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IRC log for #minetest, 2015-06-09

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:11 AndroidKris anyone know about world anchors?
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01:57 * Sokomine_ looks around
01:57 Sokomine_ oh. why do i have an underscore in my nick?
02:01 AndroidKris Hey, you wouldn't know anything about admin/world anchors would you sokomine?
02:08 Sokomine AndroidKris: i know that such a thing exists (for keeping part of a world loaded). i had never use to really use them. it's too far against the concept of the game to depend on it...
02:08 Sokomine if you want any machines to run while you're absent, consider a ressource-friendly /giveme :-)
02:08 Sokomine (after you've built the machine as a proof of concept)
02:09 AndroidKris lol, that's not machines running though. that's cheating at it's most basic definition.
02:09 AndroidKris I prefer my cheatery to be shrouded in at least a little bit of mystery
02:10 Sokomine and tortue the poor server with it? :)
02:10 AndroidKris My pc can handle it.lol
02:11 Sokomine still...
02:11 * Sokomine secretly puts AndroidKris into creative mode
02:11 AndroidKris Nuuuuuuuu........
02:11 AndroidKris I like to work for my spoils
02:11 * AndroidKris fightes Sokomine
02:11 AndroidKris fights*
02:12 AndroidKris I have actually got a world I load up when I want to be in creative mode.
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02:59 * Pilcrow182 is attempting something crazy and trying to fit 25 anime episodes on one dvd :P
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03:12 Sokomine yes, i know the feeling. i usually use survival with giveme. it seems to be easier to control the game that way
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04:10 technomancy Pilcrow182: hey
04:11 Pilcrow182 hi technomancy! how are you?  :)
04:11 technomancy I did some more brainstorming yesterday and came up with this https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=47&t=12517
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04:31 Pilcrow182 sorry technomancy, I am a slow reader and quite distracted at the moment. I just looked at your link though, and its a very good idea...  :)
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04:35 Pilcrow182 technomancy: also, I see you mention using position strings as addresses, and that's probably the best idea anyway, but you may also be interested in these two functions: http://dev.minetest.net/mi​netest.hash_node_position and http://dev.minetest.net/mine​test.get_position_from_hash
05:00 technomancy Pilcrow182: I actually want to support accepting several different types but probably normalizing it down to a pos
05:03 Pilcrow182 yeah, as I said, a pos string makes sense. I was just pointing out the hash functions because they are useful sometimes, and not many know they exist.  :P
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05:53 technomancy yeah cool; thanks
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06:22 technomancy Pilcrow182: one interesting question is whether diginet should be based on digilines or just wireless
06:26 Pilcrow182 that's a good question. I'm not sure which would be best. I do think wireless would be faster, as digilines sort of uses a node-by-node chain reaction, AFAIK...
06:27 technomancy yeah... I think you could do cool things with digilines networking, but I'm not sure it's worth the overhead
06:27 technomancy it seems like you could just calculate the full extent of the network any time a digiline was placed or destroyed and used the cached graph rather than simulating the movements of packets along the lines, but that's not how it works
06:28 technomancy plus the wireless implementation is vastly simpler; I've got a basic POC in a page and a half
06:29 Pilcrow182 possibly make it wireless, but make a diginet-to-digilines reciever? then you wouldn't have to sacrifice the possibility of doing 'cool things'  :P
06:31 technomancy yeah, some kind of bridge
06:33 Pilcrow182 anyway, it's after 1:30am here and I need to go to bed.
06:33 Pilcrow182 goodnight, technomancy  o/
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06:40 technomancy cheers Pilcrow \o
06:40 technomancy "ServerError: error in error handling" welp =\
06:45 technomancy is meta:get_string() etc guaranteed to never return nil?
06:47 technomancy like it would just return an empty string for uninitialized keys?
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07:44 technomancy sweeeeeet; got communications between terminal and server working over diginet
07:44 technomancy aw yiss \m/
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08:49 JamesTait Good morning all; happy Cars Day! 😃
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08:54 mazal Morning everyone , does anyone know if there is a way to protect technic machines from being dug , but still allow everyone to use the input/output slots ?
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10:20 Calinou Chromium syntax highlighter add-on https://github.com/tsenart/sight
11:02 Calinou Minetest reached 1,500 stars on GitHub
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14:01 luizrpgluiz hi all :)
14:02 ADFENO Hi. :D
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14:02 Megaf Hi all, can any German speaking translate this please? http://paste.debian.net/plain/215949
14:02 Megaf I caugh two German griefers destroying things on my server
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14:03 Megaf Hi luizrpgluiz
14:03 luizrpgluiz hi megaf :)
14:13 luizrpgluiz has anyone ever used the dynvpn before?
14:14 sfan5 Megaf: something about mithril, a pickaxe and how much time they have left
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14:15 Megaf sfan5: I got that :P
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14:30 Megaf where do I upload an image to?
14:30 Megaf Calinou: ^
14:30 kilbith https://lut.im/
14:31 Megaf thats fast
14:31 Megaf thanks
14:32 Megaf https://lut.im/erYfd1Tv/KDeFwJLP
14:33 Megaf :)
14:35 Megaf Minetest server is not using much ram, I think they fixed most of memory leaks
14:37 Jordach <JD-Pub> Server has been running for 984:04:15 one more day and a few hours to 1k hours uptime
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14:38 luizrpgluiz yes, but it depends on the mods that use the server
14:39 luizrpgluiz :)
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14:46 Megaf Jordach: thats 41 days
14:47 Jordach ikr
14:47 Megaf 1000 hours
14:47 Jordach 0.4.11 doesn't crash :O
14:47 Megaf minetest@mt:~$ uptime
14:47 Megaf 10:47:18 up 69 days,  4:11,  2 users,  load average: 0.02, 0.03, 0.01
14:48 Megaf Jordach: it does, just use World Edit
14:48 Megaf 69 days :)
14:48 Jordach i just dislike everyone shitting themselves over security
14:48 Jordach or big issues which aren't problems
14:49 Megaf well, my minetestserver at least once a day to backup and update, and the system itself is rebooted every kernel update
14:49 Megaf Calculating upgrade... Done
14:49 Megaf 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
15:00 Jordach Megaf, jordach@jordach-net $ uptime 15:00:16 up 118 days,  19:42,  2 users,  load average: 0.06, 0.06, 0.05
15:04 Megaf Jordach: that's cute
15:04 Megaf :P
15:06 Calinou 17:06:25 up 2 days,  2:52,  2 users,  load average: 0,11, 0,17, 0,12
15:06 Calinou this is my VPS
15:06 * Calinou VPS peasant
15:08 * Jordach pets Calinou
15:09 Jordach >0.4.9, minetest, v6
15:09 Jordach WHAT YEAR IS IT
15:09 Calinou 0.4.9, minetest, v6, Windows 95
15:13 Calinou Jordach, http://i.imgur.com/8X7uPPd.png
15:13 Calinou that's like your VPS vs mine
15:13 Jordach ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ
15:14 Jordach also
15:14 est31 Jordach, which minetest version does your server run?
15:14 Jordach 0.4.11 for non-MT-license-friendly-apps
15:14 Jordach there's still tons of em
15:14 est31 ?
15:15 Jordach est31, there are still tablet users on 0.4.11
15:15 est31 yes, but 0.4.12 also supports 0.4.11
15:15 est31 so clients on 0.4.11 can connect to 0.4.12 servers
15:15 Jordach mod security is bullshite
15:16 * est31 wonders whether he can crash Jordach's server from remote
15:17 Jordach lmao
15:17 Jordach spotify's backend went down
15:19 Jordach http://a.pomf.se/nhldfe.png
15:21 Calinou Spotify France!
15:21 Calinou le hoodedice
15:21 est31 Jordach, explain why it is bullshit
15:21 Calinou and sfan5
15:21 sfan5 ?
15:21 Jordach est31, i think it would be plainly fucking obvious that you don't run MT as root
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15:22 Jordach oh right, devs still cater to the uninformed useless idiot
15:22 sfan5 Calinou: ?
15:22 est31 Jordach, yes you shouldnt run it as root
15:22 est31 but defense goes in layers
15:22 Jordach defense is checking whether the mod uses os.execute
15:23 sfan5 hm
15:23 est31 not in "Hey they only gain shell access to a low privileged user"
15:23 ADFENO Hi... How do I use minetest.sound_play with a file name different than "modname_filename"? Like "alarm"?
15:23 sfan5 !py __import__("os").popen("uptime").read()
15:23 MinetestBot ' 15:23:14 up 22 days,  9:05,  0 users,  load average: 0.16, 0.10, 0.09\n'
15:23 MinetestBot [git] HybridDog -> minetest/minetest: More reliable serverlist behaviour 05f4e9e http://git.io/vI26T (2015-06-09T16:44:43+02:00)
15:23 est31 Jordach, so you do a grep for OS.execute?
15:23 est31 what if sb does local a = OS a.execute
15:23 Jordach est31, preferably
15:23 Jordach or
15:24 Jordach you could just check the mods goddamn source
15:24 sfan5 exio4: os not OS
15:24 est31 also if they have control over your user account they can use your server as a botnet
15:24 Jordach tl;dr rare and pointless defence against a non-existant threar
15:24 Jordach you're pointing nukes at a fucking mouse
15:24 sfan5 oops
15:24 exio4 yes sfan5
15:24 sfan5 est31: os not OS
15:24 * sfan5 hugs exio4
15:24 est31 sfan5, whatever
15:25 est31 Jordach, you want people to read source for every mod out there=
15:25 est31 or do you trust everybody
15:25 Jordach est31, common sense
15:25 * exio4 hugs sfan5 back <3
15:25 Jordach is it a popular mod done by someone who's well known?
15:25 sfan5 est31: did you know that minetest uses LUA for MODS?
15:25 est31 can you install my ssh keys on your box pls? it seems you trust everybody
15:26 Jordach est31, most of my server runs my own custom mods
15:26 est31 Jordach, great you can write programs, not everybody can
15:26 est31 yes executing minetest as root is stupid
15:26 Jordach est31, stupid rules shouldn't affect power users
15:26 sfan5 wait what
15:26 sfan5 icy-title: Timbaland feat. Keri Hilson & D.O.E. mit The Way I Are
15:26 sfan5 "The Way I Are"
15:26 sfan5 wot
15:26 Jordach or someone with actual intelligence
15:27 Jordach lowest common denominator is bullshit
15:27 est31 and I +1 every pull request which makes minetest exit and print an error message if it runs as root
15:27 est31 Jordach, whats a stupid rule for you?
15:28 Jordach est31, the console even with sandboxing should shout: "there's an execution of the terminal / CLI here, do something"
15:28 Jordach let people know that function alone is being used
15:29 Jordach and this occurs during server start: to tell the server operator to enable or disable the mod
15:29 est31 Jordach, lua is a too dynamic language for that.
15:29 Jordach bullshit
15:29 Jordach enforce it at the API level
15:29 est31 thats precisely what mod security does
15:29 est31 it removes the API call
15:29 Jordach idiot
15:30 sfan5 <Jordach> let people know that function alone is being used
15:30 sfan5 <Jordach> and this occurs during server start
15:30 sfan5 uhh
15:30 est31 Jordach, can you please speak like a civilized human? thank you.
15:30 sfan5 static analysis isn't perfect
15:30 est31 ^
15:31 est31 doing 100% waterproof lualint is much much harder than writing a sandbox
15:32 est31 so stop trolling please until you understand basic concepts of security
15:32 est31 also, minetestserver is no interactive tool
15:33 est31 it cant do things like "do you want to disable this mod, enable, do this or that"
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15:40 ADFENO Hi, we are trying to play a chat sound when an administrator types a command (say "/alert", for example), the sound is in OGG, but it's not being played with minetest.sound_play... Doest someone know what might be the problem?
15:44 est31 and it seems I can crash 0.4.11 servers from remote
15:44 est31 too lazy to try it out though
15:52 ADFENO Well... We tried to use mono audio... but with no success...
15:53 ADFENO We even tried variations using the mods' path + the file name (without .ogg extension), but with no luck.
15:55 est31 ADFENO, does it display some error message
15:55 est31 ?
15:59 ADFENO Just a moment.... ....
16:02 ADFENO No... It doesn't display errors...
16:02 * Megaf throws more moments at ADFENO I case is they are needed
16:02 Megaf in case they are*
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16:02 Megaf Oo
16:04 ADFENO Sorry for that.... I'm not the server host.... and he is someohat slow to understand what I say. :D
16:07 Megaf so get the server host here
16:07 Megaf lol
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16:09 ADFENO And so here he is. :D
16:09 Undertaker hi
16:10 ADFENO Undertaker is the server host. And as you all know, we 're trying to get an OGG file to play. :D
16:11 ADFENO The server logs don't display anything. :D
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16:13 Undertaker http://pastebin.com/6Pg3dX83
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16:39 Undertaker someone ?
16:41 H-H-H usually helps if you explain what the problem is
16:42 H-H-H bah wrong window lol
16:42 H-H-H sorry
16:42 VanessaE actually it would still help.
16:42 Undertaker ...
16:42 VanessaE good morning.
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16:42 VanessaE Undertaker: what is the problem you're having?
16:42 exio4 hi
16:43 VanessaE hi
16:43 Undertaker My friend ADFENO has already explained
16:43 VanessaE oh yeah, there he is
16:43 Undertaker someone here called me here
16:44 VanessaE not sure then
16:46 Undertaker OK, i'm trying to play a sound with a command in the server, the intention is to make it play to alert players, I created the sound effect using the lmms
16:47 ADFENO Hi all... I'm back...
16:49 ADFENO And... as he just said, we're trying to use minetest.sound_play to play a small audio file ("an alarm", for that matter). :D
16:50 ADFENO But when using:somthing like:
16:50 ADFENO minetest.sound_play("alarm")
16:51 ADFENO It does nothing.
16:51 VanessaE func = function(administrador, texto_do_alerta)
16:51 sfan5 uhh
16:51 VanessaE pretty sure you need to write that differently.
16:51 sfan5 ADFENO: that's not how the functions works
16:52 sfan5 http://dev.minetest.net/minetest.sound_play
16:52 sfan5 wait no
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16:52 luizrpgluiz hi all
16:53 ADFENO VanessaE: Regarding "(administrador, texto_do_alerta)"...
16:53 VanessaE ADFENO: no
16:53 VanessaE ADFENO: regarding the "func = " part.
16:54 VanessaE most likely that needs to be function = function(blahblah)
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16:54 ADFENO ... The "administrador" is like the "name", and "texto_do_alerta" is like "params".
16:55 sfan5 VanessaE: foo = function(bar, baz) is valid lua
16:56 Undertaker hi luizrpgluiz
16:56 VanessaE sfan5: sure, but if register_chatcommand doesn't know what to do with table entry 'foo' that won't work.
16:56 VanessaE however in this case I'm wrong, apparently it really DOES need to be "func ="
16:56 sfan5 ADFENO: is the alarme.ogg in the sounds folder of the mod?
16:57 sfan5 VanessaE: oh you mean that, yes it's needs to be func
16:57 VanessaE sfan5: what nitwit thought it was a good idea to abbreviate "function" as "func" everywhere AND include literal uses of the word "func"? :P
16:58 ADFENO Well.. It's in the root of the mod directory, where the init.lua is.
16:58 sfan5 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
16:58 sfan5 ADFENO: it should be in a directory called sounds
16:59 ADFENO Hm...
16:59 ADFENO Interesting...
17:00 ADFENO I was just wondering if the wiki had such information and I accidentally overlooked it.
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17:03 HtxzZ77 hello
17:03 HtxzZ77 :)
17:03 ADFENO Hi HtxzZ77. :D
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17:16 Undertaker haha! thanks a lot
17:16 Undertaker now is working
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17:17 ADFENO Thanks a lot...
17:19 ADFENO Also... It might be a good idea to the reader of the minetest.sound_play wiki page that it plays a sound from the sounds folder.
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17:22 Undertaker I can share the sound
17:22 exio4 Calinou: ping? http://dpaste.com/11EKWDX
17:22 Undertaker is like a nuclear alarm
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17:24 Calinou exio4, meh
17:24 Calinou that benchmark doesn't compare with mine at all
17:24 Calinou it would be unfair to include it in my suite :P
17:24 Calinou yours is 163 lines
17:24 Calinou mine are 40 lines at most
17:24 exio4 why are you counting lines?
17:24 exio4 I am using whitespace for the sake of it in that code
17:24 exio4 and basically avoiding a few combinators because why not
17:25 exio4 example, function at line 29
17:25 exio4 it goes til line 38
17:25 exio4 that's 9 lines, it only needs 2
17:26 exio4 40-65 can be 5~6 lines
17:26 exio4 I am also adding type signatures, even though the aren't needed
17:27 exio4 line 90-92, could be a single line
17:27 exio4 X ; return Y is the same as Y <$ X, yet I wrote the long version
17:27 exio4 declaring local variables instead of using fix $ \loop ->, avoiding one line
17:27 exio4 there are 40 lines of dead code, too
17:28 exio4 (well not actual dead code, it's only because there are two modes, benchmark and not)
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18:03 exio4 Calinou: well, I got the total line count to 66 lines, counting imports and 25 lines of boilerplate
18:04 exio4 is it good enough for your standards?
18:05 exio4 note, it's also doing a lot of useless work because it's keeping intermediate values and then throwing them away
18:05 exio4 because your original "forced ordering"
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18:46 TheWild are there plans to move the protocol from UDP to TCP? Of course I don't mean that UDP is bad.
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18:46 Calinou unlikely
18:46 Calinou maybe we'll switch to something like enet in the future
18:46 Calinou (but enet doesn't support IPv6)
18:47 Calinou TCP is just slow for real-time games
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18:48 est31 if enet doesnt support ipv6, I will vote against inclusion
18:48 Krock TheWild, every game tends to use TCP from beginning. We have UDP, so why do you think there would be a change?
18:49 kilbith how is useful to support ipv6 ?
18:49 Calinou est31, there's an issue on its GitHub
18:49 Krock kilbith, to let the fridge play Minetest
18:49 Calinou Krock, Quake uses UDP. :-)
18:49 est31 kilbith, ipv6 is the future, ipv4 will die
18:49 Calinou and that's how you can get 50ms ping
18:49 Krock est31, some things are called dead since years but are still alive
18:49 est31 I know this sounds like one of calinou's "tabs in 2015 srsly?" arguments
18:50 Megaf !up mt.megaf.info
18:50 MinetestBot mt.megaf.info:30000 is up (8ms)
18:50 Megaf :)
18:50 Krock Calinou, 50ms is too less
18:50 Megaf but I miss the time when it used to get 2ms
18:50 Calinou est31, well I'll use tabs if the language specification says so
18:50 Calinou eg. in most system languages
18:50 Calinou Atom has a package to display the current indentation mode, as well as auto-detecting it
18:50 Krock there must be a ping of at least 5s
18:50 est31 spaces are ugly
18:50 est31 they require your editor to be smart
18:50 est31 I dont like smart editors
18:51 est31 smart editors have huge startup times and are laggy
18:51 est31 its not that they are bad
18:51 Calinou Atom's my default editor now
18:51 Calinou starts in 2.5 seconds, works well with files up to ~50 KB I'd say
18:51 Calinou it now uses tile-based rendering
18:51 est31 atom is a nice editor, but I prefer kate because it isnt so bloaty
18:52 Calinou most editors feel too basic, or have ugly color schemes
18:52 Calinou Atom Dark is a great color scheme
18:52 Calinou I should port it everywhere ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
18:52 est31 I like light color schemes
18:52 Calinou that hurts my eyes :P
18:53 Krock dark makes tired.
18:53 TheWild about editor: anyone knows any good IDE that has all that autocompletion stuff (indentation, quotes, closing brackets, tags etc.), but has all that options disabled by default?
18:54 Krock best is to use neon-purple and neon-green if possible
18:56 Calinou TheWild, Atom is entirely modular
18:56 Calinou you can edit all its lines of CoffeeScript code, and LESS styles
18:57 TheWild okay, I'll look for that
18:59 Calinou it uses a package system, you can also disable core packages
18:59 Calinou (do disable the metrics package!)
19:01 Sokomine hmpf. now i see why this isn't working.....the skyblock blocks get too high for the one at the bottom to be loaded
19:03 TheWild I'm using Crimson Editor at home, years ago found in on a CD from some PC magazine when I had no internet yet. It's not very extensible and pretty old but enough for crafting my own stuff.
19:05 TheWild Netbeans at work, but it adds a second " and disabling it doesn't work. It's a bug, reported by many and not fixed by years. Well, I tried some other IDEs but NetBeans was least evil.
19:06 TheWild Eclipse - again disabling autocompletion. And what are the perspectives. PHP storm unable to open two projects in the same window.
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19:18 Junko hello :D
19:19 Junko i installed minetest the other day, never played minecraft to be honest
19:19 Junko :D
19:21 Junko Calinou; :DDDDDDDDDDD
19:21 Junko so glad to see you
19:23 TheWild yet shallow protocol analysis: I found that biggest packets are sent by servers but no packet was bigger than 520 bytes.
19:24 Calinou hi Junko
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19:47 AndroidKris Is there a way to view all of the messages from the chat?
19:48 AndroidKris Like are they in a saved document somewhere in /.minetest?
19:49 Sokomine AndroidKris: type f10
19:50 AndroidKris I mean like a physical copy that I can cut and paste somewhere, I keep getting an error sent through there and I'd like to figure out why, and what the error means.
19:54 est31 no
19:54 est31 you have to type it :
19:54 est31 ))
19:57 Junko how do i view
19:57 Junko backlog of the chat
19:58 est31 f10
20:04 VanessaE new mod:  https://github.com/VanessaE/nixie_tubes
20:07 AndroidKris I wish there was a way to turn the technic quarries on their side to mine horizontally.
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20:08 alket is there a car mod or something, something you can drive
20:09 AndroidKris a boat
20:09 AndroidKris alket^^
20:09 alket yes I know boat, something for the ground :)
20:09 AndroidKris Mine cart
20:09 alket you know what i mean :p
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20:09 VanessaE there is a cars mod, yes
20:09 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=7381
20:10 alket thanks VanessaE
20:10 alket also Cart is very bad, its minining game and cart lags :p
20:10 AndroidKris I know, I'm being facetious.
20:10 VanessaE alket: happens with all entities.
20:11 Teckla Can anyone here suggestion a mod or mods that adds animals to the game?
20:11 Teckla (For my daughter)
20:11 Teckla s/suggestion/suggest/
20:11 VanessaE Teckla: MOBF.
20:11 Teckla VanessaE: Thank you kindly  :)
20:12 Teckla Can mods be added to worlds that already exist?  My daughter and I have built a lot on our shared world and would hate to start over.
20:12 est31 yes
20:12 Teckla Cool beans, thanks thanks  :)
20:12 VanessaE https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=629 (ignore the broken screenshots)
20:12 * Teckla <3 Minetest
20:13 Teckla Thank you for the link
20:14 Teckla Hopefully I'll have time to apply it otnight
20:16 AndroidKris Also with that modpack, I believe you can disable the hostile creatures so that the only ones left are all docile.
20:17 Teckla Good to know, thanks!
20:19 Calinou you mean BLOATF?
20:19 Calinou :)
20:20 Calinou Teckla, you can use Carbone Mobs with spawn_hostile_mobs = false in minetest.conf
20:20 Calinou only rats and sheep will spawn
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20:27 Junko wtf
20:27 Junko my whole session crashed this time Calinou
20:31 MinetestBot [git] est31 -> minetest/minetest_game: Add patch files to gitignore f09ae11 http://git.io/vIVpm (2015-06-09T22:01:25+02:00)
20:36 VanessaE there, now the nixie_tube mod has a proper forum post:  https://forum.minetest.net/vi​ewtopic.php?f=11&amp;t=12537
20:36 est31 nice
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21:11 Amaz Hm, in the terminal output of minetest, it assigns numbers to objects such as mobs.
21:11 Amaz Is there a way to access and put data to these numbers in game?
21:19 Amaz Or rather, how do I find out the object id of a particular entity?
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21:29 Amaz I need to go now, but I'll check the logs tomorrow :)
21:29 bobomb joined #minetest
21:30 bobomb canyone help me with formspec?
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21:35 bobomb how do you assemble the fields in a table formspec, do you still use minetest.show_formspec()?
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22:45 Sokomine was the texture for cotton changed yet again?
22:46 kilbith no
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23:28 zBuilder can a texture pack cause addons to generate rrors?
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