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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-07-09

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Time Nick Message
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00:16 guy hello
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00:27 LinuxGuy2020 When on the server tab, press configure, what do the items in blue indicate? Are they missing dependencies or something?
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00:40 est31 I think they are game mods
00:40 est31 you cant modify on them I think
00:40 est31 yup
00:40 est31 you cant
00:41 asl97 you can override them though
00:41 LinuxGuy2020 k thank you
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00:49 Thenextlevel hey does any one here know the ethic rush irc
00:52 asl97 crazyR: ^
00:53 Thenextlevel oh crazy is here aswell
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01:51 Sokomine hm
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01:52 bb94 Nadenva, navo
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02:44 arsdragonfly the advanced_market mod has been updated with a few tweaks and fixes, check it out https://github.com/arsdragonfly/advanced_market
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03:02 sloantothebone What would I do if I wanted to add a hundred different types of nodes without defining every single one by hand?
03:03 sloantothebone Hello?
03:05 OldCoder Hi
03:05 OldCoder You would write
03:05 OldCoder a script to generate that code sloantothebone
03:05 OldCoder In your favorite script language
03:06 OldCoder Such as Perl or Python; maybe shell
03:06 sloantothebone Umm, I think I just found out that the Beds mod generates bed nodes in several different colors
03:09 sloantothebone ...
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03:12 sloantothebone Hi Higgs_Bonbon
03:13 sloantothebone https://github.com/PilzAdam​/beds/blob/master/init.lua
03:13 bb94 RED BED!
03:14 sloantothebone Naw white bed
03:14 * sloantothebone is too cheap to use dye
03:14 bb94 Naw RED BED
03:14 bb94 I will make all my beds red
03:14 * sloantothebone snuggles in soft white sheets
03:15 sloantothebone This is america, I have the freedom to use any color bed I want
03:16 bb94 Why the heck is there no Ran bed
03:16 sloantothebone BUT the point is that the bed nodes are generated by only a few lines of code and a value, you could potentially generate a hundred different nodes using math
03:17 Higgs_Bonbon So I'm having this same discussion over on #minecraftforge, and my moronic-self decided to go with making a super complex geology system. Sloantothebone is trying to convince me to switch to this game, which I've been aware of for years but never picked up due to a poor adoption rate.
03:17 Higgs_Bonbon http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mappi​ng-and-modding/minecraft-mods/wip-mods/246​4011-prealpha-bonbons-big-boulder-overhaul
03:19 bb94 Well
03:19 bb94 Better sleep in the Yukari bed
03:19 sloantothebone Hmm splitting blocks
03:20 sloantothebone Ok I've seen multiple items mined out of a block and I've seen microblocks, so I'd say that is also possible
03:21 Sokomine what's a "ran bed"?
03:21 bb94
03:21 sloantothebone typo of red?
03:21 bb94 No
03:21 sloantothebone Oh chinese beds?
03:21 sloantothebone Ran and yukari, hmmm
03:21 bb94 http://jisho.org/search/%E8%97%8D
03:22 Higgs_Bonbon Like, does that ore ratio system I'm describing make sense? A base stone type which wouldn't need extra data, but for ore it would use say granite, and subtract x/16 units out of the bl;ock, so you get a bit of ore and a bit of stone in the same block yeah?
03:22 bb94 There are already Chen and Yukari beds
03:22 sloantothebone Ik I'll just stick to black that way if I spill something (like water) the stain wont be too bad
03:22 Sokomine Higgs_Bonbon: adaption rate may really be poor. but it's fun, modding is very easy, and it runs very well on a lot of hardware (usually far better on low-end graphics, like smartphones and older hardware). but there are improvements beeing worked on as well
03:22 bb94 Water?
03:22 est31 and its open source!
03:22 bb94 What kind of water are you drinking?
03:23 Sokomine Higgs_Bonbon: let me read your article first, please :-)
03:23 bb94 I already hit the limitations of the API on my first day of modding
03:23 sloantothebone Well lava does more than stain
03:23 Higgs_Bonbon I like that Sokomine, I was primarily concerned about having a safety net of supports so to speak. Like, what's the most complex mod for this game right now?
03:23 est31 Higgs_Bonbon, you can emulate carrying weight by setting speed lower and lower
03:23 sloantothebone Umm
03:23 asl97 Higgs_Bonbon: i say technic
03:24 est31 yea technic
03:24 sloantothebone What about mesecons
03:24 Sokomine uff...i'm working on pretty complex ones myshelf (spawning villages...). mobf is also pretty complex
03:24 bb94 Mesecons is pretty simple IMO
03:24 sloantothebone Vilages? can I test it?
03:24 Higgs_Bonbon Mmhm that was the idea- technic? For minetest?
03:24 bb94 it's based on redstone
03:24 asl97 although it still quite simple when compare to other mods on mc
03:24 sloantothebone Yes technic for minetest
03:24 asl97 technic^
03:24 * Higgs_Bonbon googles
03:25 asl97 the only complex part of mobs is the AI, the other part is fairly simple
03:25 Sokomine stone is heavy? :) i usually point out that we carry thousands of cubic meters of stone in our pockets and that reality went out of the window long ago and hasn't been seen since :-)
03:26 sloantothebone Imo part of the reason minetest mods lack complexity is because of a lack of mod makers, so I thought I'd try to get minecraft mod makers interested in helping us
03:26 Sokomine sloantothebone: it's all on my github page: https://github.com/Sokomine/mg_villages   you'll also want handle_schematics (on which it depends) and probably mobf_trader and my cottages mod
03:26 Sokomine *continuing to read*
03:26 asl97 it cause the api is limited imo
03:27 est31 the api is serverside only
03:27 sloantothebone Yeah I've discussed improving the api with #minetest-dev too
03:27 est31 (currently)
03:28 Sokomine Higgs_Bonbon: hmm. maybe you could replace "mined" stones with partly-mined ones. that might look pretty intresting but would perhaps require some intresting-looking meshes
03:28 sloantothebone Yeah we need a way to say "I want this done client side"
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03:28 sloantothebone in the lua
03:28 bb94 Maybe we should decouple client and server stuff?
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03:28 asl97 there isn't any node animated yet, other than the windmill i saw somewhere
03:28 asl97 animated node*
03:29 est31 I think the windmill does it with entities
03:29 sloantothebone bb94 I dont like the idea of people having to rewrite their mods to client side api
03:29 Higgs_Bonbon That's what I was afraid of, I might get frustrated with the limitations. I KNOW my idea can work on minecraft because there's stuff that's just as complex
03:30 sloantothebone Higgs_Bonbon, I really appreciate you joining us btw
03:30 est31 well you CAN do complex things in minetest, you just can't use certain features
03:30 Higgs_Bonbon Thanks, I appreciate your invitation
03:30 bb94 sloantothebone Just put it in 0.5
03:30 exio4 if you find a way to send code over the interwebz in a safe manner...
03:31 Higgs_Bonbon Yeah I need complete control over p much everything. I basically want to use minecraft/test to make my own game. I love making content but I suck at backend stuff.
03:31 Sokomine Higgs_Bonbon: there can only be one block in a given place at a given time. there are ways to circumvent that, but those require the use of nearby blocks. might that be a problem for your use-case? or could you only stack rocks of the same type in one square meter?
03:31 est31 well you can have different block types for every single of those 16 stages
03:32 Higgs_Bonbon I was planning to use entities actually, on break a rock becomes 2-16 entities with varying sizes or weights, you can't just pocket them
03:32 sloantothebone Higgs_Bonbon, you could tell #minetest-dev about your issues with limitations, that is my philosophy I dont program so I bug report, complain, and try to offer constructive criticism
03:32 Sokomine est31: depends on the windmill. mine are flat 2d ones and just animated images. i've seen a more complex, intresting version of wheels, but i didn't have the time yet to check it out
03:32 Higgs_Bonbon so mining would require just as much mucking out
03:32 est31 Higgs_Bonbon, that works
03:33 Sokomine ah, ok. diffrent entities might also be a possibility
03:33 Sokomine too early perhaps to go to #minetest-dev
03:33 Higgs_Bonbon Yeah
03:34 Higgs_Bonbon Block contains rick/mineral data, distributes said data to child entities
03:34 Higgs_Bonbon *rock even
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03:35 Higgs_Bonbon Different textures too for mineral content but I haven't even considered that yet
03:35 Sokomine maybe all that could happen when you break the block
03:35 asl97 entities is just not there yet, it lags and is (bandwidth) heavy (see pipeworks), once client side scripting is done, it should become less laggy
03:35 Higgs_Bonbon I'm just hoping the 1/16 fractions make sense
03:36 est31 the different textures part can be done by registering different node types
03:36 Higgs_Bonbon Yes, but that most likely means making a seperate node type for each ratio of ore, which is entirely what I want to avoid
03:36 Sokomine do you want the player to mine one block 16 times, or to split the block into 16 parts upon mining?
03:37 Higgs_Bonbon 2-16 parts of different sizes all depending on stone type, tool used etc
03:37 est31 Higgs_Bonbon, you can store data with nodes, you only have to have separate nodes for different textures
03:37 Higgs_Bonbon one moment
03:37 bb94 I created a Github issue on changing block appearance based on blockdata by the way
03:37 bb94 Of course, a full-blown client API would be nice
03:38 Higgs_Bonbon http://higgs-bonbon.tumblr.com/post/1​23002397286/i-spent-the-day-autisming
03:38 Higgs_Bonbon Very poorly written thing, goes into more detail I hope
03:38 Higgs_Bonbon with !PICTURES!
03:39 bb94 why the heck are you using autism as a verb
03:39 bb94 This insults me
03:39 Higgs_Bonbon 4chan bruh
03:39 Higgs_Bonbon I'm actually autistic to so /it's okay/
03:39 bb94 Oh
03:39 bb94 so  am U
03:39 bb94 *I
03:39 Higgs_Bonbon kek etc.
03:40 Higgs_Bonbon I like it as a verb though, "overly complex and meticulous"
03:40 Higgs_Bonbon Like yes, I really do care how much azurite is in that rock even if it's just a smidgen
03:40 Sokomine clashing art styles...hmmm...that's a problem minetest certainly has. but that can't be avoided. and anyone who truely dislikes it can always release a nice texture pack :-)
03:41 Higgs_Bonbon Lol yeah, good thing I plan on this being a total conversion. Working with other mods isn't my priority
03:42 Higgs_Bonbon and the ore richness is there fore gameplay reasons, so you might only have a little bit of rich ore but the entire area could be low-grade ore that would take ages to mine
03:42 Sokomine the transportatin part may be difficult
03:42 Higgs_Bonbon *for any reasonable profit
03:42 bb94 Wouldn't even non-ticking tile entities take some extra CPU to iterate over?
03:42 Higgs_Bonbon hence the emphasis on infrastructure
03:42 Higgs_Bonbon yes
03:42 Higgs_Bonbon but that's the only solution I've been able to find
03:43 Higgs_Bonbon I can't use metaIDs because you can't reference more than one value at a time
03:43 bb94 Hmm, wait for blockstates
03:43 Sokomine bb94: depends. if entities get too much, the game does get problems on servers. there's even a limit on the amount of entities that can be stored in one mapblock (16x16x16 nodes each)
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03:43 bb94 I was talking about tile entities
03:43 Sokomine what is a metaid?
03:44 bb94 4 bits of extra data per block
03:44 Sokomine ah. we don't do that that way in minetest
03:44 Higgs_Bonbon metaID is like a nibble of data a block can have. All wood in minecraft is the same block with a different metaID
03:44 bb94 Well until 1.7
03:44 Higgs_Bonbon yeah
03:44 Higgs_Bonbon 1.8 actually
03:44 est31 we do have something like that
03:44 est31 param1 and param2
03:44 bb94 It was 1.7 that added acacia and dark oak
03:44 est31 both 8 bits I think
03:44 Sokomine each block has a name (and an id, but that may vary from game to game). it also has a facedir value and (in some situations) a light value. and it may contain metadata
03:45 est31 param0 is the node's id, 16 bits
03:45 bb94 param1 can store the light level
03:45 est31 yea facedir and light are stored in param1 and 2
03:45 bb94 param2 the facedir
03:45 Sokomine yes, i was taking a look at those blockids and their values. i plan to add an import filter for my handle_schematics mod so that it can import minecraft schematics as well
03:46 Higgs_Bonbon Yeah that's not enough params for what I wanna do sadly
03:46 est31 you can then store strings
03:46 est31 every block can have a string
03:46 Sokomine storing further data about a block works as metadata - same as chests and so on. it's useful and less limited than the minecraft way i think
03:46 Higgs_Bonbon I was thinking I could have split the metaIDs up for different ore ratios with multiple minerals but again, you can only use one at a time
03:46 Higgs_Bonbon Ah
03:47 bb94 Use param2 for the fraction of stone left and store the rest in MT metadata?
03:47 Sokomine you can store strings, int, tables...
03:47 Higgs_Bonbon ohhhhh
03:47 Higgs_Bonbon yes that's better
03:47 bb94 Except API limitations
03:48 Higgs_Bonbon Have a main class or whatever with all minerals, ahve it read them and split them up depending on context
03:48 est31 lua has no classes I think
03:48 est31 or it does
03:48 est31 I'm not sure
03:49 est31 non-ticking entities are entities who don't have physics?
03:49 est31 which*
03:49 bb94 TILE entities
03:49 bb94 which don't tick
03:50 est31 what are tile entities
03:50 sloantothebone http://lua-users.org/wiki/SimpleLuaClasses
03:50 sloantothebone Lua doesnt have classes by default
03:50 sloantothebone but u can define a class
03:50 Higgs_Bonbon They don't send data to the main thread every tick, they ONLY store data without changing
03:50 Higgs_Bonbon that is non-ticking TEs
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03:51 Sokomine hi oldcoder
03:51 sloantothebone Hi oldcoder
03:51 est31 ah I see
03:51 est31 yea you wont need tile entities
03:52 est31 minetest has metadata
03:52 est31 much better
03:52 Higgs_Bonbon Better than Minecraft's?
03:52 sloantothebone Hmm
03:52 Higgs_Bonbon Multiple IDs at a time?
03:52 Higgs_Bonbon Like, quantum IDs? IDK
03:52 Sokomine what are multiple ids at a time?
03:52 est31 as Sokomine said, you have a string.
03:53 est31 you can store everything in it as you want
03:53 est31 what*
03:53 est31 http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modd​ing_book/lua_api.html#node-metadata
03:54 OldCoder hi
03:54 Higgs_Bonbon Ohhhhhhk
03:55 Higgs_Bonbon and soko, multiple IDs at once. Like, imagine if a block could be oak and birch wood at the same time...?
03:55 Higgs_Bonbon something like that
03:56 est31 well, you can store in it what you want
03:56 est31 but one block only has one entry for one key
03:56 Sokomine Higgs_Bonbon: well, i thought that was just minecraft's way of getting around with having fixed id's for blocks and running out of numbers? we don't work by numbers. the node names are all strings.  i.e. "default:stone", "default:wood", "moretrees:oak_trunk" etc
03:56 est31 you can make a second key if you want with different content.
03:56 Higgs_Bonbon Ah, that's great
03:56 est31 yea, node names are strings for us.
03:57 est31 but, internally we do store every node type with a 16 bit id.
03:57 Sokomine you can of course have something like "higgs_heavy_stones:stone1", "higgs_heavy_stones:stone2", "higgs_heavy_stones:granite3bv1" etc
03:57 est31 yup
03:58 bb94 Until you run out of 16 bit IDs
03:58 Sokomine you'll want a new node/block whenever you want a block with a new texture
03:58 est31 well you have 64 000, thats alot
03:58 OldCoder Higgs Bonbon is a play on Higgs Boson
03:58 est31 dreambuilder, a very complex minetest game has only 20 000
03:58 * OldCoder assumes
03:58 Sokomine *nod* vanessae's dreambuilder game has well over 4000 diffrent block types afaik
03:59 Sokomine oh, 20000 by now? :-)
03:59 * OldCoder silvercrab is larger :P
03:59 est31 Sokomine, perhaps only 4000.
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03:59 est31 dunno, perhaps it should be counted
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03:59 Sokomine est31: i think it was more than 4000 when the ids got increased so that more blocks can be stored :-)
03:59 Higgs_Bonbon bluhhhh, that goes back to not wanting to manually code in each different ratio out of 16
04:00 est31 well you can register them in a loop
04:00 Sokomine well, there are loops....
04:00 est31 either way, I suck at explaining the differences between minetest and minecraft, because I don't know minecraft :)
04:00 Sokomine Higgs_Bonbon: when the world is generated...do you intend to decide for each block already what will be inside, or is the type of blocks needed for that more limited? (after all you need textures for each)
04:01 Higgs_Bonbon Nope, decided on world gen. Like, imagine a rich vein, then less rich stone as you radiate outward, until there's none at which point you can just use plain granite with no extra data
04:02 asl97 Higgs_Bonbon: that would be very slow and would cause the world size to explode unless i am wrong
04:02 bb94 est31 the developers of Minecraft actively condone crowdfunding
04:02 est31 ?
04:03 Higgs_Bonbon The richest vein could be a plain block type too but everything inbetween needs to be ratiod
04:03 bb94 That would lead to a lot of edge cases
04:04 bb94 It depends on how much of each extreme there is
04:04 est31 for every different texture you will need a different node type
04:04 Sokomine you could go with a handful of types and then decide in detail when the player mines one
04:04 asl97 est31: well, one main different i notice is that (some) top mc server have big fat rules while mt server doesn't have long rules
04:04 Higgs_Bonbon But Soko, then there's no point to prospect.
04:04 est31 asl97, what does that have to do with crowdfunding?
04:04 est31 and with the topic
04:04 Higgs_Bonbon I'm thinking 1/16 ratios bb94
04:05 bb94 That's with the servers
04:05 asl97 [12:00:49] <est31> either way, I suck at explaining the differences between minetest and minecraft, because I don't know minecraft :)
04:05 bb94 Not the game itself
04:05 bb94 because MC servers tend to be bigger
04:05 Sokomine hmm. one difference in rules is that we usually don't care about "no advertisement". it's ok to talk about other mt servers on mt servers. mc servers seem to ban players if those talk about other servers
04:05 est31 ah I see
04:05 bb94 Higgs sure
04:05 est31 yea bb94 mc servers are bigger
04:05 est31 and servers do have rules on minetest too
04:05 est31 the big ones
04:05 Higgs_Bonbon MC is huge which is great but awful at the same time
04:06 Sokomine Higgs_Bonbon: why not? if you hit a rock, you may not know in detail how ressourceful it will be - if it's just a thin cover on top or goes through the whole stone...
04:06 bb94 Relevant: one MC server had a plugin that let admins read PMs
04:06 bb94 and an admin caught me advertising (a personal server)
04:06 Higgs_Bonbon If you can break a rock Soko, and find traces, you can keep digging or do some exploration to find the richeer stuff
04:06 bb94 Luckily it was just a stern warning.
04:07 Sokomine i think most rules boil down to more or less the same. though there's more freedom on mt servers. you can in general do what you like...as long as you don't grief or harm anybody else
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04:08 Sokomine bb94: well, that's pretty heavy
04:09 Sokomine Higgs_Bonbon: how big do you want your ore-fields to be?
04:10 Uruwi That's what I use on the forums
04:12 Higgs_Bonbon frickin huge, several dozen meters minimum
04:12 Higgs_Bonbon an entire area might be made of low-grade iron ore for example
04:12 asl97 Higgs_Bonbon: that is small in terms of minetest worlds
04:12 Higgs_Bonbon Think geologic formations
04:13 Higgs_Bonbon I want to be as fantastic and realistic as possible
04:13 asl97 it would be huge in mc though
04:13 Higgs_Bonbon mmhm
04:13 Higgs_Bonbon though
04:13 asl97 too huge imo
04:13 Higgs_Bonbon terrafirmacraft doubles the world height
04:13 Uruwi As in
04:13 Higgs_Bonbon and it works kinda ok
04:13 Uruwi the whole buildable area or the ground?
04:14 est31 we have a world height of 31 000 up and 31 000 down
04:14 Higgs_Bonbon Both? An entire area of rock might have traces of magnetite for example
04:14 Uruwi You still hit bedrock 128m below ground
04:14 asl97 in mt, you can go all the way down to -31000
04:14 est31 but without bedrock
04:14 Uruwi What's the deepest ever mined in survival?
04:14 Higgs_Bonbon I was aware of that, and that's great for what I wanna do
04:14 asl97 Uruwi: depend on the mod available
04:15 Uruwi Let's talk minetest_game for now.
04:15 Higgs_Bonbon but everything else besides block strings is underdeveloped, it looks like I can't make an actual functioning game even with being able to store that data
04:15 asl97 Uruwi: i make it to about 1500 in just a few day,  no real point in going deeper
04:15 est31 whats missing in your eyes
04:16 Uruwi in what?
04:16 Higgs_Bonbon Complex entities, tile entities, multiblocks etc. I haven't even gotten to the industrial multiblock stuff I'm imagining.
04:16 Uruwi Woo
04:16 Higgs_Bonbon Think using heavy machinery to move lots of muck out of a shaft
04:17 asl97 Higgs_Bonbon: all those are possible if you compromise a litt.... maybe a lot
04:17 Higgs_Bonbon NO COMPROMISES
04:17 est31 what are multiblocks
04:17 Higgs_Bonbon a workinmg structure made of several blocks
04:17 asl97 est31: something like the reactor in technic
04:17 asl97 but much more fancy
04:18 Higgs_Bonbon look at the Immersive Engineering mod, very nice multiblocks
04:18 est31 asl97, Higgs_Bonbon whats the main difference there?
04:18 Uruwi How do people do multiblocks?
04:18 Uruwi using different block IDs?
04:19 asl97 the block look change a little bit when it's complete and change back when a node is dug
04:19 Higgs_Bonbon Very carefully. Usually a tile entity looking for other blocks it works with and changing accordingly (?)
04:19 Higgs_Bonbon but the whole thing acts as a single system
04:19 asl97 like a big entity
04:20 est31 well that is doable with minetest as an engine
04:20 Higgs_Bonbon https://s3.amazonaws.com/patreon/94​54ff5ced8a5854a92dfaf3caa86104.jpg
04:20 est31 but I havent seen a mod do it
04:20 asl97 i doubt it
04:20 est31 entirely doable
04:21 est31 tile entities are as we said not needed
04:21 asl97 dynamic multiblocks
04:21 est31 what are Complex entities
04:21 est31 and what are "dynamic multiblocks"?
04:22 asl97 that could be done in minetest, but the animated part is what i doubt
04:22 est31 we don't have animated nodeboxes, true
04:23 Uruwi I'd like to see a multiblock library, though
04:23 asl97 Uruwi: the logic of the multiblock is simple enough
04:23 Uruwi Would make things easier for people who want to do that kind of thing
04:23 Higgs_Bonbon Another image. This mod basically does everything I'd like, engineering-wise. https://pbs.twimg.com/media​/CF96rkqUoAIaVZw.png:large
04:24 Uruwi asl97 for less boilerplate?
04:24 sloantothebone Mesecons is multiblock isnt it?
04:24 est31 no
04:24 asl97 sloantothebone: mesecon is a network
04:24 est31 Uruwi, yea perhaps a library would be nice
04:25 Uruwi One year-city in 5 minutes?
04:25 Higgs_Bonbon And equally complex entity vehicles for backhoes, diggers, etc. But that's for later, I just want the basic oregen stuff figured out first...
04:25 Uruwi Holy shoot
04:25 asl97 only the dynamic multiblock is complex,  it mean it could be in any size and maybe shape as long as it fit the rules of the structure
04:26 sloantothebone That machine doesnt looks like it needs an entity
04:26 sloantothebone That machine looks like it needs an entity*
04:27 est31 yea
04:27 Higgs_Bonbon The entity is bound to the multiblocks I believe
04:27 Higgs_Bonbon I'm not sure if its just for looks and the multiblock does the work, or vice versa
04:29 Higgs_Bonbon here's a more abstract multiblock concept
04:29 Higgs_Bonbon https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAGsD26WQAA5194.png
04:30 asl97 Higgs_Bonbon: flexible cable doesn't exist on minetest yet iirc,  a better example would be something from big reactors
04:30 est31 yea, no cable
04:31 sloantothebone Is an iron golem a multiblock structure?
04:31 asl97 sort of i suppose
04:31 sloantothebone Hmm
04:32 Higgs_Bonbon I believe its just a visual thing, its mostly static I believe but rather than rendering cable blocks it renders a long cable as the established connection
04:32 asl97 when the structure is form, it change into an entity so it apply i guest
04:32 asl97 guess*
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04:33 est31 sloantothebone, for the golem mod, just remove the nodes, and make an entity
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04:33 sloantothebone Okay
04:33 Higgs_Bonbon like on right click between two connections it forms a string like between a player and a mob
04:34 Higgs_Bonbon but it isn't like, actually there yknow
04:34 sloantothebone So yeah Higgs_Bonbon I guess a multiblock entity generation is possible
04:35 Higgs_Bonbon that's reassuring
04:35 sloantothebone https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7128
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04:37 asl97 melon helmets make me think of the melon pants :|
04:37 Uruwi Melon pants?
04:38 asl97 a mc animation
04:38 asl97 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za_Dqgod-8U
04:38 sloantothebone https://github.com/BlockMen/creatures
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04:39 sloantothebone Creatures has a spawner node I believe
04:40 Higgs_Bonbon nooo, this is just way too basic. You really need to see some minecraft mods to see what I mean in terms of complexity
04:40 Higgs_Bonbon The ONLY reason I'm looking at minecraft or minetest is because they're existing voxel engines
04:41 Higgs_Bonbon I don't have the knowhow to do engine crap, I can make content though
04:41 Higgs_Bonbon but nothing supports the content I want to create
04:41 Higgs_Bonbon I'm so frustrated
04:41 Sketch2 Oh, I kind missed a lot of the convo, but it sounds doable to me
04:42 sloantothebone https://github.com/BlockMen/cre​atures/blob/master/spawners.lua
04:42 est31 yea, I dont see any aspect you cant do
04:42 Sketch2 just add a metadata to the block that shows which 16/ths still exist
04:43 Sketch2 so you have a code that's a hex digit, and it says which exist, and which have been broken away
04:44 Uruwi The catch is that you can't change appearance based on metadata.
04:44 Sketch2 why not?
04:45 asl97 Sketch2: because the engine doesn't support it, you would have to swap the node
04:45 est31 yup
04:46 asl97 the idea itself is possible, the way Higgs_Bonbon wanted to do it,  not so much.
04:46 est31 yea
04:47 Uruwi Get that change out already
04:47 sloantothebone Does anyone want to help Higgs_Bonbon?
04:47 Uruwi I'm waiting on it too
04:48 Higgs_Bonbon I'm completely burnt out, all this stuff and I've made no progress. Thanks for the conversation guys, but I don't think minetest is capable of covering my needs; the scope is too big. It may be more optimized than Minecraft but it doesn't have the features or flexibility I require.
04:48 sloantothebone So you wanna make this in minecraft instead?
04:49 est31 Higgs_Bonbon, it has everything you said you require
04:49 Sketch2 I'm certain it's doable
04:49 Uruwi Make it in Minecraft for now but switch over to Minetest when it has the APIs you need
04:49 asl97 Higgs_Bonbon: do you mind if i quote your message you send me from the pm?
04:50 Higgs_Bonbon ok
04:50 Uruwi NO IT'S NOT OK
04:50 sloantothebone Huh?
04:50 asl97 [11:58:56] <Higgs_Bonbon> No, the block would need to either change or despawn and be replaced with a "big" boulder entity
04:50 asl97 [11:59:36] <asl97> you would only be able to punch it then, you can't hold the mouse button to dig it
04:51 Uruwi When I was in 5th grade I was a big racist and fattist, so I used to go to the counselor's office often
04:51 sloantothebone ...
04:51 Uruwi And the counselor interpreted "OK" as "What I did is OK" instead of "I understand"
04:51 Sketch2 sounds very off topic
04:52 asl97 my post above > entity limitation
04:52 Uruwi So you're screwed by having an entity for each stone block?
04:52 est31 err no
04:52 est31 you only need the entity for such a digging machine
04:53 est31 or if you dig a node and you want it to "split up"
04:53 sloantothebone Yeah but in this case nobody ids in trouble and deserves to hear no its not ok, because things are quite ok, HOWEVER it is not ok for you to go off topic like that
04:53 sloantothebone Ok?
04:53 asl97 Uruwi: he mean after digging the node, spawn an entity which need to be dug further
04:53 Uruwi Yes.
04:53 Uruwi As in I understand.
04:54 Uruwi But why does the already-dug node need to be punched?
04:54 est31 well thats a detail, certainly not a reason why I wouldn't want to start something
04:54 Uruwi Instead of mined the normal way.
04:54 est31 minetest is in constant development
04:54 asl97 it can spawn any number of entity on dig, but we can't dig the entites, only punch them
04:55 asl97 [12:00:07] <Higgs_Bonbon> Oh, good thing I want to change how tools work, right click, hold, release to hit
04:55 Uruwi Why have to punch the stone after mining it the first time?
04:55 asl97 and the tool usage and animation limitation ^
04:55 Sketch2 hates the term understand.  I don't wish to stand beneath you, nor you me.  The plan is to reach a common ground, equal footing.
04:55 sloantothebone What about an entity that spawns a node
04:56 Uruwi And carpooling does NOT involve swimming.
04:56 Uruwi It's just the English language.
04:56 sloantothebone If thats not possible u can forget anything like endermen lol
04:56 Uruwi What about pickaxe?
04:57 asl97 sloantothebone: what i said has nothing do to with entity spawning node
04:57 Uruwi Peanuts and pineapples
04:57 Uruwi together
04:57 Uruwi You're not rescuing a girl here
04:57 sloantothebone A node can spawn an entity upon being dug but u cant dig the entity
04:57 asl97 Uruwi: what does peanuts and pineapples have anything to do with what we are talking about?
04:57 Uruwi What I'm asking is why it needs to be that way in the first place
04:58 Uruwi asl97 because someone started a debate about compound words
04:59 sloantothebone ok?
04:59 Sketch2 what's there to debate about?  it was an opinion.  I hate it, end of story.
04:59 Uruwi Ah
04:59 Uruwi I interpreted sloan's comment to be about compound words too
05:00 sloantothebone Well i must take care of my hygiene now, maybe higgs'll be back 2morow
05:00 Sketch2 so, his idea just sounds like an extended/revised microbloks mod
05:03 Sketch2 instead of chopping out a whole block, it changes the node to one that's got a microblock chunk taken out
05:04 Sketch2 In my mind, that sounds doable
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05:05 asl97 the way you descripe, doable yes but the way he wanted it done is not so much
05:06 Sketch2 I missed a lot.  there musta been some added detail, and I'm too tired to pull it in
05:06 Sketch2 it would 'prolly swim past me like jibberish.  gonna grab a glass of milk, then sleep.
05:10 sloantothebone Nvm good night
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05:33 Sketch2 Ok, so here's my take on the idea:  when you dig, it replaces the node you are chipping with a microblock that's missing the proper chunk
05:33 Sketch2 no biggie, we get that.  here's the trick:
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05:34 Sketch2 instead of receiving that item, the item you receive is based upon the surrounding nodes.
05:35 Sketch2 so if it's 100% stone, you get cobble
05:36 Sketch2 if there's 75% stone, 25% diamond in the area, then you'd have a 1/4 chance of getting a diamond
05:37 Sketch2 I know that's not how it's set up now, but that's along the same lines of what he's talking about
05:37 Sketch2 and it's way easier than the 16/ths thing
05:37 asl97 Sketch2: too easy to abuse, place stone after digging it up to get unlimited supply of diamond
05:37 Sketch2 oh...
05:38 Sketch2 k, well, I'm brainstorming on empty.  ty for the feedback tho
05:39 Sketch2 gonna sleep anyway.  maybe there's another method that'll come to mind
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05:42 Sketch2 when you chip away a block, by that point in time, it would read the metadata, right?
05:43 Sketch2 maybe a metadata tag that says    original = true    for all blocks that were map-gen'd
05:43 Sketch2 and any blocks a player places says   original = false
05:43 Sketch2 so it will only count original map blocks in it's ratios
05:50 * VanessaE peeks in
05:52 mazal Morning VanessaE
05:52 VanessaE hi
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06:30 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Settings: pass name to callbacks by reference cb8978f http://git.io/vqiYO (2015-07-09T08:25:17+02:00)
06:30 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Update clouds enable_3d_clouds when setting changed 4ece2b9 http://git.io/vqiYs (2015-07-09T08:24:51+02:00)
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06:55 est31 RealBadAngel, that dude even makes lets play videos with opengl 1.1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMXaUVHR2Zw
06:57 VanessaE holy crap
06:57 VanessaE looks like it's on a game boy :)
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07:09 addi Is a minetest forum moderator online?
07:09 addi evry time i try to login into minetest board it says my account is inactive
07:12 Calinou yes
07:12 Calinou "User is inactive:Profile details changed"
07:12 Calinou I'll activate your account
07:13 Calinou done
07:13 Calinou can you log in now?
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07:15 addi yes thanks a lot
07:17 addi if you want you can also delete my accounts addi2 and addi3. I tried to create new accounts, but it was not successfull
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09:02 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Sugar Cookie Day! 😃
09:08 Krock moin
09:09 diemartin salut
09:14 Krock I wonder how deep I can go with the core voltage.. doing it too low will cause instability but also saves power..
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09:18 TBC_x duh... I have to parse crappy austrian code
09:20 TBC_x diff -yw 1 2 returns following: strncpy(pport,_itoa(tmp_port,pport,10),32); | *pport = tmp_port;
09:20 TBC_x (it is a diff of two function bodies)
09:20 est31 Krock is from switzerland not austria
09:21 Krock why are you talking about me?
09:21 TBC_x yes, why are you talking about him?
09:21 est31 ah has nothing to do with you
09:21 Krock lol
09:21 TBC_x i just had to share that, otherwise my brain would melt
09:22 TBC_x i'm porting uvnc repeater to linux
09:22 Krock I solved the melt-effect by decreasing the voltage of my CPU.. maybe you could do the same with your brain!
09:22 est31 uvnc?
09:22 TBC_x ultra vnc
09:23 est31 cool
09:23 TBC_x maybe i'm doing it the wrong way, but this is unfortunately the only way i know
09:24 est31 ?
09:24 TBC_x reverse engineering code
09:24 TBC_x there's a ton of winapi calls
09:24 est31 thats bad
09:25 TBC_x and the code is pretty much unreadable
09:25 est31 especially if you want to port
09:26 TBC_x I'll probably rewrite it in python
09:26 est31 heh
09:26 TBC_x it is that bad, yes
09:27 est31 well you can rewrite it in c/c++, too.
09:27 TBC_x well it is in c++
09:27 TBC_x but very ugly
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09:29 est31 I am trying to optimize a function that needs 80% CPU at the most popular minetest server
09:29 est31 if my calculations are right
09:30 TBC_x your profilers should be right
09:32 TBC_x I'm not playing minetest very much
09:32 TBC_x but I like thist community
09:33 TBC_x s/thist/this/
09:34 Krock great, there are now two unified inventories in the mod database :/
09:34 technomancy sounds like maybe they need to be
09:34 technomancy ... unified
09:34 technomancy ( •_•) ( -_-)~⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)>
09:34 TBC_x hmm
09:34 diemartin Krock, it's the same one
09:34 diemartin read last post on topic by RBA
09:34 Krock diemartin, yeah but not the same topic.. perhaps I must blacklist the old one
09:35 diemartin possibly
09:38 VanessaE Krock: created as a workaround for a forum glitch
09:38 VanessaE I'll move the old thread to somewhere out of the way
09:38 Krock VanessaE, isn't it possible to move the topics from the old one to the new?
09:38 Krock *posts
09:39 VanessaE Krock: nope.  they'll end up out of order.
09:39 Krock too bad, the might be helpful for future questions
09:40 VanessaE I'll move it to "Old Mods" since both it and the new thread have forward and backward links anyway
09:54 TBC_x guys, could you give me a feedback on this coding style? http://sprunge.us/EHNh
09:55 est31 you program your water cooler? really hacky!
09:56 TBC_x better ideas? I'd like to hear!
09:56 TBC_x it is code for boiler
09:56 technomancy I used erlang for my shed heater
09:56 technomancy https://github.com/technomancy/prometheus
09:56 jin_xi very inconsistent use of { and }
09:56 est31 welll good that you use tabs
09:57 est31 } else{
09:57 TBC_x yeah
09:57 TBC_x that else is a bit off
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09:59 TBC_x it is gonna run on a microcontroller, so i have to be a bit careful
09:59 TBC_x don't have the piece of hardware yet tho
09:59 TBC_x will probably move fan_init() elsewhere
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10:00 est31 void fan_output(){ has lines with trailing spaces
10:00 est31 git will hate it
10:00 TBC_x will get rid of those
10:01 TBC_x and that function is not even implemented
10:04 TBC_x this is my mainloop so far http://sprunge.us/BXYY
10:08 TBC_x I kinda like short local variable names and zero spaces between func() and {
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10:14 TBC_x I didn't know about BeagleBone, it looks amazing
10:15 TBC_x and I love the architecture with an CPU and PRUs
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10:20 Krock good variable names ftw
10:20 TBC_x are you talking about specific variable names?
10:21 Krock p, s, w, etc should be longer, more percise IMO
10:22 Krock but you said you like short variables
10:22 TBC_x well I kinda take advantage of short functions
10:22 TBC_x if it wouldn't fit on a screen i'd definitely use long names
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10:27 TBC_x I kinda hate looking up what the variable represents in long functions so I can put it in my brain context
10:28 TBC_x though that's probably just a tool issue
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12:29 technomancy TBC_x: the beaglebone *is* amazing, but it's overkill for many microcontroller projects
12:30 technomancy in my case I needed it because adding ethernet to an atmega-based setup is a waste of time, but if you don't need networking it can be hard to justify
12:30 swift110-phone Hey
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12:43 TBC_x technomancy: I realized, I probably wouldn't want to have both on the same board
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12:50 ElectronLibre I have a question related to the engine: when looking into a sqlite rollback file I discovered that whenever in the rollbacks are recorder type-2 (aka. TYPE_MODIFY_INVENTORY_STACK actions), no position is recorded for it. Is that normal? I mean, I'm supposed to know where this action happened, am I not?
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14:28 rubenwardy Shiprekt is pretty cool
14:28 rubenwardy Do you know of any similar FOSS games?
14:28 rubenwardy It's basically like a 2D top down VAE system
14:29 rubenwardy where you make boats and attack each other
14:37 Krock that's like that 2d airships game in water..
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16:24 farfadet46 hi
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19:06 Calinou wow 12 players on my HG
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19:29 Calinou 13!
19:30 * Sokomine builds a bakery there
19:31 AnotherBrick i remember Penguin's HG had ~20 players.. why is it more popular? or was..
19:31 Sketch2 I just wish there was more to do in the lobby.
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19:34 luizrpgluiz hi
19:34 AnotherBrick oh.. Calinou's HG has players limit= 16 :-(
19:35 Sokomine his non-hg-server is better. go there and build a nice house :-)
19:36 AnotherBrick i'm not into building. murder murder murder kill kill kill!
19:37 Sokomine :-(
19:37 * Sokomine takes out a pick and diggs the brick
19:37 * Sokomine reassembles all those individual bricks into a brick block again
19:38 Sketch2 lols
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20:02 AnotherBrick GG Calinou :D
20:02 Calinou gg
20:02 Calinou AnotherBrick, will raise it to 20 when server is empty
20:02 Calinou I estimate the server can handle just about 20 players
20:02 Calinou will also need to create 4 new playerstarts
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20:32 Uruwi I would like to join his HG server
20:37 MinetestBot [git] kilbith -> minetest/minetest_game: Improved stairs model 407b32e http://git.io/vqyvk (2015-07-09T21:35:53+01:00)
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21:38 TBC_x cpd has interesting output http://sprunge.us/QZPP
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21:46 paramat sloantothebone, your join/leave messages are still spamming the channels
21:46 sloantothebone Ok there, I turned off automatic reconnect
21:46 paramat thanks
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