| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
Birdy_ |
Hi frogle6 :) |
| 00:00 |
frogle6 |
hi what is up with inchra.nety? |
| 00:00 |
Birdy_ |
Exactly what I was thinking . |
| 00:01 |
frogle6 |
I messaged vanessa to see no repense yet |
| 00:01 |
Birdy_ |
Same here |
| 00:02 |
Birdy_ |
I thought I was the only one experiencing that inchra isn't working . |
| 00:07 |
MinetestBot |
[git] kwolekr -> minetest/minetest: Make get_biome_list() error message more helpful 522acf9 http://git.io/vkliy (2015-05-28T20:04:50-04:00) |
| 00:42 |
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| 01:09 |
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| 01:10 |
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| 01:10 |
zat |
wiki.minetest.com is telling me that I am the 1,000,000th visitor and that a reward is awaiting |
| 01:10 |
zat |
!! |
| 01:12 |
zat |
the reward is an Apple product OMFG!!!! thanks Minetest wiki!!!!!!!! |
| 01:12 |
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| 01:13 |
zat |
the banner also states "this is not a joke", whew that's a relief. |
| 01:13 |
* Ep1cMaN |
waves hello to everyone |
| 01:13 |
VanessaE |
zat: heh. |
| 01:14 |
zat |
VanessaE: fuckyea |
| 01:14 |
VanessaE |
Y U NO RUN an adblocker? |
| 01:17 |
init |
;-; |
| 01:17 |
init |
I should change my nick |
| 01:23 |
zat |
VanessaE: for it breaks sites |
| 01:24 |
VanessaE |
not really |
| 01:25 |
zat |
VanessaE: I have experienced breaks |
| 01:26 |
VanessaE |
better a few broken sites than to be plastered with ads. |
| 01:26 |
zat |
I am not that bumb to be tricked by ads though |
| 01:26 |
zat |
bumb... dumb lol |
| 01:26 |
VanessaE |
... |
| 01:26 |
zat |
bowb |
| 01:46 |
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| 05:52 |
air |
what would cause on_receive_fields not to be called when closing a formspec? |
| 06:04 |
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| 06:09 |
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| 06:40 |
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| 06:41 |
mccomase |
?msg OldCoder can you get me a fish skin for new york server |
| 06:47 |
OldCoder |
glub glub yes |
| 06:50 |
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| 07:46 |
CWz |
OldCoder: hello |
| 07:49 |
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| 08:24 |
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| 08:25 |
lordawe |
hi guys |
| 08:25 |
lordawe |
i have an OT question, can somebody help me with VPN issue? |
| 08:26 |
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| 08:39 |
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| 08:40 |
JamesTait |
Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Learn About Composting Day! 😃 |
| 08:43 |
alket |
yeah, happy Friday |
| 08:45 |
technomancy |
I have a formspec that closes when I hit enter, but I'd like it to keep open |
| 08:45 |
technomancy |
what's the trick for this? |
| 08:53 |
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| 08:58 |
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| 09:28 |
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| 09:28 |
Thron |
what is that config line again to save world offline?? |
| 09:29 |
CWz |
enable_local_map_saving = true |
| 09:31 |
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| 10:15 |
Megaf_ |
Thron: hi |
| 10:16 |
Megaf_ |
Thron: enable_local_map_saving = true |
| 10:16 |
Thron |
Thx Megaf!! |
| 10:17 |
Megaf_ |
You're welcome |
| 10:17 |
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| 10:36 |
meldrian |
quick, is there a command to put out all the fires at once? |
| 10:36 |
rubenwardy |
Disable fire mod |
| 10:36 |
rubenwardy |
Actually, 1sec |
| 10:37 |
rubenwardy |
/set -n disable_fire true |
| 10:37 |
rubenwardy |
No need to restart |
| 10:38 |
rubenwardy |
And you aren't left with unknown nodes |
| 10:39 |
meldrian |
aaaaaaaaawesoooooooome.... you saved my forest rubenwardy |
| 10:43 |
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| 12:37 |
OldCoder |
CWz, moin |
| 12:37 |
* OldCoder |
is still asleep |
| 12:39 |
Zeno` |
It's rare to see sleep-typers; when you do you know the person is truly dedicated to IRC |
| 12:40 |
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| 12:44 |
Megaf_ |
Zeno`: so, I'm writing a SH that will send a text to a file |
| 12:45 |
Zeno` |
yeah ok, so echo blah > test.txt |
| 12:46 |
Megaf_ |
cat << EOF > Test.txt |
| 12:46 |
Megaf_ |
This is a test |
| 12:46 |
Megaf_ |
EOF |
| 12:46 |
Megaf_ |
this doest what I want I think |
| 12:46 |
Megaf_ |
does* |
| 12:46 |
Zeno` |
echo blah2 >> test.txt |
| 12:46 |
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| 12:46 |
Megaf_ |
|
| 12:46 |
Megaf_ |
cat << EOF > Test.txt |
| 12:46 |
Megaf_ |
Line1 |
| 12:46 |
Megaf_ |
Line2 |
| 12:46 |
Megaf_ |
Line3 |
| 12:46 |
Megaf_ |
EOF |
| 12:47 |
Megaf_ |
got it? |
| 12:47 |
Megaf_ |
:) |
| 12:47 |
Jordach |
i was expecting ShadowBAOT |
| 12:47 |
Zeno` |
lol, not really |
| 12:47 |
Jordach |
ShadowBot even |
| 12:47 |
Zeno` |
maybe ask in ##bash :P |
| 12:47 |
Megaf_ |
ShadowBoat |
| 12:47 |
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| 12:48 |
Megaf_ |
Zeno`: s/##bach/#bash |
| 12:49 |
Megaf_ |
Hi est31 |
| 12:51 |
Megaf_ |
[13:49] <pgas> correct |
| 12:51 |
Megaf_ |
[13:49] <izabera> looks correct |
| 12:51 |
Megaf_ |
[From #bash] |
| 12:51 |
est31 |
on #bash they have a bot that validates bash input |
| 12:51 |
est31 |
rly cool |
| 12:53 |
Megaf_ |
I've seen it once, really cool indeed |
| 12:54 |
YvesLevier |
Greetings |
| 12:58 |
YvesLevier |
EOF = ^Z? |
| 12:59 |
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| 12:59 |
est31 |
not on sane operating systems |
| 12:59 |
est31 |
so yes for dos |
| 12:59 |
init |
in this case, EOF is just a word |
| 12:59 |
est31 |
but unix has ^D |
| 13:00 |
Zeno` |
why do you need to append EOF? |
| 13:00 |
init |
he could have used cat << DOG > test.wtf |
| 13:00 |
Zeno` |
it should be done automatically |
| 13:00 |
init |
it was a literal |
| 13:00 |
est31 |
ah yea |
| 13:00 |
init |
if he used ^D he didn't need to use that |
| 13:00 |
est31 |
for heredocs you can use what you want |
| 13:00 |
Zeno` |
yeah ^D is probably what I'd use, but I still don't understand the purpose of this :) |
| 13:00 |
init |
it is for scripts or similar |
| 13:00 |
init |
help() { |
| 13:01 |
Zeno` |
I think windows requires two ^D though |
| 13:01 |
Zeno` |
not sure |
| 13:01 |
init |
cat << EOF |
| 13:01 |
init |
program : ... blablabla |
| 13:01 |
YvesLevier |
yes |
| 13:01 |
init |
moar blah |
| 13:01 |
init |
EOF |
| 13:01 |
YvesLevier |
that was i was reading back |
| 13:01 |
YvesLevier |
sometimes i scrool (scroll?) this chat |
| 13:01 |
init |
this `EOF` is 4not ^D/^Z, it's just an arbitrary word |
| 13:02 |
Zeno` |
init, you're correct |
| 13:02 |
init |
I haven't read the scrollback, sorry then :p |
| 13:02 |
Zeno` |
which is why I am confused lol |
| 13:02 |
init |
cat << DOG |
| 13:02 |
init |
wat |
| 13:02 |
init |
DOG |
| 13:02 |
YvesLevier |
Ô i see |
| 13:02 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Zeno- -> minetest/minetest: (Android) Only simulate holding down fast key if fast_move is toggled to true addf3ee http://git.io/vkBXD (2015-05-29T22:59:21+10:00) |
| 13:03 |
Zeno` |
hey, that's me! |
| 13:03 |
Zeno` |
I'd better hide |
| 13:03 |
init |
omg you broke everything Zeno` |
| 13:03 |
YvesLevier |
Zeno`: Plz dont |
| 13:04 |
Zeno` |
haha |
| 13:04 |
init |
http://www.monzy.com/intro/drama_lyrics.html |
| 13:05 |
init |
mfw my FX is like idk, insanely faster than my netbook |
| 13:05 |
init |
>importing hour and half of audio |
| 13:05 |
init |
>6 seconds |
| 13:05 |
init |
I needed 2~ minutes on my laptop |
| 13:06 |
Zeno` |
I think I have a major problem |
| 13:07 |
Zeno` |
either I've broken Fedora or my internet sucks (or both) :( |
| 13:07 |
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| 13:10 |
init |
Zeno`: fedora breaks itself, don't worry |
| 13:10 |
Zeno` |
phew |
| 13:10 |
* Zeno` |
feels very relieved now |
| 13:12 |
init |
amazing, audacity's noise removal is pretty good |
| 13:15 |
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| 13:43 |
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| 13:43 |
Gael-de-Sailly |
Hi |
| 13:43 |
Gael-de-Sailly |
What happens to inchranet ? |
| 13:44 |
est31 |
wow, the dns expired?? |
| 13:45 |
Gael-de-Sailly |
http://osiris.inchra.net/ : is it normal ? |
| 13:46 |
est31 |
just connect to the ip addresses instead |
| 13:46 |
Gael-de-Sailly |
er… yes but which IP ? |
| 13:49 |
est31 |
176.9.29.178 |
| 13:50 |
Gael-de-Sailly |
Thank you |
| 13:51 |
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| 13:51 |
rubenwardy |
lol |
| 13:53 |
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| 13:56 |
technomancy |
is there any kind of convention or common patterns around the use of communicating over digilines? |
| 13:57 |
technomancy |
or even some kind of listing of nodes/mods that use it? |
| 14:07 |
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| 14:36 |
est31 |
can somebody host a server that would otherwise go offline? |
| 14:36 |
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| 14:39 |
VanessaE |
est31: what server? |
| 14:39 |
est31 |
trepca |
| 14:40 |
est31 |
forum here (only established to have communication medium when the server goes down): https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=12245 |
| 14:40 |
est31 |
map here: http://alket.mooo.com/map |
| 14:41 |
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| 14:41 |
catninja |
If I would want the latest version of minetest on debian, what do I have to do? |
| 14:41 |
catninja |
am I just missing something? |
| 14:42 |
VanessaE |
catninja: compile it :) |
| 14:42 |
VanessaE |
est31: not a heavily-built map huh |
| 14:43 |
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| 14:44 |
est31 |
server is 3 months old |
| 14:44 |
VanessaE |
oh that's a lot for 3 montha |
| 14:44 |
VanessaE |
months* |
| 14:44 |
VanessaE |
looks about like VE-Vanilla, but it took a year to get to its current state |
| 14:45 |
catninja |
VanessaE: I was afraid of that *sigh* ok then. |
| 14:45 |
VanessaE |
catninja: nah, compiling it easy |
| 14:47 |
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| 14:47 |
catninja |
VanessaE: and scary |
| 14:48 |
VanessaE |
nope |
| 14:48 |
rubenwardy |
Compiling on Linux is very easy |
| 14:48 |
rubenwardy |
and is worth it overall |
| 14:48 |
est31 |
especially if you have package management |
| 14:48 |
Megaf_ |
catninja: i'm working on a shell script to download minetest, all dependencies and compile everything on its own |
| 14:48 |
est31 |
compiling on LFS is a bit tricky |
| 14:48 |
est31 |
but on debian, you can just type apt-get this and that |
| 14:49 |
rubenwardy |
git clone http://github.com/minetest/minetest && cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 -DBUILD_SERVER=0 && make -j2 |
| 14:49 |
est31 |
so its very easy |
| 14:49 |
rubenwardy |
oops |
| 14:49 |
rubenwardy |
git clone http://github.com/minetest/minetest && cd minetest && cmake . -DRUN_IN_PLACE=1 -DBUILD_SERVER=0 && make -j2 |
| 14:49 |
rubenwardy |
see |
| 14:49 |
rubenwardy |
!g calinou 1 line install script |
| 14:49 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=3837 |
| 14:49 |
est31 |
try the "portable" installs part |
| 14:50 |
rubenwardy |
In my C++ project I have this line: typedef unsigned char byte; |
| 14:50 |
rubenwardy |
Do you hate me? XD |
| 14:50 |
Megaf_ |
catninja: https://github.com/Megaf/Minetest4Debian |
| 14:50 |
catninja |
rubenwardy: even if it is easy it feels wierd to run commands that makes no sense to me. |
| 14:50 |
Megaf_ |
catninja: download the script, https://github.com/Megaf/Minetest4Debian/archive/master.zip |
| 14:50 |
Megaf_ |
catninja: extract them, |
| 14:51 |
Megaf_ |
then run InstallDependencies.sh as root |
| 14:51 |
rubenwardy |
git clone downloads the source. cd moves to a folder. cmake configures the build. make builds it. |
| 14:51 |
Megaf_ |
and InstallMinetest.sh as normal user |
| 14:52 |
proller |
your license much longer than actual code |
| 14:53 |
proller |
here much better version: https://github.com/freeminer/freeminer/blob/master/build/debian_ogles.sh |
| 14:53 |
rubenwardy |
est Minetest source code and it's games. |
| 14:53 |
rubenwardy |
* its |
| 14:53 |
rubenwardy |
:P |
| 14:53 |
est31 |
but that clones freeminer |
| 14:54 |
est31 |
freeminer isnt minetest :p |
| 14:54 |
proller |
luckily |
| 15:01 |
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| 15:16 |
algun |
!up 87.110.8.195 |
| 15:16 |
MinetestBot |
87.110.8.195:30000 seems to be down |
| 15:19 |
catninja |
followed the readme on github |
| 15:19 |
catninja |
*githell |
| 15:27 |
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| 16:07 |
Megaf_ |
!server Megaf |
| 16:07 |
MinetestBot |
Megaf_: Megaf Server v4.0 | mt.megaf.info:30003 | Clients: 1/11, 0/3 | Version: 0.4.12-Megaf / MegafXploreNext | Ping: 6ms |
| 16:10 |
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| 16:30 |
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| 16:33 |
Krock |
Hello people! |
| 16:34 |
ElectronLibre |
Hello Krock. |
| 16:34 |
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| 16:34 |
hoodedice |
!seen people |
| 16:34 |
MinetestBot |
hoodedice: Sorry, I haven't seen people around. |
| 16:35 |
Calinou |
I have 576 projects starred on GitHub \o/ |
| 16:35 |
Calinou |
soon 600 |
| 16:35 |
hoodedice |
inb4 project update notification pings + email spam |
| 16:35 |
hoodedice |
also, bootlooping phone yaay |
| 16:36 |
Krock |
Calinou, give stars to my projects, they're geat :P |
| 16:36 |
Krock |
*great |
| 16:36 |
NekoGloop |
!seen MinetestBot |
| 16:36 |
MinetestBot |
NekoGloop: minetestbot was last seen at 2014-12-20 16:51:58 UTC on #minetest-de |
| 16:36 |
Krock |
!seen ShadowBot |
| 16:36 |
MinetestBot |
Krock: shadowbot was last seen at 2014-11-08 00:35:55 UTC on #minetest |
| 16:36 |
hoodedice |
~seen MinetestBot |
| 16:36 |
hoodedice |
...where is shadowbot |
| 16:36 |
ElectronLibre |
ShadowBot seems dead. |
| 16:36 |
Krock |
That was the point of my !seen command :P |
| 16:37 |
rubenwardy |
I like looking at what Clainou stars |
| 16:37 |
rubenwardy |
* Calinou |
| 16:37 |
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| 16:37 |
ElectronLibre |
Since inchranet lost its domain name it was apparently disconnected. |
| 16:37 |
Krock |
Username autocomplete ftw :P |
| 16:37 |
hoodedice |
d'aw |
| 16:37 |
hoodedice |
> Clainou |
| 16:37 |
Clainou |
you made this? i made this |
| 16:38 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/stars/Calinou/ |
| 16:39 |
rubenwardy |
I have 28 starred |
| 16:39 |
rubenwardy |
Soon to be 30! |
| 16:39 |
Zeno` |
90! |
| 16:39 |
Clainou |
2! |
| 16:39 |
Clainou |
*me 2! |
| 16:40 |
Clainou |
(missed a huge opportunity for puns) =( |
| 16:44 |
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| 16:45 |
hoodedice |
how to spam terminal. Step 1. Connect android phone to PC via USB with debugging. Step 2. adb logcat |
| 16:46 |
rubenwardy |
Today I made a cpp file which included its self |
| 16:46 |
rubenwardy |
Preprocessor stack overflow errors |
| 16:47 |
rubenwardy |
Thousands of lines |
| 16:47 |
hoodedice |
I once called a self calling method, what do you call that? |
| 16:47 |
|
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| 16:47 |
hoodedice |
stack overflow #java |
| 16:47 |
rubenwardy |
recursion? |
| 16:48 |
rubenwardy |
Basically, inside of writing #include "filename.hpp" I wrote #include "filename.cpp" |
| 16:48 |
rubenwardy |
in filename.cpp |
| 16:48 |
rubenwardy |
And there were thousands of lines like |
| 16:48 |
hoodedice |
yes, recursion. |
| 16:49 |
rubenwardy |
In /home/rubenwardy/dev/project/src/filename.cpp, |
| 16:52 |
Zeno` |
mutually recursive is better |
| 16:53 |
* Megaf_ |
is confused with the nick Clainou |
| 16:53 |
|
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| 16:53 |
Megaf_ |
Clainou and Calinou are very similar |
| 16:54 |
twoelk |
don't know if Clainou has a meaning |
| 16:57 |
|
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| 16:58 |
Megaf_ |
[17:35] <Calinou> I have 576 projects starred on GitHub \o/ |
| 16:58 |
Megaf_ |
heh, Today I deleted a lot of projests i had on GitHub |
| 16:58 |
Megaf_ |
projects* |
| 16:59 |
Megaf_ |
I'm goind to dedicate my time to a single thing now |
| 16:59 |
Megaf_ |
going* |
| 17:00 |
Megaf_ |
meh, I make typos a lot. |
| 17:00 |
twoelk |
been there, tried that, didn't work |
| 17:07 |
Megaf_ |
twoelk: multiple stuff at the same time for the win! |
| 17:08 |
hoodedice |
in other news, Segoe UI scales down really really bad. Wanted to use it as default font on android =/ |
| 17:09 |
rubenwardy |
Do you guys approve of my macro? https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/56a8bacc26c09207172a |
| 17:09 |
Megaf_ |
hoodedice: the droid font was specially designed to scale down |
| 17:09 |
hoodedice |
I would suppose so, Megaf_ |
| 17:10 |
Megaf_ |
so no need to try other fonts, I tried already |
| 17:10 |
hoodedice |
but what with windows trying to be a mobile OS, I thought that segoe would play nice |
| 17:10 |
hoodedice |
Arial. |
| 17:10 |
hoodedice |
Arial always works |
| 17:10 |
hoodedice |
Everywhere |
| 17:11 |
* Megaf_ |
is attempting to use Shell Script functions |
| 17:11 |
Megaf_ |
and I'm pretty sure I'm doing it wrong |
| 17:11 |
hoodedice |
I don't get the "->" in C++ |
| 17:11 |
hoodedice |
I tried googling it but hehehe, googling symbols amirite |
| 17:11 |
Megaf_ |
lol |
| 17:11 |
Megaf_ |
/Build.sh: EOF: not found |
| 17:11 |
hoodedice |
> EOF not found |
| 17:12 |
hoodedice |
> hell has no bottom |
| 17:12 |
hoodedice |
> that file is hell confirmed |
| 17:12 |
Megaf_ |
heh |
| 17:12 |
Calinou |
hoodedice, Roboto! |
| 17:12 |
Calinou |
its source files were recently released |
| 17:12 |
Calinou |
also consider Noto |
| 17:13 |
Megaf_ |
Ok, I have no idea why my SH tried to actually run the EOF |
| 17:15 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/ncb000gt/node.bcrypt.js/commit/183f8162e3973e8257334fc0db2290b22a0296c3 |
| 17:16 |
Calinou |
“Copyright (c) 2101†|
| 17:16 |
Calinou |
even Warzone 2100 doesn't reach this level of copyright |
| 17:17 |
hoodedice |
Noto looks beautiful |
| 17:18 |
hoodedice |
if only I could keep the Segoe UI numbers... |
| 17:19 |
Calinou |
is it just me, or should one pronounce “Segoe†like “Segway� |
| 17:19 |
Calinou |
in any case, hoodedice, http://github.com/google/fonts |
| 17:19 |
Calinou |
1700 free/libre fonts |
| 17:20 |
hoodedice |
I say it as "Say-Go" |
| 17:20 |
Megaf_ |
[18:19] <Megaf_> .pr segoe |
| 17:20 |
Megaf_ |
[18:19] <Brainstorm> Megaf_, Pronunciation of segoe in English: [sˈiËɡə͡ʊ — ] |
| 17:20 |
Megaf_ |
Calinou: ^ |
| 17:20 |
hoodedice |
help, don't know how to read gibberish =D |
| 17:20 |
Calinou |
I'm now at 589 starred repos |
| 17:20 |
hoodedice |
star some of mine |
| 17:20 |
hoodedice |
hint: won't update any |
| 17:21 |
Calinou |
also check out https://github.com/trending on a regular basis |
| 17:21 |
Megaf_ |
segoe -> seegay? |
| 17:21 |
|
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| 17:21 |
Megaf_ |
segoe -> sˈiËɡə͡ʊ -> seegay? |
| 17:22 |
hoodedice |
> seegay |
| 17:22 |
hoodedice |
TIL fonts have sexuality |
| 17:22 |
K-Dog |
WERNERWARD |
| 17:23 |
Calinou |
cool site http://cssnext.io/ |
| 17:23 |
rubenwardy |
"You can literally write future-proof CSS and forget old preprocessor specific syntax. " |
| 17:24 |
rubenwardy |
"You can literally write future-proof CSS and forget old preprocessor specific syntax. " |
| 17:24 |
rubenwardy |
"You can LITERALLY write future-proof CSS and forget old preprocessor specific syntax. " |
| 17:24 |
rubenwardy |
:( |
| 17:24 |
hoodedice |
idontgetit.jpg |
| 17:24 |
Calinou |
lite-Stunt-Rally |
| 17:24 |
rubenwardy |
The word is completely redundant in that sentence |
| 17:25 |
Megaf_ |
[18:24] <Megaf_> .w literally |
| 17:25 |
Megaf_ |
[18:24] <Brainstorm> Megaf_, literally — adverb: 1. (speech act) word for word; not figuratively; not as an idiom or metaphor, 2. (degree, proscribed) used non-literally as an intensifier for figurative statements: virtually (often considered incorrect; see usage notes), 3. (colloquial) Used as a generic downtoner: just, merely — http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/literally |
| 17:25 |
rubenwardy |
literally != basically |
| 17:25 |
init |
rubenwardy: it is a hipster thing, what do you want? |
| 17:25 |
rubenwardy |
literally != simply |
| 17:25 |
init |
rubenwardy: something useful? sadly, you may be looking at the wrong place |
| 17:26 |
hoodedice |
literally is what happens when you allow post modernism to get too much of a foothold on things in the real world |
| 17:26 |
hoodedice |
bbl |
| 17:27 |
* twoelk |
doesn't like litterbugs |
| 17:27 |
rubenwardy |
1. is the only real usage there, the others are slangish |
| 17:33 |
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| 17:38 |
Megaf_ |
does C has functions? Or that's C++ thingy? |
| 17:38 |
rubenwardy |
it does |
| 17:38 |
rubenwardy |
C++ adds classes (records which have member functions) |
| 17:40 |
Megaf_ |
ok, I'm learning about functions now |
| 17:40 |
Megaf_ |
I converted all my shell script in several funcions before figuring out how they work |
| 17:40 |
Megaf_ |
functions* |
| 17:41 |
rubenwardy |
It's not worth (IMO) learning C unless you want to work on OSs |
| 17:41 |
Megaf_ |
rubenwardy: I don't want to :) |
| 17:41 |
Krock |
..or with microcontrollers |
| 17:45 |
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| 17:46 |
Calinou |
learn JavaScript, soon you'll be able to make operating systems in it :D |
| 17:46 |
Krock |
<.< |
| 17:46 |
catninja |
Evil buggy OS |
| 17:46 |
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| 17:50 |
catninja |
compiling stuff was neither fun or easy ;___; |
| 17:51 |
catninja |
Megaf_, VanessaE + ruben thx for the help anyway |
| 17:51 |
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| 17:53 |
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| 17:53 |
Megaf_ |
lol catninja |
| 17:54 |
catninja |
I just needed the update to run one thing for fun. and ended up spending 2h on compiling and githell |
| 17:55 |
catninja |
"why are you such a bitch this evening?" |
| 17:56 |
catninja |
I'm just gonna sit here in my corner and be grumpy |
| 17:57 |
Calinou |
compiling Node stuff is fun :3 |
| 17:58 |
catninja |
what do you mean? |
| 17:59 |
catninja |
I just wanted too be able to run my testworld to show what I'm working on |
| 18:01 |
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| 18:02 |
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| 18:02 |
bobomb |
is there an API method for reading an image pixel by pixel? |
| 18:04 |
Krock |
how would you put those informations into a Lua table? It would use way too much RAM |
| 18:04 |
Krock |
so: no, there is no API method yet |
| 18:04 |
Krock |
But you can open bitmaps using binary file functions |
| 18:04 |
bobomb |
no just to read the value of a pixel at x,y |
| 18:05 |
bobomb |
these would just be lua functions? |
| 18:05 |
init |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS5P_LAqiVg |
| 18:05 |
init |
Calinou: node.js is a fucking joke |
| 18:05 |
init |
Calinou: it's just javascript with even more hacks on top of it |
| 18:06 |
Krock |
yes, it has to be done with Lua only and there are no image reading functions |
| 18:06 |
init |
Calinou: JS is pretty crappy too, and if someone calls it an easy language it is because they ignore 90% of javascript |
| 18:06 |
Krock |
-> you'll have to write your own functions |
| 18:06 |
init |
(which are the exceptions to rules and exceptions) |
| 18:06 |
init |
just like there are exceptions to the rule, in JS there are rules for the exceptions and exceptions to those |
| 18:10 |
zat |
init: what kind of hacks? |
| 18:10 |
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| 18:11 |
init |
zat: most of the idiomatic things in Javascript are just hacks, even silly things like !!which should be trivially identity |
| 18:11 |
init |
the* |
| 18:11 |
init |
zat: the weak typing makes up half the need of hacks |
| 18:11 |
init |
zat: the other half is not using JS's good things and instead of ignoring them |
| 18:11 |
init |
zat: JS's scoping is also a little bit.. broken |
| 18:12 |
zat |
so, what hacks? |
| 18:12 |
init |
!!, === |
| 18:13 |
zat |
? |
| 18:13 |
init |
the `class` OOP done previous to ES6, and the classes added by ES6 |
| 18:13 |
zat |
there are no classes, the class keyword is syntactic sugar. |
| 18:13 |
init |
using floats by default is also a silly thing, you basically made your operations non associative |
| 18:13 |
init |
zat: yes, it's just syntatic sugar for people that ignore the few good parts of JS |
| 18:14 |
zat |
its a scripting language isn't it? |
| 18:14 |
init |
so? |
| 18:14 |
init |
it doesn't need to suck because you can write scripts with it |
| 18:14 |
zat |
its your opinion |
| 18:14 |
init |
it's not just mine |
| 18:15 |
Krock |
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=180065#p180065 it'a actually a serious mod. |
| 18:15 |
zat |
not just? then you must be 100% right. :) |
| 18:15 |
zat |
no doubt |
| 18:15 |
init |
zat: it's a little bit more than an opinion, you can ask anyone that learnt/knows a few languages on different paradigms |
| 18:16 |
zat |
I have |
| 18:16 |
init |
a few static type systems, a few strict and dynamic type systems |
| 18:16 |
zat |
I have |
| 18:16 |
zat |
but my opinion sure won't count for you because I think differently :P |
| 18:16 |
init |
nah |
| 18:17 |
init |
but you're the first one to say that |
| 18:17 |
init |
what's your background? |
| 18:17 |
|
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| 18:18 |
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Kenney joined #minetest |
| 18:19 |
zat |
about 20 years of profesionally developing software for desktop in BASIC,Pascal,C,C++ and now web servers PHP, Ruby, JS |
| 18:19 |
Krock |
Kenney, congratulations! 7 pages and still no download link. I think we're all totally excited. |
| 18:19 |
init |
zat: only those languages? any language that isn't imperative? |
| 18:20 |
Kenney |
Hah well sorry about that, just want to answer everyones questions. Also, X month hiatus in between ;) |
| 18:20 |
init |
zat: SML? OCaml? Scheme? Haskell? Prolog? Mercury? Coq? |
| 18:20 |
zat |
init: no, sorry for being so mainstream, my lack of paradigm shiftness will now surely invalidate every opinion I might have. |
| 18:20 |
init |
no, but it sure will change it |
| 18:21 |
zat |
oh god those are no no-mainstream! |
| 18:21 |
zat |
:P |
| 18:21 |
init |
I thought the way you did til I learnt SML |
| 18:21 |
zat |
so* |
| 18:21 |
Kenney |
The new pixel artist is doing an excellent job however and I can concentrate on actual content now |
| 18:21 |
zat |
init: what do you know of the way I think? |
| 18:21 |
init |
I don't know anything |
| 18:21 |
* twoelk |
was drawn to Voxus by the graphical style and now fears what change might come |
| 18:21 |
Krock |
^ |
| 18:22 |
init |
I am talking about myself, though, I thought pretty much the same way until I started switching paradigms |
| 18:22 |
Kenney |
Oh no worries, it'll still rock |
| 18:22 |
zat |
ah you once suggested SML I remember and I had a look on it. |
| 18:22 |
Kenney |
I've gotten him to remake the grass sprite 4 times now hah |
| 18:22 |
zat |
I decided it was no useful for me |
| 18:22 |
init |
https://www.coursera.org/course/proglang |
| 18:23 |
Krock |
Kenney, for(remake same thing) do motivation--; end |
| 18:23 |
zat |
I know the fad of functional programming |
| 18:23 |
Kenney |
money, motivation++; |
| 18:23 |
zat |
and the fad of paradigm shifts |
| 18:23 |
Krock |
but voxus is non-profit... |
| 18:23 |
init |
zat: those languages aren't useful because they are used, but because their concepts are useful! |
| 18:23 |
init |
it's more using languages as a tool |
| 18:23 |
Kenney |
Yep, paying with my own money |
| 18:24 |
Kenney |
hoping it could return in donations some day |
| 18:24 |
zat |
back in reality, software needs to do a job and do it in a way so others can contribute. |
| 18:24 |
twoelk |
I actually like the cheery but not overlly candy brightness of the color scheme, the slight pastellic charme |
| 18:24 |
Krock |
Well, it's kinda hard to get donations here, I wish you good luck with this try. |
| 18:25 |
Kenney |
The public domain game assets I create however do fund the current development time |
| 18:25 |
init |
zat: it's more like you can't miss what you don't know |
| 18:25 |
Kenney |
so no worries |
| 18:25 |
init |
(no, I am not saying you don't know the concepts I am practically selling) |
| 18:26 |
zat |
init: actually its more like I cannot afford to become an amateur programmer in a neverending research of new stuff. |
| 18:26 |
init |
zat: yeah, I'll give you that learning FP is pretty starting nearly from scratch when it comes to thought and problem solving |
| 18:27 |
zat |
I know some that are all the day talking about non-mainstream languages and different paradigms, all are unemployed. |
| 18:27 |
Calinou |
<Kenney> Yep, paying with my own money |
| 18:27 |
* Calinou |
elects Kenney as the next Mark Shuttleworth |
| 18:27 |
Calinou |
his motto: “Great, but not infinite pockets†|
| 18:27 |
Calinou |
:) |
| 18:27 |
init |
zat: most jobs looking for non-mainstream languages aim pretty high, I'll give you that one too |
| 18:27 |
Kenney |
Hah oh well I struck a good deal with the artist which I feel okay with, I know it will benefit the quality of the graphics |
| 18:28 |
init |
half of the places want someone with a PhD :p |
| 18:28 |
twoelk |
does the artist feel ok also? |
| 18:28 |
zat |
init: thats just the same propaganda of the Python people |
| 18:28 |
Kenney |
he'll be doing 200 textures/items for now, that's the first batch |
| 18:28 |
Kenney |
Yep absolutely, he made up the price |
| 18:28 |
Kenney |
I just agreed :) |
| 18:28 |
Calinou |
200? :o |
| 18:28 |
init |
zat: is it? |
| 18:29 |
Kenney |
well, lots of tiles will be simple alternatives. Grass top tiles are 5 right now |
| 18:29 |
Kenney |
Grass sprites are 8 |
| 18:29 |
Kenney |
here's me hoping random textures will ever be a thing, instead of having to create additional nodes |
| 18:30 |
twoelk |
argh, that will clutter the texture folders even more with tiny texture files. I wish we could use some texture atlas at times |
| 18:30 |
Kenney |
^ would love that too man |
| 18:30 |
zat |
"we do things differently but better, no doubt" (in their opinion) |
| 18:30 |
zat |
"we do the things the right way" (in their opinion) |
| 18:30 |
zat |
"our user base is not as big as X but we get better jobs" (lies) |
| 18:31 |
twoelk |
maybe a textureatlas per node might allready help |
| 18:31 |
Kenney |
http://puu.sh/i51Wf/1818b4cdd2.png clutter clutter clutter |
| 18:31 |
Kenney |
Yeah, sorta like an animation texture but it would select a random frame |
| 18:31 |
Kenney |
problem solved! |
| 18:31 |
zat |
python developers I know of, about 20, 18 are unemployed. The two left are coding in something else. |
| 18:32 |
zat |
php developers I know, all employed |
| 18:32 |
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| 18:32 |
Kenney |
btw I lied it seems |
| 18:32 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/cjb/GitTorrent/blob/master/README.md |
| 18:32 |
zat |
JS developers I know, all employed |
| 18:32 |
init |
zat: being employed writing PHP isn't that hard |
| 18:32 |
Kenney |
Grass top tiles are 7 and grass sprites are 11...geez |
| 18:32 |
zat |
I haven't said otherwise |
| 18:32 |
init |
zat: the same goes with JS |
| 18:32 |
zat |
also, most of those languages are multi-paradigm. |
| 18:33 |
rom1504 |
init: that's the point |
| 18:33 |
init |
zat: I'd say most places looking for PHP/JS don't even look for quality but for quantity |
| 18:33 |
zat |
thats because web developers sux |
| 18:33 |
init |
most of the people I know working with PHP or JS, look forward for switching to something decent |
| 18:33 |
twoelk |
hm, animation sequence chosen with a freeze in animation |
| 18:34 |
zat |
I have seem (an FIXED) many switches to Ruby, Python or Microsoft things. |
| 18:34 |
twoelk |
the freezing point chosen at random |
| 18:34 |
zat |
newbie developers brainwash their employers and make them switch to messy platforms. |
| 18:34 |
Kenney |
oh btw I will release the old Voxus tiles as public domain later on |
| 18:34 |
twoelk |
great |
| 18:35 |
Kenney |
probably also see to create an alternative default texture pack with them for Minetest\ |
| 18:35 |
init |
zat: Ruby/Python/C# were languages known to don't change anything in the middle, and being half-solutions to the problems they solved |
| 18:35 |
twoelk |
I was just preparing a List of Textures for the wiki as I have made for the games |
| 18:36 |
zat |
init: normally the switches are not to solve anything |
| 18:36 |
zat |
the only switch I would do from would be PHP |
| 18:36 |
init |
because the problem is also that companies look quantity over quality |
| 18:36 |
init |
switching from PHP to what? |
| 18:36 |
zat |
no whatever not PHP |
| 18:36 |
init |
Ruby, Python, C#, Java don't really improve anything at the long term |
| 18:36 |
zat |
to* |
| 18:37 |
zat |
Its not the language, it's how you use it. |
| 18:37 |
rom1504 |
, c++ |
| 18:37 |
twoelk |
havn't included Voxus in the List of Games yet as there is nothing to download - as of yet |
| 18:37 |
zat |
It's a huge mistake to think that the language makes the quality of the product. |
| 18:37 |
zat |
In some cases it affect certain things, no more. |
| 18:38 |
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| 18:38 |
init |
it doesn't, it sure helps in the long term if the costs of maintenance are lower, most languages aim for the short-term return, though |
| 18:39 |
twoelk |
and yet a good song or poem makes use of the language it is writen in as much as possible |
| 18:39 |
twoelk |
good programming should be similar |
| 18:39 |
zat |
init: and a widely known language means less cost in maintenance. |
| 18:39 |
init |
does it? |
| 18:39 |
twoelk |
bah all them english songs :-( |
| 18:40 |
zat |
yes, specially if I am able to find a developer of said language in time |
| 18:40 |
init |
I won't deny you can hire 40 PHP developers and get them working within a week |
| 18:41 |
zat |
Ruby developers are not many over here, an old employer was stuck with a software made in Ruby |
| 18:41 |
init |
the problem is that it is still aiming too much for quantity not quality |
| 18:41 |
zat |
he tried to find a single Ruby developer for months |
| 18:41 |
zat |
in the end I fixed that mess and without even knowing Ruby. |
| 18:42 |
zat |
He made me port the server to PHP, which I did not want to but had to do it anyway. |
| 18:42 |
init |
learning new syntax is relatively easy |
| 18:42 |
rom1504 |
I don't understand why people hire "X developper", surely people can learn new languages ? |
| 18:42 |
est31 |
^ |
| 18:42 |
zat |
rom1504: not really |
| 18:42 |
init |
learning a language is different to master it |
| 18:42 |
init |
you can learn Ruby in a week if you know Python and PHP |
| 18:42 |
zat |
languages with a low entry barrier normally result in incompetent coders. |
| 18:43 |
init |
being able to write idiomatic code is a different thing |
| 18:43 |
twoelk |
and learning costs time and thus money |
| 18:43 |
zat |
about all php developers I know can't understand anything but php |
| 18:43 |
zat |
same for people that learn python first thing ever |
| 18:43 |
Calinou |
there are very competent Python developers |
| 18:43 |
init |
really few |
| 18:44 |
est31 |
but python is a language made for beginners |
| 18:44 |
zat |
there are very competent PHP developers too |
| 18:44 |
est31 |
not for masters |
| 18:44 |
Calinou |
it's made for everyone |
| 18:44 |
rom1504 |
if you know lot of stuff about algorithms, paradigms and techniques (network, concurrency,...) that's enough to write decent code in a new language in a reasonable amount of time |
| 18:44 |
zat |
that includes beginners |
| 18:44 |
init |
Python/Ruby/PHP/JS aim at "lower short-term cost, higher logn-term cost" |
| 18:44 |
init |
rom1504: paradigms! |
| 18:45 |
init |
rom1504: but those languages aren't mainstream duh! |
| 18:45 |
zat |
Ruby is not a bad language, it is normally underestimated. |
| 18:45 |
init |
Calinou: "Python"? http://bob.ippoli.to/python-haskell-ep2014/ |
| 18:45 |
est31 |
js and php are very mainstream |
| 18:45 |
zat |
JS is too complicated. |
| 18:45 |
init |
I didn't say it wasn't, I actually like it (given that you can't use Smalltalk) for pedogical purposes |
| 18:45 |
zat |
PHP has remains of being a templating language |
| 18:46 |
Calinou |
Ruby isn't the easiest to read |
| 18:46 |
zat |
and that's what has made it horribler every new version. |
| 18:46 |
Krock |
btw, what's te state of the PHP-JIT project? I thought there was something active |
| 18:46 |
Calinou |
there's literally a market of PHP accelerators |
| 18:46 |
init |
Calinou: you shouldn't aim for being easier to read to someone who doesn't know the language, though |
| 18:46 |
Calinou |
zat, did you give Laravel a try? |
| 18:46 |
Calinou |
good languages are easy to read for everyone, init |
| 18:46 |
Calinou |
this is why they favour “and†and “or†instead of && and || |
| 18:47 |
zat |
Calinou: I am avoiding PHP at all costs. |
| 18:47 |
zat |
I developed 3 frameworks for PHP by the way. |
| 18:47 |
init |
Calinou: good languages are easy to mantain |
| 18:47 |
init |
Calinou: not easy to read |
| 18:47 |
rom1504 |
hire haskell programmers to be sure the people you hire can learn the language you actually need :p |
| 18:47 |
init |
being easy to mantain means that you can reason locally about code |
| 18:48 |
init |
the code _looking_ easy doesn't mean it is easy, either |
| 18:48 |
init |
because programming, is sadly, hard |
| 18:48 |
Calinou |
people should strive to make programming easier, this is how you actually get high-quality software, rather than being elitist |
| 18:48 |
zat |
the worst are those that try to make a programming language look like plain english |
| 18:48 |
Calinou |
Git made it easy for people to contribute, instead of having to give .patch files generated by hand |
| 18:49 |
Calinou |
it lets people write higher-quality software |
| 18:49 |
zat |
super wrong |
| 18:49 |
est31 |
but its entry barrier is very high |
| 18:49 |
init |
no, making programming `easier` at the cost of safety, correctness, performance, ... is basically wrong |
| 18:49 |
rom1504 |
"you can reason locally about code" : yes, this is so true, when you got code that is interdependant with everything in the whole project, you'll have to understand everything in the project to fix just a small thing |
| 18:49 |
Calinou |
est31, there are tons of “git cheat sheetsâ€Â around that help demystify Git |
| 18:49 |
est31 |
you get high quality software by standards and guidelines |
| 18:49 |
Calinou |
init, computers are faster than ever |
| 18:49 |
Calinou |
there are pretty safe languages like Rust, that are still modern |
| 18:49 |
zat |
lowering the entry barrier yields a huge base of inexperienced programmers thinking they are experienced |
| 18:50 |
Calinou |
est31, it's up to language developers to set them up |
| 18:50 |
Calinou |
sadly most don't |
| 18:50 |
init |
language developers? |
| 18:50 |
Calinou |
(see GDScript, reduz has no intent to put official guidelines) |
| 18:50 |
init |
you mean those who designed the language? |
| 18:50 |
est31 |
language developers should design a language not what to do with it |
| 18:50 |
init |
they shouldn't set those kinds of guidelines you are thinking about |
| 18:50 |
init |
what est31 said |
| 18:50 |
zat |
guidelines are language independent |
| 18:50 |
init |
there's no `one-size-fits-all` guideline, it's up to the task |
| 18:51 |
est31 |
thats true too |
| 18:51 |
Calinou |
syntax guidelines are probably not language-independent |
| 18:51 |
init |
Calinou: some languages were designed with flexibility in their syntax as one of the core things |
| 18:51 |
zat |
thats a different matter and have little impact in the quality of the resulting software for the user |
| 18:51 |
est31 |
they do have impact |
| 18:51 |
init |
because syntax is the least of your problems, unless it's C++ |
| 18:51 |
est31 |
but mostly destructive impact |
| 18:52 |
zat |
I said little |
| 18:52 |
Calinou |
init, it leads to inconsistency, and thus head-scartching |
| 18:52 |
zat |
in compiled language it is little |
| 18:52 |
init |
Calinou: it doesn't |
| 18:52 |
Calinou |
like “why do they use “or†here, and || there?†|
| 18:52 |
zat |
that's code quality |
| 18:52 |
zat |
no resulting software quality |
| 18:53 |
init |
Calinou: about code quality, there are one hundred things I can argue about that most languages do wrong, one of those is trying to look exactly like english |
| 18:53 |
zat |
I can compile from a blob of extremely obfuscated code and the resulting software will be still good |
| 18:53 |
init |
english is a natural language, and isn't extremely precise |
| 18:53 |
est31 |
but you can't build that kind of software zat |
| 18:53 |
est31 |
noone is smart enough for that |
| 18:54 |
zat |
init: that's the mistake of python fanboys, they argue that looking like english is precisely a strength |
| 18:54 |
est31 |
ofc there are people who can demystify the largest goto spaghetti |
| 18:54 |
zat |
est31: I cannot do what specificaly? |
| 18:54 |
rom1504 |
english isn't context-free |
| 18:54 |
est31 |
but if you want to add a certain feature |
| 18:54 |
est31 |
then you will need to know how |
| 18:54 |
est31 |
and for that you'll need to know exactly how the code behaves |
| 18:54 |
init |
rom1504: you can still be context-sensitive in your grammar and not be ambiguous |
| 18:55 |
init |
rom1504: (the layout rule is context-sensitive, as an example) |
| 18:55 |
est31 |
the best way to do that is by having self-documenting code |
| 18:55 |
rom1504 |
yeah but english's context is not really well defined |
| 18:55 |
rom1504 |
it can be anything |
| 18:55 |
init |
the code looking like english is the wrong kind of self-documenting code |
| 18:55 |
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| 18:56 |
init |
most clean code I found, is too `terse`, and could be considered unreadable by some people, not because it's hard to understand, but because you need to think when you read the code, and it is not because the code is clever, but because the code is a doing a lot |
| 18:57 |
init |
if you have 2 lines with 40 characters each, that do the work of 2 big functions of 40 lines each |
| 18:58 |
twoelk |
maybe code should look like Latin. Thats a rather precise language compared to modern ones ;-P |
| 18:58 |
init |
I would have said lojban |
| 18:58 |
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| 18:59 |
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techner joined #minetest |
| 18:59 |
techner |
hello, i need help with mesecons mod |
| 18:59 |
techner |
I installed it |
| 18:59 |
techner |
but, when loading the game |
| 18:59 |
techner |
the next error code appears: |
| 18:59 |
techner |
.minetest/mods/mesecons_main/mesecons_torch/init.lua:79: attempt to perform arithmetic on field 'LIGHT_MAX' (a nil value) |
| 19:00 |
techner |
I try to create a depends.txt with default |
| 19:00 |
techner |
but it doesn't work |
| 19:00 |
zat |
conclusion, JS is cool |
| 19:01 |
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| 19:01 |
init |
weak typing is insane from a debugging perspective though |
| 19:01 |
init |
most bugs I have had in dynamic languages would have been caught with a stronger type system |
| 19:02 |
twoelk |
maybe most js haters try to use it for jobs it was not designed for. |
| 19:03 |
init |
I agree |
| 19:03 |
init |
node.js is plain wrong |
| 19:03 |
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| 19:03 |
init |
green threads would be a nicer approach to concurrency |
| 19:03 |
init |
*cough* erlang *cough* |
| 19:05 |
init |
hahahah, kung fury is so good |
| 19:05 |
est31 |
js has the problem that you have to write unit tests |
| 19:05 |
est31 |
thats the advantage of strongly typed languages |
| 19:06 |
zat |
isn't there a JS derived language that can be strong tped? |
| 19:06 |
zat |
I forgot its name. |
| 19:06 |
rom1504 |
you still have to write unit tests in strongly typed languages |
| 19:06 |
rom1504 |
just not the "type checking" ones |
| 19:06 |
init |
unit tests are still a thing |
| 19:06 |
init |
you rule out pretty much 90% of the unit tests you would have to write though |
| 19:07 |
init |
zat: Purescript is the only close to that thing |
| 19:07 |
zat |
init: what is the problem with the callbacks system? |
| 19:07 |
init |
zat: most languages (I know) that still use JS-ish syntax don't try to have sound typesystems |
| 19:07 |
hoodedice |
/back |
| 19:08 |
init |
zat: compared to green threads, they're too verbose, and wouldn't mind some syntatic sugar (do-syntax-like) |
| 19:08 |
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| 19:08 |
init |
verbose, and harder to reason about |
| 19:08 |
init |
it's a nice hack though, using continuations for threading |
| 19:08 |
init |
it's what compilers do :) |
| 19:08 |
hoodedice |
init, I don't see a problem with languages having english words to write code with |
| 19:09 |
init |
hoodedice: english words? no, I am talking about trying to look like english |
| 19:09 |
hoodedice |
apart from the fact that you need to learn english to write code =P |
| 19:09 |
init |
english is too complex and it isn't precise enough |
| 19:09 |
hoodedice |
it can be both |
| 19:09 |
init |
there's no natural language (also, not artificial) that is precise enough to be used for programming |
| 19:09 |
zat |
I don't see the problem with callbacks though |
| 19:10 |
zat |
it does its job fine |
| 19:10 |
Hijiri |
artificial as in a preplanned language? |
| 19:10 |
Hijiri |
like lojban etc |
| 19:10 |
init |
Hijiri: yes |
| 19:11 |
hoodedice |
!g lojban |
| 19:11 |
MinetestBot |
hoodedice: http://mw.lojban.org/ |
| 19:11 |
init |
zat: callbacks are not `wrong`, it's what a scheduler using continuations would use behind the layers, but having it as a main abstraction is pretty hardcore |
| 19:11 |
rom1504 |
but then can human talk non natural languages ? |
| 19:11 |
Calinou |
=== solves most problems of weak typing |
| 19:11 |
rom1504 |
(without checking with a computer) |
| 19:11 |
Calinou |
and weak typing can sometimes solve headaches :p |
| 19:11 |
init |
Calinou: you are kidding, right? |
| 19:11 |
Calinou |
well, most developers use === exclusively |
| 19:11 |
Hijiri |
=== can't tell you what type you need |
| 19:12 |
init |
Calinou: I would prefer JS over Java, but any decent strong & static type system would make most problems with weak typing a thing that gets catched at compile time |
| 19:12 |
rom1504 |
what is "===" ? I guess not wiki markup :p |
| 19:12 |
init |
Calinou: note that if you don't have sum types, a strong type system is painfully anoying |
| 19:12 |
Hijiri |
super equality |
| 19:12 |
Hijiri |
(I don't know its name) |
| 19:12 |
rom1504 |
oh irght |
| 19:12 |
zat |
init: there are threads for nodejs too |
| 19:12 |
init |
rom1504: it's equality that returns false when the parameters aren't of the same type |
| 19:13 |
Calinou |
== means “equals†|
| 19:13 |
Calinou |
=== means “equals and same type†|
| 19:13 |
init |
=== means "we fucked up equality, so we use this new thing" |
| 19:13 |
Calinou |
eg: 2 == "2" is true but 2 === "2" is false |
| 19:13 |
Hijiri |
I think "dynamic typing" is really just one type with a tag |
| 19:13 |
init |
it can be seen that way, weak typing is worst though |
| 19:14 |
init |
and you can be static and weak (C) or dynamic and weak (Javascript) |
| 19:14 |
init |
(if you can call C's type system a type system) |
| 19:15 |
hoodedice |
uh... java uses .equals() to compare actual objects; is that what === does? |
| 19:15 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/okamstudio/godot/wiki/tutorial_gdscript_efficiently |
| 19:15 |
Hijiri |
does weak typing mean you can break the typing abstraction? |
| 19:15 |
zat |
I still see a case of "different to what I like? then it is bad" |
| 19:15 |
Calinou |
read “Pros & Cons of Dynamic Typing†|
| 19:16 |
init |
one of the things JS also does wrong is doing what most languages do pretty badly |
| 19:16 |
rom1504 |
hoodedice: no |
| 19:16 |
hoodedice |
Calinou, the godot shilling is real /s |
| 19:16 |
rom1504 |
well not exactly |
| 19:16 |
init |
x == y doesn't mean x and y are equal, they are the same object |
| 19:16 |
Calinou |
hoodedice, now you are no longer Waiting for Godot! |
| 19:16 |
Hijiri |
I don't know if "less code written" is unique to dynamic typing |
| 19:16 |
Hijiri |
there are programs I could write more succinctly in haskell than ruby |
| 19:16 |
Hijiri |
I am pretty bad at ruby though |
| 19:17 |
* hoodedice |
(reference to some sick in-joke) |
| 19:17 |
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| 19:17 |
hoodedice |
^(hint: I didn't get the joke) |
| 19:17 |
init |
Calinou: you are confusing dynamic with weak typing |
| 19:17 |
zat |
init: plz define equality in objects. |
| 19:17 |
Calinou |
no, I'm not |
| 19:17 |
Hijiri |
compilation is also not really a pro |
| 19:17 |
Hijiri |
You can type-check without compiling |
| 19:17 |
Calinou |
I'm just putting that link in case you are complaining about dynamic typing |
| 19:17 |
init |
zat: there's no sane definition, equality isn't defined for everything |
| 19:17 |
hoodedice |
nice question zat, what exactly makes two objects equal? |
| 19:17 |
Hijiri |
so you can interpret a strong static typed language if you just typecheck it first |
| 19:17 |
init |
Calinou: my main complaint is against weaktyping |
| 19:18 |
hoodedice |
!g two objects equal programming |
| 19:18 |
MinetestBot |
hoodedice: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13387742/compare-two-objects-with-equals-and-operator |
| 19:18 |
init |
> Most code can be written and changed quickly and without hassle. |
| 19:18 |
Hijiri |
also "less code written" isn't a big issue for a language with decent type inference |
| 19:18 |
init |
liar, the more dynamic you go, the less mistakes you can catch at `static` time, and it means refactoring ends being harder |
| 19:18 |
Hijiri |
less clutter |
| 19:18 |
Hijiri |
I mean |
| 19:19 |
init |
yes, I agree that most issues with strong type systems go away when you have type inference, algebraic data types, high order functions, and closures |
| 19:19 |
est31 |
what are algebraic data types? |
| 19:19 |
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needhelp joined #minetest |
| 19:19 |
needhelp |
hi |
| 19:20 |
init |
defining a new type in terms of other types, product types or sum types, product types are just tuples/structs |
| 19:20 |
zat |
I would also like to add, that certain situations are solved differently in a language it doesn't mean it is wrong at all. First define wrong, and why would it apply in that specific language. |
| 19:20 |
init |
sum types are tagged unions |
| 19:21 |
init |
zat: can you give me a few reasons to dislike PHP? |
| 19:21 |
est31 |
zat, so what does "product" and "sum" have properties? |
| 19:21 |
zat |
est31: ????? |
| 19:21 |
est31 |
do you have the distributive property? |
| 19:21 |
init |
yes, they do |
| 19:21 |
Hijiri |
I think algebraic data types are supposed to form a ring or something up to isomorphism? |
| 19:21 |
Hijiri |
I'm not sure |
| 19:21 |
needhelp |
someone has the craft guide mode? |
| 19:21 |
zat |
init: PHP is full of remains of a templating language |
| 19:21 |
init |
Hijiri: no, it's not ring, it's a semiring IIRC |
| 19:22 |
needhelp |
someone has the craft guide mod? |
| 19:22 |
Hijiri |
oh |
| 19:22 |
init |
I am not sure, I haven't checked that pretty well |
| 19:22 |
est31 |
semiring with or without 1 ? |
| 19:22 |
Hijiri |
does addition in rings need to be a group |
| 19:22 |
ElectronLibre |
needhelp, what do you need about the craft guide mod? |
| 19:22 |
init |
est31: with identity |
| 19:22 |
needhelp |
it doesnt work |
| 19:22 |
needhelp |
I installed it |
| 19:22 |
est31 |
and is it commutative? |
| 19:22 |
init |
Hijiri: you need to add exponentials (functions) too |
| 19:22 |
needhelp |
with its dependencies (domb) |
| 19:22 |
ElectronLibre |
Does it crash? |
| 19:22 |
needhelp |
but it doesn't appear |
| 19:22 |
needhelp |
I create a game |
| 19:23 |
init |
est31: the bottom type is the identity of the sum type, the unit type is the identity of the product type |
| 19:23 |
init |
0 and 1 |
| 19:23 |
ElectronLibre |
Don't forget to enable it in the world's settings. |
| 19:23 |
needhelp |
and the craft guide workbench doesn't show |
| 19:23 |
init |
0 * x = 0 also holds |
| 19:23 |
needhelp |
it's enabled ... |
| 19:23 |
needhelp |
e.e |
| 19:23 |
zat |
init: and it lacks a built in way to achieve parallelism. |
| 19:23 |
est31 |
ok so you have identities, but what about x * y == y * x ? |
| 19:23 |
ElectronLibre |
And what about domb? |
| 19:23 |
needhelp |
cgmr is enabled |
| 19:23 |
needhelp |
domb too |
| 19:23 |
est31 |
does that hold or not? |
| 19:23 |
ElectronLibre |
And its dependencies? |
| 19:23 |
est31 |
(always) |
| 19:24 |
needhelp |
cgmr depends on domb |
| 19:24 |
needhelp |
and domb just depends on default |
| 19:24 |
init |
est31: yes, up to isomorphism |
| 19:24 |
ElectronLibre |
Look at the logs at start up and see if there is any error. |
| 19:24 |
init |
zat: have you looked at Erlang? |
| 19:24 |
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| 19:25 |
init |
well, it's more aiming at concurrency than parallelism |
| 19:25 |
zat |
I don't really like it |
| 19:25 |
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| 19:25 |
needhelp |
Undeclared global variable "unified_inventory" accessed at ...etest/mods/technic/technic/machines/register/recipes.lua:54 |
| 19:26 |
ElectronLibre |
That's not a problem. |
| 19:26 |
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| 19:26 |
init |
est31: note that the `arity` of a type, is how many "elements" you have on it |
| 19:26 |
ElectronLibre |
^ By the way, do whoever maintains this, if it's not already done, fix it please. |
| 19:26 |
needhelp |
i will try installed the unified inventory mod... |
| 19:26 |
needhelp |
i will try installing the unified inventory mod... |
| 19:26 |
init |
est31: you can also be recursive, allowing you to define lists, as an example |
| 19:27 |
init |
1 is (), 2 is Bool (true / false), Maybe is (1+) |
| 19:27 |
zat |
init: popularity of a language is the most important factor when considering to invest time in a language |
| 19:27 |
est31 |
init this means that you are a halfgroup |
| 19:27 |
est31 |
closed under + and * |
| 19:28 |
init |
est31: yes, I don't remember the correct name of the algebraic structure |
| 19:28 |
init |
zat: I disagree, but sure :P |
| 19:28 |
zat |
init: what is the use of mastering a language so little used, I won't have any contributors |
| 19:28 |
est31 |
and "is a ring up to isomorphism" means its automatically a ring |
| 19:28 |
Hijiri |
I would say quality of the community is more important than the popularity |
| 19:29 |
est31 |
but doesnt mean its commutative |
| 19:29 |
init |
Hijiri: but quantity goes over quality |
| 19:29 |
Hijiri |
there is probably some function on popularity and quality that gives optimalness values |
| 19:29 |
init |
zat: there's no need to master a language |
| 19:30 |
zat |
init: then say invest time |
| 19:30 |
zat |
time is gold! |
| 19:30 |
init |
zat: it'll give you better tools for your current projects! |
| 19:30 |
init |
s/better/more |
| 19:30 |
zat |
time is money |
| 19:30 |
zat |
http://www.probabilityof.com/ICON/MATH.jpg |
| 19:31 |
init |
you can't miss what you don't know |
| 19:31 |
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| 19:31 |
zat |
with that you can argue in favor of anything |
| 19:32 |
est31 |
so its algebraically closed? |
| 19:32 |
Krock |
zat, amazing. |
| 19:32 |
init |
est31: yes, AFAIK |
| 19:32 |
est31 |
nice, but then women can have imaginary parts |
| 19:32 |
init |
lol |
| 19:32 |
init |
it's the absolute value of problems |
| 19:32 |
est31 |
at least in C |
| 19:32 |
init |
zat: learn the mathematics concepts behind those languages, then |
| 19:33 |
init |
zat: it won't programming after all |
| 19:33 |
zat |
I don't see the urgency of certain people to force others do what they like |
| 19:33 |
zat |
:P |
| 19:33 |
est31 |
there algebraically closed rings too which arent isomorpphic to C |
| 19:33 |
est31 |
like the zero ring :) |
| 19:45 |
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init |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS5P_LAqiVg it's amazing |
| 19:57 |
Kenney |
watched that twice today, once at home and once at the office |
| 19:57 |
Kenney |
amazing |
| 20:00 |
init |
I am gonna watch it with family later |
| 20:00 |
Kenney |
Oh dear |
| 20:00 |
init |
ikr |
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| 20:01 |
hoodedice |
... |
| 20:02 |
* hoodedice |
doesn't get the hype about that movie |
| 20:02 |
Kenney |
It's just so dang over the top |
| 20:02 |
Kenney |
and the VHS effects do bring back some memories |
| 20:02 |
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| 20:02 |
hoodedice |
>_> |
| 20:02 |
catninja |
and it is from my city! |
| 20:03 |
hoodedice |
as a 90s kid, no memories are being brought back |
| 20:03 |
hoodedice |
apart from maybe my parent's marriage vhs... |
| 20:03 |
hoodedice |
but that didn't have so much... pink |
| 20:03 |
init |
I am a 90s kid, I still love the movie |
| 20:03 |
Kenney |
How far into 90s? |
| 20:03 |
Kenney |
I'm from 1990 and boy did I watch some VHS tapes |
| 20:03 |
hoodedice |
born in '95... |
| 20:04 |
Kenney |
Ah right |
| 20:04 |
hoodedice |
I did watch some vhs when I was younger, but mostly meh about it |
| 20:04 |
hoodedice |
like, I don't even remember the CD age |
| 20:04 |
Kenney |
I had this one tape which had 1 episode of (what I thought was) Transformers on it, watched it over and over and over |
| 20:04 |
hoodedice |
I do distinctly remember the age of floppies tho |
| 20:04 |
Kenney |
later on I discovered it was actually GoBots |
| 20:04 |
Kenney |
it was missing the title sequence so I had no idea |
| 20:05 |
hoodedice |
*suddenly* |
| 20:06 |
* hoodedice |
flashbacks into when I was an 8 year old console peasant, gaming on a PSOne |
| 20:06 |
hoodedice |
*he |
| 20:08 |
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| 20:08 |
init |
there are lots of funny puns on the movie |
| 20:08 |
Kenney |
TANK YOU |
| 20:08 |
init |
and also funny obvious references |
| 20:08 |
init |
Hoff 9000 |
| 20:08 |
init |
not opening the doors of the car.. lol |
| 20:09 |
hoodedice |
hmm well, since it so all over the internets I'll have to watch it |
| 20:10 |
init |
I want a e = mc^2 converter now |
| 20:10 |
init |
written in Java apparently |
| 20:11 |
init |
before Java was a thing, that explains the time machine |
| 20:11 |
Kenney |
Glad the movie is 30 minutes though, shouldn't have lasted longer |
| 20:11 |
init |
yeah, I think it's perfect |
| 20:11 |
init |
long enough to have lots of funny things |
| 20:11 |
init |
but not too long to be boring |
| 20:14 |
init |
I want a laser raptor as pet now |
| 20:15 |
Kenney |
my girlfriend absolutely hated the movie btw |
| 20:15 |
Kenney |
well my ex-girlfriend now, if you know what I mean |
| 20:15 |
init |
lol |
| 20:16 |
Kenney |
hah nah, she's just more intro realistic stuff - none of the over the top madness |
| 20:16 |
Kenney |
although she did like Mad Max |
| 20:16 |
Kenney |
I have no clue man, women... |
| 20:16 |
init |
yeah, the madness is half the fun :P |
| 20:16 |
Kenney |
Mad Max was absolutely great though |
| 20:16 |
Kenney |
did you see it? |
| 20:17 |
init |
I don't know the english name of most movies I watched |
| 20:17 |
init |
lemme check |
| 20:17 |
init |
oh, no :/ |
| 20:18 |
init |
I think I have it downloaded though |
| 20:18 |
Kenney |
It's been in cinemas for a week or two, don't think you can download it yet |
| 20:18 |
Kenney |
the new one atleast |
| 20:18 |
Kenney |
Fury Road |
| 20:18 |
hoodedice |
I liked Video Game High School though |
| 20:18 |
init |
oh, I am not talking about the last one |
| 20:19 |
Kenney |
oh no VGHS was horrible |
| 20:19 |
hoodedice |
... |
| 20:20 |
Kenney |
I've seen two episodes I believe, couldn't stand it anymore, too much cringe |
| 20:20 |
catninja |
http://38.media.tumblr.com/0d5f4f4ece6f4d4bf6d40f555c2caa2a/tumblr_norf3cdeI11s2yegdo1_400.gif |
| 20:20 |
catninja |
me coding |
| 20:20 |
hoodedice |
cringe is okay-ish |
| 20:21 |
hoodedice |
me coding http://p.pomf.se/7728 |
| 20:21 |
catninja |
ok more like this |
| 20:21 |
catninja |
http://41.media.tumblr.com/26bab33549dac15b16af0e7531a08577/tumblr_noetxie4GV1qzeo2zo1_500.jpg |
| 20:22 |
hoodedice |
out of memory, eh? |
| 20:22 |
hoodedice |
or wrong address =P |
| 20:22 |
catninja |
no very much correct |
| 20:23 |
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catninja |
I'm so tired of coding today but my dog is not in a cuddly mode |
| 20:25 |
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| 20:28 |
hoodedice |
> dog |
| 20:28 |
hoodedice |
> cuddly |
| 20:28 |
catninja |
maybe I can trick him |
| 20:28 |
hoodedice |
no |
| 20:29 |
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| 20:29 |
catninja |
hoodedice: time to get some chikn then. |
| 20:30 |
hoodedice |
chicken is very cuddly |
| 20:30 |
hoodedice |
VERY |
| 20:31 |
hoodedice |
so are bunnies https://d1u1p2xjjiahg3.cloudfront.net/4fdd6621-26d5-4991-9363-c8e8f559941d.jpg |
| 20:31 |
hoodedice |
(NSFW- GORE ^) |
| 20:31 |
catninja |
doge was possible to bribe |
| 20:32 |
catninja |
chickens are cuddly |
| 20:32 |
ElectronLibre |
Oh, this is from "The Holy Grail". |
| 20:32 |
ElectronLibre |
This bunny was very cuddly indeed. |
| 20:33 |
Kenney |
Should watch that someday |
| 20:34 |
ElectronLibre |
It is funny, but a bit silly. |
| 20:35 |
hoodedice |
someone told me "The Princess Bride" was a comedy |
| 20:35 |
hoodedice |
I laughed once. |
| 20:35 |
hoodedice |
like this "heh" |
| 20:35 |
ElectronLibre |
Well, in fact, not just a bit. |
| 20:35 |
Kenney |
I've watched Life of Brian which was okay, didn't really enjoy it so I'm a bit worried The Holy Grail is on the same level |
| 20:35 |
Kenney |
The Princess Bride is really great though |
| 20:35 |
Kenney |
Didn't find it very humerous, but it was a fun watch |
| 20:36 |
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| 20:39 |
Kenney |
btw ElectronLibre, you got me thinking a bit and I will release the first version of Voxus when the terrain generation is in and done - so a lot earlier |
| 20:40 |
hoodedice |
= |
| 20:40 |
hoodedice |
) |
| 20:40 |
ElectronLibre |
Do what you want to do, it's your project. |
| 20:41 |
Kenney |
true, but it gives users a sneak peak and they can already hunch over the code to improve the world generation |
| 20:41 |
Kenney |
while I get on with further features |
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dakotawolfy |
Uhm |
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JadenWolf |
Mtz-basic, players |
| 23:05 |
YvesLevier |
Having a question (Technic) |
| 23:11 |
YvesLevier |
What is the right way to ask a technical question? |
| 23:11 |
YvesLevier |
*ask for |
| 23:16 |
NekoGloop |
with a keyboard |
| 23:25 |
Wayward_Tab |
Hehe |
| 23:27 |
NekoGloop |
Wayward_Tab: I find your name funny because it can be typed as "Wayward_" then pressing Tab, because IRC ^^ |
| 23:27 |
Wayward_Tab |
Haha, I never thought of it that way :P |
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| 23:28 |
VanessaE |
hell, W<tab> is enough even :) |
| 23:29 |
Wayward_Tab |
Lol |
| 23:29 |
NekoGloop |
yeah but I can type wayward_ then press Tab and it literally writes Tab |
| 23:30 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 23:31 |
NekoGloop |
computer humor yay |
| 23:31 |
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| 23:56 |
Wayward_Tab |
There's a certain satisfaction in finally getting a Live USB to boot |
| 23:57 |
Wayward_Tab |
Especially when it doubles as your new SSD |
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