardy Glorfindel,
01:06 rubenwardy ^
01:08 Glorfindel ah, cool
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02:51 sofar why do people insist on making mods gplv3, if they're clearly building on top of minetest_game and don't add any new concepts?
02:51 sofar I guess I'll reimplement it from scratch and release as lgpl2.1..... sigh
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08:27 dadix hello
08:27 dadix I can't go with a mapgen6 with snowbiome and flat, nocaves
08:28 dadix I did the setings in config file
08:28 dadix like this:
08:28 dadix mg_name = v6
08:28 dadix mgv6_spflags = flat,jungles,biomeblend,mudf​low,snowbiomes,trees,nocaves
08:30 dadix what is wrong?
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10:03 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Thursday, and happy Nobel Prize Day! 😃
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12:28 Fixer ._.
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15:02 Fixer sfan5, do you have windows binaries with new RBA shaders?
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16:26 Calinou https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sxSkiC8EEY
16:26 Calinou wow
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16:44 sfan5 Fixer: no
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17:24 Krock hi
17:25 Ingar Plop
17:25 Krock Plop?
17:26 Ingar Plop!
17:27 MinetestBot [git] RealBadAngel -> minetest/minetest: Speed up and make more accurate relief mapping a64d78a http://git.io/v0vNQ (2015-12-10T18:24:11+01:00)
17:28 Krock Plop. Plop! Prop? Plop? Plop.
17:29 LazyJ RealBadAngel, I (and others) have noticed that nodes that use the colorize feature in their code appear blackened when normalmaps are used. Is this fixable?
17:31 LazyJ And thanks for the tip about AwesomeBump. That does do a much better job than GIMP.
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17:46 LazyJ Any ideas what increasing the dedicated_server_step would have? How much is too much?
17:48 Calinou LazyJ, the more you increase it, the less smooth player movement will appear.
17:49 Calinou 0.1 is a decent value, but use 0.05 if you can…
17:49 Krock It means there will be less packets flying to to the clients
17:49 Calinou (my hunger games server uses 0.05)
17:49 Calinou many servers can handle that value fine
17:50 LazyJ Hmm... Does the 3rd person view give a reasonable depiction of the more smooth/less smooth effects of the dss?
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17:59 Obani rubenwardy, we can also continue the conversation here :p
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18:07 Calinou LazyJ, no, it does not since the third person view's position and animations are entirely client-side
18:07 Calinou use another client to see how smooth movement is
18:07 Calinou also movement would look smoother if yaw changes were interpolated… it's 2015 and they still aren't :(
18:09 LazyJ Given how rigid the avatars are at present, they aren't capable of much motion to be fluid about. Will do some tinkering to try to strike a balance. Thanks ;)
18:14 Calinou the ideal would be 0.025
18:14 Calinou (40 FPS)
18:14 Calinou but it's probably too taxing on many servers and networks
18:14 Krock 0.02 (50 FPS)
18:14 Calinou (40 FPS networking is what many modern games use)
18:14 Ingar 4D interpolation is hard
18:14 Calinou Krock, 50/60 is definitely too much… for instance, a Warsow server with that framerate (on server) will drop packets like crazy
18:14 Calinou default is 20, I bumped it to 40 on my Warsow server :p
18:15 Krock Ingar, no, it's just eating damn much CPU when you want to interpolarize it correctly
18:15 Krock Calinou, yeah.. Always depends on the amount of the data which is sent every step
18:15 Ingar the biggest problem imho is, you're not interpolating
18:15 est31 wtf
18:15 Ingar you';re extrapolating
18:15 Ingar because the next frame is still on the server
18:15 est31 why not linear interpolation
18:15 est31 done
18:15 Calinou Ingar, we need to interpolate position and yaw, that's all
18:15 Ingar est31: fail
18:16 Calinou our interpolation is not entirely linear btw
18:16 Calinou (which is probably a bad thing, it tends to create stuttering)
18:16 est31 Ingar, why fail
18:16 est31 also, why interpolation at all
18:16 Ingar wehave fun doing standard interpolation on rotations
18:16 est31 it introduces lag
18:16 Ingar *standard linear
18:16 Ingar interpolation does not cause lag, by definition
18:17 est31 Ingar, you need to know the next value in advance in order to interpolate.
18:17 est31 so you have to wait until the server sends you the next yaw value
18:17 Ingar est31: as I said earlier
18:17 RealBadAngel LazyJ, if one of my PRs will get merge you will be able to define the normal map to use
18:17 est31 so by definition, interpolation can only be done offline
18:17 Ingar est31: in your case, the lag is casued by having to wait an extra frame, not by the interpolation itself
18:17 Calinou only hardcore QuakeWorld players complain about interpolation :P
18:18 Ingar est31: yes, that is true
18:18 RealBadAngel so it wont collide with texture compositions (read damn shitload of files)
18:18 Calinou but yeah, interpolation strength should be a minetest.conf setting
18:18 Ingar that;s why trem caleld it  "client prediction" :p
18:18 Ingar called
18:18 est31 Ingar, yes of course, but the interpolation requires it, so adding interpolation introduces lag one way or another
18:18 LazyJ Ok. Thanks, RealBadAngel ;)
18:18 Calinou Ingar, we interpolate only yaw since only yaw is displayed on players
18:18 Calinou no need for pitch
18:19 Ingar Calinou: then you might be able to get away with it and extrapolate
18:19 Ingar even higher -order based on past frames
18:20 Ingar n-polys are fast to interpolate
18:20 LazyJ I know there is an Issue posted by... HybridDog? about the blackening of normalmaps but I think he closed it for some reason. Would posting an Issue, myself, with a screenshot make a difference?
18:20 Ingar can't remember the name of that algorithm
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18:22 est31 there are tons of algorithms to do interpolations
18:22 Ingar you want one where you just can add a node each frame
18:22 est31 the smart ones however require that you need to set the base points irregularly
18:22 est31 regular points are bad
18:22 Ingar and keep the exponents of the interpolation polynome
18:23 Ingar est31: it has been over 15 years since I actually had to study that stuff :p
18:24 Ingar it's a bit rusty
18:24 est31 I'm doing it right now
18:24 est31 could do better though
18:25 Ingar I just had to connect to a french-speaking server (for work)
18:25 Ingar need some recovery now
18:27 sofar mais oui
18:28 LazyJ If the num_emerge_threads only deal with mapgen, why does the thread, according to htop, spike to 43% of CPU when I run through an area that has been developed and frequented by players (spawntown) for over two years?
18:28 sofar Ingar: vlaams? :^)
18:28 est31 LazyJ, I think the emerge threads also do the decompression
18:28 est31 but idk, perhaps they spend time with bureocracy
18:29 est31 you know filling some internal lists and having O(n^3) complexity or such
18:29 Ingar sofar: vollenbak
18:33 LazyJ est31, decompression of what? I thought sqlite wasn't compressed?
18:33 est31 LazyJ, it is compressed
18:33 est31 it would be totally horrible if map weren't
18:34 est31 compression could do better though
18:34 est31 16 as block size isn't really efficient
18:34 est31 but shrug, it is better than nothing
18:35 Ingar put home on NFS. load large minecraft map with lots of mods. get coffee.
18:35 LazyJ Ok, thanks. ;)
18:36 nrzkt LazyJ, i tester uncompressed mapblocks in DB
18:36 nrzkt it's 100 to 400x larger
18:36 nrzkt and the database transfer cost more than comprssing the data
18:37 LazyJ nrzkt, thanks. I've been trying out various settings over the past few weeks. One of my greatest frustrations is not understanding what affect the settings may or may not have and having no way to measure what, if anything, that they are doing.
18:38 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Fix some setting documentation 8e3602f http://git.io/v0fEc (2015-12-10T19:08:03+01:00)
18:38 sofar Ingar: sorry, hollander here, no clue what "vollenbak" is
18:40 Ingar sofar: my apologies ;) it's from "volle bak", loosly translated "plankgas" in all methaphorical senses of the word
18:40 Ingar "vollenbak gaan"
18:40 Ingar dutch, it's such a wonderful language
18:40 sofar ah, that I get ;)
18:42 Ingar I should make youtube videos on flemish for beginners
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19:07 luizrpgluiz hi :)
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19:11 Krock Time for an image! http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2​011/11/reasons-to-use-a-semicolon-graph.png
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19:41 Calinou I will soon reach 3,000 posts
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20:53 * Obani gives Calinou a cookie
20:57 Calinou I captured two flags in two rounds in CTF. AMA!
20:58 est31 with tunnels?
21:00 Obani ctf is easy :)
21:04 est31 most of the players are noobs
21:05 dadix hello ,I can't connect to the server with client
21:06 Obani yes, has on every popular server
21:06 dadix the error : Connection time out
21:06 Calinou dadix, which server?
21:06 dadix my server
21:07 dadix and I can.t see it in the public server list
21:07 Obani dadix, is the port opened ?
21:07 dadix yes
21:08 Obani Is the master server registration on ?
21:08 dadix I don't know
21:08 Obani Well so it might be a no
21:08 dadix where is that option?
21:09 Obani https://github.com/minetest/minetest/b​lob/master/minetest.conf.example#L714
21:09 Obani minetest.conf
21:09 dadix serverlist_url = servers.minetest.net  ?
21:09 dadix this one?
21:09 Obani yes
21:09 Obani server_announce = true
21:10 dadix I have that last one
21:10 Obani server_name = Dadix's server
21:11 Obani Try to take a deeper look inside this file, it could show you what you can do with minetest.conf (client/side and server/side)
21:12 dadix I put the server name now
21:12 dadix let;s see
21:12 dadix no, not working
21:12 dadix the same error
21:13 Obani What error ?
21:13 dadix Connection time out
21:15 Obani Calinou, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3429
21:15 Obani I hacked my client for that case :x
21:15 Calinou yeah, used to but since I use Git it breaks all the time
21:18 est31 well its unfair
21:18 est31 if you get red screen you cant see
21:18 est31 if you disable client side you have an advantage against players with a screen
21:19 Calinou it should be configurable anyway
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21:25 Calinou btw, Rust 1.5.0 was released, there now is a "cargo install" command to install packages
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21:28 dadix now I have another error
21:28 dadix wrong passord
21:29 dadix it's strange because with the same password I can connect from the GUI server
21:30 dadix but wen I open the server from terminal and i want to open the game with my client I have this error
21:30 dadix with : wrong password
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21:34 Out`Of`Control dadix:  your terminal server uses differend world/user data?
21:34 Jordach (。◕‿‿◕。)
21:34 dadix I don't know
21:37 dadix I  have just 1 world
21:39 est31 oh nice
21:40 est31 Rust is a nice thing
21:40 est31 only bigger problem I have with it is that Cargo and all this stuff doesnt have debian packages
21:40 est31 and one has to trust the rust team to have built trustable compiler
21:41 est31 as the rust compiler is written in rust, you can't bootstrap
21:42 est31 if you really wanted to rebuild the rust compiler you would have to roll back the git to the ocaml days
21:42 est31 back then it was programmed in ocaml so you can use the ocaml compiler to compile it
21:42 est31 then you have to continuously rebuild the compiler, with increasing git tags
21:43 est31 I think the chain is around 200-400 rebuilds
21:43 est31 to comparison: gcc is written in c++ (most parts are still c) and llvm is written in c++ as well
21:44 est31 but there are many many c compilers
21:44 est31 and there is an old version of gcc which can be used to build newer versions of it
21:44 est31 so 3 steps maximum to get gcc / llvm from a c compiler
21:45 est31 but I do think that the rust project is one into the right direction.
21:49 * edj doesn't think Rust will ever gain significant traction because the syntax is too different.
21:50 kahrl hrm, how hard would it be to build a barebones rust compiler, written in C or similar, that perhaps doesn't optimize much and perhaps doesn't fully check type correctness?
21:51 kahrl but that is enough to compile the actual rust compiler?
21:51 est31 kahrl, idk, rust the compiler has around 200k lines
21:51 est31 but yeah, in fact if I had tons of time I would even start such a project.
21:51 est31 it would be himmelfahrtskommando i know
21:54 dadix who knows where is installed minetest-server?
21:54 dadix which folder?
21:55 est31 dadix, dpkg -L minetest-server
21:57 kahrl or if it wasn't installed through dpkg, you could try "which minetest-server" or "locate minetest-server"
21:57 dadix i installed from ppa
21:58 kahrl then the dpkg command should work
21:59 dadix thanks
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23:29 rubenwardy Damn, Ludum Dare is this weekend but no team :'(
23:29 rubenwardy Will have to solo
23:29 rubenwardy Will probably use godot
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23:50 rubenwardy wait, I misunderstood. I'll probably do the compo.
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