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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-06-25

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Time Nick Message
00:02 Lunatrius` joined #minetest
00:05 Lunatrius joined #minetest
00:21 asl97 does water block the minetest.line_of_sight?
00:45 Taoki joined #minetest
01:11 Shackra joined #minetest
01:42 John joined #minetest
01:42 John Can I ask a question? Is Minetest fully legal?
01:43 Guest33901 Can I ask a question? Is Minetest fully legal?
01:43 VanessaE 100%.
01:43 VanessaE it's an open source project that does not use any code or resources from Minecraft, and the look/feel of Minecraft (i.e. the voxel sandbox) isn't copyrightable.
01:44 U1timat3Tr0113r Minetest is 99.9% legal.
01:44 Guest33901 That's what I thought.
01:44 U1timat3Tr0113r and kills 99.9% bacteria
01:44 Guest33901 I teach for a programming camp and I wanted to use this to allow kids learning C++ to get further experience.
01:44 U1timat3Tr0113r VanessaE: Does it matter if it uses Minetest code?
01:44 Guest33901 And the guy is like "It poses legal issues." I'm just like... no...
01:44 U1timat3Tr0113r erm
01:44 U1timat3Tr0113r Minecraft,
01:44 VanessaE Guest33901: well they'll go insane if you do that ;)
01:44 U1timat3Tr0113r VanessaE: Does it matter if it uses minecraft code?
01:44 Guest33901 What do you mean?
01:45 VanessaE U1timat3Tr0113r: of course it matters, because then it would be a copyright issue at the very leasy.
01:45 VanessaE least*
01:45 Guest33901 It's rewritten in C++, so it's rather different, still.
01:45 VanessaE Guest33901: minetest's codebase gets a lot of negative comments from people is all :
01:45 Guest33901 Even if they were to directly copy it and convert.
01:45 U1timat3Tr0113r Who cares, It's migraine$oft.
01:45 VanessaE :)
01:45 Guest33901 How come?
01:45 U1timat3Tr0113r This is Migraine$oft we are talking about..
01:45 VanessaE it's not rewritten - it's written from scratch
01:45 Guest33901 Yes, well, you understand what I mean.
01:45 VanessaE but anyway sure, you should be perfectly safe doing that.
01:45 Guest33901 Why does Minetest's codebase get a lot of negative comments?
01:46 Guest33901 What is so bad about it compared to say... Bukkit?
01:46 VanessaE because a lot of people consider it to be poorly written is all
01:46 Guest33901 But it is functional and understandable nonetheless, yes?
01:46 asl97 minetest is developed by a random bunch of lunatics.
01:46 U1timat3Tr0113r Migraine$oft, The greedy company that gives you a headache, but don't worry.
01:46 Guest33901 Minecraft is "poorly written" as well, some would say.
01:46 U1timat3Tr0113r Headon, apply directly to the forehead.
01:46 asl97 quoted from the site itself
01:47 technomancy Guest33901: minetest embeds lua and you're thinking of teaching C++??
01:47 Guest33901 I already teach C++.
01:47 Guest33901 It's my understanding that, like Bukkit, Minetest features an API.
01:47 technomancy =(
01:48 asl97 the api is in lua
01:48 Guest33901 Ah.
01:48 Guest33901 Well that's shit. :P
01:48 est31 it has a non-lua "API" too
01:48 * U1timat3Tr0113r wishes the fucking internet work
01:48 technomancy no, it'd be shit to write mods in C++
01:48 est31 but its not used
01:48 Guest33901 I mean, I know Lua, but my students don't. XD
01:48 asl97 iirc, the oldish c++ api is gone
01:48 U1timat3Tr0113r Charter Communications is the worst ISP there is.
01:48 Guest33901 Wrong! :P
01:48 Guest33901 Charter is great.
01:48 U1timat3Tr0113r Guest33901: lol
01:48 technomancy they'll have an easier time learning lua from scratch than wasting time with C++ errors
01:48 U1timat3Tr0113r I'm getting not even 1mbps internet.
01:48 U1timat3Tr0113r because they are having problems.
01:49 VanessaE U1timat3Tr0113r: it's slow for me today too
01:49 asl97 doesn't the minetest classic still use the c++ api?
01:49 Guest33901 Why do you say it would be so bad to write mods in C++? :)
01:49 est31 minetest classic?
01:49 VanessaE I can barely sustain 3 Mbps today.
01:49 U1timat3Tr0113r I cannot watch Bill Gates suck dick.
01:49 U1timat3Tr0113r jk
01:49 asl97 it got rename to something else iirc, don't rememeber the name
01:49 Guest33901 Honestly, I know. They struggle with C++ errors so much.
01:49 est31 Guest33901, lua is a better choice as scripting language because its easier to learn
01:50 Guest33901 Yes, I know. I learned Lua for RainMeter.
01:50 technomancy Guest33901: I was really into programming when I was a kid, then someone convinced me I needed to learn C++, and it took half a decade for my interest in programming to recover.
01:50 U1timat3Tr0113r VanessaE: You live in TN?
01:50 Guest33901 I agree with you on that, I despise C++.
01:50 VanessaE U1timat3Tr0113r: NC.
01:50 U1timat3Tr0113r Or KY
01:50 U1timat3Tr0113r I wonder what's your space.
01:50 U1timat3Tr0113r speed
01:50 U1timat3Tr0113r speed*
01:50 Guest33901 There's so many problems with the language.
01:50 VanessaE 60 Mbps normally.
01:51 U1timat3Tr0113r VanessaE: What is it now?
01:51 Guest33901 All people talk about is it's efficiency, cause that's all it's got.
01:51 technomancy Guest33901: I'm actually teaching my own kids some programming, some with Racket and some with Lua in Minetest mods.
01:51 U1timat3Tr0113r I don't really get 60Mbps, espeasilly with Wi-Fi
01:51 technomancy Racket is much better-designed than Lua, but you can't beat the stickiness factor of being inside a game. =)
01:51 asl97 est31: http://voxelands.com/
01:51 U1timat3Tr0113r My router sucks.
01:51 VanessaE U1timat3Tr0113r: barely sustaining about 1.5 Mbps on a software download; some speed tests go as high as 10, most are sticking in the 3-4 range
01:51 est31 asl97, what about it?
01:52 asl97 [09:49:14] <est31> minetest classic?
01:52 U1timat3Tr0113r VanessaE: I'm not even getting 0.7Mbps on download, but the strangest thing is I'm getting 4 fucking Mbps upload!
01:52 technomancy and lua is a bit easier to learn at the outset; it just makes it easier to make silly mistakes that can be comparatively difficult to debug.
01:52 U1timat3Tr0113r This time, Upload is faster....
01:52 Guest33901 Other than personal opinions about C++ being bad to code mods in, you don't think there would be anything wrong with teaching them how to do so, do you?
01:52 VanessaE U1timat3Tr0113r: yeah, that happened on one of the speed tests I did earlier too
01:52 U1timat3Tr0113r Charter is the worst.
01:52 est31 asl97, thats voxelands, not minetest classic
01:52 U1timat3Tr0113r Worser than comcast.
01:52 technomancy Guest33901: teaching by writing mods is a great way to teach IMO
01:52 Guest33901 Worser*
01:52 Guest33901 You just destroyed your arguement. :P
01:53 Guest33901 Yeah, precisely, Techno.
01:53 Guest33901 That's exactly why I want to get them into it.
01:53 asl97 it was call minetest classic iirc
01:53 est31 lol worser
01:53 Guest33901 It has instant visual feedback, and allows for so much creativity.
01:53 est31 asl97, yes it was
01:53 est31 has been *
01:53 VanessaE U1timat3Tr0113r: it's as if we're being throttled or something
01:53 technomancy Guest33901: the best way to teach would be to use in-game programming, but my understanding is that's impractical with the current game engine =(
01:53 Guest33901 My speeds are fine in Missouri.
01:53 U1timat3Tr0113r VanessaE: I wonder when will they give us IPv6 and a better upload speeds.
01:53 technomancy due to limitations in formspecs
01:53 VanessaE meh
01:53 VanessaE never.
01:53 U1timat3Tr0113r I want to run servers for efficently!
01:53 U1timat3Tr0113r s/for/more
01:54 technomancy Guest33901: I've written some on the subject here if you're interested https://github.com/technom​ancy/calandria#philosophy
01:54 est31 if its efficience you desire, try freeminer
01:54 est31 if its stability, try minetest
01:54 asl97 est31: so it was minetest classic
01:54 Guest33901 So do you think I should go ahead and teach them the C++ API for Minetest?
01:54 Guest33901 Or do you have any other game recommendations for modding in C++?
01:55 Guest33901 Cause I honestly can't think of anything as open and easy for them off the top of my head.
01:55 VanessaE Guest33901: go ahead and teach them
01:55 VanessaE modding in minetest is Lua though
01:55 Guest33901 You said there's an old C++ API though, correct?
01:55 U1timat3Tr0113r I given up programming.
01:55 VanessaE no
01:55 U1timat3Tr0113r I suck at programming.
01:55 asl97 U1timat3Tr0113r: i said it was long gone
01:55 asl97 oops
01:55 VanessaE there's no C++ modding API right now
01:55 est31 yup
01:55 VanessaE there might be in the future, who knows,
01:55 VanessaE but it's a Lua API for now
01:56 asl97 stupid moving wall of text make me miss click :(
01:56 Guest33901 Damn, so no way of getting C++ API.
01:56 Guest33901 Cause that defeats the purpose.
01:56 VanessaE not yet.
01:56 est31 Guest33901, I've looked it up and the cpp api is gone
01:56 VanessaE unless you wanna teach engine coding
01:56 est31 with the only trace being the directory name called "cpp_api"
01:56 asl97 Guest33901: it is still in minetest classic iirc
01:56 est31 but it doesnt contain any api code except lua api
01:56 Guest33901 Any other recommendations for them to code mods in, then?
01:57 Guest33901 as197: Do you have a link?
01:57 technomancy as much as it kills me to say it, computercraft actually has a much more polished in-game coding experience
01:57 est31 http://voxelands.com
01:57 technomancy since they don't have to work around formspec suckage
01:57 asl97 i posted it not that long ago :|
01:57 technomancy but their licensing is rubbish
01:58 est31 technomancy, if you want, code the formspecs successor
01:58 technomancy est31: I want to... I want to so hard.
01:58 technomancy I just don't want to learn C++
01:59 est31 ha lol
02:00 technomancy it's a life goal of mine to make it through without learning C++
02:00 technomancy (also autotools but that's not really relevant here)
02:00 est31 ok I agree autotools are quite shit
02:10 U1timat3Tr0113r I give up trying to watch a video.
02:10 U1timat3Tr0113r Fucking charter.
02:10 U1timat3Tr0113r TIL what Dial-up is actually like.
02:11 asl97 if it's a youtube video, i just download them using youtube-dl before watching them if/when my internet sucks
02:11 U1timat3Tr0113r What if it's not youtube
02:11 asl97 youtube-dl support lots of other site too
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02:16 U1timat3Tr0113r Meh, I'll wait till Charter stop sucking dick and fucking fix it.
02:18 asl97 i tried writing a collision point function and it works most of the time, but sometimes it glitch and the entity get place too deep in the node :|
02:21 asl97 wtf......  it doesn't detect non full node, i blame minetest.line_of_sight
03:12 U1timat3Tr0113r Cmon, pls give me 1Mbps.
03:12 U1timat3Tr0113r dammit.
03:13 U1timat3Tr0113r I'm not even getting 0.35Mbps
03:15 VanessaE jeez
03:15 VanessaE and I thought the ~1.5 Mbps we're getting is slow
03:16 U1timat3Tr0113r Heh I was around 0.32 - 0.30Mbps, then it stopped.
03:16 U1timat3Tr0113r It didn't finish the speedtest.
03:16 VanessaE ouch
03:16 U1timat3Tr0113r VanessaE: Though also you need to add the slowness from Wi-Fi with it.
03:16 U1timat3Tr0113r But I doubt switching to wired will make a difference.
03:16 VanessaE thankfully no wifi to worry about in my case
03:17 * U1timat3Tr0113r wishes he could use wired anywhere.
03:17 VanessaE not that it'll have any impact if you can't even pull 1 Mbps
03:17 U1timat3Tr0113r I would use wired, but I don't want to run a ethernet cable across the stairs.
03:18 VanessaE run it under them, then :)
03:18 * U1timat3Tr0113r attempts to use a short and shitty cable and does a speed test.
03:19 U1timat3Tr0113r VanessaE: Sometimes, when it prepares to test download speed, It gets stuck on "Connecting".
03:19 VanessaE ditto
03:20 U1timat3Tr0113r Now I felt what Dial-up is really is.
03:20 VanessaE no you haven't :)
03:20 VanessaE dialup is 1/10 as fast as what you're getting now
03:20 U1timat3Tr0113r Download speed: 0.15Mbps
03:20 VanessaE dial-up is slower :)
03:20 VanessaE max speed of a dialup connection is 56 kbps.
03:20 U1timat3Tr0113r It's strange that my upload speed is 3.13Mbps
03:20 VanessaE more commonly 38.4 kbps
03:21 U1timat3Tr0113r Then what speed is 0.15Mbps?
03:21 U1timat3Tr0113r It can't be broadband
03:21 U1timat3Tr0113r Usually people don't survive with that speed in today's world.
03:21 VanessaE that's roughly ISDN speed :P
03:21 VanessaE (just a hair faster than)
03:22 U1timat3Tr0113r Usually people probably find themselves at the end of a rope because of the slowness.
03:22 U1timat3Tr0113r jk
03:22 U1timat3Tr0113r Old dial-up joke.
03:23 U1timat3Tr0113r VanessaE: When did your internet became crappy?
03:24 U1timat3Tr0113r I'm wondering if all of charter is affected.
03:24 U1timat3Tr0113r Or just TN and nearby states.
03:25 U1timat3Tr0113r Wow it gotten quiet in here.
03:25 U1timat3Tr0113r lol
03:26 U1timat3Tr0113r VanessaE: Gotta love when Speedtest knows your ISP, but says at the end of the speedtest "Are you on undefined?"
03:26 U1timat3Tr0113r Yes, I am on undefined.
03:27 VanessaE it got crappy today
03:27 VanessaE yesterday, I was pulling 7 Mbytes/sec downloading updates and such
03:27 U1timat3Tr0113r VanessaE: I don't even get my package speed here and there.
03:27 U1timat3Tr0113r And their customer support is horrible.
03:28 U1timat3Tr0113r Treat us like we're stupid.
03:29 U1timat3Tr0113r They wanted us to get their "Spectrum Modem" and get rid of our http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-SB6120-SU​RFboard-eXtreme-Broadband/dp/B001UI2FPE
03:32 VanessaE I just have the modem they issued us
03:32 U1timat3Tr0113r One does not simply approve charter.
03:32 VanessaE I dunno
03:33 VanessaE they've always been good to us.
03:33 U1timat3Tr0113r Its ISP, are guarded more than just orcs
03:33 U1timat3Tr0113r Their is an evil there, that does not simply.
03:33 U1timat3Tr0113r sleep*
03:33 U1timat3Tr0113r The great eye.
03:33 U1timat3Tr0113r jk
03:33 VanessaE who the fuck are they, Sauran? :)
03:33 VanessaE Sauron*
03:34 U1timat3Tr0113r Atleast someone knows the reference :D
03:34 U1timat3Tr0113r Yet I never seen LOTR
03:34 est31 or read?
03:34 U1timat3Tr0113r I don't read.
03:34 U1timat3Tr0113r Reading isn't my things.
03:34 U1timat3Tr0113r Reading isn't my thing*
03:35 est31 and what are you doing right now?
03:35 U1timat3Tr0113r I perfer movies over books.
03:35 U1timat3Tr0113r est31: It's not what I meant.
03:35 U1timat3Tr0113r I can read, but I perfer movies, over books.
03:36 U1timat3Tr0113r It's what I perfer.
03:38 est31 <U1timat3Tr0113r> est31: It's not what I meant. <<<------- jk lol
03:39 U1timat3Tr0113r We are the NSA, Lower your firewalls, and prepared to be probed, your files and information will adapt to service us, resistance is futile.
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04:17 U1timat3Tr0113r VanessaE: I can't even look up the cheat stuff for skyrim
04:17 U1timat3Tr0113r nvm
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05:23 U1timat3Tr0113r And there goes my internet...blazing fast now.
05:23 U1timat3Tr0113r well...or so I thought.
05:23 U1timat3Tr0113r Atleast now I'm getting more than 1Mbps
05:24 * asl97 is feeling very unmotivated
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06:11 VanessaE U1timat3Tr0113r: my connection sped up also
06:12 VanessaE speedtest.net puts me back at a solid 65 Mbps down, 4 up.
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06:33 technomancy when you run cmake and it successfully finds luajit, it will say so in the output, right?
06:33 est31 yes
06:33 est31 dunno however whether you have to remove cache and so on
06:33 technomancy does `make clean` remove the cache?
06:34 est31 no
06:34 est31 it removes object files
06:34 est31 but no cmake stuff
06:34 technomancy ok, what's the secret to luajit then?
06:34 technomancy related: can this please be added to the readme?
06:35 technomancy not a big fan of "oh you specified a bunch of options, but we're going to just ignore them silently"
06:35 est31 if you are specifying options, they work
06:35 est31 but if youre just waiting for detection, then good luck
06:35 est31 usually it does the detection stuff only once
06:35 est31 for speed reasons
06:36 technomancy I removed CMakeCache.txt, and it's still ignoring -DENABLE_LUAJIT=1
06:36 est31 can you paste the cmake output?
06:37 technomancy sure, here ya go: http://p.hagelb.org/luajit-attempt.txt.html
06:38 technomancy same output whether I point LUA_LIBRARY at libluajit.a or libluajit.so
06:38 technomancy the documentation doesn't explain the difference
06:39 est31 you dont know the difference between .a and .so?
06:39 est31 .a is static linking, .so is dynamic linking
06:39 technomancy ok, so either one will work? cool.
06:40 est31 yes
06:40 est31 but .a will stop working once you update luajit binary
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07:13 technomancy so what's the trick to actually enabling luajit?
07:14 asl97 technomancy: it should already be enable if you compile it in already
07:14 asl97 you can check it using minetest --server --version
07:15 technomancy asl97: I am trying to compile it in, but it's ignoring what I tell it
07:16 technomancy http://p.hagelb.org/luajit-attempt.txt.html fwiw
07:16 asl97 just try to build it and check if it's enable
07:17 asl97 if not, you could always do a git reset and clean
07:18 technomancy asl97: est31 told me that if cmake output didn't mention luajit that it wouldn't be enabled
07:18 technomancy but I don't have anything else to try, so heck
07:18 asl97 it didn't output anything about lua ether so there must be a flag set already
07:21 asl97 hmmm... did the output for lua get remove from cmake?
07:21 est31 technomancy, usually it does output stuff https://travis-ci.org/minet​est/minetest/jobs/68080200
07:21 est31 like here "LuaJIT not found, using bundled Lua."
07:22 technomancy asl97: that seems like the most likely possibility; otherwise it's just silently ignoring explicit declarations, which is just uuuuuuugh
07:22 technomancy est31: in my case it doesn't mention it either way
07:23 est31 technomancy, if it is silent, thats a good sign
07:23 asl97 i was talking about the system lua
07:24 technomancy huh, ok.
07:24 technomancy compile finished
07:24 est31 technomancy, what does grep CMakeCache.txt LUA say?
07:24 technomancy so if bin/minetest --server --version mentions USE_LUAJIT=1 then it succeeded?
07:24 est31 or other way round
07:24 asl97 technomancy: should be
07:24 est31 yes technomancy usually yes
07:24 est31 you can do the ultimate test
07:24 est31 and check the execution environment
07:24 technomancy ok cool; so it's just that the cmake output must have changed since last time I tried it
07:25 technomancy thanks
07:25 est31 technomancy, just check if one of these is present http://luajit.org/extensions.html
07:27 technomancy oh man; luajit has bitwise ops!
07:27 technomancy that's cool
07:28 technomancy confirmed bitwise ops are present, sweet
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07:35 est31 hrmm, seems that atom is the new "build your ide" tool
07:35 Cryterion joined #minetest
07:36 est31 first github (with atom itself), then microsoft, now facebook
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09:01 crazyR est31 atom is great apart from the amount of mem its uses.
09:01 crazyR possibly just memory leaks though
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09:03 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Global Beatles Day! 😃
09:38 technomancy how frowned-upon is it to code mods that require luajit?
09:38 est31 you shouldnt do it
09:39 est31 and if you do it for the speedup, add a non-jit fallback
09:39 technomancy I'm thinking of the bitop stuff
09:39 est31 yea bitop is mostly sugar
09:39 technomancy oh, that's been ported to 5.1 as an external lib it looks like?
09:39 technomancy how common is it for mods to require 3rd-party lua libs?
09:40 est31 very uncommon
09:40 est31 they do it only if they need stuff
09:40 est31 eg luasocket
09:40 technomancy it blew my mind to read that lua got all the way to version 5.1 without bothering to implement bit operations
09:41 technomancy oh wow, you can catch C++ exceptions with luajit
09:41 technomancy hopefully not relevant for minetest, but a very impressive feature
09:42 technomancy oh man
09:43 technomancy luajit supports metatables for iterators, but you have to compile it in
09:43 technomancy I have some really awful code that works around that in 5.1
09:43 technomancy grrr
09:44 technomancy (another facepalm for "how did it take so long for this to be added")
09:44 est31 we dont update to 5.2 until luajit supports it fully
09:44 technomancy do you know if that's in their roadmap?
09:45 est31 also perhaps it never gets updated because lua broke some features AFAIK
09:45 technomancy the sandboxing stuff is incompatible, yeah
09:45 technomancy __ENV
09:45 technomancy but the 5.1 version of that is tacky as hell
09:45 est31 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7573588/v​ariable-number-of-function-arguments-lua-5-1
09:46 est31 oh sorry
09:46 technomancy est31: you get a warning for that at least though
09:46 est31 that doesnt even mention 5.2
09:46 est31 ?
09:47 technomancy huh... IIRC arg is a 5.0 feature that works in 5.1 but it yells at you. maybe the question author is working with warnings-as-errors or something
09:50 technomancy looks like as of 2013 there were no plans to introduce full 5.2 compatibility
09:58 est31 so it seems we are stuck
09:58 RealBadAngel luajit has bitwise library
09:58 RealBadAngel so what for 5.2 is needed?
09:58 est31 more than that I guess
09:59 est31 the luajit dev knows lua better than me I suppose
10:00 technomancy RealBadAngel: personally I want 5.2 because it supports using iterators from metatables
10:00 technomancy the sandboxing implementation is much nicer than 5.1 too, but the ugliness for that isn't nearly as widespread
10:02 technomancy the metatable fixes in 5.2 are available in luajit, but only if you compile with a compatibility flag
10:03 technomancy so luajit has this weird version 5.1½ that you can target
10:04 technomancy essentially
10:07 est31 yea I know
10:09 technomancy does minetest support non-jit lua specifically because it's more portable?
10:09 est31 more portable, and more debug-able
10:09 est31 valgrind just refuses to work with luajit
10:09 est31 this is known, and luajit doesnt care
10:10 est31 and perhaps other reasons too
10:11 technomancy right; I guess that's the price of performance; it's going to do clever things that interfere with analysis
10:11 technomancy good to know
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12:01 technomancy woo; got my server nodes capable of reprogramming luacontrollers
12:06 nore ^ interesting :)
12:06 nore with that + technic frames it could even be possible to make a self-reproducing machine I think :)
12:07 technomancy I really need to get around to checking out technic
12:17 technomancy hoping to cut a release of my mod soon
12:17 technomancy I just don't have a good way to edit code on the server
12:17 technomancy and I don't think I'm going to be able to make one =\
12:17 technomancy so I'll have to settle for a lame way to edit code; better than nothing
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13:10 Taoki nore: Hi! Have a bit more time to help me take a look at that code from last night, please? On it again for the last half an hour, and can't make any progress still.
13:10 Taoki https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.ph​p?f=47&amp;t=12659&amp;p=182723#p182730 Describes the two problems it still has
13:11 * nore looks
13:12 nore what do you get when you are on the left & right sides of the mob?
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13:17 Taoki nore: The value increases and decreases equally on both sides, which is wanted behavior
13:17 nore but you get 90 in front??
13:17 Taoki The problem is that being in front of and behind the mob produce the same output, so I can't tell between the two. Also pitch doesn't work.
13:17 Taoki Yes
13:17 Taoki Which is why last night I did 90 - result
13:18 nore but you said it increased & decreased equally on sides
13:18 Taoki That would output -10* on one side and +10* on another, whereas without it I'd get 80* on one and 100* on the other (90* in the center)
13:18 Taoki Yes, that part works fine
13:18 Taoki It increases / decreases aroung 90* which is weird, but it does so proportionally and accordingly to the cone.
13:19 nore ah, 80 on left side and 100 on right one?
13:19 Taoki Yes
13:19 TeTpaAka The angle doesn't respect whether your target is right or left.
13:19 nore then we have a rotation problem
13:19 TeTpaAka It should returnt the same angle for both sides.
13:19 TeTpaAka -t
13:19 nore you should change again x -> z and z -> -x
13:19 Taoki Which is why I had 90 - result. But that's not the problem... problem is pitch and difference between frontt and back
13:19 Taoki I tried to flip x and z too. But then the cone is centered around the sides.
13:20 nore wait, what?
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13:20 Taoki Going back and forth parallel to the mob increases / decreases the angle, which means the central line of the cone isn't around the front any more
13:20 Taoki If I flip x and z
13:21 Taoki And going back and forth across the side of the mob doesn't increase the angle, which means the cone is centered there
13:21 nore ^ that's because there is the pitch that changed that
13:21 Taoki But pitch is 0, and I'm standing at the same height as the mob
13:21 Taoki So walking back and forth parallel to its face should not change the value.
13:21 nore your position is the one of the foot
13:22 nore perhaps the first thing to do to test that would be to disable pitch completely
13:22 Taoki I think I did that last night, same issue. Pitch is however 0 right now, so I am testing without pitch
13:22 Taoki math.cos(0) reports 1, so I just multiply with 1
13:22 Taoki Therefore this is the result without pitch
13:22 nore that means: instead of passing vector.subtract(pos2, pos1) as arg, do local v = vector.subtract(pos2, pos1); v.y = 0 and then use v
13:23 Taoki Ah, that might be a bit different. Ok, will try it
13:24 Taoki Result appears to be unchanged from the existing formula. I will try flipping x and z not
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13:25 Taoki Woah... now it actually works fine!
13:26 Taoki Yes, that fixes the front / back issue
13:26 Taoki I get 0 in front of the mob, 90 on sides, 180 behind. Walking back and forth parallel to the mob (in any direction) doesn't change the value, which is the normal behavior
13:26 Taoki Thank you! So now pitch is the only thing left to solve... why was it breaking the formula that way?
13:27 TeTpaAka Good. ;-)
13:27 Taoki It looks like y isn't being calculated properly
13:27 nore remember that player head is 1.5 nodes above its position
13:27 nore your mod may have an offset with y too
13:27 TeTpaAka And, if I remember correctly, your mobs are offset because of the collisionbox bug.
13:27 Taoki Ahhh... actually there's still a problem: If the mob faces 90* from what I just tested, standing in front of it now produces 180*
13:28 Taoki I should perhaps do -x again in yaw2vec. Which is the reason why I did it in the first place
13:28 Taoki That sign problem
13:29 Taoki Yep... using -yaw for x solves that
13:29 Taoki So pitch is the last thing...
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13:32 Taoki Ok: I commented out the v.y = 0 line. Surprisingly, the result is unchanged: Walking parallel to the mob in any direction at ground level doesn't change the value, which is wanted behavior and means horizontal agle is calculated perfectly. However, flying up or down does nothing at all.
13:32 Taoki Flying up and down while not moving vertically at all
13:32 Taoki So the virtual cone doesn't seem to have or account the vertical component.
13:33 TeTpaAka It should treat all axes equally.
13:33 Taoki http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=xDjXkAAU This is what I have now.
13:34 Taoki And tes, the -yaw is necessary, otherwise the angle is inverted if the mob faces the other way aroun
13:34 Taoki **around
13:34 Taoki But it's not related to this issue most likely
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13:37 Taoki The way I can tell it's not working is: Moving horizontally toward or away from the mob while parallel to it in any axis doesn't change the output, which is good and which should remain this way (we have the same height). However, flying up or down while staying pergectly still horizontally does not change the value in any way, which means height isn't being calculated additionally.
13:39 Taoki This happens in any axis: If I stand in front of the mob, behind it, right of it, or left of it, flying up and down doesn't change the value in the slightest.
13:40 Taoki TeTpaAka, nore: Any thoughts please? Once that's fixed it should all be good at last :)
13:40 TeTpaAka can you print the v vector and tell us, what the y component is?
13:40 Taoki Sure, hold on
13:42 Taoki Aha. When staying perfectly still, y = -1.0100002288818 I thought the player and mob have the same height... my mistake.
13:42 Taoki In any case, moving vertically should change the value, so something is still wrong
13:42 Taoki Staying still as in, both me and mob sitting at ground level
13:42 TeTpaAka Does y change when you fly up?
13:43 nore is the value 90 deg?
13:43 Taoki Yes. Flew up by about 1 or 2 nodes, now it's y = 0.6870002746582,
13:43 Taoki nore: Not I get 0* in front, 90* on sides, 180* in back. The only problem is that vertical position plays no role
13:44 nore hm...
13:44 Taoki **Now
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13:44 Taoki I'm sorry for my bad typing :(
13:44 nore and if you fly very high up, does the value get closer to 90?
13:45 Taoki nore: The value doesn't change no matter what height I'm at.
13:45 nore and the v.y = 0 line is commented, you're sure???
13:45 Taoki Wait... actually it does. But only if I'm not parallel to the mob... like right in front of it
13:45 Taoki I must be positioned diagonally to it
13:46 Taoki Then, flying up or down changes the angle considerable
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13:46 nore and when you're on the side?
13:46 Taoki But the FOV is always a cone, so it should do this at any horizontal position
13:46 Taoki No, not then
13:46 nore and not in front either
13:46 Taoki Basically not if I'm parallel to the mob. Either on the sides, either front or back
13:46 Taoki Nope
13:46 Taoki That's the weird part
13:46 nore wtf??
13:47 Taoki It FEELS like bad syncronization between sin and cos somewhere... now 100% sure
13:47 nore it should not change on the side
13:47 Taoki Maybe I should invert cos and sin for pitch in yaw2vec?
13:47 nore but should when you're in front
13:47 Taoki Right, it's the other way around
13:47 Taoki Perhaps
13:47 nore no, pitch is ok
13:48 nore could you try angle(v, v)?
13:48 nore should always be 0
13:48 Taoki Wait...
13:48 Taoki I don't understand. I didn't change anything, and now moving back and forth from the mob changes angle again.
13:48 Taoki This is weird...
13:49 nore ...
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13:50 Taoki I had v.y = 0 commented out, and it worked. Now if I re-enable that line, the calculations break all the time.
13:50 nore ...
13:50 Taoki Maybe the file didn't save? I see no other logical explanation, the result can't change by itself. I seriously don't know x_x
13:50 Taoki Anyway: Commenting out v.y = 0 now breaks everything, again.
13:51 TeTpaAka I have no idea what is going wrong.
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13:51 TeTpaAka bbl
13:51 CraigyDavi joined #minetest
13:51 Taoki Ok. And me neither
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13:53 Taoki Actually, it might be working properly now.
13:54 Taoki The angle change as I move toward / away from the mob is minor. If player and mob height differs a bit, this is logical
13:54 Taoki I'll test more to be safe
13:54 Darcidride_ Come and give you opinion about https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2829 (thank you in advance) ! :)
13:55 Taoki Yes, this is it actually!
13:58 Taoki nore: Did multiple tests. It's working exactly like it should now. Thanks!
13:58 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Remove compile warning 3376d2e http://git.io/vtmhI (2015-06-25T15:50:31+02:00)
13:58 Taoki Everything works fine
13:59 nore you're welcome :)
13:59 Taoki Nice... that -yaw isn't needed any more either
14:00 Taoki Or it is, heh. Anyway it's all good :P
14:00 TheWild I was out.. ^ is this solved completely?
14:01 Taoki TheWild: Seems like it. Did all tests and the result is always correct
14:02 TheWild fine
14:02 * TheWild is going home.
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14:31 Darcidride_ Come and give you opinion about https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2829 (thank you in advance) ! :)
14:42 Taoki http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Gp3X83UZ This is the final, simplified function. 5 lines of code only, and same functionality (tested). Hope it can be of help to many people
14:43 nore Taoki: you should replace math.sin(-yaw) by -math.sin(yaw)
14:43 Taoki Is there a difference? But ok
14:43 nore same, but it's easier to understand :)
14:44 nore i.e. that's what the actual formula gives
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14:44 nore anyway, looks fine :)
14:44 TeTpaAka looks good.
14:45 Taoki Corrected
14:51 Taoki Anyway, stealth minigames should be possible to create with my Creatures mod after this is implemented, and I'll add hearing separately. The kind where you can sneak up behind enemy mobs, and not be attacked unless they suddenly turn around and notice you
14:52 Taoki Similar to thief / thedarkmod / etc. Should be fun :)
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16:23 Calinou Atom 1.0 is out
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16:31 TheWild how to link issue with pull request?
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16:38 Calinou just mention it
16:39 Calinou if your commit message contains "fixes #1234", "closes #1234" it will be automatically closed when merged
16:42 TheWild oops, I have not added it to the message
16:42 TheWild Leaving a comment will be enough?
16:42 Calinou a comment where?
16:42 Calinou we can close the issue manually
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16:51 TheWild ok, referenced successfully. Thanks
16:57 DusXMT I wonder... is mithril not in Carbone? The other moreores ores seem to be in, but I can't find mithrill...
16:59 Calinou DusXMT, nope, no mithril in Carbone
17:01 DusXMT Calinou: thanks for the quick answer... I'm curious why though? (and I'm really enjoying your game, I have to say, it's the small details that make Minetest so much more enjoyable)
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17:01 Calinou sadly Carbone is no longer maintained, it's based on minetest_game 0.4.9...
17:02 Calinou I think there are enough ores in the game, that's all :P
17:02 Calinou although mithril would be a nice addition to minetest_game
17:02 DusXMT Well, I heard minetest_game is freezed, so does it make a difference?
17:03 luizrpgluiz hi all :)
17:03 DusXMT (or was that just a thing in the past that I stumbled upon in the forums?)
17:09 Calinou it is not
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17:42 Calinou http://lichess.org/58OyfgcF
17:42 Calinou chess anyone?
17:45 TheWild nah, I'm not good at chess
17:56 TheWild Why the hell github is so unintuitive?
17:56 TheWild how to get specific branch identifier or something
17:57 Calinou my opponent ragequit
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18:17 Taoki Alright... field of vision is in. Now it's time to add hearing to mobs.
18:17 Taoki Does anyone know whether there's a way to tell if a player is punching (mining) a node, from the player entity itself? Als if it's punching a mob or other objects.
18:25 luizrpgluiz little group of people using Linux?
18:26 luizrpgluiz I prefer to play to Linux than using Windows, but to make minetest server, I use Windows
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18:55 Taoki Hmmm... why is set_properties docummented as both a player and entity function? Can you use it to set custom properties on players?
18:56 Taoki Including custom properties of your own?
18:59 Taoki Silly me... of course, set_properties is used to configure the appearance of players for instance. But can it set then get custom properties as well?
19:00 Taoki Like player:set_properties({myprop = 1,})
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19:51 xenkey hello
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20:03 donpdonp hi. ive got it build but cant figure out where the world goes
20:03 donpdonp im using RUN_IN_PLACE, and did mkdir ./worlds/
20:04 donpdonp putting minetest_game in ./worlds/world or ./worlds/minetest doesnt work
20:04 asl97 minetest_game is not a world, it's a game, you put it in the game folder
20:04 donpdonp i dont have a game folder
20:04 donpdonp :)
20:04 asl97 games*
20:05 donpdonp ah i see games/minimal
20:05 donpdonp what name does it need in games/
20:05 asl97 minetest_game
20:06 donpdonp ok. starting ./bin/minetest shows a menu to 'select world' with an empty list
20:06 asl97 you create a new world
20:06 asl97 using the new button
20:06 donpdonp oh okay.
20:07 donpdonp this needs to be in the readme.
20:07 donpdonp thx!
20:07 asl97 it is in the wiki, http://wiki.minetest.net/Getting_Started
20:09 donpdonp i see nothing about putting minetest_game into games/
20:09 donpdonp it is in the directory structure listing, but id have to deduce that I needed to do it myself
20:11 asl97 it is also in the readme, https://github.com/minetest/minetest
20:12 asl97 the part where it says: Download minetest_game, without using git:
20:12 donpdonp oh yeah i see it. thx
20:13 asl97 and https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game but i suppose it not clearly stated
20:14 donpdonp i never looked at that repo because i dont have to build the game, just get the zip
20:15 asl97 the game doesn't need building, most `games` is just get the zip and extract into the games folder
20:16 asl97 most games hosted on github just give a direct link to download it
20:16 asl97 eg: https://github.com/minetest/mi​netest_game/archive/master.zip
20:18 donpdonp yup.
20:19 donpdonp dang it, just accidentally rm -rf the game
20:19 donpdonp haha. okay time to step away from the keyboard.
20:19 donpdonp thx for the help
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20:25 xenkey lol
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20:34 Taoki Is minetest.register_on_punchnode broken? The parameter "node" returns nil for me
20:35 Taoki Ah sorry, it returns a table... got confused again >_>
20:51 Taoki Is there any function to get the length (in seconds) for an audio file?
20:52 asl97 not in minetest i think
20:52 Taoki ok
20:53 asl97 there might be a 3rd party library in lua though
20:53 Taoki It only matters if it's builtin, and Minetest is guaranteed to have it. Don't want the mod to crash for some people
20:54 asl97 you can always bundle it together with the mod
20:54 asl97 if the license allow
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21:50 TheWild is this safe to override minetest methods?
21:51 asl97 it depend on what you are overriding iirc
21:52 TheWild more specifically: minetest.register_craft, minetest.get_craft_recipe, minetest.get_craft_result...
21:52 asl97 if you return the expected result then it should be fine
21:53 TheWild On the latest released version (0.4.12, not minetest-master) performance of searching the item from given recipe just SUCKS very badly. DreamBuilder has a lot of mods in it and because of poor performance of getting item from recipe it is on the edge of being unplayable.
21:54 TheWild thanks to est31 who finally fixed it at the core
21:54 asl97 so you want to make a cache of some sort?
21:54 TheWild yes
21:55 asl97 override it with a function that cache it and then pass it back to the original method
21:55 TheWild code it in lua to at least improve speed of this one, until 0.4.13 is released
21:55 TheWild umm... maybe not really a cache, but hashtable
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21:56 TheWild I can't believe that nobody pointed the problem out when register_craft was implemented.
21:57 asl97 original_function = minetest.function;  minetest.function = function (y,z){cache[y]=z;original_function(y,z)}
21:57 asl97 something like that, maybe
21:58 TheWild rather to implement own way of crafting rule registration
21:58 TheWild and retrieval
21:59 asl97 doesn't the unified invertory depend on the default crafting function or something?
21:59 asl97 i never really look at the source for it yet though
22:00 TheWild I think it does, that's why it is so slow
22:02 TheWild https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game​/blob/master/mods/beds/functions.lua#L11 <- looks like somebody was afraid of math.pi
22:03 asl97 if you override it with your own crafting api without passing the data to the default function, wouldn't that break the mods which depend on them as well as the engine itself?
22:04 TheWild should not
22:04 asl97 like wouldn't everything become unknown?  also there is no way to get it to load before the other mod so that it can override the function unless you make default depend on it iirc
22:05 TheWild IMHO the whole item crafting idea should be thrown out form the C++ code and be one of the core mods.
22:05 asl97 it would also depend on other mods depending on default
22:05 asl97 override the function before other mod use it*
22:06 TheWild ^ yup, that's it
22:06 TheWild right now I'm checking whether minetest.register_craft is registered within builtin directory
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22:09 TheWild note that we have minetest.register_on_craft(func) and minetest.register_craft_predict(func)
22:13 TheWild another question. Look at the javascript in browser - most things are done asynchronously (do not confuse with multithreading), e.g. doTask(params, function(){...})
22:14 TheWild in MineTest, there is minetest.after
22:14 TheWild but I'm not sure if minetest.after(0, function() ... end) will always work
22:14 TheWild or is it even correct?
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23:59 haiku !server Megaf
23:59 MinetestBot haiku: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 0/11, 0/2 | Version: 0.4.12-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 8ms

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