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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-11-08

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00:27 Megaf_ !server microship
00:27 MinetestBot Megaf_: No results
00:27 Megaf_ what is microships server?
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03:00 BBmine tell obani that his advice worked.
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04:34 blaise :D
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05:06 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Default/mapgen: Tune biome points for improved disribution 3d6f168 http://git.io/v88so (2015-11-08T05:04:39Z)
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05:32 blaise what was that mod that had reinforced picks ?
05:32 blaise was it gloop?
05:33 blaise would end up with a green pick that would last a lot longer than mese or diamond pick?
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05:43 swift110-phone Hrywguy
05:44 swift110-phone Hey guys
05:46 blaise howdy
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07:28 Krock Good morning, everybody :)
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07:58 gregorycu Morning
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09:49 DevilMayhem This is my first time using irc. anyone can help me?
09:49 RealBadAngel whats ur problem?
09:50 DevilMayhem i dont know who can read my messages for one
09:50 RealBadAngel if youre writing in public chan everybody can read it
09:51 RealBadAngel if you need to send private msg type /msg nick ur_message_here
10:07 Ingar yep, you're doing it wrong
10:08 Krock I guess your client also supports double-clicking on a name to open the private chat
10:08 Krock ouch.
10:08 Krock He's gone
10:09 Ingar made grass footsteps last night, they might actually be usable
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10:17 Telesight Hello all, is it "normal" that if a player builds above/in a big waterarea the cpu load is raised by 2% ?
10:17 gregorycu 2% isn't that much
10:18 gregorycu for how long is it raised 2%?
10:18 Telesight For as long as he is there ...
10:18 gregorycu he being the player?
10:18 Telesight It is a normal player ..
10:19 gregorycu I can look into this, in about 30 minutes
10:21 Telesight That is fine ...
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10:57 robert_ so is minetest compatible with minecraft in any way, or is it just marketing? (Or am I half-asleep?)
10:58 gregorycu It aims to be functionally compatable
10:58 gregorycu Same sort of concept
10:59 robert_ ah.
11:03 robert_ so it won't be able to use like any mods, then?
11:03 gregorycu No
11:04 sfan5 "or is it just marketing?"
11:04 sfan5 huh
11:04 sfan5 where did you read something about MC compatibility?
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11:05 robert_ "Want to install dozens of mods at once? You can. Want to play Hunger Games? No problem!"
11:06 sfan5 that doesn't imply any sort of compatibility to Minecraft
11:07 robert_ then "I'm half-asleep." Got it.
11:07 robert_ but I thought I saw somewhere there was a hunger games mod for minecraft.
11:08 sfan5 possibly
11:08 sfan5 whoever wrote that probably meant the concept not the MC mod itself
11:12 robert_ aha
11:12 robert_ where are the seeds?
11:12 robert_ oh, nevermind.
11:20 Ingar meh ethereal uses dirt sound as grass sound
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11:35 Obani robert_, you were asking for the seeds ?
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11:36 Ingar have some sound https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=14&t=13437
11:36 Ingar not perfect yet, but better
11:36 Ingar imho, better than what's in git now ^^
11:36 Obani robert_, the only way MC is compatible with MT might be maps and texture packs
11:37 Obani You can convert MC maps and texture packs to MT ones
11:37 Ingar as a side-question, are there hooks for water-related sounds ?
11:38 Obani Ingar, what do you mean ?
11:38 Ingar I particulary miss the splonsh when jumping into the water from a high building
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11:38 Obani there isn't any sound for water yet I think
11:38 Ingar Obani: I'm making sounds
11:38 Obani while I'm making some too
11:39 Ingar need to know how to reference them in the lua game code
11:39 Obani Ambience modpack includes several sounds added, there are some water sounds there
11:40 Ingar interesting
11:42 Obani But their quality is....hem... :P
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11:43 Ingar I have some usable water fx in my wav library
11:44 Ingar also
11:44 Ingar when you walk on the bottom of a lake
11:44 Ingar you get the sound of the surface you're walking on
11:45 Ingar should probably be something else
11:45 Obani Ingar, including to Minetest is a real problem
11:45 Ingar Obani: how so ?
11:45 Obani Because each sound will be charged at the launch in an uncompressed format
11:45 Obani a music = 200 Mo loaded
11:45 Obani 5 musics = 1 Gb
11:45 Obani Mb*
11:46 Obani That's why many servers don't use mods like ambience_modpack
11:46 Ingar Obani: that's a music issue, normal sounds aren't that big
11:46 Obani And that's why ambience modpack as so bad quality sounds
11:46 Ingar you'll need sound fx uncompressed anyway
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11:47 Ingar engin eshould probably stream the music
11:47 Obani including too much sfx to default game
11:47 Obani would not be appreciated I think
11:47 Ingar Obani: but I can understand becasue my own game has exactly the same problem :D
11:47 Obani As minetest is about minimalism
11:47 Ingar Obani: right now, I'm just replacing the default ones
11:48 Ingar and add the ones that are seriously missing, or where the default sounds ridiculous
11:48 Obani The invert exists, games who use BMP format for their games
11:48 Obani Loading time reduced, but 1 Gb of textures
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11:50 Jordach do i see lego starfighters!?!
11:50 Ingar Jordach: yes, but that was a test ;) they're not included in the default game data
11:50 Jordach ooo
11:50 Ingar Obani: the good solution is to have special code for music in the engine
11:51 Obani This will never be agreed I think
11:52 Obani music is important in the game process
11:52 Obani But nobody cares about i
11:52 Obani it*
11:52 Obani Cause nobody understands how it's important
11:52 Obani It's like freedom
11:52 Ingar Obani: that I totally agree on
11:52 Ingar that music is important
11:52 Obani Everyone thinks freedom is cool
11:52 Obani Nobody fights for it
11:52 Ingar well
11:53 Obani Cause nobody understands how it's important
11:53 Ingar has anyone ever written a patch with music support
11:53 Obani Well the only way to add music to the game is to use a lua mod
11:53 Ingar no I mean
11:53 Obani So it has to be charged as a mod sound
11:53 Ingar has anyone ever written a music handling module for the engine
11:53 Obani It's the only way
11:53 Ingar start coding
11:54 Obani I don't think so
11:54 Obani I told you
11:54 Obani Nobody cares about music
11:54 Ingar but my question still stands
11:54 Ingar has anyone ever done a proper implementation
11:54 Obani The only ones who understand this are musicians (in their subjective way, cause they're musicians), and gamers who studied the question of "what is important to the game feeling?"
11:54 Ingar in C++
11:55 Obani Even if the music is not good, if it fits well with the game, it will be good
11:55 Obani And make part of the game experience
11:55 Obani e.g : SuperTux musics
11:56 Obani THey're bad midi musics
11:56 Obani But they become good playing the game
11:56 Obani It's the same for old games musics
12:00 Obani OMG I'm making da sci-fi music xD
12:04 Calinou Obani, would be nice if you made music like this https://up1.ca/#ZJMeHBVvMVfNoF5YwgNfYw
12:06 Obani Calinou, easy, but this one is really cheap :P
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12:07 Obani Calinou, why should I make a music like this one ? ^^
12:07 Obani For some FPS project ? actually I'm working on the musi of the board game :p
12:08 Obani music*
12:08 Obani argh my ears
12:08 Obani the music is not so good but the most awful is the mix ><
12:11 Obani getting back to my 80's trip
12:13 Obani Calinou, you want me to make a DnB music for ..?
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12:29 Fixer unable to connect to LinuxGaming2
12:33 Fixer working now
12:33 Fixer grrr
12:33 Fixer that texture problem is widespread
12:33 Fixer too bad
12:38 Fixer new screenshots of the problem https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=6&amp;t=13500&amp;p=197545#p197545
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12:44 Calinou Obani, don't know :D
13:07 Fixer Calinou: btw, Xonotic is the only game that is causing driver crash on Windows %)
13:08 Megaf_ !server Megaf
13:08 MinetestBot Megaf_: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 3/20, 1/6 | Version: 0.4.13-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 7ms
13:08 Megaf_ Fixer: yep, the Warzone AI is just too hard
13:08 Megaf_ Im just starting in the begining of the tech level and they come with gigantic rockets and radars and stuff
13:08 Fixer for true geeks
13:08 Fixer you can beat it
13:09 Megaf_ morning Krock
13:09 Krock good afternoon, Megaf_
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13:15 Calinou Fixer, vid_soft 1
13:15 * Calinou runs
13:15 Fixer lol
13:16 Fixer nexuiz is working fine anyway
13:16 Krock vid_soft?
13:16 Calinou software rendering
13:16 Calinou there also should be D3D9 rendering
13:16 Calinou maybe vid_d3d9 or something like that
13:16 Fixer that warm software rendering
13:16 Calinou try "apropos direct"
13:16 Fixer like in Half-Life
13:16 Fixer or Quake
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13:25 AndDT Calinou: but xonotic is based on darkplaces engine, iirc there is no software rendering
13:27 Hirato AndDT: there is
13:27 Fixer darkplaces is originally for Doom? or Duke Nukem?
13:27 Fixer or Quake 1?
13:28 AndDT Quake1
13:28 AndDT eduke32 is Duke Nukem
13:29 AndDT (G)ZDoom,ZDaemon,csDoom,odamex,skulltag(zandronum) are Doom
13:29 Calinou Fixer, Quake 1
13:30 Fixer i have eduke32 and I like it
13:30 Calinou AndDT, there is, DarkPlaces implemented its own
13:30 Calinou works in both Xonotic and Quake
13:31 RealBadAngel Obani, the music or the sounds doesnt have to be send by the server, they can be stored completely only on client side
13:31 RealBadAngel so such ambience mod can work on server and let the client play local files
13:31 Ingar RealBadAngel: the issue is probably that the client decodes all loaded music OGG files to WAV in memory
13:32 Obani RealBadAngel, I know, but did someone ever do that ?
13:32 Obani You can change textures locally, but can you change sounds ?
13:33 RealBadAngel just install ambience mod server side and move all the sound files from server to the client
13:33 AndDT Calinou: darkplaces-sdl +vid_soft 1 ?
13:33 RealBadAngel into /sounds folder
13:33 Obani RealBadAngel, does it exist ?
13:33 RealBadAngel create it
13:33 Obani nah
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13:34 RealBadAngel if theres such folder engine will search it and will play sounds from it
13:34 AndDT Yeah!
13:34 AndDT Cool
13:34 AndDT Calinou: first it didn't work because wrapper-script for darkplaces-sdl doesn't have $@
13:34 Fixer whooo wants sooome? -> http://hrp.duke4.net/
13:34 RealBadAngel this way you can either override server sounds or just provide sound files without need them being send from server
13:34 Obani RealBadAngel, you mean that the function exists but the sounds folder had never been included to minetest ?
13:35 Obani while textures folder always existed ?
13:35 RealBadAngel such funcionality is in the engine since years
13:35 Obani ._.
13:35 AndDT Coooooool, software rendering! Now I can play quake1 on my laptop with s3 virge (2000 year)
13:35 RealBadAngel also, you can have main menu music in it
13:35 Hirato what can I say, clearly no one has /heard/ about it ;)
13:35 Obani .-.
13:35 RealBadAngel just create that folder, put there main_menu.ogg and game will play it
13:36 Obani Ingar, This might interest you
13:36 Calinou AndDT, you can use vid_soft 1 then vid_restart
13:36 Obani RealBadAngel, thanks :D
13:36 Calinou AndDT, my phone (2560×1440) can play Quake at 60 FPS with OpenGL ES 1.1
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13:37 Fixer why would you play Q1 on phone?
13:37 Fixer you are some kind of mazo?
13:37 Calinou I finished e1m1 in easy in 41 seconds
13:37 Calinou 1 kill, 0 secrets
13:38 RealBadAngel Obani, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3038
13:40 Hirato lol
13:41 Obani "For the record: I am against music in the engine. This should be provided by games, like the menu textures currently."
13:41 Fixer guys that make custom maps for Duke Nukem are funny, to finish a map you need to find out switch combination... and there are ~50 of them %)
13:41 Obani This is stupid
13:41 Fixer music should be in games, yes
13:41 Obani Fixer, no
13:41 Fixer different game - different music
13:41 Obani this is totally stupid
13:41 Fixer why not?
13:42 Obani 5 musics = 1Gb loaded
13:42 Obani WHen it comes from a mod
13:42 Fixer o_0
13:42 Fixer 1gb?
13:42 Hirato lol, do they get decompressed in RAM permanently?
13:42 Obani yes
13:42 Fixer is it FLAC 92KHz or smth
13:42 Obani all sounds are decompressed
13:42 Hirato and are yours all 10 minute long 48kHZ files?
13:42 Obani 48kHz is awful to hear
13:42 Fixer O_o
13:43 Hirato lol
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13:43 Hirato audiophile detected
13:43 Obani To be listenable a music might be at least 112kb/s
13:43 Obani My real musics are 336kb/s
13:43 Hirato um... I said kHz
13:43 Hirato do you know what frequency is
13:43 Obani Oh
13:43 Obani Yeah sorry
13:43 Obani no sounds are 44,1kHz
13:44 Hirato there'd have to be closer to an hour's worth for it to reach 1GB
13:44 Obani 48kHz is unefficient if you don't have a great sound equipment
13:44 Obani And most of the players don't play with a great sound equipment
13:44 Hirato 48kHz seems pretty fine to me
13:44 Obani Even those who have some use it not for gaming
13:44 Hirato 96kHZ or even 192kHz is where you need the good stuff
13:45 Obani 44,1kHz is good too
13:45 Hirato that's just the quality they use for music CDs
13:46 Obani And it's pretty nice
13:46 Hirato I believe the reason is that it has a nyquist frequency of 22050Hz whereas the vast majority of humans can only hear frequencies under ~20KhZ
13:46 RealBadAngel Obani, who told you that oggs get decompressed into RAM?
13:47 Obani the server administrator I talked with/work with
13:47 Obani When we had musics, at launch, the server took 3Gb,5 RAM
13:47 Calinou lossless 16-bit 44100 Hz ought to be enough for everybody :P
13:47 Hirato most engines would cache decompressed sound effects (since they get used heaps) and stream music
13:47 Calinou if only it was actually lossless :p
13:47 RealBadAngel that could be true only for WAV files
13:48 Calinou anyway the difference is tiny between lossless FLAC and lossy Opus
13:48 RealBadAngel openal decompress only a piece of a music file for playing into buffer
13:48 Obani RealBadAngel, but those were all ogg
13:48 kahrl_ the server doesn't even link against libogg/libvorbis, how could it decompress those files?
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13:57 Telesight Hello all, is it "normal" that if a player builds above/in a big waterarea the cpu load is raised extra?
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14:28 Fixer minetest is all about raised extra, don't worry :)
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14:31 Telesight I did not know the difference would be this amount ...
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17:30 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Don't compile pcgrandom on Windows 337c02c http://git.io/v8RkI (2015-11-08T18:26:20+01:00)
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17:34 anotherPC why i am here?
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17:41 swift110 hey all
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17:51 Krock anotherPC, to read the boring and sometimes silly chat messages of other users
17:52 anotherPC Krock: lol
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19:44 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Some german translation improvements d657dce http://git.io/v8RHS (2015-11-08T20:42:38+01:00)
19:44 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Russian translation: remove weird char aabdf80 http://git.io/v8RH9 (2015-11-08T20:41:57+01:00)
19:44 MinetestBot [git] halmet94@gmail.com -> minetest/minetest: Translated using Weblate (Russian) cefa5b3 http://git.io/v8RHQ (2015-11-08T18:40:23+01:00)
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19:45 PilzAdam sfan5, ^  maybe at a limit for commits per second?
19:45 PilzAdam s/at/add/
19:45 sfan5 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
19:45 est31 61 new commits
19:45 est31 and I'll gonna add two more because its so much fun
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19:59 reber hi all
19:59 reber how to get a map of minetest in web format ? (zoomable)
20:03 Calinou reber, use MTSatellite
20:03 reber ok :)
20:03 Calinou https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=170525
20:03 Calinou https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=14&amp;t=10278
20:04 anotherPC Satellite for minetest, wow ^_^
20:12 est31 or reber alternatively use https://github.com/est31/leaftest
20:12 est31 it isnt live
20:13 reber est31, "isn't live" ?
20:13 reber "zoomable sloppy map."
20:14 est31 reber, MTSattelite has a live mode
20:14 est31 leaftest doesnt
20:14 est31 but MTSattelite requires you to use mtredisalize
20:14 reber if it's zoomable it's rather the same isn't it ?
20:14 est31 this rewrites how blocks are written
20:15 est31 well reber a live map has the advantage that you can see changes in real time
20:15 reber oh ok :)
20:15 est31 the moment sb builds
20:15 est31 its online
20:15 liq_ovr_ignore ._.
20:15 est31 if you need or want that, use MTsattelite
20:16 est31 if you want it more aligned to minetest's official format, use leaftest
20:16 reber ok. i hope to find "go" for armh ;)
20:16 liq_ovr_ignore RealBadAngel: that is tooo much blur, like heavy myopia
20:16 est31 leaftest has worse performance I think, but it still is fast.
20:16 est31 you'll have to fiddle if you use leveldb
20:17 est31 bc leveldb has very slow "get me a list of blocks" function
20:17 est31 and leaftest calls that function for each and every tile
20:21 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Settings tab: add v3f type 9a91f58 http://git.io/v8Rpy (2015-11-08T21:19:21+01:00)
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20:28 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Run util/updatepo.sh d506d56 http://git.io/v80eW (2015-11-08T21:26:42+01:00)
20:28 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Update minetest.conf.example and src/settings_translation_file.cpp 78caafb http://git.io/v80el (2015-11-08T21:23:09+01:00)
20:35 RealBadAngel liq_ovr_ignore, that was just gimp and test how could it look like
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20:42 liq_ovr_ignore personally, I disable blur in any game, yes, it looks bad
20:44 liq_ovr_ignore RealBadAngel: any news on PR 3166?
20:48 RealBadAngel liq_ovr_ignore, it was about blurring farmesh only
20:48 RealBadAngel http://i.imgur.com/9JJYg7T.jpg vs https://imgrush.com/X6Zh5Z_DBJ_X.jpg
20:54 liq_ovr_ignore exit due to storm
20:55 liq_ovr_ignore RealBadAngel: non blurred is better, first one
20:57 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Add LuaSecureRandom ad5ac39 http://git.io/v80Ik (2015-11-08T15:57:15-05:00)
20:58 hmmmm the problem with RBA's blur filter is that it's just a blur over the whole image
20:58 hmmmm that's stupid looking, I don't have eye problems
20:58 est31 well I guess only the far stuff can be blurred
20:59 hmmmm objects at a farther distance have more blur however, so if the blur only started applying to objects at a certain depth then that's fine
20:59 hmmmm and then as they go further back the blur radius increases
20:59 hmmmm depth blur is a common feature in games these days, anyway I thought that was quite obvious
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21:00 PilzAdam proper depth of field could improve farmesh a lot
21:00 hmmmm of course
21:00 hmmmm this is clearly a shader thing though
21:00 hmmmm probably should be committed separate from the new farmesh
21:00 PilzAdam poor windows / directx users
21:01 est31 https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=196094#p196094
21:02 PilzAdam est31, this is really badly done
21:02 PilzAdam it doesn't look like tilt-shift at all
21:04 est31 okay
21:04 * est31 no gfx guy
21:12 Miner_48er joined #minetest
21:17 hmmmm btw est did you see the print() regression
21:17 Leoneof joined #minetest
21:18 liq_ovr_ignore_b joined #minetest
21:19 JohnnyComeL8ly I have a question about cmake... how come the output doesn't say "LuaJIT enabled?"
21:19 est31 hmmmm, yes
21:19 hmmmm is it as trivial as i think it is?
21:19 est31 yes.
21:19 est31 I've commented on the issue
21:20 JohnnyComeL8ly Or an equivalent...?
21:20 JohnnyComeL8ly Ok, I see, thanks, est31.
21:20 est31 JohnnyComeL8ly, ask ShadowNinja about it, he has cleaned up the build system.
21:20 est31 feel free to fix it hmmmm. Or should I?
21:20 hmmmm you do it, it's YOUR bug
21:21 hmmmm yeah whoops I meant to say line feed.
21:21 hmmmm i wrote carriage return on accident, don't misunderstand the issue
21:24 liq_ovr_ignore_b blur is bad habit in games, don't use it, it looks cheap
21:26 PilzAdam liq_ovr_ignore_b, motion blur is
21:27 PilzAdam but depth of field is a) realistic and b) a good way for games to increase perceived viewing range in a rather cheap way
21:27 Jousway joined #minetest
21:28 liq_ovr_ignore_b depth of field can be noticed if only you are standing up to 100cm from a wall and then background will blur slightly, in other situations it just does not matter, you don't have iron sights or whatever
21:28 liq_ovr_ignore_b and MT is slow as a snail just now
21:29 liq_ovr_ignore_b imagine what it will be with this blurs, depths stuff, it is already has bad-fps-stutter gameplay and fancy stuff will not fix it
21:29 liq_ovr_ignore_b and farmesh is already "blurred" by definition, it is scale-down blocks :)
21:29 PilzAdam blurring far away areas will actually increase the viewing range, since we have to render less detail
21:30 PilzAdam so adding "fancy stuff" will actually increase "performance"
21:30 liq_ovr_ignore_b why? it will lower the range, because from server workload "blur + farmesh" > farmesh
21:31 liq_ovr_ignore_b do you believe in it? i only see slowdowns every release, every time it is even more lower fps and more stutters
21:31 PilzAdam the server has nothing to do with client side FPS
21:32 PilzAdam also this is not a matter of believing stuff
21:32 liq_ovr_ignore_b why not fix that ghod-damned issues with fps-stutter and only after that add fancy stuff
21:32 PilzAdam rendering less stuff will increase your FPS
21:33 PilzAdam and farmesh renders less stuff
21:33 liq_ovr_ignore_b RBA said server has influence on client's FPS
21:33 PilzAdam I don't get why you think it decreases performance
21:33 liq_ovr_ignore_b because you render more stuff with it? without it is just blocks that you see in your 35 nodes range or whatever you set
21:34 slut4steam fucking steam is way too distracting
21:34 PilzAdam you have a viewing range of 35 nodes?
21:35 liq_ovr_ignore_b fixed at 60, but my fps can go very low with that, so 35 is optimal, right
21:35 liq_ovr_ignore_b on ATI HD6870 *cough*
21:35 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Fix misc. MinGW and Valgrind warnings 6f95bb1 http://git.io/v80sj (2015-11-08T16:34:56-05:00)
21:35 JohnnyComeL8ly liq_ovr_ignore_b, I think 30 fps is optimal.
21:35 liq_ovr_ignore_b i need some Xeon + Titan to handle MT, looks like
21:35 liq_ovr_ignore_b 30 fps is baad
21:35 PilzAdam I have about 100 nodes with a GTX 460
21:35 PilzAdam with 60 FPS
21:36 JohnnyComeL8ly PilzAdam, do you use Linux?
21:36 PilzAdam sure
21:36 liq_ovr_ignore_b you need at least 60 FPS for good gameplay
21:36 JohnnyComeL8ly With that setup, I mean.
21:36 liq_ovr_ignore_b and 30 is just horrible
21:36 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, sending whole blocks instead of single meta changes really decreases client performance
21:36 PilzAdam liq_ovr_ignore_b, maybe something else in your setup is broken
21:36 liq_ovr_ignore_b no
21:37 liq_ovr_ignore_b everyone is complaining
21:37 liq_ovr_ignore_b practically
21:37 JohnnyComeL8ly liq_ovr_ignore_b, I think you are mistaken... it isn't horrible... horrible is 15 fps.
21:37 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, the server only has indirect influence onit
21:37 RealBadAngel moving an item in a chest is causing mesh updates for center block and all it neighbours
21:37 liq_ovr_ignore_b connect to Just Test and report your FPS on spawn *cough*
21:37 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, a server owner can't tell the clients to lock their FPS at 30
21:37 RealBadAngel imagine now technic machines workin
21:37 liq_ovr_ignore_b or LinuxGaming2 *cough*
21:37 RealBadAngel that will kill fps easily
21:37 liq_ovr_ignore_b I can have 60fps.... in a rock desert too
21:38 STHGOM joined #minetest
21:38 RealBadAngel that is what #3166 is all about
21:38 liq_ovr_ignore_b i got 15 FPS on linux gaming 2 spawn
21:39 liq_ovr_ignore_b yes
21:39 PilzAdam liq_ovr_ignore_b, anyway, if you have a viewing range of 60 currently, you could (hypothetically, no actual data here) let farmesh start at 40 nodes range and you'd get an actual viewing range of 100 with the same FPS as currently
21:39 liq_ovr_ignore_b admins starts working with vending machines, and everything goes into snail mode
21:39 liq_ovr_ignore_b admin*
21:40 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, this is will affect regular meshes or farmesh
21:40 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, I cannot compute this sentence
21:40 liq_ovr_ignore_b i consider 60 nodes pretty small view range, 100 + farmesh will be super good, but that needs GeForce Titan for MT to handle
21:40 RealBadAngel simply all developed worlds, spawns especially suffer constant mesh regeneration
21:41 PilzAdam liq_ovr_ignore_b, again, I have a GTX 460
21:41 PilzAdam that is far from a titan
21:41 RealBadAngel and thats more visible weaker the client box
21:41 RealBadAngel i mean less fps
21:41 liq_ovr_ignore_b PilzAdam: don't get me wrong, if you have fresh world in singleplayer, i can get 120 fps easily (+lots of stutters), but in multiplayer... anything with a few houses decreses performance a lot
21:42 liq_ovr_ignore_b and that crappy culing...
21:42 RealBadAngel thats why VE spawns got a few FPS
21:42 PilzAdam liq_ovr_ignore_b, but do you understand that farmesh will increase the perceived performance?
21:42 liq_ovr_ignore_b looking at wall does not even increase your fps in most situations (in houses) %)
21:42 RealBadAngel clients just got spammed with unnecesary mesh regen requests
21:42 cyberarm joined #minetest
21:43 liq_ovr_ignore_b PilzAdam: "perceived", yes
21:43 PilzAdam RealBadAngel, why do you keep talking about this? this is not relevant currently
21:43 liq_ovr_ignore_b i understand
21:43 PilzAdam you just generating noise
21:43 PilzAdam liq_ovr_ignore_b, good then
21:44 liq_ovr_ignore_b it is just... on any server it is SLOW already, and farmesh will make it even slower :( but I do like how celeron's made it, I love it
21:45 PilzAdam *sigh* why do you say again that farmesh will slow stuff down?
21:45 PilzAdam I thought you just agreed that it doesn't
21:45 liq_ovr_ignore_b it will add "view range" at the expanse of slowing down
21:46 liq_ovr_ignore_b but it renders more stuff, how can it not lower your fps?
21:46 liq_ovr_ignore_b imagine
21:46 liq_ovr_ignore_b i have 60 nodes view with 60 fps on outskirts
21:46 liq_ovr_ignore_b not i will have 60 nodes + farmesh > more rendering > lower fps
21:46 liq_ovr_ignore_b now*
21:47 PilzAdam farmesh would start at a lower range then you currently have
21:47 PilzAdam so the amount of stuff you save there can be added as additional range
21:47 liq_ovr_ignore_b okay, interesting to see it in real gameplay, 60 nodes is pretty close
21:47 PilzAdam yeah, the actual detail on this needs to be actually tested
21:47 PilzAdam but the idea should be clear
21:48 liq_ovr_ignore_b i want the binary, i will compare fps when it is released
21:48 liq_ovr_ignore_b what i don't see on this screenshots... is place of transition
21:50 liq_ovr_ignore_b farmesh is cool thing, at least looking on screenshots, now we will have not just slow minetest, but slow minetest plus farmesh, that is good thing :) ._.
21:50 liq_ovr_ignore_b i remember his first farmesh
21:51 liq_ovr_ignore_b it was much more crappy and buggy
21:51 liq_ovr_ignore_b and was 1% as good as it is a new one
21:53 liq_ovr_ignore_b not related to minetest, this game has interesting rendering of far distances -> https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mZaRyqEnxqw/T60ZEn7​gzpI/AAAAAAAACFU/LWFQoQ2g06g/s1600/project+igi​+1+game+free+download+full+version+%283%29.jpg
21:53 liq_ovr_ignore_b it is called Project I.G.I., I have it, it is from 2001 iirc
21:53 liq_ovr_ignore_b what is interesting, is it can render huge valleys on GeForce 2MX card
21:53 RealBadAngel PilzAdam, i recalled to prove that server has sometimes dramatical impact on clients performance
21:54 RealBadAngel especially FPS
21:54 liq_ovr_ignore_b RealBadAngel: will believe in it only after test myself
21:55 liq_ovr_ignore_b i can capture vanessa's server spawn, install the mods, and check FPS/gameplay with patch and without it
21:56 RealBadAngel theres nothing to believe: sending 200 bytes and no mesh regen for single meta change vs current approach: sending whole mapblock and 3x3 mabplock meshes regen
21:56 liq_ovr_ignore_b RealBadAngel: why not commit? players will benefit a lot
21:57 RealBadAngel i havent finished that commit yet theres lotsa to optimize still
21:57 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Write new line character sequence at end of print() 4ae6e50 http://git.io/v80Wf (2015-11-08T22:56:56+01:00)
21:58 est31 liq_ovr_ignore_b, it would be better to download the whole server instead of just the spawn
21:58 liq_ovr_ignore_b also, somewhere, there was mentioned about occlusion per each block improvement
21:58 est31 The link is http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hob​bies/minetest/worlds/Survival_World.tar.bz2
21:58 liq_ovr_ignore_b hmm
21:58 est31 and the mods are basically just dreambuilder_game
21:58 liq_ovr_ignore_b nice
21:59 liq_ovr_ignore_b i guess I will download it
21:59 liq_ovr_ignore_b oh damned
21:59 liq_ovr_ignore_b 9Gb
21:59 liq_ovr_ignore_b -_-
21:59 liq_ovr_ignore_b spawn only, sorry, I have 2Mbit
21:59 liq_ovr_ignore_b spawn + 200 nodes away radius can be good
22:01 liq_ovr_ignore_b Project I.G.I. from 2001 renders huge areas that you can actually walk to, wonder how they did it, it looks so simple, yet nice
22:03 * liq_ovr_ignore_b looks at  Lighting bug with water #3004
22:04 liq_ovr_ignore_b also, that texture tear issue should be on high priority please, too much of it -> https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=6&amp;t=13500
22:07 rubenwardy liq_ovr_ignore_b, it's easy to render large amounts of height map terrain
22:08 rubenwardy Nearly all rendering engines have level of detail for terrains
22:12 e1z0 joined #minetest
22:17 liq_ovr_ignore_b hope is not lost, btw, LinuxGaming now eats only 2 Gigabytes of RAM on 0.4.13, not 6GB as was earlier, fps looks lower though
22:19 liq_ovr_ignore_b also, dynamic range finder is annoying for me too, too much fog problems with it
22:20 thefamilygrog66 joined #minetest
22:21 thefamilygrog66 howdy folks
22:22 liq_ovr_ignore_b est31: i can confirm that water problem you having / Issue 3004
22:22 JohnnyComeL8ly thefamilygrog66, howdy!
22:23 liq_ovr_ignore_b liq_ovr_ignore_b: tested on one of the latest Krock builds, I have this problem with bucket too
22:24 JohnnyComeL8ly liq_ovr_ignore_b, you should have a linux distro that you use to build MT from source.
22:24 liq_ovr_ignore_b i have Win 7
22:25 JohnnyComeL8ly I don't use Luz 7.
22:25 JohnnyComeL8ly ;-D
22:25 liq_ovr_ignore_b it is tolerable, next ones are crap
22:26 JohnnyComeL8ly Same sentiments.
22:27 liq_ovr_ignore_b est31: reproduced -> https://i.imgur.com/XfkcEZu.png
22:27 JohnnyComeL8ly I don't have to use Win, so that's a win win.
22:27 * thefamilygrog66 uses both windows and linux
22:28 JohnnyComeL8ly thefamilygrog66 should finish migrating.... ;-)
22:28 * thefamilygrog66 needs to keep his job, but uses linux at home, haha
22:31 * JohnnyComeL8ly understands now!
22:31 liq_ovr_ignore_b wonder, how much cpu time that new mesh will use, what max_lag we will see
22:32 liq_ovr_ignore_b I do like 98se/nt4/2000/xp/7... but next ones are not good, too much tablet and fancy
22:32 thefamilygrog66 I have a bit of a strange issue: my server appears in the server list, and there are players currently on it, but my client times out when trying to connect to it. If I remotely connect to the computer running it, and stop and restart the server from there, I can then log in. Any ideas?
22:33 liq_ovr_ignore_b i've heared about that on other servers too
22:33 liq_ovr_ignore_b i don't think there are any players actually playing on it
22:33 liq_ovr_ignore_b it is server freeze
22:33 liq_ovr_ignore_b probably
22:34 liq_ovr_ignore_b it just stops responding
22:34 liq_ovr_ignore_b you can't connect, and people that are connected are not playing it either
22:35 thefamilygrog66 That's part of the strangeness of it all: I can ftp to the debug log, and the server is still running.
22:35 thefamilygrog66 I suspected the frozen part too, but there is definitely still activity on there up to the minute.
22:37 liq_ovr_ignore_b it feels like at some point max_lag scyrockets and server starts to work sloooowly, and people time out
22:37 thefamilygrog66 I'm still running 0.4.11-dev, so updating might help I think.
22:39 thefamilygrog66 Would one of you mind trying to log in, to see if you can connect?
22:39 JohnnyComeL8ly thefamilygrog66, I'm thinking so! You should be aware of the "strict protocol" checks which 0.4.13 enforces though... you can't connect with a 0.4.12 client.
22:39 JohnnyComeL8ly thefamilygrog66, sure, which server?
22:39 thefamilygrog66 darkside.zapto.org:30003
22:40 thefamilygrog66 Is it not still possible to toggle the strict protocol in 0.4.13?
22:40 JohnnyComeL8ly thefamilygrog66, I'm not sure.
22:41 Jousway joined #minetest
22:41 thefamilygrog66 Okay, I know it's a setting in the config file for older versions, anyway.
22:42 thefamilygrog66 Were you able to connect, JohnnyComeL8ly?
22:47 JohnnyComeL8ly Sorry, my dad needed help with his PC....
22:48 est31 what the hell
22:48 est31 strict protocol checking is changeable in 0.4.13
22:48 JohnnyComeL8ly est31, sorry didn't know if it was.
22:49 est31 its called strict_protocol_version_checking
22:49 JohnnyComeL8ly thefamilygrog66, It keeps saying "Connection timed out."
22:49 JohnnyComeL8ly est31, boolean?
22:49 est31 yes
22:49 JohnnyComeL8ly Ok.
22:51 JohnnyComeL8ly I had heard from LazyJ that you had to have 0.4.13 or it wouldn't work... I suppose he didn't know about that option.
22:53 JohnnyComeL8ly Honestly, I don't see a need to change that option... ppl should be upgrading their software.
22:55 thefamilygrog66 They should in an ideal world, though more and more are playing on iOS and Android devices, which tend to stray behind
22:56 JohnnyComeL8ly Those "devices" are part of the problem in every situation... if Android were more open in philosophy, then it wouldn't be such a problem.
22:57 thefamilygrog66 True enough
22:57 JohnnyComeL8ly I'm not sure, but NDK could be a solution to bypass the Java nonsense.
22:57 thefamilygrog66 I find it nearly impossible to play on my phone/tablet anyway, though I'm old.
22:58 behalebabo joined #minetest
22:59 JohnnyComeL8ly Fruit Ninja, etc... is all that a tablet is good for.  Unless there is proper keyboard and mouse support for such a game.
22:59 JohnnyComeL8ly Or a gamepad.
23:00 JohnnyComeL8ly But, I like PC gaming best.
23:00 Viper168 shame they don't make a game console/cell phone, you could talk on it as if it were a taco perhaps
23:01 liq_ovr_ignore_b anyone used /emergeblocks?
23:01 Viper168 god did
23:01 Viper168 when he created the universe
23:02 Viper168 he said "let there be blocks" (and did /emergeblocks), and there were blocks
23:02 thefamilygrog66 mmm...tacos
23:02 Viper168 I guess a lot of people here may be too young to know the n-gage and taco talkin
23:04 Viper168 it's a shame they don't incorporate cellphone function into some of those new boards
23:04 Viper168 like pi, minnowboard, etc..
23:04 est31 it would require to lock down the firmware
23:04 est31 and make them more expensive
23:04 Viper168 could make your own cellphone/game device
23:04 est31 so its not done
23:04 Viper168 it would make those ones more expensive
23:05 Viper168 you can separate it on the board
23:05 Viper168 lock down the firmware on the phone part
23:05 Viper168 leave the rest open
23:05 thefamilygrog66 I remember seeing a picture of the n-gage. It was a nokia, wasn't it?
23:05 Viper168 yup
23:05 JohnnyComeL8ly But, then you still have proprietary stuff.
23:05 JohnnyComeL8ly Viper168, ^^
23:06 JohnnyComeL8ly Unless it is a ROM-R
23:06 Viper168 sometimes things don't always work out perfect
23:06 JohnnyComeL8ly If that makes sense.
23:06 Viper168 sometimes compromise is necessary
23:06 JohnnyComeL8ly Viper168, Is it possible to make it impossible to write a ROM chip?
23:07 JohnnyComeL8ly I'm thinking not.
23:07 thefamilygrog66 I still have my old Nokia 6600 kicking around somewhere
23:07 Viper168 JohnnyComeL8ly, as much as you can with a cell phone
23:07 JohnnyComeL8ly thefamilygrog66, I have an iPod 2g
23:07 JohnnyComeL8ly It is in "slavery."
23:07 Darcidride_ joined #minetest
23:08 Viper168 the phone part of the device needn't any direct access to that hardware even
23:08 Viper168 just have it send/receive commands from the computer portion of the board
23:08 thefamilygrog66 I found my old Creative Zen Stone the other day. I remember it sounding good at the time anyway...
23:09 Viper168 whatever interface you give it being programmed to send and receive the appropriate responses, your own phone firmware handling calls and such would not reside in the phone part
23:11 JohnnyComeL8ly Viper168, Oh, I see.
23:12 Viper168 I'm sure it will eventually come to being
23:13 Viper168 but not soon enough for my liking, cheaply enough for my liking
23:14 JohnnyComeL8ly lol yeah
23:14 DMackey- joined #minetest
23:14 Viper168 the way these boards are progressing into real powerful tiny mobile pcs practically, I don't doubt there will be increasing options for using them in communications devices
23:15 Glorfindel joined #minetest
23:15 Glorfindel where does the executable for minetest-mapper reside in ubuntu?
23:17 thefamilygrog66 the folder for minetestmapper is in my home folder, Glorfindel
23:17 Glorfindel ok, I'll look there
23:18 Puka joined #minetest
23:18 thefamilygrog66 Glorfindel, the C++ version right?
23:18 Glorfindel IDK, I'll check
23:19 Glorfindel I think so
23:20 Glorfindel I can't find it in there
23:33 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Add errno to socket creation failed exception 88a3977 http://git.io/v80Dr (2015-11-08T18:16:02-05:00)

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