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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-07-14

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:09 Xenoth joined #minetest
00:10 crecca is it possible to grow plants like wheat, cotton, etc. underground?
00:10 crecca or does it grow only on air?
00:14 est31 it depends on the light around
00:15 est31 some light sources are strong enough to make it possible to grow underground
00:15 est31 most times you have to place them directly above or next to your plant
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02:05 Routh RealBadAngel: How difficult would it be to add code that adds a logical serial number to trees with spawn_tree()? The thought is to increase mod interoperability for situations like the one outlined here: https://github.com/HybridD​og/treecapitator/issues/2
02:08 est31 I think this is more a question for paramat or hmmmm
02:08 Routh Potential, I was directed to RealBadAngel as he coded spawn_tree() however.
02:08 est31 Routh, go to #minetest-dev
02:09 Routh kk
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02:37 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Minimal: Remove recently added unnecessary nodes b411b6f http://git.io/vmqCg (2015-07-14T03:33:58+01:00)
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02:39 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Add more robust error checking to deSerialize*String routines 6f07f79 http://git.io/vmqWe (2015-07-13T22:38:01-04:00)
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02:41 AndroidKris best background noise for minetest marathon?
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04:47 Soni can we get a diffing "client chunk cache"?
04:48 Soni it'd require a few modifications to the file format, more specifically it'd have to be made append-only
04:48 Soni (or rather, add append-only support)
04:48 VanessaE what would it seek to accomplish?
04:49 VanessaE do you mean diff'ing the data written to the map against what's already there?
04:49 VanessaE (well, against what theoretically could be there if the map were totally virgin)
04:50 Soni I mean playing on dial-up
04:51 VanessaE well the data stored on disk is not identical to that which is sent over the network
04:51 Soni instead of having to redownload whole parts of the map every time you reload parts of the map, you'd keep a cache
04:51 VanessaE however,
04:51 Soni when you have the cache, you just send updates instead of the whole thing
04:51 VanessaE there's been some talk of keeping a cache of the map
04:52 VanessaE Wayward:  so when you return, you'll be Abackward_one? ;)
04:52 Soni if it's not worth sending updates (e.g. half the thing was updated) then you resend the whole thing
04:53 Soni (I mean, you /do/ compress the data when sending it, right?)
04:53 VanessaE I don't think it's sent compressed
04:53 VanessaE but if you're using leveldb, the map is stored in a lightly-compressed format at least
04:54 Soni YOU SEND WHOLE RAW CHUNKS OVER THE NETWORK?! D:
04:54 VanessaE I don't know
04:54 VanessaE I didn't write the network code :P
04:54 VanessaE and besides, the engine's not really written with dial-up users in mind
04:54 Soni please tell me you don't send raw chunks
04:55 Soni it's like putting raw images on your webpage
04:55 Soni would take forever to load
04:55 asl97 iirc, the chunks is really light when compare to an image
04:55 Soni how big are minetest chunks?
04:55 VanessaE they're called mapblocks, 16^3 in dimension, I think some 8k in size
04:56 asl97 4096 nodes
04:56 Soni and how many of them do you have to send at once?
04:56 VanessaE one at a time.
04:56 VanessaE only the areas you visit are sent
04:56 VanessaE (plus some surrounding data)
04:57 Soni no way you only send 4096 nodes
04:57 VanessaE yep.
04:57 VanessaE this isn't minecraft
04:57 Soni the area you load is huge
04:57 Soni there's a lot more than 4096 nodes in it
04:57 VanessaE we don't map out whole columns of data
04:57 Soni yeah ik but still
04:57 VanessaE by default only a few mapblocks are put "on the wire" at once
04:57 est31 I have experience with playing on dialup
04:57 VanessaE 8 I think
04:58 est31 it works
04:58 est31 but problem is when too many players are connected to the server
04:58 est31 then their movement coordinate updates take up all the bandwidth
04:58 VanessaE (that's 8 blocks for all users at once, and it can be turned WAY up if desired)... but your client only needs to receive one mapblock at a time
04:59 VanessaE one mapblock on disk is I think 16 kB, just so you know
04:59 VanessaE but I don't think ALL of the data is sent to the client during map updates
04:59 Soni one at a time, but it needs to request like 20 to be able to draw a reasonable amount of the world
04:59 VanessaE or is it?  I don't remember.
05:00 VanessaE the server decides what to send, not the clienbt
05:00 VanessaE -b
05:00 Soni oh right minetest doesn't have view distance so it takes up all your bandwidth whether you like it or not...
05:01 VanessaE sure it has.
05:01 Soni then the server doesn't decide what to send
05:01 VanessaE yes, it does.
05:01 Soni no it doesn't
05:01 VanessaE the client just decides whether or not to show it.
05:01 Soni then it eats all bandwidth whether you like it or not
05:02 Soni which's pretty damn bad
05:02 VanessaE it only sends roughly what's right in front of you
05:02 VanessaE not the whole map around you.
05:02 Soni assuming you don't cache the bloody chunks and you send them raw
05:03 Soni add a cache and compression
05:03 Soni that should make it playable on a toaster
05:03 VanessaE such should probably be added, yes, but you should upgrade your internet connection to something better than dial-up also :)
05:04 VanessaE the question becomes, if compression-on-the-fly were added, is the CPU load at both ends worth the savings?
05:07 mazal Mornings
05:07 VanessaE hi
05:08 mazal How's everyone today ?
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05:08 VanessaE oh, fair to middling.
05:08 mazal What be middling ?
05:08 Soni we have too much CPU power but too little RAM to go with it, also too little bandwidth usually
05:08 VanessaE "fair to middling" means "it's okay".  like saying "fair to fair" :)
05:09 mazal Good good :)
05:09 VanessaE too little RAM??
05:09 VanessaE um.....
05:09 Soni CPU power is not the bottleneck
05:09 * VanessaE looks at the 16GB in her PC, and the 24GB on her public server
05:09 Soni well my iPod runs out of RAM every time I open something
05:09 VanessaE iPod is not the state of the art in regular computing :P
05:09 Soni but when it's not running out of RAM, it's pretty fast
05:10 VanessaE you have to consider the server end.
05:10 Soni the thing is most things are badly designed
05:11 Soni what about the server?
05:11 VanessaE imagine a server churning through a 40-50 user server instance, trying to run compression on all that data.
05:11 VanessaE that's 50 outgoing compressed streams
05:11 Soni add cache
05:11 VanessaE won't help on a busy server.
05:11 Soni bandwidth is expensive, even compressed data takes quite a bit of bandwidth
05:11 VanessaE mapblocks will change so much that a cache at the client end is useless.
05:12 Soni THAT'S WHAT THE "DIFFING" PART IS FOR!
05:12 Soni meh
05:12 Soni re-read what I said
05:12 VanessaE ...
05:12 Soni the WHOLE convo
05:12 Soni and try putting the pieces together on your own this time
05:13 VanessaE why don'y you just go over to #minetest-dev and discuss this with the core devs.
05:13 asl97 so the client upload the mapcache and server do the diff?  how is that better?
05:13 asl97 what if client upload bad data?
05:13 Soni the client sends a SHA1
05:14 Soni the server calculates SHA1s from append-only data
05:14 Soni if it can find a match, it sends the diffs
05:14 Soni else it just re-sends the whole thing
05:15 Soni just like how browsers do caches
05:15 asl97 then it need to keep all changes?
05:15 Soni not necessarily *all* changes
05:15 asl97 map size is already pretty bloated
05:15 Soni it could be set to keep only a few
05:16 Soni well then compress the bloody things >.>
05:16 asl97 it's already compress on the server side and some are over 10gb
05:16 Soni empty chunks could be only a few bytes in size
05:16 Soni (I mean air chunks, ofc)
05:16 Soni meh I should write my own sandbox game :/
05:17 asl97 how many people build in the sky?
05:17 VanessaE like I said
05:17 asl97 few iirc
05:17 VanessaE go over to #minetest-dev and discuss it with the core devs
05:17 VanessaE meanwhile, look at this:  http://digitalaudioconcepts.com/va​nessa/hobbies/minetest/stats.html
05:17 asl97 most people dig down and travel outwards, not upwards
05:17 Soni I'll go talk to someone I'm paying
05:18 VanessaE that's a very active server (suddenly the most popular among the public list)
05:18 Soni asl97, then optimize that case
05:18 VanessaE oh I see, so you'd rather bitch at the community channel than to talk to the devs who could actually DO something with your data?
05:18 VanessaE s/data/suggestions/
05:18 asl97 how would you propose it be optimize?
05:18 Soni bigger chunks
05:19 asl97 slower mapgen
05:19 Soni more data = higher compression
05:19 VanessaE aren't *mapblocks* already headerless anyway?
05:19 asl97 less data = faster read and write
05:20 Soni 2 files with "00 00 00 00" would compress to the same thing, but 1 file with "00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00" would compress much smaller than the 2 files
05:20 asl97 and more dupe hit
05:20 VanessaE more data does not lead to better compression in all cases, particularly if the data is not repetitive between neighboring (in the stream) mapblocks.
05:20 asl97 some of the database is able to dedupe iirc
05:20 Soni hmm
05:21 VanessaE asl97: redis I think does that.
05:21 Soni well, store IDs first, then metadata
05:21 VanessaE leveldb compressed.
05:21 VanessaE compresses*
05:21 Soni or build hashes of every chunk
05:21 VanessaE Soni: did you even bother to look at the link I pasted?
05:22 Soni chunks that happen to be the same hash to the same thing
05:22 VanessaE MAPBLOCKS
05:22 Soni so you only store it once
05:22 VanessaE not chunks
05:22 Soni I call them chunk
05:22 VanessaE they're not chunks.
05:22 VanessaE this is not minecraft.
05:22 Soni they're technically called mapblocks
05:22 Soni as long as you can understand what I'm saying it's all that matters
05:22 VanessaE we have a concept of a chunk also, but that's a 5x5x5 mapblock region
05:23 Soni (it's like me speaking in portuguese and you understanding what I'm saying)
05:23 VanessaE and is mostly meaningful only during mapgen
05:23 asl97 hash collision
05:23 Soni asl97, use a hashtable
05:23 Soni and a proper hash function
05:24 asl97 if different map block have the same hash but different content then would it get overriden which would be bad
05:25 Soni a hashtable is designed to deal with that
05:26 VanessaE I'll say it one last time, and then I pull out the steel-toed boots.
05:26 VanessaE GO OVER TO #minetest-dev and discuss it there!
05:27 VanessaE this channel is the general community channel and there are not usually any core devs here that can do anything with your comments.
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05:27 Soni well it's not off-topic
05:28 est31 first, we call them chunks
05:28 VanessaE it's not off-topic but it's useless discussion if none of here can do much with it.
05:28 est31 second, a hashtable is stupud
05:28 est31 stupid*
05:28 swift110-phone Hmm
05:29 est31 at least for 16x16x16 sizes
05:29 swift110-phone What makes minetest different from minecraft
05:29 est31 yes agreed, it might make sense to compress mapblocks together
05:29 est31 not one by one
05:29 est31 swift110-phone, lotsa things
05:29 est31 first its free as in freedom
05:30 Soni ok so
05:30 VanessaE swift110-phone: it's an entirely independent project written in C++ (as opposed to Java), with game content written mostly in Lua (instead of Java, again).  It shares only rudimentary similarity to Minecraft.  Does not share ANY media or other assets.  Open source versus closed source.
05:30 Soni "hot chunks" and "cold chunks"
05:30 est31 also, we have a different network
05:30 Soni "hot chunks" are stored on the filesystem
05:30 asl97 est31: wouldn't that slow down read and write speed since it need to read them all?
05:30 est31 Soni, chunks are only used for mapgen
05:30 Soni "cold chunks" are stored on a .tar.gz or something
05:30 Soni est31, just let me call them whatever I want
05:31 VanessaE swift110-phone: there's about as much similarity between MC and MT as there is between, say, Lynx or Links, and Firefox.
05:31 Soni anyway, that way we get the both of best worlds
05:31 Soni fast access when we need it, good compression when we need it
05:31 asl97 Soni: they are store inside a DATABASE, it's the database job to compress it
05:31 est31 minecraft is internet exploder, minetest is firefox !
05:31 swift110-phone Thats cool
05:31 VanessaE est31: I prefer chrome.  firefox sucks :)
05:31 swift110-phone What are its requirements
05:32 Soni est31, chromium (RAM/HDD/CPU hog) would be more accurate
05:32 swift110-phone I use Firefox or duckduckgo
05:32 asl97 this is off topic
05:32 Soni especially because minetest uses LuaJIT with Lua/C API
05:32 Soni (instead of a proper C API + FFI bindings)
05:33 VanessaE we use Lua because asking people to compile their mods is insane.
05:33 est31 VanessaE, Soni refers to something we had a heated discussion about in SN's "bump lua version" PR
05:33 VanessaE oh
05:34 Soni I never said anything about compiling mods
05:34 est31 he wants us to write the lua glue code into .lua files, not .c files anymore, so that luajit can look into the implementation
05:34 Soni just having a C API, and then making Lua-- ugh
05:34 Soni est31, they*
05:34 Soni please
05:34 VanessaE ...
05:34 Soni thanks
05:35 Soni anyway as I was saying
05:35 est31 Soni, we do have a c api
05:35 Soni I never said anything about compiling mods, just having a C API, then making Lua/C API bindings, and also LuaJIT FFI bindings
05:35 est31 just we currently do have a common lua context
05:35 Soni when running LuaJIT, load the FFI bindings
05:35 asl97 est31: not that long ago, someone say the c api is gone, isn't it gone?
05:35 Soni when running plain old Lua, load the Lua/C API bindings
05:35 est31 not that kind of a c api
05:36 est31 its more a c++ api
05:36 est31 "api"
05:36 Soni (then it'd be too fast under LuaJIT)
05:37 est31 Soni, I'm still missing your examples how to do it
05:37 est31 also, i doubt there is much speed advantage in it
05:37 Soni say you have function int foo(int a, int b);
05:38 swift110-phone O
05:38 Soni for the Lua/C API bindings, you just write int lua_foo(lua_State *L); or something
05:39 Soni and make a call to foo and send the result back to Lua
05:39 Soni for the LuaJIT FFI bindings you just ffi.cdef[[int foo(int a, int b);]]
05:39 Soni then you can use ffi.C.foo
05:40 Soni (do the value validation in Lua with a wrapper function)
05:40 Soni LuaJIT FFI can be a bit more flexible than Lua/C API
05:40 Soni as, you know, you don't have to recompile for the FFI
05:40 Soni you do have to recompile the Lua/C API bindings tho
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06:43 haaaaa Is there a problem with my syntax here, I am getting "unexpected symbol near 18.6"
06:43 haaaaa local damage = player:get_hp() - 18.6 / (1 + 18.5 * math.pow(e, -0.085 * agingPeople[playerName].cancerDuration))
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07:11 yang2003 How to make a server?
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07:33 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Increase limit of serialized long strings 515e702 http://git.io/vmmcA (2015-07-14T03:22:16-04:00)
07:33 MinetestBot [git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Remove raw message output on AOM deserialization failure 5006ce8 http://git.io/vmmcx (2015-07-13T23:29:29-04:00)
07:34 ThatGraemeGuy yang2003: there are guides on https://forum.minetest.net
07:34 yang2003 Thanks
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07:42 Amaz Is it possible to have randomly selected background images on the menu?
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08:02 haaaaa can pointed thing return a  player?
08:06 sfan5 yes
08:06 O_o^ to badd command
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08:44 haaaaa sfan5 how?
08:44 haaaaa how to get said player's name
08:45 sfan5 obj:get_player_name()
08:46 haaaaa how to check if it is a player?
08:46 sfan5 obj:is_player() i think
08:46 sfan5 not sure
08:46 sfan5 look into lua_api.txt
08:47 sfan5 !apt
08:47 sfan5 !api
08:47 sfan5 MinetestBot pls
08:47 Amaz https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2454
08:47 haaaaa thankyou
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08:56 rubenwardy !server minetest.rubenwardy.com
08:56 MinetestBot rubenwardy: No results
08:56 rubenwardy !up minetest.rubenwardy.com
08:56 MinetestBot minetest.rubenwardy.com:30000 is up (13ms)
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09:07 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Pandemonium Day! 😃
09:07 haaaaa this line is crashing minetest, am I implementing incorrectly?
09:07 haaaaa if pointed_thing:is_player() then
09:08 Krock -> pointed_thing
09:08 Krock > thing
09:09 Krock Is a player a thing?
09:09 asl97 https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L904
09:09 Krock haaaaa, see https://github.com/minetest/minetes​t/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L904
09:09 asl97 xD
09:09 Krock nuh, I got ninja'd
09:10 haaaaa I made check for type object
09:10 haaaaa if pointed_thing.type == "object" then
09:12 asl97 haaaaa: the object is in ref, pointed_thing is just a table
09:12 haaaaa oh, thank you asl97
09:13 Krock rubenwardy, was there a bug in /team ?
09:14 rubenwardy I just reset the CTF state
09:14 rubenwardy so all teams were cleared
09:14 rubenwardy but it should work now
09:14 rubenwardy oh, I've been disconnected
09:15 rubenwardy step(float): A fatal error occurred: ...mes/capturetheflag/mods/cap​turetheflag/ctf/teams.lua:78: attempt to concatenate local 'name' (a nil value)
09:16 rubenwardy ah, it's trying to create a new player called nil
09:17 Krock "nil joined red team"
09:17 asl97 lol
09:18 rubenwardy Well, at least my VPS is working fine...
09:19 rubenwardy It's because I did the chat command /team join krock red
09:19 rubenwardy and it uses an outdated, broken function
09:26 rubenwardy The kind of gameplay I want with Flash CTF is short 10 minute matches. The first minute is build defences, resources should be richer.
09:26 rubenwardy The Firearms mod breaks on me though
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09:35 rubenwardy https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?p=184417#p184417
09:45 asl97 i am guessing some other mod is overriding the variable, this is why people should store variable in their mod name spaces
09:45 asl97 maybe do a grep
09:45 rubenwardy Reading the #minetest-dev logs is so time consuming
09:45 rubenwardy It's a local variable so shouldn't be overridden
09:46 asl97 run this in the directory to check, just in case, `grep DB_FILE -r .`
09:47 rubenwardy ./firearmslib/pureluaentity.lua:local DB_FILE = minetest.get_worldpath().."/ple.list"
09:47 rubenwardy ./firearmslib/pureluaentity.lua:local f, e = io.open(DB_FILE, "w")
09:47 rubenwardy ./firearmslib/pureluaentity.lua:local f, e = io.open(DB_FILE)
09:47 asl97 it would read all the file in the directory and walk into the sub-directory looking for DB_FILE
09:47 rubenwardy Yeah, I know how grep works :P
09:47 asl97 in the mod directory
09:48 rubenwardy same
09:48 rubenwardy I even included games/ and builtin/
09:48 rubenwardy grep | sed is the best programmers tool XD
09:48 rubenwardy well, apart from a compiler maybe
09:49 rubenwardy and a code editor
09:49 rubenwardy and a debug
09:49 rubenwardy er
09:49 rubenwardy Let's just say it's a good tool
09:50 rubenwardy As the variable in pureluaentity.lua is local, even if there was a global of the same name it wouldn't override it
09:50 rubenwardy it would just use the local variable in the ple file
09:51 asl97 you could always print it to check
09:58 asl97 for some reason, it is turning into an function, there isn't really any spot where it could bug up though, i would put `print(DB_FILE)` after defining, before calling load and in load just to check and make sure nothing weird happen in between those code
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10:01 rubenwardy the value is "/home/ruben/minetest/bin/​../worlds/world/ple.list"
10:02 rubenwardy that was printed just before the load
10:03 rubenwardy maybe I'm not using LuaJIT?
10:03 rubenwardy -- LuaJIT not found, using bundled Lua
10:03 rubenwardy hmmmm
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10:06 rubenwardy libluajit-5.1-2 or libluajit-5.1-dev
10:06 asl97 did it print `[pureluaentity] Loading DB...` twice?
10:09 rubenwardy yes
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10:12 asl97 hmmm... this is weird.  if it print that in load as well then it's must be cause of the cosmic rays
10:12 asl97 `that` as in `/home/ruben/minetest/bin/​../worlds/world/ple.list`
10:15 rubenwardy okay, still happens with LuaJIT
10:15 rubenwardy ruben@Droplet1:~/minetest/worlds/world$ ls
10:15 rubenwardy env_meta.txt  force_loaded.txt  ipban.txt  map_meta.txt  map.sqlite  players  world.mt
10:16 rubenwardy ruben@Droplet1:~/minetest/worlds/world$ ችችድድድድድድድድደሺት
10:16 rubenwardy wtf?
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10:16 asl97 cosmic rays O_O
10:17 asl97 try a reboot... maybe....
10:18 rubenwardy nope
10:18 rubenwardy would like to try accessing my VPS?
10:19 asl97 not really, i don't want to be blame for breaking anything
10:20 rubenwardy I won't give you sudo and I'll create a new user
10:22 asl97 i doubt i would be much help,  the people in dev might know about this
10:23 rubenwardy Hmmmm
10:23 rubenwardy It's very weird
10:24 rubenwardy I've got other things to do, I'll just disable it for now
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10:26 rubenwardy It looks like the problem is in io.open
10:26 rubenwardy a lua bug
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10:40 rubenwardy all this time I've been doing grep -r -nr
10:40 rubenwardy when it should just be grep -nr as the -r is superflous
10:48 asl97 Calinou: some chest at spawn disappear as well as a ladder
10:49 asl97 well, i only notice just one chest
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10:58 Calinou probably modified clients digging them
10:58 Calinou ladders can be crafted, need to remove the recipe in More Blocks
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11:08 asl97 i mean a ladder in the lobby disappear
11:12 asl97 i would suggest an afk mod to be added since it make it impossible for playing player to start as soon as possible due to the amount of vote needed or at least make the vote system exclude afk players, i suppose it can be figure out by checking if the player move at all during a match
11:12 Calinou yeah, I'll add afk kick mod soon
11:12 Calinou will set to 5 minutes of inactivity
11:13 est31 in chat or in actions like movement
11:13 Calinou both probably
11:13 Calinou either you must chat, or move in 5 minutes
11:14 rubenwardy the capturetheflag subgame is so old that grep "minetest.env" * -rn returns about 20 results
11:14 * Calinou switched his site to use Grunt and Stylus
11:16 rubenwardy https://github.com/rubenwardy/capturetheflag/c​ommit/9f12a17ef29da534aac2168217398e501a020d6a
11:16 rubenwardy XD
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11:17 asl97 Calinou: i suddenly drop from the lobby :|
11:18 asl97 i am falling :|
11:20 rubenwardy Why do I get 2015-07-14 12:18:05: ERROR[main]: Client::getMesh(): Mesh not found: "stairs_stair.obj"
11:20 rubenwardy when there is /home/rubenwardy/dev/minetest/games/capture​theflag/mods/stairs/models/stairs_stair.obj
11:23 rubenwardy !up minetest.rubenwardy.com
11:23 MinetestBot minetest.rubenwardy.com:30000 is up (8ms)
11:23 rubenwardy nevermind
11:29 rubenwardy !up minetest.rubenwardy.com
11:29 MinetestBot minetest.rubenwardy.com:30000 is up (9ms)
11:29 rubenwardy There we are
11:29 rubenwardy Krock: I've fixed the flag delete bug (hopefully)
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11:36 asl97 Calinou: hmmm, once i figure it out, it was easy.  (the parkour)
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11:46 Calinou it really is :)
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12:02 rubenwardy I just keep finding more and more bugs - it's back online now
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12:25 rubenwardy asl97, what even: https://gist.github.com/rube​nwardy/863ac7642b28fe995d40
12:26 asl97 error in your mod, maybe
12:26 rubenwardy But no useful error message
12:27 rubenwardy actually line 1 is
12:27 rubenwardy I see
12:28 asl97 player not define?
12:28 rubenwardy can you see the problem? https://github.com/rubenwardy/captu​retheflag/blob/flash/mods/captureth​eflag/ctf_flag/flag_func.lua#L113
12:28 rubenwardy I refactored code and forgot add local name = clicker:get_player_name()
12:29 asl97 line 105 use clicker
12:29 rubenwardy I really should make unit tests
12:35 asl97 isn't unit tests impossible for mods?
12:36 rubenwardy It would have to be done at run time
12:36 rubenwardy It's just Lua code
12:36 rubenwardy The majority of the code doesn't interact with the map
12:36 rubenwardy so it should be fine
12:37 asl97 but doesn't it use object and other stuff?  wouldn't that mean you have to dummy them?
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12:37 rubenwardy object = entity?
12:37 asl97 players + maybe entity
12:38 rubenwardy Hmmmm
12:38 rubenwardy oops
12:38 rubenwardy You wouldn't be able to unit test everything
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12:39 rubenwardy I'd only do the ctf_core - adding to teams, etc.
12:39 rubenwardy Server's back up
12:39 rubenwardy bug fixed, and the on_punch thing added
12:39 asl97 oh turret
12:40 rubenwardy ctf_turret is so broken and laggy :P
12:40 rubenwardy what's the best way to make a large barrier? I want to make it so that for the first 60 seconds of a match, players can't attack each other
12:40 asl97 there is another turrent that was use on landrush
12:40 rubenwardy Lua entity?
12:41 asl97 just disable damage
12:41 rubenwardy the turret is auto firing - is the landrush one the same?
12:41 asl97 yea
12:41 asl97 https://github.com/Bremaweb/turrets
12:41 asl97 another old mod
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12:42 rubenwardy I just don't want them going into the other player's territory at all. Can I disable damage between two players dynamically? Ie: for friendly fire:
12:42 asl97 from the look of the code, it doesn't seem much better....
12:42 rubenwardy I want to utilise firearms eventually
12:42 rubenwardy so no entities
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12:44 asl97 rubenwardy: (replying about friendly fire):  maybe with the new on_damage function? (or whatever it is call)
12:44 rubenwardy It doesn't say who it's from
12:44 rubenwardy if you mean on_hpchange
12:45 rubenwardy the name tags colors are awesome - makes it much easier to see teams
12:46 asl97 i find the walk speed a little slow (mostly cause most ctp is fast pace)
12:47 H-H-H how long is a minetest day?
12:49 asl97 did it crash?
12:49 rubenwardy yeah
12:49 asl97 i just crafted a furnace, it couldn't be me...
12:49 asl97 H-H-H: it depend on your setting
12:50 asl97 well, the server settings
12:50 rubenwardy it was "LazerMan"
12:51 asl97 iirc, furnace can't be dug if there is item in them making them good for protecting the flag
12:51 H-H-H its whatever is set as default which after reading the wiki seems 72
12:53 MinetestBot [git] RealBadAngel -> minetest/minetest_game: Better default stone normalmap, sharpened a bit 2ddbf68 http://git.io/vmOmh (2015-07-14T14:53:13+02:00)
12:53 rubenwardy asl97: https://github.com/rubenwardy/capturetheflag/c​ommit/774e318e1d7284ca2388652782a6c433639464f2
12:53 rubenwardy I was a silly programmer
12:54 asl97 oh lol, the missing to_number bug
12:55 rubenwardy I also realised that if a player exits the game, they take the flag with them...
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13:06 * H-H-H is waiting to see if his wood rotting mod works
13:07 asl97 H-H-H: is it available for all?
13:09 H-H-H its a mish mash of several i found on wiki lol but yeah it will be eventually it rotts food aswell and im contemplaating adding it so that crops can rot to
13:13 asl97 i mean will the source of the mod be release
13:14 rubenwardy okay, that bug is now fixed asl97. Now I'm just waiting for the next one, lol.
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13:28 H-H-H yeah it will
13:30 rubenwardy hmmm, how could we make a cool down respawn timer?
13:31 asl97 see hunger game
13:31 SopaXorzTaker joined #minetest
13:32 rubenwardy ah
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13:37 asl97 crash?
13:37 rubenwardy yay! next bug
13:37 rubenwardy void Server::step(float): A fatal error occurred: ..../games/capturetheflag/mods/c​apturetheflag/ctf/teams.lua:26: attempt to concatenate local 'name' (a nil value)
13:37 rubenwardy At least I can push my small fixes as well, now
13:40 rubenwardy Basically it crashed on printing an error that team nil does not exist
13:40 rubenwardy * warning
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14:04 SopaXorzTaker Can I message some Minecraft offtopic?
14:06 rubenwardy There's a #minecraft channel
14:06 rubenwardy If that's what you'd like
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14:14 SopaXorzTaker Oh, ok.
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14:34 rubenwardy When you type "make -j3" as your password, on impulse.
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14:48 rubenwardy <rubenwardy> If that's what you'd like
14:48 rubenwardy I mean't "if that's the sort of thing you wanted"
14:48 rubenwardy SopaXorzTaker
14:48 rubenwardy I wasn't hating MC
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15:39 rubenwardy Is it me, or do the majority of players go around clicking and rightclicking randomly?
15:42 VanessaE_ yep
15:42 VanessaE_ or timing out.  a lot.
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15:45 rubenwardy I'm running a flash capturetheflag server
15:45 rubenwardy Every time a team wins, the game is reset
15:45 rubenwardy but nobodies doing anything other than wondering around aimlessly
15:45 rubenwardy flash as in fast, not the software
15:46 rubenwardy people are actually mining, lol
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15:49 rubenwardy https://cdn.pbrd.co/images/1XhzE0dJ.png
15:49 rubenwardy seriously, that's the wrong flag you're guarding
15:49 VanessaE_ heh
15:50 Calinou https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=9&amp;t=12720&amp;p=184419#p184419
15:50 Calinou this should be put in default game in some way...
15:50 rubenwardy Do with have colored chat yet?
15:50 rubenwardy *we
15:50 Calinou nope, the PR was never merged...
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15:52 rubenwardy I think it was into 0.5, then 0.5 was dropped
15:53 nrzkt i forget sth ?
15:54 rubenwardy probably to fix your bugs
15:54 rubenwardy :P
15:54 rubenwardy the problem is that color chat spams older clients with numbers
15:55 rubenwardy like, 04<rubenwardy>07sdlmsdlmsdlmsdlmsd00
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16:00 yaman how to tell what item is in player hand?
16:01 nrzkt my bugs ?
16:01 nrzkt wtf i haven't commit since a long time :)
16:01 yaman nvm
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16:28 crazyR rubenwardy if thats the case wouldnt a client version check be the right way to deal with it. send it in 2 diffrent formats. old format and new format??
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16:35 rubenwardy probably
16:35 MinetestBot [git] nerzhul -> minetest/minetest: connection.cpp: remove unused constructor 8ac0cf5 http://git.io/vm35j (2015-07-14T18:33:20+02:00)
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16:59 TBC_x anyone else using st & tmux?
17:03 MinetestBot [git] kahrl -> minetest/minetest: Make serialization error message translatable b30e8d8 http://git.io/vmsfq (2015-07-14T19:01:33+02:00)
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17:18 rubenwardy Do we have anything like this in MT?
17:18 rubenwardy http://lua-users.org/wiki/SortedIteration
17:21 Calinou I keep reminding myself that More Blocks slopes are awesome
17:21 Calinou they let you build so much more stuff
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17:29 AndroidKris Is it possible to remove a shadowed area caused by a lightning glitch? My crops aren't getting light to grow, and I don't want to rearrange my entire farm for one small area of bad lighting.
17:29 Calinou possible, but difficult
17:29 Calinou you can use maptools:lightbulb for invisible light-emitting nodes
17:31 twoelk|2 there is also the mapfix mod
17:31 AndroidKris I can't use...say worldedit, to select the affected area (3 dimensional space) and replace the nodes with air? then just rebuild what it removes
17:31 AndroidKris link to mapfix mod twoelk|2
17:31 AndroidKris ??
17:32 twoelk|2 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=10662
17:32 AndroidKris gracias
17:33 AndroidKris I think I'll give it a try.
17:33 AndroidKris git syncing now.
17:34 AndroidKris Or rather, cloning, not syncing. two different things.
17:34 AndroidKris lol
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17:34 twoelk mapfix works nice on singleplayer but may freeze a server if used wrong
17:35 AndroidKris Good thing I don't host any servers.haha
17:39 Tux[Qyou] joined #minetest
17:39 twoelk actually I'm using it on a server just now ;-P
17:39 Krock AndroidKris, hint: !mod [modname]
17:40 Krock tells you the forum link
17:45 AndroidKris nice. Thanks for the hint Krock
17:45 AndroidKris !mod mapfix
17:45 MinetestBot AndroidKris: Map Fixer [mapfix] by Gael de Sailly - https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=10662
17:45 AndroidKris sweet.
17:45 AndroidKris Had to test it out to make sure i got it right.
17:47 AndroidKris AWESOME. Thanks twoelk, worked perfectly. This mod's a keeper
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18:21 wischi2 hi guys. is it possible to disable nodes/items for players without patching them out of the mod? Some mods offer settings to do so, but many do not. is it possible anyway? tried to overwrite the node_register and hook node_register (and block unwanted nodes/items) but this does not seem very elegant. is there a better way to achieve that? thx in advance
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18:26 RealBadAngel wischi2, you can override definitions
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18:28 wischi2 i know, but this do not "unregister" crafting recipes. is there a way to override/unreg them?
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18:29 RealBadAngel im not sure, there was a pr with such thingy
18:30 AndroidKris most realistic texture pack?
18:30 AndroidKris suggestions
18:30 RealBadAngel 16px + normals ;)
18:31 RealBadAngel jokin, but it starts to look real good imho
18:31 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/6dq_0kzJKBY6.png
18:32 Routh I like that RBA
18:32 RealBadAngel but this is not texture pack, this is how default game will look like
18:32 wischi2 @RealBadAngel: thanks. BTW saw some of your minetest(_game) and mod contributions. great work ;-)
18:32 Routh Yeah I've been following that.  I like it.
18:33 AndroidKris How about the trees, grass and water RealBadAngel?
18:33 AndroidKris that brick looks amazing though.
18:33 RealBadAngel AndroidKris, you can try HDX or Haven
18:34 RealBadAngel HDX is usually up to date with everything around, its made by VanessaE
18:34 RealBadAngel im responsible for Haven, but dont have time to maintain it
18:34 AndroidKris I'm on hdx 128 now. looks good, but I'm looking for something with more super realism...I think thats how it's described.
18:35 RealBadAngel AndroidKris, when relief mapping is in, i will update Haven with proper normalmaps
18:35 RealBadAngel but honestly, idk when
18:36 AndroidKris What was the one in the screen shot you linked?
18:36 AndroidKris 16px?
18:36 sfan5 RealBadAngel: great work for the desert cobble
18:36 RealBadAngel AndroidKris, in the screenshot you can see default 16x16 textures
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18:37 AndroidKris I think I'll just brows the forums and look at the ones you suggested. (aside from hdx, which I'm already using. hehe)
18:38 * twoelk wonders wether there could be similar versions for clay like brick and cobble, maybe tiles and terazzo?
18:39 RealBadAngel sfan5, thx, i will make a pr with it soon
18:39 RealBadAngel twoelk, im doing the maps one by one.
18:40 RealBadAngel theyre not automated, heightmaps are done by hand
18:40 twoelk sounds like work
18:40 RealBadAngel but effects are far better than autogen, dont you think so?
18:41 RealBadAngel old, poor default game starts to look modern and eye candy :)
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18:42 * twoelk puts on his cool sunglasses to not get dazed by RBA's radiant sparkletest
18:49 RealBadAngel twoelk, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2LTL8KgKv8
18:49 wischi2 ;-)
18:55 twoelk oh dear, I remember dancing to that in some weird places in some obscure towns ;-P
19:07 RealBadAngel well, gravel seems to be done i think...
19:07 RealBadAngel https://imgrush.com/ax5ssmI-0yu2.png
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19:11 Krock RealBadAngel, that looks great :)
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19:30 Routh How do we deal with mod name conflicts?
19:31 Routh Water_mobs and programmable turtles have a name conflict.
19:31 Krock rename one
19:31 Routh I don't develop either of them
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19:48 Routh Anyone here used paramats moonrealm
19:48 Routh ?
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20:00 Testman hey est
20:05 est31 hey testman
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20:24 Testman can the admin of lord of the test lift the ban on my user?
20:25 Testman it said one hour but its bast that
20:25 Calinou Testman, ask on the forum topic of the server
20:25 Calinou we can't lift bans on other people's servers
20:25 Calinou (don't create a new forum topic either)
20:26 Routh Alternatively you could try #lordofthetest
20:26 Fritigern joined #minetest
20:26 Testman but i don't have an acount
20:27 Testman yeah i tried lordofthetest
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20:32 zat http://ibin.co/28djqg5QcvLl :D !
20:33 Krock I'd say eeks but I think you like that
20:33 zat ever tried those?
20:33 Krock shells?
20:33 zat yes
20:34 Krock To be honest.. not yet
20:35 zat that eeks is out of context then lol
20:37 Krock Yeah kinda.. I prefer to say eeks instead of trying it :P
20:37 zat you should try it before eek
20:38 zat that applies to absolutely everything
20:42 * Krock looks dubiously at the message above
20:42 zat thrat includres evren Krocks.
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21:05 Amaz The dev wiki seems to be down... I'm getting a 502 Bad Gateway
21:05 Amaz +error when trying to open it
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