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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-10-17

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Time Nick Message
00:00 JohnnyComeL8ly Is it a game-changer?
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00:48 ShadowNinja I just made a mgv5 world -- there are about 20 dungeons within 120 nodes of the origin, and that's just the ones visible from the surface.
00:48 JohnnyComeL8ly That's a problem isn't it?
00:50 ShadowNinja Yeah.
00:50 ShadowNinja Huh -- seems cavegen runs in oceans too.
00:50 JohnnyComeL8ly ShadowNinja: I'm thinking that it shouldn't be an issue since there are two other compiled mapgens....
00:51 ShadowNinja Yeah, trying them now.
00:51 JohnnyComeL8ly mgv[6,7]
00:52 ShadowNinja v6 is good, but a bit boring and v7's given me a waterworld.
00:54 JohnnyComeL8ly I know some mods do like a certain version of  map gen... so maybe, do you have a mod that is grieving you?
00:54 JohnnyComeL8ly I can't recall the name of it for sure, but I'm thinking it is....
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00:55 JohnnyComeL8ly !mod ethreal
00:55 MinetestBot JohnnyComeL8ly: Could not find anything.
00:55 ShadowNinja Nah, just reset to a new seed and it looks great now.
00:55 JohnnyComeL8ly Ok, good.  Version 7?
00:55 JohnnyComeL8ly !mod Ethreal
00:55 MinetestBot JohnnyComeL8ly: Could not find anything.
00:56 JohnnyComeL8ly !mod Ethereal
00:56 MinetestBot JohnnyComeL8ly: Ethereal [ethereal] by Chinchow - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=7656
00:56 JohnnyComeL8ly There, I think that's it.
00:57 JohnnyComeL8ly It only works on mgv7.
00:57 ShadowNinja JohnnyComeL8ly: Yep.
00:58 ShadowNinja I'm planning on releasing a new public server soon BTW.  :-)
00:58 ShadowNinja A little defferent than what you're used to...
00:58 JohnnyComeL8ly How do you know what I'm used to? ;-)
00:59 JohnnyComeL8ly I could be back from the future, having played on your server already!
01:01 JohnnyComeL8ly Btw, that sounds like it could be fun... depending on if it requires low-latency.
01:01 JohnnyComeL8ly A connection of that type, I should say.
01:03 ShadowNinja Nah, it's more or less normal minetest, it's just got a twist that I haven't seen anywhere else yet.
01:06 JohnnyComeL8ly Oh.
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01:22 VanessaE ShadowNinja: did you mean to announce it on the public list?  I don't see anything that stands out.
01:22 JohnnyComeL8ly He said soon.
01:22 JohnnyComeL8ly It isn't yet there, or ready.
01:22 ShadowNinja ^
01:23 VanessaE also will someone PLEASE trim h2o.minetest.in's version/subgame/mapgen field?
01:23 VanessaE (or trim it in general)
01:25 JohnnyComeL8ly What are you talking about?
01:32 VanessaE JohnnyComeL8ly: h2o.minetest.in1/15   0/20.4.13, ../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../.​./../../../../var/games/minetest/H2O/version9, singlenode
01:33 VanessaE (just trim it to the last delimited element or say 25 chars, whichever applies to a given entry, imho)
01:36 JohnnyComeL8ly I still don't know where you are getting that from... :-S
01:36 VanessaE JohnnyComeL8ly: the public server list at servers.minetest.net
01:37 JohnnyComeL8ly Oh, I was not finding anything like that in MT (game) infos... so you why I'm confused.
01:37 VanessaE mmhmm.
01:37 VanessaE bbl
01:40 JohnnyComeL8ly Thanks for the guidance though.
01:42 JohnnyComeL8ly Btw, that escaped(?) uri doesn't make any sense....
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01:59 waressearcher2 JohnnyComeL8ly: its not escaped, escape is "\"
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02:05 JohnnyComeL8ly Yes, ok (I did put a question mark ;-)
02:05 JohnnyComeL8ly waressearcher2: What is the proper term?
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02:43 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Refactor thread utility interface 6be74d1 http://git.io/vC5lg (2015-10-16T22:20:24-04:00)
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02:59 Tiktalik_ guys, um
02:59 Tiktalik_ is minetest any good
03:00 VanessaE of course.
03:00 Tiktalik_ how are the mods?
03:01 VanessaE depends what you mean
03:01 VanessaE modding is a standard part of minetest
03:01 VanessaE lots of people made lots of good mods
03:01 Tiktalik_ does it have any comparable mod stuff to mc, as far as complexity and oddity goes
03:01 VanessaE I wouldn't know. never played MC.
03:02 est31 oddity lol
03:02 Tiktalik_ okay. how's the crafting and mining?
03:02 est31 in minetest you can encounter real nyan cats underground
03:02 VanessaE about as you'd expect I guess?
03:03 VanessaE you mine, you craft, you build, ?
03:03 est31 and you can far below -128 and far higher than + 128
03:03 est31 or 256 or whatever
03:03 VanessaE that too.
03:03 VanessaE I think it's -64 to +192
03:03 VanessaE or vice versa.
03:03 Tiktalik_ do there be jetpacks? a decent combat system?
03:03 VanessaE why would you need a jetpack?  fly priv.
03:04 VanessaE decent combat system?  couldn't tell you, I don't do pvp.  (but it exists)
03:04 Tiktalik_ ...I like jetpacks
03:04 Tiktalik_ I meant for pve, actually
03:04 VanessaE pve?
03:04 est31 player versus everybody
03:04 Tiktalik_ yeah, y'know, fighting off terrifying monsters
03:04 est31 ermm environment lol jk
03:05 VanessaE oh.
03:05 VanessaE there are MOB mods that include hostile, fighting creatures.
03:05 Tiktalik_ ah, okay.
03:05 est31 you will be disappointed by minetest's mobs
03:05 VanessaE yeah
03:05 est31 this isn't one of the parts it shines at
03:05 est31 not right now
03:05 VanessaE minetest isn't as fancy as MC from what I'm led to understand, but it's good enough for me anyway
03:06 Tiktalik_ est31: is that a lack of engine support thing or a lack of good mods thing
03:06 est31 partly both
03:06 Tiktalik_ VanessaE: I quit minecraft because at this point it's just got ridiculous
03:06 est31 you can do fairly decent mob mods
03:06 VanessaE ridiculous?
03:06 VanessaE I'm curious.  how so?
03:06 Tiktalik_ yeah
03:07 Tiktalik_ I'll pm you
03:07 Tiktalik_ if you don't mind
03:07 VanessaE just write it here
03:07 Tiktalik_ kk
03:07 VanessaE it might serve as inspiration for others here
03:07 VanessaE i.e. what NOT to do
03:07 Tiktalik_ alright, so
03:07 Tiktalik_ minecraft was not designed with the intent of becoming big or complex
03:08 Tiktalik_ the crafting grid was a good system for dealing with the 30 or so unique recipes
03:08 LazyJ VanessaE, whose version of the Minetest IRC mod do you use on your servers?
03:08 Tiktalik_ the inventory made sense
03:09 Tiktalik_ armor was pretty well balanced, each mob had a unique niche
03:09 Tiktalik_ the art was crap, but it was crap that went together
03:09 * LazyJ wonders if he used the correct form of "who" and cringes from school day memories.
03:09 VanessaE LazyJ: the regular upstream one by kaeza
03:09 Tiktalik_ then cool features just kept being tossed on
03:09 VanessaE heh
03:09 LazyJ Ah.
03:09 VanessaE "the art was crap, but it was crap that went together"
03:10 Tiktalik_ combat was revamped, like with swords you have to jump like an idiot to do more damage
03:10 VanessaE I have to remember that. :D
03:10 LazyJ Miner and I are trying to get that setup but are having no luck getting it to pipe back and forth between MT and the IRC servers.
03:10 Tiktalik_ bows stopped being machine guns, to everyone's delight
03:10 LazyJ *server
03:10 VanessaE (that could just as easily describe minetest, from what I've heard others say)
03:10 Tiktalik_ that was a good thing
03:10 est31 some people dont like the retro graphics
03:10 VanessaE jumping to do more damage?  that's stupid
03:10 Tiktalik_ um, stuff got added in like more trees, lots more blocks
03:11 Tiktalik_ potions
03:11 VanessaE bows (which exist in MT also, after a fashion) aren't rapid fire here, because each tool has a recoil/swing time
03:11 Tiktalik_ enchanting (really badly designed feature)
03:11 Hirato what I don't like is the strange blend of realism in the gameplay :P
03:11 Tiktalik_ then you pile on mods
03:11 Hirato let me jump higher and run faster!
03:11 Tiktalik_ more stuff to craft
03:12 Hirato without dying from bumping into blocks!
03:12 Tiktalik_ more resources to mine
03:12 Tiktalik_ better tools, faster furnaces
03:12 VanessaE Tiktalik_: sounds like you'd really hate my Dreambuilder sub-game then :)
03:12 Tiktalik_ it just kept going up in power, more or less
03:12 Tiktalik_ except none of the systems were made to handle it
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03:13 est31 minetest _is_ made to handle heavily modded servers/singleplayer
03:13 Tiktalik_ there had to be an in game recipe guide mod just so you could keep up
03:13 Tiktalik_ with the stupid recipes people had to use to avoid crafting conflicts
03:13 VanessaE we have that too, for the same reason :)
03:14 VanessaE however recipes tend not to be stupid
03:14 est31 you can have tens of thousands of recipes, and run them on a server without any problem.
03:14 Tiktalik_ because the crafting grid is NOT a good system for a lot of craftables
03:14 est31 same for blocks
03:14 VanessaE as we have things like technic CNC machine, moreblocks table saw, and so on
03:14 Hirato helps that we have up to 5x5 crafting benches
03:14 Tiktalik_ and of course
03:14 Tiktalik_ the extra ores, trees, seeds, foods, tools
03:14 Tiktalik_ those all pile up
03:15 Tiktalik_ to the point where you can't even go mining well at all, because your inventory is made to handle a lot of a few things, and a few of a lot of things clogs it up something fierce
03:16 VanessaE we have bags for that, and default stack max of 99
03:16 Hirato this is why the inventory in terraria keeps getting bigger without getting any more useful :P
03:16 VanessaE (it can go up to 65535 if you want)
03:16 Tiktalik_ bags exist in minecraft
03:16 Tiktalik_ modded, anyway
03:16 est31 and there are auto sorting chests
03:16 est31 and shift-click for fast item movement
03:16 VanessaE Unified Inventory puts a lot of the most needed sorts of stuff togehter
03:17 Tiktalik_ est31: minecraft had an auto sorting computerized storage system
03:17 Tiktalik_ as a mod
03:17 VanessaE (crafting guide, bags, various control buttons, waypoints, ...)
03:17 Tiktalik_ and there are shift clicks and such
03:18 Tiktalik_ the problem is, with so many mods everyone has to fight for the same crafting grid
03:18 Tiktalik_ microcrafting is a big problem
03:18 Hirato and minetest doesn't doesn't seem to have any interest in merging some of the best mods in as official bits and pieces
03:19 VanessaE I'd like to think minetest modders generally work together to avoid crafting conflicts
03:19 est31 well thats mtgame discussion, but i think paramat wants to keep mtgame simple
03:19 Hirato seems silly to me that you have to assemble your own game from all these different mods if you want something that's not super basic
03:19 Tiktalik_ do you guys have a friendly modding community
03:19 VanessaE I think so :)
03:19 * VanessaE <--- one of those modders
03:19 hmmmm nope
03:19 hmmmm we're totally rotten SOBs
03:20 Tiktalik_ then that's better than minecraft
03:20 VanessaE hmmmm: he said modding community, not core dev community ;)
03:20 hmmmm oh sorry, carry on
03:20 Tiktalik_ minecraft has always been elitist pricks
03:20 Tiktalik_ always, I mean
03:20 VanessaE Tiktalik_: also, nearly ALL minetest mods are free, open source
03:20 Tiktalik_ we were helpful enough if you weren't stupid
03:20 hmmmm probably due to the closed nature of minecraft and minecraft mods
03:20 Tiktalik_ and honestly I have to say
03:20 hmmmm minecraft modders hoard their knowledge
03:21 Tiktalik_ nah, not so much any more
03:21 VanessaE our modding language is Lua, which is easy to learn
03:21 Tiktalik_ there are lots of open mods
03:21 VanessaE whereas minecraft, as I'm sure you know, is java
03:21 est31 and minetest has acutally a real modding API
03:21 Hirato how mcuh dedodated wam is needed to server
03:21 Tiktalik_ I'll be back on my pc
03:24 Tiktalik okay, I'm back :)
03:24 Tiktalik alright, so
03:24 Tiktalik i'm gonna do something terrible
03:24 Tiktalik i'm gonna boot up minecraft and show you what I mean
03:24 Tiktalik with the magic of screenshots
03:24 Tiktalik oh!
03:24 Tiktalik incidentally, most people don't bother putting together their own mods anymore
03:24 Tiktalik modpacks kinda won out
03:25 VanessaE modpacks are common in minetest as well
03:25 VanessaE but there are plenty of singular mods
03:25 Tiktalik you would not believe how much the old modders kicked and screamed in regards to modpacks
03:25 Tiktalik well, you would
03:25 VanessaE (for minetest, modpacks are more of a convenience and theming issue, not a necessity per se)
03:25 Tiktalik an ungodly amount
03:26 Tiktalik ok so I'm loading up FTB Horizons: Daybreaker
03:26 Tiktalik pretty standard kitchen sink pack with some unconventional stuff in there
03:26 VanessaE two things MC has over minetest are better MOBs and much better lighting (from what I've seen in videos anyway)
03:27 VanessaE kitchen sink pack?  homedecor ;)
03:27 Tiktalik the mobs kind of suck now :P
03:27 Tiktalik there are baby zombies that took spiders' niche after sprinting became a thing
03:28 VanessaE oh brother
03:28 Tiktalik spiders were almost as fast as the player
03:28 Tiktalik but avoidable if you were really good at jumping
03:28 Tiktalik baby zombies must be heavily caffienated
03:29 VanessaE the main problem with MOBs on minetest is that they can be laggy
03:29 Tiktalik okay, to start with
03:29 Tiktalik I have 356 pages of items here
03:29 VanessaE as the code that runs them runs only in the server process
03:29 VanessaE 356 pages?!  how many items per?
03:29 Tiktalik each page is 8x14
03:30 GunshipPenguin joined #minetest
03:30 Tiktalik (this is counting every item and block)
03:30 * VanessaE checks dreambuilder...
03:30 roboman2444 joined #minetest
03:30 Tiktalik including minor things like color variants
03:30 Tiktalik oh, this has chisel in it
03:30 VanessaE 20 pages, 80 items per.  backstage, there are about 16'500 items.
03:31 Tiktalik okay, so this isn't unique items
03:31 VanessaE nor is the 16'500 :)
03:31 Tiktalik it counts things like microblocks
03:31 VanessaE the 20 * 80 is, however.
03:31 Tiktalik and chisel variants
03:31 Tiktalik with chisel disabled, that brings down the pages to 153
03:32 Tiktalik now, the inventory is  4x8, including hotbar
03:32 VanessaE however, there's stuff like the table saw, which provides 45 different shapes for the item you put in it
03:32 Tiktalik oh yeah? what kinda shapes, like, half blocks, steps, etc?
03:33 VanessaE stairshttp://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanes​sa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/rando​m/Screenshot_2015-10-16_23-33-12.png
03:33 Tiktalik cool
03:33 Tiktalik over in minecraft, we have forge microblocks
03:33 VanessaE (what's not totally obvious among those wedge shapes is how the top is cut.  some are corner-to-corner, some are pyramids)
03:34 Tiktalik you can, in the standard crafting grid
03:34 Tiktalik take
03:34 Tiktalik a block and a saw, and it works for pretty much everything that isn't a tile entity (interactable)
03:34 Tiktalik cut the block in half, make pillars, whatnot, with a system of absurdly overcomplicated recipes
03:34 Tiktalik and put multiple different ones in a single place
03:34 VanessaE heh
03:34 Tiktalik there's also carpenter's blocks
03:34 Tiktalik which, I think is more elegant than the tablesaw
03:35 Tiktalik you get plain blocks, fences, buttons, a safe, daylight sensor, slopes, corners, etc
03:35 Tiktalik and you can just right click them with most any block to skin them as it
03:35 VanessaE well that ^^^ mod I showed has some recipes, some of which are a little nonsensical maybe; you can however place micro blocks (7th item, top row) back into the craft grid to form some of the other shapes (like the "L" on the 4th row, or the "inside corner" 2nd from the end, 2nd row)
03:36 Tiktalik pretty much the same, then :P
03:36 VanessaE (er that was an "outside" corner)
03:37 VanessaE meshes aren't a particularly new thing in minetest (got them last year), but these particular shapes in the saw are just starting to gain traction
03:37 VanessaE (that mod, btw, is "More Blocks" by Calinou)
03:37 Tiktalik um, let's see
03:37 Tiktalik in this pack, I have about...
03:38 Tiktalik I'd like to say 30 unique ores?
03:38 Tiktalik when your inventory is 32 slots big, that's a problem
03:39 VanessaE heh
03:39 VanessaE Dreambuilder has about as many :P
03:39 VanessaE base Minetest game has like 8 maybe
03:39 Tiktalik how big's the dreambuilder inventory?
03:39 VanessaE 8x4
03:39 VanessaE that screenshot was from DB
03:40 Tiktalik aw jeez
03:40 Tiktalik of course, there are also things to consider like monster drops
03:40 Tiktalik the five or so stone variants you can come across undergroudn
03:41 Tiktalik underground*
03:41 Tiktalik the fact that you may want something like ten tools with you at any given time
03:41 VanessaE http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanes​sa/hobbies/minetest/screenshots/rando​m/Screenshot_2015-10-16_23-41-40.png
03:42 VanessaE there's Unified Inventory, showing some of what's available.
03:42 Tiktalik oh hey, it looks like NEI but uglier :P
03:42 VanessaE (hm, I need to change the "full" formspec a bit.  lots of wasted vertical space)
03:42 VanessaE heh
03:43 VanessaE I bet with a little fiddling, I could get 8x12 pages on the right. :)
03:44 VanessaE maybe even 9x12 :)
03:44 Tiktalik the secret is to make it not all a single panel
03:44 Tiktalik how much can you change that GUI there?
03:44 VanessaE pretty much any way I want to
03:45 VanessaE there's some limits
03:45 VanessaE but it's pretty free-form if you also have the graphics skills to make buttons and other imagery
03:46 Tiktalik in a minute I'll have some minecraft screenshots for you
03:46 Tiktalik i lowered the gui scale to small for some even :P
03:46 VanessaE heh
03:46 VanessaE well while GUI scale is adjustable, formspecs in minetest are relatively-sized
03:47 VanessaE usually measured in fractions of an inventory slot
03:47 VanessaE and auto-scaling is enabled by default
03:47 Tiktalik I could design you some prettier buttons for stuff sometime, maybe, if you wanna hit me up
03:47 VanessaE aw, I like those buttons :(
03:48 Tiktalik the resolution doesn't match D:
03:48 Tiktalik uneven resolution and gradients make me cry
03:48 VanessaE wait, you mean the buttons on the right?
03:48 Tiktalik yeah
03:48 VanessaE those are the actual items.
03:48 Tiktalik no, I mean
03:48 Tiktalik the ones below that
03:49 VanessaE the page buttons?
03:49 Tiktalik yeah
03:49 VanessaE well they used to be better-looking, but during the image revamp, I couldn't find better ones
03:49 Tiktalik I can totally match minetest art :p
03:50 Tiktalik https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17744669/progs​creenshots/ftb%20problems/2015-10-16_21.43.42.png ah, here we go. finally.
03:50 Tiktalik so this is just an inventory screenshot
03:50 VanessaE ew.
03:50 Tiktalik ew?
03:50 VanessaE ew.
03:50 Tiktalik what are you ewing about
03:50 VanessaE it's ugly. :)
03:50 Tiktalik the vanilla inventory is pretty gross, I know
03:50 Tiktalik but so is yours
03:50 VanessaE heh yeah
03:51 Hirato this doesn't answer the most important question, is minecraft fun yet? is it even a game yet, or still just a sandbox? :P
03:51 Tiktalik I think it's more a matter of the ugly inventory you're used to
03:51 Tiktalik Hirato: minecraft should have never tried being a game
03:51 Tiktalik it went awfully :P
03:51 Hirato hahahaha
03:51 VanessaE mind, I didn't write all of Unified Inventory, RealBadAngel started it.
03:51 Tiktalik um, anyway
03:51 Tiktalik having all the items like that on a transparent background?
03:51 VanessaE that's what makes it ugly
03:51 Tiktalik why's it ugly
03:51 VanessaE because they are just sorta "floating"
03:52 Tiktalik i think it actually works out well because then you have them there without obscuring your view too much
03:52 Tiktalik so you can see if a green bastard is creeping up on you to blow up everything you love
03:52 VanessaE there are no delimiters between items or between the list and the inventory in the middle
03:52 VanessaE I think minetest can do transparent buttons, and I know it can do transparent formspecs
03:52 VanessaE so it could match this I guess
03:52 Tiktalik and heeeere's the inventory set to small GUI scale
03:52 Tiktalik https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17744669/progs​creenshots/ftb%20problems/2015-10-16_21.44.05.png
03:52 VanessaE omg
03:53 Hirato o_O
03:53 Tiktalik nobody ever uses small
03:53 Tiktalik even in vanilla
03:53 Tiktalik https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17744669/progs​creenshots/ftb%20problems/2015-10-16_21.44.08.png here's another page
03:53 VanessaE that's something minetest can't do
03:53 Hirato on the flip size, at least the text looks nice at that size :M
03:53 Tiktalik Hirato: hey, at least our font looks nice at some size!
03:53 VanessaE or not "properly", anyway.  the gui formspec scaling is client-side, but the content is server-side.
03:53 Hirato we just use freetype
03:53 Hirato lolololo
03:54 Tiktalik i kid, i kid
03:54 Tiktalik no i don't your font looks awful
03:54 VanessaE Minetest uses standard open source fonts.  DejaVu Sans I think.
03:54 Tiktalik yeah it's a really inconsistent theme
03:54 Tiktalik https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17744669/progs​creenshots/ftb%20problems/2015-10-16_21.44.12.png more inventory
03:54 VanessaE any TTF font can be used though
03:54 Hirato does minetest even bundle fonts?
03:54 VanessaE Hirato: yes
03:55 Hirato that's new
03:55 VanessaE nope.
03:55 VanessaE it's not new
03:55 Hirato and it looks like it's using liberationmono.ttf on my end
03:55 VanessaE ah, right
03:55 VanessaE forgot, I changed it on my client :)
03:56 Hirato hahaha
03:56 VanessaE minetest has bundled some font files though, and some bitmap fonts also, that no one uses anymore :P
03:56 Hirato haha
03:57 VanessaE Tiktalik: in any case, like they say there's no accounting for taste :)
03:57 VanessaE minetesters are used to one thing, minecrafters another :)
03:57 Tiktalik true
03:57 Tiktalik it's both terrible, which I will freely admit
03:57 VanessaE now mind you,
03:57 VanessaE the GUI is themeable to a degree
03:58 Tiktalik I come up with nice gui themes sometimes. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u​/17744669/ProgScreenshots/BPlus.png
03:58 Tiktalik the colors are all mine :P
03:59 Hirato nice tracker you got there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCl9xYSOVtM
03:59 Tiktalik sorry for the dumb question, but will dreambuilder work with minetest 0.4.13?
03:59 Tiktalik Hirato: it's renoise, renoise is so so worth the $75
03:59 Tiktalik vst plugin support, envelope automation, a REALLY nice instrument system
03:59 Tiktalik i love it so much
03:59 VanessaE this, for example, is in the BFD sub-game:  https://imgrush.com/8_mpIRQmBfui.png
03:59 Tiktalik but I've never composed anything good.
04:00 Tiktalik oh, ow
04:00 VanessaE and yes, DB works with 0.4.13.
04:01 Tiktalik Hirato: want to hear the song in that picture?
04:01 Hirato sure
04:01 VanessaE here's another, in the multicraft android port:  https://static-s.aa-cdn.net/img/gp/206000​04054025/b0CMGSEd2SuIUSBKZAfBCr8KukJKJylE​5ESJ459K5RLQnc7vQ14eLGPjmkn9_mLAmQ=h900
04:01 Tiktalik https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1774​4669/My%20Music/Auditory%20Landfill.mp3
04:01 Tiktalik descriptive title
04:01 Hirato lol
04:01 VanessaE (both of those are doable with a mod against plain minetest, also)
04:02 Tiktalik jeez, now that's just ripping off minecraft >:(
04:02 VanessaE heh
04:02 VanessaE well it DOES look about the same, to be sure
04:02 VanessaE but for it to be a rip-off, it would need to be using minecraft imagery :)
04:02 Hirato that really is a very descriptive title
04:02 Tiktalik clone, then
04:02 * Hirato listens to some more purple motion
04:03 VanessaE so really, it's just a matter of taste what the UI looks like
04:05 Tiktalik Hirato: auditory landfill won 18th out of 19th in a metal competition, I'll have you know
04:05 Hirato lol
04:06 Tiktalik Hirato: this is the one below me. http://battleofthebits.org/arena/Entry​/solving+it+on+different+levels/19325/
04:06 VanessaE damn it, I can't find it now but there's an inventory theme mod that gives it a "leather wallet" look..
04:07 Hirato is there meant to be a player on the site?
04:07 Tiktalik yeah, it's flash though
04:07 Tiktalik anyway
04:07 Tiktalik that wasn't even metal in the slightest
04:07 Tiktalik just... casio jazz
04:07 Hirato I don't have flash installed :P
04:07 Tiktalik that's for the best, really
04:07 Hirato piece of crap freezes firefox hard
04:08 Hirato and firefox is slow enough as is without any plugins
04:08 Tiktalik VanessaE: how install DB
04:08 Hirato extract into the 'game' folder
04:08 VanessaE Tiktalik: download, unzip, rename the folder to "dreambuilder_game" if necessary, put it in minetest's games folder.
04:08 VanessaE ( ~/.minetest/games  on linux.)
04:09 VanessaE then launch minetest, click the "house" icon, and create a new world.
04:09 Tiktalik that /is/ an eerie amount more friendly than minecraft community people.
04:09 VanessaE and you don't need to install mods in minetest to play on a server that uses mods.
04:09 VanessaE (or if it runs a custom game)
04:09 Tiktalik neat
04:09 VanessaE the server will send the necessary assets to you on connect.
04:09 Tiktalik anyway, I'm installing it now
04:10 Hirato I set up a pkgbuild to build minetest and a bunch of mods, minetest really seems to have it that the mods are installed in /usr/share/minetest/mods/ or whatever it ended up
04:10 Hirato **hate
04:10 Hirato at least the UI does, it doesn't list them, but the game detects and uses them just fine
04:10 VanessaE Hirato: you should never install stuff to a root-writable dir.  always use your homedir.  ~/.minetest/mods, ~/.minetest/games, etc.
04:10 Hirato why not? I build it as a bunch of little packages?
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04:11 Tiktalik hmm
04:11 Tiktalik what's the best mapgen to use
04:11 VanessaE use mapgen v6
04:11 VanessaE mgv7 works but has a couple of bugs that DB's "moretrees" mod exposes.
04:11 Hirato oh, so v7 isn't just a pure stone world anymore? yay
04:11 Tiktalik loading... slowly.
04:12 VanessaE Hirato: nope.
04:12 VanessaE Tiktalik: it takes a long time to load for me also.  about 30 seconds or so.
04:12 VanessaE after the first load, it'll be faster in the future
04:12 Hirato Tiktalik: there's some stuff you can turn off in minetest.conf to speed it up
04:12 Tiktalik much faster than minecraft
04:12 VanessaE (all the media will be cached then)
04:13 Tiktalik okay VanessaE, so I'm gonna tell you about this minecraft thing that may blow your mind
04:13 Hirato preload_item_visuals = false <-- make sure that's false, that'll speed it up a lot
04:13 VanessaE er, ok? :)
04:13 Tiktalik it's this mod called Waila
04:13 Tiktalik short for What Am I Looking At
04:13 VanessaE Hirato: that defaults to false in current minetest
04:13 Tiktalik hirato it takes like three minutes to load minecraft
04:13 Tiktalik this is blazing fast
04:13 Hirato VanessaE: I haven't played since 2013 :M
04:14 VanessaE Tiktalik: "what am I looking at" ?
04:14 VanessaE oh
04:14 VanessaE press F5. :)
04:14 Tiktalik https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/164771/MC Modding/Waila/Screens/2013-06-12_23.44.15.png WAILA does it with some elegance, though
04:14 VanessaE point at a node and it tells you what it is and the texture you're pointing at, also
04:14 Tiktalik it'll even show you things like how full a tank is
04:15 VanessaE the F5 display isn't quite as informative as that, though
04:15 Hirato do you even %20 bro
04:15 Tiktalik hey, I want to lodge a complaint!
04:15 Tiktalik i spawned in the middle of a... round thing
04:16 VanessaE haha
04:16 Hirato break the round thing!
04:16 VanessaE blame the engine :D
04:16 VanessaE dreambuilder doesn't make any attempt to find a good spawn pos, it relies on the engine :)
04:17 Tiktalik hah, that's not actually a really sincere complaint
04:17 Tiktalik i miss weird worldgen from minecraft
04:17 VanessaE mapgen v7 would be "weird" perhaps :)
04:17 VanessaE try it sometime, just be sure to delete or disable the "moretrees" mod
04:17 VanessaE (it exposed a lighting bug)
04:17 Hirato oh, is that the thing that makes most of the world this weird black?
04:17 VanessaE (it produces some really epic terrain)
04:18 VanessaE Hirato: well it DOES cause big, black shadows in mgv7, yeah
04:18 VanessaE hmmmm: ^^^
04:18 hmmmm :/
04:19 Hirato https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u​/23891252/screenshot_802418484.jpg <-- like these
04:19 Tiktalik is there some reason axes and rubber trees don't get along
04:19 Hirato ?
04:19 VanessaE Hirato: that's similar, yes.  but not the same bug I don't think.
04:19 Hirato heh
04:20 Hirato huh...
04:20 Tiktalik oh, nvm
04:20 Tiktalik axes just aren't a very big speed boost
04:20 VanessaE try a different material
04:20 VanessaE like a mese axe
04:20 Hirato I just downloaded the dreambuilder_game master and it's only a few megabytes, that's a LOT smaller than I remember
04:20 VanessaE Hirato: you can't use the github download link.
04:20 Hirato :o
04:20 VanessaE you have to either clone it --recursive, or use my .zip link.
04:20 Hirato oh... sub modules?
04:20 VanessaE yep.
04:20 VanessaE stupid github
04:20 Hirato kjgfnjkdfgnkjhbl dsgs d
04:21 Hirato so... howcome the mod's name isn't a really bad pun like "Minessa"? :P
04:21 VanessaE because...I wanted something meaningful? :P
04:21 Hirato hahaha
04:21 Tiktalik what's kalite
04:22 Hirato suppose I'll just clone it Directly in ~/.minetest/games
04:22 VanessaE an imaginary ore NekoGloop came up with
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04:22 VanessaE Hirato: that should work
04:22 VanessaE I don't remember what kalite does though
04:22 VanessaE I think it's edible
04:22 Hirato it's diet potassium
04:23 Hirato maybe
04:24 Tiktalik um, it's night
04:24 Tiktalik am I going to die horribly now
04:24 Hirato only if there are monster mods
04:24 Hirato I kind of miss the old 3.x monsters
04:24 Tiktalik ow
04:25 Tiktalik i'm going to do my best apparently
04:25 Tiktalik because i just walked off a cliff
04:25 TheBonsai joined #minetest
04:25 Hirato I like tweaking the physics so I can jump about 2 blocks high  and run slightly faster than defaults
04:25 Hirato problem is, you can't tweak the constants for fall damage the same way
04:26 Tiktalik complaint:
04:26 Tiktalik night is too dark
04:26 Hirato it's not that dark provided you're above ground
04:27 Hirato RealBadAngel: have you done much more with the shaders since adding normal/parallax maps?
04:28 VanessaE Tiktalik: build some lighting then :D
04:30 * Tiktalik chops a tree in the dark
04:30 Tiktalik acacia! my nemesis from minecraft >:C
04:30 Tiktalik minetest acacia looks way better, actually
04:31 VanessaE heh
04:32 VanessaE why's it your nemesis? :)
04:32 Tiktalik i'll be blunt
04:32 Tiktalik it looks like complete shit
04:32 VanessaE heh
04:32 Hirato real acacia is pretty poisonous iirc
04:32 VanessaE well at least it looks better in minetest :)
04:33 Tiktalik http://i.ytimg.com/vi/WD7K​Uwo7m98/maxresdefault.jpg
04:33 Tiktalik from left to right:
04:33 Tiktalik the classic oak, then spruce (added in beta 1.2?), birch (same), then jungle (I forget), then acacia and dark oak (1.8?)
04:33 VanessaE huh
04:33 Tiktalik they kind of forgot about contrast and color at that point
04:34 VanessaE well Dreambuilder has about 15 kinds of trees; the default game has 4
04:34 Hirato when did the default game get trees 3 and 4?
04:34 Hirato I remember regular trees and the jungle trees
04:34 VanessaE some time in the past few months.
04:34 Hirato hah
04:34 Tiktalik VanessaE: http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Granite new vanilla stone variants
04:34 Hirato so they actually do care about adding some content occasionally :D
04:35 Tiktalik http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Diorite
04:35 Tiktalik http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Andesite
04:35 Tiktalik they're very ugly
04:35 Tiktalik as is most everything added post-release
04:35 VanessaE it has regular trees (some sort of apple/walnut hybrid? :P ), "jungle" trees (something like a strangler fig wrapped around a darker center), pine, and acacia.
04:35 Hirato Dio-rite? is there a Jojo-rite to fight it?
04:35 Hirato oh right, forgot about the apple trees
04:35 Tiktalik now that'd be a quality mod
04:35 Tiktalik a mod that lets you craft jojorite that removes all the diorite from the world
04:36 Hirato you craft the jojorite with hamonite
04:37 * Hirato ponders starting over with a clean minetest.conf
04:38 VanessaE Tiktalik: also, don't forget to check out HDX (texture pack).  you might like it.
04:39 Tiktalik does minetest have any multiblock structures
04:39 VanessaE multi-block?
04:39 VanessaE you mean like items that span more than one node/
04:39 Tiktalik like, machines and things you build that take multiple nodes, yeah
04:39 VanessaE oh sure
04:39 Tiktalik like... make a big ol' smeltery out of multiple nodes
04:40 VanessaE Technic mod (similar to redpower2 I'm told), mesecons (like redstone), pipeworks
04:40 Tiktalik also the inventory should really be more clientsided lol
04:40 Tiktalik visually anyway
04:41 VanessaE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioG8OysZyvk
04:41 VanessaE here's an example
04:41 Tiktalik oh, it's buildcraft!
04:41 Tiktalik but not.
04:41 VanessaE I guess so
04:41 Tiktalik but no that's not really what I mean
04:42 VanessaE never having played MC (let alone any mods thereon), I don't know what's the best comparison :)
04:42 Tiktalik http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/tinke​rs-construct/images/7/7f/Smeltery_complet​e.png/revision/latest?cb=20130730020423 this is the smeltery from tinkers' construct
04:42 Tiktalik it's a single discrete device
04:42 Tiktalik with a number of arbitrary arrangements
04:42 VanessaE such things are possible in minetest, but I don't know if anyone's made such a thing.
04:43 Tiktalik it requires 1 smeltery controller, 1 lava tank, 1 drain, 1 faucet, and some seared bricks
04:43 Tiktalik it can be made at any height you want, with an internal diameter anywhere from 1 block to 12 blocks wide
04:44 VanessaE there are lots of mods where an item takes more than one node but is treated as one
04:44 Tiktalik the internal capacity affects how many ores you can put in it at a time (1 ore per empty block)
04:44 VanessaE doors are the most obvious
04:44 VanessaE beds
04:44 Tiktalik yeah, but these are all placed separately and work together
04:44 VanessaE some homedecor stuff
04:44 Tiktalik anyway, it melts the ore into liquid metal
04:45 VanessaE technic/pipeworks/mesecons nodes are designed to work together also
04:45 Tiktalik 1 ore = 2 ingots of metal
04:45 Tiktalik the liquid is castable as ingots or tool parts, for the mod's tool system
04:45 Tiktalik or you can put it in whatever kind of liquid storage tank you w ant
04:45 Tiktalik want*
04:45 Tiktalik since thankfully, there IS at least a common fluid API
04:46 VanessaE pipeworks' handling of liquids kinda sucks
04:47 VanessaE (the tubes therein, what you saw in the video, work with anything, but the metal pipes only work with watee)
04:47 VanessaE (water*)
04:48 Tiktalik AAAH
04:48 Tiktalik this
04:48 VanessaE Z?
04:48 VanessaE ?
04:48 Tiktalik this evil tree thing
04:48 Tiktalik attacked me underground
04:48 VanessaE HAH!
04:48 VanessaE yep, that's a tree monster :D
04:48 VanessaE did I forget to mention Dreambuilder has the carbone_mobs mod? :D
04:49 * Tiktalik is giggling now
04:49 Tiktalik holy shit, that's literally the first time a blocky game has scared me in ages
04:49 VanessaE sounds like I did something right :"D
04:49 VanessaE what do you think of all the foliage?
04:49 Tiktalik i was out all night pretty much unmolested, so I didn't expect any hostile mobs
04:50 VanessaE yeah, for reasons I am not clear on, Calinou set them to only spawn underground.
04:50 VanessaE the peaceful ones spawn above-ground though (just sheep and rats at present)
04:51 Tiktalik minetest could really use a minimap, lol
04:51 VanessaE F9
04:51 Tiktalik oh
04:51 Tiktalik well
04:51 Tiktalik does it record where you've been?
04:51 VanessaE nope
04:51 VanessaE not precisely
04:51 VanessaE it just displays the map data that's loaded
04:51 VanessaE interesting feature idea though.
04:52 VanessaE propose it on the minetest github pagee
04:52 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/new
04:52 Tiktalik yeah, minecraft has this map mod that maps everywhere you've been on the surface
04:53 VanessaE also, shift-F9 switches map styles (the other style being square, with a rotating arrow)
04:54 VanessaE and multiple presses of F9 (without shift) change the minimap scale and switch between surface mode and radar mode
04:54 Tiktalik waypoints?
05:01 Tiktalik hmm
05:01 Tiktalik VanessaE, are there any magic mods for Minetest?
05:01 VanessaE magic?
05:01 Tiktalik shit, I guess not
05:02 VanessaE not really sure, "magic" covers a lot of ground
05:02 Tiktalik eh, y'know
05:02 VanessaE waypoints, btw, are like markers of map locations
05:02 Tiktalik crafting magic stuff, wands and things
05:02 Hirato probably means stuff like CASTING MAGIC MISSILE AT THE DARKNESS!
05:02 VanessaE you walk somewhere, set a waypoint, then later on you can see what direction it's in and how far
05:02 Tiktalik other nonscientific nonsense
05:02 VanessaE oh I'm sure there are mods like that
05:02 VanessaE I'm not sure though
05:03 Hirato or liek starbound's MAGICAL SPACE STAFF OF SCIENCE MAGIC
05:03 Tiktalik nop
05:03 Tiktalik starbound does have a good inventory system though
05:03 Tiktalik everyone should rip it off
05:03 Hirato please no
05:03 Tiktalik what, tabs for resources, tools/usable items, and furniture isn't awesome?
05:04 Tiktalik VanessaE: anyway, thaumcraft is a pretty neat minecraft mod, you actually have to research stuff before you can craft it
05:04 Hirato that came much later
05:04 Hirato it's more than there are millions of different block types that vary only slightly in colour
05:04 Hirato and putting these in containers or otherwise sorting them is incredibly cumbersome
05:04 Tiktalik hey I said inventory system
05:04 Tiktalik not amount of block types
05:05 Hirato you can't discuss the inventory system without inventory management, and Starbound's is very cumbersome :p
05:06 Tiktalik do my eyes decieve me, or does minetest use 18x18 textures
05:07 Hirato I'd have expected 16x16
05:07 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Refactor Thread class to improve readability and portability 765a834 http://git.io/vC5o8 (2015-10-16T23:43:29-04:00)
05:07 VanessaE Tiktalik: 16x16
05:07 VanessaE but HDX goes up to 512px if you have the hardware fortitude for it
05:07 Tiktalik my eyes decieve me >:(
05:07 Hirato I'd trying for 512px.. still cloning :D
05:07 Hirato probably should've done a --depth 1 too
05:08 Tiktalik ...
05:08 Tiktalik wow
05:08 Tiktalik this chest background is funky
05:08 VanessaE heh
05:08 Tiktalik hey Hirato, suggestion
05:08 Tiktalik hold shift while crafting to craft as much as you can
05:09 Tiktalik unless there's some function to do that I missed, it'd be a whole lot nicer than having to click a bunch to get lotsa wood
05:09 Hirato ?
05:09 Hirato right click, just like mc
05:09 Hirato or am i thinking of terraria...
05:09 VanessaE middle-click crafts 10, btw.
05:10 VanessaE Tiktalik: file that shift-click idea on the issue report page I linked to. that would also be useful.
05:10 VanessaE we have list-rings already
05:11 Hirato oh right, right click halves stack size...
05:11 VanessaE (shift-click item in inventory --> whole stack goes to the chest)
05:11 Tiktalik is alatro good
05:11 VanessaE list-rings work for some things; just depends on mod support
05:11 VanessaE I don't remember the qualities of those weird ores ;)
05:12 Tiktalik WOW, YOUR MOBS ARE REALLY BAD
05:12 Tiktalik capslock
05:12 VanessaE bad as in evil?
05:12 VanessaE or as in they suck? :)
05:12 Tiktalik both
05:12 Hirato huehuehue
05:12 VanessaE heh
05:13 VanessaE well much of that is minetest's bad handling of MOBs in general (they're entirely server-side, so they can be laggy)
05:13 VanessaE the rest is a matter of writing good code in the mod that supplies them
05:13 Tiktalik they should be knocked back by attacks and unable to attack through blocks :P
05:13 Tiktalik also
05:13 Tiktalik http://ftbwiki.org/images/​3/37/T4-thaumonomicon.png
05:13 Tiktalik screenshot of the thauminomicon
05:13 Tiktalik thaumcraft's in-game reference guide
05:14 VanessaE MT doesn't have a knock-back feature for MOBs as far as I am aware.
05:14 Tiktalik sheesh, yeah it probably should
05:14 Tiktalik getting cornered is ridiculously painful
05:14 Tiktalik i must bed,though
05:15 VanessaE heh
05:15 VanessaE ok
05:15 VanessaE yell at Calinou also
05:15 VanessaE he coded the MOBs mod I'm using
05:16 Tiktalik_ why do you capitalize mob?
05:16 VanessaE because that's actually the proper case.
05:16 Tiktalik_ oh.
05:16 VanessaE Movable Object Block
05:16 VanessaE coined some time in the late 70's or early 80's.
05:17 VanessaE back in ancient times, when we only had sprites.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wik​i/Sprite_(computer_graphics)
05:17 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Fix missing include on AIX 6ba9d65 http://git.io/vC5Kv (2015-10-17T01:16:17-04:00)
05:17 Qwertie How do I get minetestserver to run in the background?
05:17 VanessaE Qwertie: nohup minetestserver --other --options --here &
05:18 Tiktalik_ I thought it was Mobile OBject, though
05:18 Qwertie Thanks VanessaE
05:18 Tiktalik_ of course, not like minetest can't use its own term
05:18 VanessaE that's not minetest's term I'm using. rather, Commodore's.
05:19 Tiktalik_ anyway I probably have a billion little quality of life improvements to suggest
05:19 VanessaE please do suggest them
05:19 VanessaE either against the engine or against the various mods that supply related features
05:20 Tiktalik_ I may also make my own magic mod, because it's a shame if you can't cast magic missile to attack the darkness
05:20 VanessaE heh
05:20 VanessaE the effect of a successful attack?   /time 8000  :D
05:20 Tiktalik_ incidentally, thaumcraft is probably the minecraft mod with the highest production values
05:21 Tiktalik_ the sprites are amazing
05:21 Tiktalik_ and it's been completely rewritten four times
05:23 Qwertie VanessaE, Should I be getting "nohup: ignoring input and appending output to ‘nohup.out’"?
05:23 VanessaE yes
05:23 Tiktalik_ it's good because it's ancient and the author wasn't afraid to mix it up
05:23 VanessaE now you can close the terminal (with ctrl-D)
05:23 Tiktalik_ hmm
05:23 VanessaE Qwertie: bear in mind that minetest does not auto-restart if it crashes/exits
05:24 Tiktalik_ vanessaE, can items have more properties than damage?
05:24 VanessaE you need to run it inside a keepalive script like this one:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/vanessa/hobbies/​minetest/Server-scripts/start-minetestserver.sh
05:24 Tiktalik_ like
05:24 Tiktalik_ could I make a, um
05:24 Tiktalik_ single item that can be made multiple ways
05:24 VanessaE Tiktalik_: er...
05:24 Tiktalik_ and have different effects depending on what was used to make it
05:25 VanessaE well you can fake it
05:25 Tiktalik_ like, with statistics dependant on parts
05:25 Tiktalik_ or would I need a separate item for each combination
05:26 VanessaE you could define several versions of a node (a block/plant/etc) or entity (MOB/dropped item/etc) where each has some quality changed I guess
05:26 VanessaE but some things can be changed on demand
05:26 Tiktalik_ okay, hmm
05:26 VanessaE https://github.com/minetest/mine​test/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt
05:27 Tiktalik_ let me explain better
05:28 VanessaE damage is described here, https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1249
05:28 VanessaE other object properties here; https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2473
05:28 Tiktalik_ okay, so let's say I have a multitool item
05:28 Tiktalik_ is there a way I could, say... hmm
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05:29 Tiktalik_ ok. let's say it does a certain thing, like
05:29 Tiktalik_ you click with it and it outputs a beam
05:30 Tiktalik_ could you make it do different things if it had like, certain items in an internal inventory or something
05:32 Tiktalik_ and could the texture be altered too?
05:33 Tiktalik_ vanessaE: is that possible, or is the api not flexible enough
05:33 VanessaE the texture can be altered on demand, yes
05:33 VanessaE and mobs can have an "internal" inventory too I think
05:33 Tiktalik_ I mean the first thing, though
05:34 Tiktalik_ I don't mean a mob
05:34 Tiktalik_ I mean an item
05:34 VanessaE outputs a beam?
05:34 VanessaE items too
05:34 Tiktalik_ second, sorry
05:34 VanessaE items == MOBs as far as minetest is concerned.
05:34 Tiktalik_ does something based on what's inside of it
05:34 VanessaE I think that's possible, yes
05:34 Tiktalik_ what kind of stuff can you store in the player
05:34 VanessaE I don't remember :)
05:35 VanessaE it's not a feature I've worked with
05:35 Tiktalik_ can you add variables to their save?
05:35 Tiktalik_ oh, ok
05:35 VanessaE metadata maybe?
05:35 VanessaE (not sure if that works for entities or not)
05:35 VanessaE (nodes do, though)
05:35 Tiktalik_ hmm, ok
05:37 Tiktalik_ well, as long as I can give an item more properties than damage I'm probably good
05:38 Tiktalik_ I'll try it later sometime
05:38 Tiktalik_ and if I find the API lacking I'll whine
05:39 VanessaE well they can have an inventory anyway
05:39 Telesight joined #minetest
05:40 Tiktalik_ worst case I come up with some different design ideas
05:42 Tiktalik_ see, I was thinking there's this mc mod called ars magica where you can put together spells with differing effects by putting together various parts, kind of like a simple form of in-game scripting
05:43 Tiktalik_ and my wondering was if something slightly similar bit on a much lesser level was possible
05:43 Tiktalik_ but*
05:44 paramat VanessaE 'spawn l tree' includes 'updateLighting' so was not meant to be used rapidly multiple times during mapgen, obviously there only needs to be a single lighting update after a chunk's worth of l-trees have generated. the unnecessary multiple lighting updates cause shadows and makes moretrees slow
05:45 paramat 'default grow tree' has the same problem
05:45 Tiktalik_ paramat, would you happen to know if something like I described is theoretically possible?
05:46 paramat it's not really a bug more a risky mod behaviour, however new code is needed yes
05:46 Hirato the sooner we can realtime lighting, the better
05:46 VanessaE paramat: actually it WAS meant to be used rapidly at mapgen time
05:47 paramat i'm no good with item stuff, i'm a mapgen guy
05:47 Tiktalik_ kk
05:47 Tiktalik_ actually, better question to start with
05:47 paramat VanessaE okay well it is coded wrong then
05:47 VanessaE paramat: yep, seems so
05:47 Tiktalik_ can you make a pickaxe that mines say, 3x3?
05:48 VanessaE Tiktalik_: yes.
05:48 VanessaE technic mining laser mk3 does that
05:48 Tiktalik_ okay, then that's enough for a reasonable start
05:49 paramat a version of 'spawn l tree' without a lighting update is needed, that then perhaps inserts the tree into the LVM
05:49 Tiktalik_ I think I'll dig further into what kind of stuff minetest has for mods before I really start
05:49 Tiktalik_ making my own
05:53 VanessaE paramat: ehm..
05:54 VanessaE paramat: insert the tree into a LVM?  how does that help mods that don't use LVMs? :)
05:54 Tiktalik_ maybe I'll make a mod that adds guns
05:54 Tiktalik_ everyone needs a tasteful flintlock pistol
05:54 paramat sure, well you could use the LVM as the way to add the trees. however it could be done another way
05:55 VanessaE paramat: more to the point though, if it works for mgv6, shouldn't the same method of loading the extra mapblocks work for mgv7?
05:55 paramat exactly it's mysterious
05:55 paramat can't see how mgv7 would cause more shadows
05:55 VanessaE I mean, cache all the blocks that should be loaded, and all the lighting updates, then sort+uniq and execute them after say 1 second or something
05:56 VanessaE s/them/the lighting updates/
05:56 paramat yeah
05:56 VanessaE thing is:"
05:56 VanessaE moretrees goes through biome_lib,
05:56 VanessaE which means that by default, it doesn't generate trees at mapgen time, strictly speaking.
05:56 VanessaE it adds them a few seconds after the mapblock has been generated.
05:57 VanessaE ("deferred generation"; same is true for all other items that get added to the map via that mod, regardless of mapgen type)
05:58 paramat the very tall trees won't fit in the LVM, perhaps an api to update lighting over a chosen large volume a few seconds after mapgen
05:58 VanessaE that is to say, they're added during an on_globalstep(), not during register_on_generated()
05:59 paramat yeah
05:59 VanessaE so what MIGHT be happening is when a tree is added, the mapgen just doesn't bother to pre-generate the space above it
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06:00 VanessaE it only seems to happen to trees that are far enough away that those upper blocks haven't had time to generate yet; seems like if it pops up close enough to the player and there's no shadow
06:00 VanessaE -and
06:03 paramat that should only affect trees that pass y = 47 though, odd
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06:04 VanessaE yeah
06:05 VanessaE I'm pretty sure a palm tree on the beach doesn't go that high :)
06:05 VanessaE (more like 15m or something)
06:07 swift110-phone Hey guys
06:07 paramat so, moretrees is complex and has a risky, slow method, luckily it's not too bad in mgv6, mgv7 is somehow more sensitive and is complaining
06:08 VanessaE well
06:08 VanessaE to be fair
06:08 VanessaE it's not any more risky than set_node()
06:09 VanessaE it's just calling spawn_tree() a bunch of times, picking from a set of about 15 different tree models/defs
06:09 VanessaE but once it makes that call, it does nothing else about the tree; biome_lib moves on to the next populating step
06:10 maximinus Can anyone help with a (simple?) problem. I'm trying to learn how to write mods, and yet the simplest possible mod in the tutorial is not working. The mod appears in the list of mods when I run the game, yet it seems that init.lua is not being run. There are no error messages in the log.
06:12 VanessaE did you configure your world and enable it?
06:15 maximinus was that to me?
06:18 maximinus VanessaE: No I hadn't... thanks. It seems that simple step is not in the tutorial!
06:19 VanessaE !next
06:19 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
06:27 swift110-phone Hmm
06:27 swift110-phone Do trees regrow
06:28 VanessaE no
06:28 VanessaE saplings do, though
06:29 swift110-phone So if i cut down a tree saplings will sprout in its place?
06:29 swift110-phone Or do u have to find saplings
06:32 VanessaE cut leaves to get saplings.
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06:49 swift110-phone Hmm
06:51 Qwertie How do you fly in minetest? I have the perms
06:53 nrzkt f
06:54 Qwertie And to disable it?
06:54 nrzkt f
06:54 Qwertie Its stuck on for me
06:55 Qwertie Ah got it. The key was k
06:55 nrzkt oh sorry :)
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08:47 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest_game: Default/trees: Add requirement of light level 13 for sapling growth ef8b7e2 http://git.io/vC5NT (2015-10-17T09:41:17+01:00)
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09:05 Xeprione hello
09:07 VanessaE hi.
09:08 Xeprione oh hey VanessaE. wanna hear a joke?
09:09 Xeprione Two hackers are talking on the phone. One of them sais to the other: "Hey, look at your bank account.", so the other looks at it and sais "So, what about it?". "Now look again"
09:21 crazyR_ **puzzled**
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09:54 WSDguy2014 Hello Guys, i have bad news
09:55 WSDguy2014 previously, im playing minetest on VoidPixel server, i got banned from my IP, forever :(
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09:55 WSDguy2014 Hello Darcidride, you from VoidPixel Server?
09:55 VanessaE why'd you get banned?
09:56 WSDguy2014 in VoidPixel server, because i got banned from my IP, forever. Player "Clouds" is Owner of VoidPixel server
09:57 Darcidride Hi, no Darcidride=MinetestForFun
09:58 Xack WSDguy2014: there's nothing we ca do here
09:58 Xack *can
09:58 Darcidride A player still my name ?
09:58 Darcidride A player stole my name ?*
09:58 WSDguy2014 join VoidPixel server (required passowrd), if player Cloud is online, say "Why you banned player "WSDguy2014"? Please, unban player "WSDguy2014"".   i love this Voidpixel server
09:59 Xack uh
09:59 Xack ask them on the forums
09:59 Xack or wherever you found the server
09:59 WSDguy2014 at public server
09:59 Xack really, depending on the nature of "cloud" it might just get more people banned
09:59 Xack WSDguy2014: google the name, find forum post
10:00 Calinou use site:forum.minetest.net
10:00 WSDguy2014 find server "VoidPixel"
10:00 Xack yes, thanks Calinou :)
10:00 Xack and hi
10:00 Calinou else you may be more likely to find where Rainbow Dash lives rather than the server admin
10:00 Calinou hi
10:00 Xack heh
10:00 WSDguy2014 i cannot register in minetest forum
10:00 Xack WSDguy2014: why not?
10:00 Xack also just google it
10:00 Xack "voidpixel" site:forum.minetest.net, as calinou suggested
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10:04 Calinou DuckDuckGo it ;)
10:05 WSDguy2014 Calinou, are you joined server "VoidPixel"?
10:06 Qwertie Is there any way to get --logfile on minetestserver to start at the end of the existing logfile?
10:07 WSDguy2014 Qwertie, to unban my player "WSDguy2014"?
10:07 Qwertie What?
10:09 WSDguy2014 Idk, its unbaning my player nickname "WSDguy2014" on IP?
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10:20 WSDguy2014 ok, bye guys, it won't unbanning me on voidpixel server :''(
10:20 Calinou no, I haven't
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12:01 Ingar mmmm mining sounds like knocking on a door
12:05 Krock AoE II has good sounds.. sadly proprietary.
12:06 Ingar I could try to make a footsteps sound set
12:08 Ingar I didn't toy around with minetets before though :)
12:08 Krock neightbours might wonder why someone is pounding on the floor
12:12 Ingar I'd have to wait till tonight anyway
12:13 Ingar too much background noise
12:13 Krock Trolling at night is evil
12:16 Ingar audio recording implies a bit of trolling and a bunch of weird shit
12:18 Ingar I have a bunch of sounds here http://ingar.satgnu.net/files/gtkradiant/ but nothing rly suitable ;)
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12:56 Ingar how do I activate mods ?
12:57 Puka_ configure at main screen, then enable
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12:58 Ingar oh the defaults are already loaded?
12:58 Puka_ yes
12:58 Ingar <_<
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13:17 Calinou Krock, take sounds from 0 A.D.?
13:17 Calinou also, hi Ingar
13:17 exio4 Calinou: ping! do you know other sites like OGA?
13:17 Ingar hello Calinou :)
13:17 Ingar Calinou: I have a tascam sound recorder
13:17 Krock Calinou, I haven't played it yet but it also seems to contain sounds we could use :)
13:17 Calinou exio4, no, not really
13:18 Calinou it's pretty much the only site with ehm... open game art
13:18 Calinou there's BlendSwap too but less targeted at games
13:18 Calinou http://blendswap.com/
13:18 Calinou mostly 3D models/textures
13:18 Calinou also for textures: Nobiax, Yves Allaire, PhilipK make libre textures
13:18 exio4 .. and my little game happens to be 2D :P
13:18 Calinou (PhilipK worked on Natural Selection 2 btw)
13:18 Calinou his texture sets can be found in that game
13:19 Calinou sadly, Rygel's textures don't appear to have a proper license attached :(
13:19 Calinou (the world textures you can find in Quake Epsilon; very good quality)
13:22 Calinou exio4, http://www.blendswap.com/blends/view/62439 best model ever
13:22 exio4 btw, what I needed was a german swearing, I want to make it obvious that you are a nazi soldier without saying it directly in the game
13:25 Calinou exio4, http://users.kymp.net/feuer/etcomic/045.jpg
13:25 exio4 it's a top-down shooter, any gameplay tips?
13:25 Calinou make him say that: "Hello, Axis helpdesk employee here."
13:26 exio4 10 minutes remaining for that comic
13:26 exio4 using 2g rn
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13:50 FreeFull Is there a jungle biome if I generate a world with v7?
13:50 FreeFull I can only find icy and grassy biomes
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14:27 paramat FreeFull there is rainforest in mgv7 (assuming 0.4.13) you may have to search for a few 1000 nodes
14:27 paramat in 0.4.13 stable biomes are big, i recently made them a little smaller
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14:30 paramat there are 10 biomes https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=188275#p188275
14:32 Ingar is biome terrain generation linked to the climate  ?
14:33 paramat yeah determined by heat and humidity noises
14:34 Ingar I kinda miss how the old mc generator could do stuff like sand mountains and all that
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14:40 paramat old as in MT v0.3?
14:40 Ingar donno, I didn't play old MT only old MC
14:41 Ingar mm I did test one of the early mt releases
14:41 Ingar but only briefly
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14:42 FreeFull paramat: Thanks
14:43 luizrpgluiz It would be great if the modders community joins minetest developer community and reviewing the development in the main language of the game
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14:45 paramat mgv5 is (roughly) the old mapgen used in MTv0.3
14:45 Ingar I need to finish digging my hole on my current map first :p
14:51 FreeFull I need a jungle because that's the only legit way to get cotton
14:52 FreeFull Although I'm not really doing things legit since I'm flying around right now
14:53 FreeFull Huh, this biome is new
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14:56 FreeFull Ok, it's just a little arid island with a lot of papyrus
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15:10 FreeFull Come ooon, I just need one bit of jungle grass
15:15 FreeFull paramat: It'd be neat if dungeons spawned chests with goodies
15:16 paramat that might happen
15:17 paramat rainforest is in hot areas, next to savanna which is next to desert
15:18 paramat but it's also down to luck
15:19 FreeFull paramat: I'm skirting the edge of a desert right now
15:19 FreeFull Been looking around savannas but no luck there
15:23 FreeFull Another savanna with no jungle next to it
15:25 FreeFull FINALLY
15:25 * paramat is relieved
15:26 paramat mgv7 is more challenging, sometimes you need to explore a lot to get certain resources
15:27 nm0i Just cheat!
15:27 paramat 0.4.13 stable?
15:28 paramat biomes are 2/3 the size now
15:35 FreeFull I'm using the latest git
15:36 paramat ah good
15:37 FreeFull The jungle is about 5000 blocks away
15:37 FreeFull Had to fly for a while to find it
15:37 FreeFull Oh, 4143.9m apparently
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15:39 Tiktalik ...
15:39 Tiktalik freefull.
15:39 Tiktalik hi.
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15:42 paramat hm 5kn is a lot, but this can't be avoided, biomes would become too small
15:42 FreeFull Hi Tiktalik
15:43 FreeFull paramat: Could make things less random, but that'd be more boring too
15:44 paramat well noise is always random, i could though adjust the humidity point of rainforest to make it more common
15:45 paramat .. make it and desert slightly larger, and savanna slightly smaller
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15:48 paramat but then, perhaps the randomness was just against you with this seed
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16:00 Tiktalik hmm
16:00 Tiktalik what should i do now
16:00 Tiktalik FreeFull: I remember your name
16:05 FreeFull Tiktalik: I remember yours too
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16:19 Tiktalik FreeFull: what kind of fun and interesting stuff should i do in minetest
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16:24 MinetestBot [git] Rui914 -> minetest/minetest: Fix == to = 06e5d0f http://git.io/vCFCd (2015-10-17T17:20:58+01:00)
16:26 FreeFull Tiktalik: Waterfall castle
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17:00 Tiktalik naaaah
17:00 Tiktalik i'm gonna mod this sucker
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17:11 Ingar awesome caves
17:13 Tiktalik hey VanessaE, you here?
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17:16 Krock Tiktalik, stone mountains using water + lava bucket
17:16 Tiktalik Krock: it's too late, the moddening has started
17:17 Krock moddening?
17:17 Tiktalik yes
17:17 Tiktalik the moddening
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17:48 Tiktalik um
17:49 Tiktalik Krock: have you ever made a mod
17:49 Krock http://nimg.pf-control.de/MTstuff/mod​Search.php?st=1&amp;at=0&amp;q=Krock
17:49 Krock Decide self if that's a yes or not
17:50 Tiktalik do you have any clue why my textures are showing up as having a white background despite being transparent
17:50 Tiktalik wait, nevermind
17:50 Tiktalik saved with wrong bit depth
17:51 Krock use_texture_alpha = true
17:51 Krock in your node definition
17:55 Tiktalik thanks Krock, though I figured out my problem :P
17:55 Krock good to hear
17:55 Krock !next
17:55 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
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20:07 MinetestBot [git] PilzAdam -> minetest/minetest: New settings tab contain all possible settings 006ef5b http://git.io/vCbLd (2015-10-17T22:06:29+02:00)
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20:12 Krock \o/ a better setting tab
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20:13 Krock Good job, PilzAdam!
20:13 Viper Hi, what is difference between minetest_next and minetest_game?
20:14 Krock Viper, MTG is newer and contains all _next features
20:14 Viper Krock:  so i can replace minetest_game with minetest_next?
20:15 Krock Viper, the other way would be better IMO
20:15 Viper Krock:  i use minetest_game already, thinking to switch to next
20:16 Krock Ah I see the _next got some updates.. just use both
20:16 * Krock is confused to have the setting change formspec buttons in the order of [Cancel][Save] - normally it would be the other way
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20:22 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Re-add "file" type for --add-location for xgettext call 6b40824 http://git.io/vCbYG (2015-10-17T22:20:47+02:00)
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21:58 MinetestBot [git] kahrl -> minetest/minetest: Fix GUITable selection issues with trees c4d1862 http://git.io/vCbur (2015-10-17T23:57:28+02:00)
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