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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-10-11

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:45 xfceKris What do I use in minetest.conf to tell the game where to write the debug.txt file?
01:45 xfceKris It's writing it to ~/ and I don't like that. I want it in ~/minetest.
01:46 xfceKris There has to be something, but I cant find anything in any of the config files that says where it goes...
01:48 nm0i More particle spawner weather attempts: http://me0w.net/pit/1444528101
01:49 Hirato weird
01:49 Hirato the image is sharp but the colours look like crap
01:50 nm0i Ah that stream offset
01:50 nm0i wget first, sorry
01:51 Hirato that does help, cheers
01:52 Hirato there's probably a better way to do rain that's less intense particle wise
01:53 nm0i Tell?
01:53 Hirato I imagine there's going to be large gaps in the rain when lua pressure gets high
01:53 xfceKris And where the heck did fst_api.txt come from? Nobody ever mentions this file when referencing anything to do with formspecs
01:54 nm0i There are gaps due to network lag.
01:54 waressearcher2 xfceKris: how is your modding going ?
01:54 Hirato wut?
01:54 Hirato you actually sync particles?
01:55 xfceKris It's on hold until I understand formspecs better.
01:55 waressearcher2 xfceKris: still not out of steam ?
01:55 est31 xfceKris, that API is only for the main menu
01:55 est31 its not for normal formspecs
01:55 xfceKris Aha, thank you est31...
01:55 nm0i Hirato: no idea what you're talking about.
01:56 xfceKris waressearcher2, I'm reading to understand lua better before I try formspecs again. I kept failing, so I thought maybe it would behoove me to study more first.
01:57 xfceKris However, I can put some awesome nodes together now. :D Nothing hosted on github except the double chest though. Just a handful of practice blocks.
01:57 waressearcher2 xfceKris: have you made any mods for other games previously ?
01:57 kaeza joined #minetest
01:58 xfceKris No, this is the first time I've ever tried modding anything at all.
02:00 kaeza welcome to hell >:)
02:00 kaeza just kidding
02:02 kaeza last time I checked, MT created debug.txt in the current working directory, which happens to be ~/ when invoked using the .desktop file
02:04 nm0i Hirato: i don't "sync" particles anywhere to my knowledge.
02:05 Hirato then why does network lag have anything to do with it?
02:05 Hirato apart from a short delay to get an "It's raining now!" message across
02:06 nm0i No Idea. As far as I understand particle spawner works server side?
02:06 Hirato sounds very inefficient
02:06 xfceKris kaeza, yeah, but it allows for relocation of the debug.txt file a few different ways. One example is with the command used to start minetest, use --logfile 'location/location/location'
02:07 nm0i Hirato: sorry, assumed you're one of locals.
02:07 Hirato I'm not at all, hahaha
02:07 xfceKris but that's executing from terminal. I want it to wipe the old and create a new every time I use the .desktop
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02:08 Hirato most engines I worked with had particles 100% client side
02:08 Hirato the closest you'd have to any networking in them were common events that spawned particles for everyone, ie, gun was shot from here, rocket exploded here, etc
02:08 xfceKris That would make it difficult to use a weather mod on a server I would think.
02:09 Hirato would it?
02:09 Hirato at the moment, doesn't the client download all the lua scripts and stuff anyway?
02:09 xfceKris Yeah, because it wouldn't necessarily be raining for everyone in the same area at the same time.
02:09 nm0i Sounds like Minetest is another MUD
02:10 xfceKris MUD?
02:10 Hirato but the server side component just needs to say "weather in xyz is currently: a"
02:10 Hirato then clients in xyz will just simulate the particles on their end until the weather changes
02:10 Hirato or they leave xyz
02:10 xfceKris That gives half the job to the client and half to the server.
02:11 Hirato the server side shouldn't send or spawn any particles, that's super inefficient
02:11 Hirato it's far less than half to the server
02:11 xfceKris The client would only handle the event itself, The server would handle when and where the event happened in order to make sure everyone experiences it.
02:11 xfceKris That's just more information that has to pass over the network, creating network lag.
02:12 Hirato the server just needs to dictate what weather is where, the client needs to know that so it can simulate the weather properly
02:12 xfceKris brb
02:12 nm0i I'd rather have general mechanism to tell clients what lua code thay should run locally.
02:13 nm0i But particle spawner is not that greedy. It's just my net sucks atm...
02:14 xfceKris Then, does the client just keep the weather going until the server tells it to stop? Or would it work better if the server gave a time limit on the initial start command?
02:15 Hirato depends on implementation
02:15 Hirato I'd do the former
02:16 xfceKris I would do it the latter way, with a time limit. So that the server only has to pass the information one time to each client, instead of having to keep track of whats happening the whole time.
02:16 xfceKris The timer method gives the client full control, and allows the entire event to happen with one command.
02:17 xfceKris "set it and forget it"
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02:17 Hirato you make a fair point
02:18 xfceKris curiosity, why would you do it the other way?
02:18 Hirato they walk out of the area in which it's raining
02:18 Hirato or another client enters the area in which it's raining
02:19 Hirato it would be weird if it rains longer for one client than the other for more than a few seconds
02:19 nm0i Cant I just hack drivers to add alpha channel to used in particles fragment shader.
02:20 nm0i Sure having all code run on servers is sort of anti-cheat... but you don't always need it.
02:20 xfceKris The server would pass the information to the client for any area nearby, within the loaded chunks anyway.
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02:22 xfceKris so those with excellent graphics cards and tons of memory, that have full viewing range on would be able to see the rain off in the distance. But those of us with lower end or average pc's wouldn't see the rain from far off.
02:22 xfceKris It would essentially be part of the landscape that is loaded from the server.
02:23 Hirato makes sense
02:23 Hirato but I thought that'd be a bad idea because then the entire chunk would need to sync if the weather changes
02:24 Hirato but then, I also don't know minetest's network stack :P
02:24 xfceKris And as far as the timing goes with it raining longer on some clients than others, the only delay would be net delay. With the timer method, once the client received the info, it would start the rain. So if you have a 0.7 second net delay, it would only rain for 0.7 seconds longer on your client than on the client with a 0.0 second delay.
02:24 Hirato a few seconds doesn't matter
02:25 xfceKris The chunk wouldn't need to re sync if the weather stops, that's handled client side by the timer. Only when the weather starts. ( I can see this part causing lag)
02:25 Hirato the delay should be because it didn't get the information to stop or start, not because the server is supposed to spawn the particles
02:25 xfceKris ^^^Precisely.
02:27 xfceKris If it doesn't get the info to start, then it just doesn't rain on that client (could cause a connection time out). But with the timer, it wouldn't have to worry about weather or not it got the information to stop, as that is handled client side
02:27 Hirato hmmhmmm
02:28 xfceKris Give as much work to the client as possible, to lessen the load on the server, and the net connection.
02:28 xfceKris Wow, I'm glad I have something to focus on right now, my brain is going warp speed...
02:33 nm0i There is mod that uses individual particles for rain/snow...
02:45 comradmax what does the particle spawner spawn on the server?  are its particles like the mobs that can move around in the world?
02:52 nm0i I'm getting feeling nobody of talking here is one of locals..
02:52 nm0i s/one/none/
02:56 waressearcher2 what is "locals"
02:58 comradmax someone who knows enough about this open source project to be worthy here probably
02:59 * comradmax is not a local
02:59 xfceKris nm0i, for "locals" you could check #minetest-dev
03:00 comradmax forums are probably the best, ppl can check any time
03:00 xfceKris ^^^ that too
03:01 * comradmax high-fives xfceKris
03:01 nm0i Or I could just quit writing useless needed mods :)
03:01 nm0i *not-needed
03:01 comradmax particles would be cool
03:01 comradmax i mean rain and weather would be cool
03:05 comradmax it might stop my forest fire
03:06 nm0i Noup :(
03:06 nm0i But nice idea, will try it
03:10 xfceKris Wold slow down forest fire, not stop it.
03:10 bleak_fire_ hey what determines the order on the public server list? it isnt lag
03:11 comradmax OldCoder and VanessaE have a phone call each day
03:12 comradmax "you take first 5, i'll shuffle the rest around a little"
03:12 xfceKris lmao comradmax.
03:12 xfceKris Thats funny right there.
03:12 comradmax ty:)
03:12 waressearcher2 comradmax: no one here is lolcats
03:13 xfceKris who tf is lolcats?
03:14 waressearcher2 its misspeling of "locals"
03:14 waressearcher2 no ?
03:15 nm0i No
03:15 nm0i Mew.
03:16 xfceKris Careful, my Danes hate cats.
03:16 comradmax i read Dames
03:16 xfceKris read again then.lol
03:18 waressearcher2 someone should add lolcats in addition to nyancats
03:18 comradmax i vote for a simple name change
03:19 waressearcher2 you combine them to make an jerry bomb
03:19 comradmax as in tom and jerry?
03:19 waressearcher2 cherry
03:19 comradmax tom and cherry?
03:19 waressearcher2 cherry bomb
03:20 waressearcher2 with a lollypoops as a destructable particles
03:20 comradmax im no expert, but shouldnt there be a 3rd ingredient?
03:20 waressearcher2 lollypoops
03:20 comradmax perfect
03:21 waressearcher2 1 x lolcat + 2 x nyancat + 1024 x lollypoops = cherry bomb
03:21 comradmax new mod, DigestTest, turn food into poop, make poop bricks into lolypoops?
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03:22 comradmax "what are you doing?" "im smelting poop clumps into poop_ingots"
03:23 Hirato poop sword
03:23 comradmax poop hat!
03:23 Hirato poop pick
03:23 Hirato makes a 90's splat sound effect whenever it digs something
03:23 waressearcher2 no you grow lollypoops on a candy fields
03:24 comradmax has anyone, ANYONE, tried cactus pants IRL?
03:25 AndroidKris Wow, okay, my internet decided to kick back on at the WRONG moment...
03:25 AndroidKris wtf did I walk in on?
03:25 Hirato brainstorming for poopblock mod
03:25 comradmax typical mod discussion
03:26 comradmax poop_biome
03:26 nm0i poop_rain
03:26 comradmax nah, that's stupid
03:26 AndroidKris Yeah, I'm sorry I was watching when I rejoined the channel.
03:27 Hirato AndroidKris: as for cactus armour, you can ask anyone that's ever had contact with jumping chollas :P
03:29 AndroidKris jumping chollas?
03:29 Hirato http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/33​128/5833310/1266626146537/GolferCactus.j​pg?token=ptht2RXEAFK6dfIipMx9h4beERM%3D this is a bit graphic, but it's what happens when you get close to them
03:29 AndroidKris Do I need incognito for this link?
03:29 Hirato no
03:30 AndroidKris Ohhhhhhhhhh.....
03:30 AndroidKris ouch
03:30 * AndroidKris cringe
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04:39 arsdragonfly !server arsdragonfly
04:39 MinetestBot arsdragonfly: Arsdragonfly's Landrush! Minetest server | arsenalmp.noip.me:30001 | Clients: 0/15, 0/0 | Version: 0.4.13-dev / minetest | Ping: 310ms
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07:42 swift110-phone Hey
07:43 nm0i Hi
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07:53 guest85140 Hello, i want a serveur on my computer fot play with my friend, i do not know, help me ?
07:55 operon joined #minetest
07:56 swift110-phone Hnm
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08:21 waressearcher2 guest85140: have you ever played minecraft ?
08:31 Krock guest85140, see http://wiki.minetest.net/Setting_up_a_server and https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?f=10&t=8924
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08:40 operon Kray, thanks, i read
08:44 Krock tab error
08:44 Krock !next
08:44 MinetestBot Another satisfied customer. Next!
08:52 alket joined #minetest
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09:18 waressearcher2 !previous
09:18 nm0i !play
09:18 waressearcher2 I'm not finished with you yet
09:20 Krock waressearcher2, don't worry. They have the same IP
09:22 waressearcher2 !g People Can Fly
09:22 MinetestBot waressearcher2: http://peoplecanfly.com/
09:24 Krock Ahh this feels good. Fresh minetest/minetest clone with depth 10 instead of (previously) everything
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09:25 waressearcher2 Krock: smoking ?
09:26 Krock waressearcher2, no, otherwise I could fly too
09:26 Krock cuz so high
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10:29 nm0i http://me0w.net/pit/1444559306
10:31 SylvieLorxu joined #minetest
10:42 Krock that's a lightening
10:44 nm0i Yaay, recognisable
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11:22 sloan2thebone Hi
11:22 sloan2thebone joined #minetest
11:23 Krock Hi
11:39 comradmax !g sloan
11:39 MinetestBot comradmax: http://www.sloanvalve.com/
11:40 comradmax not what i get when i google
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11:44 SylvieLorxu "Hybrid Urinals"
11:44 SylvieLorxu That's new
11:44 SylvieLorxu I'm not sure if I want to know what it means
11:48 FreeFull They have both a petrol and an electric engine
11:50 comradmax i think it means there is always someone willing to pay a premium for a hybrid
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12:15 FreeFull Apparently it's like the urinals that don't use water, but it flushes every 72 hours to avoid mineral buildup
12:20 comradmax we dont need no water
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13:09 TheWild a little adventury about "git submodule update --recursive": http://pastebin.com/QCzYPdBY
13:09 TheWild anyone could help?
13:11 Krock If it fails to use HTTPS, try HTTP (port80)
13:11 TheWild do I have to change the origin of each submodule?
13:14 Krock try it
13:20 * TheWild is scratching his head.
13:21 TheWild searching for "git-update" - google answers git-update-ref, git-update-index, git-update-server-info...
13:22 TheWild what exactly "git update" (just update) does?
13:24 * Krock loves GUIs
13:24 TheWild okay, "git update" isn't a command, "git submodule update" is! Sorry about messing up the chat.
13:25 TheWild git seems to be a great piece of software, but from other side is just unintuitive piece of crap
13:34 The_Loko joined #minetest
13:35 Krock TheWild, how about SVN?
13:38 TheWild never tested. I'm rarely using repositories for my own projects.
13:38 Wuzzy joined #minetest
13:38 Krock That's sad. Other people could help you ^^
13:41 TheWild the only three situations I'm using git on: work, fixing minetest mods and uploading my own code to github
13:48 TheWild why we're using Lua 5.1 while there is 5.2?
13:49 Hirato because luajit
13:49 TheWild ah, probably missing in 5.2, yeah?
13:50 Krock 2.1.0-beta1 is the newest version
13:51 Hirato nothing says bad idea like beta in the name
13:52 Krock I better should update.. still using the old 2.0.3 version
13:53 Hirato arch gave me 2.0.4 back in May
13:54 Krock o.0 'fatal: dumb http transport does not support --depth'
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14:04 Calinou https://packages.debian.org​/search?keywords=libluajit
14:04 Calinou 2.0.4 in Debian sid
14:05 Calinou TheWild, there is Lua 5.3 now.
14:05 Calinou but LuaJIT author is opposed to Lua 5.2 and 5.3 entirely.
14:05 Calinou some day, we'll need a LuaJIT fork. :(
14:05 Krock ^ this but still not supporting Irrlicht 1.8.0 fully
14:07 Hirato how come?
14:07 TheWild Krock: Irrlicht is a 3D graphics engine that is rather like a "slave" of Minetes. What does "supporting" mean in your context?
14:09 Krock TheWild, afaik, there is a particle support by Irrlicht and Minetet uses its own
14:10 Calinou there was a WIP on using native Irrlicht particles
14:10 Calinou it was never merged for some reason
14:10 Krock Lol. We can't spell Minetest correctly
14:10 Hirato minetet was teh bets pharoah
14:10 Krock I thought it was.. too bad
14:10 TheWild I'm little against having third-party engine inside Minetest. I know that using engine is easier, but two problems may arise:
14:11 TheWild 1. If Irrlicht has a bug, Minetest has a bug as well.
14:11 Krock revert is possible
14:11 TheWild 2. If Irrlicht can't do something...
14:11 Krock .. we can extend
14:11 Calinou Irrlicht bugs do happen
14:12 Calinou this is why I wish we had forked Irrlicht like STK did
14:12 Calinou we could have used Urho3D instead too
14:12 Calinou but I think it didn't exist at the time Minetest was created
14:12 Krock let's fork STK's irrlicht!
14:13 Calinou it's called Antarctica
14:13 Krock kinda funny that there are more, active forks than guys who contribute to the original project
14:13 nrzkt curl has a bug MT has a bug, we should fork curl. Libc has a bug , we should fork libc because MT uses it.
14:13 Krock or at least I have that feeling
14:15 Krock fork Linux
14:15 TheWild I do not mean to fork everything that has a bug, but if we're supposed to do something and we can't because something we're using has a bug
14:15 Krock and spoon Windows
14:15 TheWild or it is still possible thanks to workarounds
14:19 TheWild .NET has System.Windows.Forms, which has messed up, unintuitive threading (e.g. changing form title in different thread) and during writing some application I realized that the builtin autocomplete stuff for textbox fails to work when you want to update result set based on what text was put to textbox. Stackoverflow didn't help - people were tired trying to work around this and just started writing autocompletes on their own.
14:20 TheWild I'm afraid than when I dig further expecting flawless features, I lose more time trying to make workaround for Microsoft flaws than writing my own form system.
14:23 TheWild long time ago when I was learning programming thanks to QBASIC and had no internet connection at that time, when I wanted to draw BMP or TGA on screen, lack of existing code wasn't a problem for me. The problem was lack of format specifications.
14:25 Krock GTK would be an alternative
14:31 sloan2thebone joined #minetest
14:32 Calinou or Qt :)
14:33 TheWild does Qt have no-IDE compiler only?
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14:34 Calinou you can use qmake in command-line
14:35 TheWild wait, Qt is a library!
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14:57 Krock Calinou, a friend asked for a good VPS. Do you have any recommendations?
14:57 Krock Gave him some links but I don't really know what's good and bad
14:57 greeter well i have two with ramnode, they've always treated me quite well
14:58 Krock oh, good to hear, thanks :)
15:07 Calinou Krock, I don't know any good international one
15:07 Calinou there is DigitalOcean, but it's expensive
15:08 greeter what do you mean by international ones?
15:09 Calinou non-French ones
15:09 greeter ah i see
15:09 Krock DigitalOcean seems to have an acceptable pricing
15:10 Krock I've seen worse offers around
15:10 greeter there are other considerations too. if you think your vps might be the target of a ddos for instance, what are the provider's policies on that
15:11 greeter i know with evorack they allow one ddos on a vps. if it's ddosed a second time the account is canceled, no exceptions. most are more lenient than that
15:16 Calinou https://lut.im/7dkEhLIkWP/xBvC8PViBa7RGP5H.png
15:16 Calinou 18500 points at NinjaSnowWar!
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15:55 TheWild Minetest took 1,7 GB on just Dreambuilder after walking 200m away from home.
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16:10 FreeFull TheWild: That sounds like a bit too much
16:11 FreeFull My a bit I mean a lot
16:11 Calinou people should make properly sized subgames
16:12 FreeFull My whole .minetest directory takes up 562 MiB, and that's several worlds
16:12 FreeFull And a bunch of mods
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16:13 Calinou 81 MB here :P
16:16 TheWild oh sorry, 1,7 GB I meant RAM
16:17 FreeFull My worlds directory is about 309MB, and my cache about 122MB
16:18 FreeFull My Caves world seems to be the biggest
16:20 TheWild Carbone, Dreambuilder, Minetest, Minimal, RandomCrap, RealTest, World and 14 worlds recorded from servers: total 183 MB
16:20 Krock !c 180 / 85
16:20 MinetestBot 2.1176470588235294
16:20 Krock ~2 MiB per mod
16:21 Krock err
16:21 Krock !c 85 / 180
16:21 MinetestBot 0.4722222222222222
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16:29 MinetestBot [git] PilzAdam -> minetest/minetest_game: Fix wrong nomenclature in game_api.txt c15bd9d http://git.io/vCCOh (2015-10-11T18:29:39+02:00)
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16:40 JawsClaws ok so i got minetest 0.4.13 and i dont know if there should be a minimap on my screen because ive seen it in minetest-0.4.13/textures/bas​e/pack/minimap-overlay-round and minimap-overlay-square and its not showing on my screen im on my way to become an expert in minetest and i am just not with programming(only a bit in programming though) and of course with the new minimap
16:54 TheWild press F9
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17:01 Krock people can't read the topic...
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17:10 Xeprione hello =P
17:12 Krock hi
17:12 Xeprione oh hey krock :)
17:12 Xeprione btw, i posted a comeback thread on the forum>>offtopic section
17:14 Krock Lol. Forgetting the password happens but the email too...
17:15 Krock However, Welcome back.
17:15 Xeprione yeah... it's just that i've used like 3-4 gmail accounts, many custom emails etc
17:15 Xeprione thanks :)
17:17 Xeprione but right now i only use 2 emails, one of which is my school's email address :P
17:17 Xeprione the same one i'm using on the forums
17:33 rubenwardy Haskell is actually pretty cool
17:34 rubenwardy I just made a program to solve any polynomial, using Newton's Method and Long Division
17:34 Xeprione how cool?
17:34 Xeprione oo, cool :D
17:34 Xeprione ruben, did you know that i aced my math exam :D
17:34 Xeprione and got a B in my physics exam
17:36 Calinou but "nobody will run your Haskell code" —xkcd ;)
17:36 Calinou rubenwardy, I'm trying to learn C++ here
17:36 Calinou https://up1.ca/#H1HK6pH0w1c44VQhBi-Z7g
17:36 Calinou average of n numbers
17:36 Xeprione Calinou: might I suggest http://cplusplus.com ?
17:36 Calinou uses vector
17:36 Calinou Xeprione, AFAIK that is a pretty bad site.
17:36 Calinou cppreference is better
17:37 Calinou like w3schools (w3fools) is for the Web platform.
17:37 Xeprione don't know, doing well using that :D
17:37 Xeprione but thanks for the info :P i might use cppref later :P
17:38 Calinou http://devdocs.io/
17:38 Calinou this site has tons of documentation
17:38 Calinou you can read it offline using a browser add-on
17:38 Calinou and you can also use a dark theme
17:38 TheWild I preferred C over C++ because C was more machine-like and I had more control over how thing works, so that's why I don't code in C++.
17:38 TheWild What's wrong with w3schools?
17:39 Xeprione nice :D btw Cal, if i create an array like this: bool *a[256], do i need to initialize it?
17:39 Xeprione or is it automatically initialized?
17:39 Xeprione don't use arrays that much
17:39 Calinou TheWild, http://www.w3fools.com/
17:39 Calinou Xeprione, I don't know
17:39 Xeprione ok
17:39 Xeprione i'll try it without initializing
17:39 TheWild oh, this! ;D
17:40 Calinou C++ is pretty much about trial and error :p
17:40 TheWild I'll bet that C++ does not initialize by itself
17:41 Calinou TheWild, just saying, but people rarely write programs in plain C anymore... except programming languages themselves, or embedded stuff
17:41 Calinou games are C++, GUIs are C++ (Qt)
17:41 Calinou many libraries are also C++
17:41 Calinou even my Doom client is C++
17:42 TheWild I blamed MinGW's C++ complier for making >600 KB bloated EXE just from cout << "Hello, world." << endl;
17:43 Calinou try UPX
17:43 Calinou http://upx.sourceforge.net/
17:43 Calinou support for 64-bit Windows binaries is experimental though
17:43 TheWild the same thing in C, also MinGW: puts("Hello, world."); was < 30 KB
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17:44 Calinou I understand why people run after high-level languages so much
17:44 Calinou C++ is pretty verbose
17:44 Calinou the thing I did would be quite shorter in Python
17:45 rom1504 "except programming languages themselves" not so much, c is used for kernels though
17:45 rubenwardy Calinou, I was forced to use Haskell as part of my coursework for Uni
17:45 Calinou that's "embedded" to me
17:45 rubenwardy It's a different way of thinking
17:45 Calinou rubenwardy, here they force us to use PHP and JavaScript (jQuery).
17:46 Calinou I'm at multi-dimensional arrays, functions/procedures in PHP
17:46 Calinou and we haven't started JavaScript yet
17:46 sfan5 Calinou: upx is not the solution to bad compilers
17:46 rubenwardy We use C (for procedural), Haskell (for Functional), Java (for OOP), Javascript (for scripting)
17:46 kaeza I tested UPX on minetest.exe; size went down from ~10M to ~3M. more size reduction from other DLLs too (particularly Irrlicht)
17:46 rubenwardy Haskell isn't procedural, so algorithms are more like filtering down of operations
17:46 Calinou kaeza, use -9 switch for good compression
17:46 rubenwardy it's weird
17:46 Xeprione pffft, Calinou guess what i was trying to do :D i have 3 classes in a header: input, keyboard and mouse... i made a pointer for a keyboard and mouse before i declared them :D
17:47 Xeprione and i was shocked to see so many errors :D
17:47 Calinou haven't got to pointers yet
17:47 Calinou nor OOP
17:47 Xeprione ok, well, good luck :P
17:47 Xeprione might seem hard to understand (it really is), but once you understand it, it's easy
17:47 TheWild in C: there was char*, I learned that it is a pointer and copying a pointer does not copy a whole string. If I wanted a copy, it was trivial to write some code to copy bytes until '\0' was reached, ofc '\0' must be copied too... I learned later that strcpy already does the job.
17:47 Calinou I really want to make a full game :/
17:48 Obani Calinou, help Kobuge :p
17:48 Calinou either in Godot, or Urho3D (it has AngelScript and Lua scripting)
17:48 TheWild I had complete control where to use references and where to copy the string
17:48 Calinou I'm more skilled in Godot right now, but 3D isn't that good
17:48 Xeprione Calinou, that's why i'm learning c++ :P gonna make a 3D rpg with nothing but C++, SDL2 and assets :D
17:48 Obani Calinou, you want to make a full 3d game ?
17:48 kaeza sfan5, compression is not the job of compilers (whether compression makes sense in a particular case is a differet matter)
17:48 Xeprione hey kaeza
17:48 Calinou Xeprione, I think that's self-hurting
17:48 TheWild and in C++? string a = "Blah"; string b = a; somefunc(b);
17:48 Calinou Obani, yes
17:48 kaeza hello Xeprione
17:48 Calinou Xeprione, better use a pre-made 3D engine really
17:48 TheWild where is ptr and where is copy?
17:49 Obani Xeprione, Cube 2 Engine as some RPG elements if you want to complie rpg client. It's pretty empty thought...
17:49 Xeprione i'm not alone though, i have a 4-man team (me, one c#, c and c++ coder and two modellers)
17:49 Xeprione nah, i want to use nothing but sdl2 :D
17:49 Obani afk
17:49 Xeprione i know it's hard, but that's the point :D
17:49 Obani afk
17:49 TheWild there are a lot of new weird languages, sadly most of them don't make programming easier
17:50 Calinou that's true
17:50 Calinou I still find high-level programming hard
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17:51 kaeza why?
17:51 Calinou but I guess that's because I'm not skilled enough in algorithms
17:51 Xeprione hey Calinou, guess what I have
17:51 Xeprione guess :D
17:51 Calinou it's been 5 years since I first learned C
17:51 Calinou and most people say, "it takes 10 years to be a good programmer"
17:52 Xeprione Calinou: i have a window with a gay-cursor :D http://prntscr.com/8q5xft
17:52 Calinou not most, but I heard that once
17:52 kaeza <TheWild> there are a lot of new weird languages, sadly most of them don't make programming easier <-- related: https://xkcd.com/927/
17:52 Calinou "Every time someone with a PhD sneezes, a new programming language is created"
17:52 Calinou *SNEEZE* Dart
17:52 Xeprione :D
17:52 Calinou *SNEEZE* Julia
17:52 Calinou *SNEEZE* Rust
17:52 Xeprione Calinou: DO you have a PhD?
17:53 Calinou nope
17:53 Calinou I started uni 1 month ago, and don't ever plan to get one
17:53 Calinou will probably study for 3 years
17:53 Calinou Web stuff
17:54 Xeprione nice :O
17:55 Xeprione i started studying software development a month ago :D
17:55 Xeprione who would've though i'd get this far, eh?
17:55 Calinou I'm not sure if I'll ever be a good programmer :/
17:55 Xeprione Calinou...
17:55 Xeprione believe in yourself, have some confidence
17:55 Calinou like, make a semi-complex game
17:56 Xeprione define semi-complex? what does it mean to you?
17:56 Xeprione because semi-complex is relative to the person saying it
17:56 Calinou a singleplayer Doom-like FPS with no networking?
17:56 Xeprione 3D?
17:56 Calinou yes
17:56 Calinou or a 2D platformer with shooting
17:56 Xeprione well, you CAN do it!
17:56 Calinou like in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k-N49P5N1I
17:56 Xeprione you can do both! seriously!
17:57 Xeprione can't view it right now, my connection is capped to 30kb/sec
17:57 Xeprione due to me using up 25gb of bandwidth in 8 days
17:57 Calinou !title
17:57 MinetestBot Calinou: If Quake 2 was 2D - YouTube
17:57 Xeprione ok
17:57 Calinou I have 20 GB of mobile data, and unlimited home Internet (1.2 MB/s download, 100 KB/s upload)
17:57 Calinou :p
17:57 Xeprione Calinou, pass it around, dude :D
17:58 Xeprione Calinou: do you mean top-down 2D or sidescrolling 2D?
17:58 Calinou sidescrolling
17:58 Xeprione well, the hardest thing i can think about that would be the physics
17:58 Calinou I like this game engine because it does a lot of things for you: http://godotengine.org/
17:58 Xeprione but again, it's possible
17:58 Calinou physic are easy, translations are easy, key configuration is easy...
17:58 Calinou window management is done for you (it's not SDL though)
17:58 Calinou Android support? easy
17:58 Xeprione yes, but if you don't use those, you will learn a lot
17:58 Calinou :)
17:59 Calinou that's why I want to use Urho3D some day
17:59 Calinou it does mostly only rendering, the rest is done via AngelScript or Lua
17:59 Xeprione learn basic c++, then learn SDL2 and finally make your dreams a reality!
17:59 Xeprione don't let your dreams be dreams
17:59 Calinou I don't feel like writing game logic in C++
17:59 Calinou that's asking for it to be hard to maintain
17:59 Calinou need to recompile software when you change your game logic...
18:00 Calinou with interpreted languages as game logic, you don't need that
18:00 Xeprione true
18:01 Xeprione btw Calinou, i tried it... got an error... fixed that, now if i get the value of a[0], it gives me 205
18:01 Xeprione like a random-ass number :D
18:01 Xeprione no, not random... it gives me the same 205 every time... :D
18:01 Calinou weird, it works at least in GCC on Fedora 22
18:01 Calinou haven't tried Clang
18:02 Calinou works in Clang++ too
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18:12 Xeprione who's fluent in c++? i made an array of booleans (size=256), didn't set any of the values in the array... but somehow each of the values is 205...
18:13 Calinou hmmmm is, a lot
18:13 Calinou also there is ##c++
18:13 TheWild did you mean comparision: size == 256 ?
18:13 Xeprione no
18:14 Xeprione i made an array like this: bool a[256];
18:14 Xeprione then i loop through it (for int i....) and print in on the screen
18:14 Xeprione and it prints 205 each time
18:14 hmmmm variables in C++ are not automatically initialized
18:14 Xeprione for all of those
18:14 Xeprione ok
18:14 Xeprione but why are all of those 205?
18:14 hmmmm that 205 is probably equal to 0xCC, which is the debugger's special value to let you know that it hasn't been initialized
18:14 Xeprione oh ok
18:15 Xeprione 204, but close enough...
18:15 Xeprione thanks :P
18:15 hmmmm when compiling for debug, different types of variables are set to special byte patterns to let you know about the uninitialized state of that memory
18:15 hmmmm if it's 0xCD then it's uninitialized heap memory
18:15 hmmmm 0xCC is uninitialized stack memory
18:15 Xeprione ok
18:15 Xeprione thanks
18:15 TheWild hmmmm, in my theory it is: you never know what gibberish you get from variables before you initialize them.
18:16 Xeprione true :D thanks though :D
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18:16 Krock TheWild, a perfect random number ^^
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18:19 Xeprione good, now after i set all of the values inside the array to false, it works :D
18:19 Xeprione thanks guys
18:20 Xeprione well, imma go buy some milk and cook me some oatmeal... bye for now, bbl
18:20 swift110 cool
18:20 Xeprione lol, gotta hurry doe, the store closes in 40
18:20 Xeprione so... bye now
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18:33 TheWild why on studies they learn C/C++ and Pascal instead of Basic?
18:41 TheWild Basic (especially old QBASIC and pretty new FreeBasic) is verbose but most stuff is builtin (string operations, graphics) and ready to use without #including anything and no overuse of punctuation characters. Perfect for learning!
18:42 Calinou Python is a good learning language
18:43 Krock Lua too ;)
18:43 TheWild okay, Python has print('Hello, world.'), but no easy way to enter graphics and have fun doing simple games.
18:44 Calinou use PyQt for graphical applications, pygame for games
18:45 Krock use PyDead for killing applications, pyvirus for world's restart
18:46 TheWild is Qt language itself?
18:47 Krock Forgive me for that bad sentence.
18:47 TheWild damn, Qt is a library for C++, QML and Java. Ahhh! I do not remember where I got sclerosis implemented.
18:47 TheWild *when
18:49 Calinou you can use it with Python using PyQt
18:49 Calinou (Qt 4 and Qt 5)
18:50 TheWild I heard very rarely about Qt and when I look at it, it reminds me of swiss army knife at the time I just learning to use simple screwdriver
18:50 Calinou GTK+ sucks, wxWidgets is fading... what else do we have?
18:51 Krock It's not hard to use a swiss army knife
18:51 Krock Calinou, why does it suck?
18:51 Calinou it took 2 years to have a Windows port
18:51 Calinou it insists on using its poor file chooser
18:51 Calinou it makes lots of assumptions about windowing in general
18:51 TheWild was that irony or GTK+ has flaws I'd like to know before I start mastering it?
18:52 Calinou no, it wasn't, GTK+ should be avoided IMO
18:52 Calinou 2 is outdated, and 3 is made by the "foot guys"
18:52 Calinou (aka. GNOME developers)
18:52 Krock Qt 5 should be avoided when you want to make Win XP users happy :P
18:52 Calinou Atom supports only Windows 7 and later, I think that's fine.
18:53 Calinou non-commercial software doesn't need to support Windows XP, or even Vista
18:56 Krock !tell JamesTait remember world Windows XP day in 14 days
18:56 MinetestBot Krock: yeah, sure, whatever
18:57 Calinou Box.com will stop supporting IE 8 on December 31st, 2015 :)
19:01 TheWild !c (lambda x:x(x))(lambda x:x(x))
19:01 MinetestBot RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded
19:04 comradmax TheWild just kick-started the Singularity
19:07 Xeprione joined #minetest
19:07 Xeprione hey, guys, im back.
19:08 TheWild hello Xeprione
19:09 alket joined #minetest
19:09 Xeprione_ joined #minetest
19:09 Xeprione_ someone kick Xeprione please
19:10 Xeprione_ i timed out or something
19:10 TheWild no worries, you can change you nick back within a minute, I think.
19:10 Xeprione_ prolly
19:11 TheWild Bad news. It looks like I found a flaw in mesecons that can be used to crash the server and possibly render the map unplayable.
19:11 Xeprione_ btw, TheWild, you know what's embarrassing? when you realize you don't have enough money on your debit card and the cashier helps you out
19:11 Xeprione_ TheWild: Please, tell us more :D
19:12 Xeprione_ we will definitely not exploit it :D
19:12 Xeprione_ good
19:12 TheWild that's why I have not told which submod
19:12 Xeprione ooh, ok :D
19:12 Xeprione but tell me :D
19:12 TheWild no!
19:12 Xeprione fine. :P
19:13 Xeprione how'd ya find out tho? did you run into that problem?
19:13 TheWild yes, I crashed my singleplayer world.
19:14 TheWild ^ ofc, it was separate world for testing my machines
19:14 Xeprione ok
19:16 TheWild I thought I'll get attention of some dev around.
19:16 Xeprione well, you got the attention of an exploiter :D
19:16 Xeprione but really, i don't even have mt on my pc right now...
19:17 Obani bb people ;)
19:17 Xeprione bye
19:17 Xeprione :O
19:17 TheWild bye Obani
19:18 Xeprione that quit message though :D
19:22 Xeprione TheWild: what OS do you use?
19:22 TheWild Windows 7
19:23 Xeprione right now I use Windows 8.1 pro (got it from my school, thanks to DreamSpark), but i'm thinking of installing Ubuntu alongside windows
19:23 Xeprione what do you think? should I
19:23 Xeprione ?
19:24 Calinou yes, definitely
19:24 TheWild maybe. Some time ago I told myself that when this installation of Windows gets corrupted, I'll install Linux. Now I'm not sure, as Linux likes to go some unintuitive ways.
19:24 Calinou for the sake of your freedom and privacy
19:24 Calinou consider Xubuntu/Kubuntu/Lubuntu instead of bare Ubuntu though
19:25 Calinou or Fedora, or Debian testing...
19:25 Xeprione what would be better for just development?
19:25 Xeprione like, i will still mainly use windows, but want linux to be a weekly thing.
19:25 Xeprione just to kick back and use that
19:26 Calinou Xubuntu is pretty simple
19:26 Calinou http://xubuntu.org/
19:26 Calinou its desktop will likely remind you a lot of Windows
19:26 Xeprione btw, that feeling when you have the best internet around: http://i.imgur.com/vASzpOZ.png
19:26 Calinou wait for the end of the month, 15.10 will be released
19:26 Xeprione i don't want that
19:26 H-H-H joined #minetest
19:26 Xeprione i've used ubuntu, xubuntu...
19:26 TheWild Calinou brought a good point: privacy. Linux is definitely on the top. Windows is programmed in such way that I'm not sure the security holes were made because "to err is human", or they were intended.
19:26 Xeprione :D
19:27 Calinou https://github.com/10se1ucgo/DisableWinTracking doesn't fix the unfixable backdoor there is in Windows
19:27 Xeprione also, there's a hella easy back door for windows
19:27 Xeprione if you ever forget your password, do this: take a recovery cd and a flash drive with cmd.exe on it...
19:27 Xeprione or put them all on one disc
19:28 TheWild lol, Windows is tracking my Solitaire scores?
19:28 Calinou any operating system can have its administrator password reset – the only security is encryption
19:28 Xeprione then, boot into recovery mode (on the disc) and use the command prompt to copy cmd.exe to the system32 folder as a replacement for the high-contrast thing.exe
19:30 Xeprione then boot back into windows and enable the high-contrast option in the menu
19:30 Xeprione and voila - a cmd window with admin privlages appears
19:32 TheWild http://imgur.com/gallery/fqjnK
19:33 Xeprione i'll be right back, gonna use hexchat...
19:33 Xeprione BEEP
19:34 Xeprione joined #minetest
19:34 Xeprione i'm back!
19:34 Xeprione back in black!
19:35 Darcidride joined #minetest
19:35 Xeprione btw, TheWild (you sent the 95 gif, right?), that's pretty awful :D
19:36 Xeprione like, from windows to let that happen :D
19:36 Xeprione i mean microsoft
19:39 Xeprione gonna go to sleep soon
19:39 Xeprione like in an hour or two
19:41 Calinou Xeprione, so... give Fedora a try: https://getfedora.org/
19:41 Calinou it is a great developer and power user system
19:41 Calinou up-to-date software, good package manager, many spins
19:42 Xeprione i'll have a look at it... :P
19:43 Shackra joined #minetest
19:44 Xeprione and Calinou can you suggest a (good enough) C and C++ IDE?
19:45 Xeprione as in good enough, i mean something that doesn't need 3 minutes to open
19:45 Xeprione VS2012 opens in 20 seconds
19:46 Jousway joined #minetest
19:47 Xeprione (2.5GB of RAM and a 2C 2.8GHz processor)
19:49 Xeprione not much, but sufficient
19:50 Xeprione is Code::Blocks any good?
19:54 larjona joined #minetest
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19:55 Calinou Code::Blocks is fine, but unmaintained.
19:56 Calinou maybe try Qt Creator, KDevelop
19:56 Calinou or just Atom ;)
19:57 Xeprione never heard of them... i'll have a look
19:58 Xeprione Calinou.filter(ide[], "hasDarkTheme");
19:59 rubenwardy <Xeprione> btw, that feeling when you have the best internet around: http://i.imgur.com/vASzpOZ.png
19:59 rubenwardy lol, only 80Mbps
19:59 rubenwardy oh misreead
20:00 Xeprione 80Mbps = 80 000 000 bits per second = 10 000 000 Bps = 10MBps
20:00 Xeprione wait, what?
20:00 Xeprione omfg
20:00 Xeprione <:'C
20:01 Xeprione ruben, what'ya using, Fibre?
20:01 rubenwardy I get 100 Mbps
20:02 rubenwardy I thought you said 10.8 MB/s = 80 Mbps, but you said KB/s
20:02 Xeprione oh..
20:02 Xeprione anyway, Calinou, for the time being, Atom seems the best right now :P
20:02 rubenwardy I recently moved to a city from rural england, I'm loving the speed
20:02 rubenwardy Atom is cool
20:03 Xeprione and rubenwardy i was trying to be sarcastic :D
20:04 rubenwardy ah, right. Hard to read context over IRC
20:05 larjona left #minetest
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20:07 Xeprione rubenwardy, do you c++? for getters, should i use camel-case or lower-case with underscores?
20:07 comradmax i had 10MB/s down at last apt
20:07 Xeprione like getX() or get_x()?
20:07 comradmax only 2MB/s down now :(
20:09 Xeprione not sure if lag, or ya'll type really fast :D
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20:18 comradmax years of pro python dev turned me into camelcase hater, looks like .NET even if it's Java
20:18 Xeprione ok :P
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20:22 TheWild node detector for detecting tnt:tnt is definitely safe
20:22 Calinou lowercase with underscores
20:22 Calinou PascalCase for classes
20:22 Calinou this seems to be the standard in C/C++
20:22 Calinou file names could be both really
20:23 TheWild but_Dont_Mix_Them
20:23 Xeprione yeah :D thanks :P
20:27 LazyJ joined #minetest
20:30 TheWild technic should have conveyor belt
20:32 Taoki joined #minetest
20:34 Xeprione any windows users here that want to try out a gay cursor following your cursor? :D
20:40 Xeprione joined #minetest
20:40 Xeprione herro
20:47 superfly joined #minetest
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20:48 bleak_fire_ hi
20:48 bleak_fire_ how do i grant privileges to existing accounts on my server?
20:48 bleak_fire_ apparently i forgot to include "home"
20:49 Xeprione http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/Privileges
20:50 Xeprione or actually, wait
20:50 Xeprione use /grant <player> <privilege>
20:50 Xeprione you're welcome
20:50 bleak_fire_ i mean all players at once
20:51 Xeprione sec
20:51 bleak_fire_ rather than going through each one
20:52 Xeprione does /grant all <privlege> or /grant * <privlege> work?
20:52 Xeprione try it
20:52 Xeprione 'all' should work
20:52 bleak_fire_ player all (or player *) does not exist
20:53 Xeprione then i'm clueless...
20:53 Xeprione sorry... :/
20:53 bleak_fire_ well this will be annoying but...
20:54 Xeprione do you know what /auth_reload does?
20:54 Xeprione does it reload all of the privleges?
20:54 Xeprione if so, then use that and then give the rest the elevated privleges
20:54 Xeprione like the ones for admins etc
20:55 bleak_fire_ it says "reload authentication data"
20:55 Xeprione but what is auth data?
20:55 bleak_fire_ what's in the auth.txt
20:55 Xeprione oh ok
20:55 bleak_fire_ i would imagine
20:55 Xeprione then again, i'm clueless
20:55 Xeprione tried to help but failed. sorry
20:57 bleak_fire_ well i dont have too many players since my server is a few days old
20:57 bleak_fire_ so i'm printing the directory contents and crossing off one by one
20:57 Xeprione oh, well that's good news... kind of...
20:57 Xeprione still sorry you have to do it manually
20:59 Xeprione hey, does anyone else like the Glitch Mob? or is it just me?
21:01 Xeprione man, i'm starting to love c++ :D
21:06 Xeprione man, c++ is fast :O like legit fast :D
21:09 Xeprione well, imma go to sleep
21:09 Xeprione cya guys (and gals) tomorrow
21:09 Xeprione bye! :P
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22:50 nm0i Minetest is probably too good way to learn LUA. I did not want to learn it, now I know it =\
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23:06 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Mgfractal: Independant offset and slice params for mandelbrot and julia bda2f56 http://git.io/vCWBk (2015-10-11T23:59:57+01:00)
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23:27 Fixer having very strange question, is there gravel present in mapgen v7, and where i can find it?
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