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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-11-02

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Time Nick Message
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01:48 MinetestBot [git] kahrl -> minetest/minetest: Print --videomodes response to standard output, too 8f49358 http://git.io/vlRCa (2015-11-02T02:46:36+01:00)
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03:28 swift110-phone Hey
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03:50 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Rename and move basicmacros.h to util/basic_macros.h 965d112 http://git.io/vlRhK (2015-11-02T04:49:47+01:00)
03:50 est31 eww sorry
03:50 est31 have to fix it first
03:58 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Rename and move basicmacros.h to util/basic_macros.h eabfe09 http://git.io/vl0vF (2015-11-02T04:57:55+01:00)
04:33 hmmmm why didn't you rename it to util/misc.h?
04:33 hmmmm that's far better I agree
04:53 LazyJ Are mapgens v5 and v7 still experimental?
05:03 swift110-phone Hmm
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09:48 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Deviled Egg Day! ūüėÉ
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11:05 sabino How may I contribute with portuguese translate in wiki minetest?
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12:27 MinetestBot [git] gregorycu -> minetest/minetest: Speed up saving of profiling data by 27x 5c3546e http://git.io/vlg9Y (2015-11-02T13:25:21+01:00)
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13:57 Matsetes Ho guys!
13:58 Matsetes I've been playing with the 0.4.13 but I cannot figure out why I cannot find acacias and I am not able to view items in third person mode
13:59 Matsetes Is there anything to change in the config?
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15:04 fireglow Does anybody have a geoip mod for connecting IPs handy?
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15:37 JohnnyComeL8ly Megaf_: did you make up your away msg?
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15:49 fireglow aw, lua-geoip isn't available on FreeBSD
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15:52 JohnnyComeL8ly Use GNU/Linux, fireglow....
15:53 Megaf_ JohnnyComeL8ly: whats my away message?
15:54 fireglow JohnnyComeL8ly: no, but thanks. (lol)
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16:01 JohnnyComeL8ly Megaf_: I'm working on getting it....
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16:05 JohnnyComeL8ly Megaf_: I can't get the Away msg now... it let me before.
16:06 behalebabo "All Quassel clients vanished from the face of the earth... (I'm not online/in front of my computer now.)"
16:07 JohnnyComeL8ly Yes, thanks, behalebabo! ;-)
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16:18 kaeza o/
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16:36 E4xoi hai kaeza
16:36 E4xoi long time no see
16:43 Matsetes Has anyone noticed my questions?
16:45 * kaeza hugs E4xoi
16:45 kaeza how's it going?
16:45 * E4xoi hugs kaeza back
16:46 E4xoi nice enough
16:46 E4xoi how are you kaeza?
16:46 kaeza nice enough too :)
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17:03 JohnnyComeL8ly Matsetes: My opinion is just that: not the official rules; but I think that if you posted the question every five minutes, you'd be more apt to get help... reason being, that people leave and new people join, so it is nigh impossible for you to get help if hardly anybody gets the question. :-)
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17:07 JohnnyComeL8ly Matsetes, do you copy?
17:10 Krock pfft.. too many important header files changed ... seems to be a build from scratch again
17:11 JohnnyComeL8ly I suppose. ;-)
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17:11 Krock ShadowBot, are you okay?
17:12 Krock eww. No cleverbot behind
17:12 JohnnyComeL8ly ShadowBot isn't the same as ShadowNinja... or is it?
17:13 ShadowBot JohnnyComeL8ly: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
17:13 JohnnyComeL8ly Oh, it is a bot.... xD
17:13 JohnnyComeL8ly It just gave me a msg.
17:15 Krock ^ https://github.com/ShadowNinja/Limnoria-plugins/
17:17 JohnnyComeL8ly So, ShadowNinja owns that bot?
17:18 Obani VanessaE, inchra netsplitted :/
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17:20 cheapie Obani: As far as I can tell, osiris is having problems (it's veeeerrrrrryyyyy sssslllllooooowwww right now) and its connection to amun timed out.
17:21 Obani yes :/
17:21 cheapie I don't see anything unusual on the stats graphs, and yet everything on that server has slowed to a crawl. I've poked VanessaE a few times with no response yet.
17:26 crazyR im loving the co-operation going on in https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3292  its nice to see people actually working with each other rather than against. cant wait for this to be finished and pushed :D
17:26 crazyR *merged
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17:29 Ingar tell me when it's piushed so I can debug it :p
17:30 Ingar *pushed
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17:33 * Jordach meows at PilzAdam
17:34 Jordach trying to implement GoL in MT is difficult - but fun at the same time
17:35 Jordach i'm also considering adding in rule configurations
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17:37 Matsetes I've been playing with the 0.4.13 but I cannot figure out why I cannot find acacias and I am not able to view items in third person mode
17:37 Matsetes Is there anything to change in the config?
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17:42 PilzAdam Jordach, you want to implement game of live in Minetest?
17:42 PilzAdam maybe look at https://github.com/PilzAdam/wireworld for that
17:42 Jordach am working on it personally
17:43 Krock 3D wierworld blocks pls
17:43 Krock *wireworld
17:44 PilzAdam it's already 3D
17:45 PilzAdam width, height and time
17:45 Krock >.<
17:45 Krock 4D, then, pls.
17:46 Krock Creating huge wierworld circuits in the air might be funny sometimes :)
17:48 PilzAdam it's already 4D
17:48 PilzAdam there is an on/off switch
17:49 Krock I didn't know that it is possible to add another axis for a boolean value (switch on/off)
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18:07 JohnnyComeL8ly Matsetes: Try /grant singleplayer fly,fast
18:07 JohnnyComeL8ly You'll be able to cover ground faster that way.
18:08 Krock try /grant singleplayer all if you want to save 5 letters
18:08 JohnnyComeL8ly F7 should make the viewpoint different.
18:09 Krock It doesn't just 'should' it does.
18:09 Calinou http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_‚Äčitem&amp;px=GNU-Linux-Libre-4.3-Kernel
18:10 Matsetes JohnnyComeL8ly I can change the view but cannot view items
18:10 Krock It's a lovely gnu.
18:11 Krock Matsetes, if it's a display bug - screenshot or it didn't happen
18:12 Matsetes Krock what?
18:12 Matsetes You need proofs?
18:12 Krock *scrolls up to read the content*
18:14 Krock \o/ George Boole's 200th birthday
18:15 Krock Matsetes, are you using mgv5, 7 or math?
18:16 Matsetes Mgv6 i think
18:16 Matsetes isn't it the default?
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18:17 Krock https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game‚Äč/blob/master/mods/default/mapgen.lua#L983 default.register_decorations() called when the mapgen is v5, v7 or math (everything except singlenode and v6)
18:17 Krock So using another mapgen will give you such trees
18:17 Calinou this will happen if I model the chairs for my table: http://i.imgur.com/nIDNnsL.gif
18:18 Krock WEEEEE
18:18 Krock oh noes, ShadowBot!
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19:05 twoelk Calinou: will you add that effect player animation when using your chairs?  ;-P
19:06 Calinou animation would be easy to make
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19:07 Fixer bew Krock build is out, I will give it a try
19:07 Jordach *cough entitynode*
19:08 paramat Matsetes acacias are not in mgv6 because there are no savanna biomes, acacias are in mgv5 and mgv7
19:09 Matsetes And why I cannot view item in third person?
19:09 * twoelk thinks we could use a lot more default player avatar animations if only that wouldn't add more lag
19:10 Fixer there is too much lag
19:10 twoelk Matsetes: what jkey are you using?
19:10 Calinou needs client-side scripting...
19:10 Calinou Matsetes, there's no system in Minetest where you can see the items players have in hand in third person
19:10 Matsetes Jkey?
19:10 Fixer we should torture developers... by forcing them to play on actual game
19:10 Fixer dat inventory lags... drives me mad
19:11 Matsetes Calinou I read that on the latest changelog
19:11 twoelk Fixer: read #minetest-dev of today - some interesting issues addressed
19:12 twoelk Matsetes: try F7
19:12 Fixer twoelk: i did... like it is going to solve stuttering, lags, low fps, whatever... it feels like i'm a mazo playing it... but I love it actually, if not performance issues on pretty good PC
19:12 Fixer great game
19:13 * Krock agrees
19:13 Fixer with annoying bugs for years
19:13 Matsetes twoelk I know how to view myself on third person
19:13 Fixer Calinou: btw, I know you have awesome moreblocks, moreores... say, why not morerocks from you? %)
19:14 twoelk Matsetes: I must have missunderstood your question, tzry to rephrase
19:14 twoelk -z
19:14 Calinou Fixer, moreponies, moreplayers, morenoobs, morechairs... :)
19:14 Fixer technic has some new rocks, but it will be cool to have separate addon with different kinds of nice rocks
19:14 Calinou there could be a morenoobs mod
19:14 Calinou it creates messages in chat, like "how do i craft wood"
19:15 Krock lol
19:15 Elench How mine for fish?
19:15 Calinou and moreplayers, faking player joins/quits
19:15 Fixer Calinou: I guess we have everything now, but more decorative rocks could be nice
19:15 Matsetes In the changelog I read that you can view items that you hold in the third person view but I cannot. I can view myself but not what I am holding
19:15 Fixer however, 90% is building with that cobble
19:15 Krock better call it "driveunknowingmoderatorstorage_mod"
19:15 twoelk Fixer: there are tons of deco blocks out there allready
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19:16 Krock s/storage/s to rage
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19:17 Fixer there was mod with basalt somewhere
19:17 twoelk Matsetes: sounds like "wielditem" of 3d-armor mod
19:17 Matsetes Oh Calinou please, do morenoobs !
19:17 Fixer nope, morerocks
19:17 Fixer there are lots of rocks available
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19:18 Matsetes twoelk ?
19:18 Fixer it is quite easy to make them, hardest part is mapgen
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19:19 Matsetes Fixer rocks? Like marble and granite?
19:19 Fixer yes, they are available in technic
19:19 Fixer Vanessa's Dreambuilder has it I guess
19:19 Matsetes I know, I know
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19:19 twoelk Matsetes: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=4654
19:20 Fixer that is useful addon
19:20 Fixer i like it
19:20 Matsetes twoelk But I read it in the changelog of 0.4.13
19:20 Fixer what i don't understand... is why six slots?
19:21 * twoelk is confused
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19:22 Fixer I wonder, if it is possible to pregenerate, say, 1000 blocks in all directions and play without stutters? could this be added somehow? stutters is unlikely to be fixed in this century
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19:22 Fixer emergeblocks?
19:23 Matsetes Make attached objects visible in 3rd person view (est31)
19:23 Matsetes It's written in the changelog
19:24 Fixer twoelk: i've seen gregory did some profiling of things... hope has been increased
19:25 * Fixer wonders why there is no minetest_game in Krock's build
19:25 Matsetes And what changes from mapgen v5/v6/v7?
19:26 * Krock tells Fixer that's it is to have less data to download
19:26 Obani Fixer, you should rename yourself as reporter :p
19:26 Fixer bug reporter?
19:26 Fixer i report them on forum, sorry for not registering on github for that
19:27 Fixer maybe i will, some time later
19:27 * Krock adds the reason "And to start with a self-chosen subgame" quickly
19:28 Fixer new settings tab is so geeky
19:29 Fixer lets see how it works
19:29 twoelk Fixer: if I fly around and load a large part of the map and then settle down and play in a small area, I still may have "stutter" if the view is set too high/far or I interact with formspecs or objects that have to check protection befor reacting to interact
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19:30 Fixer you can install FRAPS, to see how much it stutters, much better than built-in graph
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19:30 Fixer twoelk: there is even torch stutter
19:30 twoelk clientside lua or better prediction system might make this better some day
19:30 Fixer place lots of torches or start digging.. and stutters will increase
19:31 Fixer but main problem is mapgen one
19:31 Fixer i have 1Tb hdd with >100 mb read speed (sequential), but stuttering sometimes is extreme, when woods are generated or big mountains
19:32 twoelk well mapgen especially luamapgen is a quite heavy load
19:32 Fixer that's part of the problem
19:32 Fixer another problem is weird network fps stuttering
19:32 Fixer fps-over-network-stutter
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19:32 Matsetes I feel so lonely... Anyone that can help a little noob?
19:32 Fixer when admins goes to work with vending machines on server... it starts to laaaag and fps goes down too
19:32 Fixer for everybody
19:32 Fixer this is crazy
19:33 Fixer that is the issue that RBA found
19:33 Fixer also
19:33 Fixer mapgen on server is causing big lag for us when we play, at least on Extreme Survival Minetest
19:33 Fixer max_lag goes >2 for sure
19:33 twoelk yeah - privs or protection check seems to generate lag
19:34 * Krock wonders why Matsetes describes him-/herself as a nooob
19:34 twoelk probably beacause only the server computes this
19:34 Fixer however, when there is no mapgen work, it is much easier on server, like on ESM chaos, limited by 500 nodes area
19:35 Matsetes Cause I cannot understand why my friend view items in third person and me no
19:35 Fixer even more annoying is item transfer, just horrible, every day, or door lag :)
19:35 Fixer yesterday i was waiting door for ~10 sec to open
19:36 Krock Matsetes, the wielded item?
19:36 twoelk if several players open chests or vending machines at the same time things fet interesting like with the flushing toilets generating lag because people injoyed the sound
19:36 Fixer lol
19:36 Matsetes Krock  yes
19:37 Fixer people work with inventory/chests/vendings/depositing all the time, any big server has lots of shops
19:38 Krock Matsetes, your friend installed and enabled a mod that's called "wielditem" to see those while being in 3rd person view
19:38 twoelk add a supply system of tubes to that and automated resource mining and you get VE-S spawn lag
19:38 Krock Matsetes, you will also see the items of the other players if you're using the mod on a server
19:39 Fixer twoelk: it feels like there's some kind of mapgen lock ups or whatever, you can have 100FPS average with awful slowdowns for 50-100ms, that is very noticable on new PCs
19:40 Fixer you can make it 1000... but it will do that 100 ms stutter anyway, ruining gameplay
19:40 Fixer hmm, spawned on glacier biome
19:41 twoelk that hi-end hardware has strange lag issues that are more noticable than on weaker machines has been noticed before
19:41 Fixer of course, there is a reason
19:41 Matsetes twoelk Make attached objects visible in 3rd person view (est31)
19:41 Fixer i noticed myself on my slow notebook
19:41 Matsetes Krock Make attached objects visible in 3rd person view (est31)
19:41 Fixer reason is ... low fps :)
19:42 Matsetes That is stated in the changelog
19:42 Fixer on slow PC you have 40 ms (25FPS) at best, and lots of stutters are with in this range
19:42 twoelk Matsetes: link please
19:43 Krock Matsetes, I think that's more like when you are sitting in a cart and watch yourself being inside
19:43 Fixer so you will not notice them match, because it is near average
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19:44 Matsetes_ http://dev.minetest.net/Changelog
19:46 Fixer twoelk: example of mapgen stutter, http://i.imgur.com/OqnXqMs.png, notice 240 ms (that is 4 FPS)
19:49 Matsetes_ I dunno why
19:49 * twoelk is staring minetest to search for wielded item in default
19:49 Matsetes_ Really dunno
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19:52 * twoelk can't find reference to wielded item item in git so concludes attached object is indeed behavior with carts and boats
19:53 Matsetes_ Well I will ask to my friend why he can view them XD
19:53 Matsetes_ Thanks
19:53 Krock !next
19:53 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
19:54 twoelk Matsetes_: well does he use armor?
19:54 Krock *cough*
19:54 Krock !mod wield
19:54 MinetestBot Krock: 3d visible wielded items [wield3d] by stu - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=6407
19:56 Fixer twoelk: is not main game and mapgen are in separated threads (as developers say), so why stutter? it maybe slow to mapgen, but why slow down everything? also, MT uses only 1 core? that is bad news o_0
19:56 rubenwardy Fixer, mesh generation afaik
19:56 rubenwardy but I'm no expert
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19:57 Fixer when mapgen is working, first core shoots up to 100%
19:57 Matsetes_ I don't think he uses that mod...
19:58 Fixer hmm, maybe not 100% but more like 70-80%
19:59 Matsetes_ And, other question... What changes from mapgen v5 to v6 to v7?
20:00 Fixer oooh
20:00 Fixer just having a nice ||||| stutter, like on drugs
20:00 Fixer generated big mountains
20:01 Fixer steppy stutter, interesting
20:01 twoelk v6 is the basic normal one, v7 has more extreme landscape but needs some lua mapgen mod to get really interesting, v5 reuses old ideas and has a more unrealistic fantasy landscape
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20:03 twoelk Fixer: mapgen in layers?
20:03 ShadowBot joined #minetest
20:03 Fixer big mountains
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20:03 Fixer with woods
20:03 Fixer impressive
20:04 Fixer git one has same stutter problems for me anyway
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20:05 Fixer step-like stutter is like ~5 very periodic stutters in one seconds, feels *ic
20:05 twoelk Fixer: what happens if you flag a flat world or even use a flat mapgen mod?
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20:06 Fixer nice idea
20:06 Fixer i will look at it
20:06 Fixer or wait, it is not added yet?
20:07 Fixer will try it
20:08 twoelk compare using flags in minetest.config to using oner of the mods
20:10 Fixer ah, flat is v6 only
20:10 Fixer will try anyway
20:12 twoelk actually you might see a diferance if you also toggle the old mapgen-griever culprit cavegen :-P
20:13 Fixer fps is over 130 but sttuter is present on flat one (less one, max one is 50 ms for this minute)
20:13 Fixer trees enabled
20:13 Fixer 0.086
20:13 Fixer too big
20:13 twoelk disable caves
20:13 Fixer let me disable trees first
20:15 Fixer mgv6_spflags = nojungles, nobiomeblend, nomudflow, nosnowbiomes
20:15 twoelk then compare with https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=8952 and https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=8952 just for the fun
20:17 Fixer even with mgv6_spflags stutters are present, 125 FPS cap hit in a desert, stutters up to 40ms (25fps)
20:17 Fixer with grass
20:18 Fixer forgot to mention 60 nodes view
20:18 Fixer there are less stutters in a desert with those flags, for sure
20:18 Fixer will look without caves
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20:19 twoelk well decoration like plants and caves are added after initiall generation so mapgen might have 3 or so goes over the first creation before it gets final results
20:19 twoelk not to forget mudflow
20:19 Fixer mg_flags = flat, nocaves mgv6_spflags = nojungles, nobiomeblend, nomudflow, nosnowbiomes
20:20 twoelk worlds without mudflow can look pretty weird at tmes
20:21 Fixer hold on, got some trees
20:21 Fixer added notrees
20:22 Fixer funny
20:22 Fixer you walk with 0.00X for few seconds, then bam! 0.024
20:23 Fixer repeat again
20:23 Fixer stutter can be catched yet again by the eye
20:23 Fixer but it is much more rare
20:23 Fixer like 1 stutter per 3 seconds of run
20:24 twoelk hehe maybe if you enjoy investigating this in detail you might find out how expensive each element of mapgen is or wether there might be a fundimental problem like some jam in some que
20:24 Fixer 30 ms is pretty often
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20:25 twoelk not to forget the strange singleplayer network lag that has been around for a while
20:26 Fixer maybe firewall problem?
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20:26 Fixer never had this bug
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20:31 Fixer changing chunksize
20:32 * Jordach has stupid idea
20:32 Jordach made an accidential way to keep both my MTs in sync with oneanother
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20:33 rubenwardy twoelk, mtg has v7 biomes now
20:34 Fixer crash with chunksize = 20
20:35 Teckla mtg?  magic the gathering?
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20:39 Jordach Teckla, short way of saying Minetest Game
20:40 Jordach rubenwardy, found a non-git way of moving my development stuff between desktop and laptop
20:40 twoelk rubenwardy: aren't the somewhat rudimentary? haven't tried v7 in deafault again
20:40 Jordach mklink /j + symlinks
20:40 Jordach OwnCloud contains my textures, games, mods etc
20:40 rubenwardy links scare me
20:41 Jordach while i just use a client with those folders removed
20:41 rubenwardy twoelk, paramat did lots of work
20:41 twoelk oops, seems like "thick lazay fingers" time is approaching
20:42 twoelk typo here typo there typo everyware :D
20:43 * Jordach drops BFD and a new subgame into his owncloud MT dir
20:47 Jordach lmaoo--
20:47 Jordach i forget how big BFD is
20:48 Fixer twoelk: flatgen runs nice... but I can get stutters here too
20:48 Fixer 35 ms easily
20:49 Fixer stutter every ~6-10 sec in here
20:49 twoelk so mapgen might not be the only culprit - which is as expected I  guess
20:50 Fixer it has very nice fps, but it is not stutter free for sure
20:51 Fixer twoelk: also, mesh generation correlates well with stutter
20:51 Fixer here
20:52 Fixer it is mesh load stutter?
20:52 Fixer you walk for few seconds clean, after that BAM - 20-30ms + 32 or less meshes load
20:56 Fixer twoelk: num_processed_mesh goes high when stutter occur
20:56 Fixer twoelk: on flatgen
20:57 twoelk sorry cant compute :D
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20:58 autumn80 hi
20:58 Fixer i will post on my topic about that
20:58 autumn80 hey
20:59 autumn80 hi
20:59 swift110 hey all
20:59 autumn80 hey
20:59 autumn80 who is on
20:59 autumn80 I'm trying to get on Craigs server irc
21:00 autumn80 so yah who is on IRC
21:01 Jordach aww yiss
21:01 Jordach symlinks and junctions on both laptop and desktop
21:01 rubenwardy http://darthjarjar.com/
21:01 rubenwardy I really hope that this is true
21:04 Jordach lolk
21:04 Jordach rubenwardy, same commit for engine on both lappy and desktop - no differences in engine makes me a happy mod dev
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21:19 Jordach aaaaaangggggg on
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21:50 Fixer hah
21:50 Fixer http://www.michaelfogleman.com/craft/ that is example of stutter free game
21:50 Fixer super smooth
21:50 Fixer very immersive
21:50 Fixer i like the view
21:53 rubenwardy It's because there's nothing there
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22:03 Fixer https://camo.githubusercontent.com/b1e517be706‚Äč5bb25baf1e3e1d6b23902aad86b9f/687474703a2f2f69‚Äč2e696d6775722e636f6d2f534837776361732e706e67
22:05 rubenwardy yes, pretty blocks
22:06 rubenwardy But does it have crafting? iirc, it's only creative
22:06 rubenwardy MT has only been stuttering since 0.4.12
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22:13 Fixer rubenwardy: wrong, it was stuttering since 2011 iirc
22:13 rubenwardy nope
22:13 Fixer it is
22:13 Fixer i was complaining in 2012
22:13 rubenwardy Well, if you mean FPS then yes
22:13 Fixer fps stuttering due to mapgen and other issues
22:13 Fixer that is at least since 0.3.*
22:13 Fixer or what was in 2012
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22:14 Fixer that game has very nice sunset
22:14 Fixer super cool
22:15 Fixer rubenwardy: that game is creative only, but damn view looks good and polished
22:16 rubenwardy It's a small game, so there's less bloat
22:16 Fixer crashed once
22:16 Fixer yeah
22:16 Fixer has few bugs with fullscreen mode
22:19 Fixer feels almost real, so smooth with very good immersion, while in MT it is stutter or low fps or some far and close rendering glitch
22:20 Fixer one of the reason is probably better culing
22:20 Fixer for solid speed
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22:20 Fixer "Only exposed faces are rendered. This is an important optimization as the vast majority of blocks are either completely hidden or are only exposing one or two faces. Each chunk records a one-block width overlap for each neighboring chunk so it knows which blocks along its perimeter are exposed."
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22:21 Fixer and MT has only frustrum per chunk culling iirc
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22:27 Fixer that one is super annoying, wonder why only few people report it https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/6941454‚Äč/6275375/dc7e8782-b87e-11e4-8ff0-602a9b64d856.png
22:28 Fixer it could be spotted everywhere on different blocks on different distances
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23:43 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Add callback parameter for core.emerge_area() c2b5da7 http://git.io/vlKi0 (2015-11-02T18:43:09-05:00)
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