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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-06-20

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 Taoki So something I've never quite understood: Does the Minetest client attempt to download all textures / sounds / models from a server when joining it, even if it already has them in its local folders? Wondering because I'm thinking about the game I plan to make with Minetest... which might have high-res textures, and will have a lot of music and possibly even voices for mobs.
00:11 Taoki I know that connection time used to be very, very long on some servers. Often 5 minutes, for no explicable reason
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00:14 est31 Taoki, yes it downloads them
00:14 Taoki Ah
00:14 est31 and it caches them
00:14 Taoki That sounds really unoptimal. Can't it try to detect them locally first?\
00:14 est31 so only downloaded on first join an when you update
00:14 Taoki Still bad though
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00:16 est31 why
00:21 Taoki Because if a game has a lot of textures and sounds, that will make connecting to your first server very long and difficult
00:23 est31 its better than not downloading the media at all
00:23 est31 I mean you cant do magic, there needs to be some way to get the media onto your device
00:26 Taoki est31: But it already is on the device :P That's my point
00:26 est31 why is it on the device?
00:26 est31 I mean if you have people joining your server
00:26 est31 they dont have your game installed
00:26 est31 only minetest
00:27 Taoki What I mean is: If I create a custom Minetest game, with a lot of textures and sounds and such. Someone else makes a server for that game, and someone else who has that connects. Why download the data already there from the server?
00:27 Taoki Ah... no. I mean if both the server and client initially have the same games and mods installed locally :)
00:27 Taoki Obviously if the client doesn't, it has to download them
00:28 est31 btw by game you mean "minetest client clone thats basically a packaged subgame" or "subgame"
00:28 Taoki A subgame, placed in the "games" folder
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00:28 Taoki My point is: If both the client and server have the game to begin with, does the client still have to download media from the server?
00:29 est31 i dont know
00:29 Taoki Or does it see that it exists locally and cache that instead?
00:29 Taoki Ok. If someone knows let me know... would be good to know from this stage
00:29 est31 it will cahce it though
00:29 est31 cache*
00:29 est31 but its a minor bug
00:29 est31 look at dreambuilder
00:29 est31 people still connect to it
00:30 est31 this "cache" is quite a good cookie mechanism
00:31 Taoki Sure. Only problem is if it always caches from server, or first looks in the client
00:31 est31 dunno
00:32 VanessaE if you've run the local game at least once, it'll use that data.
00:32 VanessaE unless it differs from what the server sends.
00:33 Taoki I see
00:33 Taoki Thanks, that helps.
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00:58 Sokomine Taoki: voices for mobs would be nice. right now, they seem to be able to just shout "die!" as a war cry. a short "hi" or other form of greetings plus perhaps some background noise might be nice
01:01 Taoki Also, there's one more thing I wanted to know: Is there an easy, builtin way, of detecting a connection through a pair of nodes? I mean wires... basically to see if two nodes connect through each other through a third node type
01:01 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Make attached objects visible in 3rd person view 40226e5 http://git.io/vL6pR (2015-06-20T02:59:53+02:00)
01:01 Taoki But hopefully something cheap
01:02 Taoki Oh... they weren't already? Glad someone fixed that.
01:03 Sokomine do you mean mesecons? or nodes in general?
01:04 Taoki I think I'm going to make something LIKE mesecons... either from scratch or a fork of Mesecons
01:04 Taoki So I wanted to know if there's a simple and cheap way to make wires
01:10 est31 no there is no cablelike drawtpe
01:10 Taoki est31: Other than the drawtype though, is there an easy way to tell if a node is connected to another node throgh a third type of node?
01:11 Taoki Without using expensive and silly scans
01:12 Sokomine none that i know of. you might call find_nodes_in_area and figure out connections from that on, but...that's not connection-related
01:12 est31 Taoki, no
01:12 Taoki Yeah... sounds expensive
01:13 Taoki And like it's better that I give my devices wireless electricity... because find-node-near is easier ;)
01:19 est31 Taoki, you can use raillike drawtype if you want
01:19 est31 that finds some "near" nodes
01:19 Taoki Yep, that's a great idea. But again, the problem was detecting if two nodes are connected... which sounds very tricky
01:23 VanessaE Taoki: isn't there a line-of-sight call?
01:23 Taoki I think that's for vision
01:23 VanessaE oh.  I figured maybe it could calculate from one arbitrary position to another
01:27 Taoki What I think I can do is have a wire and wire_with_electricity. Wires can have an ABM that detect neighbors and work
01:30 Taoki I assume I can register an ABM that runs every 1 second, has 100% success chance, and detects a group like "electric_source"
01:40 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Generic CAO cleanups and renames for clarification dd91b3d http://git.io/vLiJY (2015-06-20T03:37:30+02:00)
01:43 MinetestBot [git] figec -> minetest/minetest: More correct wrap_rows implementation d7190df http://git.io/vLiJa (2015-06-20T03:41:51+02:00)
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02:49 boonscape3 Anyone on who can walk me through installing a Minetest PPA package from a prebuilt tarball I downloaded off of code.launchpad.net?
02:50 boonscape3 I am upgading to the latest version
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02:52 Sokomine ppa?
02:57 boonscape3 yes I have downloaded the minetest 0.4.12 tarball from code.launchpad.net and have unzipped it into my home directory
02:57 VanessaE boonscape3: just install the PPA the usual way, with apt-add-repository
02:57 VanessaE then remove what you have and, sudo apt-get install minetest
02:59 boonscape3 Ok will this pull the package from the repository automaticallyh or will I have to configure the package manager to pull from the repository?
03:00 VanessaE it'll be automatic
03:00 VanessaE with your usual system updates.
03:01 boonscape3 When I first did the command, I got build 0.4.9 instead of 0.4.12
03:01 VanessaE use the daily-builds PPA :)
03:01 boonscape3 I either wanted that build or 0.4.11
03:01 VanessaE and be sure you're installing "minetest" and not "minetestc55"
03:01 boonscape3 I have gotten the PPA already which is that tarball I have unzipped
03:02 VanessaE nono
03:02 VanessaE that's not "the PPA"
03:02 VanessaE that's just the tarball
03:02 boonscape3 I did get the PPA
03:02 boonscape3 I just need to load the software from the PPA
03:03 VanessaE sudo apt-get remove minetest* ; sudo add-apt-repository ppa:minetestdevs/daily-builds ; sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get install minetest
03:03 boonscape3 I did sudo apt-add-repository
03:04 VanessaE in that case, just uninstall whatever minetest version you have and run the last two commands in that line there
03:07 boonscape3 I am getting a "sources not found" error with the PPA command
03:09 VanessaE what's the exact line you used to add it originally?
03:09 boonscape3 Sudo apt-add-repository
03:10 VanessaE the whole command.
03:10 boonscape3 yes
03:10 VanessaE I mean show me the whole command.
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03:10 VanessaE the above is not enough
03:11 boonscape3 Sudo apt-add-repository ppa:minetestdevs/daily-builds
03:11 VanessaE well capital S aside, that's correct
03:12 VanessaE no idea then.  what version of ubuntu is this?
03:12 boonscape3 14.04
03:12 VanessaE hm
03:13 VanessaE I can only guess you botched the command somehow
03:13 VanessaE skim through the files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d for the ones that refer to the minetest PPA
03:13 VanessaE delete any you find, and try again
03:13 VanessaE delete files only if they only have minetest stuff in them, but not if they have other stuff too
03:14 est31 what does "apt-cache policy minetest" say?
03:14 est31 and apt-cache policy minetestc55
03:18 boonscape3 I had to romove the repositry files from the terminal as the root user
03:20 boonscape3 The package manager is pulling minetest from archive.ubuntu.com
03:20 MinetestBot [git] paramat -> minetest/minetest: Mapgen objects: Enable heatmap and humidmap for all biome api mapgens 70da8a9 http://git.io/vLiOw (2015-06-20T04:16:17+01:00)
03:21 VanessaE boonscape3: don't install it.
03:21 VanessaE just abort.
03:21 VanessaE at this point, run the command I gave you:
03:21 VanessaE sudo apt-get remove minetest* ; sudo add-apt-repository ppa:minetestdevs/daily-builds ; sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get install minetest\
03:21 VanessaE well minus that backslash at the end.
03:21 boonscape3 How do I point the package manager to the repository source?
03:22 VanessaE just run the command I gave you.
03:22 VanessaE commands*
03:22 VanessaE sudo apt-get remove minetest* ; sudo add-apt-repository ppa:minetestdevs/daily-builds ; sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get install minetest
03:22 boonscape3 Okay
03:23 VanessaE if you really *really* want the stable version, change "/daily-builds" to "/stable"
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03:29 boonscape3 Ok ut seems to be working
03:30 boonscape3 I was hopeing to get the build that supports all of the released mods that are avaliable
03:30 VanessaE the one from daily-builds does.
03:31 VanessaE the one *currently* in the stable repo, 0.4.12, doesn't support everything
03:31 VanessaE (because some modders often keep up with dailies, rather than stable)
03:32 boonscape3 Okay, but now I got the latest build which was what I wanted, thanks for helping me :-)
03:37 VanessaE yw
03:38 VanessaE in the future, updates will come as part of your normal routine
03:38 VanessaE (e.g. the "Software Updater" app that runs every so often)
03:42 VanessaE ~seen yveslevier
03:42 ShadowBot VanessaE: I haven't seen yveslevier in #minetest.
03:43 VanessaE meh
03:43 VanessaE !seen yveslevier
03:43 MinetestBot VanessaE: yveslevier was last seen at 2015-05-17 23:44:51 UTC on #minetest
03:43 VanessaE damn.
03:44 est31 ~seen VanessaE
03:44 ShadowBot est31: I saw VanessaE in #minetest 29 seconds ago saying "damn."
03:44 est31 ~seen MinetestBot
03:44 ShadowBot est31: I saw MinetestBot in #minetest 46 seconds ago saying "VanessaE: yveslevier was last seen at 2015-05-17 23:44:51 UTC on #minetest"
03:44 est31 ~seen ShadowBot
03:44 ShadowBot est31: Of course I've seen myself!
03:44 est31 works
03:53 est31 so on xanadu even the f7 thing works
03:53 est31 and no lagging behind
03:53 est31 I think its done like it should have been
03:53 VanessaE it's a different mod?
03:53 VanessaE if it's 3d-armor with wieldview, that would be why
03:54 VanessaE (the player is a custom mesh with slots for the wield item and shield)
03:54 est31 https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4654
03:54 VanessaE ninja'd :)
03:57 VanessaE so yeah, that's even more hacky than wield3d
03:59 est31 why
03:59 VanessaE because it overrides the default player model entirely
04:00 VanessaE and the wielded item I don't think is 3d, either
04:01 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/v​iewtopic.php?p=72657#p72657
04:01 VanessaE (image at the end)
04:01 VanessaE (of the post)
04:08 VanessaE well it's faked 3d (by rendering a ton of layers to thicken the item up)
04:08 VanessaE so hacky as hell :)
04:08 est31 wow
04:08 est31 almost like that shader RBA proposed
04:08 VanessaE same idea, yes
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05:06 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Small CAO improvements 14f4cd0 http://git.io/vLi4F (2015-06-20T06:58:07+02:00)
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06:02 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest: Android: use loop inside makefile to spare repetition a31d08b http://git.io/vLigI (2015-06-20T07:48:17+02:00)
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06:38 Krock moin
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09:11 Xack \o
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10:00 minos__ salut!
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10:36 CraigyDavi Does anyone know how to close a formspec within minetest.register_on_player_receive_fields?
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10:54 CWz this guy got past the spam filter
10:54 CWz https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopi​c.php?t=12655&p=182326#p182326
11:06 Jbb joined #minetest
11:06 Jbb hi
11:07 Jbb hi
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11:13 Jbb hi
11:28 Jbb fireglow: hi?
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11:29 Jbb hi
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12:04 twoelk hü hott
12:04 * twoelk looks around where the horse might be
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12:45 CWz hey OldCoder
12:46 OldCoder CWz, yo
12:51 Krock http://blueballmachine2.ytmnd.com/
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15:30 H-H-H hey guys how could i delete a node next to the one im digging from within the on_dig function?
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15:32 H-H-H hmm thinking about it cactus and papyrus do exactly what i want just on the z axis not the x
15:34 * VanessaE peeks in
15:34 bobomb z axis? up is y
15:35 H-H-H hey VanessaE :)
15:35 VanessaE hi
15:35 H-H-H bobomb thats what i meant sorry was thinking of something else
15:35 bobomb anybody ever pass a string in the seed param?
15:35 bobomb real world coordinates probably, ha
15:36 H-H-H hey VanessaE do you know if there is a default.dig_up(pos, node, digger) version for digging sideways lol
15:37 VanessaE there it not, however homedecor has routines that might be useful
15:38 H-H-H i want to delete the node next to the one im digging when the one im digging is destroyed
15:38 VanessaE that's easily done
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15:38 VanessaE the question is, in which direction do you need to delete?
15:38 VanessaE X+, X-, Z+, or Z-?
15:39 H-H-H -X
15:39 VanessaE minetest.set_node({x=pos.x-1, y=pos.y, z=pos.z}, { name = "air" })
15:40 VanessaE assuming your initial dig position is 'pos'.
15:40 H-H-H but that wont make it drop its items
15:40 H-H-H afaik
15:40 VanessaE then use the minetest.dig_node() call
15:41 VanessaE minetest.dig_node({x=pos.x-1, y=pos.y, z=pos.z})
15:41 H-H-H ty i didnt realise there was one
15:41 H-H-H that will do nicely
15:41 VanessaE but bear in mind that X and Z refer to the directions on the map
15:41 VanessaE they don't account for the node's facedir
15:42 H-H-H ahh ok :)
15:43 VanessaE to account for facedir, borrow the "dir_to_xxxxx" tables from homedecor
15:43 H-H-H thanks
15:49 H-H-H ty so much that just finiished of the meat of a mod now to do the tweaking :)
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16:23 TheWild Calinou, will you take a look at this? https://github.com/Calinou/moreblocks/pull/9
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16:28 Calinou very nicez
16:28 Calinou -z
16:28 Calinou just...
16:28 Calinou 1. they are not missing slopes, they are just new (you rarely need them; I don't consider them missing)
16:28 Calinou 2. use present tense in Git commits, not past tense
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16:29 Calinou merged
16:29 TheWild okay
16:29 TheWild thanks
16:31 TheWild I needed one of them once and then with pain discovered that it is not in the mod
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16:43 TheWild also note that new slopes don't have crafting rules yet. Why? It's because most of the crafting rules of slopes don't conform math.
16:44 TheWild there are bit more/less items used to craft than it should be
16:44 TheWild http://a140118.drivehq.com/moreblocks.pdf
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16:54 TheWild we could utilize circular saw for this. For now when something is cut, leftovers are all 1/8 microblocks. For slopes, leftovers could be 1/12 microblocks.
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17:13 TheWild Calinou, I prefer putting the crafting rules of slopes/stairs/microblocks to the trash and make a need of circular saw to do this stuff. What do you think?
17:16 TheWild ^ of course I mean only no disable rules for breaking stuff into smaller pieces, but not for coupling smaller pieces to larger
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17:28 boonscape3 How do I use the mining drill to mine?
17:29 Calinou TheWild, there's literally no recipe conflicts
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17:29 Calinou if you think the recipes bloat the code files, I can move them to separate files
17:29 VanessaE Calinou: don't forget to refresh your models from the ones in slope_test
17:29 VanessaE (the glitched shadows/normals)
17:30 * Calinou DuckDuckGoes to find forum topic...
17:30 Calinou works great :P
17:30 Calinou https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=159276
17:30 Calinou this?
17:31 boonscape3 How to you use the mining drill?
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17:31 VanessaE Calinou: yep, that's the one.  you want the "onetexture" models, specifically.
17:32 Calinou if you have some time you can send a pull request, I'll happily accept it :P
17:32 Calinou tedious to rename all meshes one by one :(
17:32 Calinou or wait after June 24, if you don't want to send a PR
17:32 VanessaE in the time you spent chatting just now, you coulda done it ;)
17:33 VanessaE (besides, I'm too lazy to make a PR :) )
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17:39 boonscape3 How to you use the mining drill?
17:42 TheWild Calinou, back to the crafting rules. I'm not afraid about conflicts - there is always a choice to select distinct rule. However, I want to throw them out because it's generally not trivial to make crafting rule exact.
17:42 VanessaE boonscape3: charge it in a battery box and then just dig with it
17:43 TheWild currently 1/2 slope uses 3 full blocks and 3 quarter blocks, that is 15 quarter blocks to produce 7 slopes, where we expect to use 14 slopes.
17:43 TheWild *14 quarter blocks
17:43 Calinou it doesn't matter if there's a slight loss
17:43 Calinou however, there should be no gain
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17:44 TheWild there is actually bit time consuming rule that products more blocks than were used to craft, so...
17:45 TheWild I am pro no-loss no-gain
17:51 boonscape3 I am needing help on how to use the mining drill, will any help me please?
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18:10 VanessaE boonscape3: charge it in a battery box and then just dig with it
18:10 VanessaE (like you'd dig with a shovel or pick)
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19:13 Taoki Hmm... isn't there a version of drawtype_raillike that can also go up walls?
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19:14 ElectronLibre I've never seen such a feature.
19:14 ElectronLibre At the moment rails can only be placed on the ground, and ceils, not walls.
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19:14 ElectronLibre Well, rails and raillike drawtype nodes.
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19:49 TheWild project not finished with comment: -- How the hell I can know the list is a single nodebox or list of nodeboxes
19:55 TheWild Calinou, I am going to touch circular_saw.cost_in_microblocks to add support for slope-leftovers. Is there something I should know before doing it?
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20:09 Calinou TheWild, I think we should stick to having only microblocks in leftover, for simplicity's sake
20:09 Calinou (by the way, I'm considering putting circular saw in a circular mod)
20:09 Calinou like it used to be
20:09 Calinou make moreblocks into a modpack, ship moreblocks + circular_saw
20:09 Calinou so lightweight users can disable the circular saw if they wish
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20:16 ThatGraemeGuy VanessaE: are you around?
20:18 TheWild can I hold arbitrary additional data inside node definition?
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20:21 VanessaE I am here, TheWild
20:21 VanessaE ThatGraemeGuy *
20:21 VanessaE TheWild: yes, with metadata.
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20:27 ThatGraemeGuy VanessaE: there seems to be a recipe conflict between homedecor/building_blocks and gloopblocks
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20:27 VanessaE what's the conflict?
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20:28 ThatGraemeGuy gloopblocks defines 4 sticks in a square to make regular planks, building_blocks defines 4 sticks in a square to make "small bundle of sticks"
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20:28 ThatGraemeGuy which i need to make the upscale office chair from homedecor
20:30 VanessaE ah ok
20:30 VanessaE I'll fix that soon
20:30 ThatGraemeGuy thanks :)
20:31 ElectronLibre Poor freenode opers... So much /connects to do :/
20:31 sfan5 they don't have to do any connects at all
20:31 sfan5 also this is just 1 server
20:31 ElectronLibre Wait, how do you know that?
20:32 ElectronLibre (In second thoughts yes this may be a single and same server who disconnected but how do you know they don't need to /connect ?)
20:32 ElectronLibre s/In/On
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20:59 TheWild sorry about constantly asking, but is this ok to add more explanatory comments to others code?
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21:21 TheWild player:get_inventory():set_lists() just crashed minetest
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21:31 realbadangel__ TheWild, post that in #dev with crash log
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21:33 TheWild nope, I'm on Windows
21:34 TheWild it does not log anything specific, just crash and good bye
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21:34 TheWild just try on singleplayer: minetest.get_player_by_name('singlep​layer'):get_inventory():set_lists()
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22:11 MinetestBot [git] RealBadAngel -> minetest/minetest: Remove textures vertical offset. Fix for area enabling parallax. 53efe2e http://git.io/vL1Dr (2015-06-21T00:11:09+02:00)
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23:25 Taoki Does anyone know if there's a way to disable the punch animation when left-clicking while wielding certain items? So it doesn't look like you're punching with a bow when you are shooting it for instance.
23:32 RealBadAngel imho thats not hard to do
23:32 RealBadAngel would require a flag for that just
23:33 RealBadAngel like a general flag for everything if that could be used on something
23:33 RealBadAngel so you wont swim your hand with dirt for example
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